Comments on: 2008 Rules Changes are Player Friendly http://www.ncga.org/2008/02/15/2008-rules-changes-are-player-friendly/ Northern California Golf Association Thu, 20 Nov 2008 12:08:35 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.6.3 By: Jim Cowan http://www.ncga.org/2008/02/15/2008-rules-changes-are-player-friendly/#comment-1227 Jim Cowan Tue, 11 Nov 2008 21:29:33 +0000 http://www.ncga.org/2008/02/15/2008-rules-changes-are-player-friendly/#comment-1227 Steve Nielsen, thank you for your comment. It is interesting how your comments contrast with those of John McEnnry since he felt things were fine in stroke play with a low playing against a high, but not in match play. All I can tell you is that if you played against the same high handicapper 100 times, you would come out on top more often than not due to the bonus for excellence. If you compete against an entire field of high handicappers, however, it doesn't surprise me that you might come out on the short end. High handicappers do not play to their handicap with any greater frequency than lows, but on any given day, they have the ability to go lower. Many of our tournaments have handicap flights for this specific reason. Thanks again - Jim Cowan Steve Nielsen, thank you for your comment. It is interesting how your comments contrast with those of John McEnnry since he felt things were fine in stroke play with a low playing against a high, but not in match play. All I can tell you is that if you played against the same high handicapper 100 times, you would come out on top more often than not due to the bonus for excellence. If you compete against an entire field of high handicappers, however, it doesn’t surprise me that you might come out on the short end. High handicappers do not play to their handicap with any greater frequency than lows, but on any given day, they have the ability to go lower. Many of our tournaments have handicap flights for this specific reason. Thanks again - Jim Cowan

]]> By: steve nielsen http://www.ncga.org/2008/02/15/2008-rules-changes-are-player-friendly/#comment-1164 steve nielsen Sat, 25 Oct 2008 16:53:37 +0000 http://www.ncga.org/2008/02/15/2008-rules-changes-are-player-friendly/#comment-1164 i would like to respond to Jim Cowan's response that in a match play the lower handicap person has the slight advantage...the "bonus for excellence." Unfortunately this is not the case in stroke play. For two straight years now i have participated in a ncga qualifying tournaments where there were no brackets. This one particular tourney had 45 golfers ranging from a 6-36 in handicap. At this course my cap was a 10. Based on many qualifying tournaments the players who qualify generally advance by their net scores being in the low to mid 60's. So for me i would have to shoot five strokes under my cap, which is just my potential not what i am expected to shoot every round, and which the ncga admits that tourney play to be harder to actually shooting your cap. As stated by the ncga it is 276/1 that i shoot this score.....in general, not in a tourney setting. a 30 and above cap shooter to score 5 strokes under par is only 35/1. This field is highly slanted towards rewarding the higher cap player. Why do i work at my game so i 30 handicap advances in a qualifier by shooting a 95 when i have to shoot a 75 just to keep up? After two years in a row i am ready to never enter another ncga qualifing tournament. i would like to respond to Jim Cowan’s response that in a match play the lower handicap person has the slight advantage…the “bonus for excellence.” Unfortunately this is not the case in stroke play. For two straight years now i have participated in a ncga qualifying tournaments where there were no brackets. This one particular tourney had 45 golfers ranging from a 6-36 in handicap. At this course my cap was a 10. Based on many qualifying tournaments the players who qualify generally advance by their net scores being in the low to mid 60’s. So for me i would have to shoot five strokes under my cap, which is just my potential not what i am expected to shoot every round, and which the ncga admits that tourney play to be harder to actually shooting your cap. As stated by the ncga it is 276/1 that i shoot this score…..in general, not in a tourney setting. a 30 and above cap shooter to score 5 strokes under par is only 35/1. This field is highly slanted towards rewarding the higher cap player. Why do i work at my game so i 30 handicap advances in a qualifier by shooting a 95 when i have to shoot a 75 just to keep up? After two years in a row i am ready to never enter another ncga qualifing tournament.

