A gopher hole is a hole made by a burrowing animal and as such is an abnormal ground condition from which you get free relief under Rule 25. If your ball can be retrieved, you must do so and drop it within one club-length of the nearest point of relief, no nearer the hole. If the ball can not be retrieved, you may drop another ball instead.
January 2nd, 2009 at 8:26 pm
Gregor writes:
On foggy morning last month, I blocked a tee shot right sending it into the a water hazard. Because of the fog I could not see the ball splash and used the line of the flight off the tee to estimate where the ball entered the hazard. My competitors in the foursome argued it was a lost ball as I did not see it enter the hazard and did not see it splash. Clearly, I had “virtual certainty” that it had, but my playing partners obviously did not. Who is correct? Can you define more precisely “knowledge” and virtual certainty? Thank you.
Decision 26-1/1 discusses the meaning of “Known or Virtually Certain.” The following is from that decision:
“A player may not assume that his ball is in a water hazard simply because there is a possibility that his ball may be in the hazard. If it is not known that the ball is in the water hazard, in order for the player to proceed under Rule 26-1, there must be almost no doubt that the ball is in the hazard. Otherwise, a ball that cannot be found must be considered lost outside the hazard and the player must proceed under Rule 27-1.
All available evidence must be taken into account in determining whether knowledge or virtual certainty exists, including any testimony and the physical conditions in the area around the water hazard. For example, if a water hazard is surrounded by fairway on which a ball could hardly be lost, there exists a greater certainty that the ball is in the hazard than there would be if there were deep rough in the area.”
January 5th, 2009 at 9:16 am
Dan writes:
On a course we play frequently there are areas where burrowing animals have taken up residence. Sometimes there may be 10-20 holes in an area otherwise devoid of grass or any other hiding place for a golf ball. If a ball ends up in such an area and is not found, it is in a hole. In order to use Rule 25.1.c must the player know which single hole the ball dove into or can the player make an educated choice or must the player proceed under Rule 27?
Dan,
If it is known or virtually certain that the ball is lost in one of the burrowing animal holes, you can use Rule 25-1.c. If the burrowing animal holes are close together, the club should probably make the entire area Ground Under Repair so that you could drop outside it.
We checked with the USGA regarding what you should do if the area is not marked. The proper way to take relief depends on the circumstances. If the area is an open field or bare dirt, you should use the hole that is farthest from the hole in determining your relief. If the area is such that there are some places where a player would have an open shot to the green while others would only allow a chip out to the fairway, the player should find an area which was neither the most, nor the least, favorable of the various areas where it was equally possible that the ball originally lay. So, you should find a hole that gives you a shot somewhere near the average of the possible shots and take relief from it. This is consistent with Decision 18-1/5 for a ball that was taken by an outside agency from an unknown spot.
January 5th, 2009 at 12:08 pm
lowell cooke writes:
PLAYER A and B ARE IN A STROKE PLAY COMPETITION. ON THE 18TH HOLE BOTH HIT TEE SHOTS. THEN A ,TO TEST a CLUB BELONGING TO B HITS B’S DRIVER NEVER INTENDING TO DO OTHER THAN HIT A PRACTICE SHOT WITH B’S CLUB .IS THIS A BREACH OF 4-4a ,4-4c OR BOTH OR NO BREACH ? IF BREACH IS B DISQUALIFIED ?
IS B ALLOWED TO USE CLUB IN SUBSEQUENT PLAY OF HOLE ?
Since it was not Player A’s intention to put a ball into play, but merely to hit a practice shot with B’s club, he would be penalized 2 strokes for a violation of Rule 7-2 (Practice during Round) as this type of practice is not allowed. Decision 4-4a/13 says that the borrowing of a club does not breach Rule 4-4a if it was not used to make a stroke that counted in the player’s score. Player B is not penalized in any way and could subsequently use the club.
January 9th, 2009 at 9:22 am
Elliott Say writes:
Hi,player A hit a drive that comes to rest near a bunker. Upon getting closer to the ball, player a is upset that the ball is in the rough after such a nice drive. He slams his club into the ground 5 feet awar from the ball and the ball rolls into the bunker.
Does he get to replace the ball or play it from the bunker.
The answer to your question lies in the question of what caused the ball to roll into the bunker. If the facts are such that the player caused the ball to move, he would replace it with a one stroke penalty under Rule 18-2a. If he didn’t cause it to move and no other outside agency did, he would play it from the bunker with no penalty. In the instance you describe, I believe he caused it to move so the ball would need to be replaced and he would be penalized. If he failed to replace it, the penalty would be 2 strokes in stroke play or loss of hole in match play.
January 9th, 2009 at 3:55 pm
C.G. writes:
I hit a shot to the green from a 100 yards that landed short into a bunker. Before I advance to the ball, I decide to declare the ball unplayable (Rule 28-a & one-stroke penalty) because I know it will take me several strokes to get out of the bunker & I’d rather re-hit from where I last played. In the interest of pace of play, may I drop another ball on the spot last played versus walking all the way to the bunker to retrieve the ball and walk all the way back to the spot last played?
When you choose to use the Stroke and Distance option under any rule (Water Hazard, Lost Ball /Ball OB or Unplayable), you may immediately drop another ball and play it. You do not need to retrieve or even identify your ball. If you chose to use any other option under the unplayable ball rule, you would have to find and identify your ball, but you could drop another ball. Decision 28/1 covers this.
January 9th, 2009 at 4:08 pm
C.G. writes:
Regarding posting unfinished rounds, in your Dec 7 1:36PM response you said “For the purpose of posting, you should determine the number of handicap strokes you would receive on each of the unplayed holes and add that to par for those holes.” How do I determine the “handicap strokes”? Is there a chart that gives the hole-by-hole handicap strokes for my index?
Every scorecard has a row on it labeled Handicap (some have Men’s and Women’s). Each hole is allocated a handicap number, 1 through 18. The hole with the 1 is the #1 handicap hole, the 2 is the #2 hole etc. A player who is a 1 handicap would get a stroke on the #1 handicap hole. If you were to look at the score card for the NCGA’s Poppy Hills course, you would see that the 15th hole is the #14 handicap, the 16th is #2, the 17th is #18 and the 18th hole is #12. Therefore if a 5 handicap player quit playing after the 14th hole, he would calculate his score for posting by giving himself pars for holes 15, 17 and 18 and a bogey for 16. A 13 handicap would get pars on 15 and 17 and bogies on 16 and 18 and a 30 handicap would get bogies on 15 and 17 and double bogies on 16 and 18. There are many rules covered in the USGA’s Handicap manual on how to allocate these strokes.
January 12th, 2009 at 9:17 am
Dan writes:
A player hits his ball into a water hazard and decides to drop under option 26-1.b. When he drops the ball it rolls more than 2 club lengths away so he picks up the ball for a re-drop under 20-2.c.(vi). Before he re-drops may he move to a different spot (forward or back) along the line established under 26-1.b?
January 13th, 2009 at 10:46 am
John Vander Borght writes:
Dan,
Yes, he can. Decision 20-2c/5 tells us that a player who is required to re-drop cannot change his option, but he can certainly choose another point that meets the option he first selected. If not, Rule 20-2c would need to state that the second drop must be as near as possible to the first drop, which it doesn’t.
Hint for those attending an NCGA Rules Workshop in 2009, remember this answer.
January 13th, 2009 at 11:00 am
Hank Stevens writes:
A tournament was played last weekend where our NCGA club started on the back nine and finished on the front nine of the course. There were two players with the same net score. The rules of golf state that, “ties shall be decided over the last nine, last six, last three, or last hole.” Does that mean the last nine holes played or last nine holes on the course scorecard? I say it is about the last nine holes played. Am I right?
January 14th, 2009 at 2:06 pm
John Vander Borght writes:
Hank,
Typically it would mean holes 10-18 on the scorecard. I’ve never heard of it being anything else. It would be a good idea for those running the tournament to specify what they mean just to avoid confusion, but without anything else being said, that is how I would interpret it. You really cannot use the last nine holes played as they can be vastly different. As an example, San Jose Country Club is a par 33 on the front 9 and par 37 on the back 9. Or if it was a shotgun start, everyone would have a different set of 9 holes.
January 14th, 2009 at 2:12 pm
Lance Los writes:
Tee shot lands in fairway bunker. When player hits second shot, the ball drives into the wall of the bunker just above the edge of the sand and is lost in the dense dirt under the rough.
Where would the drop be taken since the ball is no longer in the vertical plane of the bunker’s wall, but it is now under the rough? Is the ball to be dropped in the bunker or on the rough?
January 14th, 2009 at 11:13 pm
John Vander Borght writes:
Lance,
First, since you said the ball is lost in the dense dirt, the ball is lost and you would have to proceed under stroke and distance by dropping at the point in the bunker where you last played from. Assuming you could find the ball and wanted to declare it unplayable, the following applies.
The definition of “bunker” says that a wall or lip of the bunker not covered with grass is a part of the bunker. Therefore the ball entered the ground in the bunker.
Decision 13/4 says that a ball is considered to be in the bunker if it entered the ground in the bunker so your ball is in the bunker, even if it is outside the vertical wall of the bunker. Therefore, if you found and identified the ball and wanted to use options b or c of Rule 28 – Ball Unplayable, you would have to drop it in the bunker.
January 15th, 2009 at 12:05 pm
Leslie Battersby writes:
I had hit a ball on a par 3 to an island green, the ball landed near the front of the green and appeared to stick for the time I was looking at it, I turned around and put my club in my bag and turned back around towards the hole only to see a seagull chasing my ball down the slope and the seagull hit the ball twice with its beak, the ball entered the water. I then saw the seagull enter the water and it appeared that it picked it up and flew off with my ball. I was not sure if the seagull originally pushed my ball or my ball started rolling on its own. However I did see the seagull twice interfere with the roll of the ball. I proceeded under rule 27-1 and hit a ball from the drop zone and two putted and recorded a 5 for my score. Should I have been granted relief where I first saw the seagull interfere per rule 18-1 or is 27-1 the proper ruling. By the way during this time my partner was teeing his ball and only saw the seagull chasing my ball into the water. We also observed other seagulls disturbing other balls that landed on the green that were replaced under rule 18-1
The seagull is an outside agency. Since you say your ball was at rest on the putting green when it was moved by the seagull, Rule 18-1 says you should place it at the spot where it was. Since the ball was not immediately recoverable, you may substitute another ball. There is no penalty involved.
If your ball had not been at rest, Rule 19-1a would have applied. Normally if your ball in motion is deflected or stopped by an outside agency you would play it as it lies. But, since the seagull was taking action to cause it to continue moving, you should handle as if it ended up in or on a moving animate agency and placed a ball at the point where the gull first made contact with it. Again, if the ball is not recoverable you may substitute and there is no penalty. Decision 19-1/6 covers this.
January 19th, 2009 at 9:16 am
Leslie Battersby writes:
John,
Maybe a little more clarification is needed. I did not see whether the seagull started the ball rolling or it started rolling on its own nor did my partner or any one else in our group. The ball appeared at rest for a few moments after hitting it onto the green. I only saw the seagull chasing and hitting the ball after it was moving and was part way down the slope. When we got to the green we did see the ball mark near the top edge of the slope. In the note that follows rule 18-1 it states “it must be known or virtually certian that an outside agency has moved the ball in the absence of such knowledge or certianty, the player must play under rule 27-1. Since we never saw what caused the intial movement of the ball this is what we proceeded under. Could I have still used rule 18-1 knowing other balls had been moved by the seagulls or must I see the initial movement to my ball by the outside agency to proceed under 18-1? Many Thanks
Leslie,
Since you did not see if the gull started it moving or if it moved on its own, it comes down to the best estimate that can be made. Since you saw the ball at rest, at least momentarily, in the absence of any other factors such as severe wind or a very steep slope, it can probably be concluded that the ball was moved by the gull. If those factors were present, then it is possible that the ball started moving before the gull attacked it. But, if we assume that gull did strike the ball while it was moving and caused more movement or altered its movement, Rule 19-1a would still apply. In the case where Rule 18 applies, you would put the ball back where it came to rest. If Rule 19 applies, you would put the ball where you believe it was first struck by the gull while it was moving. In either case, I believe you can go to the green and play from there.
January 19th, 2009 at 11:19 am
Steve Henneuse writes:
I reached the Par5 11th green in regulation at the 2008 Pittsburgh City Tournament at Delta View GC by hitting driver, driver, 7 iron! The wind was outrageous and the slope of that green + pin placement was outrageous! Loved it! However, my 4ft birdie putt, which I incidentally just barely “tapped”, finished 30 yards down the fairway! As did my next 2 pitch shots. Ultimately, I got a 9 on the hole as did a few others. It pretty much blew the wind out of my sails.. haha! After the round, one of my playing competitors mentioned that I could have deemed my “birdie” putt now lying 30 yards down the fairway unplayable and played my 6th shot from where I just played my fourth (stroke + distance). 4ft is closer than I would probably ever hit my 30 yard pitch shot, so this seems like a good deal. Is this true? And if so, do I “drop” on the green or “place”? And why didn’t Tiger Woods do this when he putted off the 13th green into Rae’s Creek at the Masters that year? I’m thinking because it isn’t legal?
Nice article and good read, thnx!
EDIT:
btw, this security code captcha stuff has gotten out of hand. “prove that you’re not a bot!” .. geez, how are humans supposed to read those letters! :)
Yes, you could have declared your ball unplayable and tried the putt again. Rule 28 – Ball Unplayable allows you to declare your ball unplayable anywhere on the golf course except when it is in a water hazard. Option (a) under that rule allows you to play from where you played your last shot (stroke and distance). Rule 20-5 says that when you are playing your shot from where your previous shot was played and that was the putting green, you place the ball. So, you could have declared your ball in the fairway unplayable and placed it back on the spot you where you had hit the putt.
As to why Tiger Woods didn’t do that at the Masters, he was playing under Rule 26 (Water Hazard), but he could also have placed his ball back on the green. But, his putt was much longer than a 4-footer and he probably felt he could chip it closer rather than risk putting it back in the water.
I have been informed that Tiger Woods did choose to use option (a) under Rule 26 and placed his ball back on the putting green on the 13th at Augusta in 2005.
January 20th, 2009 at 7:55 pm
Frank writes:
I was reading one of the other questions, and it made me think about this…if you chip on to a green and the ball rolls back past where it was before the shot, and goes into the water..do you still have the option of playing from the original shot since this would be closer than where the ball went into the hazard?
At any time you may proceed under Stroke and Distance, even if the point where you made the stroke from is closer to the hole than where your ball ended up.
January 21st, 2009 at 8:32 am
Spalding writes:
I am not a member of a private country club (and never have been), but my NCGA handicap is ‘registered’ with a private club. Am I eligible to play in the NCGA Public Links championship?
January 21st, 2009 at 11:20 am
Drew writes:
I read in the Decisions book that if two players both lose balls in a water hazard, the order of play for the next shots is decided by lot. Would it make any difference if the balls that were lost had both been hit from the tee? And is order decided by lot if one player hit again from the tee and the other player decided to drop along the hole/margin line and was closer to the hole than his opponent who was using the tee box? (The note under 10-1 leaves me still unclear).
The NCGA follows the same definition of a public golfer as the USGA in determining who is eligible for our Public Links. Championship. Contestants must be bona fide public course players who do not hold playing privileges in any course from which the general public is excluded or privileges in any private club maintaining its own course. Exceptions: A bona fide public course member may hold incidental privileges at a course not open to the public when such privileges are provided by: (1) An educational institution of which he is a student; or (2) Federal Armed Service of which he is a member; or (3) An industry by which he is employed.
If you have a specific question about your case, please call our Rules and Competitions Department at 831-625-4653.
Drew,
It does not matter where the balls were played from in the case described.
The note to 10-1 means that if your only choice was to play under stroke and distance (lost ball outside a water hazard or ball Out of Bounds), the point of your previous stroke is used to determine order of play. If you have other options such as a ball in a water hazard, you use the current location of the balls.
In the case where both balls are lost in the same general area of a water hazard, it can’t be known which ball is further from the hole. Therefore the decision as to who will play first must be made by lot as described in Decision 10/3. This decision is irrespective of which option the players might choose under the water hazard rule.
If the two balls lost in the water hazard were lost in signficantly different areas (I top my ball into the hazard and you fly yours 200 yards further before it splashes), the player whose ball was obviously further from the hole would play first.
If one ball was lost in the hazard, but the other player’s ball was outside the hazard approximately the same distance from the hole, the order would again be determined by lot.
January 21st, 2009 at 11:47 am
mark anderson writes:
A player decided to test the rough, so we placed (grounded) his club IN FRONT of the ball (say 6 inches), subsequently the ball moved. The player contends he did not incur a penalty because grounding your club must be at address. What is the ruling?
Mark,
There are two reasons a player gets penalized when his ball moves. A player is penalized under Rule 18-2b if he has addressed the ball and it subsequently moves. Decision 18-2b/5.5 says that a player who “grounds” his club in front of the ball is liable for penalty under Rule 18-2b. Therefore, if he has completed his stance and grounded the club in front of the ball he has addressed it.
The other way a player is penalized is under Rule 18-2a. Under this rule, the player is penalized if he causes his ball to move. If it can be determined that the placing of the club in front of the ball caused it to move, he would be subject to penalty even if he had not completed addressing the ball.
But, beyond all that, if, in placing the club down in front of the ball, he, in any way, improved his line of play (pressing down some grass etc), he would be in violation of Rule 13-2 which is a two-stroke penalty (loss of hole in match play) regardless of the ball’s subsequent movement. At that point his action would have violated two different rules. Since one action caused this, he would receive the greater of the two penalties which would be for the violation of Rule 13-2.
January 23rd, 2009 at 4:20 pm
Chuck MIllard writes:
Thursday, 29 Jan 09 at the FBR/Scottsdale Open. Anthony Kim’s ball came to rest in a cactus. He took an unplayable lie, going back on the line from the pin through the ball. He stopped and dropped his ball just off the concrete cart path. Now his stance was ON the concrete cart path and he hit it from there. The poor footing resulted in a mediocre shot. As I understand it, he could have taken additional relief, with no penalty, from the cart path and the video clearly suggested that he would have had a better lie, a better stance, and a better angle to the green. Is my interpretation right and if so, do you have any idea why he chose NOT to take the additional relief? There was a rules official helping, but I suppose he was under no obligation to volunteer the info about the additional relief option. Thanks. Chuck
Anthony Kim did take an unplayable from the cactus and used option (b) of Rule 28. He called the official over to determine if he was allowed to drop the ball where he did and if he didn’t like his lie, would be able to take relief from the cart path. He was told that he could take relief if he had interference from the path after dropping. He did have interference but he evidently liked the lie he got and decided to play the ball while standing on the path.
From there he hit his shot onto the cart path by the green, again chose not to take relief and chipped it from the path. He then made a 8-foot putt to save his par 5.
January 30th, 2009 at 4:06 pm
Drew writes:
In 4 ball play both my partner and I are on the green. I putt and my partner who has not previously marked his ball, quickly marks and lifts it after my putt is in motion thinking my ball might hit his. Do we both get penalized or just my partner for lifting his ball after mine was in motion? Or do neither of us get penalized as the balls never collided? Are the rulings different for stroke and match play?
February 1st, 2009 at 3:59 pm
John Vander Borght writes:
Drew,
Your partner is not allowed to lift a ball while another ball is in motion that might assist or interfere with another players ball. Therefore, he would receive the general penalty under Rule 22-2. In stroke play, he would recieve a two-stroke penalty. In match play he would be disqualified for the hole and your score would have to count for the team.
If his ball would have hit yours had it been left in place, he would also be penalized under Rule 30-3f in match play or 31-8 in stroke play as your violation would have assisted him.
February 2nd, 2009 at 9:31 am
William Delaney writes:
Does the number one handicap hole have to in the first nine holes of play? If so, why is that?
February 2nd, 2009 at 12:00 pm
John Vander Borght writes:
William,
In general, yes they should be on the first nine.
The following is from the USGA Handicap System Manual:
“The USGA recommends that the odd-numbered strokes be assigned to the holes on the first nine and the even-numbered strokes to the holes on the second nine.
This format equalizes, as nearly as possible, the distribution of handicap strokes over the entire 18 holes, and makes matches more equitable. In a case where the second nine is decidedly more difficult than the first nine, consideration should be given to allocating the odd-numbered strokes to the second nine.”
February 2nd, 2009 at 12:12 pm
Ken Lyon writes:
My question has to do with the embedded ball rule. The rule itself reads: “25-2. Embedded Ball A ball embedded in its own pitch-mark in the ground in any closely mown area through the green may be lifted, cleaned and dropped, without penalty, as near as possible to the spot where it lay but not nearer the hole. The ball when dropped must first strike a part of the course through the green. “Closely mown area” means any area of the course, including paths through the rough, cut to fairway height or less.” Watching the PGA, it appears this rule is loosely interpreted as the pros tend to get a drop whenever the ball embeds in it’s pitch mark, even in light rough. If the ball is embedded in the rough, can you get a free drop?
February 2nd, 2009 at 3:12 pm
John Vander Borght writes:
Ken,
You are correct that the rule as found in Rule 25-2 only allows relief in closely mown areas. In Appendix I on page 107 of the 2008-2009 Rules of Golf, there is an optional local rule allowing relief through the green. The only exceptions to that are for relief from sandy areas in the rough or when it is clearly unreasonable to play the shot due to some other factor.
Every tour and association, including the USGA and the NCGA, that I am aware of in the United States implements the local rule. In the rest of the world, it is not so universal and it is primarily the opposition of the Royal and Ancient Golf Club of St. Andrews that has prevented it becoming the rule.
February 2nd, 2009 at 3:26 pm
Joe writes:
When putting, I noticed that a player straddles the line of putt behind the ball, looks at the hole and takes practice strokes. Before the practice strokes begin, he grounds the putter so that it touches the extended line of the putt behind the ball the toe of the putter pointing to the hole and the entire length of the putter touching the extended line of play. then when he moves in to address the ball and putt. He leaves the putter on the ground, touching the line of play with the putter’s toe still pointing at the hole, then right before he takes his stance, he moves his putter to aim it and places it right behind the ball then putts. Before he takes his stance, is the touching of the line of play allowed in the fashion described above? Thanks!
Joe,
The definition of line of putt states that it is the line the player wishes his ball to take after a stroke on the putting green. It starts at the ball and ends at the hole. Therefore, if he is placing his putter down behind the ball, he is not touching his line of putt and there would be no violation. Even if he were touching the ground in front of the ball, if it was while in the process of addressing it, Rule 16-1a would exempt him from penalty as long as he didn’t press anything down.
February 2nd, 2009 at 4:23 pm
Robert Lall writes:
Are scores shot in a foreign country to be posted in the NCGA? I’ve been in the Philippines for six months, playing almost 20 rounds so my current index is not reflective of my current play.
February 3rd, 2009 at 7:35 pm
John Vander Borght writes:
Robert,
If the course has a course rating and a slope you should post your scores.
February 4th, 2009 at 8:58 am
Doug writes:
Our club is going to hold its first match play tournament this year. We had a question as to scoring in match play when men play women on a hole that is of different par for men and women. For instance, there is a par 74 course for women that is par 72 for men. Hole 11 is a par 5 for women and a par 4 for men. If both score a 5, is that hole halved?
Thanks!
February 5th, 2009 at 1:23 pm
John Vander Borght writes:
Doug,
In the USGA Handicap Manual, Decision 9-4a/3 covers this. According to that decision, par is irrelevant. The player who completes the hole in the fewest strokes wins the hole.
February 5th, 2009 at 1:58 pm
Drew writes:
Hi,
At our course, a par three with a water hazard also has a drop area. I hit my first shot into the hazard and took a chance and tried to play the ball from where it was in the hazard. My plan backfired and the shot ended up out of bounds. Then, I decided I no longer wanted to try playing out of the hazard; I wanted to drop outside the hazard. Could I have still used the drop area? Or must I use one of the other w/h options?
Drew,
There is nothing in the rules to prohibit you from using the drop zone.
Since your ball went out of bounds, you would get a penalty stroke to get back to where you hit from inside the hazard (Rule 27) and another one to get out of the hazard (Rule 26). Rule 26-2b covers when a ball is hit out of bounds from a water hazard.
February 8th, 2009 at 12:14 pm
Sonny Ziegler writes:
A local player was on the green and his teammate skulled a shot from off the green toward that player. The player stopped the ball with his putter to keep it from going off the green. The player who stopped the ball incurred a two stroke penalty under rule 1-2 (and the risk of being disqualified). What does the player who hit the ball do? Does he cancel his shot and replay from the same position? Does he incur a penalty?
February 13th, 2009 at 6:35 pm
John Vander Borght writes:
Sonny,
By teammate, I am assuming you mean a partner in a four-ball event rather than a teammate in an event such as a college tournament. I also assume we are talking about stroke play. Decision 1-2/7 talks about a similar kind of incident, although it is match play and on the putting green so I’ll extrapolate from it.
Because the player whose ball is affected suffers the consequences of the actions of his partner he would be penalized 2 strokes under Rule 1-2. If the breach was a serious one, he would be disqualified for that hole. If the action by the partner was a casual one the partner would not be penalized (e.g. he just reached out and stopped the ball as it went by). If it was more purposeful (e.g. he positioned himself there with the intent of stopping the ball from going in a hazard), he would receive a two-stroke penalty and if it was deemed to be a serious breach, he would be disqualified for that hole. Since both players are disqualified for the serious breach, the team would be disqualified under Rule 31-7b.
February 14th, 2009 at 9:11 am
Pat Faeth writes:
I just read Stump the Rules Wizards in the winter issue of NCGA Golf. The illustration on page 64 shows the drop line on a line extended from the location of the ball in the hazard to the hole. It seems unlikely a tee shot would have entered the hazard at this point. Shouldn’t the entry point more likely be to the right of what is shown, with the resulting drop line more in line with the tee box? Thanks.
Pat,
The line is not really from the location of the ball, but from the point where that line crossed the yellow line on the green side of the hazard. The illustration shows a ball that flew to the green and was taken back into the water by backspin or the slope of the green and its surrounds. The fact that ball ball happens to be on the line is irrelevant. All that matters is where it last crossed the line. In looking at the picture, I can see how the arc also makes it appear to be picture of the ball in the air, but that was not the intent. If the ball had not been on the green side at any time (in the air or on the ground), the point of entry would have been on the tee side where the black line crosses the yellow one and player could have kept that point between the point he drops and the hole in taking relief.
February 16th, 2009 at 10:30 am
Drew writes:
I’m either blind or the link to “Stump…” is gone. I have to use the search window to find the questions thrown your way. Can we get a more direct link to your questions and answers on the home page?
Drew – It is now the bottom link in the green box placed on the middle right of the homepage. Thanks,
February 16th, 2009 at 4:33 pm
Alex Graham writes:
In a recent tournament, I pitched my ball from a down hill lie where it landed on the green and proceeded to roll off the green and come to rest in an animal hole at the edge of the fringe just before a 6-inch strip of rough that then dropped off into the water. There were no hazard lines drawn on the ground, and my ball was outside the line between the nearest two red stakes. In this case, a portion of the green was also outside these stakes. It was determined that I don’t get free relief from the burrowing animal hole and I had to play it as it lies or return to the spot of my previous shot.
Was this the correct ruling? Could I have dropped my ball on the green where it entered the hazard line? Can you expand on the interpretation of the hazard line for peninsula or island greens with red stakes?
You say that your ball was “outside” the line, but you seem to imply that your ball was inside the water hazard. There is no relief from abnormal ground conditions such as a burrowing animal hole when your ball is in a water hazard. Therefore your only was to play it or proceed under the water hazard rule. Given that the stakes were red, you have 4 options under that rule. Sometimes they are not all available.
Option 1 is to return to where you just played from, which is what you were advised. Option 2 would be to drop on the far side of the hazard, keeping the point where your ball last crossed the margin of the hazard. Option 3 was to drop outside the hazard within two club-lengths of the point where the ball last crossed the margin at a point no nearer the hole. Option 4 would be to determine if there was a point on the opposite margin of the hazard the same distance from the hole as the point you last crossed and drop within two club-lengths of that no nearer the hole. From your description, it sounds like Option 3 was not available due to all points being closer to the hole. I don’t know if any others were available. As for an island green, some of the options might or might not exist due to the nature of the hole. You should also be aware that in determining a location for Option 4, you can not cross areas that are outside the hazard so you can’t go to the other side of the island and drop.
February 23rd, 2009 at 11:22 pm
Kacey Tyler writes:
My ball lies within a tree well and it is clearly cut for irrigation purposes. Do I get relief from the well whether the tree interferes with my swing or not?
Decision 33-2a/10.5 says:
“. What is the status under the Rules of tree wells or tree basins?
A. There is no relief under the Rules from tree basins which are not made of artificial materials.
If a tree basin has an artificial wall, the wall is an obstruction unless the Committee deems it to be an integral part of the course under
Rule 33-2a.”
February 24th, 2009 at 10:29 am
Drew writes:
The following was told to me so I can’t be sure of the correctness of the situation. (Perhaps you have better knowledge of the circumstances.) Anyway, I was told that at the recent ATT, Charles Howell, playing the fifth hole at PB hit his tee shot off the cart path and his ball ended up inside the jacket of a spectator who was standing further down on the cart path. What is the sequence of drops that Charles Howell would have had to make to get his ball back into play correctly?
Rule 19-1 covers a ball in motion that is deflected or stopped by an outside agency. In general, the ball is played as it lies. But, if it comes to rest or on a moving or animate outside agency, the ball is to be dropped at the point where it came to rest in or on the outside agency. Therefore, Howell must drop a ball at the point where the person was standing when the ball went into his/her jacket. If after dropping, he had interference with the cart path, he could have taken relief from it.
February 24th, 2009 at 2:58 pm
James Murphy writes:
Hello, I was playing in a Match Play event last weekend and I have a question. During the match, a player who was also in the event and had played the course that same day came out and started to caddy for my opponent, his friend. My opponent did not ask my permission but I did not bring it up. It might be too late for me now, but is that legal? I think there are differences in match and stroke play. Thanks.
Decision 6-4/8 says that it is ok for a player who has already played the course that day (or one who is going to play it later) can caddie for another player. Here is the wording:
Q. Two players playing in the same competition at different times on the same day caddie for each other. Is this permissible?
A. Yes.
February 24th, 2009 at 5:13 pm
John Vander Borght writes:
Drew,
When A put down the incorrectly substituted ball, it became his ball in play (Rule 15-2). Under Rule 20-6, he should have replaced the substituted ball with the original at that point since he had not yet played a stroke at the substituted ball. Therefore, by returning to his original spot, with the original ball, he has lifted his ball in play and not replaced it properly and is penalized 2 strokes under Rule 20-1.
March 3rd, 2009 at 10:21 am
Drew writes:
In the internet discussion on this question, it was argued that it was necessary for the player to place his ball where the wrong substitution took place. Your explanation makes much more sense. Thanks.
March 3rd, 2009 at 10:46 am
Drew writes:
Which takes precedence in a “Protection of Young Trees” situation when the local rule says the player MUST take relief and the exception says player may NOT take relief if interference by anything other than the tree exits, perhaps by:
1) Integral parts of the course which include cables, rods, wires or wrappings when closely attached to trees
2) A boundary wall or fence
3) Tree roots or some other possible unplayable situation.
Drew,
The items that are tied to the tree and declared integral parts of the course are a part of the tree in this case so relief would be granted. Assuming the tree roots were from this tree, they would also be included. If the ball was unplayable for some other reason such as a bush which prevented the player from taking a stance relief should be denied. Also, if a boundary wall or fence prevented the player from playing the ball, no relief would be available. If after taking an unplayable penalty away from those items, interference with the tree still existed, the player could take relief from it.
March 4th, 2009 at 10:34 am
C.J. writes:
If the first group out on the final day of an NCGA tournament consists of three players, can a fourth substitute/marker player (provided his handicap is appropriate) play with the group?
March 15th, 2009 at 8:35 am
John Vander Borght writes:
C.J.,
Only players who have registered for the tournament can play during NCGA tournaments. Also, if a player is disqualified, he is not allowed to play in any further rounds.
March 18th, 2009 at 4:49 pm
Kurt Garcia writes:
I may be over thinking this one but to speed up play I have seen players say they are hitting a provisional ball even though the first ball hit will clearly end up in the water hazard and not lost and not out of bounds. Is the player entitled to hit a provisional? If not is there a penalty? I’m asking because I have experienced a player hitting a provisional ball which ended up in a better lie than their 1st (which came to rest in the hazard) so they chose play the provisional.
27-2. Provisional Ball
a. Procedure
If a ball may be lost outside a water hazard or may be out of bounds, to save time the player may play another ball provisionally in accordance with Rule 27-1. The player must inform his opponent in match play or his marker or a fellow-competitor in stroke play that he intends to play a provisional ball, and he must play it before he or his partner goes forward to search for the original ball.
If he fails to do so and plays another ball, that ball is not a provisional ball and becomes the ball in play
March 20th, 2009 at 2:59 pm
John Vander Borght writes:
Kurt,
If a player hits a ball the he calls a provisional when the ball can clearly not be lost anywhere other than a water hazard. It is not a provisional, but his ball in play, lieing 3 (the second ball is played under Stroke and Distance.)
If there is a possibility that the ball could be somewhere other than a water hazard, the player would be justified in hitting the provisional. If the ball was found in the water hazard, he would abandon the provisional and either play the ball as it lies or proceed under the water hazard rule.
If he did not know it was a water hazard, he would be ok to have played the provisional, but once he discovered that the area where he hit the original ball was a water hazard he must abandon the provisional ball and either continue with the original or play a ball under the water hazard rule.
Anytime a ball is found in a water hazard or there is virtual certainty that it is lost in the water hazard, the provisional MUST be abandoned.
With all that in mind, there is a local rule which can be used to allow a provisional for a ball in a water hazard if the player’s only option would usually be to return to the previous spot and it would be very time consuming to do so. But, this must be instituted with a local rule and shouldn’t be used frequently. The local rule is specified in the Appendix of the Rules of Golf.
March 22nd, 2009 at 9:02 am
Scott writes:
Hello, can you clear up a point regarding Rule 6-6b/c? A and B are competitors in stroke play match and at the end of the round, A signs his scorecard. B declines to attest A’s scorecard due to the application of a penalty. If A and B present their case to the Committee, can A’s score be adjusted without disqualification? Or is it too late as he already signed his score? Thank you.
March 22nd, 2009 at 9:43 pm
Jeff writes:
We recently finished a two man four ball tournament at the club I belong to. One of the teams was disqualified because their playing partners refused to sign their card due to – what they thought – were two rules violation that occurred during the round.
The first perceived violation was thought to occur because, during the tournament – which was being played under lift, clean and place because of the recent rains – player A picked up what he thought was his ball, discovered it was not his, dropped it where he found it and subsequently picked up his own ball and proceeded to finish out the hole. While his ball was not even necessary because of his playing partners’ score on the hole, the opponents claimed that player A had cheated by dropping new ball in play.
The second perceived violation occurred when player A hit a ball into a lateral hazard. Using his option, he dropped a ball on a line extending past the point of entry and the hole location, made a legal drop, and finished out the hole.
The issue is not so much the legality of the two incidents, but weather of not the opponent should have made a claim at the time of the perceived rules violations and confronted the player in a timely manner. The opponent, in this case, decided to not say anything until AFTER the stipulated round and then refused to sign the scorecard.
What should occur at this point? The head pro of the course determined that, since there was no signed scorecard for the affected team, they would have to be disqualified and the second place team declared the winner.
March 23rd, 2009 at 8:29 am
JohnV writes:
Scott,
The scorecard can be changed until it is considered returned to the Committee. This should be defined by the Committee. At NCGA events, we define a scoring area. As long as the player is still within that scoring area, the card can be changed even if it is signed. We urge players to stay in the scoring area until we check the card. If there was any dispute, it can resolved.
March 23rd, 2009 at 10:10 am
John Vander Borght writes:
Jeff,
In a stroke play tournament, there is no requirement for timeliness in making a claim such as there is in match play. Still, there are times when a violation might result in disqualification unless it is corrected before the player tees off on the next hole. Also, it is always best to get the facts straight as soon as possible. Therefore, it is best to bring the issue to the attention of the players involved as soon as possible.
If the marker refuses to sign the score card, the Committee in charge of the competition should determine the facts and make a determination. Once the determination is made, the marker should sign the card along with the player. But, the marker could still refuse to sign. The Committee can then accept the card without that signature. Decision 6-6a/4 covers this.
March 23rd, 2009 at 10:18 am
Joe writes:
During a club match, competitor A used a legal rangefinder on a par three tee box. Competitor B demanded to know the yardage as measured saying that it was to be considered common knowlege. Did A have to tell B what yardage he measured?? Thanks
March 23rd, 2009 at 11:24 am
John Vander Borght writes:
Joe,
A is not required to tell B what he measured. Out of courtesy I would think the should though.
March 23rd, 2009 at 12:16 pm
Drew writes:
A player hits his ball into a tree. The ball is identifiable and even playable to a limited degree as it would be possible to get a club on the ball with a stroke similar to a baseball swing trying to hit a pitch very high in the strike zone. To make this stroke, the player would be standing in casual water. Does the exception to Rule 25 preclude him from getting relief or is this one of the times when the rules of golf help out the player? And if he does get relief, does the relief point start directly below the ball?
March 24th, 2009 at 6:46 pm
John Vander Borght writes:
Drew,
As long as it is reasonable to make a stroke at the ball, you would be entitled to relief if you were standing in the casual water. You would need to determine the nearest point where you were not standing in the casual water and the ball would not be in it or your swing not interferred with if you dropped it there. Then drop within one club-length of that point with no penalty.
March 25th, 2009 at 9:33 am
george writes:
Okay my ball ends up in the base of a tree and I want to take relief.
I have 2 questions.
Can I take relief through the tree 2 club lengths.
also can you explain stance and club length relief and when it can be used.
March 29th, 2009 at 7:33 am
John Vander Borght writes:
George,
I assume that you mean you are declaring your ball unplayable when it is “in the base of the tree”. Under Rule 28 – Ball Unplayable, you have 3 options all with a penalty of one stroke. 1) You can return to where you played your last stroke 2) you can drop at a point that is along a direct line from the hole through the point where your ball was unplayable, no nearer the hole, going back as far as you want or 3) drop within two club-lengths of the point where your ball lies, no nearer the hole. If you choose option three, you measure the two club-lengths from the location of the ball. You could measure “through” the tree. To do that, estimate the amount of distance through the tree and continue from there with whatever is left of the two club-lengths.
Stance and club-length relief is used when taking free relief from immovable obstructions, ground under repair, casual water or the like. When you take a drop for things such as lateral water hazards or unplayable lies, you can drop within 2 club lengths, but you don’t necessarily get stance relief.
March 31st, 2009 at 11:32 am
Alan Battle writes:
I addressed my tee shot on a windy day. During my swing the ball was blown off the tee. I could not stop my swing in time and struck the top of the ball. Am I allowed to retee or do I play on counting the stroke.
April 1st, 2009 at 9:04 am
Duane Peterson writes:
At a recent boys’ High School Tournament (stroke play), Player A and Player B each had reached the green and marked their ball. Player A replaced his ball and struck his putt. As Player A’s ball was in motion, Player B replaced his ball. Player A’s ball struck player B’s ball. Is player B penalized two strokes? Does Player A continue play from where his ball came to rest after striking the ball of Player B?
If your intent to hit the ball stopped, you would normally be considered not to have made a stroke, but Decision 14/1.5 says that if you hit the ball you would be considered to have made a stroke. Rule 11-3 says that if your ball falls off the tee and you make a stroke, the ball is in play and shall be played as it lies.
Decision 16-1b/3 covers this. As long as B did not replace his ball with the intent of deflecting the ball, there is no penalty and A must play the ball as it lies. If B had replaced the ball with the intent of deflecting the ball, he would be in violation of Rule 1-2 and would be penalized 2 strokes or possibly be disqualifed.
April 1st, 2009 at 10:53 am
Kevin S writes:
Great article/feature…thanks!
My question is in regard to Rule 7, and came up in a stroke play event. Player A plays his third stroke from a bunker, catches the ball thin and it flys over the green. In frustration (or confusion!), he makes another swing while still standing at his original spot where his third stroke occured. Player B argues that he is testing the condition of the hazard and should be penalized. Player A argues that Rule 7, Note 1 states that “A practice swing is not a practice stroke and may be taken at any place, provided the player does not breach the Rules.” Who is correct?
Thanks for your input, and again…great article!
April 2nd, 2009 at 3:20 pm
Kevin S writes:
In reviewing Rule 13, I think it is important to add that in the situation described above, Player A’s ball did NOT lie in another “Similar Hazard” (bunker) after his third shot was played. I’m not sure if this factors into the decision, but wanted to add that detail.
Kevin,
As long as the ball is outside the original hazard there is no penalty. The only time a player is penalized for testing the hazard is if the ball lies in the hazard. Rule 13-4 says “before making a stroke at a ball that is in a hazard … the player must not (a) test the condition of the hazard or a similar hazard”. Since the ball is not in this hazard he can not be penalized under rule 13. As you said, Rule 7 only applies for practice strokes, not swings.
Additionally, even if his ball has come to rest in another hazard, he is not penalized due to Exception 3 in Rule 13-4 which says “If a player makes a stroke from a hazard and the ball comes to rest in another hazard, Rule 13-4a does not apply to any subsequent actions taken in the hazard from which the stroke was made.”
April 2nd, 2009 at 4:12 pm
Ed writes:
Can an opponent stand on the line of your putt to get a read while you are putting?
April 4th, 2009 at 12:10 pm
John Vander Borght writes:
Ed,
There is nothing in the rules to prevent the opponent standing on the line to read the putt, but most people would consider it bad etiquette.
April 4th, 2009 at 12:11 pm
Drew writes:
In an NCGA qualifier at our club a player hit his tee shot into an area of rough near an adjacent fairway and near where other players were playing their shots on that adjacent hole. After searching for his ball and finding an abandoned ball the player determined that someone from the other hole had played his ball. (Let’s assume for our question that he had virtual certainty.) Accordingly, he followed the plan of Dec. 18-1/5 and dropped a ball in an equitable location. Before he made a stroke at that dropped ball his original ball was found, presumably within five minutes. The player picked up the dropped ball and played the original ball onto the green and completed the hole and teed off on the next hole. What is the ruling?
April 4th, 2009 at 9:12 pm
John Vander Borght writes:
Drew,
If we assume he had virtual certainty (which might be debatable), when he dropped the ball, he had properly put a ball into play and the original ball was now out of play. Therefore, he should have continued with the dropped ball. The original ball was a wrong ball. If the ball had been dropped in an area that was definitely incorrect, he could correct that under Rule 20-6 by dropping in the correct area. See Decision 26-1/3.5 for an analogous situation with a ball dropped under the Water Hazard rule.
Given that he played a wrong ball and didn’t correct it before teeing off on the next hole, he should have been disqualified. But, since the competition is now probably closed and he was unaware of the error before it closed, he can not be disqualified at this point.
April 4th, 2009 at 9:13 pm
Scott writes:
On the right side of two adjoining holes, a course has a lateral water hazard. The hazard is a water gully, and is constructed with concrete. If a player’s ball lies outside the hazard, but his stance would be upon the concrete, is the player entitled to relief based on the fact it is a man-made obstruction? Thanks.
April 4th, 2009 at 11:27 pm
John Vander Borght writes:
Scott, As long as the ball lies outside the water hazard, the player is entitled to relief if he has interference with his stance or area of intended swing by an obstruction in the hazard. If the Committee wished to prevent that, they could declare the concrete to be an integral part of the course.
In determining the nearest point of relief, the nearest point outside the hazard that gives complete relief and the ball must be dropped outside the hazard.
April 5th, 2009 at 6:44 pm
Drew writes:
A follow-up question to my earlier one regarding the “stolen” ball: Could the player have played both balls (the original and the dropped ball) under 3-3 if he stated his intentions to do so before either playing either of the balls? And could he have used 3-3 after lifting the dropped ball or does that action negate the use of 3-3?
April 6th, 2009 at 12:29 pm
John Vander Borght writes:
Drew,
Yes, the player could have played both balls under rule 3-3 before playing either ball. His lifting of the ball would still allow him to play both balls, although, he would have been penalized one stroke on the ball he lifted when it was ruled to count. Once he had played one of the balls, he would no longer be allowed to use 3-3, although there is no penalty if he tried to do so.
April 7th, 2009 at 6:00 pm
Jake writes:
A players ball comes to rest on a cart path. The player picks up his ball without marking walks to the side of the cart path and drops the ball from less than shoulder height and then proceeds to hit his ball while standing on the cart path. I know he recieves 2 penalty strokes for not takeing complete relief but what about the other 2 infractions ? (This did happen in a qualifier) Thanks for your time.
April 8th, 2009 at 7:03 pm
John Vander Borght writes:
Jake,
There is only one other violation which is dropping in an incorrect manner. There is no penalty for not marking the location as the ball is not being replaced. Decision 20-2a/3 says that if a player drops in an improper manner and in a wrong place and doesn’t correct it before playing a shot, he is penalized 3 strokes.
April 8th, 2009 at 7:37 pm
Eileen writes:
When greens are under repair with airation and sand, am I allowed to post my handicap score?
April 8th, 2009 at 7:46 pm
John Vander Borght writes:
Eileen,
Yes, scores should be posted when you play on aerified greens.
April 9th, 2009 at 7:38 am
Linda Barlesi writes:
Next week we are going to play irons only. Are hybrids irons or are they woods? And, can you post a game when you only play with your irons.
We checked with the USGA and they said there is no clear decision on what the status of hybrids are. It is up to the Committee in charge of the competition to state whether they are allowed or not. The USGA Handicap Manual states that you can not post a score when you play in an event that limits the number of clubs to less than 14 or restricts which kinds of clubs you can use. Therefore, you should not post the scores from this competition.
April 9th, 2009 at 12:48 pm
Joseph Petersen writes:
I have been puzzled by this for years. During the 1992 Masters, Freddy Couples approach shot on hole 12 found the hazard but remained dry on the slope of the bank. He knocked his chip up close to secure par. However, immediately after his chip, Mr. Couples put his iron into the water pulled a ball out from Rae’s Creek and then chipped the ball back into the water while he was still playing the 12th hole. Why was he not stroked? Why was he not disqualified for signing for a wrongful score on his scorecard?
I remember this was questioned at the time. It was decided that Couples was merely getting the ball out of the water as we all do and that his casual flick of it back into the water was not a practice stroke. Decision 7-2/5 is a decision in a similar vein that says “the casual flicking of a range ball, apparently only for the purpose of tidying up the course, is not a breach.”
April 13th, 2009 at 8:55 am
Drew writes:
I know that the margins of gur go down but not up; margins of a wh go up and down. What about the margins of an obstruction? We have a maintenance area at our club that is deemed to be an obstruction. In a few places, trees growing inside the fence line of the obstruction have branches that hang out of the obstruction area over areas that would not need relief from the fence that is the border of the maintenance area. If, however, one of these low hanging branches itself interferes with a player’s area of swing, does he get relief the same as if he were right up against the fence of the maintenance area?
