NCGA Rules Situations
David Caramello from Lindale Men’s Club in Sacramento California asked, “Can unattended clubs or an unattended flagstick lying on the green be removed from the path of a ball after ball has been struck and is in motion?
You make the call: Read Rule 24-1 and pay particular attention to the exceptions mentioned in the paragraph that begins, “When a ball is in motion…” and read Decision 1-2/3.
See Below for the Answer
Answer
An unattended flagstick may not be removed in order to keep a ball from striking it without the person lifting it receiving a loss of hole in match play or two stroke penalty in stroke play.
An attended flagstick or equipment of the players is a different situation. An attended flagstick (meaning a person is standing within an arms-length of the flagstick, whether touching it or not, before the ball is in motion) and equipment of the players may be removed after a ball is in motion with no one receiving a penalty.
The attended flagstick and equipment of the players are the exceptions to what may be moved when a ball is in motion.
On October 31 the United States Golf Association announced the rules changes for 2008. One change is that starting on January 1, 2008, a flagstick that has been removed may be moved while a ball is in motion. The new wording in Rule 24-1 is:
“When a ball is in motion, an obstruction that might influence the movement of the ball, other than equipment of any player or the flagstick when attended, removed or held up, must not be moved.”
October 31st, 2007 at 1:50 pmPardon but I am confused as to what the new verbiage means that is in fact different from the earlier rule. To me it still seems to say that the flagstick, if laid on the green more than an arms length away from a would-be attendant, can not be moved after the putt is struck.Is there a subtlety that I am missing?
November 2nd, 2007 at 8:35 amIf a ball comes to rest nest to a red hazard stake and the ball is not in the hazard but the over growth from the hazard interferees with your swing. Do you get a one club relief or do you play the ball as it lies? I had a guy in a tournament say he get relief since his ball was not in the hazard and his the bushs from the hazard were in his swing path. the pro shop confrimed he was right. I’m not to sure about the ruling.
Thanks,
Bob
November 2nd, 2007 at 8:41 amSorry for some spelling errors was typing fast.
November 2nd, 2007 at 8:42 amDear Bill,
On January 1, 2008 the Rules of Golf will change allowing any player to pick up either a flagstick or clubs that are lying on the ground which he believes might be struck by a ball that is in motion without being penalzied.
Attended in regards to a flagstick means in the hole and withing arms reach of the person “attending” it, but the extension of that concept means that the person attending is deemed to be attending until the ball comes to rest. That means that after a stroke, the person attending the flagstick may remove it and place it on the ground, and then realizing the ball may strick it, may pick it up without the player incurring a penalty.
November 2nd, 2007 at 9:41 amDear Bob, When a ball in play lies “through the green” the player must play the ball as it lies or declare it unplayalbe and proceed under on of the options of Rule 28 with a one stroke penalty.
Grasses, trees and bushes are common on a golf course and the player must deal with them. It does not matter whether the bushes are in the hazard and the ball is outside. The same basic rule of golf applies - play the ball as it lies and the course as you find it.
November 2nd, 2007 at 9:49 amGreat idea for the website!
December 12th, 2007 at 1:43 pmFurther to Bob Rai’s question on November 2nd, 2007 at 8:41 am:
December 17th, 2007 at 2:03 am-the player was most likely referring to relief from grass from an environmental area(green tipped red stakes) affecting the swing path..which is free relief..
Dear Chris,
While there was nothing in Bob’s question regarding environmentally sensitive areas, you are correct that if this were a hazard with green tipped stakes, the player would be required to take relief without penalty from the grasses that were in the hazard but overhanging the area of through the green if he had interfernce with lie of the ball, stance or area of intended swing.
Gail
December 17th, 2007 at 10:37 amGail,
On the flag stick, you state: allowing any player to pick up either a flagstick or clubs that are lying on the ground which he believes might be struck by a ball that is in motion without being penalzied.
But then you refer to only the person attending the flagstick is allowed to move the pin, is it any player can move a club, but only the attendee can move the flagstick?
tx caleb
December 29th, 2007 at 1:19 pmGail,
On the flagstick you stated:allowing any player to pick up either a flagstick or clubs that are lying on the ground which he believes might be struck by a ball that is in motion without being penalzied.
But then you refer to only the attendee of the flagstick, is it any player can move a club and only the attendee can move the flagstick?
tx caleb
December 29th, 2007 at 1:21 pmGail:
The new rule regarding the flagstick and equipment is very confusing.
December 29th, 2007 at 6:11 pmIs The bottom line meaning a flagstick or equipment may be moved
by the “person attending” both may move them, but no one else can??
It seems odd that I can leave my clubs 2-3 ft beyond the hole and If I putt past the hole the clubs will help me by stopping the ball.
Seems contrary to the “golden rule”, e.g. do not influence the path
of the ball?? I’m very confused by this new rule.
Caleb
January 9th, 2008 at 3:24 amDecision 17-1/6 of 2008 Decisions Book states; “There is no penalty. A flagstick that is attended, removed or held up may be moved by anyone even if doing so could influence the movement of a ball in motion (Rule 24-1)
Jose:
Look a little closer at 17-1 through 17-3.
17-1 pertaines to the flagstick attended, if the flagstick is “not attended”, before a player makes a stroke, it must not be attended,removed or held up during the stroke or while the player’s ball is in motion if so doing might influence the movement of the ball.
This is a 2 stroke penalty in stroke play.
Ruel 17-3 states that a player’s ball must not strike:
a the flagstick when attended, removed or held up
b. the person attending etc
c. the flagstick in the hole, unattended, when the stroke has been made
from the putting green. There are exceptions, but he committee in a
tournament would have the final say.
very confusing, but I believe the botton line is in “attending and unattended”. Just make sure YOUR ball will never hit any type of
January 10th, 2008 at 6:56 pmflagstick or any other equipment lying on the green with the ball in motion with a chance of striking same.