]]> By: Jim Cowan http://www.ncga.org/2008/02/15/2008-rules-changes-are-player-friendly/#comment-1162 Jim Cowan Thu, 23 Oct 2008 22:59:51 +0000 http://www.ncga.org/2008/02/15/2008-rules-changes-are-player-friendly/#comment-1162 Scott Runde, thank you for your comment. ESC stands for Equitable Stroke Control. ESC establishes a maximum hole score that a golfer can record for handicapping purposes based upon their Course Handicap. Single digit handicappers are limited to a maximum hole score of a double bogey. Golfers with Course Handicaps of 10-19 are limited to a maximum hole score of 7; 20-29 have a limit of 8, etc. So if you are a 20-29 and record an 11 on a hole, you must reduce that score to an 8 before you turn around and post it for handicap purposes. The intent of ESC is to avoid having a couple of uncharacterically bad holes skew a golfer's score and ultimately their handicap. Thanks again - Jim Cowan. Scott Runde, thank you for your comment. ESC stands for Equitable Stroke Control. ESC establishes a maximum hole score that a golfer can record for handicapping purposes based upon their Course Handicap. Single digit handicappers are limited to a maximum hole score of a double bogey. Golfers with Course Handicaps of 10-19 are limited to a maximum hole score of 7; 20-29 have a limit of 8, etc. So if you are a 20-29 and record an 11 on a hole, you must reduce that score to an 8 before you turn around and post it for handicap purposes. The intent of ESC is to avoid having a couple of uncharacterically bad holes skew a golfer’s score and ultimately their handicap. Thanks again - Jim Cowan.

]]> By: Scott Runde http://www.ncga.org/2008/02/15/2008-rules-changes-are-player-friendly/#comment-1160 Scott Runde Wed, 22 Oct 2008 23:47:12 +0000 http://www.ncga.org/2008/02/15/2008-rules-changes-are-player-friendly/#comment-1160 To Jim Cowan, In your response to John McEnery, what is ESC? To Jim Cowan,

In your response to John McEnery, what is ESC?

]]> By: Jim Cowan http://www.ncga.org/2008/02/15/2008-rules-changes-are-player-friendly/#comment-1103 Jim Cowan Tue, 30 Sep 2008 16:28:20 +0000 http://www.ncga.org/2008/02/15/2008-rules-changes-are-player-friendly/#comment-1103 John McEnery - Thank you for your comment. Clearly 8 is a common hole score for the golfers you are describing, so why wouldn't they be permitted to post a score that they record on a regular basis? As to match play, you will be surprised to learn that the USGA Handicap System actually awards a slight advantage to the low handicapper. Because handicaps are based, basically, on 96% of the difference between our adjusted scores and the Course Ratings (and not 100%), the low handicapper should enjoy an ever-so-slight advantage in a head-to-head match. This advantage is known as the Bonus for Excellence and serves as an incentive to lower your handicap. I'm sure it is frustrating seeing a 20+ score 5 or 6 pars in a match, but if they are posting ESC adjusted scores in the high 90's/low 100's, this means they are playing the remaining 12 holes in 25-30 over par. I like your chances on those 12 holes. Thanks again - Jim Cowan. John McEnery - Thank you for your comment. Clearly 8 is a common hole score for the golfers you are describing, so why wouldn’t they be permitted to post a score that they record on a regular basis? As to match play, you will be surprised to learn that the USGA Handicap System actually awards a slight advantage to the low handicapper. Because handicaps are based, basically, on 96% of the difference between our adjusted scores and the Course Ratings (and not 100%), the low handicapper should enjoy an ever-so-slight advantage in a head-to-head match. This advantage is known as the Bonus for Excellence and serves as an incentive to lower your handicap. I’m sure it is frustrating seeing a 20+ score 5 or 6 pars in a match, but if they are posting ESC adjusted scores in the high 90’s/low 100’s, this means they are playing the remaining 12 holes in 25-30 over par. I like your chances on those 12 holes. Thanks again - Jim Cowan.

]]> By: Gail Rogers http://www.ncga.org/2008/02/15/2008-rules-changes-are-player-friendly/#comment-1097 Gail Rogers Wed, 24 Sep 2008 14:20:01 +0000 http://www.ncga.org/2008/02/15/2008-rules-changes-are-player-friendly/#comment-1097 HI Ian, If you want to keep your friend, my advice is do not give advice unless asked! Seriously, casual golf is just that - a fun round with a friend. If you have the relationship where you chat about the rules, your putting stroke, etc. go ahead and chat. Know the difference though and realize when you are in competition, you run the risk of being penalized for giving advice because that is what you do on a daily basis. Personally, I play by the rules all the time, take proper drops, analize nearest point of releif in a situation that is not straight forward, dorp a ball at shoulder height and arms length, etc. because when I play competitive golf it is just second nature. Good habits are good habits. No matter what you do - have fun playing golf! Gail HI Ian,

If you want to keep your friend, my advice is do not give advice unless asked!