April 18th, 2009 at 7:57 pm
Jerry Nobis writes:
A player hits the front of the green that has a steep drop off. It’s actually amazing that the ball stays in place and does not roll of the green to the bottom of the hill below. Player marks his ball. Peparing to putt, player attempts to replace his ball where marked, has difficulty getting the ball to stay in place without rolling off the green but finally does. Prior to addressing the ball, the ball begins to move and rolls off the green to the bottom of the hill. What is the proper way for the player to now proceed?
The Rules of Golf do not state if an immovable obstruction margins extend up or down. The only time this is considered relevant in the rules is when a ball is lost in an obstruction and it is deemed to have entered the obstruction at the edge (or drip line) of the obstruction.
Since the rules do not anticipate a situation such as you’ve described, I believe it must be decided in equity. A tree is not a man-made object and therefore, if the only interference the player has is with the tree, I do not believe he should be given relief.
It could be argued that this should be decided in a similar manner with ground under repair where all of a tree growing in the GUR is considered to be in the GUR, even those parts extending out of the GUR, but I do not consider this to be the same as the GUR is an area of natural ground that that is damaged or declared out of play for some reason while an obstruction is man-made. Additionally, the Rules Committee has decided that to extend the relief for GUR to things growing in it but have not done so for obstructions and therefore I don’t believe they want to do so.
Jerry,
If the ball was at rest when it was replaced and the player, his opponent in match or no other outside agency caused the ball to move, it must be played from where it comes to rest.
April 20th, 2009 at 8:09 am
Miguel writes:
I hope you can answer this question.
I went to the hole to hit my drive I teed the ball but held back because someone from the group ahead of us came back to retrieve something in the middle of the fairway.
I immediately stepped away from my ball to wait for the group to clear the fairway. During this time I engaged in small conversation with one of my counterparts.
During the conversation I took a practice swing while facing my play partner and struck the ball by mistake. I was assessed a penalty and a stroke by the tournament director.
My impression is that I was not addressing the ball and that it was an unintentional hit and therefore I should not been assessed the penalty.
Miguel,
Your ball was not yet in play as you had not made a stroke at it. Therefore, when you accidentally knocked it off the tee, you are allowed to re-tee it without penalty. There should not have been any penalty in this case. Rule 11-3 and the definition of ball in play cover this.
April 21st, 2009 at 8:34 am
Dan writes:
Players A and B are partners in a 4-ball stroke or match competition. At the second hole Player A tees off; before B tees offs he (B) discovers that he has 15 clubs in his bag. Decision 4-4a/11 tells us that in single stroke or match play competition no penalty would be assessed as the player with the extra club had not teed off, but what about the question above in which the side has begun the hole? Is any penalty for the second hole with too many clubs still dependent on just when the player with too many clubs begins the hole or when the side begins the hole?
Dan,
The side should be penalized on the second hole since they had begun the play of that hole. As in the case of a player who arrives late, once one player has teed off the side as begun play of the hole (Decision 31-2/1).
April 23rd, 2009 at 5:55 pm
John Girifalco writes:
I am hoping that you can clear up a ruling for me. I hit my ball into a spot that was marked as ground under repair. I dropped my ball within one clubs length of the nearest point of relief that was not closer to the hole. The ball rolled down a hill, but within two club lengths of where I dropped it, and would have put my stance on a cart path. I picked up the ball and dropped again. The same thing happened where the ball rolled down a hill and again would have put my stance on a cart path. I then placed the ball where it hit the ground and continued play. Please let me know if I proceeded correctly, and if I did not, what would have been the correct course of action. Your attention to this question is greatly appreciated. Thank you.
John,
When you took relief from the ground under repair, you had proceeded correctly until you picked up the ball and redropped at the previous point. At the time you that your ball came to rest, your ball was in play in a correct place. The cart path is a separate situation. You could play the ball as it lies or take relief from the cart path by determining your nearest point of relief from it and dropping within one club-length of that point. You lifted your ball in play and placed it in an incorrect place. You would be penalized 2 strokes under rule 20-3 or Rule 18-2 in stroke play or lost the hole in match play.
Any time you take relief and your ball comes to rest in a correct place relative to the area you are taking relief from, your ball is in play. If you have intereference from something else, you can then play the ball as it lies or take relief from that. This could be taking relief from ground under repair and ending up next to an obstruction as happened in your case or even taking relief from one area or ground under repair and ending up with interference from another area.
April 25th, 2009 at 7:40 am
John Girifalco writes:
Thank you very much for your response. I have another question. In this case, where I needed to drop was on a mound that had very little grass with packed clay soil, The total area may have been about 10 feet wide, with the cart path on one side, and the ground under repair on the other. There was enough room to establish a point of relief, but each point put me on the opposite side of the crest of the mound. If I had taken relief from the cart path as was the proper course of action, my next drop would have ended up on the other side of the mound, and rolled back into the ground under repair. There is a slim chance that it would have eventually stopped somewhere on the mound in play, but unlikely. How many times should I continue to drop if this keeps going on? I know this is a highly unusual situation, but I think that this is what would have happened in this case. Thank you.
April 25th, 2009 at 8:28 am
Janice Moura writes:
I understand a player is entitled to relief from a rock filled French drain. Over time, if grass has grown over the stone, is the player still entitled to relief from the French drain?
John,
Rule 20-2c covers the seven times when you must redrop. One of these is if your ball rolls back into the condition you are taking relief from such as ground under repair. If it does so, you would redrop. If the ball agains rolls into one of the conditions covered, you would place the ball at the point where it first struck the course on the second drop. If the ball won’t stay at rest there, you will find the nearest point where it will stay at rest and continues to give you relief from the condition you took relief from initially.
Janice,
If there is still a chance that the club could contact the rocks in the French drain, relief would be justified. We usually will probe with a tee around the ball to see if we can feel rocks. If so, we would grant a player relief. We wouldn’t want a player’s club to hit the rocks when she takes a divot.
April 27th, 2009 at 10:16 am
John writes:
Again, thank you for your response. I don’t mean to be a pain, but I am still confused. As I was taking relief from the cart path, the ball did not roll back into a position that I was taking relief from, it rolled back into the ground under repair, and ground under repair does not seem to be covered under rule 20-2c. Are you saying that even though I was dropping for relief from a cart path, because my ball was ORIGINALLY in the ground under repair, when dropping for cart path relief, I re-drop if the ball ends up in ground under repair? So in this case, even though I was taking relief from the cart path, if the ball rolls into the ground under repair, I do not proceed as if this is a new condition as I did when my first drop rolled onto the cart path. I drop twice and if it rolls into the ground under repair twice I then place the ball where it hit the ground. If this is the case, please let me know what rule this is covered by. I appreciate your responses and am just trying to make sure I understand correctly. Thank you.
April 27th, 2009 at 4:42 pm
Pat Elliott writes:
What if the wind blows the ball in the hole? It was not overhanging the hole. I hadn’t addressed it yet. After cleaning and replacing the ball a gust of wind moved the ball over three feet right into the hole. thanks, pat
May 1st, 2009 at 4:40 pm
Drew writes:
My tee shot is on the fairway 200 + yards away. The tee shot of another player in my group hits my ball and moves it a short distance. Rule 18-5 tells us the ball must be replaced. Does replace mean place at the estimated spot or drop at the estimated spot?
John,
I’m sorry I misunderstood, but once I did, I wanted to check something with the USGA.
Decision 1-4/8 discusses a situation where the ball lies in casual water and the nearest point of relief is on the cart path. After taking relief from the water, the player has interference with the cart path. The nearest point of relief is back in the casual water. After dropping there, in equity, he can find the nearest point that gives relief from both situations.
After checking with the USGA, I was told that this decision can be extended to include your case. So, after dropping twice and finding that you were going to be ping-ponging, you could find the nearest point no nearer the hole that would allow a drop to avoid both areas.
Pat,
Once a ball is at rest, if it is moved by wind or water, it is played from where it comes to rest. Since that was in the hole, the ball is considered holed with the previous shot. This happened at the US Amateur in 2003 at Oakmont Country Club. A player’s second shot on the par 4 second hole came to rest about 2 feet above the hole. He marked, lifted, cleaned and replaced it so that it was at rest. While he was looking over the putt, the wind caused it to roll down into the hole for an eagle 2.
Drew,
Note 3 to Rule 18 tells us to use Rule 20-3c if the exact spot is not known. Rule 20-3c says that since the ball was lieing through the green, you must estimate it and drop it as near as possible to the estimated spot, no nearer the hole and not in a hazard or on the putting green.
May 2nd, 2009 at 5:55 pm
Carlos Trejo writes:
I drove the ball next to a small tree right off the fairway, and my ball ended up leaning against a small tree root. There was no way I could hit the ball without first hitting the root. The tree was not staked and there was a small possibility of hitting root and snapping my iron. Is this a situation where I could get relief without a penalty stroke or is it an unplayable lie, take the penalty?
May 4th, 2009 at 3:22 pm
John Vander Borght writes:
Carlos,
From what you are describing, your only options are to play that ball as it lies or take an unplayable lie and use on of the three options available under penalty of one stroke.
May 4th, 2009 at 7:30 pm
Donald R. Shrank writes:
Guess I missed your reply. Will try again.
I am now over 80 years and no longer have distance so I have moved to the forward tees (red/ladies). I play weekly with my seniors club and
most players play from the white tees (Medal play). So the handicap question comes up. From reading your earlier replies. I now figure that I must take my handicap based on my index from the red chart and
then deduct 3 strokes (based on the slope difference for the different
tees on the course). Some say I should take my handicap, based on my index from the white tees and deduct 3 strokes and some say I should
just use the handicap for the red tees based on my index. Whos right?
May 8th, 2009 at 10:14 am
John Vander Borght writes:
Donald,
First, there needs to be a Course Rating and Slope for the Men from the red tees. If your course doesn’t have one, please have them contact our Handicap Department to get one. To calculate your Course Handicap when playing against players who are playing the white tees, you would first lookup your Handicap Index on the slope chart for the Red Tees. Then, you would calculate the difference between the Course Ratings for men for the red and white tees. Round any difference of .5 or greater up to the next number. Subtract that difference from your Course Handicap to determine how many stroke you get.
May 8th, 2009 at 10:55 am
Rick writes:
True or False
Player A hits his tee shot into a lateral water hazard. He attempts to hit out of the hazard, but hits the ball into an unplayable spot.
His options are A) drop the ball to where he hit his second shot (in the hazard) with a one stroke penalty (laying 3) or B) Take a drop outside the hazard using the spot where his tee shot crossed the hazard with a two stroke penalty (laying 4)
May 8th, 2009 at 10:24 pm
John Vander Borght writes:
Rick,
False. A) He can drop at the point he just played from with a one stroke penalty (26-2a(i)), B) Proceed under options 26-1b or 26-1c with one penalty stroke using the point where he last crossed the margin of the hazard (26-2a(ii)), C) Return to where he last played outside the hazard (the tee) and play another ball from there with one penalty stroke(26-2a(iii)). In all these cases he would be laying 3.
If after proceeding in under option A above, if he doesn’t like where the ball comes to rest, he can use options B or C above with an additional penalty stroke (laying 4) (26-2a(i)(a or b).
May 9th, 2009 at 10:07 am
Larry Coppa writes:
If someone in the foursome picks up your ball, is there a rule in Golf that addresses that situation? We were told by the Pro that there is no rule in Golf to address this.
Larry,
Rule 18 covers the movement of a ball at rest by anyone, Rule 20 covers the lifting of a ball. Rule 20 states that the ball that may be lifted under the Rules may be lifted by the player, his partner or another person authorized by the player. Rule 18 applies when the ball is without authorization or when the rules do not allow it.
Penalties depend on the status of the person in question. If the person is your partner, he is authorized to lift the ball any time that you are. He must follow the same requirements of marking the position etc. (Rule 20-1) If he lifts it when the rules don’t allow it or without marking it, there is a one-stroke penalty (Rule 18-2a or Rule 20).
If you are playing match play, you opponent may not lift your ball without your permission. If he does so, he is subject to a one-stroke penalty. (Rule 18-3)
If you are playing stroke play, any fellow competitor in your group who lifts your ball without permission is not subject to penalty. (Rule 18-4)
In all cases the ball must be replaced if the rules require it or there would be a two-stroke penalty in stroke play or loss of hole in match play that would apply to you, regardless of who lifted it (Rule 18). The ball may be replaced by you, your partner or the person who lifted it. (Rule 20-3a)
May 12th, 2009 at 10:38 am
Larry Coppa writes:
That was an awesome answer to my incomplete question. Here is the real situation. A ball was hit off the tee that admittedly came close to a foursome in the fairway. The person who hit the ball thought he would not be close at all and the drive went well over 300 yards. Someone in the foursome in front lifted the ball so when they arrived the ball was gone. The four gentlemen admitted they took the ball but it could not be determined which person. The Head Pro got involved but said there is no rule to address this behavior. Although the pro was upset he advised there was nothing he could do.
Larry,
Thanks for letting me know “the rest of the story.”
While it was very impolite of the group in front of you to pick up your ball, the only rule that could be applied would be Rule 33-7 which allows the Committee in charge of a tournament to disqualify a player who has breached etiquette among other things. This would be a very harsh punishment for a single offense.
Since there was definite evidence that the ball was moved by an outside agency, the player would have been allowed to substiute a ball and drop it as near as possible to where it was taken with no penalty.
May 12th, 2009 at 1:42 pm
Dana Niehaus writes:
We have some confusion on a new rule this year at our club. Within two club lengths of the green is an immovable obstruction. I have hit a shot behind this obstacle, which is within two club lengths of the obstruction and, I wish to putt the ball. Per the new rule, do I get free relief form the obstruction and get to drop my ball no nearer the hole and in the same mowed area without penalty? I believe this rule has to be written into the local rules to be in force. And finally, what rule is this under?
Dana,
The Local Rule you are referring to can be found on page 110 of the 2008-2009 Rules of Golf. In order to use this rule, the obstruction must be within 2 club-lengths of the edge of the green, your ball must be within 2 club-lengths of the obstruction and it must be on your line of play. Your ball can not be in a hazard. You would find the nearest point not nearer the hole where the obstruction is not on your line of play and drop there. Notice that you drop at the point of relief, not 1 club-length as in relief from a normal obstruction. Also, there is no guarantee that you will drop in the same mowed area. You might move from the fringe to the rough or vice versa.
In general, this rule should only be used at courses where there are large chipping areas around the greens and not when rough is generally close to the green.
May 13th, 2009 at 4:51 pm
Wade Harrison writes:
Are you allowed to carry more than one driver during a round?
Wade,
You can carry any combination of clubs you want as long as you don’t have more than 14 clubs. Phil Mickelson carried two drivers at the Masters a few years ago.
May 14th, 2009 at 4:58 pm
John Wheeler writes:
During a PGA event, a player hit into a bunker. There was a separate bunker adjacent to the one his ball was in. He took a couple of practice swings, grounding his club, in the adjacent bunker. He then went to the bunker with the ball and played it out. He was not assessed a penalty and the TV announcers said nothing; however, I thought it could be deemed an infraction. Is that legal to do?
Thank you,
John Wheeler
May 17th, 2009 at 12:26 pm
Jack Duke writes:
A players ball was in a bad lie in the rough. He stated that he was going to play the shot left handed because he wanted to be standing on a sprinkler which would give him a new improved lie. He took his drop and then played the shot right handed like he had been playing all day. Are you able to do this in the “fairness” of the game?
John,
Prior to making a stroke, the player may not test the hazard or a similar hazard in the method that you described. I know of no incident where this happened on the PGA Tour.
Jack
Rule 24-2 has an exception which states “A player may not take relief under this Rule if … (b) interferencde by an immovable obstruction would occur only through use of an unnecessarily abnormal stance, swing or direction of play.” If there was no reason for the player to hit the ball left handed, he is not entitled to relief and would be penalized two strokes for doing taking it in this situation.
If there was a tree or something else which prevented him from taking a right-handed stroke and the left-handed stroke gave him interference, he would be allowed to take relief as it would then be a necessary stance. If after taking relief he could play right handed he would be allowed to do so.
May 20th, 2009 at 9:31 am
Mark Silvera writes:
We had a recent club tournament and results were announced at the tournament site. Subsequently, while doing ESC adjustments for posting, I noted that one of the tournament winners had incorrectly added the totals on his scorecard. This incorrect total was used in reporting results of the tournament.
Under 34-1, a competition has been closed when the result has been officially announced and a penalty must not be imposed after the competition has closed. Under 33-5, the committee is responsible for the addition of scores.
The player signed a scorecard that was incorrect in terms of totals, but the scores on the individual holes was correct.
Is it therfore a correct interpretation that the tournament results should stand, but that the accurate ESC adjusted score should be posted for handicap calculation? I wanted to verify before posting.
Thanks in advance for your response.
May 23rd, 2009 at 11:32 am
Drew writes:
Question regarding Decision 7-2/1: Player A and B are partners in a 4-Ball stroke competition. A has picked up on a hole; B has yet to finish. While waiting for the hole to finish A putts on the green being played (or chips near the next teeing ground) away from the other players. Is A liable for penalty? If so would the penalty be assessed on the next hole as his score on the hole being played will not count? Is there any circumstance where the penalty would be applied to B? What about if the situation occurs on the last hole of the day? Similarly, what would happen if a partner, in a huff, teed off on the next hole before his partner had finished the previous hole?
May 23rd, 2009 at 2:54 pm
John Vander Borght writes:
Mark,
Since the Committee is responsible for the addition of the scores, the error should be corrected. Decision 34-1b/6 makes this clear. If this affects who received prizes, they should be correctly allocated. As for posting, the correct score should be posted. In the future, the Committee should make sure that it adds all scores when they are returned.
May 24th, 2009 at 1:56 pm
Alan Shaw writes:
Our Golf Club has a local rule for relief from “Tree wells” and to treat them as ground-under-repair. I recently read that when taking relief from the tree well (ground-under-repair), you must take complete relief, which would include overhanging limbs or leaves of the tree in g-u-r, interfering with your stroke. It seems the Golf Club’s intention was to only get relief from the tree well itself and not the tree limbs. Can you tell me who is right?
May 25th, 2009 at 9:23 am
Dan writes:
In 4-Ball if one partner is disqualified (only the one partner) or is injured and has to withdraw, do his scores on earlier holes that were the best of the two still count?
May 25th, 2009 at 7:31 pm
Keith writes:
A couple of questions regarding the use of electronic range finders:
For the upcoming NCGA Associate Club Championship (best 2 balls of 4), a) Please confirm it is acceptable to use electronic range finders and b) because members of our team will be playing in the same group, is it permissible to have just one range finder for use by both members in the group? Would this be equated to similar situations in team play where partners are permitted to get advice from their partner for things such as club selection, reading putts, etc….
Drew,
A would be penalized two strokes on the hole they were playing for practicing before the completion of the hole. B would not be penalized as long as he was not assisted in any manor by the practice (i.e. he learned about the speed of the green or the break.) It doesn’t matter if it is the last hole as the penalty is on that hole. Assuming A did not hole out and then he teed off before B had completed the hole, the team would started one hole before completing play of the previous one which would be a breach of Rule 1-1 and they would be disqualified. If A had holed out, his score would count for that hole and B would be penalized for practicing on the next hole during the play of the hole.
Alan,
If the tree well is defined as ground under repair, anything that is rooted within it is also part of the ground under repair so the entire tree would be ground under repair.
Dan,
Some disqualification penalties get the entire team disqualified if one player commits it (See Rule 31-7). Others just disqualify the player in question for the hole being played. There are no penalties which would disqualify the player for the entire round without also disqualifying his partner. If a player gets injured or stops playing for a few holes, his scores on the holes he completed may be used.
Keith,
Distance measuring devices may be used at the Associate Club Championship as long as they do not have any functions for measuring things such as slope or wind speed. Information as to distance is not considered to be advice any longer so the information obtained from using an distance measuring device may be shared with anyone in the group.
May 26th, 2009 at 9:03 am
Dan writes:
Hi John,
With regard to your helpful answer above that there are no penalties which would disqualify the player for the entire round without also disqualifying his partner, what about the examples given in Decision 1-2/0.5? Rule 2-1 is not listed in 31-7 which would seem to be a dq for one partner but not the other. Or is the dq in these instances a committee decision which would bring Rule 33-7 into play, which is listed under 31-7 so that the side would be disqualified?
Dan,
When you mentioned Rule 2-1, I assume you were still referring to Rule 1-2. Rule 1-2 would only disqualify the player for the hole unless the action assisted the partner (Rules 30-3f or 31-8). If the act was so egregious as to require a DQ, the only way that it might not help the partner is if his actions were in regards to his own ball. Obviously if he did anything to influence the partner’s ball it would help him. Also, if he did anything to influence someone else’s ball it would help the partner.
May 28th, 2009 at 4:33 pm
Tom Kennedy writes:
I had a situation during a match play round. We both teed off and hit our drives into the rough. I was walking and my opponent was riding out to find our golf balls. He got to a ball and hit it up on the green and then a few minutes later I got to the area where I thought my ball would be. After a five minute search, we couldn’t find my ball. Knowing that his ball was on the green and that I didn’t want to walk 250 yards back to the tee to play another ball, I conceded the hole. When he picked up his ball on the green he noticed that he had hit my ball. Does my concession of the hole still stand?
May 30th, 2009 at 1:40 am
John Vander Borght writes:
Tom,
When you opponent hit your ball, he lost the hole before you conceeded the hole. Therefore your concession does not stand. Decision 2-4/9 covers this exact situation.
May 31st, 2009 at 4:49 pm
Aidan writes:
A ball came to rest on a cart path (the side closer to the hole). Player requests for cart path relief. Question: does it matter which side of the cart path the ball ended up to determine the point of relief? Thanks
Aidan,
When taking relief there is one nearest point of relief. The nearest point of relief is the CLOSEST point on the course that is NOT nearer the hole where the player would have no interference for his stance, the lie of the ball and his swing. To determine this, the player should take the club he would most likely use and take a stance as if he were addressing the ball at that point. Where the club comes to rest when in the address position would be the point. He can then drop the ball within one club-length of that point, no nearer the hole. The player does not get a choice as to which side of the path he can go to. If he goes to an area that is further away than the nearest point or is nearer the hole than that point, he would be subject to penalty for playing from a wrong place.
June 1st, 2009 at 9:19 am
Jeff C. writes:
Please clarify the rule of a ball in motion and when it is in play. What is the penalty when your ball moves while a)you address it, and b)you’ve already started your swing. Is it in play on the teeing ground when you address it? Or after you actually hit it? Thanks!
June 2nd, 2009 at 1:10 pm
Dennis writes:
During a recent round my ball came to rest in bounds. The local rule defining out of bounds stated white stakes. A fence that was clearly out of bounds interfered with my stance and swing. Was I entitled to relief under 24-2 (b)?
June 4th, 2009 at 10:54 pm
Dan writes:
Another question regarding 4-ball dq possibilities: in an NCGA zone competition, if one side were to be disqualified under 31-7 because of something that happened during the fifth hole, for example, would any of the scores of those two players that would have counted for the team from the first four holes still count? Or am I imagining an impossible scenario?
Dennis, You would not be entitled to relief. The definition of an Obstruction excludes any part of an immovable artificial object that is out of bounds.
Dan,
The Rules of Golf do not fully cover the Zone Competition format. We define the two players playing together as a “side” under the rules of golf. We require two scores per hole, but they can come from the same side which is where things get away the basic Rules. We say that it is ok for both players on a side to pick up on a hole. Our opinion on this is that if a player violates one of the Rules covered in Rule 31-7a his side will be disqualified and the other side’s scores must count for all holes. The same occurs if both partners are in violation of Rule 31-7b(i). But, if both players violate another rule (such as picking up or playing a wrong ball) as covered in Rule 31-7b(ii), we allow them to continue in a similar manner as covered in Rule 31-7c. If three players were to violate Rule 31-7b(ii) on the same hole, the team would then be disqualified because they would not have two valid scores for the hole.
June 5th, 2009 at 10:32 am
Bob writes:
Which options would be in place with this scenario? A shot is played from the fairway and enters a red stake(green cap) hazard and bounces out of the hazard and crosses over a cart path on the opposite side of the hazard and then enters a yellow stake(green cap) hazard on the other side of the cart path. Thank You.
Bob,
In determining the options a player has for a ball in a water hazard, the point where the LAST entered the hazard is what matters. In your case, the ball first entered the lateral water hazard (red stake), exited the hazard, and then finally reentered the water hazard (yellow stake). Since these stakes had green tops, the area is environmentally sensitive so you may not play the ball from inside the hazard. Therefore, the only two options you have can be found in Rule 26 as 26-1a and 26-1b. 26-1a allows you to play with a one-stroke penalty from where the previous shot was played. Rule 26-1b allows you to drop a ball outside the hazard with a one-stroke penalty keeping the point where the ball last crossed the yellow staked hazard between where you drop the ball and the hole.
June 8th, 2009 at 9:30 am
Gary writes:
Is there such a rule of a lost ball if it crosses a red stake hazard. In other words is there a two stroke penalty if you lose it. or does the one stroke lateral apply.
June 12th, 2009 at 10:42 am
John Vander Borght writes:
Gary,
If it is known or virtually certain that your ball has come to rest in a water hazard (yellow stakes) or lateral water hazard (red stakes), you should proceed under Rule 26 which is the water hazard rule. As such, you can take relief from the hazard with a penalty of one stroke using one of the options described in Rule 26.
June 12th, 2009 at 11:30 am
Paul writes:
A player marks his ball on the putting green, and walks off the green a few yards onto the fairway while others chip onto the green. While he is waiting, he holds his putter in one hand, and taps his ball (which he has dropped on the turf of the fairway) repeatedly against the outside of his foot.
Paul,
We do not believe this constitutes practice as he isn’t simulating a stroke. If he was doing it on the putting green, it could be ruled to be testing the surface, but since you said he was off the green there should be no penalty.
June 18th, 2009 at 1:38 pm
Michael K writes:
Whenever I play at my home course, I’m afraid of running into this particular situation in case I might do the wrong procedure. If my ball is resting against a tree and I am forced to make a left-handed stroke (I’m right-handed) but it puts my stance on a cart path, do I get relief? Thanks a bunch
Michael,
I think we get asked this question more times than it happens. If your ball is in a position that the left-handed stroke is a legitmate option because a normal stroke would not be possible and your stance would be on the path, you would get relief. You would determine your nearest point of relief with the left-handed stroke / stance. You could then drop within one club-length. If you could then hit it right-handed you would be allowed to do so.
June 21st, 2009 at 4:45 pm
sam young writes:
during recent play a player drove his ball and landed on the cart path bridge which was crossing a laterial hasard on the right and a laterial hasard on the left Is this a free drop from the bridge or is the bridge considered part of the hasard?.
The definition of a water hazard states that it extends vertically upwards and downwards. Therefore a bridge that is over a water hazard is in the water hazard. There is no relief for an immovable obstruction in a water hazard so the player must either play the ball as it lies or proceed under Rule 26-1 – Water Hazards with the one stroke penalty found there. The player may ground his club on the bridge in attempting a shot from it.
Gene,
When they teed off on the wrong hole, they were in violation of Rule 11-5. They must discontinue play of that hole and go to the correct hole, adding a two-stroke penalty to the score of each player who played from the wrong teeing ground. Since all four of them did it, each would receive a two-stroke penalty and be hitting their third shot from the #1 tee. The ball they hit on #10 does not count in their score.
June 24th, 2009 at 2:26 pm
Gordon writes:
I recently pushed my tee shot right of a cart path and on a hillside. This hillside was primarily bare dirt and riddled with gopher holes and mounds created by these burrowing animals. We located my ball in a small hole where only the top of the ball was visible. Everyone in the group agreed I was entitled to relief due to abnormal ground conditions (rule 25) After dropping within 1 club length from the nearest point of relief, I was standing on another gopher hole.
Is it now my option to play after the drop since I took relief from the original hole and ended up with a very good lie? The others in my group said I did not take complete relief and must drop again. When I read the definition of abnormal ground conditions, it refers to hole, cast, or runway created by a burrowing animal. (singular) Do you treat each and every hole, cast or runway as separate conditions and have the option a play it as it lies and ignore your relief options?
Gordon,
The two holes are separate instances unless they are connected by a runway above the ground. Therefore, once you have taken relief from the first one, you can play the ball or take relief from the second. If the area was sufficiently large we would probably mark it as ground under repair and get the player out of all of it at once.
June 26th, 2009 at 8:51 am
Gini Auger writes:
BLIND DRAW…What does NCGA prefer? Controversy over whether the Blind Draw should be identified in a 2 bb of 4. One school: the blind draw is not identified and the hole by hole score is used. It is the responsibility of the 4 some getting the blind draw to putt out because they only have 3 players. Second school: the blind draw should be identified and that the blind draw should putt out. Third School: whether the blind draw should win as a draw, or if the blind draw can only win with the foursome it actually played with on course. IT MAY BE THAT ALL ARE CORRECT, I JUST WONDERED WHAT NCGA’S THOUGHTS MIGHT BE… IF THEY EVEN HAVE ANY…. Thank you… I’ll look for a reply in my e-mails… Gini
June 26th, 2009 at 12:01 pm
Brett Johnson writes:
While using my legal GPS during a match play tournament, my opponent stated that I was absolutely REQUIRED to provide him distances. I told him by doing so I did not want to be DQ’d by giving advice. He was so sure he was right that he was willing to forefit the entire match if he was wrong. I provided distances when ever asked. Am I required to provide my opponent distances and can he be DQ’d by insisting?
June 28th, 2009 at 11:06 am
John Vander Borght writes:
Gini,
There are no right or wrong ways to do a blind draw. Nothing in the rules cover it. The one thing I would say is that the Committee in charge of the competition can do what they want, but they should publish ahead of time so that nobody can complain after the event.
June 28th, 2009 at 8:15 pm
John Vander Borght writes:
Brett,
You are not required to give anyone else the information you get from your GPS and there is no penalty if you refuse to do so. Likewise, you are not penalized for giving the information. Distance is considered public information.
June 28th, 2009 at 8:18 pm
Scott writes:
Hello, a few questions about raking
1. A player has hit a shot from a large bunker. The shot does not get out of the bunker and remains in, but the player needs to walk quite a distance to get to his next shot. Is he allowed to rake his first shot before playing his second, or must his ball be out of the bunker before it can be raked?
2. Under the same conditions, if the player gets out of one bunker, but hits into another, is he allowed to rake?
3. A player hits a ball from a bunker potentially out of bounds. He elects to hit a provisional ball. Is he allowed to rake the bunker before he drops/hits?
Thanks.
-Scott
June 29th, 2009 at 11:21 pm
John Vander Borght writes:
Scott,
Exception 2 to Rule 13-4 reads:
“After making the stroke, if the ball is still in the hazard or has been lifted from the hazard and may be dropped or placed in the hazard, the may smooth sand or soil in the hazard provided that nothing is done to breach Rule 13-2 with respect to his next stroke. If the ball is outside the hazard after the stroke, the player may smooth sand or soil in the hazard without restriction
Therefore in regards to your questions:
1) As long as you don’t rake the area where you’ll be standing for your next stroke, around the area where the ball is at rest or along the line of play for your next stroke, you can rake the bunker.
2) No restrictions as the ball is out of the bunker you hit from. Exception 3 makes this even clearer.
3) Even though you have to drop a ball in the bunker, there is no restriction as the ball is currently out of the bunker. The only restriction is if you lifted the ball and had to place or drop it.
June 30th, 2009 at 7:05 am
John writes:
My question….What is the distance I could tee my ball behind the tee box markers
John – You have two club lengths behind the tee markers in which to tee you ball.
July 1st, 2009 at 12:00 am
anthony cascio writes:
In a “scramble” format, if one of the competitors breaks a club, may that competitor use a club from the bag of one of the other playing partners?
July 3rd, 2009 at 6:11 pm
John Vander Borght writes:
Anthony,
Rule 4-3 tells that if a player breaks a club in the “normal course of play”, he can replace it with any other club, except that the replacement can not be made by borrowing a club that has been selected for play by any other person playing the course. Therefore, he is not allowed to use the club of one of his playing partners.
July 4th, 2009 at 11:21 am
anthony cascio writes:
thanks…
also, after replacing a ball, in front of a “pegged” ball marker, on the green…as the ball marker is lifted, a tuft of grass is raised, behind the replaced ball…
is it permissible to push down the tuft to flatten the surface?
Anthony,
No, the tuft of grass may not be repaired. Decision 20-1/15.5 says that the player must accept any worsening of the lie from these actions. If the tuft was pushed down, the player would be liable for penalty under Rule 13-2.
July 7th, 2009 at 3:17 pm
Judy writes:
Our women’s 18′ers are holding our club championship. ( three day event) Can we give cash for prizes without jeopardizing anyone’s amateur status? In rule 3 on amateur status it clearly states one cannot accept cash as a prize. etc. etc.
For example: What is the difference between cash and a gift card from Macy’s or a chit from the pro shop?
Many women have stated they have played in amateur events at other clubs and cash was indeed given as a prize.
Thank you for the clarification. We want to preserve the integrity of the game and make the right decision.
Judy Wettstein
Judy,
The Rules of Amateur status prohibit cash prizes. Cash is what professionals play for. Gift Certificates may be accepted as long as they can not be converted to cash and are for a specific store such as Macy’s or the pro shop. They can not be something like an American Express certificate that could be spent anywhere. The total value of the award received by one player cannot exceed $750 for any one competition. If we or the USGA become aware of a club playing for cash, it could jeopardize the amateur standing of all the participants in the event.
July 7th, 2009 at 4:54 pm
Jim writes:
We have a local rule at our golf club that states certain people get to tee off from different tee positions. For instance, the local rule states a woman gets to tee off from the red or white tees, depending on the tournament, while all other players, men, kids, etc. must play the blue tees. I feel it is a major tenant of the game of golf that my playing competitor, in my flight, play the same course set up that I play, such as the same tees and same pins. Most other local rules have nothing to do with the sex, race, or sexual preference of a player, and I was wondering if this local rule violates any NCGA rules. I feel men and women golfers should be considered equal players, and their play should be adjusted based on handicap, not the players sex. Is there anything that can be done?
July 8th, 2009 at 11:21 am
Jim Cowan writes:
Jim, thank you for your comment. Your club is conducting your tournaments in a fine, even admirable way. Men and women golfers are NOT considered equal within the Handicap System. A 5-handicap man is a superior player to a 5-handicap woman. Think about what that 5-handicap means. In the simpliest terms it means that the upper half of a golfer’s scores are averaging around five strokes above the Course Rating of the tees that were played. And the Course Rating System recognizes a difference in the playing ability of men versus women. Specifically, that men tend to be stronger than women. That they tend to hit the ball longer and tend to escape deep rough and deep bunkers better than their female counterparts. The end product is that from just about any set of tees, the Men’s ratings will be lower than the Women’s. Here at Poppy Hills from the White tees, for example, the Men’s Course Rating is a full five stroke lower than the Women’s. So if a man and woman shot twenty identical scores from those tees, the man would wind up with a handicap about five strokes higher than the woman. By your club designating certain tees for men and women, they are attempting to have all contestants play from tees that are of comparable difficulty for their gender with similar Course Ratings. And if the ratings do not match up exactly, there is even an adjustment that will further level the playing field. I hope this answers your question, thanks again – Jim Cowan
July 8th, 2009 at 5:39 pm
Steve Goldman writes:
I know that if a ball is hit into a later hazard, it may be played from the opposite side of the hazard within two club lengths from a point equidistant from the pin to the original point of entry. Can it also be played on a line extending backward from the pin through that equidistant point? Thanks.
No, the only line that can be extended is the one from the point where the ball crossed. You can not go back on a line from the point on the opposite margin.
July 9th, 2009 at 12:50 pm
San Young writes:
While figuring scores for a handy cap the procedure states enter your adjusted score if you don’t have a handy cap what is the Max.score you can take on any hole?.Thanks Sam
Sam,
For the purpose of applying Equitable Stroke Control, a player who has not yet established a handicap should determine their course handicap using 36.4 as the base index. If the course handicap comes out to 30-39, the maximum score they could post is 9. If it comes out over 40, it would be 10. This “handicap” is only for the purposes of posting scores and not to be used as a handicap in a competition.
July 10th, 2009 at 8:22 am
Roland Poirier writes:
When an ameteur plays a scramble formatted tournament and wins, can he disberse his winning among his other teammates in order to keep his ameteur status?
Roland,
If a player wins any cash or anything that it readily convertable to cash, he loses his amateur status regardless of how much it is or who he shares it with. If he wins gift certficates that exceed $750 he would also lose his amateur status. If it was a hole-in-one prize, he could keep it with no loss of status.
July 14th, 2009 at 10:26 am
Dan writes:
Yesterday, a player in my group stumbled and fell on his hands and knees while entering a bunker. (No injury except to his pride.) The fall took place several feet away from his ball, and Exception 1 to 13-4 says no penalty for touching the sand in such a situation, but what if he had stumbled and fallen such that the ball moved or the area of stance had been changed or if the lie of the ball had been altered? Is there still a penalty for moving the ball? (Usually the rules do not condone clumsiness), and can he restore the condition of the bunker to what it was before the fall?
Dan,
You are correct that Exception 1 absolves the player from penalty for touching the sand as a result of or to prevent falling. But, it also says “Provided nothing is done that … improves the lie of the ball”
Therefore, if he has improved the lie of his ball, he would still be penalized. If the ball is moved, he would be penalized under Rule 18-2a. If the ball moved, it would be replaced and the lie recreated (Rule 20-3b(iii)). Nothing else can be restored.
July 16th, 2009 at 8:20 am
Dan writes:
I know the governing bodies responsible for writing the rules of golf carefully choose the vocabulary of the rules, and they are written to be as unambiguous as possible, which brings me to the wording of the rule you quote above: “Provided nothing is done that…improves the lie of the ball.” Is there any room for argument such that a penalty would not be imposed if the lie of the ball is worsened? The same wording is used in Rule 12 and probably elsewhere. “Improved” does lend itself to a certain level of interpretation. Does the word “improved” really mean changed?
Dan,
The rule is very specifically worded and you are right that there is no penalty for making your lie, area of intended swing or stance worse. Decision 13-2/29 says “If a player worsens the lie of his ball, the area of his intended stance or swing, his line of play or a reasonable extension of that line beyond the hole, or the area in which he is to drop or place a ball, he is not entitled to restore that area to its original condition. If he does so, he is in breach of Rule 13-2.” Notice that there is no penalty until one attempts to restore things.
There is a level of interpretation required in determining an action has improved one of the items above. Decision 13-2/22 talks about this in regards to knocking leaves off a tree with a practice swing.
July 17th, 2009 at 9:06 am
Jeff writes:
In a 4 ball match, our two opponents had holed out on a par 3 in 4 strokes. I was lying three about 4 feet from the hole and my partner was about 20 feet from the hole putting for a birdie. My ball was between his ball and the hole, but not necessarily “through the line”. I holed out my putt for a 4 while my partner watched, placed his ball and lined up his putt. Although he was behind me and watching my putt, he wasn’t offering any assistance, and I wasn’t even aware of his location on the hole at the time. Our opponents claimed this was a violation of Rule 14-2b although they thought the rule applied to my partner gaining a possible advantage because he could see the way my putt broke, not because I was getting advice from him. What would you rule?
July 19th, 2009 at 12:40 pm
James writes:
Is it ok to practice putt on a hole after the hole is completed during tournament strole play competition ?
July 21st, 2009 at 8:51 am
Jeff writes:
If a player hits a shot that strikes his equipment, there is a penalty. My question is does it matter if the equipment is out of bounds?
James,
Unless the Committee has declared that the condition of the competition prohibiting practice on or near the previous green, you may practice as allowed in Rule 7-2. But, you may not delay play in doing so. The PGA Tour does use that condition in stroke play events which is why you do not see players practicing most weeks. The USGA does not which means that players can practice at events such as the US Open.
Vince,
There is no penalty as long as the ball does not strike the flagstick. Decision 17-1/5 covers this.
July 23rd, 2009 at 9:42 am
Scott writes:
John, in regard to 17-1/5, does the rule allow the flagstick be resting on the green, or does the player have to hold the flagstick off the ground while putting? Alternatively, can a player lean the flagstick on himself while putting?
As well, I have a question regarding Rule 7. If a facility has three 9-hole courses (A, B and C) and a tournament is scheduled to be played on A&B, is a player allowed to play or practice on C prior to a stroke-play tournament? Also, would he be disqualified if the tournament was changed to A&C prior to the start but without the player’s knowledge?
July 28th, 2009 at 2:40 pm
Phillip Sexton writes:
Under rule 25 is a player allowed relief if his ball is outside the “ground under repair” markings, but his stance is in GUR.
Scott,
The flagstick can be held off the ground or touching as long as it does not indicate a line for putting. There would be no problem with the player leaning it against himself.
As long as all of course C was out of bounds with respect to A and B, there would be no problem. If it was possible to hit a ball from a hole on A or B onto C from where it could be played, the player could not practice on C on the day of the event. If the Committee had published that the tournament would be played on A & B and then changed it to A & C, I would not disqualify the player if it was unreasonable for him to have learned of the change. The Committee should make sure that nobody accidentally played C.
Phil,
Rule 25 gives relief for interference with the lie of the ball, the area of intended swing or the player’s stance. Therefore, you would get relief from GUR if your stance was inside the area.
July 30th, 2009 at 9:32 am
Taylor Chen writes:
What happens when my ball is carried away by a bird, yes a bird?
Taylor,
The bird is an outside agency.
If your ball was at rest, under Rule 18-1, you would place a ball on the spot from which it was removed. If the exact location was not known, you would estimate the spot and drop a ball there, unless it was on the putting green in which case you would place the ball on that spot.
If your ball was in motion, under Rule 19-1, you would drop a ball as near as possible to where the ball was when it was picked up. Again, if it was on the green from a stroke off the green, you would place a ball on that spot. If it was on the green and in motion from a stroke on the putting green, you would cancel and replay the stroke.
There is no penalty.
July 30th, 2009 at 10:32 am
wendell smith writes:
I have a 9.7 index. What is the max score I can take on a par 3,4,5? Thanks
Wendell – You first have to convert your index to a course handicap. Your index, unfortunately, is right on the borderline. I would think you would mostly play to 10 strokes or higher, in which case your max score on a hole is a 7, regardless if its a par three, four or five. If, however, your course handicap is a 9, on an easier course, then you can only post a double bogey, so a 5, 6 or 7.
July 30th, 2009 at 4:09 pm
robert writes:
Is it legal to use an electronic measuring device, such as a GPS unit, during play?
Robert,
It is against Rule 14-3 to use a GPS or other electronic measuring device unless the course, or in the case of a tournament, the Committee in charge of the tournament, has implemented the local rule allowing the use of them as stated in the Note to Rule 14-3. Even then, the electronic measuring device can only measure distance and not have other functions that measure things like wind speed or the elevation difference between locations.
July 31st, 2009 at 8:12 am
Drew writes:
In a 4-ball match play competition, a dispute arose in the scoring area. Player A insisted she had a 3 on a hole; player C, the marker, says the score was a 4. Player B (A’s partner) agreed with A; player D agreed with C. No other players or spectators were available to add information. It was a classic “he said, she said” situation. The 3 wins the hole for A/B; a 4 for A is a half. Quoting Dec. 34-3/4 as “the weight of the evidence did not favor either competitor the benefit of the doubt should be given to A.” (Which seems correct to me). What should the committee do? Would flipping a coin be a good committee decision? If one side said, “no matter what, the end result of the match will be the same,” could the committee sidestep making a decision?
Drew,
If the players have agreed that the match is over and that one side has won, it is too late to make any claims unless they were based on previously unknown facts and the Committee is satisfied that the opponent knew she was giving wrong information. This does not appear to be the case so the match stands as played. If the players agree that one side won the match or if the players on the other side conceded the match before raising this issue there is nothing that can be done.
It is for reasons such as this that players in match play should ALWAYS determine the scores at the end of EVERY hole so that there is no confusion and claims can be made in a timely fashion.
July 31st, 2009 at 4:22 pm
Drew writes:
Thank you. What should the committee have done if the players were unwilling to agree who won the match? Or what should the committee decide in stroke play? Is 34-3/4 a guide in such a dispute situation?
The Committee should determine the facts of the situation and rule as best as it can. If the dispute is over the score of a particular player, they should interogate everyone who has knowledge. In the abscence of any compelling evidence to the contrary, the score as reported by the player who’s score is in question will probably be accepted. Decision 34-3/9 is a good guide as to what to do.
Also, Decision 34-3/5 states that if it is impossible to determine the state of the match, the Committee should act in the most equitable way which may mean having the match replayed.
July 31st, 2009 at 5:05 pm
Tony writes:
During the Senior Open, I watched a well-known golfer(aren’t they all well known on the Senior Tour?)walk into a sand bunker, in a cirle around his ball, and check the lie of his ball in conjunction with the line to the flag/green, then walked back out to look at the slope (?) of the green in relation to the flag. He then walked back into the bunker, around his ball, with his club and proceeded to hit the ball. My question is; why was he not penalized, as it was quite apparent that he was testing the consistency of the sand ? No one called him on it. I’ve seen this occur many times on the regular PGA tour, also, and the on the LPGA, and Nike Tours. Again, it’s quite clear they are disguising the true intent (testing consistency).
August 1st, 2009 at 1:08 am
Tony writes:
I’ve seen many pros address the ball with a putter, ground the club, then due to outside influence, or change of mind, back off from the ball, take a second or third look at the line, then re-address the ball before putting. Violation ?
August 1st, 2009 at 1:13 am
Tony writes:
Please explain the difference between an “embedded ball” and “plugged ball” as this was a cause of controversy because an embedded ball can be moved, but, a plugged ball cannot.
Tony,
A player may address the ball and then back away at anytime without penalty. But, the player is taking the risk that if the ball were to move for any reason after he has addressed it, he would be penalized one stroke under Rule 18-2b and must replace the ball. Once addressed, the only way to “unaddress” the ball would be to mark and lift it as allowed within the rules.
Decision 13-4/0.5 covers testing the condition of the hazard. Walking around in the bunker and, starting in 2008, digging ones feet into the sand away from the ball is allowed.
To quote the decision:”Examples of actions that would not constitute testing the condition of the hazard include the following:
• digging in with the feet for a stance, including for a practice swing, anywhere in the hazard or in a similar hazard;”
August 1st, 2009 at 1:25 am
scott writes:
What would happen if you dropped a ball on a slope following the cart path rule, and falls in a water hazard?
August 1st, 2009 at 9:33 am
scott writes:
What would happen if you dropped a ball on a slope following the cart path rule, and goes onto the green and rolls into the hole? If that was for your second shot, do you get a hole-in-one?
Scott,
Rule 20-2c states that a ball must be redropped if it rolls into and comes to rest in a hazard. If the ball were to roll into it again on a second drop you would place it where it first struck the course on the second drop.
Also in taking relief from a ball on a cart path that is through the green, the ball must be dropped through the green and not in a hazard.
Scott,
A ball which is dropped off the green and rolls onto the putting green must be redropped under Rule 20-2c.
August 1st, 2009 at 9:54 am
Brian Lomeli writes:
In a recent Match Play match at our club, one competitor hit his ball in an area where there were a number of “repaired” burrowing animal holes. It looked as if our superintendent had tried to fill in these holes with dirt. The competitor’s ball came to rest in a filled in hole to where there was still an impression in the ground, but there was dirt under his ball (looked like a “fried egg” in a bunker, but this as on dirt). Does the competitor get free relief under Abnormal Ground Conditions in this instance. After the competitor made two good whacks at it, the ball finally broke through the filled in dirt and we saw the burrowing animal hole.
Tony,
An “embedded ball” is one which is come to rest in its own pitch mark. There is no term “plugged ball” in the rules of golf so I’m not sure what you mean and how it differs from an embedded ball. Under Rule 25-2, a ball which is embedded in its own pitch mark in a closely mown area through the green may be lifted, cleaned and dropped as near as possible but no nearer the hole. There is a local rule, which all organizations in the United States use which extends this relief to a ball that is embedded anywhere through the green except for a ball embedded in sand in the rough. There is no penalty for taking this relief.
Brian,
A burrowing animal hole that has been filled with dirt is not, per se, ground under repair, but there would be no problem with the Committee declaring it as such if they desired. Before playing stroke, if in stroke play, the player should have played two balls under Rule 3-3. Since you said it was in match play, if he and his opponent had agreed that it was ground under repair before he made a stroke he could have taken relief. Once he had made a stroke, he could still get relief, but the stroke(s) taken would count.
August 3rd, 2009 at 11:06 am
Aidan writes:
During a 2 man, best ball match, Player A of team 1 putted out for a par. Player C of team 2 has a 10 foot putt for par. Player A thought Player C was putting for bogey and conceded the putt. Player B of team 1 said, “Stop. He’s putting for bogey.” Player C hasn’t lifted the ball marker yet. His partner, player D, insists that the putt was already conceded by player A and the hole should be halved. What’s the proper ruling?
August 4th, 2009 at 9:42 am
Aidan writes:
Edit for post above:
Player B of team 1 said, “He’s putting for Parr. Don’t concede yet.”
Aidan, Player D is correct. A concession can not be refused or retracted (See Rule 2-4). Therefore once A gave the putt the hole was halved.
August 4th, 2009 at 9:50 am
Tony Huang writes:
I sometimes lie down on the green to read putts, with my entire body and hands touching the putting surface. I’ve been told many times by my playing partners that what I did was against the rule, that no part of the golfer’s body is allowed to touch the green except fingers. Often people cite Camillo Villegas as evidence, as Camillo hovers above putting surface withouth making contact with his body. By intuition I am confident I am right, as I’ve seen professional golfers did exactly the same thing as I did during competition. Please help.
Tony, as long as you not doing something to test the surface such as rubbing your hand on the green or touching your line of putt for any reason other than the ones specified in Rule 16-1a, you are allowed to put your hand on the green. Decision 16-1d/4 confirms that you may touch the putting green for other reasons.
August 5th, 2009 at 1:11 pm
Gordon writes:
In stroke play, your opponent hits into the sand, in the face of the trap. Only a small portion of the ball is visible. Saying he needs to identify his ball as to not get a penalty forplaying the wrong ball, he gently brushes the sand away above the ball until he can see it is in fact his ball. Is that acceptable, or has he improved his lie?
Gordon,
Rule 12 covers searching and identifying a ball.
While searching for his ball, the player is proceeding under Rule 12-1. Rule 12-1 says that when searching for a ball in a bunker, the player may remove sand until he can see a small portion of the ball. If he removes too much sand, he must recreate the lie until only a small portion is visible.
Once a ball has been found, if he chooses to identify it, he is proceeding under Rule 12-2 and must follow the proper procedure outlined there. This procedure requires him to announce his intention to lift the ball to a fellow competitor or opponent, give that player the opportunity to observe, mark the ball and lift it from the sand. If it is his ball he must replace it and recreate the lie to the point where a small portion is still visible.
If it is his ball and he fails to follow this procedure, he is penalized one stroke. If he fails to replace his ball (including properly recreating the lie) he is penalized two strokes in stroke play or loses the hole in match play.
August 6th, 2009 at 10:45 am
dave writes:
can a player’s caddie use his own personal putter to read putts for his player? Would it matter how many clubs his player carries? Woyuld the caddies putter count towards his players 14 clubs?
Dave,
If a caddie is carrying the clubs, they are considered to be the players clubs. Therefore the putter would be one of the 14 the player was allowed.
August 8th, 2009 at 3:51 pm
jose cruz writes:
what is the proper proceedure for a drop when a ball is in a burroughing animal hole. i was playing a match with a fellow member and upon finding his ball in a hole, he picked up his ball and proceeded to take a drop without marking his nearest point of relief. i went ahead and called him out on a breach of proceedure. was i wrong?
Jose,
The procedure for determining the nearest point of relief and the one club-length area within which the ball must be dropped is recommended, but not required. As long as the ball is dropped on a spot which meets the requirements and is played from a spot which would not require a re-drop the player is ok. If you have doubts about where the player dropped, you should raise them before he plays as he could correct any errors without penalty at that point by following procedure and determining if he was ok or not. Once he has played, you could still call him on it, but he would be penalized if he had dropped in an incorrect place or played from an wrong place.
August 10th, 2009 at 7:54 am
Jack Wholey writes:
I hit a drive (Franklin Canyon #10) toward a water hazard (a pond) but trees blocked sight of the ball’s flight. No one in the foursome could tell if the ball landed in the hazard, or cleared it. I declared that I was going to hit a provisional ball, and began teeing the ball within the tee box. The group behind me (who are other members of our club) informed me that I couldn’t use a tee. I proceeded to hit without a tee, and eventually my first drive was “lost”.
Two questions: 1. Was I entitled to use a tee under Rule 20-5? 2. Was I entitled to play a provisional ball under Rule 27-2?
I’m not sure I understand Rule 27-2. If a ball MAY be lost in a water hazard, then at the same time, the ball MAY be lost outside of the water hazard. From this tee box, there was no virtual certainty whether the ball was in the water hazard, or if it was really lost at all.
Jack,
1) Rule 20-5 is the rule which specifies what to do when playing from a previous spot. It states that if the ball to be played must be played from the teeing ground, you may play it from anywhere with the teeing ground and it MAY be teed. Therefore the other group was wrong
2)If the only place a ball may be lost is a water hazard you may not hit a provisional, but if there is a possibility of it being lost somewhere else, you are entitled to hit the provisional. At that point, you would have to establish with virtual certainty that the ball was in the hazard before you could proceed under one of the options of the water hazard rule. Without that virtual certainty your original ball would be lost and you would continue with the provisional. If you do determine that you have virtual certainty, you would abandon the provisional and proceed under Rule 26.
August 10th, 2009 at 3:13 pm
Drew writes:
A player hits his tee shot into a maintenance yard. Thinking the ball is OB he hits again from the tee. When he gets to his second ball, he sees a sign that says that the maintenance yard is actually an obstruction area so he would be allowed a free drop with his first ball. Is it accurate that as he did not proclaim his second ball a provisional the second ball is now his ball in play and the first ball must be abandoned? Do the rules allow for ignorance of local rules?
Drew,
When the player played the second ball from the tee without declaring it a provisional, it became his ball in play under Stroke and Distance (Rule 27-1). He is laying 3 with that ball and must abandon the original ball. Rule 6-1 states that the player is responsible for knowing all the Rules including local Rules.
August 13th, 2009 at 10:07 am
Buzz Ford writes:
1 There is a latteral water hazard running down the right side of a fairway and to the right of the water hazard is out of bounds. My question is. What is the ruling if the tee shot lands out of bounds right and then rolls back into the water hazard? What are my options.
August 16th, 2009 at 8:26 am
johnv writes:
Buzz,
Your ball is deemed to have entered the hazard at the point where it cross from out of bounds into the hazard. There are usually 4 options on where to drop for a ball in lateral hazard. In this only 2 are available. You could go back to the tee and replay from there with a one stroke penalty, or you could find the spot on the opposite margin of the hazard from the point it entered the hazard that is the same distance from the hole and drop within two club-lengths of that point, no nearer the hole with a one stroke penalty. This is one of the times when the final option for lateral hazards of going to the opposite margin is most useful.
August 16th, 2009 at 8:22 pm
Aurora writes:
I was pitching my ball on to the green and one of the players was already on and had not marked her ball. My ball struck hers and I was penalized 2 strokes. This doesn’t seem right to me?
Aurora,
You should not have been penalized. The only time you are penalized for hitting another ball is if both balls started on the putting green in stroke play(Rule 19-5). Since your ball was off the green when you hit it, there is not penalty for your ball colliding with another ball. If you were playing match play, there is never a penalty under Rule 19-5.
August 18th, 2009 at 9:13 am
Mike writes:
A player hits his shot into a gtrrnside bunker and throws his club. The club goes into the bunker with the ball. He picked up the club and threw it out of the bunker and used another club to hit his shot out of the bunker. What is the ruling?
Mike,
Since Rule 13-4 allows a player to place his clubs in the sand as long as he isn’t testing the hazard, there is no penalty as long as the player did not have the club in his hand when it made contact with the sand, it did not move the ball and there was no improvement of the area of intended swing, his stance or the line of play for the next shot.
August 18th, 2009 at 3:22 pm
Raul writes:
I am confused on a ruling because I get different answers to this question regarding 26-1/3.5. A player drops a ball under 26-1b because he is virtually certain his ball is in a water hazard. After dropping the ball, he finds his original ball outside the hazard.
USGA states the you still play the drop ball and add another stroke if you find the original ball. This is a though one. What is the ruling and how many stroke do I incur including the lateral drop.
Raul,
Since it was virtually certain that the ball was in the water hazard, once you have dropped another ball under Rule 26, your original ball is lost. When it is found, regardless of where it was, you can not play it. It is highly unlikely that a ball that was virtually certain to be in the hazard would be found outside it, but it does occasionally happen. In this case, you would receive a total of 1 penalty stroke under Rule 26 regardless of where the ball was found.
August 19th, 2009 at 8:25 am
Raul writes:
Follow up question to the answer from John Vander Borght August 19th, 2009 at 8:25am:
So, you do not receive an extra penalty stoke when finding the original ball? And, how do you determine “known and virtually certain”?
Raul,
As long as the player was “virtually certain” that the ball was in the water hazard, he has proceeded correctly under Rule 26 so there is no additional penalty when the ball is found. If there was a lack of virtual certainty, he could not use Rule 26 and should have used Rule 27 – Lost Ball and returned to where he hit the previous shot with a one-shot penalty.
The meaning of “virtually certain” is contained in Decision 26-1/1. It reads:
If a ball has been struck towards a water hazard and has not been found, the term “known or virtually certain” indicates the level of confidence that the ball is in the water hazard that is required for the player to proceed under Rule 26-1. A player may not assume that his ball is in a water hazard simply because there is a possibility that the ball may be in the hazard. If it is not known that the ball is in the water hazard, in order for the player to proceed under Rule 26-1 there must be almost no doubt that the ball is in the hazard. Otherwise, a ball that cannot be found must be considered lost outside the hazard and the player must proceed under Rule 27-1.
All available evidence must be taken into account in determining whether knowledge or virtual certainty exists, including any testimony and the physical conditions in the area around the water hazard. For example, if a water hazard is surrounded by a fairway on which a ball could hardly be lost, there exists a greater certainty that the ball is in the hazard than there would be if there were deep rough in the area. Observing a ball splash in a water hazard would not necessarily provide knowledge or virtual certainty as to the location of the ball as sometimes such a ball may skip out of a hazard.
The same principle would apply for a ball that may have been moved by an outside agency (Rule 18-1) or a ball that has not been found and may be in an obstruction (Rule 24-3) or an abnormal ground condition
August 20th, 2009 at 10:28 am
peter sikora jr writes:
Lateral water hazard.
Do you have to be able to see the hole/green in order to bring the ball back as far as you want from the point of entry.
Peter,
No, you do not have to be able to see the hooe, but you need to make your very best estimate of the position of the hole when determining how to drop under option 26-1b.
August 21st, 2009 at 2:35 pm
Dennis writes:
John,
I love the service provided by “Stump the Rules Wizard” but wonder if readers should impose a penalty to the Wizard under 3.2 for failing to hole out. In order to see the current posting we’re required to scroll down past months of rulings. Would it be possible for the Committee to do some computer magic under 1.4 (equity) and reverse the order of the postings so the most recent post is the first listed? Perhaps you could impose 16-1b and mark, lift, clean and replace the postings most recent to oldest…thanks for the great column. :)
Dennis – While we can reverse the order, that would make every question and answer read as if it were an answer then a question. So while the current format does require an extra few seconds of scrolling, it does preserve a much easier set-up. Thank for contributing.
August 21st, 2009 at 9:17 pm
John M. Pratt writes:
a player hits his ball to the green and it lands in the fringe and leaves a ball mark, His ball stops in the fringe and the ball mark ( in the fringe)is in his intended line of play. Can he repair the ball mark before his nest shot.
Also same situatioin only his ball stays in the in ;the ball mark, he get a free drop, embedded ball, can he repair his ball mark before he makes his drop.
Thanks
John,
The ball mark may not be repaired if it is off the green and is near or on the player’s line of play. Once the shot is played, you should repair it.
August 22nd, 2009 at 7:22 am
Shaun Slaugenhaupt writes:
A player hits his ball and the ball strikes a no cart sign that is placed in front of green. Since these signs are placed in different locations everyday does the player re hit or play it as it lies
Shaun,
This is an example of “Rub of the Green” which is when a ball in motion is deflected by an outside agency. There is no relief and the ball shall be played as it lies. Of course, if everyone abandoned their golf carts and started walking the course, we could get rid of the signs, but don’t get me started on that.
August 23rd, 2009 at 4:56 am
Sharlene Neal writes:
Played in a tournament this morning with a gentlemen who proceeded to dig a hole in soft dirt behind his ball where it laid. His ball did not move. What is the ruling on this? Can you really dig a big trench behind your ball?
Sharlene,
A player may not improve his lie by removing dirt, sand or loose soil through the green. By doing so, he is subject to a 2-stroke penalty in stroke play or loss of hole in match play. Loose impediments such as gravel or rocks could be moved.
August 25th, 2009 at 9:44 am
Aurora writes:
Is there a reason no one answered my question?
Aurora writes:
I was pitching my ball on to the green and one of the players was already on and had not marked her ball. My ball struck hers and I was penalized 2 strokes. This doesn’t seem right to me?
Aurora,
Your question was answered on August 18. Here is the answer again:
You should not have been penalized. The only time you are penalized for hitting another ball is if both balls started on the putting green in stroke play(Rule 19-5). Since your ball was off the green when you hit it, there is not penalty for your ball colliding with another ball. If you were playing match play, there is never a penalty under Rule 19-5.
August 26th, 2009 at 9:40 am
Alan Shaw writes:
During a tournament, or any round for that matter, can a player use a training aid, such as a 2 foot long weighted shaft, in the middle of the round?
Alan,
The use of a training aid during the is against the rules. Decision 14-3/10 covers this. The penalty is disqualification. Here is the decision:
Q. During a round, may a player make a stroke or a practice swing using a club with a weighted headcover or “donut” on it, or use any other device designed as a training or swing aid?
A. No. The player would be using an artificial device to assist him in his play in breach of Rule 14-3, but see also Decision 4-4a/7 for use of a weighted training club. (Revised)
August 27th, 2009 at 4:10 am
Steve Carniglia writes:
Upon entering a sand trap, is there a penalty for taking a rake with you and dropping it in the trap near your ball prior to hitting your ball?
Steve,
There is no penalty as long as you do not test the hazard when you put it down. Decision 13-4/0.5 specifically states “Examples of actions that would not constitute testing the condition of the hazard include the following:
… placing an object such as clubs or a rake in the hazard”
August 28th, 2009 at 8:20 am
gregg bargas 1196360 writes:
In match play, a singles match involving player A vs. player B. Player A has a caddie for the duration of the match(same caddie). Player B does not. A third player, player C, his apponent is a no show. Player plays 10 holes with no apponent and wins match. At the 11th hole, can player C caddie for Player B? Thanks for your time, Gregg Bargas
Gregg,
I assume the Player who played 10 holes is Player C. It doesn’t matter if he plays any holes. He won the match when the other player didn’t show up on time for the match.
Can he caddie for B? Only if he is not playing. A person can not caddie and play at the same time.
August 31st, 2009 at 7:47 pm
Dennis writes:
In stroke play, Player A finds his ball 1-2 feet from fence which is part of Out of Bounce markings. Player A cannot take a stance to strike the ball. Does he get free relief because the fence interferes with his swing, or must he call it “Unplayable Ball” and take a 2 club ball drop with a penalty?
Dennis,
By the definition of an obstruction, any object defining out of bounds is not considered an obstruction from which free relief is granted under Rule 24. Therefore, the player must either play the ball or declare it unplayable and proceed under one of the three options of the unplayable rule with a penalty of one stroke. The options are 1) Return to where he made his last stroke from; 2) Drop behind where the ball lies keeping that point directly on the line between the flag and where he drops; 3) Drop within two club-lengths of the current lccation of the ball, no closer to the hole. There may be times such as the one you describe where option 2 is not possible. This is the same for both stroke play and match play.
September 4th, 2009 at 8:15 am
David V writes:
I have heard the following from two different sources. Is it correct?
A player thinks they’ve hit there tee ball into a lateral hazard. The player drops, hits his 3rd shot, then walks towards the green and finds his original tee ball. The players is allowed to play his original tee ball without penalty BECAUSE IT IS CLOSER TO THE HOLE THAN THE BALL HE DROPPED.
David,
No, depending on the situation the original ball is lost when the new ball is dropped or played.
If it was known or virtually certain that the ball was in the water hazard, the original is lost when the new ball is dropped under the water hazard rule (Rule 26-1 and definition of a lost ball).
If it was not known or virtually certain, the original ball is not lost when the ball is dropped under Rule 26-1 as that Rule can not be used in this case. If the ball was found inside 5 minutes and before the other ball was played he could continue with the original using Rule 20-6. But, once the ball has been played, the original is lost. At that point, the player would have to correct his play under Rule 27 (Lost Ball) and return to the tee with a stroke and distance penalty and a 2 stroke penalty for playing from a wrong place.
There are a number of decisions which cover all these possibilities: Decisions 26-1/3, 26-1/3.5, 26-1/3.7, 26-1/4.
September 5th, 2009 at 7:44 am
Robert Guevara writes:
If player 1 hits his ball on the green let’s say 2 feet from pin but player 2 hits his shot and it moves player 1 ball back to 5 feet. Where does player 1 ball get marked??
Robert,
When a ball at rest is moved by another ball, it is always replaced on the spot where it was before being moved. If the spot is not known exactly, the location should be estimated. If the ball was on the putting green, it would be placed at the estimated spot. If it was off the green it would dropped as near as possible to that spot, but not nearer the hole.
September 8th, 2009 at 8:03 am
Drew writes:
A player hits his ball into deep rough. He spots a ball, looks at it, decides it is not his ball, picks it up and continues to look for his original ball. After a few moments (still within the five minute search time) he realizes the ball he picked up is indeed his ball. (He wasn’t wearing his glasses, I guess). There is a one stroke penalty for lifting his ball without marking it first as he should have done in order to identify his ball. As he has walked around a bit after picking it up, the best he can do is estimate where the ball was located when he picked it up . If he estimates the spot, places the ball in a lie as close as possible to what it was in before he picked it up, is the one stroke penalty the only penalty?
Drew,
The player is penalized one stroke under Rule 18-2a for lifting his ball in play. He is required to replace the ball. Since he does not know the exact spot, Note 3 in Rule 18 tells us that he should see Rule 20-3c. Rule 20-3c tells us that if it is impossible to determine the place where the ball is to be placed, throught the green it should be dropped as near as possible to the estimated spot, but not nearer the hole, in a hazard or on a putting green. If he has not yet played the ball, he can correct his error of placing the ball under Rule 20-6.
Once he has played it, Decision 18-2a/21.5 tells us he receives the general penalty under Rule 18 which is a total of two strokes in stroke play or loss of hole in match play.
September 10th, 2009 at 8:12 am
David M writes:
Greetings… This question is more about “when” a particular rule changed. I was recently watching the golf channel which had some old Masters highlights dating back to probably sometime in the 60′s. I noticed that when one of the players was dropping a ball, the pro dropped the ball over his shoulder (behind his back) blindly. It actually looks quite humorous by today’s standards! To me, it’s clear that dropping in the “old version” disallowed the player from trying to find a decent grassy drop area, but I’m guessing too many balls hit themselves on the “reverse drop” causing delays? I’m curious – when did this obscure rule change & why? Thanks! David
September 11th, 2009 at 4:27 pm
Dan writes:
Here’s a start to answering your question. Below are two quotes from the Rules of Golf, 1980 and 1984, which tell us when the rule changed. The why answer will come from one of the Rules Wizards:
1980:
Rule 22. Lifting, Dropping and Placing.
2. Dropping . How to Drop- A ball to be dropped under the Rules or Local Rules shall be dropped by the player himself. He shall face the hole, stand erect, and drop the ball behind him over his shoulder. If a ball be dropped in any other manner and remain the ball in play (Def. 5), the player shall incur a penalty stroke.
1984:
20-2. Dropping and Re-Dropping
a. By Whom and How- A ball to be dropped under the Rules shall be dropped by the player himself. He shall stand erect, hold the ball at shoulder height and arm’s length and drop it. If a ball is dropped by any other person or in any other manner and the error is not corrected as provided in Rule 20-6, the player shall incur a penalty stroke.
David,
As Dan pointed out, the rule changed with the 1984 rules revision. The old style of dropping was to prevent a player from being able to drop in certain spot, but it was deemed unneccesary and was changed to speed up play by eliminating the need for redrops when the ball struck the player.
September 14th, 2009 at 10:13 am
Ronald L. Cappadona writes:
During a recent Club Tournament it was discovered that one of the players in a foursome had what is known to be a “Practice Club” in his bag, bringing his total club count to 15. Is there a penalty for having this “Practice Club” in the bag and if so is it the maximum of 4 Strokes as covered under Rule 4-4. Also his playing partners discovered this on about the 12th hole of the round and never brought this to his attention. After the conclusion of play the player with the 15 Clubs heard (not from his playing partners but by word of mouth) that he might be in violation of the 14 Club Rule. He immediately came forth with this information to the Tournament Committee (which was already aware of the situation) and indicated that the additional club was a “PRACTICE DEVICE/CLUB” and was not used or intended to be used during the tournament. The score card was not yet finalized and the tournament committee agreed to delay a decision until consulting with the NCGA for a formal ruling.
Also, Is there any rule “requiring” the playing partners to notify him of the possible rule infraction, and if they do not notify him can any penalty be accessed to him if the tournament committee is aware but not formally asked to investigate the infraction.
Since the training aid was not used, there is no penalty under Rule 14-3.
As to its being a 15th club, the answer depends on whether the aid meets the definition of a golf club. A club is designed for striking the ball. If the training aid is designed for striking the ball, he is subject to penalty.
If not, he would not.
If the training aid then met the full specification of a golf club it would be a 15th club and he would be penalized under Rule 4-4. If it did not meet the specification (say it had a shaft which hinged such as a Medicus), he would be penalized under Rule 4-1. In either case since he didn’t use it, it would be a total of 4 strokes in penalties applied as 2 strokes on each of the first two holes he played.
Given that he found out about the problem before his score card was returned, the fellow competitors probably should not be penalized. If they had purposely allowed him to return a card without applying a penalty that they knew he had committed, they should also be disqualified under Rule 33-7 as is covered by Decision 6-6a/5.
If the Committee was aware of the problem before he brought it to them, I would hope that they would have discussed it with him before allowing him to return his card.
September 14th, 2009 at 1:16 pm
Lois Butler writes:
Playing the Club Championship tournament, a player did not verify their score hole for hole with the scorer. They just signed the card without verifying if the score was correct. Is there a penalty against that player?
September 14th, 2009 at 5:46 pm
John Vander Borght writes:
Lois,
There is no problem as long as hole-by-hole scores are correct. A player isn’t required to verify it. Her signature is all the verification that is required. But, if there is an incorrect score on the card, she must pay the price. If she signs for a score on a hole which is lower than she made, she is disqualified. If she signs for a score that is too high, she will get that score. The player should always check the hole-by-hole scores and make sure that she and her marker have signed the card.
September 15th, 2009 at 7:07 am
Carrie writes:
Hi, when playing in a medal a player plays offthe wrong tee then realises his mistake then plays from the correct tee what is the ruling for it?
Carrie,
The penalty for playing from a wrong tee in a stroke play event is a two-stroke penalty and it must be corrected before the player plays from the next tee. If he fails to correct it before teeing off on the next hole, he would be disqualified.
In match play, there is no penalty, but his opponent could recall the shot immediately and make him play from the correct tee.
September 15th, 2009 at 10:06 am
Don Young writes:
Here is my situation. I am in the rough, very tall rough. As I take a stance, a sprinkler is in my stance. When taking relief from the sprinkler can I take relief in different terrain? Such as fairway, if that is the nearest point of relief. Thank You in advance.
September 17th, 2009 at 12:44 pm
Robin writes:
My friend tee’d off across a yellow water hazard barranca at Stanford Hole #12. She was right behind a small tree but cleared the hazard by 50 yards. On her next shot her ball hit the tree and bounced backwards into the Yellow staked hazard 50 yards behind her.
Her options: 1. go in the hazard and find the ball- NO
2. stroke and dist: drop another from the
spot she just played
3. Go behind the hazard and drop a ball-keeping the
spot where it crossed the hazard between her dropped ball and the hole (this may be on the teeing ground but she may not re-tee?)
Are there any other options? Thanks, Robin
Dan,
There is no distinction between the rough and the fairway in the Rules when taking relief from an obstruction or ground under repair. So, if you can reach the fairway from where your ball sits, you got lucky. Just remember that it can also go the other way at times.
Robin,
There are no other options for a hazard that is marked with yellow stakes or lines.
September 18th, 2009 at 3:36 pm
Don Young writes:
Thank you John, I have a follow up question. If your ball lies just off the green on the fringe and again you have a sprinkler in your stance. Can you take relief on the green? If that is your nearest point of relief? Thanks again.
September 18th, 2009 at 5:09 pm
John Vander Borght writes:
Don, in taking relief from ground under repair or obstructions the ball must be dropped through the gren so you may not drop on the putting green in this case.
September 18th, 2009 at 6:00 pm
John Petkewich writes:
A player’s ball lands on a dirt and gravel maintenance road between two fairways. He chooses to play the ball as it lies. There are a few small stones behind his ball which he removes without disturbing the ball. He addresses the ball and at the beginning of his backswing slowly drags the club head along the ground removing more stones and dirt. Without stopping he completes the stroke and hits the ball into the fairway. Has the player violated Rule 13-2 for improving the area of his intended swing? If so, could he have avoided the penalty by removing all the stones prior to addressing the ball?
John,
The stones are not a problem as long as they were loose. The removal of the dirt would normally be a problem, but Rule 13-2 says it is not a problem as long as he only lightly grounded his club and removed any dirt in making the stroke or the backward movement of his club for a stroke and the stroke is made. So, as long as he does complete the stroke, there is no penalty in this case.
Bob,
While attachments to clubs are generally not allowed, the rubber cups that attach to the end of the putter to pull the ball out of the hole are explicitly allowed.
September 28th, 2009 at 8:33 am
Richard writes:
Is a Chipper club a legal club?
September 29th, 2009 at 11:59 am
johnv writes:
Richard,
The specifications for a golf club are quite complex so it is difficult to answer this question. In general, if the chipper has only one face designed for striking the ball, a single grip, and a straight shaft it probably is legal. Putters have specific exceptions to these rules.
September 29th, 2009 at 1:07 pm
Frank writes:
If in making a practice putting stroke the ball is accidentally moved is the player penalized?
I think the answer is no since the ball has not been addressed and there was no intent to strike it.
The ball should be replaced under no penalty.
Thanks I have a bunch of forum “experts” that aren’t buying what I am suggesting.
October 1st, 2009 at 9:33 am
johnv writes:
Frank,
The answer is that there is a penalty stroke. Rule 18-2a states that if the ball is accidentally moved by the player or his equipment, he is penalized one stroke and the ball must be replaced. If it is not replaced, the penalty becomes two stroke in stroke play or loss of home in match play. Rule 18-2b covers a ball moving after address even if it it not touched by the player.
October 1st, 2009 at 1:52 pm
Thomas Rainey writes:
During a tournament round, I address my 2nd shot on a par 4, which was lying in the right ruff (actually the location was the right side of the fairway, in fair play, in a fairly large unmarked dirt patch). As I addressed the ball, my iron barely nicked the ball causing it to move ever so slightly, although never moving from its original position. I did however touch the ball with my club at address. I hit my 2nd shot within about 4 feet and sunk my putt. I then called a 1 stroke penalty on myself and carded a par 4 on that hole. My playing partners say that I should not have incurred a penalty at all, citing Rule 18.2 wherein. “A ball is deemed to have “moved” if it leaves its position and comes to rest in any other place.” I on the other hand disagree and feel the penalty should stand, because I was at address when my club touched the ball. Your help in clarifying the rule and helping to settle this is greatly appreciated. With many thanks!
October 5th, 2009 at 1:43 pm
John Vander Borght writes:
Thomas,
As long as the ball came to rest in its original position, there is no penalty under Rule 18-2. You touched it accidentally and it didn’t move so there is no penalty.
October 5th, 2009 at 2:18 pm
Dan writes:
A rather clumsy golfer accidentally drops his putter while in the process of marking his ball on the green. The ball did not move; however, the putter left a fairly large indentation on the green on the line of putt. Questions: is there a penalty for touching the line of putt? Can the indentation be repaired?
October 6th, 2009 at 4:59 pm
John Vander Borght writes:
Dan,
if the player did this accidentally and did not improve his line of putt, there is no penalty (this is analogous to Decision 16-1a/12). The damage may not be repaired until after the player has putted (See Decision 13-2/29).
October 7th, 2009 at 7:39 am
Campbell writes:
On an unfamiliar course, I hit a drive off the tee and it did not clear the yellow-staked hazard, so I drop with the point of entry between me and the hole and play my third. When I clear the hazard and walk to the other side, I find that there is a marked drop zone which is not mentioned in the local rules. Am I entitled to play three again from the drop zone that takes 100 yards off the distance? What if I hit my first drop into the hazard again and then hit five? Can I then reset and hit three from the marked zone?
October 12th, 2009 at 11:35 pm
Steve Madden writes:
on the teeing ground. a player has teed the balled and steps back for a few practice swings. swinging along the target line the player takes a divot that knocks his ball from the tee. how does the player proceed?
October 13th, 2009 at 9:20 am
John Vander Borght writes:
Campbell,
Once you put the ball in play by dropping it behind the hazard, you could not pick up that ball and use the dropping zone instead. The drop you took was a correct drop and can not be undone.
October 14th, 2009 at 2:38 pm
John Vander Borght writes:
Steve,
A ball is not in play until a stroke is made at it with the intent to hit it. Therefore, the ball was not in play and you can retee it within the teeing ground and will be hitting your first shot.
October 14th, 2009 at 2:41 pm
Ken Lum writes:
I have a question about bunker relief. my ball was in a fairway bunker and when i got to my ball, the whole bunker was like quicksand.
It rained hard a few days before and did not dry out. The whole bunker was unplayable but no GUR signs were around. What was the correct drop or ruling in this case.
Ken,
If there was visible water in the bunker, you could take relief under Rule 25 (Abnormal Ground Conditions) for casual water. If you did that you would have two choices. Drop at the point in the bunker, not nearer the hole that gave you maximum relief with no penalty, or take a penalty stroke and drop outside the bunker, keeping the point where the ball had been between the hole and where you dropped the ball. If you chose the second option you could go back as far as you liked.
Normally if there was no casual water visible, the only way out of the bunker would be to deem the ball Unplayable and proceed under Stroke and Distance.
But, if you felt that the area should have been marked as GUR but wasn’t, you could play two balls under Rule 3-3, one as it lay and one, using one of the options described in above and ask the Committee for a ruling before returning your scorecard.
October 22nd, 2009 at 8:24 am
Norm Mayell writes:
Order of play in Match Play. When a player A claims ready golf because he see his opponent walking from a cart path to a ball that lies considerably further from his lie to the green and proceeds to hit first, I believe I can tell him to replay the shot. It is amazing that player A and others like him want to speed up the game and ruin the rhythm and drama that match play provides. How much time does a player in trouble have to make his next shot in a match play format?
Norm,
You are correct that if a player plays out of turn in match play, his opponent can immediately recall the shot and require him to play in turn. As for how much time a player has to play his next shot, it really is up to the Committee in charge of the event to establish pace of play guidelines and enforce them.
October 27th, 2009 at 1:19 pm
Joan Sarringhaus writes:
There has been a question regarding members receiving cash for prize money. I looked in the rules book regarding this question and amateur status and could not find it.
Joan,
The Rules of Amateur status at the back of the rule book state on page 142 “3-1 Playing for Prize Money – An amateur golfer must not play golf for prize money or its equivalent in a match, competition or exhibition.” The awards for any competition should be gift certificates or specific prizes which can not be converted to cash. The only exception to this is for optional games during the competitons. For example, if a tournament is awarding prizes to the first 5 places, these must not be cash or cash equivalents. If they also wanted to have an OPTIONAL skins game for the players, that could pay cash as it is not required to participate in the tournament.
November 5th, 2009 at 5:42 pm
Curt writes:
I was playing the other day and my ball happened to roll into a bunker. When I got to my ball, I saw that it was being held up by a rake in the bunker. If I were to move the rake, my ball would roll down the slope. My group told me to pick up my ball, move the rake and then proceed to put the ball back where it was. But when I tried, the ball would easily roll down the slope of the trap. My question is, should I replace the ball and if it rolls, that’s where I play it? Or, should I dig it into the sand in order to make it sit where it was originally sitting? It doesn’t seem fair to go with the latter of these two, becuase my ball, although it was against the rake, was by no means dug into the sand. I could probably see 90% of the ball. RULING???
Curt, your question exemplifies why the USGA would prefer rakes to be kept out bunkers. First, you shouldn’t lift your ball when moving a movable obstruction. Decision 20-3d/2 covers the rest of your question:
Q. A ball came to rest against a movable obstruction, a rake, in a bunker. When the rake was moved the ball rolled nearer the hole. According to Rule 24-1, the ball had to be replaced. Due to the slope and the fact that the sand was firm, the ball, when replaced, rolled closer to the hole.
Under Rule 20-3d, if a ball will not come to rest on the spot where it originally lay, it must be placed at the nearest spot not nearer the hole where it can be placed at rest. The spot where the ball originally lay was farther from the hole than any other part of the bunker. Thus, there was nowhere to place the ball at rest in the bunker that was not nearer the hole. What is the proper procedure if:
1. The only way the ball would remain at rest at the spot where it lay would be to press it lightly into the sand?
2. The sand is so hard that it is impossible to replace the ball?
A. There is nothing in the Rules permitting a player to press his ball lightly into the sand or ground to make it remain at rest. Accordingly, in either case, since the player could not place the ball in conformity with the Rules, he should proceed under the stroke-and-distance option of the unplayable ball Rule (Rule 28a) or, in equity (Rule 1-4), drop the ball, under penalty of one stroke, outside the bunker, keeping the point where the ball lay directly between the hole and the spot on which the ball is dropped.
The same principle would apply if a player is proceeding under any Rule and the ball will not come to rest in the bunker at a spot not nearer to the hole than the appropriate reference point.
November 10th, 2009 at 3:33 pm
DEAN JOHNSON writes:
Which gloves are legal. I have seen golfers using baseball batting gloves, Gardning gloves which are made of cloth and have pin head sized rubber bumps in the palm and fingers. I have been using regular golf clubs and cutting the fingers off for feel. These gloves fall apart rapidly and unevenly. I have found that weight lifting gloves work great because they have no finger or thumb material and last a long time. Is this type of glove ok for ncga tournament play.
Dean,
It is difficult to rule on things like gloves without actually seeing them. Rule 14-3 says that “plain gloves may be worn.” In general this means that there should be no ribbing or other raised areas that guide the hands into a specific grip. The best thing to do is to ask to speak with one of our staff at the next tournament you play in for a ruling on your specific glove.
November 16th, 2009 at 10:33 am
Brett writes:
I belong to a traveling, affiliate golf club which includes both men and women members. During tournament play, is there a precedent, rule, or tradition that allows for a male to play from the red tees? There was an assertion that a high handicap player (30+ index) could play from the red tees and we’re looking for the background.
Brett,
If the red (or forward) tees have been rated for men, there is no reason that they can not be used. If the players are playing in a handicap competition, their handicaps should be adjusted as described in Section 3-5 of the NCGA Handicap Manual. If those tees have not been rated, a rating can be calculated using the table found in Section 5-2 of the manual on page 35.
November 16th, 2009 at 2:12 pm
Brett writes:
Thanks for your prompt reply. I don’t have a copy of the NCGA Handicap Manual but will go look for one. On the typical scorecard, the red tees have a slope and course rating. Does this mean they are rated for men? Or is the listed values assume they are for women?
Brett,
Usually the forward tees are rated for the women. They are only rated for the men if the course asked for them to be rated. If they are rated for both, the ratings would be identified as men’s and women’s ratings. Sometimes they are rated, but the course doesn’t put it on the scorecard. Ask the pro shop if they have been rated for men.
If a ball embeds just outside of a red or yellow hazard line but the ball finishes partially under such a line is the player still entitled to a drop for the embedded ball? In most cases where the ball finishes determines its location. I’m hoping that for an embedded ball where the ball first becomes embedded would determine its location and, in this case, give the player relief?
November 23rd, 2009 at 4:11 pm
eddie price writes:
my question is what are the 10 rules governing caddies in the WGA and the 9 rules governing caddies in the USGA?
Drew,
Decision 13/4 says that a ball which is embedded is considered to be lying in the part of the course where it entered the ground. Therefore the ball is considered to be embedded outside the hazard.
Eddie,
I’m not sure what the 10 rules regarding caddies of the WGA are. The only rule the USGA has regarding a caddie is Rule 6-4. It simply says that a player may be assisted by a caddie and that he can only have one caddie at a time. Decision 6-4/10 covers 7 acts which a caddie may perform without a player’s authority.
November 25th, 2009 at 11:39 am
Rick writes:
Decision 20-2c/4 (ball stopped by caddie before re-drop required) tells us the ball must be played from where it was stopped or replaced at that spot if it was lifted. What would be the ruling if instead the ball were re-dropped? Does the re-drop lead to playing from a wrong place and now the total number of penalty strokes is four?
Rick,
Decisions 20-2c/2 and 20-6/1 both state that when a ball is dropped instead of being placed it would be a two-stroke penalty. Since the failure to replace the ball is a separate act from the caddie’s stopping the ball, the player would be penalized two more strokes for a total of four. If the player becomes aware of this before playing the shot, he could lift and place the ball as required under rule 20-6 with no second penalty.
November 26th, 2009 at 2:37 pm
Carol writes:
Please explain the purpose of the multiple Tee Boxes. Are Tee Boxes “Gender Specific”?
Carol – The purpose of multiple boxes is to provide various yardages for players of different abilities to play from – the longer the hole the more challenging it is. Tee boxes are not gender specific though some courses might choose to label its tees in this manner. You can play from any tee you choose to best fit your game.
November 28th, 2009 at 11:27 pm
Drew writes:
A player hits his ball into GUR. He decides to play the ball from GUR and hits it OB. Can he play the stroke and distance next shot from a GUR relief spot or must he play the next shot from the previous spot inside the GUR? Decision 18-2a/8.5 seems to say it must be played from GUR. What if the player plays the first shot from GUR somewhere into the same GUR. Can he now take GUR relief?
Drew,
Decisions 18-2a/8 and 18-2a/8.5 both involve the player going straight to the point of relief rather than returning to the original spot from which the shot was played. In both those cases, the player could deemed his ball unplayable and returned to the previous location under Rule 28a and then, after dropping, taken relief under Rule 25. Similarly, if your ball ends up OB, you must play under stroke and distance. Therefore, you must first drop a ball as near as possible to the point from where the previous stroke was made. If, after dropping, you have interference from the GUR, you could take relief under Rule 25.
As for the ball which is played from the GUR and ends up in another part of the same GUR, the player could take relief by determining his nearest point of relief from where the ball ended up after that stroke.
December 1st, 2009 at 11:21 am
Angela Jones writes:
We approached the green and noticed that the group in front of us damaged the hole putting the pin back in. My question is can we fix the damage to the cup before we putt or do we have to wait until we finish the hole?
Angela,
Decision 16-1a/6 covers this situation. If the damage is due to a ball mark, you may repaire it. If not, and the proper dimensions have not been materially changed, you should play without repairing it. If you do repair it, this would be a violation of Rule 16-1a. If the proper dimensions have been materially changed, you should request a member of the Committee to repair it. If a Committee members is not readily available, you may repair it without penalty.
Once your group has completed play of the hole, you may repair the damage.
December 1st, 2009 at 1:58 pm
Drew writes:
Regarding the GUR questions: why doesn’t Decision 20-3a/3 apply in these cases?
Drew,
Decision 20-3a/3 does not apply since the ball was moved by a stroke, not by the actions of some agency as in Rule 18. If the ball was hit OB as in your original question, it doesn’t have a valid position on the course from which to take relief until it is put back in play under Stroke and Distance. Therefore, there is no location from which to take relief under Rule 25.
December 2nd, 2009 at 10:13 am
Tom Fitzgerald writes:
Is there going to be a clarification of the use of GPS golf programs on smart phones during tournament play in 2010 by the USGA. I have a requested a ruling from the USGA and have not heard back from them. The NCGA has stated that they are illegal.
December 5th, 2009 at 7:11 am
johnv writes:
Tom,
The USGA and R&A issued a few weeks ago. It can be found at: http://www.usga.org/news/2009/November/USGA-R-A-Joint-Statement-On-Electronic-Devices/
The relevant section regarding smart phones is:
“3. Multi-functional devices such as mobile phones, PDAs, etc (i.e., devices that are primarily communication devices, but which may have other potential uses) may be used as follows:
· The device may be used for any non-golfing purpose (e.g., as a communication tool to phone, text or email), subject to any club/course regulations and the rules on accessing advice-related matters – see Decision 14-3/16.
· When the local rule is in effect, a distance-measuring application may be used, provided the specific application is restricted to “distance only” and the device does not have any other “non-conforming” features. This is the case even if these other features are not being used. As above, the rules on advice-related communications (including the use of the internet) still apply. ”
So, if your phone has a compass, a clinometer or some other prohibited function on it, you may not use it as an electronic measuring device.
December 5th, 2009 at 11:05 am
Tom F writes:
Since Rule 14-3 penalty is disqualification, I am assuming you can use a smart phone in a practice round and would be able to post a score based on such round. Is this correct or is use of such device prohibited for any round that you post?
December 6th, 2009 at 1:21 pm
Carol writes:
In match play, the ball is hit from the t-box – in play but also in an adjacent fairway to the hole being played. Another player from the adjacent fairway (mistakenly or purposely) hits said ball, finishes the hole with incorrect ball, leaving his ball in the sand. What is the ruling for the player in match play that is no longer able to finish the hole with his ball?
Tom,
While the rules for posting scores for handicap purposes generally require that a round be played in conformance with the Rules of Golf, the Handicap procedures do allow for rounds played with devices that measure distance when such are prohibited should still be posted.
Carol,
Rule 18-1 covers the case of a ball moved by an outside agency. If it is known or virtually certain that the ball was moved (played in this case) by the outside agency, the player is required to place the ball on the spot from which it was moved. Note 1 to Rule 18 states, “If a ball to bve replaced under this Rule is not immediately recoverable, another ball may be substituted.” Therefore, the player should place another ball on the spot. If the spot is not known exactly or the lie has been altered, you should see Rule 20-3.
December 7th, 2009 at 9:45 am
Dan writes:
A player hits his ball onto a cart path. He lifts the ball and states to an official, a fellow competitor or just to himself that he won’t be hitting it off the path, but he’s not sure whether to drop it under Rule 24 because of the probable very bad lie awaiting at the NPR or to declare the ball unplayable and proceed under 28-b or c. After a few moments of thought the player decides to declare the ball unplayable which will allow him to drop in a much better spot. Because he never committed to Rule 24, can he drop under 28 with only a one stroke penalty and avoid the “additional penalty stroke under 18-2a” as described in Decision 18-2a/12.5 #2?
December 7th, 2009 at 9:27 pm
Angela Jones writes:
I know you are not allowed to give information on what club to hit or what club you used to anyone in your foursome but are you allowed to tell some one to take a deep breath and relax before they hit their shot?
Thanks
Angela Jones
Dan,
The difference between your case and Decision 18-2a/12.5 is that the first sentence of that decision states “A player elects to take relief from an immovable obstruction … and lifts his ball.”
In your case the player has elected to do something, but what is not yet clear to him or to others. Given that, he should be able to determine which course of action he wants to take and then proceed without any additional penalty stroke.
Angela,
Advice is defined as “any counsel or suggestion that could influence a player in derterming his play, the choice of a club or the method of making a stroke.” It is a fine line as to what is advice and what isn’t. For exampe, a casual comment such as “Take your time” when a player goes up to hole out a short putt is probably not. Telling someone to “take a deep breath and relax before hitting the shot” probably would be if it was intended to assist the player in any way.
December 9th, 2009 at 10:59 am
Tom F writes:
John VB response from Dec 7 to whether scores can be posted for handicap purposes when using a GPS enabled smartphone (with other functionality) , seems to contradict the decision in the USGA Handicap Manual. Comment?
5-1f/2. Scores Made Using a Distance-Measuring Device
Q: Are scores made using information generated from a Distance-Measuring Device acceptable for handicap purposes?
A: In certain situations, yes. If the Distance-Measuring Device measures distance only, the score is acceptable for handicap purposes, regardless of whether the Committee has established a Local Rule allowing the use of a distance-measuring device. However, the use of a device that gauges or measures other conditions that might affect a player’s play (e.g., wind or gradient) is not permitted and makes the score unacceptable for handicap purposes, even if these capabilities are disabled or not used. (REVISED)
December 9th, 2009 at 4:24 pm
Ryan Gregg writes:
Tom,
A score may not be posted if a player has used a “non-conforming” or “illegal” distance measuring device (measures more than just distance). However, if a player uses a “conforming” (distance only) electronic distance measuring device when the local rule for such devices has not been adopted, then the score may be posted.
John’s answer referred to the later instance.
December 9th, 2009 at 5:35 pm
Paul writes:
We all know if you hit your own equipment while hitting the ball
it is a two stroke penalty. If you use a cart and your bag is on it,
and you hit the cart, it also is a two stroke penalty.
We had a situation in a tournament where two people were sharing
a cart. The driver parked the cart some where near the green
and left. The other person in the cart played a shot that hit the
cart. Since he did not park the cart there, is he penalized the
two strokes for hitting the cart since his equipment was on it??
We have had two answers to this question that contradict each other.
Do you have to be the last person to drive the cart to be penalized?
Please advise.