Seriously, casual golf is just that - a fun round with a friend. If you have the relationship where you chat about the rules, your putting stroke, etc. go ahead and chat. Know the difference though and realize when you are in competition, you run the risk of being penalized for giving advice because that is what you do on a daily basis.

Personally, I play by the rules all the time, take proper drops, analize nearest point of releif in a situation that is not straight forward, dorp a ball at shoulder height and arms length, etc. because when I play competitive golf it is just second nature. Good habits are good habits.

No matter what you do - have fun playing golf!

Gail

]]> By: Ian L. http://www.ncga.org/2008/02/15/2008-rules-changes-are-player-friendly/#comment-1096 Ian L. Wed, 24 Sep 2008 02:23:44 +0000 http://www.ncga.org/2008/02/15/2008-rules-changes-are-player-friendly/#comment-1096 An off-topic question: I haven't found anything in the rules regarding a player who is not your partner, opponent, OR fellow competitor. If you are playing a casual round with a friend, for example, can you give him/her advice? Thanks again. An off-topic question: I haven’t found anything in the rules regarding a player who is not your partner, opponent, OR fellow competitor. If you are playing a casual round with a friend, for example, can you give him/her advice?

Thanks again.

]]> By: John McEnery http://www.ncga.org/2008/02/15/2008-rules-changes-are-player-friendly/#comment-1095 John McEnery Mon, 22 Sep 2008 20:41:29 +0000 http://www.ncga.org/2008/02/15/2008-rules-changes-are-player-friendly/#comment-1095 Something for you to ponder. I play with guys who have handicaps in 20's and they shot in high 90's or low onehundreds. The question is if they can continue to take eights their handicaps will never go down but they constantly make 5 or 6 pars a round with an occasional birdie. They also make 3 or 4 eights with a couple of 7's thrown in. Most games played are match play situatons and it just doesn't seem right. If it were storke play it would be different. Is there anything that can make match play fairer with those high handicaps? Have there been other questions regarding this problem? John Something for you to ponder. I play with guys who have handicaps in 20’s and they shot in high 90’s or low onehundreds. The question is if they can continue to take eights their handicaps will never go down but they constantly make 5 or 6 pars a round with an occasional birdie. They also make 3 or 4 eights with a couple of 7’s thrown in. Most games played are match play situatons and it just doesn’t seem right. If it were storke play it would be different. Is there anything that can make match play fairer with those high handicaps? Have there been other questions regarding this problem?

John

]]> By: Gail Rogers http://www.ncga.org/2008/02/15/2008-rules-changes-are-player-friendly/#comment-1001 Gail Rogers Thu, 31 Jul 2008 16:58:39 +0000 http://www.ncga.org/2008/02/15/2008-rules-changes-are-player-friendly/#comment-1001 Hi Ian, Question #1: Rule 17-2 is unauthorized attendance and it is a penalty to remove or rush over and remove the flagstick or to attend it without the player knowing you are doing it. Example: player well below the level of the green who cannot see the flagstick, and another player walks over and attends, removes the flagstick without communicating this action. A player is deemed to have authorized the attendance of the flagstick is he can see another person either touching the flagstick or standing within an arms length of it prior to him making his stroke. See Note 2 to Rule 17-1. Gail Hi Ian,

Question #1: Rule 17-2 is unauthorized attendance and it is a penalty to remove or rush over and remove the flagstick or to attend it without the player knowing you are doing it. Example: player well below the level of the green who cannot see the flagstick, and another player walks over and attends, removes the flagstick without communicating this action.

A player is deemed to have authorized the attendance of the flagstick is he can see another person either touching the flagstick or standing within an arms length of it prior to him making his stroke. See Note 2 to Rule 17-1.

Gail

]]> By: Ian http://www.ncga.org/2008/02/15/2008-rules-changes-are-player-friendly/#comment-999 Ian Thu, 31 Jul 2008 16:20:46 +0000 http://www.ncga.org/2008/02/15/2008-rules-changes-are-player-friendly/#comment-999 Is it still against the rules to remove the flagstick while the ball is in motion if the player has not requested to have the flag attended? Also, I once heard that it is assumed the player wants the flag attended if an appropriate person is holding the flagstick before he addresses the ball. Is this correct? Thanks again, Ian Is it still against the rules to remove the flagstick while the ball is in motion if the player has not requested to have the flag attended?

Also, I once heard that it is assumed the player wants the flag attended if an appropriate person is holding the flagstick before he addresses the ball. Is this correct?

Thanks again,
Ian

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