Thanks,
Paul
December 10th, 2009 at 7:59 pm
Ryan Gregg writes:
Paul,
Actually, it is only a one-stroke penalty for striking your equipment. See Rule 19-2. The only time a player is not penalized when he strikes his cart is when it is being moved by someone else. See Note 2 under the definition of equipment. In your description, the cart was at rest when the ball struck it so it would be a one-stroke penalty to the player that made the stroke.
December 11th, 2009 at 8:57 am
Rick writes:
Can a player who has been a long standing member of both a private club and a public course play in the Pub Links competition?
Rule 12 tells us that if a ball in an obstruction or in an abnormal ground condition is moved accidentally there is no penalty. But what if a ball in such a condition is moved intentionally? For example, a ball is on a shed in an obstruction area and the player intentionally pushes the ball off the top of the shed. Or a ball is stuck in a staked tree so the player intentionally shakes the tree to get it down. Now, it would seem that no penalty would apply in these cases also, but what rule tells us so? Is it the same as the player who has a ball stuck in a tree, and before knocking it down states that he will take the unplayable lie penalty?
December 18th, 2009 at 10:25 am
Frank writes:
What is the ruling on holing out? My friend says that he can finish his putt even if I my putt is further out that he is. He says he has the right to finish. I say I have the right to either let him finish or make him mark.
December 18th, 2009 at 10:36 am
Ryan Gregg writes:
Rule 12 (Searching and Identifying Ball) states that “during search” there is no penalty for accidently causing the ball to move when it lies on an obstruction. If a player accidently causes their ball to move other than during search it is a one stroke penalty under Rule 18-2. When proceeding under Rule 24 (Obstructions) and Rule 25 (Abnormal Ground Conditions…) the player is required to use “the” ball. In you examples, the player is allowed to move the ball in the process of retrieving it and there are no guidelines in the Rules of Golf that describe the method in which a player may retrieve a ball.
December 18th, 2009 at 10:40 am
Ryan Gregg writes:
Frank,
The first question I have to ask is whether you are playing match play or stroke play? If you are playing match play it is more important that the ball further from the hole be played first. If a player in match play plays out of order, his opponent may recall the stroke. In stroke play, a player may play out of order without penalty as long as it isn’t done to assist anyone. Please refer to Rule 10 (Order of Play)
December 18th, 2009 at 10:50 am
Kirk Straw writes:
Ryan, a question arose the other day relative to ice in a bunker (it rained the prior night and hard froze in the morning, the ball was on an iced over sand area) whether relief is entitled. I believe I found the reference to snow & natural ice in the Definitions…the player can optionally use casual water or loose impediments. Since in the bunker (not loose impediments), I assume relief under Rule 25 abnormal ground conditions. Am I correct?
Thanks, regards and Merry Xmas
Kirk Straw
December 18th, 2009 at 2:23 pm
Ryan Gregg writes:
Kirk,
You are correct. Since the natural ice lies in the bunker, the player would not be able to remove it without penalty. However, the player would be entitled to releif, without penalty, for casual water and take releif prescribed in Rule 25-1b(ii). Merry Xmas to you too.
December 18th, 2009 at 2:46 pm
lowell cooke writes:
On course I play there is a drainage ditch (French Drain ?) mostly covered by sod but with a few openings where gravel can be seen.Ditch is at most 12 inches wide. Ball comes to rest in sod on the ditch.No local rule in effect. Player wants free relief .Is player in a water hazard and thus must proceed under rule 26-1(b) ? or play ball as it lies? His choice . Thanks
December 19th, 2009 at 11:46 pm
Ryan Gregg writes:
Lowell,
The player would not be entitled to relief from the French Drain unless the committee has adopted a local rule deeming all of those areas as Ground Under Repair or marking them as such. If the player wishes not to play from the area, he would have to proceed under Rule 28 (Ball Unplayable). French Drain’s are not considered a water hazard.
A French Drain is a small trench in the ground that is normally covered by stones or gravel, which will allow surface water to drain away from an area that is prone to water build up and/or flooding.
December 20th, 2009 at 8:52 am
john oshaughnessy writes:
On the 16th tee, the gentleman we’re playing with tees his ball up, takes a practice swing, then addresses the ball. At the top of his backswing, his ball drops backward off the tee – normally a player would stop at that point, re-tee the ball, and hit away. But this gentleman has such a long backswing, turning his head right along with his shoulders, that he doesn’t see the ball fall off the tee. He moves into his downswing and makes absolutely beautiful contact with his tee, carrying it a good five yards, but his club passes over his ball entirely. Is this considered a stroke, or does the ball falling of the tee constitute golf’s version of a “timeout” and allow him to re-tee?
December 20th, 2009 at 6:18 pm
Ryan Gregg writes:
John O.,
The definition of a stroke is the forward movement of the club with the intention of striking the ball. By your description, the player intended to strike the ball when the club was moving forward. The rules do allow a player to hit a ball that is falling off a tee without penalty (Rule 11-3). However, since he whiffed, it is a stroke and he has to play the ball as it lies.
December 21st, 2009 at 9:40 am
Tony Oliveira writes:
While on the tee box I pick up a broken tee from the turf and tee up my drive…. Have I broken any rules by using this tee? Thank you…..
December 25th, 2009 at 7:55 pm
drew writes:
Our weekly groups play various 4-ball games and all goes well except for the one guy who has to redo putts much too frequently for my taste after we’ve finished a hole. Decision 30-3f/12 may well help speed things up especially if the penalty also applies to such practice putting if a member of the other side tees off first on the next hole. Or does the penalty only apply to when the partner of the practice putter tees off?
December 26th, 2009 at 11:41 am
Ryan Gregg writes:
Tony,
It is not a violation to use a found tee as long as it conforms to the Rules. See definition of Tee and Rule 11-1.
December 26th, 2009 at 11:45 am
Ryan Gregg writes:
Drew,
In Decision 30-3f/11, the penalty only applies if the partner has started the play of the next hole. The Committee has the right to adopt a condition of competition that prohibits practice on or near the putting green of the hole last played. See Note 2 to Rule 7-2.
December 26th, 2009 at 12:08 pm
Bret Lowrey writes:
In the fairway there is a 2′ x 2′ drain with a grate. Around the drain is a severe slope and the drain cap is below the level of the fairway and the drain is located on a hill. I know you get relief if your ball comes to rest on the drain or your regualr stance puts your foot on the drain grate/cap. But, what if your stance is on the severe slope surround the drain but not on the drain cover itself? Are you entitled to relief without a penalty?
January 5th, 2010 at 5:17 pm
Ryan Gregg writes:
Bret,
The player would not be entitled to releif for any area surrounding the drain unless the Committee has marked those areas as ground under repair or has deemed them as such. Rule 24-2 (Immovable Obstructions) only grants releif for three forms of interference– lie of ball, stance and area of intended swing.
January 5th, 2010 at 5:40 pm
George Fowler writes:
While searching for his ball in his drive cart, a player runs over his ball in the fairway rough (the first cut). This caused the ball to become embedded. Two questions:
Q1. Should the player be penalized for running over his own ball (in his own cart – own equipment)?
Q2. Does he get relief from the embedment?
Thanks!
January 5th, 2010 at 6:09 pm
Ryan Gregg writes:
George,
The player is penalized one-stroke for causing his ball to move under Rule 18-2a. According to Rule 20-3b, the player must place the ball in the nearest most similar lie that is not more than one club-length from the original lie, not nearer the hole and not in a hazard. If the original lie and location are unknown the player would proceed under Rule 20-3c and would have to drop the ball as near as possible to where it lay.
January 6th, 2010 at 9:01 am
dan writes:
We’ll be holding a stroke play tourney with about 100 players in which a dozen or so super seniors will be playing from a different set of tees than the rest of the field. The USGA hdcp. manual provides an example of such a situation and states the men playing from the back tees (higher rated) should receive an extra stroke or two based on the rating difference. Does it make any difference in hdcp. equity for the field if, instead of hoping 90 players will figure their hdcp. properly by ADDING the proper number of strokes, we (the committee) just deal with the dozen playing from the middle tees and SUBTRACT the proper number of strokes from the hdcps. of those players?
January 6th, 2010 at 9:59 am
Ryan Gregg writes:
Dan,
Yes, it is permissible to subtract the strokes from the smaller number of players. See Decision 3-5/1 in the USGA’s Handicap Manual.
January 6th, 2010 at 10:38 am
Jacob Smith writes:
It is my understanding that in a tournament the committe is respnsible for adding the scores on the score card, and it is the players responsibility to only be sure that the correct score for each hole is recorded. If this is true what should be done when the winners are announced and the winner is contested because the committee added the score of another player wrong? Should the committe change the standings to reflect the correct standings ? If the committe fails to act after being shown shown their error what can a player do ?? Thank you for your time.
January 9th, 2010 at 4:09 pm
Ryan Gregg writes:
Jacob,
You are correct that it is the Committee’s responsibility to add the competitor’s score. When the Committee makes a mistake of this kind they must rectify it. Please see Decision 34-1/6. Unfortunately, if the Committee fails to correct their mistake the player has no recourse. The Committee is right even when they are wrong. The Committee always has the right to refer their decision to the Rules of Golf Committee of the USGA per Rule 34-3.
January 10th, 2010 at 10:17 am
rick writes:
One of the guys in our group the other day decided to adjust the weight of his driver between the play of holes 4 and 5. We didn’t really care if he did it, but we knew he violated Rule 4. However, in discussing the situation we were unsure how the penalty would be assessed if we had been in a tourney situation. The note to Rule 4-2 says in case of a breech between holes the penalty is applied to the next hole. What if after being told he can’t make such an adjustment, the player immediately declares his club out of play, and, as he never moved from his seat in the cart and carried the club anywhere is there still a penalty on the next hole? Decisions 4-2/2 and 4-4a/1 seem to give a bit of leeway to the player in similar situations. If there is a penalty and we’re playing match play do we play that next hole and see who wins it and then make the adjustment in the score or is the next hole just a loss and there’s no need to even play it?
January 12th, 2010 at 9:58 am
Ryan Gregg writes:
Rick,
Once the player makes any type of adjustment to his club, he is penalized. Since the adjustment took place between the play of two holes, the adjustment to the state of the match would occur after the play of the next hole. Decision 4-2/2 and 4-4a/1 are different in the sense that 4-2/2 refers to the adjustment of a club and 4-4a/1 refers to adding a club.
January 12th, 2010 at 10:23 am
Ed writes:
I was told by a friend that she saw the following incident: a player hits his ball into a moving golf cart. The driver of the cart (maybe deaf) didn’t realize what had happened and drove probably fifty yards before stopping and making it possible to retrieve the ball. Besides the possible penalties for hitting equipment or an opportunity to replay the shot, where should the ball be dropped? I’m thinking the player would just make the best possible guess at the spot where the ball first went into the cart. Is that correct?
January 12th, 2010 at 11:12 pm
Ryan Gregg writes:
Ed,
The player that made the stroke would not be penalized. See Decision 19/1. In match play, the player may choose to replay the stroke. If the player chooses not to replay the stroke or in stroke play, the player would drop the ball at the spot where the ball entered the cart. See Rule 19-1.
January 13th, 2010 at 9:10 am
Denis Lose writes:
What is the maximum score I can take on any hole for posting purposes if my index is 13.3. What are the other maximums
January 13th, 2010 at 3:48 pm
Ryan Gregg writes:
Denis,
After you have applied your Handicap Index to the applicable Slope Chart, the following Equitable Stroke limits apply to your Course Handicap:
9 or less = Double Bogey
10 through 19 = 7
20 through 29 = 8
30 through 39 = 9
40 or more = 10
January 13th, 2010 at 4:00 pm
Drew writes:
A question about playing a wrong ball (stroke play): A plays B’s ball. By the time ownership is established and A’s ball is found, neither A nor B can be sure exactly where B’s ball was when A played it, for there is no divot or other landmark. According to Rule 15-3b, the owner, B, “must place a ball on the spot….” Does B get to place the ball on an estimated spot, or must he now drop the ball as the players are just making their best guess as to where the ball was located?
January 16th, 2010 at 9:46 pm
Doug Blanchard writes:
Question about moving a ball marker on the green. Player A marked his ball in compliance with rules, then was asked to move the marker by player B. Player A used his putter to measure distance from the marker, then placed his ball at the end of the putter and then marked this location and picked up his ball. After player B had putted, player A reversed all these steps, placed his ball in the original location and putted. Player B says that even though the ball was putted from the correct location, the procedure is not withen the rules and therefore a penaly should be added to played A score. Although the method is unorthodox, is it against the rules? If so, what is the penalty in stroke play for this offense? Thank you.
January 17th, 2010 at 4:19 pm
Ryan Gregg writes:
Drew,
Since the players did not know the exact spot, the player must drop the ball at the estimated spot. See Rule 20-3c. Replacing the ball means getting the ball back in play on a spot or in a location. Therefore, sometimes you place it and sometimes you drop it.
January 17th, 2010 at 6:32 pm
Ryan Gregg writes:
Doug,
The Note to Rule 20-1 states “The position of a ball to be lifted should be marked by placing a ball-marker, a small coin or other similar object immediately behind the ball. If the ball-marker interferes with the play, stance or stroke of another player, it should be placed one or more clubhead-lengths to one side”. This is a recommended procedure. The player needs to make every effort to make sure that the ball is replaced in its original location. Otherwise, the player would be penalized two strokes for playing from a wrong place, Rule 20-7.
January 17th, 2010 at 6:40 pm
Doug Blanchard writes:
Thanks Ryan. So to be clear, what I understanding your answer to be, is that after marking with a coin like object, if the marker is moved, and, when all is said and done, if the ball is in the original location before being putted, then there is no penalty to be added. So while this is not the usual way to move the marker, it is not against the Rules of Golf.
January 17th, 2010 at 8:18 pm
Bobby Fenton writes:
While playing recently, I hit my iron shot into the green and it landed on a steep slope on the green. I was a bit surprised when my ball did not roll down the slope, but as I reached my ball, i saw that it had lodged up against its own pithmark thus not allowing it to roll down the slope. I contended that I could repair the pith mark without marking the ball and if the ball moved then I could play from where it came to rest. My playing partner said I had to mark the ball and place it in a place where it would not move. What was the correct procedure? Thanks for the help.
January 18th, 2010 at 4:45 pm
Ryan Gregg writes:
Bobby,
See Rule 20-3d. If a ball when placed fails to come to rest on the spot on which it was placed, there is no penalty and the ball must be replaced. If it still fails to come to rest on that spot it must be placed at the nearest spot where it can be placed at rest that is not nearer the hole and not in a hazard. However, if the ball when placed comes to rest on the spot on which it is placed, and it subsequently moves, there is no penalty and the ball must be played as it lies, unless the provisions of any other Rule apply.
January 18th, 2010 at 5:21 pm
Ed writes:
Decision 25/5.5 tells us that a spider web is consider a loose impediment. So it would be okay to remove a large spider web that interfered with the back swing of a stroke?
January 18th, 2010 at 8:29 pm
Drew writes:
Thanks for your response of Jan. 17 clarifying the correct spot for the wrong ball. My follow-up question is: what is the rule’s logic or rule’s vocabulary that has the rule read “must PLACE a ball on the spot…. instead of, as you suggest, “must REPLACE a ball on the spot…
January 19th, 2010 at 9:13 am
Ryan Gregg writes:
Ed,
Yes, it permissible to remove a spider web that is interfering with the backward movement of the club for a stroke. Decision 23/5.5 states that a web made by a spider is a loose impediment, even if it is attached to another object.
January 19th, 2010 at 9:15 am
Ryan Gregg writes:
Drew,
In general….Replaced means getting the ball on the specific spot. Placed means putting a ball on the specific spot where the former ball was a rest or a specific spot determined by the Rules, i.e. Rule 20-3c. The Rules of Golf are a bit inconsistent in its uses.
January 19th, 2010 at 11:18 am
Michael Perez writes:
Is it against the rules of golf to stand behind your line of putt on the green while a fellow competitor is putting? Your line is not on the same line as your competitor and you are out of the competitors view while he is putting.
January 19th, 2010 at 3:22 pm
Ryan Gregg writes:
Michael,
It is permitted under the Rules to stand behind and analyze your putt while a fellow-competitor plays. For etiquette purposes, it is best to do so without distracting the fellow-competitor.
January 19th, 2010 at 3:30 pm
David Forkel writes:
What is the procedure for taking a drop in a hazard after a shot is hit OB? We had a drive off the tee slowly roll into a marked water hazard (lake) but stopped partially submerged at the water’s edge. The player hit the ball from the water and it went OB. What are his options? Where does he drop the ball? How close to the original spot? If he dropped it at the waters edge at the spot of his previous shot it would almost certainly roll into the lake and be unplayable. If he dropped it a club length away (still within the hazard boundary)it would likely stay dry and improve his lie over the previous shot. He actually placed it partially submerged to recreate the previous shot and rehit the ball (hitting 4) but this does not seem correct since he did not drop the ball. I told him he had to redrop within one club length of the original location within the hazard and if it stayed out of the water he could hit it (hitting 4) and if it rolled into the water he would then be assessed another stroke and could drop where he originally enterred the hazard (hitting 5). Who was correct?
January 27th, 2010 at 10:03 am
Ryan Gregg writes:
David,
See Rule 26-2 and Decision 26-2/1. When the player’s second shot came to rest out of bounds the player was required to take a penalty stroke and drop a ball from where he had just played from (in the water hazard) or take an additional penalty stroke and drop under his options of the water hazard rule (Rule 26). When dropping in the hazard, if the ball rolls into a place where it cannot be played and it doesn’t need to be redropped under the Rules, the player still has the option of taking a one stroke penalty and proceeding under his options of Rule 26. A player cannot proceed under Rule 28, Ball Unplayable, when his ball lies in a water hazard or lateral water hazard.
January 27th, 2010 at 12:31 pm
David Forkel writes:
If the player chooses to drop from where he just played (in the water hazard), is he allowed one club length from the spot of the previous shot?
January 28th, 2010 at 8:16 pm
Ryan Gregg writes:
David,
Rule 26-2b(i) states that the player must play the ball as nearly as possible at the spot in the hazard from which the original ball was last played. Rule 20-5c says that it must be dropped.
January 29th, 2010 at 9:54 am
Tom Oswold writes:
The maintenance crew left a pile of branches trimmed from nearby trees in the space between two fairways. The assumed intent is to clear them away at some later time. I hit a drive into the pile of branches. The ball was not visible in the pile. How should I proceed?
January 29th, 2010 at 5:11 pm
Ryan Gregg writes:
Tom,
By definition, material piled for removal is considered Ground Under Repair even if not marked. The player is entitled to relief for ground under repair as prescribed in Rule 25. For a ball lost in the ground under repair, the player would determine the spot in which it last crossed the margin of the ground under repair and use this spot for determining the nearest point of relief. The player is then entitled to one club-length of relief from that spot that is no nearer the hole. See Rule 25-1b(i) and 25-1c(i).
January 29th, 2010 at 6:29 pm
terry price writes:
were french drains ever covered under the rules of golf?
February 5th, 2010 at 10:48 am
Ryan Gregg writes:
Terry,
I beleive there was a reference to French Drains at one time in the Rules of Golf. However, I have yet to find it. I have seached back to 1974 and have not found anything. I will continue the search and if I find something I will report it here.
February 5th, 2010 at 1:31 pm
terry price writes:
I think I remember the term be defined at one time. If you can’t find it between 1974 and 1968 then it’s not in there because I began playing in’68
February 5th, 2010 at 3:24 pm
Gary Crocker writes:
A right handed golfer hits his ball against an out-of-bounds fence. The ball is still in play. He cannot take his usual right handed stance because the outof-bounds fence prevents him from doing so. He proceeds to take a left handed stance, (on the other side of the ball) so that he can take a full left handed swing.
On doing so, he finds that his left handed stance, put him on a cart path.
Can he seek relief from the cart path and in doing so, get relief from the out-of-bounds fence?
My second question, is:
Can you play with the back end of a club, putter or iron?
Thank you
Gary Crocker
February 6th, 2010 at 9:50 am
terry price writes:
yes to both questions
February 6th, 2010 at 11:14 am
Ted Robinson writes:
Do the options for relief from a water hazard,through the green, apply to a ball putted too hard and it rolls off of the green and into a water hazard?
February 6th, 2010 at 5:17 pm
Ryan Gregg writes:
Gary,
I agree with Terry. See decision 24-2b/6.
February 7th, 2010 at 8:22 am
Ryan Gregg writes:
Ted,
Yes. See Rule 26-1. However, one of the options is to play a ball as nearly as possible from which the original ball was last played under penalty of one stroke (26-1a). The player would place the ball on the putting green (Rule 20-5d).
February 7th, 2010 at 8:31 am
Dave writes:
Is there a written rule for the maximum distance that the tee
blocks should or can be placed from the tee yardage markers,
such as 10 or 20 yards. This can have an effect on posting
scores for (GHIN) handicaping.
February 7th, 2010 at 12:27 pm
Rick writes:
A player has a very long putt and doesn’t bother to ask anyone to tend the flagstick. The putted ball subsequently hits the flagstick or even goes in the hole while it is being tended by a fellow competitor who thought he was doing a favor for the player and began tending the flagstsick after the stroke and without the authorization of the player. Who gets the penalty if any?
February 8th, 2010 at 1:45 am
Ryan Gregg writes:
Dave,
Tee markers should be placed so that the course plays to its rated length. All markers DO NOT have to be placed at the NCGA permanent markers to achieve this length; however, unless course conditions dictate, variation from the permanent markers should not exceed 10 yards.
February 8th, 2010 at 9:30 am
Ryan Gregg writes:
Rick,
See Rule 17-1 and 17-2. When a player strikes an unattended flagstick with a stroke from the green it is a loss of hole in match play or two stroke penalty in stroke play and the player would play the ball as it lies. If the player strikes a flagstick that has been attended without authority the person attending would be penalized and the player may cancel and replay the stroke.
February 8th, 2010 at 9:39 am
Gregg Bargas writes:
I read in the recent Golf Digest a new decision(30-3f/13)states that a player is in breach of rule 14-2b if he allows his partner to stand on an extension of his line of putt during a stroke. Here’s my questions 1) can an oppenent stand on an extension of the line of putt(how rude) and if so i’m sure I can ask him to move? and 2) Can your partner stand on or near the line behind my putt? And as far as an oppenent is concerned, i’m sure it is the same for behind the person putting as it is on an extension of the line of putt. Thank you for your time.. Gregg
February 10th, 2010 at 8:57 am
Ryan Gregg writes:
Gregg,
Yes, an opponent of fellow-competitor may stand on an extension of the player’s line of putt behind the ball without penalty. The player may ask the opponent or fellow-competitor to move and if they don’t they may subject to penalty under Rule 33-7. A partner may not stand on an extension of line of putt behind the ball while the stroke is being made (See Rule 14-2). However, the partner may stand on the opposite side of the hole to watch the putt because the line of putt ends at the hole.
February 10th, 2010 at 9:31 am
Ed writes:
Please double check the answer to Rick regarding a ball putted from on the green that subsequently hits the person tending the flagstick without authorization. The answer above said the player may cancel and replay. The penalty statement under 17-2 says “the stroke is canceled and the ball must be replaced and replayed.” Now that’s for stroke play. What about match play? If the unauthorized attender is the opponent, the hole is over as the loss of hole penalty applies. What about the situation when two singles matches are being played in the same group of four and the person who, in our case, tends the flagstick is not part of the match in question?
February 10th, 2010 at 10:50 am
Drew writes:
Decisions 20-3b/4 and 20-2c/1.5 are similar in that in both cases the player is putting his ball back into play at the previous spot, the spot is (roughly) identifiable by a divot, and, in both cases, the lie has been altered by the taking of a divot. In 20-2c/1.5 the ball is dropped; in 20-3b/4 the ball is placed. Is the place vs. drop because in one case the player himself has altered the lie and in the other another player altered the lie? If that is correct, does it make any difference if the “other player” is the partner? Or is there some totally different reason why in one case the ball is dropped and placed in the other?
February 10th, 2010 at 11:08 am
Ryan Gregg writes:
Ed,
You are correct. I should have written “must” instead of “may”. The Rules of Golf do not contemplate two singles matches being played in the same group. However, by definition, the person that is not part of the match is an outside agency and Rule 19-1b applies, there is no penalty to either player and the stroke is canceled and replayed.
February 10th, 2010 at 11:22 am
Ryan Gregg writes:
Drew,
Rule 20-3b deals with a lie being altered. In Decision 20-3b/4, the player knows the lie before being altered. Which in the example is a lie without a divot. The player is required to place a ball within a club-length of the original lie.
Rule 20-2c refers to the situations in which a player has to re-drop. In Decision 20-2c/1.5, the player does know the original spot and the original lie, however, it has not been altered and the player must re-drop because his ball has rolled forward of his estimated spot (Rule 20-2c (Vii)a) when returning to play a ball under stroke and distance (Rule 20-5).
To get back to your question….it does not make a difference whom alters the lie in 20-3b.
February 10th, 2010 at 11:50 am
David Forkel writes:
My opponent requested the flag be left in while he chipped but wanted the flag tended and removed after he made his shot.Is a player chipping from off the green permitted to have the flag tended?
February 12th, 2010 at 2:38 pm
Ryan Gregg writes:
David,
Rule 17-1 states that before making a stroke from anywhere on the course, the player may have the flagstick attended, removed or held up.
February 12th, 2010 at 2:55 pm
David writes:
4 ball match, AB vs. CD. A holes putt and says that’s a 4. C & D, both lying 4, pick up their ball markers and head to the next tee. At that point A says “Oops. I had a five.” A is out of the hole for giving wrong info. How is B affected? If he had been lying 3 and had also picked up his ball, could he replace his ball with a one stroke penalty and putt for a five with C & D replacing their balls without penalty and also putting for a five?
February 14th, 2010 at 8:53 pm
Bill writes:
A tall protective screen runs approximately 40 yards tight to the left side of the teeing areas. Pulled shots often hit the screen and drop to the very base or even get stuck in the screen. If properly taken, the nearest point of relief for a right hander is on the other side of the screen (the left side) in a position that leaves a nearly impossible next shot as the angle back towards the fairway can be back through the screen. Is there a rule or suggested local rule that allows dropping on the right side of the screen leaving the player a reasonable next shot?
February 15th, 2010 at 12:03 am
Ryan Gregg writes:
David,
Yes. Since player A had given his opponents incorrect information (Rule 9-2) and did not correct it prior to his opponents lifting their golf balls, player A would be disqualified from the hole. Since Player B lifted his ball without marking it he would be penalized one stroke (Rule 18-2a) and be required to replace it. Their opponents, C and D, would replace their balls without penalty.
February 15th, 2010 at 10:04 am
Ryan Gregg writes:
Bill,
Note 3 to Rule 24-2 states that the Committee may make a Local Rule stating that the player must determine the nearest point of relief without crossing over, through or under the obstruction.
February 15th, 2010 at 10:08 am
Bill Bell writes:
A course that I frequently play has a green that is surrounded by white stakes on the back 180 degrees. The shape of the mowed area behind the green is basically a half circle but there are only about four stakes defining the out of bounds creating more of a polygon than an arc. I believe the intention is that the unmowed brush area is the out of bounds but if you sight stake to stake there may be 6′ – 10′ of mowed playable turf between the defined “line” and the unmowed boundry. What’s the rule?
February 15th, 2010 at 1:29 pm
David writes:
Hi Ryan,
I was feeling pretty good that you agreed with my answer to the situation regarding the 4 ball match from Feb. 14 above, as I usually get such questions wrong. But with more reading of Rule 30 (getting ready for a match play tourney), I wonder if perhaps we may be in error. Check out Decision 30-3f/3. It seems very similar in that an action against the rules by player A “adversely affected his opponents, i.e. caused them to pick up, A’s partner was also disqualified for the hole–Rule 30-3f. Thus, the opponents won the hole.” What do you think?
February 15th, 2010 at 4:52 pm
Ryan Gregg writes:
Bill,
The out of bounds is defined by the inside edge at ground level of the stakes. It is the Committee’s responsibility to accurately define the margins of the course. If it is their intent to make everything outside the mow line out of Bounds than a white line should be added or additional stakes. Otherwise, you must go stake to stake.
February 15th, 2010 at 6:32 pm
Ryan Gregg writes:
David,
I agree. It does seem that the situation in Decision 30-3f/3 would apply and the partner would also be disqualified from the hole. Good one.
February 16th, 2010 at 9:18 am
terry price writes:
I believe 14-2b was instituted in the late 1970s because tour players were allowing their caddies to stand behind them to block interference from the fan-crowds as they putted. I think the rule should include opponents and fellow competitors because if two very good friends are playing in the same group they could agree to stand behind each other to block the crowds thus defeating the cause for the rule.
Terry,
The rule banning the practice of having a caddie stand on the extension of the line of putt behind the ball was first put in place in 1976 as Rule 35-1e. In 1984, a major reorganization of the rules caused it to be renumbered to 16-1f.
In 2000, the rule was extended to prohibit this throughout the entire course and it was moved from Rule 16 (Putting Green) to Rule 14-2 (Assistance).
As for extending the rule, any opponents or fellow competitors who agreed to do this for the purpose of assisting each other would be guilty of waving Rule 14-2 on accepting assistance and should be disqualified under rule 1-3.
February 16th, 2010 at 5:59 pm
David writes:
In match play, Player A’s ball is a few inches from the hole. Opponent B asks A how many strokes he has taken. A replies 4 so B concedes the putt for a 5 and picks up his own ball as he was lying 6. Now A says “Nope, I got a 6.” Is B now the winner of the hole because A gave incorrect information? Would it change if B had been lying 7 or more? Do the rules always assume that A could have 5-putted from a few inches so A’s score could never be assumed?
February 19th, 2010 at 10:55 am
jim mcgrath writes:
In a club tournament I was in the middle of my swing when my playing group broke out in loud laughter from a joke causing me to top my ball into a water hazard.The group apologised for the disruption and allowed me to take another penalty free shot wich I did.I wound up placing third in our tournament. Later our vice president heard about the incident and said I should not have been awarded another hit penalty free. this issue has caused some debate what is the proper ruling thank you jim
February 19th, 2010 at 12:29 pm
Ryan Gregg writes:
David,
Decision 9-2/5 states that once a player gives incorrect information he must correct it before his opponent picks up the ball. Otherwise, it becomes wrong information and the player would lose the hole. Decision 9-2/6 deals with wrong information given after the completion of the hole. If the player has not completed the hole than Rule 9-2 applies and the player loses the hole for giving wrong information.
February 19th, 2010 at 3:42 pm
Ryan Gregg writes:
Jim,
The Rules of Golf do not let a player “re-do” a stroke, without penalty, because he was distracted. Essentially, you have proceeded correctly under your options (Rule 26-1a). However, if you signed and returned your scorecard without including your original stroke and the penalty stroke for that hole you should be disqualified (Rule 6-6d). If the competition had closed and you were not aware that you had incurred a penalty, Rule 34-1b (iii) would apply and the results would stand.
February 19th, 2010 at 4:12 pm
David writes:
Back to Dec. 9-2/6 as you mentioned two items above: A holes out and tells his opponent B that he has scored 4. B lying 5 picks up (the best he can do is 6). A then says, “Wait, that’s a 5.” Is it correct to say that A still wins the hole as the wrong information did not affect B’s understanding of the result of the hole (Rule 9-2.b.iii)?
February 21st, 2010 at 5:03 pm
Ed writes:
To add to Ryan’s comment to Jim and his noisy companions, see Decision 1-4/1.
February 21st, 2010 at 5:09 pm
Ryan Gregg writes:
David,
Rule 9-2 specifically states that the player has to give incorrect information regarding the number of strokes taken to complete a hole AND this affects the opponent’s understanding of the result of the hole. In your example, the wrong information does not change the status of the hole. So there is no wrong information.
February 22nd, 2010 at 9:40 am
David writes:
Please take a look again at Dec. 30-3f/3. What would be the ruling if the opponents C & D saw player A pick up his ball before it was holed. Now he is not giving wrong information because under Rule 9-2.b.i his actions were “observed by his opponents,” and it the responsibility of the players to know the rules. Again the spectator points out that the ball was not holed. Do all players replace their ball under a one stroke penalty or does the “adversely affected” still give the hole to C & D?
February 22nd, 2010 at 5:46 pm
Ryan Gregg writes:
David,
In your example, the opponent’s witnessed the violation and chose to ignore it. That is their right in match play see Decision 2-5/1. Only, if there is a referee assigned to the match, must action be taken for the violation.
February 23rd, 2010 at 9:03 am
terry price writes:
John,
I don’t think they would be guilty of a breach of 14-2 or 14-2a because if this is a general rule then what is the need for 14-2b?
Terry,
I typically do not use the sub-letters when replying to these questions, especially when discussing the penalty statement which applies to the entire sub-section of the Rule. To be more specific, Rule 14-2b would apply. It could be argued that Rule 14-2b only applies to the player’s caddie, his partner or his partner’s caddie. But, while Rule 16-1a says that a player may touch his own line of putt except in specific cases, Decision 1-3/3 makes it clear that an agreement between players to repair spike marks on an each other’s lines of putt would be an agreement to waive that rule and the players would be disqualified under Rule 1-3. In my opinion, the similar principle of agreeing to provide assistance in this manner would apply here.
February 23rd, 2010 at 3:25 pm
David Spalasso writes:
A course I play frequently has a lot of canyon running parallel to the fairway. There are also bunkers right next to the canyons. If I slice a ball over the bunker and into a canyon what are my options? I cannot play from the other side of the hazard. I can’t drop keeping the pin in line from where the ball crossed the hazard. I can hit from the tee box. Can I drop two club lengths from where it crossed the hazard and drop it in the bunker? Thanks Dave
February 27th, 2010 at 12:00 am
Ryan Gregg writes:
David,
It really depends on how the course is marked. If the canyon is marked as a lateral hazard (red stakes and/or lines), then you may use the option under Rule 26 and drop within two club-lengths from where the ball last crossed the margin of the hazard and the ball may be dropped in a bunker.
February 27th, 2010 at 9:15 am
Randy Herzberg writes:
A player takes a swing at his ball in the fairway, hits it fat, and the divot, still attached, folds over the ball. Is the player allowed to fold the divot back to replace it prior to his next swing?
February 27th, 2010 at 10:05 pm
Ryan Gregg writes:
Randy,
The player would not be permitted to put the divot back per Rule 13-2 that states that a player may not improve the lie of the ball by moving bending or breaking anything growing or fixed.
February 28th, 2010 at 8:29 am
W Norosky writes:
Hi,
Playing in a stroke play tourney recently, fellow competitor’s ball was found in the bottom of an old stump, about the wide and depth of a 5 gallon bucket. In my estimation he could not have moved the ball with a stick of dynamite. Players stance, if he attempted to extricate the ball, would be on a cart path. he claimed he was entitled to relief. I cried foul. What’s the ruling?
March 1st, 2010 at 4:49 pm
Ryan Gregg writes:
Mr. Norosky,
The exeption to Rule 24-2 states that a player may not take relief if it is clearly unreasonable for him to make a stroke because of interference by anything other than an immovable obstruction. In your example, it is clearly unreasonable for the player to make a stroke at the ball. He would be denied relief from the cart path.
March 1st, 2010 at 5:18 pm
Walter writes:
I’m a scorer for a fellow competitor in a stroke play event. Through the first four holes he has failed to give me an accurate accounting of his score, consistently chiseling one stroke off. This forces me to go over each stroke, until he begrudgingly concedes to my correct accounting. This is aggravating me to now end and my game is suffering. He even asked me if I was going to question him after every hole! ( Well yeah you haven’t got one right yet!) Do I have a case for him being DQ’ed for an obvious attempt to cheat and IMHO a severe breach of etiquette?
March 1st, 2010 at 5:45 pm
Richard Elliott writes:
While watching the Phoenix Open on saturday I noticed Scott Piercy in a fairway bunker. Waiting for the green to clear he tapped the “rake” a couple of times w/ his club.It looked as if this was a “waste” bunker, but I have yet to see a “rake” in one. What is the ruling?
March 2nd, 2010 at 10:41 am
Craig writes:
I work at a golf course. For prizes we give out what we call Hidden Valley Bucks. They can be used to pay for food at the restaurant or anything purchased at the pro shop. Is this a violation of amature status? Can they be used to pay for alcohol? Thank you.
March 2nd, 2010 at 10:47 am
Ryan Gregg writes:
Walter,
As a marker you are responsible for recording your fellow-competitors score accurately and signing the scorecard attesting to that fact. See Rule 6-6. It is the player’s responsibility to also sign the card and turn it into the Committee. If it is discovered that a player has signed for a score lower than actually taken then they shall be disqualified from the championship.
March 2nd, 2010 at 2:00 pm
Ryan Gregg writes:
Richard,
It is normally not the general practice to put a rake in a “waste area”. These areas are considered through the green, by definition. Whether Scott’s ball was in a bunker or a “waste area”, he was entitled to touch the rake with his club. See the exception to Rule 13-4.
March 2nd, 2010 at 2:05 pm
Ryan Gregg writes:
Craig,
It is not a violation of amateur status to give out certificates that allow a player to purchase items from the course. They may not exchange the certificate (Hidden Valley Bucks) into cash. See the Rules of Amateur Status in the back of the Rules of Golf Book.
March 2nd, 2010 at 2:10 pm
David writes:
Rule 20-3 says that if a ball is lifted or moved, the person who lifted or moved it may replace it. So if a caddie (or spectator or marshall) should be the one to remove a hose or cable or some moveable obstruction, could the caddie, marshall or spectator be the one to replace the ball? I’m sure at most any level of play the player himself would do the replacing, but if one of the others did so would it be ok?
March 2nd, 2010 at 10:46 pm
Ryan Gregg writes:
David,
When a ball at rest has been moved by an outside agency or the players side (Rule 18) it must be replaced. You are correct, Rule 20-3 states that when the ball has been moved it may be replaced by the player, partner or person that moved it. Ultimately, it is the player’s responsibility to make sure that the ball gets back to the original location.
March 3rd, 2010 at 4:09 pm
benny lentz writes:
on are course we have local rule which is on the scorecard also that reads :BALLS HITTING POWER LINES MUST BE REPLAYED WITH NO PENALTY-BALLS HITTING POWER POLES ARE PLAYED WHERE THEY LIE; my question is on the second shot of a par four the ball is hit and strikes a tree limb and proceeds forward striking the power line that knocks the ball straight down the power line runs across the fairway.Do you play the ball where it lies or replay the ball.
March 5th, 2010 at 8:35 pm
Ryan Gregg writes:
Benny,
The stroke must be replayed. It doesn’t matter that it struck a branch prior to striking the overhead powerline.
March 6th, 2010 at 4:07 pm
David writes:
In a tourney played this weekend a ball ended up on a cart path.
The player took the proper drop and the ball ended up close to a rope that had been stretched between trees to keep carts out of a wet area. We assumed the rope was a moveable obstruction, but instead of untying it, one member of the group simply held the rope back out of the way while the player hit his shot. Any rules problem with such an assist?
March 8th, 2010 at 8:51 am
Mike Lopez writes:
If a ball has a clump of mud on the hitting area, can it be turned around so as to have a clean hitting area?
March 8th, 2010 at 9:00 am
Ryan Gregg writes:
David,
The player was entitled to relief from the rope under Rule 24-1a and could have moved or removed it prior to playing his stroke. The rules do not state how the rope must be moved or removed. The player would not be penalized for this action.
March 8th, 2010 at 11:39 am
Ryan Gregg writes:
Mike,
If a ball is lifted under a Rule that does not permit it to be cleaned the ball may be replaced with the mud facing any direction other than directly under the ball. See Decision 21/5.
March 8th, 2010 at 11:44 am
Lucille Rhodes writes:
In a tournament, can a twosome move up and join another twosome after
the round has started? (They have not skipped any holes) Also can a
player start out with one group and change to another group durring the round?
March 8th, 2010 at 1:29 pm
Ryan Gregg writes:
Lucille,
Rule 6-3b states that in stroke play, the competitor must remain throughout the round in the group arranged by the Committee, unless the Committee authorizes or ratifies a change. If players were to change groups without authorization from the Committee, they would be disqualified.
March 8th, 2010 at 2:08 pm
Rick writes:
Why is there a penalty for accidentally hitting your ball during a pratice putting stroke but not when taking a practice swing on the teeing ground? Refer to Stump the Rules Wizards in the Winter 2010 NCGA Golf magazine. If in both cases the player was not addressing the ball but just taking a practice swing/putt I’m not sure why there are two different rules.
March 8th, 2010 at 7:13 pm
David writes:
Can there be a serious breach under Rule 18? A player’s ball is at rest on the green and unfortunately the wind and gravity take it into a bunker. The player, thinking he is doing the right thing, replaces the ball back on the green. Is the penalty simply the two strokes under Rule 18 or does this situation fall into a must fix scenario?
March 8th, 2010 at 7:56 pm
Jeff writes:
With all the bad weather recently, out tournament was played using Lift, Clean & Place in the fairways. The question is, would you be entitled to do so on the fringe around the greens? Thanks.
March 8th, 2010 at 11:10 pm
Ryan Gregg writes:
Rick,
The difference is in the definition of ball in play. When the ball is on the tee it is not in play. The first sentence in Rule 18-2a states “When a player’s ball is in play”….
March 9th, 2010 at 9:02 am
Ryan Gregg writes:
David,
It is possible to have a serious breach under Rule 18. Based on your example, it could possibly be a serious breach.
Ultimately, it is up to the Committee to decide whether or not a serious breach has occurred. See Rule 20-7c.
March 9th, 2010 at 9:07 am
Ryan Gregg writes:
Jeff,
Yes, a player would be entitled to proceed under lift, clean and place in all closely mown areas. Including the areas of fringe around the greens. See Appendix I “Preferred Lies” and “Winter Rules”.
March 9th, 2010 at 9:11 am
ed writes:
Today I saw a player hit his ball into a bunker such that it was partially buried on an uphill slope. In order to take his stance he had to be above the ball, and when he started to take his stance a mini avalanche buried his ball under 2-3 inches of sand. (The ball may have even moved though it was impossible to tell.) Now, does the player get to do what is allowed under Rule 12: “If an excess is removed, there is no penalty and the ball must be recovered so that only a part of the ball is visible.” Or, as the player is the one who worsened his lie, is he stuck with unplayable being the only option?
March 9th, 2010 at 4:07 pm
Ryan Gregg writes:
Ed,
The Rules of Golf allow a player to worsen his lie without penalty. However, he may not improve it. If he improves his lie, he is in violation of Rule 13-2 (two stroke penalty in Stroke Play or loss of hole in Match Play). If his ball is moved in the process of taking his stance in this manner it is a one stroke penalty (Rule 18-2a) and he is required to replace it and recreate the original lie. See Rule 20-3b.
March 9th, 2010 at 4:27 pm
ed writes:
Let’s assume Rule 18 doesn’t apply since it was impossible to tell if the ball moved, and so to be clear about the ball buried in the bunker by avalanche, if the player moved enough sand so he could see the ball to play it, he would incur a 2 stroke penalty under Rule 13, and if he wanted to avoid the 2 SP, the best he could do would be to declare the ball unplayable (as it clearly was) and proceed under Rule 28. Is that correct?
March 10th, 2010 at 9:22 am
Ryan Gregg writes:
Ed,
That is correct.
March 10th, 2010 at 9:25 am
Hayata Takeshita writes:
I downloaded the USGA Rules of Golf app onto my iPhone. Can I use this in tournaments instead of the printed book?
March 10th, 2010 at 10:02 am
Ryan Gregg writes:
Hayata,
Yes, you may. See decision 14-3/16 for additional guidlines.
March 10th, 2010 at 10:15 am
Rick writes:
At a recent tourney the range was closed due to frost. I noticed a few players taking balls out of their bags and hitting them. I thought this was an unfair advantage. Was this a violation of the rules of golf?
March 14th, 2010 at 6:18 pm
Ryan Gregg writes:
Rick,
There is no violation of the Rules of Golf for players practicing with their own golf balls in this manner.
March 14th, 2010 at 7:27 pm
Glenn writes:
Playing the 18th at pebble I pulled my second shot over the bunker into the ocean. The red line of the hazard margin is in the bunker. Is the correct spot to drop in the bunker?
March 19th, 2010 at 7:59 pm
Ryan Gregg writes:
Glenn,
Pebble? Good for you! Yes, one of your options for the lateral water hazard is to drop within two club-lengths from where your ball last crossed the margin. There is no restriction from dropping in the bunker.
March 20th, 2010 at 8:23 am
Joe Crosetti writes:
Chapman or Pinehurst two man Tournament.
Player A and Player B both tee off.
They switch balls on the second shot Player A hits Player B’s ball and Player B hits Player A’s ball.
The question is, if play A hits his drive out of bounds does he tee up and hit again and hit another drive or does player B tee up and hit Player A’s second drive?
March 23rd, 2010 at 6:06 pm
Tim writes:
in the jr tournament a player hit his ball over the par 3 into the water and could not retrieve it, what is his next move
March 24th, 2010 at 2:19 am
Ryan Gregg writes:
Tim,
It depends on how the hazard is marked (Yellow is a water hazard or Red is a lateral water hazard). The player may proceed as prescribed in Rule 26:
a. Play a ball as nearly as possible at the spot from which the original ball was last played (see Rule 20-5); or
b. Drop a ball behind the water hazard, keeping the point at which the original ball last crossed the margin of the water hazard directly between the hole and the spot on which the ball is dropped, with no limit to how far behind the water hazard the ball may be dropped; or
c. As additional options available only if the ball last crossed the margin of a lateral water hazard, drop a ball outside the water hazard within two club-lengths of and not nearer the hole than (i) the point where the original ball last crossed the margin of the water hazard or (ii) a point on the opposite margin of the water hazard equidistant from the hole.
March 24th, 2010 at 10:02 am
Ryan Gregg writes:
Joe:
B would play the ball from the tee if A’s ball is out of bounds. If they are not sure if the ball was out of bounds, B would play the provisional. If they happen to be playing from two seperate sets of tees, B would play the provisional ball from A’s set of tees. Penalties do not effect the order of play. Rule 29.
March 24th, 2010 at 10:34 am
Michael P. Fleck 2646266 writes:
Where is the preferred location for rakes to be used in a sand bunker?
Please advise.
Thank you.
Mike Fleck
March 24th, 2010 at 4:06 pm
Ryan Gregg writes:
Michael,
The following is from the USGA Rules of Golf Decision Misc./2:
There is not a perfect answer for the position of rakes, but on balance it is felt there is less likelihood of an advantage or disadvantage to the player if rakes are placed outside of bunkers.
It may be argued that there is more likelihood of a ball being deflected into or kept out of a bunker if the rake is placed outside the bunker. It could also be argued that if the rake is in the bunker it is most unlikely that the ball will be deflected out of the bunker.
However, in practice, players who leave rakes in bunkers frequently leave them at the side which tends to stop a ball rolling into the flat part of the bunker, resulting in a much more difficult shot than would otherwise have been the case. This is most prevalent at a course where the bunkers are small. When the ball comes to rest on or against a rake in the bunker and the player must proceed under Rule 24-1, it may not be possible to replace the ball on the same spot or find a spot in the bunker which is not nearer the hole — see Decision 20-3d/2.
If rakes are left in the middle of the bunker, the only way to position them is to throw them into the bunker and this causes damage to the surface. Also, if a rake is in the middle of a large bunker, it is either not used or the player is obliged to rake a large area of the bunker, resulting in unnecessary delay.
Therefore, after considering all these aspects, it is recommended that rakes should be left outside bunkers in areas where they are least likely to affect the movement of the ball.
Ultimately, it is a matter for the Committee to decide where it wishes rakes to be placed.
March 24th, 2010 at 4:15 pm
Walter writes:
We are waiting to tee off on the second tee. Fellow competitor hits some balls from our tee box to the red tee box approximately 80 yards away. I know you can chip and putt on the previous green and around the next tee, providing you aren’t slowing anyone down, but is hitting a 80 yd shot acceptable?
March 25th, 2010 at 11:57 am
Ryan Gregg writes:
Walter,
Rule 7-2 permits a player to practice putting or chipping on or near the next teeing ground of the next hole to be played. An 80 yard shot, unless accidental, would not constitute chipping and would result in a two stroke penalty.
March 25th, 2010 at 12:27 pm
Peter writes:
In the AT&T tournament, AT&T placed a digital board above the green on hole 14 at Pebble. I noticed from the board that the pro is 93 yards away from the pin since there are laser operators relaying this to the tournament. This can clearly be observed by both the pro and the caddy. My question is this not getting “advice” from outside the player or the caddy? Why is it allowed in an official tournament?
March 25th, 2010 at 6:00 pm
Ryan Gregg writes:
Peter,
There is only a violation of advice under Rule 8 if a player, partner or caddie asks for advice. Otherwise, distance information is not considered advice and may be shared. See decision 8-1/2.
March 26th, 2010 at 8:57 am
Glenn writes:
On the green my ball comes to rest blocking another players line. He asks me to mark my ball to the left. I don’t mark the ball first I use the putter head as a reference. instead of moving the ball then marking it I placed the mark on the other side of the putter head with the ball still on the green. One of the other members of the group claimed I broke a rule he said I need to mark the ball then measure then place the ball then mark it, I believed that as long as I repeat the same process to move the ball it was ok.
Can you explain the rule regarding moving your ball out of some ones putting line.
Thanks Glenn
March 29th, 2010 at 10:14 am
Ryan Gregg writes:
Glenn,
Rule 20-1 states that if the ball marker interferes with the play, stance, or stroke of another player, it SHOULD be placed one or more clubhead-lengths to one side. This is only a recommendation. Most importantly, the player must insure that he is getting the ball back in play at the proper location. It is best to use the same procedure when moving the ball or ball marker.
March 30th, 2010 at 8:24 am
John Windle writes:
I putt to the high side of the hole and leave it about 1/4 of an inch away. My partner says “That’s good” as I walk towards the ball, but for some reason (wind?, my foot fall?) the ball drops in. How many putts have I taken? My partner said two as he had conceded the putt: I said one, as my putt dropped.
John,
I assume when you say partner you mean opponent, in match play. Rule 2-4 states that an opponent may concede a stroke at anytime as long as the ball is at rest. However, Rule 16-2 (ball overhanging the hole) states that the ball is not at rest until the player has had enough time to reach the hole and an additional 10 seconds to determine whether or not the ball will fall in the hole. According to your description, I would say the ball was not overhanging the lip of the hole (1/4 inch away) so Rule 16-2 did not apply and the ball was at rest and the concession was valid. If the ball was overhanging the hole I would say that Decision 16-2/2 applies.
April 1st, 2010 at 8:40 am
Coby Dunn writes:
Is there an approved tie breaking rule for net competitions? My NCGA club, The GOATS, have been using the net scores for the back 9, back 6, back 3 or the 18th hole. Is this correct?
Thanks.
April 4th, 2010 at 2:38 pm
Ryan Gregg writes:
Colby,
Appendix I in the USGA Rules of Golf outlines several options for breaking ties and one is to take the last 9 holes, last 6, last 3 and last one. When using handicaps, a percentage of the handicaps should be used.
April 5th, 2010 at 7:48 am
Joe Crosetti writes:
A player is in a green side bunker. He hits his next shot from the bunker over the green into a water hazard. What are his options on his next shot.
April 6th, 2010 at 5:00 pm
lowell cooke writes:
Suppose player A has handicap of +3, B has hdcp of 22 .Is it a fair match 1)if A adjusts to 0 and B to 25 thus B gets 2 strokes on 7 holes plus single stroke on other 11 or 2) B has to adjust index to 18.4 which is handicap of 19 then A becomes 0 B gets 1 stroke a hole except 2 on hardest hole or 3) something else ? This pertains to matches amongst regulars and leave aside all first tee wrangling. I would just like to know what is fairest method. Your thoughts please
Thanks
April 7th, 2010 at 11:54 am
Ryan Gregg writes:
Joe,
#1 Play a ball as nearly as possible to the spot from which the original ball was last played. Which means the player would have to drop a ball in the bunker. #2 Drop a ball behind the water hazard, keeping the point at which the ball last crossed the margin of the water hazard directly between the hole and the spot on which the ball is dropped, with no limit to how far behind the water hazard the ball may be dropped; or #3 As additional options available only if the ball last crossed the margin of a lateral water hazard (red stake or line), drop a ball outside the water hazard within two club-lengths of and not nearer the hole than the point where the original ball last crossed the margin of the water hazard; or #4 a point on the opposite margin of the water hazard equidistant from the hole. In all four options you will be dropping the ball and receiving a one-stroke penalty.
April 7th, 2010 at 11:58 am
Ryan Gregg writes:
Lowell,
The +3 would play to 0 and the 22 would would receive 25 strokes. B gets 2 strokes on the 7 hardest holes plus a single stroke on other 11. If their is a maximum index requirement, the higher handicap player will still get the difference. The +3 will play to 0 and the 19 will be adjusted to a 22. 2 strokes on the handicapped holes 1-4.
April 7th, 2010 at 12:04 pm
Ed writes:
The following incident occurred in a friendly game so it was resolved without knowing the rules. How would it be resolved in a tournament situation? Player A and B both mark their balls on the green, then wait for the following group to play up. When A and B return to putt their balls they realize they have both used dimes as a ball maker and they are not sure whose dimes is whose, whose ball is whose. Now what?
April 9th, 2010 at 6:42 am
Ryan Gregg writes:
Ed,
Good question! There is no decision or rule that contemplates this situation. I actually called the USGA for there interpretation. In equity, the players will use the ball marker that is furthest from the hole as their reference and both be putting from there, without penalty.
April 9th, 2010 at 8:25 am
Ed writes:
Thanks. I was expecting the answer to be like Decision 27/10 which sure would have been painful.
April 9th, 2010 at 4:23 pm
Shaun Slaugenhaupt writes:
A situation came up in a two man team match play. I hit the opposing players ball and he did the same without noticing. My partner didn’t finish the hole (2 O.B). The other guys partner was on in 4 but didn’t finish hole because I made a 5 with a stroke and won the hole without noticing the different balls. All four tee off on the next hole and precede to hit our 2nd shots. That’s when we finally made the discovery that the wrong balls were hit on the last hole. He claims they won the hole because his partner could have 10 putt and win the hole since I was DQ’d from the hole and my partner was in his pocket with an X. I say we win the hole because we were declared the winners of that hole and no penalty was called before we all tee’d off on the next hole. We still won the match but we played an extra hole for nothing. Who is correct here?
April 11th, 2010 at 5:27 pm
Ryan Gregg writes:
Shaun,
When you hit the wrong ball you were disqualified from the hole. Your opponent also was disqualified from the hole when he hit the wrong ball. Since you gave wrong information to your opponent which caused him to lift the ball, their side won the hole. See Decision 30-3c/3. Once the discovery was made, it is new information and the oppenents have a right to make a claim at that time. Regardless if it is on the next hole. Rule 9-2.
April 12th, 2010 at 8:01 am
Walter writes:
I am taking relief from a cart path. My nearest point of relief will leave me under a staked tree ( within two club lengths of my relief point the tree is still in my swing) since I am entitled to relief from both situations can I skip dropping from the cart path and just take relief from the staked tree? ( trying to expedite the process)
thanks
April 19th, 2010 at 4:50 pm
Ryan Gregg writes:
Walter,
If your nearest point of relief from the cart path puts you in a situation in which you would be interfered with by the staked tree and the nearest point of relief from the staked tree would put you back on the cart path, you may find your nearest point of relief that satisfies relief from both the cart path and the staked tree. See Decision 1-4/8. If this is not the case, you must deal with each situation separately.
April 20th, 2010 at 9:08 am
david writes:
Is it okay for a player in taking relief from a water hazard to drop on a cart path that is properly in line with the margin crossing point and the flagstick? And then, after seeing what happens with the cart path drop, take relief, if he should wish, from the cart path?
April 21st, 2010 at 8:00 am
Ryan Gregg writes:
David,
Yes, a player may drop onto a cart path when taking releif from a water hazard. Once dropped, if there is interference, the player may take releif as prescribed in Rule 24-2.
April 21st, 2010 at 8:19 am
Kathy Scales writes:
We were playing at Cinnabar Hills, not a competition match, just a regular round of golf. My husband’s ball came to rest in long rough practically on top of another ball (that obviously had not been found by a previous group, given the thickness of the rough it was in). He moved his ball to a similar lie and took the shot. should he have been given relief? Did he have to play it as it lay, on top of the other ball?
April 22nd, 2010 at 7:30 pm
Ryan Gregg writes:
Kathy,
The abandoned ball is a movable obstruction, Rule 24-1 applies. See Decision 24-1/2. If the ball lies on the obstruction, the ball may be lifted and the obstruction removed and the ball must be dropped as near as possible to the spot directly under the place where the ball lay on the obstruction.
April 23rd, 2010 at 7:58 am
Desmond writes:
In a stroke play event, my friend drove his ball into thick bush on the right on a dog-leg right par 4. He played a provisional ball cautiously onto the fairway about 30 yards shorter than his original ball would be. He went ahead to search for his original ball and quickly found a ball inside the thick bush which he declared as his original ball and declared the ball unplayable. He dropped a ball within 2 club lengths of the found ball and hit it to within 10 yards off the green. On his way back to pick up his provisional ball, about 10 yards behind where he played the dropped ball, he found a ball in the rough which he identified as his correct original ball. We all were sure that was within 5 minutes of him starting the search for his original ball. There was no referee for this small event and he was allowed to continue with his correct original ball. Would this be right ? Would appreciate some explanations..thank you.
April 24th, 2010 at 9:19 pm
Doug writes:
Great article, I enjoy the logic and reasoning for the responses. I think that in the case of the “lost” ball being found that the player should have incurred a penalty for playing the wrong ball, but allowed to play the original (aka “lost” ball that was found) as he did not declared that ball as lost and proceed with the provisional as the ball in play.
April 28th, 2010 at 11:22 am
Ryan Gregg writes:
Desmond,
I hope you were playing Match Play! Based on what you described, the player had played a wrong ball when he continued with the original and, in stroke play, when he played a stroke on the next hole he was disqualified.
The closest applicable decision that I can find for this situation is Decision 15/14. The procedures in Rules 28b and 28c may not be applied except with reference to the position of the player’s ball in play, and this must first be found and identified (see Decision 28/1). Before proceeding under option b or c of Rule 28, the player should ensure he is doing so with reference to his ball in play. The player was permitted to identify the ball following the procedure in Rule 12-2 or, having lifted it under Rule 28, could have inspected the ball to verify that it was his ball in play. In this case, the ball dropped and played by the player was not his original ball; it was a substituted ball. Since the location of the original ball was not known at the time the substituted ball was dropped, he was required to proceed under Rule 27-1. As the substituted ball was not dropped at the spot required by Rule 27-1, he played from a wrong place (see Decision 28/15) and the original ball was lost.
In match play, he incurred a penalty of loss of hole (Rule 20-7b).
In stroke play, he incurred a penalty of one stroke under Rule 27-1 and an additional penalty of two strokes under Rule 20-7c for playing from a wrong place with the abandoned ball. Since the breach was a serious one, he is subject to disqualification unless he corrected his error. When he played a stoke at his original ball it was a wrong ball and he must correct the error. The player would have to go back to where he had picked up his provisional ball and place a ball at that spot and would be playing his 9th stroke (original tee shot; one penalty stroke under Rule 27-1 for the original ball; the tee shot with the provisional ball; two stroke penalty for the wrong place and improper substitution with the stray ball Rule 15-2 & 20-7; two stroke penalty for playing a stroke at the original ball which was a wrong ball Rule 15-3 and a one stroke penalty for picking up his provisional ball 18-2a).
April 28th, 2010 at 11:45 am
david writes:
A player hits a tee shot unto a very soft green and the ball embeds in its own pitch mark such that even after careful repair, the spot is dented such that the ball will probably bounce or hop when it is putted. Does such a situation qualify as an altered lie thus giving the player relief under 20-3b?
April 30th, 2010 at 9:56 am
Ryan Gregg writes:
David,
20-3b would not apply. The player would have to fix the embed mark the best he could.
April 30th, 2010 at 10:30 am
Desmond writes:
Dear Ryan,
I thank you for and refer to your answer to my question above, the first part of your answer where you said,
” Since the location of the original ball was not known at the time the substituted ball was dropped, he was required to proceed under Rule 27-1. As the substituted ball was not dropped at the spot required by Rule 27-1, he played from a wrong place (see Decision 28/15) and the original ball was lost.
In match play, he incurred a penalty of loss of hole (Rule 20-7b).
In stroke play, he incurred a penalty of one stroke under Rule 27-1 and an additional penalty of two strokes under Rule 20-7c for playing from a wrong place with the abandoned ball. Since the breach was a serious one, he is subject to disqualification unless he corrected his error. ”
was well understood and was in fact our first response to the player when he found his correct original ball. We told him his original is deemed lost by his substituting a ball and he has to abandon the original ball. By Rule 27-1, he will have to go back to the tee to play another ball in order to correct his serious breach. It was not until another player in the group told us that the substituted ball was illegally substituted for the provisional ball and not for the original ball. He said once the player has played a provisional ball from the tee, he cannot substitute a ball for his original ball, he has to find his original ball and if not found the provisional ball would be in play. Since the substituted ball was for the provisional ball, the provisional ball is out of play and the substituted ball becomes the provisional ball. As we were all confused by all these argument, the player said since his original ball was found within the 5 minutes allowed, everything that has to do with the provisional ball and the provisional ball itself should be abandoned and his original ball still in play.
Anyway, the player did not win any prize so no harm done.
For conclusion, before the player played the original ball, if a referee was there, he would have asked the player to go back to the tee and play his 5th stroke, 1 tee shot for the original ball, one for Rule 27-1 penalty, and 2 strokes for playing from a wrong place. If he had played the original ball, he would have played a wrong ball and he would still be required to go back to the tee as above but add 2 strokes penalty for playing a wrong ball.
I could not understand the second part of your answer where you said:
” When he played a stoke at his original ball it was a wrong ball and he must correct the error. The player would have to go back to where he had picked up his provisional ball and place a ball at that spot and would be playing his 9th stroke (original tee shot; one penalty stroke under Rule 27-1 for the original ball; the tee shot with the provisional ball; two stroke penalty for the wrong place and improper substitution with the stray ball Rule 15-2 & 20-7; two stroke penalty for playing a stroke at the original ball which was a wrong ball Rule 15-3 and a one stroke penalty for picking up his provisional ball 18-2a).”
But I will try to read deeper into it and see if I could understand more.
April 30th, 2010 at 6:57 pm
Lucille Rhodes writes:
A competitor in a mens club tournament mistakenly posted his teams
score on the scorecard reversing the nines. But writing the word front on the back nine of the card and writing the word back on the front nine of the card. Is this within the rules.
May 6th, 2010 at 6:37 pm
Ryan Gregg writes:
Desmond,
When the player dropped the abandoned ball from the bush he was substituting a ball and the original was lost as soon as he made a stroke at the dropped ball. See definition of lost ball. Since he gained a significant advantage in distance by playing the substituted ball from a wrong place he was required to correct it prior to starting the play of the next hole. To fix the error he would have to go back to where he had picked up the provisional and proceed from there. Unfortunately, in the case you described, the player did not correct the error and should be disqualified.
May 7th, 2010 at 7:54 am
Ryan Gregg writes:
Lucille,
As long as the Committee understands the player’s intention and the status of the holes played, there would be no penalty and the scores would stand. See Decision 6-6a/3.
May 7th, 2010 at 8:06 am
david writes:
A player hits a shot into a area of trees between two fairways. He searches for five minutes then heads back to hit a second ball from the previous spot. As he is heading back another player drives up in a cart and states that he had picked up the first player’s ball a few minutes previously and just realized that it might be a ball in play. The question: Is the player out of luck and rules are rules, or since the original ball was moved (temporarily stolen) by an outside agency before five minutes expired, is there any way the player can proceed under 18-1 instead of 27-1?
May 11th, 2010 at 2:44 pm
Ryan Gregg writes:
David,
Unfortunately, the ball was lost after the five minutes permitted to search had expired. See definition of lost ball and Decision 27/6.
May 11th, 2010 at 3:12 pm
Maurice A. Kaz writes:
Is there a penalty for laying a rake in the sand and laying the putter handle across the rake to keep it clean. The rake was about 15 feet away from where the ball was.
May 12th, 2010 at 1:47 pm
Ryan Gregg writes:
Maurice,
Exception 1 to Rule 13-4 states that a player may place his clubs in the hazard (including bunkers) without penalty. Even if it is on the rake.
May 12th, 2010 at 3:08 pm
RAY ZANINI writes:
HI, THIS HAPPENED TO ME. WHILE IN THE PROCESS AND PRIOR TO MARKING MY BALL ON THE GREEN, MY SKY CADDIE FELL OUT OF MY SHIRT POCKET AND MOVED THE BALL. THE BALL WAS REPLACED TO THE EXACT SPOT AND MARKED. AM I PENALIZED? IF SO HOW MANY STROKES. THANK YOU FOR YOUR RESPONSE.
May 15th, 2010 at 6:39 am
Desmond writes:
Dear Ryan,
In a club annual championship, Note 2 to Rule 7-2 was adopted. A player after completing the first 9 holes found that he has to wait 30 minutes before he could continue play on the 10th tee. He went to the nearby driving range to hit a few balls and then to the practice green to practice putting. Did he infringe any rule?
May 15th, 2010 at 6:43 pm
Ryan Gregg writes:
Ray,
You are penalized one-stroke for causing your ball to move under Rule 18-2a.
May 17th, 2010 at 8:03 am
Ryan Gregg writes:
Desmond,
The player was penalized two-strokes in stroke play or loss of hole in match play under Rule 7-2. A player is not entitled to play a practice stroke during the round. The penalty would be applied to the 10th hole.
May 17th, 2010 at 8:09 am
david writes:
A player hits a 200+ tee shot just off the fairway. Before his group leaves the tee to go play second shots a player from another hole picks up the player’s ball checking to see if it is his. The second player, seeing it is not his ball, tosses the ball back in the same sort of lie it was in previously and more or less in the same area. Now, the question: what should the player do about Rule 18-1? The ball has been moved by an outside agency, but because the moving took place at a distance of 200+ yards it is impossible to tell if the ball has been returned to the proper spot. Should the player make a guess as to the right spot and drop the ball or just play the ball from where it is now located?
May 18th, 2010 at 2:53 pm
Ryan Gregg writes:
David,
If the player knows the lie and location he would replace the ball. See Rule 20-3a. If he is not sure of the lie and location than he would drop the ball as near as possible to the estimated spot. See Rule 20-3c. It may be necessary to get the outside agency involved as to where the ball was when it was picked up. If the player does not have enough evidence to support the fact that the ball had been moved from its original lie and location the ball should be played as it lies.
May 18th, 2010 at 3:08 pm
Chris Thom writes:
A player hits a ball next to another players ball in the fairway. The other player asks for the ball to be marked as not to hit it while striking his ball. When the ball is placed back the player that hit noticed that a long line on the ball is positioned more toward the intended line of flight that when the ball was marked. Is there any violation? Does the ball have to be placed EXACTLY back as it rested before marking? Is it possible to align the the mark to coincide with the intended ball flight without penalty?
May 19th, 2010 at 5:39 pm
Ryan Gregg writes:
Chris,
The ball may be put back in any orientation that the player wishes. See decision 20-3a/2 and 20/5.
May 20th, 2010 at 8:26 am
david writes:
I’ve been led to believe that using the flagstick to steady or support oneself while making a stroke is a rule violation. If so, what rule is breached? Is it an example of 13-3 building a stance for a two stroke penalty or is it 14-2 accept physical assistance for a two stroke penalty or is it 14-3 unusual use of equipment, a dq penalty? Or is it some other rule? And what is the penalty?
May 20th, 2010 at 4:42 pm
Ed writes:
Ryan,
One addition to Chris’s question and your answer about orienting the ball: see Decision 21/5 regarding replacing a ball with mud on it. The ball can not be teed on the clump of mud.
May 20th, 2010 at 4:49 pm
Ryan Gregg writes:
David,
Decision 17-1/5 states that a player may hold the flagstick in one hand and may put with the other. Decision 14-3/9 states that a player may not use a club to steady himself to make a stroke. If a player uses a flagstick to steady himself while making a stroke it would be disqualification under 14-3.
May 20th, 2010 at 4:50 pm
Ed writes:
Please help with a version of Decision 13-2/28. If the balls of Player A and B are lying very near each other and Player A walks through the bunker for no acceptable reason (as clarified in Dec. 13-2/29 and/29.3). According to Dec. 13-2/28 A can not smooth the bunker where he had walked, but what about Player B? Isn’t he entitled to the line of play he had when his ball came to rest? If so, he should be able to smooth the bunker. And if he did so and played before A, would A have to recreate the messed up bunker or would he be able to take advantage of B’s raking rights? Or would A be required to play before B raked the bunker? And, if that should be the case, what happens in match play when certain order of play is mandatory?
May 22nd, 2010 at 4:10 pm
Joe Crosetti writes:
I hit a ball into the bunker and the ball is resting next to a rock as big as the ball. May I remove the rock before I hit the ball?
May 24th, 2010 at 1:22 pm
Ryan Gregg writes:
Joe,
Rocks are loose impediments and may not be removed when your ball lies in the same bunker. See Rule 13-4. However, the Committee may choose to adopt the local rule in Appendix I to grant relief from stones in the bunker. Without the Local Rule in effect, you must either play the ball as it lies or declare it unplayable.
May 24th, 2010 at 4:07 pm
Ryan Gregg writes:
Ed,
Sorry for the delayed response. Good question.
Player B would be permitted to smooth the bunker, because he would be entitled to the lie his ball had when it came to rest (See Decision 13-4/18). Whether or not it was B’s turn to play he was entitled to rake the bunker either before or after Player A played and if the raking improved A’s situation there is no penalty. I cannot find a decision to support my answer, but I feel that the player’s right to restore his lie would take precedence. There is no direction on the order in which a player would restore his lie. Another theory is that if Player B plays first, then Player A would have to recreate his lie (recreating the footprints) prior to playing from the bunker. If Player A asked Player B to restore his line prior to playing for the sole purpose of improving his situation, and Player B obliges, both players would be penalized two strokes (Decision 13-2/36) and if the Committee feels that the violation is a serious breach of Rule 1-2, the players could be disqualified (see Decision 1-2/2). I am not real confident in my answer and have discussed the issue with the staff at the USGA. They do not have a definitive answer at this time, but will respond when they do. I will update the answer if anything changes. Some additional decisions ….13-2/29.5, 13-2/8.7, 13-4/19.
May 25th, 2010 at 3:37 pm
Bob writes:
Ryan,
This occurred at Poppy Hills hole #12 par 5. There is a drainage culvert (with a very porous grate) on the cart path behind the green. My shot played from the left front bunker rolled over the green, onto the cart path, down the cart path, and into the bottom on the culvert. gone.
When a ball falls into a drainage culvert, and is not retrievable, is it played as an unplayable lie (with penalty) or as if it were on the cart path?
Bob
May 27th, 2010 at 8:19 am
Diane writes:
I was playing from the 2nd set of ladies tees (but it can apply to men’s, too) and on one hole, the markers for the second set were switched with the most forward set. My cart partner said I had to play from the further tee box since that’s where the marker should have been but I thought I should play from forwards or I’d be penalized for playing from the wrong set. Which was the correct tee box?
June 1st, 2010 at 7:42 am
Ryan Gregg writes:
Bob,
Note 2 to Rule 24-2 applies. If the ball is not immediately recoverable, another ball may be substituted. The grate is considered part of the cart path and you may take relief without penalty.
June 1st, 2010 at 9:34 am
Ryan Gregg writes:
Diane,
It is the Committee’s responsibility to make sure that the tee markers are in their proper location. When there is a question, the player should contact a member of the committee for clarification. If a committee person is not available you may want to play two balls under Rule 3-3. In your situation, I would recommend you play from the same color tees that you had played on previous holes. Playing from any other set would be a violation of 11-4.
June 1st, 2010 at 9:42 am
Phillip L Sexton writes:
Ryan:
Under rule 25-1. It states that a ball is in ground under repair if it lies in or touches a ground under repair margin line. My question is if a ball is outside the margin of the ground under repair and your stance puts you inside the margin do you get relief even if your stance or swing is not affected.
Thanks,
Phil
June 4th, 2010 at 2:17 pm
Ryan Gregg writes:
Phil,
I believe you are reading the definition of Ground Under Repair.
Rule 25-1a states:
Interference by an abnormal ground condition occurs when a ball lies in or touches the condition or when the condition interferes with the player’s stance or the area of his intended swing. If the player’s ball lies on the putting green, interference also occurs if an abnormal ground condition on the putting green intervenes on his line of putt. Otherwise, intervention on the line of play is not, of itself, interference under this Rule.
June 4th, 2010 at 3:02 pm
Ed writes:
Please expand a bit on your answer to Phil. Let’s say a white GUR line has been drawn around a tree that has fallen down and a player’s ball is outside the line, but his stance is inside the line. I had thought that the player would get relief if his stance was on or inside the line no matter whether interference existed from the tree. So, am I reading your answer correctly that stance only (not ball) inside the GUR gets the player relief only if there is actual interference with the stance or swing? Similarly, if a wet muddy area has been circled in white and the ball is outside the line, but the stance is inside the line, would the player get relief?
June 5th, 2010 at 8:22 am
Ryan Gregg writes:
Ed,
The definition of Ground Under Repair includes the lines defining it. If a player has interference from the line for his stance, lie of ball, or area of intended swing; he is entitled to relief. See definition of Ground Under Repair and Rule 25.
June 6th, 2010 at 8:04 pm
John Ryan writes:
Is a rules official (allowed, prohibited, encouraged — pick one) from telling a player that what he is about to do is against the rules before the infraction actually takes place?
June 10th, 2010 at 8:14 am
Ryan Gregg writes:
John,
Good question. Decision 34-2/3 States that a referee may inform a player that he is about to break a Rule, however he is under no obligation to do so. A referee is one who is appointed by the Committee to accompany player to decide questions of fact and apply the Rules. He must act on any breach of a Rule that he observes or is reported to him. Referees should strive to prevent violations by advising or reminding players of their rights.
June 10th, 2010 at 1:36 pm
Ed writes:
A player’s ball is in a water hazard. To make sure the ball is his, he properly announces, marks and lifts the ball for identification. However, he cleans it well beyond what is necessary for identification. He replaces the ball and plays it out of the hazard. In that case, I assume he gets a one stroke penalty. If, after replacing the ball, he decides instead to proceed under some Rule 26 option, does he still get the cleaning penalty?
June 11th, 2010 at 8:15 am
Ryan Gregg writes:
Ed,
The player would receive a one-stroke penalty under Rule 12-2 and if he elected to take relief from the water hazard, he would receive an additional one-stroke penalty under Rule 26. Principle 5 of Decision 1-4/12 would also apply.
June 11th, 2010 at 9:21 am
Carol Morgan writes:
After striking my ball it hit my golg bag, bouncing off to then hit me. Does this occur a 1 shot penalty as I only struck the ball once or is it a 2 shot penaly as 2 infringements were made?
June 13th, 2010 at 11:07 am
Ryan Gregg writes:
Carol,
It is a one stroke penalty under Rule 19-2. See decision 19-2/7.
June 14th, 2010 at 6:09 am
Alan Close writes:
After finishing a match tied, I discovered that my opponent’s index had changed the day before the match which was played on June 16. We played the match under the assumption that I would give him 7 strokes based on his June 1 index. His June 15 index indicates a 5 stroke difference. Based on that difference I would have won the match by 1 stroke. Can we reconstruct the match based on the new numbers, or must the match stand as played.
June 17th, 2010 at 8:18 am
tom hayes writes:
if i am a rightie but a left hander’s stance would be impeded, can i drop and then hit the ensuing ball right handed?
June 17th, 2010 at 3:40 pm
Ryan Gregg writes:
Alan,
You and your opponent should have verified your handicaps prior to the start of the match. Rule 6-2. When you started the match you had agreed to the 7 strokes (See decision 6-2a/1). The match stands as played, unless you can prove that your opponent knowingly played to the wrong handicap. See decision 6-2a/5. In that case the player would be disqualified from the competition.
June 18th, 2010 at 8:52 am
Ryan Gregg writes:
Tom,
I am not completely clear on your question. I think you are talking about the situation described in decision 24-2b/17:
Q. A right-handed player’s ball is so close to a boundary fence on the left of a hole that the player, in order to play towards the hole, must play left-handed. In playing a left-handed stroke, the player’s backswing would be interfered with by an immovable obstruction. Is the player entitled to relief from the obstruction?
A. The player is entitled to relief since employment of an abnormal (left-handed) stroke is necessary in the circumstances — see Exception under Rule 24-2b.
The proper procedure is for the player to take relief for a left-handed stroke in accordance with Rule 24-2b(i).
The player may then use a normal right-handed swing for his next stroke. If the obstruction interferes with the swing or stance for the right-handed stroke, the player may take relief for the right-handed stroke in accordance with Rule 24-2b(i).
June 18th, 2010 at 9:00 am
Larry Speck writes:
I was recently in a 4-man Scramble tournament in Reno, where you have an A, B, C, D handicapped players on a team, and you take turns playing the best ball of the team thru the hole for the score. While waiting to tee off on the next hole, I noticed that one or two of the players in the group ahead would hit their balls and before the rest of the team hit their shots would take their cart down the fair way to see where their balls landed and would signal back that it was okay and then the other players would hit their balls. As the A player for my own team, I didn’t think that was appropriate, but other than etiquette, undue delay, or envoking the provisional ball rule, I couldn’t find a rule to indicate it was a violation of the rules. Could you lend a hand here? Because if there isn’t any kind of violation, I might be tempted to start doing that same thing.
Thanks, Larry
June 19th, 2010 at 10:38 am
Ryan Gregg writes:
Larry,
You will not find any rule in the Rules of Golf about Scrambles. If this seems unfair to you, than I would tell the Committee in charge of the event to write it in their rules of play to disallow it. Otherwise, teams may do what they wish.
June 20th, 2010 at 9:36 pm
Frustrated Skins Player (aka: Shar) writes:
Maybe you won’t be able to answer this since it’s a gambling question but I thought I’d try anyways. When playing skins in a co-ed golf tournament where men play from the whites tees and ladies play from red tees how should the skins be determined? Should they be calculated separately or use one handicap?
Scenario:
A woman gets 12 strokes for her handicap level. On hole #12 which is the 12th hardest hole for the red tees she pars the hole with a 4 giving her a net score of 3.
However, hole #12 for the white tees is the 15th hardest hole so when the skins are calculated (using the white tees handicaps) she gets no stroke giving her a net 4.
No one else in the league net birdies hole #12 so had the handicap of the red tees been used instead of the white tees she would have won the skins for that hole with her net 3.
Which handicaps should be used? Or is it just not possible for men and woman to play in the same game of skins when they play from different tees?
June 21st, 2010 at 12:03 pm
Jim writes:
Can you lean against a tree in a hazard to hit your ball. ( red stakes)
June 28th, 2010 at 3:45 pm
Ryan Gregg writes:
Jim,
There is nothing in the Rules of Golf that prohibit a player from leaning against a tree to make a stroke when the ball lies in a hazard.
June 29th, 2010 at 8:39 am
Mario writes:
After flying over a par 3 my ball rest 2 inches from a residental street in which is marked OB with white stakes, my stance puts my back foot in the street. Do I get relief?
July 2nd, 2010 at 10:56 pm
Sherry writes:
I hit a ball that is close to OB, so I decided to hit a provisional. Later, I did find my first ball but it was stuck in long dry grass. Can I declared it as unplayable? If so, how do I count my strokes?
July 15th, 2010 at 7:34 am
Robert Grisnak writes:
In taking a practice swing I accidentally hit the golf ball, do I hit
the ball where it sits, replace the ball to its original position,
take a one stroke penalty, no penalty or swallow my pride.
July 15th, 2010 at 8:07 am
Ryan Gregg writes:
Mario,
See the definition of obstructions “Any part of an immovable artificial object that is out of bounds” is not an obstruction. You would not be entitled to relief.
July 15th, 2010 at 8:55 am
Ryan Gregg writes:
Sherry,
When you found your original ball, you must proceed with it and your provisional ball is out of play. When you declare the original ball unplayable you have three options under penalty of one stroke(see Rule 28). If you were to drop two club-lengths (Rule 28c) from where the ball lies you would be playing your third stroke.
July 15th, 2010 at 9:02 am
Ryan Gregg writes:
Robert,
A practice swing is not a stroke. When you accidentally caused your ball to move it is a one-stroke penalty under Rule 18-2a and the ball must be replaced.
July 15th, 2010 at 9:05 am
walter jagielski writes:
can the caddy brush a leaf off the players line when putting?
July 15th, 2010 at 10:49 am
Ryan Gregg writes:
Walter,
Decision 6-4/10 states that a caddie may remove loose impediments on the line of putt or elsewhere – Rules 16-1a and 23-1.
July 15th, 2010 at 11:02 am
walter jagielski writes:
Thanks Ryan, one last question. while removing the loose impediment, the caddie’s hand slightly touched the line, ie., the grass on the line. Is that a loss of hole in match play?
July 15th, 2010 at 11:42 am
Ryan Gregg writes:
Walter,
The caddie may touch the line with his hand or otherwise when removing loose impediments. He may not press anything down. See Rule 16-1a(i).
July 15th, 2010 at 11:49 am
mike bailey writes:
Hello and good morning,
I have a 2-part question:
A green has 2 sand traps, one on either side (right and left). A players ball is in the right bunker. Can that player ground his club in the left bunker with out penalty?
Part 2 and the reason for part 1.
Players ball is in the right bunker. He hits it out only to go into the left bunker on the other side of the green. In discust, while still standing in the right bunker, he smacks the sand with his club. Has he grounded the club and is there a penalty?
Thank you.
Mike Bailey
July 17th, 2010 at 11:38 am
Ryan Gregg writes:
Mike,
Part 1 – No. See Rule 13-4a. A player may not test the condition of a similar hazard.
part 2 – No penalty. Exception #3 states that once a player has played the ball out of a hazard and the ball comes to rest in another hazard he may do anything he wants in the first hazard.
July 17th, 2010 at 5:54 pm
Jeanette writes:
Golfer hits his tee shot. In the fairway he inadvertently hits the wrong ball. Replaces the wrong ball; then spends five minutes looking for his own ball, but can’t find it, so he goes back to the tee box and hits again. Do you compound penalties? Two for hitting the wrong ball; one for the lost ball and now he’s hitting four off the tee box?
July 19th, 2010 at 12:04 pm
Ryan Gregg writes:
Jeanette,
Yes, that is correct. The player has incurred a total of three penalty strokes. Two for playing the wrong ball (Rule 15-3) and one for the lost ball (Rule 27).
July 19th, 2010 at 2:40 pm
Randy writes:
I’m playing a round, and my friend has a new driver. I’m dying to try it. On one hole, I hit my drive to an area where I can’t see if my ball is in play or not (say it went behind some trees into some long grass). I play a provisional for a lost ball, and use my friend’s driver. I end up finding my original ball, which cancels the ‘provisional’ stroke. Does this also cancel any penalty I would get for playing a stroke with someone else’s driver?
July 21st, 2010 at 11:11 am
Ryan Gregg writes:
Randy,
There is no penalty, as long as the provisional ball does not become the ball in play. See Decision 5-1/3.
July 21st, 2010 at 1:23 pm
Brody Gill writes:
I was playing in a jgnc jr. golf tournament and one of the kid was using a rangefinder. I asked to see if you could for future references and he looked like he was doing it kind of like he was sneeking it. So can you use a rangefinder or gps in a jgnc tournament or any tournament?
July 21st, 2010 at 3:43 pm
Ryan Gregg writes:
Brody,
I believe that electronic distance measuring devices are permitted in JGANC events. If electronic distances measuring devices were permitted in an event, then it would be in writing on either the Conditions of Competition or the Local Rules. Each tournament may have its own set of conditions and Local Rules and you should always read them prior to playing in an event. Rule 6 in the Rules of Golf says that it is the player’s responsibility to know the Rules.
July 21st, 2010 at 7:07 pm
Carol Morgan writes:
When juniors are playing in a competition should they all play off the same tees, regardless of handicap.
Recently a stableford competition was held with some juniors playing off whites and some off red tees and the problem came with entering scores for handicap purposes as the stroke index is different from these tees.
Also what handicap should be attained for the juniors to switch from red to yellow tees for general play.
July 22nd, 2010 at 5:50 am
charles f castro writes:
I Charles F. Castro have been a member for a lot of years. My NCGA # is 6159479. Question please reply. When a player marks his ball on the green and is ask to move the marker and forgets to move the marker back.What is the ruleing. My understanding is a player is to be notified of the infraction before he tees of on the next hole or before he lives the golf course so he can corect his mistake and take a penalty or he can not be penalized. please respond Yours truly charles f castro
July 22nd, 2010 at 8:03 pm
Ryan Gregg writes:
Carol,
Whether juniors or adults; when players compete from different sets of tees in the same competition the difference in course rating must be applied to the player’s handicap. If there are no handicaps being used than the players should be broken into separate flights so they are competing on the same golf course throughout the competition.
July 23rd, 2010 at 9:09 am
Ryan Gregg writes:
Charles,
When the player moves his mark (or ball), fails to replace it and plays a stroke. The player has played from a wrong place and the ball is holed. See Rule 20-7. Only, if there is a serious breach (significant advantage gained), does the player have to correct the error prior to teeing off on the next hole.
July 23rd, 2010 at 9:14 am
Carol Morgan writes:
When doing a card for handicap purposes, does the marker himself have to have a legitmate handicap or can any responsible person mark the card?
July 29th, 2010 at 11:13 am
Ed writes:
I noticed on a green today what looked like an old hole plug except that it was at least two inches greater in diameter than a usual hole plug. It is either a repair job on a poorly replaced old hole or it is a sod plug of some sort for a badly damaged area of the green. Whatever it may be, could it be repaired under Rule 16-1c?
July 30th, 2010 at 4:50 pm
Darryl Barnes writes:
Rule 10 (Order of Play) states that the ball furthest from the hole is played first.
1) can you and your opponent agree to change the order for a particular shot? …say in order to speed up play.
2) can you go ahead and hole out a short putt with or without permission from your opponent?
August 1st, 2010 at 9:21 pm
Ryan Gregg writes:
Carol,
I am not sure I fully understand your question. A “Marker” under the Rules of Golf can be anybody assigned by the committee. See definition of Marker.
August 2nd, 2010 at 1:20 pm
Ryan Gregg writes:
Ed,
The areas that you have described may not be repaired under Rule 16-1c. Only ball marks and old hole plugs may be repaired on the putting green. Any other damage that might assist the player in his subsequent play of the hole may not be repaired. The player may request to have it fixed by someone on the Committee or the Committee may declare the area to be ground under repair.
August 2nd, 2010 at 1:27 pm
Ryan Gregg writes:
Darryl,
In match play, the order of play is extremely important. There is no penalty for playing out of turn, however the oponent may recall the stroke. Players may not agree to play out of turn to speed up play or for other reasons. The violation for agreeing to do so would result in disqualification of both players (see Rule 1-3). If a player taps in a short putt there is no penalty, but the oponent still has the right to recall the stroke.
August 2nd, 2010 at 1:32 pm
Scott writes:
What is the penalty in a match play event if a player A plays 2 balls under Rule 3-3, which only comes into effect for Stroke play? I assume the score with the original ball must count, and if the player uses the score from the 2nd ball he will lose the hole. Does Player B need to lodge a protest before the play of the next hole, or will the Committee take action when the players come in fro a ruling? If Player B does not lodge a protest, which of Player A’s scores is used?
August 3rd, 2010 at 10:20 pm
Ryan Gregg writes:
Scott,
The score with the original ball would count unless player B made a claim, then he would win the hole. See Decision 3-3/9.
August 4th, 2010 at 8:45 am
Warren writes:
From the fairway I hit a blind shot to the green over a large mound. The shot appeared to land short and I believed it to be in a lake over the mound but short of the green. I dropped short of the lake and hit a provisional to the green. When I got to green I found my original ball which was not visiable until I reached the green. Since I had not played a shot from beyond my original ball I beleive my original ball was still in play. My playing partners thought my provisional was in play. That seemed wrong because I would have had to walk all the way to the green to confirm the ball was in the lake? Help
August 4th, 2010 at 3:58 pm
Shelia writes:
In today’s golf round, a player hit her ball across a water hazard (marked by yellow stakes), across the green, into a bunker behind the green. Her second shot went across the green and into the hazard. I thought she had a couple of drop options but the other two players said she had to drop back in the sand. What are the options for dropping if you are behind the green and hit into the hazard in front of the green? Thanks,
August 4th, 2010 at 5:52 pm
Ryan Gregg writes:
Warren,
Rule 27-2 states that a player may play a provisional ball if the original ball may be lost OUTSIDE a water hazard. Unfortunately, you must make that walk up to the green to determine if the ball cleared the hazard, otherwise the ball you dropped and played is the ball in play. See Decision 27-2a/2.
August 5th, 2010 at 3:40 pm
Ryan Gregg writes:
Sheila,
If it is known or virtually certain that the ball has come to rest in a water hazard (yellow stakes) you should proceed under Rule 26 which is the water hazard rule. As such, you can take relief from the hazard with a penalty of one stroke using one of the options described in Rule 26.
OPTIONS UNDER RULE 26:
#1 Play the ball as it lies in the water hazard. #2 Play a ball as nearly as possible to the spot from which the original ball was last played. (Which means the player would have to drop a ball in the bunker). #3 Drop a ball behind the water hazard, keeping the point at which the ball last crossed the margin of the water hazard directly between the hole and the spot on which the ball is dropped, with no limit to how far behind the water hazard the ball may be dropped; options #2 and #3 the player incurs a one-stroke penalty.
August 5th, 2010 at 3:52 pm
Scott writes:
In either a stroke or match play event, when does a withdrawal become official? If a player decides to withdraw during the course of play in a stroke tournament, at what point is the player actually out? Can he change his mind and rejoin the tournament? Same for match play, can a player say he is withdrawing or conceding holes, but then decide to rejoin a match and play in the rest of the holes?
August 5th, 2010 at 6:46 pm
Ed writes:
I know that if I take relief from an obstruction such as a cart path, I have to take complete relief. What about from a lateral water hazard? I drop the ball correctly within two club lengths, but the ball ends up fairly close to the margin of the hazard and to play the ball, my stance will be in the hazard. Is that ok? I can’t find anything in Rule 20-2c that says I must redrop.
August 6th, 2010 at 9:18 am
Ryan Gregg writes:
Scott,
The Committee needs to determine how they want to handle withdrawals. To avoid charges of favoritism, it is best to have a written policy published in advance of a competition that says how withdrawals will be handled. Unlike concessions in match play, the Rules are silent on whether a withdrawal may be withdrawn.
August 6th, 2010 at 9:42 am
Ryan Gregg writes:
Ed,
That is correct. The player does not need to take complete relief from the lateral water hazard. As long as the ball when dropped, comes to rest outside the hazard, it is a good drop. The fact the player would have to stand in the hazard, is irrelevant.
August 6th, 2010 at 9:44 am
Gordon Starr writes:
Match play. I hit 150 yards onto the green. My opponent, standing near the green, walks up to my ball, marks it and lifts it, tossing it back my way. I did not ask him to mark and lift my ball. Any penalty here?
August 6th, 2010 at 12:50 pm
Dan Davey writes:
Rule 20-2 Dropping of the Golf Ball. The rule states that the ball should be dropped from shoulder height at arms length. Question is does the golfer have the arm to the side of his body or face the hole when dropping as long as neither position is closer to the hole? Thank you for your response.
Dan Davey
August 7th, 2010 at 8:03 am
Bob Gorman writes:
Decision 8-1/2 says that distance is not considered advice and can be shared EXCEPT when distance is obtained from an electronic measuring device. Penalty is disqualification. I use a skycaddie and am often asked for distances. Is it in violation of rule 8-1 to share distances if they are derived from a GPS or laser device?
August 7th, 2010 at 9:58 am
Dan Cross writes:
During a recent club 4-ball match I was presented with a curious question regarding caddies rules. We were on the 15th hole of our match when a friend of one of the opposing players started to follow our match by the 17th hole he was advising this player on her putts actively lining her putts with her. When I questioned this I was informed that he was her Caddie and as such he was allowed to advise her even though he was not present at the beginning of the match, never declared as her caddie at the start of the match and there were no other caddies present for the other players.
What are the ruling’s on this?
Thanks
DC
August 7th, 2010 at 11:11 am
Dan Cross writes:
Question I’ve moved a mark at the request of another player is there a penalty for while moving the mark back replacing the ball instead of the mark in match play?
Thanks
DC
August 7th, 2010 at 11:46 am
Ryan Gregg writes:
Gordon,
Your opponent would be penalized one stroke under Rule 18-3b.
August 7th, 2010 at 6:12 pm
Ryan Gregg writes:
Dan,
A player may stand in any direction and his arm to his side, front or otherwise. By omission it is permitted.
August 7th, 2010 at 6:16 pm
Ryan Gregg writes:
Bob,
Electronic Distance Measuring Devices are permitted in competition by Local Rule only. The use of electronic distance measuring devices without the local rule in effect results in disqualification. If the local rule is in effect than you may share the information from your device with your fellow competitors or opponents. They may even share the device. Without the local rule in effect, than you would be disqualified along with the fellow competitors and opponents that you were sharing the information with. See the Note to Rule 14-3.
August 7th, 2010 at 6:22 pm
Ryan Gregg writes:
Dan,
A caddie may be hired or fired at any time during a round. A player does not have to make any declaration to his opponent or fellow competitor. The Rules do not allow a player to abuse this right. See Decision 8-1/26. Also, the Committee has the right to make it a condition of the competition that caddies are not permitted, See the Note to Rule 6-4. Be sure to read the conditions of competition prior to competing an any event.
August 7th, 2010 at 6:31 pm
Ryan Gregg writes:
Dan,
The Note to Rule 20-1 is a recommended procedure for a player to follow when moving a ball or ball marker out of the way for another player. A player should ensure that they follow the same procedure when moving a ball or ball marker to the side. For example: ball marker, club head, ball marker. If a player goes ball marker, club head, ball. The same procedure has not been followed and the opponent may make a claim that the player has played from a wrong place and the penalty is loss of hole (Rule 20-7).
August 7th, 2010 at 6:47 pm
Darryl Barnes writes:
Ryan,
Thanks for answer my question above regarding the order of play during a match. Here’s a related questions….
It’s a common practice at match play events for groups to agree to ignore 10-1a regarding Honors and have one team tee off first on the front nine first and the other team tee off first on the back nine. If discovered at the conclusion of the match should all of the players be disqualified?
August 9th, 2010 at 7:50 am
Ryan Gregg writes:
Darryl,
When players knowingly waive Rule 10-1a they are subject to disqualification under Rule 1-3. If the players do not realize they are in violation until after the results have been officially announced then the match stands as played. See Decision 1-3/1.
August 9th, 2010 at 8:23 am
Shelia writes:
Hi, A player has hit her approach shot to the right of the green. Her ball is about 3 feet off the green and can be putted. However, she has a sprinkler head on her line of putt. Is she allowed to take relief from the sprinkler head?
August 11th, 2010 at 3:57 pm
Caleb Hoshiyama writes:
Does a water hazard have to marked (either red or yellow stakes/lines) to be treated as a water hazard under the USGA rules for a water hazard?
Meaning, a body of water (without stakes) on the course would be treated the same as if it were marked and the natural boundaries would determine if the ball were in or out of the hazard?
August 12th, 2010 at 10:29 am
Ryan Gregg writes:
Sheila,
A player is not entitled to releif for an immovable obstruction on the line of play (See Rule 24-2). However, a Committee may choose to adopt a Local Rule granting releif for obstructions close to putting greens that would give a player releif on line of play (See Appendix I, Page 110 of the 2010-2011 USGA Rules of Golf).
August 12th, 2010 at 11:30 am
Ryan Gregg writes:
Caleb,
Decision 26/3 states that a water hazard is so by definition, whether or not so marked. When determining if the ball is in the water hazard the player should use the natural break of the land to determine the margin (See Decision 33-2a/4).
August 12th, 2010 at 11:41 am
Eric Young writes:
The first three holes were closed due to course maintenance. Three other holes were played twice to make up the difference. Am I required to still post my score due to this temporary configuration?
August 13th, 2010 at 6:11 am
Jim Cowan writes:
Eric – thank you for your comment. In a perfect world, if this set-up was in place for an extended period of time and we were notified by the course, we would issue Temporary Ratings for golfers to post to taking into account the playing of the three holes twice. Lacking this, you are still required to post a score since you played 13 holes or more. You would ignore your hole scores the second time around on the three holes that you played twice. This would leave you with 15 hole scores and three blanks for the three holes out of play. You fill in the three blanks by awarding yourself a “par, plus any handicap strokes” you were entitled to on the unplayed holes. So if you are a 10 and the 4th, 12th and 8th ranked handicap holes were out of play, you would award yourself a bogey, par, bogey and then post to the normal rating. Thanks again – Jim Cowan
August 13th, 2010 at 11:25 am
alice writes:
A player putts her ball in hole while ball still in motion. what is the penalty and does she need to correct the infraction?
August 13th, 2010 at 3:55 pm
Bill Rider writes:
Jon….player’s ball lies on a side hill, so the player hovers the club above the ball so as not to address the ball. The player makes a stroke at the ball which moved during the player’s back swing. The player missed hitting the ball. The player then moved to where the ball stopped and played from there…
Was the player in violation of Rule 18 ???
August 13th, 2010 at 4:23 pm
Ryan Gregg writes:
Alice,
The player is in violation of playing a moving ball. Rule 14-5. The player incurs a loss of hole penalty in match play or a two stroke penalty in stroke play and the ball is played as it lies.
August 13th, 2010 at 6:38 pm
Ryan Gregg writes:
Bill,
No. There was not a violation of Rule 18-2b since the player had not adressed the ball. However, the stroke counts and the player would play the ball where it came to rest.
August 13th, 2010 at 6:42 pm
lowell cooke writes:
1) PLAYERS BALL IS IN WATER HAZARD .IMMOVABLE OBSTRUCTION OUTSIDE OF HAZARD INTERFERES WITH PLAYERS STANCE OR SWING. IS HE GRANTED FREE RELIEF FROM OBSTRUCTION ? THANKS
August 14th, 2010 at 9:19 pm
Mike Burgess writes:
In Match Play, the opposing Captain does not give you a line-up. However as Captain you have sent your line-up to him well in advance. Any penalty? Or just a slap on the hand and nothing can be done?
August 15th, 2010 at 5:47 am
Ed writes:
I saw a version of the following happen: A player whose ball was in a fairway bunker stood behind his ball to get a feel for his line of play. While doing so he rested his club on the sand. He then took a practice swing in the bunker, again touching the sand. Finally, on his back swing he again touched the sand. How many penalty strokes? I think 6, or are any of them packaged together under 1-4/12?
August 15th, 2010 at 9:27 am
Ryan Gregg writes:
Lowell,
No. The player would not be entitled to relief.
Rule 24-2b, Immovable obstructions states “except when the ball lies in a water hazard or lateral water hazard”. Relief is all predicated on where the ball lies not the immovable obstruction.
August 15th, 2010 at 12:00 pm
Ryan Gregg writes:
Mike,
There is no penalty associated with a team captain not submitting his roster in a timely manner. Rule 5c of the Team Match Rules of Play state that the player list shall be exchange at least 24 hours in advance. Communication between the Team Captains is essential to avoid complications.
August 15th, 2010 at 12:11 pm
Ryan Gregg writes:
Ed,
The is a two stroke penalty. See principle 3 of Decision 14-12. Multiple Occurrences of the Same or Similar Acts Result in One Rule Being Breached More Than Once — Single Penalty Applied
Example 1: In stroke play, a competitor takes several practice swings in a hazard, touching the ground each time. The ruling would be a single two-stroke penalty (Also See Decision 13-4/3).
August 15th, 2010 at 12:14 pm
Pat Elliott writes:
About Dustin Johnson in the bunker at 18 Sunday at the PGA. A streak of sunlight was shining through the crowd on his ball and he asked the crowd to block it so his ball would be in the shade. Did they assist the player illegally? Thanks, pat
August 15th, 2010 at 9:05 pm
hytan writes:
Hi, i have a question: on a par three hole , i drove the ball over a water hazard. The ball landed on the right hand slope of the green and rolled down into the water. Where should i take a drop?
Thank you.
August 15th, 2010 at 9:48 pm
Scott writes:
My ball is in high rough and positioned in a strange lie. WIth my sand wedge, I take a backswing and strike at the ball. I feel the impact with the ball (fairly strike it), and maintain forward momentum with my follow through. as I do so the ball ends up on the club face somehow. It did not ‘double hit’, I am 100% sure of that. Nor did I notice it was on the club face and alter my swing. I finish my follow through as I would normally. When I do the ball comes off the club face. I did not ‘throw it’ with the club or anything, but it probably looked like i did. I took my normal swing and normal follow through. Is this a penalty? This happened to me yesterday and again, I believe I fairly struck it, did not spoon or anything, did not guide it once it was left on the club, i just continued with the swing and I know the ball did not hit the club more than once.
August 16th, 2010 at 9:48 am
Ryan Gregg writes:
Pat,
Decision 14-2/2.5 explains that a player may not place an object or a person for the purpose of blocking sunlight from his ball. However, in Dustin’s case I believe he wanted them to stand still and not have the sunlight move. He did not care if it was sunny or shady, he just wanted it still. The rules officials also looked at that situation and felt what he had done had not violated the Rules.
August 16th, 2010 at 9:52 am
Ryan Gregg writes:
Hytan,
For your answer I will refer to Rule 26 (Water Hazards) of the Rules of Golf. If you have knowledge or virtual certainty that the ball is lost in the water hazard, than you have four options. #1 Play a ball as nearly as possible to the spot from which the original ball was last played. #2 Drop a ball behind the water hazard, keeping the point at which the original ball last crossed the margin of the water hazard directly between the hole and the spot on which the ball is dropped, with no limit to how far behind the water hazard the ball may be dropped; or #3 As additional options available only if the ball last crossed the margin of a lateral water hazard (red stake or line), drop a ball outside the water hazard within two club-lengths of and not nearer the hole than the point where the original ball last crossed the margin of the water hazard; or #4 a point on the opposite margin of the water hazard equidistant from the hole. In all four options you will be dropping the ball and receiving a one-stroke penalty. Thank you for your question.
August 16th, 2010 at 9:55 am
Ryan Gregg writes:
Scott,
The last paragraph in Decision 14-1/4 states that if a ball is fairly struck at, there is only momentary contact between the club-head and the ball or whatever intervenes between the club-head and the ball. By your description, I believe that you have violated Rule 14-1 and would incur a two-stroke penalty in stroke play or a loss of hole penalty in match play. However, if you feel that there was a substance (grass, mud, wet soil) causing the ball to adhere to the face of the club, then Decision 1-4/2 applies. NOTE: I have seen simalar situations in slow motion and the player has violated 14-4 (double hit), but didn’t realize it.
August 16th, 2010 at 10:11 am
Greg writes:
This par 3 at my club has a big boulder in the design of the hole. My question is, if the ball comes to rest on the boulder do get a free drop ? I say, play it off the rock or it’s an unplayable lie and take the penalty.
August 16th, 2010 at 11:34 am
Ryan Gregg writes:
Greg,
A big boulder is just that. It is not an obstruction. The player is not entitled to free relief. You are correct, the player may proceed under Rule 28; ball unplayable.
August 16th, 2010 at 1:49 pm
Steve Micheli writes:
Is there a penalty for having someone attend the flag on the green when the shadow of the flag is on the exact line of the intended putt? I would assume no, but if you asked the person tending the flag to not touch or remove it until the putt was on the way, then maybe a penalty??. This has come up a time or two, especially in early or late day play when shadows are long.
Thank you for your thoughts!
August 16th, 2010 at 7:06 pm
George Hinds writes:
At the PGA Championship on hole #18 in the last round, Dustin Johnson was preparing to hit his 2nd shot from a bunker. Let’s skip the grounding a club issue. He asked a spectator to move and block the light (element) that was shining on his ball. This was clearly heard on the television broadcast. Was this a violation of rule 14.2(a) and a two stroke penalty? Decision 14-2/2.5 allows a player to ask a spectator not to move, or move, so his shadow is not over the ball. However, the sunlight cannot be blocked from the ball.
August 16th, 2010 at 8:07 pm
Ryan Gregg writes:
Steve,
There is no penalty for having a shadow cast on the putting green by the flagstick situated in the hole. Decision 8-2b/1 states that a player may have a line of putt indicated on the putting green by a shadow, however the shadow must be moved prior to the stroke being made. As long as the flagstick is in the hole and the person attending is not moving the flagstick shadow to indicate the line of putt and leave it threre during the stroke, there is no penalty.
George,
I checked with an official who was at the PGA regarding this question. The decision was that since he was asking for the area to either be all shade or all light that it was different from the decision where the player just wants his ball in the shade. Therefore there was no violation.
August 17th, 2010 at 7:13 am
Eric Imai writes:
Can you remove a red stake(marking a lateral hazard) if it impedes your golf swing?
The ball lies in the hazard, directly behing a red stake (about 2 inches) May you remove the stake prior to hitting the golf ball?
August 17th, 2010 at 11:47 am
Ryan Gregg writes:
Eric,
A stake used to identify a water hazard or lateral water hazard may be moved or removed without penalty, if the stake is movable. They are, by definition, movable obstructions. NOTE: The Committee may, by local rule, deem a movable obstruction to be an immovable obstruction.
August 17th, 2010 at 1:42 pm
Curt Fuller writes:
Does the local rules at a course overide USGA rules?
August 18th, 2010 at 12:20 pm
Steve Micheli writes:
Ryan, A further question is is the player can ask the flag attendant to not pull the flag until after a stroke is made. that is truly the issue we are trying to resolve. Thanks
August 18th, 2010 at 1:32 pm
Linda DeLong writes:
Regarding relief from a french drain – does it have to be in the local rules? If it’s not, is there anything in the rules/decisions that addresses this? I’ve looked and can’t find anything. One club I play with says you have to find gravel under the grass in order to get relief.
August 18th, 2010 at 8:30 pm
Ryan Gregg writes:
Curt,
Rule 33 states that a Committee has no power to waive a Rule of Golf. Clubs may establish local rules as long as they are consistent with the policies set forth in the appendix of the Rules of Golf.
August 19th, 2010 at 1:09 pm
Ryan Gregg writes:
Steve,
Good question. Yes. The player may ask to have the flagstick removed after the stroke was made. As long as he doesn’t ask to have the person attending the flagstick to hold it in some other manner to point out a line for putting with the shadow, there would be no penalty.
August 19th, 2010 at 1:18 pm
Ryan Gregg writes:
Linda,
A French Drain is not required to have exposed stone. However, if a French Drain does not have exposed stone, then the Committee in charge of the competition or golf course must specify that it is ground under repair. Decision 13-2/27 allows a player to probe to see if there are rocks below or around the ball. If there is a chance that the club could contact the rocks in the French drain, relief would be justified. We usually will probe with a tee around the ball to see if we can feel rocks. If so, we would grant a player relief. We wouldn’t want a player’s club to hit the rocks when they take a divot.
August 19th, 2010 at 1:48 pm
david writes:
A player was having a bad day and didn’t hit a green in regulation until the 18th hole. The putt was so long he didn’t bother to ask anyone to tend the flag; however, the ball was on line for the hole so he yelled for someone to tend the flag. A friendly fellow competitor obliged and pulled the flag to prevent the possibility of the ball hitting the flagstick. Rule 17-1 tells us the flagstick can’t be tended after the stroke has been made. So who gets the penalty? the nice guy who came to help or the lazy player who was too mentally fatigued to ask for help in the first place?
August 20th, 2010 at 3:44 pm
Ryan Gregg writes:
David,
Unfortunately, the player that rushed over and removed that flagstick would be in breach of Rule 1-2 (exerting influence on the ball) and incur a two-stroke penalty in stroke play or loss of hole in match play. It is the players responsibility to know the rules.
August 20th, 2010 at 4:17 pm
Tim Jacobsen writes:
The 18th Hole at Micke Grove Golf Links is a Par 4 with a water hazard near the green. The area in between the water hazard and the green is guarded by a large tree and deep grass. Out of Bounds is also near by in the form of a fence that separates the golf course from the zoo. During the Club Championship the following happened during the final round on Sunday:
On the 18th Hole Player A plays his second shot towards the green of a par 4. His shot hits a tree near a water hazard but no one in the group of 4 players can see where the ball went after hitting the tree. Player A then uses Rule 26-1 and takes relief from the water hazard as a provisional ball (Ball 2) and plays his next shot onto the green. All 4 players look for Player A’s original shot near the water hazard by the green but could not find the ball. Since the group was close to the Clubhouse the group requested for a Member of the Committee to come out and make a decision on how to play because Player B was in dispute thinking the ball should be a lost ball.
The committee member comes to the 18th green with the rule book and reads The Decisions of Golf Rule 26-1/1 about the meaning of “Known or Virtually Certain” Decision. It was then determined by the group to play another ball (Ball 3) from the original shot location proceeding under the Lost Ball Rule 27-1 stroke and distance as a second ball and let the Committee decide as to the rule. Player A plays Ball 3 onto the fringe and then chips in for a score of 5. Player A then plays Ball 2 on the green and 2 putts for a 6.
The committee struggled with the ruling, as two rules seem to apply. Rule 3-3 “Doubt as to Procedure” and Rule 26 1/3 seems to apply as well.
A few questions:
Player A incorrectly dropped his ball using Rule 26-1 (Ball 2 from above), (Player A was not entitled to play a provisional ball for a ball he believed to be in the hazard) is this ball abandoned because it was an improper drop? And is there any penalty from that improper drop? Since no player or spectator could see Ball 2 actually go into the hazard and it was not certain that the ball went into the hazard. Reading The Decisions of Golf Rule 26 – 1/3 seems to apply even though the ball was not found outside the hazard.
Player A did not announce in advance which ball he intended to count as his score but was waiting for a ruling to determine which score to count. Is there a penalty for not announcing which ball the player intended to use before playing a stroke?
Should the committee have counted the 3rd Ball as the ball in play since the second ball was not dropped properly and give the player a 5?
The committee’s decision was to count the second ball as the ball in play and gave the player a 6 on the hole. However should there been a penalty as described in the Definitions of Golf Rule 26 1/3?
August 22nd, 2010 at 6:56 pm
Ryan Gregg writes:
Tim,
When the player dropped and played the ball under Rule 26-1 he was proceeding under inapplicable rule played from a wrong place (See Decision 34-3/6). Since the player had gained a significant distance advantage when he played the stroke he was required to correct the error under Rule 20-7. The ball he dropped and played under Rule 27-1 is the ball in play. His score for the hole would be 7. 4 strokes and 3 penalty strokes (one under 27-1 and two under 20-7). Rule 3-3 is not an applicable rule because the player must invoke Rule 3-3 prior to proceeding with any ball. Rule 20-7 is the applicable rule.
August 23rd, 2010 at 8:15 am
Tim Jacobsen writes:
Ryan,
The committee made the wrong decision (I was part of the committee, not a player involved). This decision resulted in player A winning the Club Championship over Player B. Since the committee was incorrect in the ruling, can the result of the tournament be changed? I read in Match Play that the decsion could be changed but I am not sure about Stroke Play?
August 23rd, 2010 at 10:13 am
Dan Gullickson writes:
In a stroke play event Player A tees off and hits it into the spectators or galary. When Player A and his competitors arive at the ball they find out that the ball was picked up by an outside agency (spectator) and then placed back down after they realized it was a ball in play. The outside agency (spectator) did say he placed it right where he picked it up.
What is the correct ruling on this situation?
1) Player A mus play they ball as it lies?
2) Player A must take a drop close to the orginal ball location?
August 23rd, 2010 at 10:25 am
Ryan Gregg writes:
Tim,
The decision cannot be changed. See Decision 34-3/1. A Committee may not correct an incorrect ruling after the competition has closed unless the circumstances in 34-1b apply.
August 23rd, 2010 at 11:07 am
Ryan Gregg writes:
Dan,
The player would be required to play the ball as it lies, unless there is evidence that the ball was not put back in its original location. See Decision 18-1/3 and 18-1/4.
August 23rd, 2010 at 11:15 am
Dan writes:
Ryan,
Thanks for the quick response. So we are suppossed to go with what the outside agency says is the original spot? Just wondering since the players, rules official could not be sure of the exact spot. The only person who saw the original spot wash the outside agency “spectator”.
August 23rd, 2010 at 11:26 am
Tim Jacobsen writes:
The above resulted in Player A and Player B being tied for the Club Championship. The playoff was a 3 hole playoff beginning at Hole 10 and continuing through Hole 12. On the first playoff hole (Hole 10), Player A drives his ball into a fairway bunker. Player A and his friend (The friend was a competitor during the tournament but wanted to see the playoff) approach the bunker. Player A’s friend walks in the bunker to the other side to fetch a rake for the bunker for Player A. As player A’s friend is walking back through the bunker he rake the bunker of his foot tracks. The committee member immediately stops the friend but the he raked at least 3 shoe imprints before stopping. Player A stated that the friend was not his caddy. The committee checked the definition of the caddy in the definitions of golf and determined that the person was not a caddie and no penalty strokes were given to player A as a result of the bunker raking. Player A goes on to win by one stroke.
What was the proper ruling? Was the friend acting as a caddie or a spectator?
August 23rd, 2010 at 12:08 pm
Ryan Gregg writes:
Tim,
The individual that raked the bunker would not meet the definition of caddie. The raking was a casual act similar to the act described in Decision 6-4/4.5. No penalty to the player.
August 23rd, 2010 at 1:19 pm
Tim Jacobsen writes:
Thanks for all the clarification Ryan.
August 23rd, 2010 at 4:24 pm
Dan writes:
Ryan,
Thanks for the quick response. So we are suppossed to go with what the outside agency says is the original spot? Just wondering since the players, rules official could not be sure of the exact spot. The only person who saw the original spot wash the outside agency “spectator”.
August 24th, 2010 at 6:10 am
Ryan Gregg writes:
Dan,
Yes. You would have to go with the spectator’s testimony.
August 24th, 2010 at 10:10 am
M. Step writes:
In the LPGA @ Pumpkin Ridge on the last hole C. Kerr hit her second shot into the 18th green, which is fronted by a water hazard, and had a slope from the green’s edge to the wter hazard. Slope also had a yellow line indicating the hazard, approx3-5 feet from the water’s edge and5-6 feet from the green.(as best as I can recall.The ball crossed the hazard line and hit the slope and then rolled back crossing the hazard line and into the water. Could Kerr have marked the point where the ball crossed the hazard mark into the water and from that mark and take her penalty relief and no closer to the hole dropped her ball on the slope(this would put her closer to the green, without crossing the water hazard) as the ball had cleared the hazard before going back into the water. Would Kerr have had the option to keep the point where the ball had crossed the hazard line and the flag and made a drop between the hazard line and the water as there was approx 3-5 feet of land to stand on, and not had to go back over to the other side of the water.(this would apply to the requirement that she could go back as far as she wanted to. I believe you have an option to drop a ball in a hazard.
Thank you
August 24th, 2010 at 12:15 pm
Ryan Gregg writes:
M. Step,
Rule 26-1 states that when a ball comes to rest in a water hazard (yellow lines and/or stakes) the player has three options.
1. Play the ball as it lies.
and under penalty of one stroke:
2. Play a ball as nearly as possible to the spot from which the original ball was last played.
3.Drop a ball behind the water hazard, keeping the point at which the original ball last crossed the margin of the water hazard directly between the hole and the spot on which the ball is dropped, with no limit to how far behind the water hazard the ball may be dropped.
August 24th, 2010 at 1:16 pm
Shelia writes:
Hi, In match play, my opponent holed out the ball indicating that she had scored a par with a net birdie (she received a stroke on this hole) and that she won the hole (I was putting for a par and had no strokes on this hole). I was told to pick up my marker since she had won the hole. As we were walking off the green, I replayed the hole in my mind and remembered that she had not reached the green in two but was in the bunker…giving her a gross score of 5 and a net score of 4. If I had made my putt, we would have halved the hole instead of her winning it. My take is that she gave erroneous information causing me to pick up my putt and therefore she should lose the hole. What is the official ruling?
August 24th, 2010 at 2:08 pm
Ryan Gregg writes:
Sheila,
Decision 9-2/6 Player Reporting Wrong Score Causes Opponent with Chance for Half to Pick Up Ball
Q. In match play, A holed out and stated to B, his opponent, that he had scored a 4. B, having played four strokes, picked up assuming he had lost the hole. A then realized that he had scored a 5. He immediately told B. What is the ruling?
A. A gave wrong information as to the number of strokes taken and, under the principle of Rule 9-2, A would normally lose the hole. However, since A had holed out for no worse than a half, the hole was halved — see Rule 2-2.
August 24th, 2010 at 2:17 pm
Dave Austin writes:
A friend says he read that if player A hits his tee shot near the hole on a par 3 and player B’s tee shot hits player A’s ball and knocks it into the hole player A’s ball is considered holed and he scores an ace. Everything I read in the rule book says player A’s ball must be replaced and there is no penalty for either player.
What is the correct ruling
August 25th, 2010 at 10:42 am
Ryan Gregg writes:
Dave,
Just so you know, I get 40% of all winning bets! Ha, ha. Rule 18-5 states that if a ball in play and at rest is moved by another ball in motion after a stroke, the moved ball must be replaced. You were right.
August 25th, 2010 at 11:06 am
Dennis Lodes writes:
My question is when taking relief from ground under repair and the nearest full relief is on the putting surface, can you drop on the green. If not allowed to drop on the green where is your relief? Thank you, Dennis
August 26th, 2010 at 5:22 am
Dennis Lodes writes:
My question is when there is a lateral water hazard within 2 club lengths of a green and your point of entry plus 2 club lengths puts you on the green can you drop on the green? Thank you.
August 26th, 2010 at 5:25 am
Ryan Gregg writes:
Dennis,
See Rule 25-1. When your ball lies through the green, your nearest point of relief may not be on a putting green.
August 26th, 2010 at 8:23 am
Ryan Gregg writes:
Dennis,
Yes, when dropping from a lateral water hazard that is within two club-lengths of the putting green a player may drop on the putting green. See Rule 26-1.
August 26th, 2010 at 8:25 am
Dennis writes:
Let me state my question again, ques is if you are in GUR and take a correct drop and it rolls less than 2 club lengths and no closer to hole ( on the green) is the ball in play or must you redrop?
August 26th, 2010 at 8:46 pm
Ryan Gregg writes:
Dennis,
When a ball rolls and comes to rest on a putting green it is one of the seven times in Rule 20-2c that the ball must be re-dropped.
August 27th, 2010 at 8:06 am
Tim Craggs writes:
A ball comes to rest on a bridge crossing a water hazard. What are the players options?
August 27th, 2010 at 12:15 pm
Ryan Gregg writes:
Tim,
The player is not entitled to free relief for the bridge. The player may play the ball as it lies and he may touch the bridge with his club without penalty or he may proceed with his options under Rule 26-1.
August 27th, 2010 at 1:10 pm
gary writes:
My question is; I was on the fringe with a 8′ left to right putt with 2′ of break in it. my competitor’s ball came to rest in my putting line and as he marked his ball he walk in my line and imprinted the grween with footprints in my line, I made a comment to this and his reply was that i didn’t have a line as I was not on the green. I stated that he couldn’t delibritly alter the putting surface. Who’s right? and is there a rule to address this situation?
Thanks
August 31st, 2010 at 5:33 am
Ryan Gregg writes:
Gary,
Decision 16-1a/13 States that you may have the line of play restored to it’s original condition. There are several instances in the Rules of Golf that allow a player to have his line of play restored. Also see Decision 13-2/8. The player is always entitled to the lie and line of play he had when his ball came to rest and if it has been damaged by another person it may be repaired.
August 31st, 2010 at 8:27 am
Mike W. writes:
I saw a LPGA player was DQed for using a weight that she attached to her club and warmed up with it while she was waiting to tee off as play was backing up. I understand the rule on why she was DQed, but a member of my foursome has been complaining that I have been swinging my driver with a cover on it before I tee off? It does have a little weight, and resistance to it, but it was not designed to “help you stretch”. This incident has just added fuel to his fire. What is the rule and am I breaking one?
September 1st, 2010 at 3:22 pm
Ryan Gregg writes:
Mike,
Decision 14-3/10 refers to a weighted head cover. If it is a standard head cover there is no problem. If it is a head cover that was designed to act as a training or swing aid, the player would be disqualified.
September 2nd, 2010 at 8:39 am
John Hadley writes:
I hit my ball where it landed behind and next to a pile if branches and leaves that have been on the course for months. Now the pile blocks my line of flight to the green plus I have to stand on the pile to hit my ball. Do I get any relief?
September 3rd, 2010 at 3:54 am
Ryan Gregg writes:
John,
From your description, the branches would not be considered “material piled for removal” as described in the definition of ground under repair. You would not be entitled to relief, but you may move them. The branches would be considered loose impediments and you would be entitled to move them away from your line of play and stance. However, if your ball moves during the process you would receive a one stroke under Rule 18-2a.
September 3rd, 2010 at 6:52 am
Jeff writes:
Rule 7-1 states: When two or more rounds of a stroke-play competition are to be played over consecutive days, a competitor must not practice between those rounds on any competition course remaining to be played, or test the surface of any putting green on such course by rolling a ball or roughening or scraping the surface. What if the competition take place over consecutive Saturdays, would someone be able to play a round during the week?
September 7th, 2010 at 11:05 am
Ryan Gregg writes:
Jeff,
Consecutive days refers to days that are back to back like Saturday, Sunday. A player may practice on the course, during the week, prior to an event that is being held on consecutive weekends.
September 7th, 2010 at 4:37 pm
Andi Bristow writes:
I currently golf on a Junior College league in Fresno, Ca. At our tournament today a coach asked if we could use smart phones to give us a distance between tee and green.The smart phones now have an apt so we can download the course information similar to a sky caddie. The head coach did not have an answer so they said “no”. My question is can we use the smart phone on the course or not? Do the pros use the smart phone during their tournaments?
September 7th, 2010 at 8:09 pm
Joe Compton writes:
While playing a friendly match at Roddy Ranch, which we had not played in some time, we came to a par 4 hole which is a slight dogleg right with a marked hazard to the left (old gravel pit?). One golfer hit his ball in the hazard on the left, another hit a ball on a hillside to the right of the fairway.
As we went to look for the ball on the hill we came across a sign saying “evironmental area – keep out”. This was about 50 yards before the ball on the hill – which was above another sign “beware of rattlesnakes”. The player played his shot off the hill to the green. About 50 yards further, there was another sign “environmental area – keep out”. These signs were not there the last time we played Roddy. Further, there were no green topped red stakes or white stakes delineating where this enviromnental area started and ended, or how to play a ball in such an area.
The hazard on the left was properly marked with red stakes and green tops – same environmental hazard signed present.
Without any clear information about whether this should be played as a hazard, out of bounds, where it began, ended, etc. we played it as “course improperly marked” and ignored them.
This wasn’t a tournament, but how should we have proceded?
September 9th, 2010 at 2:31 pm
Ryan Gregg writes:
Andi,
The USGA and R&A has issued a joint statement regarding the use of electronic devices. Decision 14-3/0.5 states that any device used for distance measuring may not contain any other functions that are prohibited (e.g., gradient, wind speed, temperature). The joint statement states that multi-functional devices such as mobile phones may not be used as a distance measuring device if the device contains any prohibited features.
Many phones have built-in applications that are difficult, if not impossible to delete. For example, the iPhone 3GS ships with a compass application pre-installed. A compass is one of the devices that may not be used on a golf course (Decision 14-3/4). It is not possible to remove the compass application from the iPhone 3GS. Therefore, it is prohibited to use it as an Electronic Distance Measuring Device under the Rules of Golf. The penalty for using a prohibited device is disqualification.
The iPhone 3G does not have the compass application or any other prohibited applications pre-installed. As long as the user has not installed a prohibited application, the iPhone 3G may be used as an Electronic Distance Measuring Device.
Before using any electronic distance measuring device during a competition, the player should ensure that it conforms to the Rules. Any doubt of conformity will be resolved against the player. The local rule for use of electronic distance measuring devices has not been adopted on the PGA Tour.
September 10th, 2010 at 8:41 am
Ryan Gregg writes:
Joe,
It sounds like the areas were intended to be marked as environmentally sensitive areas from which play is prohibited. The ball on the right did not seem to be in a hazard and I cannot tell you what the intention of the course was without any stakes or lines or local rules. The ball on the left sounds like it was in a lateral water hazard defined by stakes with green tops. The player should have proceeded with one of his options under Rule 26-1.
September 10th, 2010 at 8:50 am
cy writes:
Ryan,
I hit a tree. The ball was lost left across a cart path which had a red line painted along its left side. Is the nearest point of relief the cart path and then one club length right of the cart path? If my feet are still on the path do I have to redrop since this is a drop with a penalty?
September 11th, 2010 at 5:38 pm
Ryan Gregg writes:
Cy,
Taking relief from the lateral water hazard is your first step Rule 26-1 (i.e., two club-lengths from where it last crossed the margin of the hazard). This may mean that you may be dropping on the cart path. If after dropping, you may then elect to take relief from the cart path under Rule 24-2. If after dropping from the hazard, the ball does not roll into a situation in which it required to be re-dropped under Rule 20-2c you may play the ball if you have interference from the path.
September 12th, 2010 at 6:34 am
Paul Ward writes:
Help. We have an argument and one guy is on probation because of it.
If I am in a sand trap and I ground my club in an adjacent trap (not the trap I am in) is there a penalty for grounding the club? Also what rule covers this question.
Thanks a bunch.
September 13th, 2010 at 8:31 am
Ryan Gregg writes:
Paul,
Rule 13-4a says that a player may NOT test the condition of the hazard or any similar hazard. It is a two stroke penalty.
September 13th, 2010 at 10:55 am
Michael Kristie writes:
The Powers That Be,
Is it legal to listen to music while playing? I qualified for my men’s club championship. While qualifying, on first day of aggregate score two players in our foursome had continual chitchats on the green and the tee boxes. At the 15th hole I had to back away from a bunker shot at least 3 time because of there lack of respect and etiquette. On the next hole I put in the ear buds of my phone to block out their continued noise. This week I would like to add music of my ear buds are in. Is this legal, no penalty?
September 14th, 2010 at 9:36 am
Ryan Gregg writes:
Michael,
Yes, it is legal to listen to music while playing. See Decision 14-3/16.
September 14th, 2010 at 4:39 pm
Dave writes:
Question: new to the game, a player picked up a ball (shot) he didn’t like and re teed under provisional. what is penalty in this situation? previous player put tee shot OB assumed lost, introduced 2nd ball under provisional (new player assumed he could do similar with provisional, BUT on original ball)
September 16th, 2010 at 6:18 am
Ryan Gregg writes:
Dave,
The player is not playing a provisional ball he is proceeding under stroke and distance (Rule 20-5). He would be lying three with the second ball from the tee. See definition of provisional ball and Rule 27-2.
September 16th, 2010 at 12:58 pm
Paul Beardwell writes:
We played a stableford competition starting our round on the 10th hole. Thus the 9th hole was our last. The winner had to be decided on countback. Is the countback score taken on the last holes we played i.e 7th – 9th; (our 16th – 18th) the way we played it or is it calculated using holes 16 to 18 (our 7th – 9th)Thank you
September 19th, 2010 at 3:14 am
Ryan Gregg writes:
Paul,
It is up to the Committee to decide how to break ties. I am not familiar with the countback system. In the Appendix of the Rules of Golf they refer to the last 9-Holes as 10-18. If the entire field started on Hole 10, the Committee may choose to use Holes 1-9.
September 20th, 2010 at 7:16 am
Peter Huhtala writes:
Please explain the drop options for a ball in a lateral hazard on the right side of a green but stance, swing, and line of play is obstructed by a temporary immovable obstruction. (construction fence) Rule 28? or local ruling necessary? Is there a difference for a permanent immovable obstruction?
Thanks
September 22nd, 2010 at 8:19 am
Ryan Gregg writes:
Peter,
If the Committee has defined the fence as a temporary movable obstruction, then the player would follow the guidelines set forth in Appendix I in the Rules of Golf. If the fence is an immovable obstruction then Rule 24-2 would be the applicable Rule. It is up to the Committee to define the fence. Either way, it is a two step process. The player must first take relief from the hazard and then take relief from the obstruction.
September 22nd, 2010 at 11:08 am
jacob writes:
I know if you strike a ball more than once with a swing there is a penalty, but what if : a players ball is is in a bunker with very fluffy sand. When he takes his swing it evident by the amount of sand thrown that the club could not have touched the ball, but his club clearly comes in contact with the ball once it is airborne. ( there is no sound and the player has no sensation of hitting the ball untill the ball is in the air well off the bunkers surface ). Is there a penalty???? Just thought I’d ask, Thank you for your time, Jacob
September 24th, 2010 at 7:32 am
Ryan Gregg writes:
Jacob,
When the player strikes the moving ball, in this instance, it is a one stroke penalty added to his score. See decision 14-4/3.
September 24th, 2010 at 8:49 am
Kip kendall writes:
In our (small member club) match play championship it was decided by staff that the ladder would be filled out by playing par instead of having byes to allow maximum participation. During the middle rounds 2 members who were each playing against par decided to join their matches and then during the round conceded putts to each other that allowed the hole to be halved or won, even though they were playing individual matches agasinst par.. One person lost to par and did not advance however the other person beat par and was advanced to the next round. Their arguement is that they only gave putts which would have obviously been conceded in any match. 4″-8″s. I am interested in the official interepretation and rules governing this situation for my personal understanding and self awareness as I may play par in subsequant rounds. Your response is appreciated
September 25th, 2010 at 11:55 am
Carol Morgan writes:
On the putting green can you use the palm of your hand to clear your line of sand between the ball and the hole?
September 26th, 2010 at 10:49 am
Ryan Gregg writes:
Kip,
When playing a Par Competition (Rule 32), a player that does not return a score on a hole (he doesn’t hole out), would be recorded as a loss on that hole. It is a form of stroke play, yet it is scored as match play. Concessions are not part of this format.
September 26th, 2010 at 8:37 pm
Ryan Gregg writes:
Carol,
Yes, a player may use the palm of their hand to remove loose impediments on the putting green. The only restriction when removing loose impediments on the putting green is that a player may not press anything down. See Rule 16-1 (i).
September 26th, 2010 at 8:42 pm
DEBBY BORZINI writes:
IN STROKE PLAY – MAY A PLAYER AFTER HOLING OUT MAKE A PRACTICE PUTT ON THE PUTTING GREEN WHERE SHE JUST HOLED OUT. BY THIS I MEAN SHE ACTUALLY PUTTS A BALL INTO THE HOLE.
September 27th, 2010 at 5:59 am
Carlos T writes:
On my first hole, I hit a 5 iron in the middle of the fairway, but could not find my ball. After a few minutes, I asked my fellow players to keep looking and I announced I would hit a provisional off the tee. I hit my 5 iron again and when I approached my second ball, I found my first ball about 5 yards ahead — it had plugged right next to a sprinkler head in some very wet ground. I told the guys I was playing with it, I had found my first ball and proceeded to play it out. At the club house I was recounting my round and I was told that I played the hole wrong. I was told once I had gone back to the tee and played the second ball, I should have played that ball, even though I found the first. We were playing in a club tournament, so I disqualified myself. Was that the right call?
September 27th, 2010 at 9:39 am
Ryan Gregg writes:
Debby,
Yes, Rule 7-2 states that a player may practice putting on the hole last played. However, a Committee may adopt a Local Rule prohibiting practice on the hole last played.
September 27th, 2010 at 11:55 am
Ryan Gregg writes:
Carlos,
A provisional ball is played prior to going forward to search for the original ball. Once you played another ball it became the ball in play under stroke and distance, Rule 27-1. When you played the original ball it was a wrong ball, Rule 15-3, and you were required to correct the error prior to starting the next hole. When you failed to correct the error you were disqualified.
September 27th, 2010 at 12:00 pm
Michelle writes:
During the alternate shot matches in the Ryder Cup this morning, on the 17th hole, Zach Johnson ran the back of his hand across the green just before he removed his ball mark and placed his ball. He did this behind the putting line, not in it, but would this be considered testing the surface?
October 2nd, 2010 at 10:14 am
Ryan Gregg writes:
Michelle,
A player may not roughen or scrape the surface of a green for the purpose of testing it. If a player does so, he is penalized two-strokes under Rule 16-1. However, a player may remove loose impediments on the putting green by any means necessary without pressing anything down. The referee must have felt that Zach Johnson was removing loose impediments and not testing the surface of the putting green.
October 4th, 2010 at 3:32 pm
Dave writes:
During a tournament last week I was told using an unmarked ball would result in a two stroke penalty. I know it is recommended that you place an identifying mark on your ball but is it required by the rules?
October 5th, 2010 at 10:51 am
Ryan Gregg writes:
Dave,
Rule 6-5 recommends that a player puts an identification on his ball. It is not a requirement. A player may accidently play a wrong ball, under Rule 15-3, that results in a two stroke penalty.
October 5th, 2010 at 11:16 am
Steve Brown writes:
I understand a player cannot carry a weighted training aid in his bag unless it is the 14th club; he must not use it to warm up between strokes or play.
Can a player carry “alignment” rods in his bag as long as he does not use them during a round?
Can a player carry a weighted club if he does not use it during the round along with 14 regular clubs???
October 5th, 2010 at 12:48 pm
Ryan Gregg writes:
Steve,
A player may carry a weighted training aid in his bag and it doesn’t count as one of his 14 clubs. As long as it is not a club. If it is a club (it has a club face) it would count in his 14 clubs and a player would be penalized if it was non-conforming (e.g., molded grip). Decision 14-3/10.3 says that a player may carry alignment rods, but may not use them during the round.
October 5th, 2010 at 1:22 pm
Dave writes:
A player hits a poor shot that only moves a few feet and then strikes it again in anger. What is the correct procedure? Does he play it as it lies after being struck? Replace it with a one stroke penalty? Is there a penalty for swinging at your ball in anger after a poor shot if you miss it?
October 7th, 2010 at 11:49 am
Ryan Gregg writes:
Dave,
When the player struck the ball in anger, it was not a stroke. The player would be penalized one stroke under Rule 18-2a and was required to replace the ball. There is no penalty for swinging at the ball in disgust and failing to move it. Also see Decision 18-2a/23.
October 7th, 2010 at 3:55 pm
G. Kimura writes:
Please define “near” in the context of Rule 7 (practice), “on of near the teeing ground.”
October 8th, 2010 at 11:15 pm
david smith writes:
Can stones be removed from bunkers that may cause personnal injury to the player if in the process of taking a stroke he or she is hit? I thing I looked at this rule change but now I can’t find it and I have been questioned about it.
Thanks
DDS
October 10th, 2010 at 10:18 am
Ryan Gregg writes:
G. Kimura,
There is no clear definition of “near”. It is up to the Committee to decide what is reasonably near the teeing ground. I feel that it has to be an obvious violation before a penalty is incurred.
October 12th, 2010 at 6:09 pm
Ryan Gregg writes:
David,
Only by Local Rule may stones be removed from a bunker. See Appendix I. Otherwise, a player would be penalized under Rule 13-4 for moving a loose impediment from the bunker. As an additional option, the player may declare the ball unplayable and drop the ball under the options of Rule 28.
October 12th, 2010 at 6:13 pm
Ian Cussen writes:
During a recent NCGA match play event, my opponent’s drive came to rest on a pile of grass clippings to the side of the fairway that we deemed to be too small for potential removal, i.e. if the pile was a collection large enough scheduled for removal, he would have been granted relief. We all agreed that the ball should be played as it lies. While searching for my own ball I turned around and noticed that my opponent had removed the grass clippings from all sides of his ball, improving his lie so that the ball now sat on a tee of grass clippings. I notified my opponent that while he was entitled to remove loose impediments behind his ball, that same entitlement did not apply to those clippings in front of the ball, unless he removed each blade of grass one at a time. He called the rules official at the clubhouse and my protest was over ruled.
I’m not sure who was right and what the penalty would have been had the decision resulted in my favor.
Thank you.
October 12th, 2010 at 6:40 pm
Ryan Gregg writes:
Ian,
Rule 23 allows a player to remove loose impediments. The grass clippings around the ball are loose impediments and may be removed by any means necessary as long as the ball is not moved. Even though the player improved his lie of the ball by the removal of the loose impediments, there is no penalty.
October 12th, 2010 at 9:24 pm
KEVIN KELLY writes:
ARE DIRT OR GRAVEL CART PATHS CONSIDERED AN IMMOVABLE OBSTRUCTION?
October 13th, 2010 at 5:01 pm
Ed writes:
An eight foot section of a wooden fence that was the OB boundary fell onto the course and hadn’t been replaced yet by the course workers. Does the OB line remain as it was originally before the fence fell? Or does it now snake around the outline of the section of the fence lying on the course? And what if a ball should end up on the fence or tangled among the cross pieces? Any relief?
October 13th, 2010 at 7:49 pm
Ryan Gregg writes:
Kevin,
The definition of obstructions include artificially surfaced roads and paths. However, the Committee may declare a road or path as an integral part of the course.
October 14th, 2010 at 12:54 pm
Ryan Gregg writes:
Ed,
The Out of Bounds boundary line has not changed. The player would not be entitled to releif from the fence without penalty. See Decision 24/4.
October 14th, 2010 at 12:56 pm
pat serna writes:
I was playing golf at a course that had lateral hazard with OB next to it. a player hit second shot flew the hazard and landed OB.
Player claimed since crossed the hazard first his ball was deemed to be in the hazard. He found his ball on the practice tee clearly OB.
Is he correct?
October 15th, 2010 at 10:41 am
Ryan Gregg writes:
Pat,
This ball is clearly out of bounds. The lateral water hazard margin ends at the out of bounds. The player was required to proceed under Rule 27-1 (stroke and distance). When he dropped and played his ball under the water hazard (Rule 26), he committed a serious breach of Rule 20-7 (wrong place) and was required to correct it prior to starting the play of the next hole or be subject to disqualification.
October 15th, 2010 at 9:02 pm
J.A.S. writes:
In a match play competition, both players are on the green. Player A is 15 feet away. Player B is 20 feet away, putts his ball and leaves the putt 3 feet short. He then says he will putt out and does so. Is player B putting out of turn when he putts out? If so, what is the penalty and how should you proceed?
Thanks.
October 18th, 2010 at 8:11 am
Ryan Gregg writes:
J.A.S.,
Player B did play out of turn. There is no penalty, however Play A may recall the stroke. See Rule 10-2
October 19th, 2010 at 9:11 am
Ed writes:
I need some further help with Dec.15/14 in which the player substitutes a ball for a ball in a bunker that he thought was his and was trying to proceed under Rule 28. He plays the wrongly substituted ball and must correct his error or be disqualified if it is a serious breach of playing from a wrong place. Is it correct to say that if it turns out that the original ball was found in the same bunker near where the other ball was found, the player would not have committed a serious breach and, therefore, the score with the substituted ball would count plus 3 penalty strokes? Or, what if it should turn out that the place where the first ball was dropped was a correct place under 28 b or c for where the original ball was found? Is there still a two stroke penalty for playing from a wrong place? I’m thinking since Rule 28 allows substitution, maybe the player actually didn’t really do anything wrong other than the 1 penalty stroke under Rule 28.
October 19th, 2010 at 9:33 am
Ryan Gregg writes:
Ed,
The player proceeded under inapplicable Rule. Rule 28b or c was not an option with the substituted ball because the player is required to know where his original ball is prior to using these options. Rule 27-1 was the applicable Rule. When he dropped and played the substituted ball, the original ball was lost (see definition of lost ball). The only time that the player would be able to continue with the substituted ball is if it wasn’t a serious breach of Rule 20-7 (wrong place). Also see Decision 28/15 and Decision 20-7c/3.
October 19th, 2010 at 11:10 am
Ed writes:
Just one more question to wrap up my Dec. 15/14 situation: as the player was required to proceed under Rule 27, there is no opportunity to make use of the fact that he just happened to drop a ball that correctly followed Rule 28. Once the clock starts ticking under 27, that’s the only route to follow (to mix metaphors). Is that correct?
October 19th, 2010 at 11:37 am
Ryan Gregg writes:
Ed,
That is correct. Rule 27 is the operating Rule and when he drops he is doing so under that Rule it just happens to be in a very wrong place.
October 20th, 2010 at 8:51 am
Butch Larroche writes:
Hi Ryan, Butch Larroche here from the Sharp Park Golf Club. I have a few rules questions for you.
Behind the third green of our course, Sharp Park, is a marked lateral hazard. The gardening staff has taken to storing a watering hose used for watering the green inside the red stakes and in the hazard. If a shot comes to rest in the hazard but the hose interferes with the stance and or swing does a player get relief from the hose in the hazard?
Also, what is the ruling on natural areas/environmental areas? If your ball is in the fairway, but you have to stand in the sensitive area ie inside the line of red stakes with green tops, do you get stance relief?
Thank you!!!
October 21st, 2010 at 10:33 am
Angela Jones writes:
We are about to play our club championship on Wednesday and Friday.Because we are mostly retired and play every day is it against the rules to play on the Thursday between rounds?
October 24th, 2010 at 12:11 pm
Ryan Gregg writes:
Angela,
Since the competition is not contested on consecutive days, you may practice on the course on Thursday. See Rule 7.
October 25th, 2010 at 9:22 am
Dave writes:
At a junior stroke play even at our club player A hits her ball into the fairway. Player B also hits a good tee shot and her ball hits ball A and moves it a foot or so. Now the fun begins, as parents and spectators have no end of suggestions on what to do next: replace ball A, leave it where it is, replace it by dropping it, replace it by placing it. Finally, the player decides to use 3-3 and plays the original ball where it is now located after being moved by ball B. The player also places (not drops) a second ball under 3-3 at the spot where she thought ball A had been a rest before being moved by ball B. She says she wants the original ball to count. So, is it correct to say that neither ball was played by the rules, and, therefore, the original ball must be the ball to count, strokes taken plus 2 stroke penalty under 18-5?
October 25th, 2010 at 4:25 pm
Ron Avanzino writes:
On the left side of one of our fairways, the owner of the adjacent property has put down some 4by4′s along his property line which is also the boundary of the course. A portion of some of these posts are inside the boundary stake line by and inch or so. A tee ball came to rest in bounds and along side one of these posts which are sunk into the ground partially and are unmoveable. The post interfered with his swing. Our interpretation was that since a part of the post was inbounds, that made it an unmoveable obstruction and the player was entitled to relief. We based this on the rule that makes a ball that rests partially in bounds and partially out considered to be inbounds. If the posts are partially in bouncs and partially out, they should be considered in bounds. Are we correct?
October 26th, 2010 at 10:46 am
Ryan Gregg writes:
Dave,
When the ball was moved it was required to be replaced under Rule 18-5. If the players didn’t know the exact spot in which to replace the ball, then a spot should be estimated and the ball should be dropped under 20-3c. I think the second ball (the one not selected to count) should count without penalty if they knew from where the ball had moved. If they didn’t know the spot, then the original ball counts with a two-stroke penalty added to the player’s score for violation of 18-5.
October 26th, 2010 at 11:13 am
Ryan Gregg writes:
Ron,
If the 4×4 posts are not used to indicate the boundary line, then they should be defined as immovable obstructions. The player would be entitled to releif as prescribed in Rule 24-2.
October 26th, 2010 at 11:20 am
Butch Larroche writes:
Hi Ryan, Butch Larroche here from the Sharp Park Golf Club. I have a few rules questions for you.
Behind the third green of our course, Sharp Park, is a marked lateral hazard. The gardening staff has taken to storing a watering hose used for watering the green inside the red stakes and in the hazard. If a shot comes to rest in the hazard but the hose interferes with the stance and or swing does a player get relief from the hose in the hazard?
Also, what is the ruling on natural areas/environmental areas? If your ball is in the fairway, but you have to stand in the sensitive area ie inside the line of red stakes with green tops, do you get stance relief?
Thank you!!!
October 26th, 2010 at 1:43 pm
Ryan Gregg writes:
Butch,
The hose is a movable obstruction and you would be entitled to relief as prescribed in Rule 24-1.
If your stance is in an environmentally sensitive area, you must take relief so that you no longer have interference by the ESA. See Appendix I.
October 26th, 2010 at 1:56 pm
Dave writes:
A player taking relief from an immovable obstruction properly uses a club to measure the one club length dropping area. When dropping the ball he leaves the club on the ground. The dropped ball does not touch the club when dropped or after coming to rest; however, when the player lifts the club he moves his ball. Is that a penalty under 18-2? The definition of equipment only forgives small items such as a coin or tee when used in the marking process.
October 29th, 2010 at 9:11 am
Ryan Gregg writes:
Dave,
Yes, the player would be penalized 1-stroke under Rule 18-2a and would be required to replace the ball.
October 29th, 2010 at 9:18 am
Jim Allan writes:
A ball that is hit into a fairway that is saturated(do to over watering or rain)and balls almost always plug.If you can’t find the ball, is this always a lost ball or does this fall under abnormal ground conditions if everyone agrees it went in this area?
Thanks
October 30th, 2010 at 4:26 pm
Ryan Gregg writes:
Jim,
If it is casual water, Rule 25-1c applies and the playe and the spot where the ball last crossed the outermost limits of the abnormal ground condition must be determined and, for the purpose of applying this Rule, the ball is deemed to lie at this spot and the player must proceed as follows:
(i)Through the Green: If the ball last crossed the outermost limits of the abnormal ground condition at a spot through the green, the player may substitute another ball, without penalty, and take relief as prescribed in Rule 25-1b(i).
If it was not casual water, the ball is lost if it is not found within 5 minutes and Rule 27-1 applies.
November 1st, 2010 at 8:28 pm
Tom writes:
A player lies in the rough by green. He chooses to putt the ball using a mallet putter. In his stoke he does not hit it with the putter face, but contacts it with the bottom of the putter. Is this a violation of Rule 14-1?
November 2nd, 2010 at 8:22 am
Dave writes:
With the back of his putter head a player attempts to clear away a loose clump of grass that is on his line of putt. He is not very coordinated so the clump of grass is moved only an inch or so and is still on his line of putt. He then a) intentionally steps on the clump of grass or b) accidentally steps on the loose clump. I assume a two stroke penalty in a); what about b)? He did press down a loose impediment on his line of putt but did so accidentally.
November 2nd, 2010 at 2:08 pm
Ryan Gregg writes:
Tom,
Rule 14-1 states that the ball must be fairly struck with the head of the club, not the face. No penalty.
November 2nd, 2010 at 2:21 pm
Ryan Gregg writes:
Dave,
The player would be penalized two-stokes under Rule 16-1 whether or not he did so accidently or purposefully. A player is not allowed to press down loose impediments on his line of putt.
November 2nd, 2010 at 2:43 pm
Dave writes:
Player A is in a large greenside bunker. His partner B, being a nice guy, goes around the bunker to get a rake to toss to his partner. Before B gives the rake to his partner he a) rakes an area of footprints well away from the line of play of his partner and says nothing to his partner, b) after raking the footprints B suggests to his partner how to play the shot based maybe on what he may have learned by raking the bunker, c) and d) doing the two same things from a similar greenside bunker. Are there penalties assessed to A in any of these situations?
November 5th, 2010 at 3:15 pm
Ryan Gregg writes:
Dave,
In threesome, foursome, best-ball or four-ball play, where the context so admits, the word “player” includes his partner or partners.
When the player’s partner rakes the bunker, the player is disqualified from the hole in match play or is penalized two-strokes in stroke play under Rule 13-4.
November 6th, 2010 at 5:14 pm
Dave Exline writes:
Question:..While taking a swing at the ball, on the down stroke, the ground under my right foot collapses about 4″..a gopher hole or run.
…and the club makes contact for a very poor shot…
Can the ball be replaced without penality and shot taken again…or
“just play on”…
Dave Exline
November 9th, 2010 at 7:29 am
J.A.S. writes:
In a friendly game, Player A hits his ball from the fairway to 2 feet. Player B hits his ball from the fairway and knocks Player A’s ball 2″ from the hole, his own ball bouncing to 3 feet. Player A replaces his ball at 2 feet and both players made birdies. This started a conversation about “what if?” What if Player A’s ball was knocked into the hole. Would it be “holed out” and count as an Eagle, or would it be replaced at 2 feet and have to be putted out for a birdie? Also, in a tournament, what would be the penalty for not following the correct procedure?
Thanks.
November 10th, 2010 at 9:24 am
Ryan Gregg writes:
Dave,
The stroke counts and the ball should be played as it lies.
November 11th, 2010 at 9:22 am
Ryan Gregg writes:
J.A.S.,
See Rule 18-5. Player A’s ball must be replaced. If it is not replaced the player would receive a two-stroke penalty in stroke play or loss of hole in match play under this rule.Player B’s ball must be played as it lies.
November 11th, 2010 at 9:24 am
Scott writes:
With respect to Rule 9-2, Can a player go up to check the status of their opponent’s ball if it seems the ball’s tee shot might be in a water hazard, lost or out of bounds.?
November 14th, 2010 at 5:30 am
Dave writes:
Player A chips his ball close to hole and goes up to mark his ball. Before he gets a chance to finish marking and lifting Player B chips up towards the hole such that Player A lifts his ball while another ball is in motion. Does A get a penalty under 22-1? Could B get a penalty for not allowing A to finish marking? If one or both of the players were unaware of what the other player was doing are any penalties waived?
November 14th, 2010 at 9:56 am
Ryan Gregg writes:
Scott,
Yes, a player may determine the location of his opponent’s ball prior to making his next stroke. However, he must play without undue delay under Rule 6-7.
November 15th, 2010 at 9:26 am
Ryan Gregg writes:
Dave,
If no verbal communication has taken place prior to the lifting, player A could be penalized two-strokes for violation of Rule 22-1. The Committee would have to ask the player why he was marking and lifting it. If he says “because I thought that player B’s ball was going to strike it”, then the penalty would apply. If A tells B that he wishes to mark and lift his ball, and B fails to give him the opportunity, B would be disqualified under 3-4 or would lose the hole in match play based on decision 2/3.
November 15th, 2010 at 10:39 am
Mark writes:
Player A is about to chip to the green. Before Player A strikes the ball, Player B (who is closer to the hole) hits his shot. Player A hits his chip while Player B’s ball is in motion. B’s ball stops 3 feet from the hole. A’s ball hits B’s ball and stops 1 foot from the hole. Are there any penalties? Must Player A and/or Player B replay their strokes?
November 17th, 2010 at 5:27 pm
Ryan Gregg writes:
Mark,
Rule 19-5a applies to Player A’s ball. He would play the ball as it lies. Rule 18-5 applies to Player B’s ball. He would replace his ball to where it had come to rest. No penalty to either player.
I couldn’t tell by your description if the balls had collided while in motion. If so, both balls would be played as they lie, without penalty. Rule 19-5b.
November 18th, 2010 at 9:19 am
Ed writes:
A player drops from a boundary stake thinking he gets obstruction relief. Dec. 18-2a/3 tells us the player incurs a two stroke penalty. Let’s say when he dropped the ball he did so in an improper manner (just tosses it underhand, for example). Does the player incur an additional penalty or is the penalty maxed out at two strokes?
November 18th, 2010 at 10:36 am
Ryan Gregg writes:
Ed,
Decision 18-2a/3 applies and the player would receive a total of two penalty strokes. Ultimately, the player has picked up his ball in play and failed to replace it.
November 18th, 2010 at 4:41 pm
bob plate writes:
When declaring a “provisional ball”, does the playing have to name the first ball and the second ball to the other players. Example, first ball Saxon 1, provisonal ball Saxon 2.
November 25th, 2010 at 8:00 am
Ryan Gregg writes:
Bob,
No. The player does not have to announce the type or brand of the ball that he is playing. He just has to announce that he is playing a provisional ball. It is not a bad idea to identify the ball just in case it is hit into a similar area as the original.
November 28th, 2010 at 9:35 am
Ed writes:
A player carefully removes a small branch that is lying close to his ball, but he is not careful enough and his ball moves. Rule 18 tells us he must replace his ball with a one stroke penalty. Must he also replace the branch next to his ball? Or can he play the next shot free of the loose impediment?
November 28th, 2010 at 11:24 am
Ryan Gregg writes:
Ed,
The player would not have to replace the loose impediment. See decision 23-1/8.
November 29th, 2010 at 9:40 am
Ed writes:
Ryan,
I had read 23-1/8 but was still unclear as it dealtl more with a player trying to circumvent the possible penalty by invoking a rule such as 12,15 or 22. Thanks for clarifying the 18 penalty situation as the last sentence of the decision leaves my question above unanswered.
November 29th, 2010 at 11:30 am
Ryan Gregg writes:
Ed,
The decision says that a player may not circumvent the penalty under 18-2 by moving the loose impediments while the ball is lifted under Rule 12, 15 or 22. If the player’s ball is moved during the removal of a loose impediment he is penalized under Rule 18-2a and the ball must be replaced. The loose impediment does not need to be replaced.
November 29th, 2010 at 11:38 am
Ian Cussen writes:
Hi,
Can you clarify the rule about accidently moving your ball marker which incurred a one stroke penalty to Ian Poulter in Dubai recently. Does the penalty apply to you if the mark is moved by another player who mistakenly did not see it while walking on the green or by a putt from another player whose ball runs over the mark and causes it to flip over?
Thanks
November 29th, 2010 at 12:54 pm
Ryan Gregg writes:
Ian,
Ian Poulter was penalized one stroke for causing his ball marker to move under Rule 20-1. Since his actions were not directly attributable to the specific act of marking and lifting the ball mark. See decision 20-1/15.
If a fellow competitor accidentally moves a player’s ball marker, there is no penalty and the marker must be replaced. Rule 18-1 applies. If it is accidentally moved by an opponent (match play), the opponent is penalized one stroke under Rule 18-3. There is no penalty if the opponent presses down the ball marker (see Decision 20-1/6.5). If the ball marker is moved by a ball, there is no penalty and the marker must be replaced.
November 29th, 2010 at 2:22 pm
Drew writes:
Can you provide an example from your experience that would help explain the apparent contradiction between Rule 6-1 “The player is responsible for knowing the rules” and 34-1.b.iii which forgives a player from disqualification for “failure to include a penalty that…he did not know he had incurred.” If a player is supposed to know the rules, why the free pass? So if a player honestly said, “Oh, I didn’t know those white stakes were the OB line” and he hadn’t included the penalty on the score for that hole, he would not be dq’d if the error were not discovered until after the competition had closed? That may not be a believable situation. Can you give a better and more reasonable example?
December 1st, 2010 at 3:18 pm
Tim Jacobsen writes:
Our local course at times with watering or rains will have the water hazards overfilled with water. The hazard line is not marked unless it is a tournament but the normal water line is easy to see. If your ball is touching the water where the normally would not be water is the ball deemed to be in the water hazard or can you play using casual water?
December 1st, 2010 at 9:08 pm
Angela Jones writes:
I have a question concerning loose impediments in a bunker.Our bunkers now are full of large leaves and many a time your ball is under the leaves and cannot be seen.We have been removing the leaves to find the ball but then we are not covering the ball back up again.Is this a rule violatin and if so can we adapt a local rule to cover this?Our grounds crew have not cleaned up the traps in over two weeks.
December 2nd, 2010 at 7:24 am
Ryan Gregg writes:
Tim,
Decision 25/3 says that the overflow from a water hazard is casual water. However, if the course is not using stakes and lines to define the water hazard, then the water line should be used as the boundary of the water hazard. It is up to the Committee to correctly mark the margins of the water hazards.
December 2nd, 2010 at 9:05 am
Ryan Gregg writes:
Angela,
Decision 33-8/31 allows a Committee to adopt a local rule for an accumulation of leaves “through the green” only. So you would not be permitted to adopt a local rule for the leaves in the bunker. Rule 12-1 applies. The players are required to recover the ball with the leaves so that just a portion is visible. Failure to follow this procedure is a two stroke penalty in stroke play or loss of hole in match play. Also see Decision 13-4/33.
December 2nd, 2010 at 9:18 am
Ryan Gregg writes:
Drew,
Tough question. Let’s say that in the Dustin Johnson situation at the PGA Championship we didn’t discover, until after the competition closed, that he had grounded his club in the bunker. When asked about it he says “I don’t think I did ground my club, or I didn’t know my ball was in a bunker”. Since the competition has closed, the results may not be changed. However, Rule 34 does allow a Committee to change the results when the player knew there was a violation. Dustin says he grounded his club in the area and knew it was a penalty, but didn’t report it. In this case, Rule 34-1b (iii) requires that he be disqualified. He knew he had returned a score that was too low since he didn’t include the penalty he will be disqualified. He cheated. The Rules of Golf do not contemplate a player lying. The Rules of Golf are based on the premise that players are honorable. When you think about it, it would be impossible to write rules based on anything else.
December 2nd, 2010 at 10:26 am
Chet writes:
I was playing the 9th hole of a local golf course, that is a dogleg right with a lake running all the way down the right side. It is a blind tee shot. I hit my first tee shot more right than I wanted, so I hit a second tee shot. First question is shoud I have declared that I was going to play a provisional ball. Being a blind tee shot, I had know way of knowing if the ball was in fact in the water. I hit a second tee shot and upon walking up the right side of the fairway, I found both balls [both with my marks on them]. One ball was about 15yards ahead of the other. So not seeing them land because of the blind tee shot, I hit the ball that was farthest away from the flag. What is the rule? Thanks.w
December 2nd, 2010 at 4:13 pm
Ryan Gregg writes:
Chet,
If you were not sure whether your ball was lost in the water hazard you were permitted to play a provisional ball under Rule 27-2.(also see decision 26-1/1 for definition of virtually certain). Since you did not announce the playing of the second ball as a provisional ball it became the ball in play under Rule 27-1. When you reached the two balls and could not differentiate between the two, you must choose one of the balls and it will be the ball in play (see Decision 27/11).
December 2nd, 2010 at 4:33 pm
Drew writes:
Regarding Chet’s question/answer above. Dec. 27/11 deals with an original ball and a provisional ball. In Chet’s case there was no provisional ball as the second ball he played became the ball in play and the first ball had no more status. So, it may be a cruel lesson in properly marking the ball, but it is certainly arguable that both balls are lost unless, in the spirit of the Christmas holidays, you and the ruling bodies agree that in this scenario, as in 27/11, “it would be inequitable to require the player to return to the tee playing 5….”
December 3rd, 2010 at 2:35 pm
Frank Gattis writes:
If you do not finish a hole what score are you required to post for that hole for handicap purposes? I have heard you are required to post one over par or in other words, you post a NET par. Please advise the correct way to handle this fairly common situation especially if you are a hack like me.
December 3rd, 2010 at 7:06 pm
Ryan Gregg writes:
Frank,
You are required to post the score you most likely would have made. If a hole is not played or not played under the Rules of Golf, then you would post par plus any handicap stroke you were entitled to. See Section 4 and 5 of the Handicap Manual.
December 6th, 2010 at 10:41 am
Ed writes:
A group in a tournament is having a very hard time as the players are slow anyway and are also spending time searching for wayward shots. Eventually the slow group waves through the following group, maybe more than one. Is such an action a breach of Rule 6-3b (or any other rule) in an NCGA/USGA event? What about a local club event with no formal pace of play policy? And, if there is a penalty, who all gets penalized?
December 8th, 2010 at 2:07 pm
Ryan Gregg writes:
Ed,
There is no penalty for allowing a group to play through. See the etiquette section of the Rules of Golf (page 2). Penalties for breach Rule 6-7 may be imposed if it is determined that player’s are unduly delaying play.
December 8th, 2010 at 3:16 pm
Joe writes:
Hello there,
I was wondering if it is okay to wear a heart rate monitor while playing in a golf tournament?
Thanks!
December 10th, 2010 at 12:58 pm
Ryan Gregg writes:
Joe,
Exception to Rule 14-3 states that a player may use a device for a medical condition and the Committee is satisfied that it’s use does not give the player any undue advantage over other players. If the player is wearing it for any other reason, he would be disqualified under Rule 14-3.
December 10th, 2010 at 4:14 pm
Robbie writes:
Some 25 years ago, I seemed to have read this in a NCGA magazine regarding “abandon ball”.
Today it seems as I have breached the Rules.
Take this senerio. I have hit my tee shot some 30 yards short on the third hole at Spyglass Hill in the iceplant. Before looking for ball and leaving the tee, I declared to my competitor, I am abandoning my shot and I am re-teeing. Having hit my shot next to the hole, I tap in for a four.
Now, have I played correctly ?
Also, can I abandon a ball anytime throught the course or is it only limited to the teeing ground ?
December 12th, 2010 at 8:18 am
Ryan Gregg writes:
Robbie,
When you played your next shot from the tee without announcing it as a provisional, it became the ball in play and your original ball was lost. A player may not declare a ball lost. See definition of lost ball. A player always has the right to abandon his ball and return to where he last played under penalty of one stroke under Rule 27-1. Also see Rule 20-5.
December 13th, 2010 at 10:09 am
Ed writes:
A nervous golfer playing St. Andrews for the first time swings and misses for his first stroke. Trying to regroup he accidentally knocks his ball off the tee, for a one stroke penalty (11-3/1). He re-tees and somehow, again, accidentally knocks his ball off the tee. Is it correct to say that this time he can re-tee without penalty as after lifting the ball to re-tee, the ball was not in play?
December 14th, 2010 at 2:50 pm
Ryan Gregg writes:
Ed,
Great question. You have successfully Stumped the Rules Wizards! Your question was so good that we had to go all the way to the source. Let me explain. My initial response was that it was a single penalty under Rule 18-2, but my colleagues convinced me that it was two separate penalties under Rule 18-2 and Decision 1-4/12 Principle 3 did not apply. Not fully convinced, I called my friends at the USGA. They too, were in disagreement. They took the question to the person that was responsible for writing Decision 1-4/12 (Lew Blakey). He confirmed that Principle 3 does apply and that it is a single one stroke penalty under 18-2. The act of picking up the ball and putting it back on the tee does not break up the act. It is considered one single act resulting in one penalty stroke applied. The player would be playing his third stroke from the tee.
December 14th, 2010 at 3:09 pm
Dan writes:
I would like to continue the discussion about the ball in play at St. Andrews, and bring in the question from Robbie playing the third hole at Spyglass. If Robbie, playing under 27-1 after his first shot had disappeared into the ice plant, had accidentally knocked his ball off the tee would there have been a penalty under 18-2? Was his second ball in play when he put it on the tee? 11-3/3 tells us “There is no penalty.” The St. Andrews player was also proceeding under 27-1 when he re-teed, and, therefore, I suggest, the second 18-2 penalty would not be applied “because a teed ball is not in play until a stroke has been made at it” (11-3/3). It’s Christmas and he has been looking forward to this round at St. Andrews his whole life. He needs all the help he can get.
December 15th, 2010 at 10:48 am
Ryan Gregg writes:
Dan,
When the player at Spyglass returned to the tee he was proceeding under stroke and distance and his ball was not in play. However, when the player at St. Andrews whiffed, his ball was in play. When he then bumped it off the tee he was required to replace it under 18-2 and not 27-1 as stated in decision 11-3/1. When the player bumped the ball off the tee a second time it was considered a violation of the same penalty multiple times and a sing penalty applies. See Principle 3 of Decision 1-4/12. Also see above.
December 15th, 2010 at 12:19 pm
Neil writes:
At the beginning of a competitive strokeplay round, one of the competitors hands his scorecard to his caddie. The caddie then marks the scorecard for the entire round and then at the end of the round hands the scorecard to the player, who then signs the card and returns the card. Is the scorecard acceptable?
December 15th, 2010 at 3:13 pm
Ryan Gregg writes:
Neil,
A marker is assigned by the Committee and the marker is responsible for recording the scores and the marker is responsible for his caddie. The marker must sign the card (not the caddie) and hand it to the player to return to the Committee at the conclusion of the round. If there is and discrepancies to the card it should be verified with the marker because it was his responsibility to record them and it is up to the player to make sure he is returning an accurate card. See definition of marker and Rule 6-6.
December 15th, 2010 at 3:35 pm
Sean H writes:
I’m a 14 year old boy and I was playing in a junior tournament in northern California and I hit a ball of the tee on a par 3 and my ball across the water and the ball crossed the water and it hit a golf cart and bounced back into the water. I was able to drop the ball across the water by where my ball hit the cart. I dropped on the other side of the cart path closer to the because I had no other spot to drop it. I talked to the rules official that was there he had me the dropped ball and I hit a provisional of the tee. He had me play both balls. I ended up getting a 5 on the hole.
Was what they had me do the right thing or should i of not gotten a penalty stoke. Also when I hit my tee shot I couldn’t see the cart because of plants hanging over the water.
hope u can answer it for me,
Sean H
December 18th, 2010 at 7:45 pm
Ryan Gregg writes:
Sean,
When your ball hit the cart is was a rub of the green (see definition of rub of the green) and Rule 19-1 applies. You are required to play the ball where it came to rest. Since this spot was at a place that was in a water hazard you must proceed under the water hazard rule (Rule 26). Using the spot where it last crossed the margin of the hazard as the reference point for taking relief under penalty of one stroke.
December 20th, 2010 at 9:13 am
Jim Rowney writes:
In a tournament, my son hit a ball over the 18th green at Spanish Bay into a hazard behind the green marked with red stakes with green tips. His competitors and a NCGA rules official present agreed to a “virtual certainty” that the ball was in the hazard, although he was not allowed to enter the hazard to search for it. My son wanted to drop the ball at the point the ball entered the hazard (within 2 club lengths, no closer to the pin), as this gave him a short chip to the pin. The rules official advised him that this was NOT an option, because the line of the hazard had a concave curvature relative to the pin, and a drop 2 club lengths away would be closer to the hole. He advised that the ONLY 2 options were to re-take the shot from the original position (175 yards aways from deep rough), or go to the other side of the hazard (also not a good option). However, with a red staked lateral hazard, can’t you drop the ball at the EXACT spot where it enterd the hazard, since this is by definition no closer to the pin? Thanks.
December 27th, 2010 at 10:12 am
Ryan Gregg writes:
Jim,
Decision 26-1/18 states that It is usually possible to drop a ball on the near side of a lateral water hazard and conform with Rule 26-1c(i) by dropping the ball close to the hazard margin. Where this is impossible, the player must proceed under one of the other options provided in Rule 26-1.
If the tournament official felt that there was not a place that your son could drop the ball and not be closer to the hole, then the only options given were correct. It is recommended that a dropping zone be added as an additional option when these circumstances occur.
December 27th, 2010 at 11:22 am
Ed writes:
A player hits his tee shot into a water hazard and drops properly and hits the next shot into a bunker (he knows he’s a terrible bunker player) near the green. He takes a quick peek to see if he can spot his original ball and actually finds it outside the water hazard. Now if he plays that newly found ball, I believe he has played a wrong ball (?). But what if he should declare his original ball unplayable, drops it within two club lengths and plays the ball onto the green close to the hole. Now, I think, he has played a wrongly substituted ball, but I’m not sure of how the penalty strokes would be applied and how many. Can you help me count?
December 29th, 2010 at 11:39 am
Ryan Gregg writes:
Ed,
When the player dropped and played after taking relief from the water hazard, that ball was the ball in play and the original ball is lost. You are correct, when he plays the original ball it is a wrong ball and he must abandon it and proceed with the ball he hit into the bunker with a two-stroke penalty under Rule 15-3. If he were to start the play of the next hole without fixing the error, he would be disqualified. If he declares the original ball unplayable, he would be dropping and playing from a wrong place and would be subject to disqualification under Rule 20-7 if it is not a serious breach under that Rule, the player would add a total of three penalty strokes to his score (one-stroke under Rule 28 and two-strokes under 20-7). The player is allowed to substitute under rule 28 so it is not a “wrongly substituted ball”, just one played from a wrong place. Since the only option that would allow him to drop outside the bunker would be 28a (Stroke and Distance), a serious breach of playing from a wrong place occurred if the location where the ball was dropped was nearer the hole than where he played from after dropping from the hazard. If a serious breach has not occurred, the original ball would be the ball in play and he would lie 7 on the putting green (three actual strokes and four penalty strokes – 1 under Rule 26, 1 under Rule 28 and 2 under Rule 20-7).
December 29th, 2010 at 3:07 pm
Dan writes:
Hi Ryan,
I would like to cautiously suggest that in Ed’s water hazard/unplayable ball scenario that, by analogy, Decisions 18-2a/8.5 and 28/15 are applicable. We may get to the same answer as to the penalty strokes, but my suggested ruling does not use Rule 28 even though the player may have thought he was doing so. The key is that “the player was required to play the ball as it lay” (from 18-2a/8.5 and Rule 13) and the ball that needed to be played as it lay is the ball in the bunker. Though the player may have thought he was declaring his found ball unplayable under Rule 28, he was actually violating Rule 13 and 18 as he can’t apply Rule 28 to what was once his original ball because it is no longer in play. It has no more status than an abandoned ball or stray ball as supported by Dec. 28/15 which tells us “procedures 28b and c may not applied except with reference to the …ball in play.” Further, as 18-2a/8.5 tells us, “when he dropped the other ball, he was substituting a ball and that ball became the ball in play. If the location of the original ball was known (he knew it was in the bunker) at the time the substituted ball was dropped (for the “unplayable” ball) the substitution was not permitted…..” Finally, I see 3 penalty strokes: 1 under R. 26 and 2 under 18-2a/8.5. Is my train of thought on track or are you going to derail it?
December 30th, 2010 at 11:54 am
Ryan Gregg writes:
Dan,
Ultimately, we are operating under Decision 34-3/6. We must determine what the player was doing and apply the applicable penalties. He was operating under Rule 28 when he declared the ball unplayable, which he is allowed to do. He receives a one stroke penalty under Rule 28. He is proceeding under Rule 28a. When he drops and plays, he is playing from a wrong place under Rule 20-7. With the one stroke penalty under 26, he has a total of 4 penalty strokes. The principles of Decision 18-2a/8.5 apply, but since he declared his ball unplayable under Rule 28, that penalty must also be added to his score.
December 30th, 2010 at 3:19 pm
Peter Mazzetti writes:
My question is: When I went to address my ball on the green with my putter, I inadvertently hit the ball causing it to oscillate but not role or move from its’ original position. Is this a penalty or the fact that the ball did not move or role there would be no penalty?
Thank you,
Peter Mazzetti
9212580
January 2nd, 2011 at 5:12 pm
Ryan Gregg writes:
Peter,
Rule 18-2 allows a player touch his ball with the club while in the act of addressing it, without penalty.
January 3rd, 2011 at 9:13 am
Carol Morgan writes:
Whilst playing in a match, my opponent after teeing off played a provisional ball as we weren’t sure where his original came to rest. After searching for the original for no more than a minute my opponent says ‘forget it, I’ll play the provisional’ and declared the first ball lost. However the the first ball was spotted straight after this(in play)but opponent carried on with provisional ball. What is the ruling as the search period hadn’t taken 5 mins…should the original ball have been played??
January 3rd, 2011 at 11:19 am
Ryan Gregg writes:
Carol,
There are three actions that make a ball lost. See definition of lost ball. A player may not declare a ball lost and proceed with the provisional. When the player made a stroke at the provisional ball after the original was found it was a wrong ball and loss of hole in match play. Also see Decision 27-2c/2.
January 3rd, 2011 at 11:28 am
Jim Pulliam writes:
Playing winter rules (lift clean and place). Makes course much easier but courses are so muddy have to do it. My questions should the scores be posted? If so it will make my handicap 4 o5 strokes lower than I can shoot in summer when play the ball as it lies
If we are to post should we add 3 or 4 strokes to the posting for the round being much easier with bumping the ball?
Thanks for your help
January 5th, 2011 at 12:51 pm
Barry writes:
Player A plays a ball from the fairway toward a lateral water hazard. Player A finds a ball in a burrowing animal hole. He identifies the ball as his ball wilst it is still in the hole. He calls his opponent over to show him the situation. When the opponient arrives, the ball has disappeard from sight. Player a reaches into the hole with arm then his golf club. The ball is gone. The opponent looks in the lateral water hazard near the hole and finds Player A’s ball in the water below a burrowing animal hole created in the side of the bank of the water hazard. Player A assumes the hole is “J” shaped and the ball has rolled down the hole into the water after he identified it. How to proceed?
January 5th, 2011 at 5:55 pm
Ryan Gregg writes:
Barry,
The ball was still in play and gravity is not an outside agency, so the player must play the ball where it came to rest or use his options available to him under Rule 26-1.
January 6th, 2011 at 9:10 am
Jim Cowan writes:
Jim Pulliam, thank you for your comment. The Handicap System is proactive when it comes to posting scores played under Preferred Lies. That is, the System says the scores shall be posted unless conditions are so poor as to warrant nonposting (and posted to the normal ratings). Only a club can determine whether to suspend all postings . . . an individual cannot make such a determination. The key point is whether the course is playing to its ratings during the winter or not. In the instance that you described the course is no doubt playing longer than normal due to lost roll. If this offsets the improved lies that bumping the ball provides, posting should continue. Thanks again – Jim Cowan, Director of Course Rating and Handicapping
January 6th, 2011 at 9:20 am
Sean H writes:
i was playing a round and i always thought that you caould only mark a ball on the putting surface. the people i was playing with marked the ball off the green. is that correct?
January 9th, 2011 at 8:01 pm
Ryan Gregg writes:
Sean,
You may mark and lift your ball in several instances in the Rules of Golf. Some examples include the following:
Rule 5-3: Marking and lifting to determine if the ball is unfit for play.
Rule 12-2: Marking and lifting for identification.
Rule 22: Marking and lifting because the ball is either assisting or interfering with the play of another player.
Preferred Lies Local Rule: Marking and lifting and replacing within a specified distance because course conditions warrant such procedure.
January 10th, 2011 at 9:08 am
PJ Lowrey - Cypress Lakes Golf Club writes:
What defines a bunker as complete GUR with no penalty for dropping outside the bunker without penalty. Is it a committee statement reclassifying the bunker “through the green”; or will a white line around the bunker suffice? Our club is in the process of renovating bunkers.
January 10th, 2011 at 5:40 pm
Ryan Gregg writes:
PJ,
The Committee would define the bunker as Ground Under Repair by Local Rule or by painting a white line around the bunker. Decision 25/13 states that the entire bunker is through the green and Rule 25-1b(i) applies, unless otherwise specified by the Committee.
January 11th, 2011 at 5:20 pm
Ed writes:
Please help clarify Dec. 20-1/0.7 in regards to lifting a ball to see if it is embedded. Here are three situations with what I think are correct (?) penalties: 1) Player lifts ball without announcing, ball is embedded, drops ball properly (no penalty), 2) Lifts without announcing, ball not embedded, replaces properly without announcing (one stroke penalty), 3) no announcement, lifts ball, ball not embedded, announces, replaces properly (no penalty). If these are correct, and maybe they’re not, the player really does not have to announce if the ball ends up being embedded (“…there is no penalty provided he takes relief under the applicable Rule…”) However, there is a penalty if there is no announcement and either the ball is not embedded or the player decides not to take relief. In other words the player to protect himself should always announce, but sometimes he can get away without announcing. Correct?
January 12th, 2011 at 9:18 am
Dave writes:
I know that if I’m finding the nearest point of relief from a cart path, I need to use the club and swing (which is generally a full swing) that I would have used if the cart path were not there. My question is based on Dec. 20-2c/0.7 which has a player taking relief from a protective fence. From the description it seems his shot is a punch shot, not a full swing, of some sort with a 4 iron. Now when he takes relief and proceeds to find his npr, should he do so with the same punch shot swing? How much leeway does he get?
January 12th, 2011 at 12:25 pm
Ryan Gregg writes:
Ed,
You are correct. Rule 25-2 does not require a player to announce to his fellow-competitor or opponent prior to proceeding. However, if a player is lifting the ball to determine whether the ball is embedded and it is not, the player must announce, and give the fellow-competitor or opponent an opportunity to witness the marking and lifting. Yes, it is always a good idea to inform your marker or opponent when lifting your ball.
January 12th, 2011 at 4:09 pm
Ryan Gregg writes:
Dave,
In Decision 20-2c/0.7 the player has not fulfilled the requirement of complete relief from the obstruction with the club and swing that he intended to use for his situation. If the ball would have met the requirement, he would then be allowed to play in any direction with any club he chooses as described in Decision 20-2c/0.8.
January 12th, 2011 at 4:36 pm
Juan Grande writes:
On the green,in the act of addressing the ball, before the club was grounded, the club hits and moves the ball unintentionaly. The ball was returned to the original spot. Should there be a penalty?
January 15th, 2011 at 5:30 pm
Smith writes:
A golfer hit his drive well left of the fairway and the ball came to rest next to a fence. Being that the golfer could not hit the ball right handed he took a left handed stance and turned a 5 iron backwards; upon taking his stance his back foot was in a gopher hole. He took a drop from the gopher hole and after doing this was able to have a right handed stance and proceeded to hit his shot right handed from where he dropped. I was just wondering if this is the correct play or was there a rule infraction
January 16th, 2011 at 8:24 pm
Rick writes:
A player was taking a penalty drop from a water hazard. The place where he was dropping the ball was next to a cart path and when he dropped the ball the ball hit the path and bounced high in the air and for no known reason the player caught the ball in his hand. Not knowing what to do next, he just dropped again and as the ball ended up in an ok spot by the rules he played on. Does he get a two stroke penalty for catching the bouncing ball just as a caddie would earn for his player if he stopped a ball that was rolling towards a hazard because he wanted to save the ball from disappearing into the pond. Or, does the caught ball count as a non drop? Or could 20-6 save the player from penalty in any way?
January 16th, 2011 at 10:14 pm
Greg writes:
I have played with some golfers who on the putting green put the head of their putter next to their ball as if it is a marker, lift, clean and line the ball up for their putt. I was told along time ago that you may only use a FLAT ROUND marker. If this is true. Is it a one stroke penalty ??
January 17th, 2011 at 10:56 am
Ryan Gregg writes:
Juan,
The player would be penalized one stroke under Rule 18-2a for causing his ball to move.
January 18th, 2011 at 8:58 am
Ryan Gregg writes:
Smith,
The player has proceeded correctly. The player need only determine his relief from the gopher hole with a left handed stroke with the 5-iron. Once the drop has been made for the situation he may choose to play with any stroke and direction. Also see Decision 24-2b/6.
January 18th, 2011 at 9:08 am
Ryan Gregg writes:
Rick,
The player would be penalized two strokes under Rule 1-2 for exerting influence on the ball. See the last paragraph of Decision 20-2c/4.
January 18th, 2011 at 9:16 am
Ryan Gregg writes:
Greg,
The provision in the Note to Rule 20-1 is a recommendation of best practice, but there is no penalty for failing to act in accordance with the Note. Decision 20-1/16 outlines clearly what is considered an acceptable form for marking the ball on the putting green and it includes using the putter head.
January 18th, 2011 at 9:41 am
Greg writes:
Playing in a 2 man scramble We opted to play the ball out of a fairway bunker. My partner sticks a tee in the sand, plays his ball. I bend over to pick up his tee before I hit, grounding my club like a crutch as my back was sore. Being the format where I could rake the bunker and place my ball, I thought grounding my club would be irrelevant without penalty.
January 18th, 2011 at 2:17 pm
Ryan Gregg writes:
Greg,
The Rules of Golf do not apply to a scramble format. It is up to the Committee to decide the Rules/Conditions of Competition pertaining to the event. The only direction I could give you to avoid penalty in your situation is Rule 13-4 Exception 1 – that states a player may ground their club to prevent from falling.
January 19th, 2011 at 9:43 am
Steve writes:
My friends golf ball plugged into side of a steep hill on a green. There was no way to place the ball as close as possible to the original spot on the green without the ball rolling at least 10 yards backwards. He eventually repaired the ball mark, but only just enough so he could place the ball back onto the original spot without the ball rolling backwards farther back on the green. What is the rule when there is no way that the ball will stay in the original spot on the green even after placing the ball there?
January 20th, 2011 at 7:14 pm
Ryan Gregg writes:
Steve,
Rule 20-2d states that the ball must be placed at the nearest spot where it can be placed at rest this is not nearer the hole and not in a hazard. In you case, the player may have to place the ball off the green. However, the player had proceeded correctly by his actions. If there is a blemish in the green that will hold the ball in place, it may be used.
January 21st, 2011 at 9:03 am
Paul Goodwin writes:
A player is in the fairway, lines up his shot and then uses his club to make a mark a foot or so in front of his ball. I don’t think this is legal, but don”t know the rule it is breaking.
January 30th, 2011 at 7:34 am
David writes:
On a par 4 a player hits their tee shot in the rough, but after looking in the proximity the group saw it head and come to rest the group is unable to find the ball. Does the player have to head back to the tee and re-tee (hitting three from the tee) or can they drop where everyone saw the ball go (hitting three from the spot they drop)?
January 30th, 2011 at 10:53 pm
Dave writes:
Is asking or receiving information about how a putt may break while on the green a rule violation and subject to a penalty? I think it is allowed (similar to distance) but my playing partner argued that it is a penalty (similar to asking what club you hit).
January 31st, 2011 at 9:09 am
Ryan Gregg writes:
Paul,
The player is violating Rule 8-2a. “Any mark placed by the player or with his knowledge to indicate the line must be removed before the stroke is made.” Penalty for breach of this Rule is loss of hole in match play or two strokes in stroke play.
January 31st, 2011 at 10:44 am
Ryan Gregg writes:
David,
If the ball is not found within the 5 minute search period allowed, the ball is lost and the player must return to where he had last played from with a one stroke penalty. See definition of lost ball, Rule 27-1 and Rule 20-5.
January 31st, 2011 at 10:51 am
Ryan Gregg writes:
Dave,
Asking how a putt breaks is a violation of Rule 8-1b. Advice is any counsel or suggestion that could influence a player in determining his play….. Penalty for breach of this Rule is loss of hole in match play or two strokes in stroke play.
January 31st, 2011 at 10:57 am
CJ Trappe writes:
Do I have the option of identifying my ball with its in any hazzard? Is So what is the procedure? Also, if I hit a wrong ball out of the hazzard am I assessed penalty strokes? Thanks.
February 1st, 2011 at 5:32 am
Ryan Gregg writes:
CJ,
Yes, you have the right to identify you ball in a hazard. The procedure is out lined in Rule 12-2 – If a player has reason to believe a ball at rest is his and it is necessary to lift the ball in order to identify it, he may lift the ball, without penalty, in order to do so.
Before lifting the ball, the player must announce his intention to his opponent in match play or his marker or a fellow-competitor in stroke play and mark the position of the ball. He may then lift the ball and identify it, provided that he gives his opponent, marker or fellow-competitor an opportunity to observe the lifting and replacement. The ball must not be cleaned beyond the extent necessary for identification when lifted under Rule 12-2.
If the ball is the player’s ball and he fails to comply with all or any part of this procedure, or he lifts his ball in order to identify it when not necessary to do so, he incurs a penalty of one stroke.
If the lifted ball is the player’s ball, he must replace it. If he fails to do so, he incurs the general penalty for a breach of Rule 12-2,but there is no additional penalty under this Rule. It is a two-stroke penalty in stroke play and loss of hole in match play for playing a wrong ball out of a hazard. In stroke play, you must correct the error. See Rule 15-3.
February 1st, 2011 at 9:21 am
Phillip Sexton writes:
When taking relief from an obstruction, may a player take relief left handed than play his shot right handed. If this is permitted can you please direct to to the rule and the decision.
Thank you
February 3rd, 2011 at 6:53 pm
Armando Chang writes:
Hello:
I recently read an article in a golf publication about a rule/strategy
that can be use during a 2-man best ball.
Players A & B are partners and players C & D are partners. Player A has holed out with a par for his team. Player C & D are both on the green along the same line. Player C is putting for birdie and player D is outside of player C and putting for bogey. The putt is conceded to player D so that he cannot show the line to player C. But if player D puts it anyway, then player C is disqualified from the hole.
My questions is, is there any differentiation if your are in a 2-man
best ball tournament vs a 4 players playing 2-man best ball? Thank you
for your help.
Phillip,
Rule 24 has a restriction that a player can not use an unnecessarily abnormal stance, swing or direction of play when determining if relief is allowed.
But, Decision 24-2b/17 says that if a right-handed player must play a stroke left-handed due to some other object preventing the right-handed stroke, he would determine his nearest point of relief using the left-handed stance. Then after dropping, if he was able to play the stroke right-handed he could do so. It further states that if he then had interference with the right-handed stroke, it would be a new situation and he could take further relief.
Armando,
The prohibition against the player putting after his putt has been conceded only applies in match play. A tournament where four players are playing and counting two balls is a stroke play tournament so there is no such prohibition.
February 4th, 2011 at 11:28 am
Lucille writes:
If you are on the fringe of the green and you want to putt to the hole, but there is sand and dirt on the fringe between you and the hole. Can you brush away the sand and dirt? I can’t seem to find the rule about that.
February 4th, 2011 at 4:04 pm
Ryan Gregg writes:
Lucille,
Sand and loose soil are loose impediments on the green only. See definition of loose impediments. Rule 13-2 states that a player may not remove or press down sand, loose soil…. Violation for this action is a two-stroke penalty in stroke play or loss of hole in match play.
February 4th, 2011 at 4:25 pm
Marta writes:
If my ball is lying inside a bunker, on top of a dead squirrel, can I remove the squirrel or do I have to play the ball as it lies?
Also, if my ball is on the putting green, and there is a live fly on my putting line, is it a loose impediment and therefore I can remove it or do I have to play the ball with the fly there?
Thank you.
February 6th, 2011 at 2:14 pm
Ryan Gregg writes:
Marta,
The dead squirrel is a loose impediment by definition and Rule 13-4 states that a loose impediment may not be touched when your ball lies in a hazard, including bunkers. A fly is a loose impediment by definition and may be moved when your ball lies on the putting green. See Rule 16-1 and definition of loose impediments.
February 7th, 2011 at 9:54 am
Marta writes:
Thank you, Ryan.
What if the squirrel is alive?
February 7th, 2011 at 10:13 am
Ryan Gregg writes:
Marta,
If the squirrel is alive, then it is an animate outside agency and Rule 19-1 applies. The ball must be dropped as near as possible to the spot directly under the place where the ball came to rest in or on the outside agency, but not nearer the hole.
February 7th, 2011 at 12:53 pm
Rick writes:
A ball lies on wooden steps leading up to a teeing area. In determining the half circle for dropping under Rule 24 how should the player measure with regards to the slope of the side of the tee box? For example, if the ball is on the top step and it is to the player’s advantage to drop down towards the bottom of the steps is the measurement done parallel to the level ground so that the club is “hanging” in space, or is the measurement done along the ground. The difference may only be a few inches, but which is correct?
February 7th, 2011 at 1:17 pm
Ryan Gregg writes:
Rick,
The measuring would be along the ground. See analogous decision 28/12.
February 7th, 2011 at 2:27 pm
Gary writes:
Hi guys
I have a question for you. Player A is on the green and Player B is off the green. Before Player B makes a stroke, he requests that Player A mark his ball but Player A refuses nor does he play first. Player B makes his stroke and hits Player A’s ball. What is the ruling in Stroke Play and Match Play?
February 8th, 2011 at 12:02 pm
Ryan Gregg writes:
Gary,
Player A is disqualified in stroke play for refusing to comply with a Rule affecting the rights of another competitor (Rule 3-4). It is a loss of hole penalty in match play (Decision 2/3).
February 8th, 2011 at 3:28 pm
Rick writes:
In four-ball competition Player B of team A-B discovers he has an extra club just before he tees off on the second hole. However, his partner has already started the hole. Is team A-B penalized 2 strokes each or 4 strokes each?
February 10th, 2011 at 10:20 am
Ryan Gregg writes:
Rick,
The team would add two penalty strokes to the first and second holes. Four strokes total. If you look at the definition of Partner it says that where the context so admits, the word “player” includes his partner. The violation of 4-4 by either player applies to his partner (Rule 30-3d & 31-6). The side has considered starting play of the next hole as soon as the player has played a stroke on that hole.
February 10th, 2011 at 2:29 pm
Rick writes:
Hi again,
Please, a bit of further clarification: even though the player with the extra club had not teed off on the second hole, both he and his partner add two strokes to each of their scores on hole one and hole two. Correct?
February 11th, 2011 at 9:25 am
Ryan Gregg writes:
Rick,
Yes, That is correct. Since the side had started play of the second hole the penalty applies to both.
February 11th, 2011 at 9:48 am
Ed writes:
Player A had an over-hill, over-dale chip shot to play to the hole. His partner (or another player) had marked his ball somewhat on the line that A had to chip. A asked the player who had marked his ball to remark with a tee so that he could see it better and help him with his chip. Under Rule 22 is such a request a penalty? If the other player indeed did mark his ball with a tee to help A is there a penalty? and who gets the penalty? And would the penalties be different in match vs. stroke play?
February 12th, 2011 at 4:21 pm
Ryan Gregg writes:
Ed,
Rule 8-2 states that “Any mark placed by the player (includes partner) or with the players knowledge to indicate the line must be removed before the stroke is made”. If the player plays a stroke with the tee placed in position it is a loss of hole in match play and two strokes in stroke play to the player making the stroke.
February 14th, 2011 at 10:57 am
Carol Morgan writes:
Myself and 3 others recently had a day out paying green fees to play another course. One of the four returned an exceptional card (stableford points)- does this card need to be returned to his Home Club for handicap adjustment?
February 17th, 2011 at 4:03 am
Wayne Jones writes:
Is there ever any circumstances in golf where you could get a drop nearer to the hole?
February 17th, 2011 at 7:46 am
Jim Cowan writes:
Carol, thank you for your comment. It depends on where the round of golf was played. If it was played locally, the score certainly must be posted to your handicap record because, for the most part, we post scores year-round here in No Cal (you must post home and away scores). If the round was played up north in Washington or Oregon, the score cannot be posted because those states do not allow posting during most of the winter. As to a scorecard itself, a club can request but not require the return of scorecards before posting takes place. The main point is to get the score posted. Thanks again – Jim Cowan, Director, Course Rating and Handicapping
February 17th, 2011 at 11:13 am
Bill Rider writes:
A player marks the ball on the green and passes the ball to the caddie. Later, the caddie places the ball at the marker and positions and aligns it fot the player. The caddie then removes the amrker and hands it to the player followed by the player putting the ball.
What procedure would be allowed to prevent this from being a violation of Rule 20-3??
February 17th, 2011 at 11:15 am
Carol Morgan writes:
Jim,
Thanks for your reply, we are based in South Wales, UK and played a course local to us. Isn’t it unfair to return one players good card when 3 others played the same round….albeit badly!!!
February 17th, 2011 at 2:07 pm
Ryan Gregg writes:
Wayne,
The only times that I can think that a player would be allowed to drop closer to the hole would be when he is proceeding under stroke and distance and dropping in a drop zone that may be closer to the hole than where the ball lay.
February 17th, 2011 at 4:04 pm
Ryan Gregg writes:
Bill,
There are only three people that can replace the ball. The player, partner or person that moved it. In your example, the caddie may not replace it without the player being penalized one stroke under Rule 20-3a. Also see Decision 20-4/2.
February 17th, 2011 at 4:11 pm
Joan Sarringhaus writes:
In the phrase “or it’s equivilent” mean? Also what does the word “could” mean?
An amateur golfer must not play golf for prize money or its equivalent in a match, competition or exhibition if they do they could lose their amateur status.
February 18th, 2011 at 9:19 am
Carol Morgan writes:
A stake which defines the margin of a water hazard has been removed. A player’s ball comes to rest in the hole in which the stake had previously been placed. What is the ruling?
Is it also the same ruling of it was a white stake defining ‘out of bounds’?
February 18th, 2011 at 9:21 am
Joan Sarringhaus writes:
An amateur golfer must not play golf for prize money or its equivalent in a match, competition or exhibit.
Joan,
“or its equivalent” means something like a gift certificate or card that could be spent in anywhere such as an American Express Gift Card. Gift certificates that can be spent in one store such as the pro shop or Macy’s would be ok.
The hole that is left when a water hazard stake is removed is a hole made by a groundskeeper and is therefore ground under repair (Decision 25/18). But, unless there is a line marking the boundary of the hazard and the stake hole is completely outside that line, the player does not get relief as there is no relief for a ball which is ground under repair in a water hazard.
In the case of the OB stake, since Out of Bounds is defined by the inside edge of the stake at ground level, the hole is out of bounds and there is no relief from a hole which is out of bounds.
February 18th, 2011 at 2:02 pm
dave writes:
Please help me with Dec. 34-1b/5. The question deals with a committee error discovered before the competition closed. Would A have been retroactively declared the winner if the addition error by the committee had been discovered after the competition closed? To me this committee error seems to be the same as in 34-1b/6 that was correctable even after the competition was closed.
February 19th, 2011 at 5:25 pm
Ryan Gregg writes:
Dave,
The Committee may not rescind the penalty of disqualification after the competition has closed. The Committee would not be permitted to rescind the penalty in 34-1b/5 after the competition had closed. In Decision 34-1b/6, there is no time limit for correcting such an error. Rule 34-1b is not applicable since it deals with penalties and not Committee errors.
February 21st, 2011 at 9:58 am
dave writes:
I’m sure your reading of the Rules is correct; however, not correcting an addition error which is the committee’s responsibility (33-5) sure seems the same as not posting a player’s score which was correctable in 34-1b/6. If the situation of 34-1b/5 occurred at an NCGA qualifying event and the scoring official told a player he was dq’d wouldn’t that error be fixed?
February 21st, 2011 at 1:58 pm
Ryan Gregg writes:
Dave,
If the Committee incorrectly disqualified a player during a competition, for any reason. Once the competition had closed, they would not be able to rescind the penalty. Even in an NCGA qualifying event.
If there was an addition error, the Committee could make the change after the competition had closed. See Decision 33-5/2. In Decision 34-1b/5 it is a penalty that may not be corrected after the competition has closed. It has nothing to do with an addition error.
February 21st, 2011 at 2:48 pm
John Baranowski writes:
If your ball comes to rest on a sprinkler head protruding onto the green, is the ball deemed to be on the green?
February 21st, 2011 at 8:39 pm
Ryan Gregg writes:
John,
If your ball is on the side of the sprinkler head that is on a portion of the green, then yes, it is considered on the green and Rule 24-2b (iii) applies.
February 22nd, 2011 at 9:02 am
Karen writes:
In the two questions/answers with Dave regarding Dec. 34-1b/5, I’ve gotten confused as it says that the hole by hole scores were correct and the total was wrong and the committee was in error so it sure seems like an adding error, but you say “It has nothing to do with an addition error.” So, I guess, I still don’t understand why such an error isn’t correctable after the competition is closed like the committee error of the following decision.
February 23rd, 2011 at 10:19 am
Ryan Gregg writes:
Karen,
The difference is that the Committee imposed a penalty of disqualification to the player in Dec. 34-1b/5. Once the competition has closed they may not rescind the penalty of disqualification. Even though, the Committee wrongly disqualified the player, it may not be corrected after the competition closes. If they did not disqualify the player and later discover that there was a mathematical error, they would be justified in correcting it after the competition had closed.
February 23rd, 2011 at 10:40 am
Robert Molyneaux writes:
My tee shot landed off of the fairway on a gravely hill sloping towards the green. The ball came to rest against a stick about 2″ in diameter. The stick is a movable obstruction but I cannot move it without the ball rolling down the hill. So I gently placed two small pebbles to stabalize the ball and removed the stick without moving the ball. Kosher?
Thanks,
Bob
February 26th, 2011 at 4:09 pm
Ryan Gregg writes:
Robert,
I believe the stick was a loose impediment and not a movable obstruction. In either case, when you placed the pebbles next to the ball you were penalized two strokes in stroke play or loss of hole in match play for exerting influence on your ball under Rule 1-2.
February 28th, 2011 at 10:01 am
Rick writes:
A player hits his ball into one of those tall, skinny juniper trees that are sometimes used as 150 yard markers. Everyone in the group is virtually certain that the ball is indeed in the tree. If the tree is staked does the player get Rule 24 relief? And what if, similarly, a ball were hit into a mature tree with overhanging branches that was staked but the local rules said the player only gets relief from the stake.
March 1st, 2011 at 2:40 pm
Carol Morgan writes:
Is a banana skin or an apple core in a bunker classed as a loose impediment?
March 2nd, 2011 at 1:44 am
Ryan Gregg writes:
Rick,
If the Committee has deemed the 150 yard tree as an immovable obstruction then the player would be entitled to relief, without penalty as prescribed in Rule 24-3. If a ball is lost in a staked tree and the Committee has not adopted the Local Rule for protection of young trees the ball is lost and Rule 27-1 applies.
March 2nd, 2011 at 9:53 am
Ryan Gregg writes:
Carol,
Banana skins and apple cores are loose impediments. See Decisions 23/3 and 23/4 and definition of loose impediments.
March 2nd, 2011 at 9:54 am
Rick writes:
A player hits a ball into a large area of casual water (virtually certain). When he gets to the area he finds a ball and drops it under 25-1b. When he finally holes out, he discovers that the ball he had dropped was not his which means he should have used 25-1c. If the dropping area turned out to be the same for both the original ball and the stray ball, is there a penalty?
March 6th, 2011 at 11:21 am
Ryan Gregg writes:
Rick,
The player does get lucky. Since Rule 25-1c allows substitution and he dropped in a place permitted for that Rule.
March 7th, 2011 at 12:18 pm
Dave writes:
I hit a ball in to a bunker and surprisingly found the ball in a fluffy lie caused by a burrowing animal, probably a squirrel, that had recently dug a hole in the side wall of the bunker. Both the cast and the runway were solid sand. Do I still get Rule 25 relief?
March 9th, 2011 at 4:04 pm
Ryan Gregg writes:
Dave,
If the remains are identifiable as remains from a burrowing animal, then you would be entitled to relief as prescribed in Rule 25-1b (ii). Also see Decision 25/23.
March 9th, 2011 at 5:33 pm
Scott writes:
In a stroke play event, is there a penalty if a fellow-competitor picks up another person’s ball through the green? Decision 20-1/2 (or /4, don’t have the Decisions book on me) says no penalty if it happens on the green and must be replaced, but I couldn’t find if the same happens through the green.
March 9th, 2011 at 10:20 pm
Ryan Gregg writes:
Scott,
Rule 18-4 applies. There is no penalty to the player or fellow-competitor and the ball must be replaced.
March 10th, 2011 at 10:58 am
Dave writes:
In our last round someone tending the flag accidentally stopped a putt with his foot. He was not paying close attention and the ball stroke his foot and stopped close to the hole. What is the ruling?
March 10th, 2011 at 11:09 am
Ryan Gregg writes:
Dave,
If the player making the stroke had authorized the attendance, the player would be penalized two strokes in stroke play and loss of hole in match play under Rule 17-3. If the player did not authorize the attendance, Rule 17-2 applies and the person attending the flagstick would be penalized.
March 10th, 2011 at 11:18 am
Mark Mance writes:
has it always been legal to have someone tend the flagstick even if you are not on the green. Phil Mickelson had his caddy do this for his final shot at torrey pines this year. i thought this had always been legal but someone else said that the rule changed a few years ago
please advise
thank you
March 14th, 2011 at 9:34 am
Ryan Gregg writes:
Mark,
From 1899, the rule for stroke play was:
When a competitor’s ball is within 20 yards of the hole, the competitor shall not play until the flag has been removed, under penalty of one stroke.
I suppose that didn’t mean that the person who removed it couldn’t stand by the hole but you could say it meant it couldn’t be attended.
In 1908 the rule was modified to mention that the ball can not strike the flag or the person standing by the hole with a two-stroke penalty for doing so. So, from then on it was definitely allowed.
March 14th, 2011 at 7:41 pm
Bob Clarkson writes:
What makes a golf course a “championship” course vs a non-championship course. Are there objective criteria or is it all marketing?
March 15th, 2011 at 9:59 am
Ryan Gregg writes:
Bob,
“Championship” courses have no official definitions, but usually a course will be referred to as such when it has multiple sets of tee boxes to choose from such as Whites, Blues, Blacks and even further…Championship Tees. Basically when a course calls itself a championship course, it is saying that it is a tough test of golf, with serious holes. For instance, the par 3s are in the 180 yd. range and longer. You won’t generally find too many 125 yd. par threes in other words. Same goes for the par 4s…they will generally be quite long. In essence, what they are saying is that this course has or could host a championship of some kind.
March 16th, 2011 at 9:53 am
Ron Hill writes:
In stroke play, may a player purposely miss a putt so that his next putt is beyond and on the same line as his partner, therefore showing him the line and speed?
March 17th, 2011 at 3:17 pm
Matt writes:
In match play, if a putt is conceded is it allowable to putt anyway if it might benefit your partner.
March 17th, 2011 at 4:14 pm
Ryan Gregg writes:
Ron,
Decision 30-3f/6 specifically prohibits a player from playing away from the hole to assist his partner.
In stroke play, the player should incur a penalty of two strokes and, under Rule 31-8, the partner should incur the same penalty.
March 18th, 2011 at 8:01 am
Ryan Gregg writes:
Matt,
Decision 2-4/6 states if the act would be of assistance to his partner in in a four ball or best ball match the partner is disqualified for the hole.
March 18th, 2011 at 8:06 am
Bob G writes:
Ryan,
This situation seems to come up in many tournaments.
Player A hits a tee ball that may be lost or may be OB. Player A declares: “I better hit another one, just in case. ”
Player B says: “Make sure you declare it”.
Player A re-tees and says: “this ball has two blue dots” and hits it.
1) Did Player B give advice?
2) Did Player A just hit his third shot because he failed to say: “Provisional Ball”?
How strict do we need to be when the intention is clear?
March 22nd, 2011 at 12:00 pm
Ryan Gregg writes:
Bob,
1. No, Player did not give advice. See definition of advice.
2. Yes. The word provisional should be used by the player. However, if the opponent or fellow-competitor asks if it is a provisional and the player says yes. I would consider that a proper announcement of a provisional ball.
March 22nd, 2011 at 3:31 pm
Bob G writes:
Practice during multi-day stroke play event.
One rule says that a player may practice putting after the hole has been completed. Another rule states that a player shall not practice on the course prior to competition.
During a multiple-day stroke play tournament is putting practice allowed or not?
Some players have told me that practice putting is allowed ONLY on the last day of the event.
March 22nd, 2011 at 3:52 pm
Ryan Gregg writes:
Bob,
Rule 7-1(Prior to the round)
Stroke Play
Before a round or play-off on any day of a stroke-play competition, a competitor must not practice on the competition course or test the surface of any putting green on the course by rolling a ball or roughening or scraping the surface.
When two or more rounds of a stroke-play competition are to be played over consecutive days, a competitor must not practice between those rounds on any competition course remaining to be played, or test the surface of any putting green on such course by rolling a ball or roughening or scraping the surface.
Exception:
Practice putting or chipping on or near the first teeing ground before starting a round or play-off is permitted.
Rule 7-2 (During the round) allows a player to practice putt or chip on or near the putting green of the last hole played and also practice putt and chip on or near the next teeing ground.
March 22nd, 2011 at 4:23 pm
Larry Nathan writes:
I was watching the LPGA tournament on March 27th,and on a par 3 hole N.Y.Choi hit her tee shot into a lateral hazard. The telecast showed her choosing to retee. The announcers commented that she could not use the drop zone because the d.z. was closer to the hole than where her tee shot crossed the hazzard. Nearly everyone I have played with, myself included, has thought that if a drop zone exists, it always is an option. Apparently not! We have a hole on my home course where the drop zone is on the most forward tee box, well up the lateral hazard. From the men’s tees it is quite possible to enter the hazard well before the drop zone. Please clarify. Thanks.
March 27th, 2011 at 5:10 pm
Ryan Gregg writes:
Laryy,
The Committee may provide dropping zones as an additional option for players when taking relief. It is normal practice to provide the dropping zone in an area where the player will not gain a significant advantage when using the dropping zone. I am sure the Committee had outlined in the Local Rules that the ball had to cross the hazard at a specific spot or closer to the hole than where Ms. Choi’s ball did. In cases where more than one drop zone is being used the Committee will establish marks on the course to direct the player to which drop zone they should use or even state that they may use the drop zone that is not closer to the hole.
March 27th, 2011 at 7:09 pm
Michael writes:
I was recently trying to hit a punch shot between some trees back into the fairway from the woods. I missed my opening and hit a large tree trunk straight on and the ball came bouncing back toward me.
I watched for about 5 seconds and came to the realization that my ball was going to hit my bag which was right next to me (it eventually did and I took a penalty). Is there anything in the rules that prevents me from moving my bag out of the way while my ball is in motion if I see its about to get hit? I got it in my head at some point that its illegal, but after this happened I went to look it up and was unable to find a rule.
March 28th, 2011 at 10:19 am
Chris Redfield writes:
Hello:
I coach high school golf and this question came up during one of our matches.
A ball on the putting green lies directly on the intended line of another player. The player requests the ball and mark to be moved. Normally the procedure would be to mark the ball and then use the putter head to move the mark off the intended line. The actual procedure used by the player was to place the toe of the putter next to the ball and then place a mark at the heel of the putter (the ball was then lifted). When is was his turn to putt, the player placed the putter head back down and moved the mark back to the original position of the ball at the toe of the putter. He then replaced the ball at its original position.
Is this procedure OK, or is this a penalty? I consulted the Decisions (2004-05) and could not find a definitive answer.
This situation did not affect the outcome of our match, but it would be nice to know the correct ruling.
Thanks.
March 28th, 2011 at 8:40 pm
Ryan Gregg writes:
Michael,
Rule 24-1 states that a player may remove equipment when a ball is in motion, without penalty.
March 29th, 2011 at 9:06 am
Ryan Gregg writes:
Chris,
The procedure to “span” the ball under the Note to 20-1 is just a recommendation. Whatever procedure a player uses to move the ball or ball marker out of the way of another player must ensure that they get the ball back to it’s original position. I would recommend that the player should have used the same sequence to put the back (ball, putter, marker —marker, putter, ball). If the Committee is satisfied the player got the ball back in its original location there would be no penalty. If the Committee is not satisfied that the player returned the ball to its original location, the player would be penalized two strokes in stroke play or loss of hole in match play for playing from a wrong place.
March 29th, 2011 at 9:16 am
Bob G writes:
What is the ruling on the use of cell phones that have a golf GPS application during a tournament?
April 1st, 2011 at 7:21 am
Ryan Gregg writes:
NCGA’S CLARIFICATION ON SMART PHONE APPLICATIONS
The USGA and R&A has issued a joint statement regarding the use of electronic devices. Decision 14-3/0.5 states that any device used for distance measuring may not contain any other functions that are prohibited (e.g., gradient, wind speed, temperature). The joint statement states that multi-functional devices such as mobile phones may not be used as a distance measuring device if the device contains any prohibited features.
Many phones have built-in applications that are difficult, if not impossible to delete. For example, the iPhone 3GS ships with a compass application pre-installed. A compass is one of the devices that may not be used on a golf course (Decision 14-3/4). It is not possible to remove the compass application from the iPhone 3GS. Therefore, it is prohibited to use it as an Electronic Distance Measuring Device under the Rules of Golf. The penalty for using a prohibited device is disqualification.
The iPhone 3G does not have the Compass application or any other prohibited applications pre-installed. As long as the user has not installed a prohibited application, the iPhone 3G may be used as an Electronic Distance Measuring Device.
Before using any electronic distance measuring device during a competition, the player should ensure that it conforms to the Rules. Any doubt of conformity will be resolved against the player.
April 1st, 2011 at 8:09 am
Roger Hoff writes:
For years are Club has stated that the Maximum playing Handicap is 33 for all events on our course. We have several older players you have seen their Handicap increase to 33+ .
Is their a NCGA Max handicap for players, playing in local tournaments.
April 2nd, 2011 at 5:52 am
Pat Seefeldt writes:
I just made a putter that has the shaft connecting to the head at a 90 degree angle and there are no additional bends to the shaft. I use the putter “side saddle” facing the hole. Is this putter illegal?
April 4th, 2011 at 7:19 am
Jim Cowan writes:
Roger Hoff – thank you for your comment. The maximum official Handicap Index for men is 36.4, for women is 40.4. Of course, these Handicap Index will adjust to higher Course Handicaps on tees with Slope Ratings above 113. It is up to your club entirely to decide what max Course Handicap you will allow for your own events. Many clubs allow the USGA maximum values, some allow higher “Local” handicaps. Your’s is one of the first I have heard that caps it at a lower figure. Thanks again – Jim Cowan, Director of Course Rating and Handicapping
April 4th, 2011 at 8:41 am
Ryan Gregg writes:
Pat,
It is difficult to make a ruling on a club without seeing it in person. I recommend contacting the USGA with regards to any equipment questions, as they are the governing body of equipment standards. Please send them a picture of the putter in question. They can be reached at rules@usga.org
April 4th, 2011 at 9:42 am
Dave writes:
The tee markers at our course are log shaped and about a foot long. They are held in the ground by a spike. The markers are intended to be horizontal with the line of play, that is pointing down the fairway. If such a marker had twisted sideways such that is was pointing towards the other marker and a player repointed it in the usual direction (without lifting it out of the ground) before hitting his tee shot is there a penalty under Rule 1, specifically Dec. 11-2/2(b) which mentions “aimed in the wrong direction?”
April 5th, 2011 at 6:07 pm
Ryan Gregg writes:
Dave,
Per Decision 11-2/2, there would be no penalty if the player were to move the tee marker as you described. However, it is best to get the Committee involved in correcting any tee marker that has been misplaced.
April 6th, 2011 at 7:49 am
Dave writes:
During the end of a close match yesterday my opponents approach shot struck a temporary plastic mesh fence between a lake and the green and bounced back into the water hazard (yellow stakes). The fence appeared to be in place to protect the green from erosion during an earlier winter storm event. Not knowing the rule, he rehit from the fairway and parred the hole. He played a second ball from in front of the hazard with a one stroke penalty and bogeyed the hole. We asked in the clubhouse if there was a local rule regarding the temporary fence and they did not know. What is the rule? Par or bogey?
April 6th, 2011 at 9:12 am
Ryan Gregg writes:
Dave,
The fence was an outside agency and the ball should have been played as it lay. Since it was not playable in the water hazard he should have taken relief from the water hazard as prescribed in Rule 26. It sounds like he did take relief from the hazard as prescribed and that is the ball that would count. If the hazard was yellow, he was required to drop behind the hazard (not in front). If he played the ball from in front, as described, he would be playing from a wrong place and would lose the hole (Rule 20-7).
April 6th, 2011 at 1:51 pm
Carol Morgan writes:
Can you please clarify a discussion between our members. Can you use the back of any golf club, not just the putter, to strike your ball? Also if this is allowed, what year did the ruling change?
April 17th, 2011 at 11:12 am
Rick McCarter writes:
One of our foursome hit his drive in the direction of a water hazard which laterally extended across the front of the teeing area. High reeds in the water prevented anyone from seeing the ball land on the other side of the hazard. The player declared a provisional to avoid returning to the tee box if it did go in the hazard. The ball was clear of the hazard and playable. A member of the foursome stated that the provisional was the ball in play and that he was now laying three at the spot of the provisional stating that it was an inappropriate use of a provisional. For speed of play I thought that a provisional is appropriate anytime it appears you may have to return to the original spot to replay a shot. What is the correct ruling??EGOB
April 17th, 2011 at 1:18 pm
Ryan Gregg writes:
Carol,
Yes, you may use the back of a club to strike the ball. Rule 14 states that a player must strike the ball with the head of the club. I am not sure when the rule changed.
April 18th, 2011 at 7:45 am
Ryan Gregg writes:
Rick,
A provisional ball may be played if the ball may be lost outside a water hazard or out of bounds (see definition of provisional ball). Since the player was playing a provisional ball for a ball lost in a water hazard it was actually the ball in play under stroke and distance.
April 18th, 2011 at 7:49 am
Derrick writes:
Can a flag stick be tended when putting or chipping from the fringe (or therefore any other position on the course, with the exception of maybe a hazard)? Thanks.
April 18th, 2011 at 9:31 am
Ryan Gregg writes:
Derrick,
Rule 17-1 states that “before making a stroke from anywhere on the course, the player may have the flagstick attended, removed or held up to indicate the position of the hole.”
April 18th, 2011 at 10:20 am
Rick Gelinas writes:
At our last tournament, a golfer hit his tee shot and the group saw it roll just off the fairway into the second cut. Another group was seen in the area before they arrived where the ball should have been. The tee shot was no where to be found. But another ball with the same identifying marks (but different brand) was found instead. Does this need to be played as a lost ball eventhough it was very likely the other group played the ball by mistake?
April 18th, 2011 at 10:45 am
Ryan Gregg writes:
Rick,
If the player has knowledge or is virtually certain that the ball had been played by another player, Rule 18-1 applies. He should place a ball on the spot from which his ball was played. If the lie was altered Rule 20-3b applies or if the spot is not determinable Rule 20-3c applies. Also see Decision 27/6
April 18th, 2011 at 11:07 am
Lloyd Finch writes:
ball is in the bunker…before hitting the bunker shot the player reaches with a club (sand wedge) and picks up a rake laying in the bunker. Has the player grounded his club in the bunker? If so what’s the penalty?
April 19th, 2011 at 4:34 pm
Ryan Gregg writes:
Lloyd,
Exception #1 to Rule 13-4 states “Provided nothing is done that constitutes testing the condition of the hazard or improves the lie of the ball, there is no penalty if the player (a) touches the ground or loose impediments in any hazard or water in a water hazard as a result of or to prevent falling, in removing an obstruction….. No penalty.
April 20th, 2011 at 7:33 am
Dave writes:
If both team members of a four-ball game are in the same bunker and the player nearer the hole plays first and does not get his ball out of the bunker can he rake where he had just played from even if that spot is on the line of play of his partner? One of the Rule 13 decisions says if a player plays out of the bunker he can rake “without restriction.” That phrase is not used in the decision that deals with the ball still in the bunker. The player may rake if the original spot was not on his line of next play, but, again, what about his partner?
April 20th, 2011 at 8:58 am
Ryan Gregg writes:
Dave,
The player may restore the bunker, without penalty, provided nothing is done to breach Rule 13-2 with respect to his next stroke(exception #2 under Rule 13-4). The raking of the bunker is restoring the lie that his partner had when his ball came to rest in the bunker. No penalty to either player. Also see Decision 13-4/19.
April 20th, 2011 at 9:45 am
Mike Converse writes:
You are taking practice swings for a chip shot around the green. You accidently during a practice swing hit the ball and it moves 1 foot. You had no intent on hitting the ball nor did you address the ball. Is there a penalty?
April 22nd, 2011 at 10:15 am
Wayne Jones writes:
We have someone in our men’s club that insists that you are not allowed to ask another player in your group if they want your ball marked because that is giving them information on the line of the putt.He states that you have to wait until the player playing the shot asks to have the ball mark.Is this correct?
April 24th, 2011 at 7:38 am
Ryan Gregg writes:
Mike,
Yes, There is a penalty of one stroke under Rule 18-2a for causing your ball to move. The ball must be replaced.
April 25th, 2011 at 8:46 am
Ryan Gregg writes:
Wayne,
The Note to Rule 20-1 states that if a ball marker interferes with play, stance, or stroke of another player, it should be plaved one or more club-lengths to one side. Wether the player does it on his own or makes a request, there is no penalty. He would not be considered giving advice under Rule 8-1.
April 25th, 2011 at 8:51 am
Carol Morgan writes:
Can you get free relief if you want to putt from 10ft off the green and a sprinkler head off just off the green is in your line?
April 25th, 2011 at 9:19 am
Ryan Gregg writes:
Carol,
No. You are not entitled to relief on your line of play from an immovable obstruction (Rule 24-2). However, there is a Local Rule in Appendix I in the Rules of Golf that a Committee may adopt to allow players relief for intervention on the line of play for immovable obstructins near putting greens.
Immovable Obstructions Close to Putting Green
Rule 24-2 provides relief, without penalty, from interference by an immovable obstruction, but also provides that, except on the putting green, intervention on the line of play is not, of itself, interference under this Rule.
However, on some courses, the aprons of the putting greens are so closely mown that players may wish to putt from just off the green. In such conditions, immovable obstructions on the apron may interfere with the proper playing of the game and the introduction of the following Local Rule providing additional relief, without penalty, from intervention by an immovable obstruction would be warranted:
“Relief from interference by an immovable obstruction may be taken under Rule 24-2. In addition, if a ball lies off the putting green but not in a hazard and an immovable obstruction on or within two club-lengths of the putting green and within two club-lengths of the ball intervenes on the line of play between the ball and the hole, the player may take relief as follows:
The ball must be lifted and dropped at the nearest point to where the ball lay that (a) is not nearer the hole, (b) avoids intervention and (c) is not in a hazard or on a putting green. The ball may be cleaned when lifted.
Relief under this Local Rule is also available if the player’s ball lies on the putting green and an immovable obstruction within two club-lengths of the putting green intervenes on his line of putt. The player may take relief as follows:
The ball must be lifted and placed at the nearest point to where the ball lay that (a) is not nearer the hole, (b) avoids intervention and (c) is not in a hazard. The ball may be cleaned when lifted.
Without the Local Rule, the player is required to play the ball as it lies.
April 25th, 2011 at 11:57 am
james atchison writes:
This may be an easy one, but it caused some confusion at our local club. A player, while on the green, addresses an unmarked ball. Before attempting to hole the putt, the player grounds the putter behind the ball and the ball rolls out of place. Is there a penalty and/or what would be possible options under the rules? I believe since the player was deemed to have caused the ball to move, while the ball is in play, the player needs to replace the ball to its original position, incurring a one stroke penalty, and proceed. Thanks and your response will be greatly appreciated. Jim
April 26th, 2011 at 10:56 am
Ryan Gregg writes:
James,
Rule 18-2b states that if a player causes the ball to move, after address, it must be replaced with a one-stroke penalty. If the player fails to replace the ball it is a two stroke penalty. See the penalty statement under Rule 18.
April 26th, 2011 at 3:44 pm
Bob writes:
The rules of golf are generally confusing to me, at least the ones beyond water hazards and out of bounds, but a recent rules article “Stump…” in the Spring issue of the NCGA magazine has moved the rules from simply confusing to the mysterious and occult. Specifically, why was Player B disqualified In the “Rights of the Competitor” question/answer when it was Player A who was refusing to mark his ball. Or, hopefully, did the letters just get turned around and it’s just a typo?
April 26th, 2011 at 3:57 pm
Ryan Gregg writes:
Bob,
Sorry for the confusion. It was a typo. Player A would be disqualified under Rule 3-4. Not Player B.
April 26th, 2011 at 4:12 pm
Dave writes:
Hi,
I know there is no penalty for playing out of turn in stroke play, but what would happen at an NCGA tourney if, in a four-ball event, the two teams decided for one team to tee off first on the front nine and the other on the back nine? Or in single play, the players agree to play ready golf at each tee? Is there a breach of Rule 1-3 in either case?
April 29th, 2011 at 7:55 am
Ryan Gregg writes:
Dave,
In either case there would be no penalty. In stroke play, players may play out of turn as long as they are not doing so to give anyone an advantage. See Rule 10-2c.
April 29th, 2011 at 8:45 am
ron writes:
Can lead tape be legally used on golf clubs to adjust the swing weight?
April 29th, 2011 at 7:54 pm
Karen writes:
At a recent high school tourney at which I was helping, the following situation occurred. A player hit his tee shot towards OB, then played a provisional. When he went to find his tee shots, he couldn’t find either one so, confused, he just dropped another ball in the vicinity of the general area where his first two shots had ended up and played out the hole. Before he teed off on the next hole, a coach/official who had been called told him he needed to go back to the tee and correctly put a ball in play. I know he took five more shots after dropping the ball when he couldn’t find his first two tee shots, but, I think, he was told that he was hitting seven off the tee when he went back. Is that correct? What about the shots he took after he dropped the ball? Please help me count.
April 30th, 2011 at 8:16 pm
John Hubbard writes:
Stump the Rules Wizard – Volume 31, Number 2 Spring 2011–Rights as a Competitor.
So I am just off the green and you are on the green at a spot that is in my direct line to the flag. I ask you to mark your ball and you say NO. I chip onto the green and hit your ball and I a am disqualified.Whow!!! Where can I read more about this? Maybe my problem is that I play with great guys (and gals) who willing mark their balls anytime someone asks – if not before.
Thanks for you help.
John Hubbard, The Villages, San Jose,CA
May 1st, 2011 at 5:53 pm
Ryan Gregg writes:
Ron,
Lead tape may be applied to a club prior to a stipulated round. See Decision 4-1/4.
May 2nd, 2011 at 8:15 am
Ryan Gregg writes:
John,
Sorry for the confusion. It was a typo. Player A would be disqualified under Rule 3-4. Not Player B.
May 2nd, 2011 at 8:17 am
Ray writes:
What is the proper way to continue play when a player has hit the ball twice on a single swing? Should the ball be placed where the last shot was taken, or played where it now lies?
May 4th, 2011 at 3:56 pm
Carol Morgan writes:
I know that if an ‘air shot’ is taken on the 4th tee because the player used a tee that was too high for him, he cannot then re-tee with a smaller tee as he would be playing the ball from a wrong place and would incur a penalty stroke.
Does this penalty apply to the 1st tee as well…….or is the ball not deemed to be in play yet?
May 5th, 2011 at 2:42 am
Ryan Gregg writes:
Ray,
Rule 14-4 states that the stroke counts and the player must add a penalty stroke. The ball is played from where it came to rest.
May 5th, 2011 at 8:08 am
Ryan Gregg writes:
Carol,
Once a stroke is made at the ball it is in play. See definition of ball in play. If a player re-tees the ball he is considered to be playing under stroke and distance and incurs a penalty stroke. See Decision 18-2a/1.
May 5th, 2011 at 8:13 am
Jim McDermott writes:
As I reached the top of my backswing a fairly large twig that had been blown off a nearby oak tree struck my ball causing it to move over an inch. This twig was large enough that if it had hit me on the head it would of hurt. I was 20 yards away from the base of the tree and not even remotely close to hitting it in my back swing.
What’s the rule?
May 6th, 2011 at 11:22 am
Ryan Gregg writes:
Jim,
If your ball moves after being addressed, you are deemed to have moved it and you would incur a one stroke penalty. If you continue the stroke the ball does not need to be replaced. If the stroke is stopped, the ball must be replaced. See Rule 18-2b.
May 6th, 2011 at 1:40 pm
Bill writes:
A players ball lies in the rough. The player, before addressing the ball, is tapping down the grass behind the golf ball with his club. The golf ball oscillates back & forth and the player states the ball merely osccilates back to its original position and there is no penalty. The player is clearly improving his lie……what’s the ruling here???
May 6th, 2011 at 5:45 pm
Lee Baker writes:
It is my understanding that a ball can be declared unplayable at any point on the golf course and that the player may take a one stroke penalty and either drop his ball within 2 club lengths or retreat on the line formed by the hole and his ball, dropping the ball on that line or return to the point at which he hit his original shot. The confusion comes when the unplayable ball lies in a bunker. I have been told by rules officials that the unplayable ball must be dropped in the bunker and may not be dropped on the line formed by the ball and the hole. I have not been able to confirm this. Can you provide a reference for this ruling?
May 6th, 2011 at 6:00 pm
Jim writes:
Ball lands on right side of sprinkler well in fairway. What is the proper way to determine where to drop the ball.
May 6th, 2011 at 8:07 pm
Joe writes:
On a putting green in match play, Player believes his partner has halved a hole, so he places his ball where he marked it, leaves ball mark on green behind his ball and putts. Is there a penalty for leave mark on green surface?
May 6th, 2011 at 10:22 pm
Ryan Gregg writes:
Bill,
It does sound like the ball has not moved by definition of moved in the Rules of Golf. However, the player is improving his lie and is in violation of Rule 13-2 and should be penalized two strokes in stroke play and loss of hole in match play.
May 7th, 2011 at 9:51 am
Ryan Gregg writes:
Lee,
See Rule 28. A player has three options when he has declared his ball unplayable:
a. Play a ball as nearly as possible at the spot from which the original ball was last played (see Rule 20-5); or
b. Drop a ball behind the point where the ball lay, keeping that point directly between the hole and the spot on which the ball is dropped, with no limit to how far behind that point the ball may be dropped; or
c. Drop a ball within two club-lengths of the spot where the ball lay, but not nearer the hole.
If the unplayable ball is in a bunker, the player may proceed under Clause a, b or c. or c. If he elects to proceed under Clause b or c, a ball must be dropped in the bunker.
When proceeding under this Rule, the player may lift and clean his ball or substitute a ball.
May 7th, 2011 at 9:55 am
Ryan Gregg writes:
Joe,
There is no penalty for leaving the ball marker behind the ball when putting. Under Ruler 20-4, the ball is in play as soon as the ball is replaced. The ball marker is there to allow the player to put his hands on the ball. However, if the player is leaving it there for the purpose of alignment he would be penalized two strokes in stroke play or loss of hole in match play under Rule 8-2
May 7th, 2011 at 10:07 am
Bert Sobon writes:
A & B are playing C & D in 4-ball stroke play. A hits his ball to the green from the right side of the fairway. Dur to the countour of the green, neither A or B (who is standing near A) can see where A’s ball comes to rest on the green. C hits his ball from the left side of the fairway and notices that his ball moves A’s ball. Assuming that A was aware that his ball had been moved said nothing until after A putted his ball. C then claims that A had incurred a penalty under 18-5 for not replacing his ball. Is there a penalty involved? What is the proper procedure to follow before going to the next tee?
May 7th, 2011 at 2:24 pm
Al Caniglia writes:
If you are playing winter rules, and are allowed to lift, clean and place the ball, or are allowed a bump on your lie, are you allowed to change grasses, even if playing “through the green?”
May 7th, 2011 at 9:20 pm
Ryan Gregg writes:
Bert,
Player A is not penalized for playing from a wrong place. He would continue the play of the hole with the ball played from it’s new location. See Decision 18-1/3.
May 9th, 2011 at 7:58 am
Ryan Gregg writes:
Al,
The Rules of Golf do not permit a Committee to adopt a local rule for preferred lies through the green. The Local Rule for Preferred Lies is for “closely mown areas through the green”. Closely mown areas means any area of the course, including paths through the rough, cut to fairway height or less. Bumping the ball on your lie is not part of this local rule. See Appendix I(4c).
May 9th, 2011 at 8:06 am
Matt writes:
Recently I was playing in a Zone tournament at Poppy Hills and the other member of my team tee shot on #10 came to rest on the cart path. Fortunately there was a marshall there to assist us in the proper relief procedure. So I thought. My partners ball was on the left side of the path. The marshall insstructed him to drop on the side of the hill just left of the path. He then said my partner would not get a club length after he determined his nearest point of relief as that would put him back on the cart path. If my partner was left handed he would be allowed the club length as that would have taken him away from the path. I was a bit confused, we played on and that has stuck with me since. I’m still not convinced that was the right decision, but I don’t claim to be a rules expert either.
May 10th, 2011 at 12:51 pm
Ryan Gregg writes:
Matt,
It doesn’t seem that the procedure was followed correctly. Rule 24-2b permits a player to drop within a club-length of the nearest point of relief. In some cases, the entire one club-length may not be available as it may be nearer the hole, in a hazard, on a putting green, etc. I am having a hard time understanding how the cart path would still interfere with the player’s stance, lie of ball or area of intended swing. Perhaps the nearest point of relief was not determined accurately.
May 10th, 2011 at 1:36 pm
Neal Watts writes:
Two issues came up recently during a stroke play event at our club.
While on the green, Player A marked his ball with a tee. His competitor, Player B, offered to replace the tee with a marker of his own. Player A told Player B not to replace it, that he would get a marker from his bag and replace the tee. On the way back with his marker, Player A saw Player B pick up the tee and replace it with a marker of his own. Did Player B violate any rule in this instance?
On a subsequent hole, while on the green, Player A marked his own ball with a marker from his pocket. He noticed that the marker was not his and proceeded to replace the marker with one of his own. The new marker was larger than the replaced marker, so Player A carefully alligned the front of the new marker with the marker to be replaced and slid the new marker into place while removing the old marker. Did Player A violate any rule in this instance?
May 10th, 2011 at 3:31 pm
Ryan Gregg writes:
Neal,
In the first situation, there is no penalty to either player. Player B is an outside agency. Either he or the player must replace the ball marker(or another one in its place). See decision 20-1/9.
In the second situation, if he slid one out while he slid the other one in, it would be a one stroke penalty under Rule 20-1, as the position would not be properly marked. If he tilted one up and slide the other one underneath it in a way that left the first one there until the second was in place it would be ok. Or, if he put down his finger where the ball would have been and moved the marker into place it would be ok. See Rule 20-1.
May 11th, 2011 at 8:05 am
Neal Watts writes:
But the first situation seems much like the second situation. Once the tee was removed, how could the position be properly marked? Unless one accounts for the small mark the tee would have made on the green (which then perhaps Decision 20-1/16 would apply). But then this would be the same for the second situation, because I forgot to tell you that in the second situation the replaced marker was the kind with a large post on the bottom, so that it left a mark on the green (similar to the mark that the tee would have left in the first situation). Rule 20-1 requires the ball position to be marked. Decision 20-1/16 gives an example that indicates a mark made on the green is not recommended but acceptable (the decision’s example is scratching a line, but a hole from a marker post, or a tee, would also serve this function).
May 11th, 2011 at 10:32 am
Ryan Gregg writes:
Neal,
In the first situation the ball marker was moved by the fellow-competitor and Rule 18-4 applies. Neither player is penalized even if the exact location is not known.
In the second situation, the mark left on the green by the post would not be the same as a scratch on the putting green made by a player. The scratch was made for the purpose to mark the ball. The hole made by the ball marker is a result of marking the ball with ball marker. The hole made by the ball marker is more like the prohibited action of using a blemish on the green in Decision 20-1/16.
May 11th, 2011 at 10:45 am
Nancy writes:
Is there a NCGA rule for a maximum allowable handicap for club play of 36 for men and 40 for women? If yes, can you give me the proper citation? thanks.
May 11th, 2011 at 2:35 pm
Neal Watts writes:
Sorry Ryan, one more follow up question regarding the hole made by the marker.
What if the player (before he replaces his marker with another marker) declares that he is pushing down on the marker to leave a mark on the green to temporarily locate the ball position, and then immediately after pushing on the marker, uses the mark left on the green to locate the substitute marker? It seems like this would be within the intent of the decision.
May 12th, 2011 at 12:47 pm
Ryan Gregg writes:
Neal,
I would agree that a player would be operating within the Rules.
May 12th, 2011 at 1:12 pm
David C. Angel writes:
At our tournament today, a player was observed entering a sand trap, playing a shot, the ball did not leave the trap, the player then raked the spot where he’d played his first shot, then proceeded to the spot in the trap where his ball had come to rest and played his second shot onto the green.
Found this below on the USGA site, and want to confirm that there is no penatly in this situation for the player described above.
13-4/36 Smoothing Irregularities in Bunker After Stroke But Before Ball Extricated
Q. A makes a stroke in a bunker but fails to extricate his ball from the bunker. He smoothes irregularities in the area where the stroke was made. The smoothing does not breach Rule 13-2 with respect to his next stroke. However, B, his opponent, claims that the smoothing assisted A in his subsequent play of the hole because it constituted testing the consistency of the sand. Is B right?
A. No. In such circumstances Exception 2 to Rule 13-4 permits smoothing, provided nothing is done to breach Rule 13-2 with respect to the player’s next stroke.
May 14th, 2011 at 10:44 pm
Brian Benn writes:
While playing in an NCGA point tournament (The Sonoma County Amateur), after teeing off I announced my intention to hit a provisional ball as my tee shot appeared to be heading out of bounds. One of my competitors insisted that my provisional ball had to be the same brand and model as my first ball, but marked differently in order to distinguish it, siting the “one ball rule”. I disagreed, as the Rule was not spelled out in the local rules sheet handed out for the tournament, and I was under the impression that the rule only applied to professional events and/or highly-skilled amateur events. He replied that in NGCA point events, the one ball rule applies to provisional balls. I complied with his requirements, and then found my first ball in bounds anyway. Was he correct?
May 15th, 2011 at 9:28 pm
Ryan Gregg writes:
David,
Exception 2 to Rule 13-4 is the applicable rule. There is no penalty.
May 16th, 2011 at 9:30 am
Ryan Gregg writes:
Brain,
The “One Ball Rule” is only used when adopted by the Committee. If the Committee had not notified the players that it was in effect, then it is not. The NCGA does not adopt the “One Ball Rule” for any of its championships or qualifiers. However, the USGA does adopt the “One Ball” Condition for its championships and qualifiers. Please see Appendix I Part C, for the prescribed condition.
May 16th, 2011 at 9:37 am
Larry Nathan writes:
This question regards Rule 13-4 (Ball in Hazard; Prohibited Actions). Let’s say you are in a lateral hazard with grass up to mid-calf high. You think you can play your ball as it lies. If you do not ground your club, can you take practice swings (away from the ball where they would not improve your line of play) and touch or brush the high grass with your club? Or, is touching the top of the grass considered grounding your club? Thanks!
May 17th, 2011 at 9:47 am
Bob G writes:
One of the players in our foursome hit a provisional tee shot. We found his original ball and abandoned his provisional ball. On my way to my tee shot I offered to pick up his provisional ball. Unfortunately I mistakenly picked up another players ball and not the provisional ball. We realized my mistake and replaced the ball before a stroke was made. I added a one stroke penalty to my score for moving another players ball. Was that the correct way to proceed?
May 17th, 2011 at 3:19 pm
Ryan Gregg writes:
Bob,
You should have not been penalized. You are an outside agency to that player’s ball. See Rule 18-4.
May 17th, 2011 at 3:58 pm
Ryan Gregg writes:
Larry,
The Note to Rule 13-4 states that a player may touch grass, bush or any growing thing at address or in the backward movement of the club. Your actions would not be considered grounding the club (decision 13-4/4). However, you would be in violation of Rule 13-4a for testing the condition of the hazard.
May 17th, 2011 at 4:25 pm
Jim Cowan writes:
Nancy, thank you for your comment. The maximum USGA Handicap Index for men is 36.4, for women is 40.4. Bear in mind that these maximum Index figures can and do result in much higher Course Handicaps on sets of tees with high Slope Ratings. A man, for example, playing the back tees at Spyglass would find that his 36.4 coverts to a Course Handicap of 46. Handicaps can be computed above 36.4/40.4, but they must bear the letter “L” to indicate that they are for Local use only. Some of our NCGA tournaments do carry a handicap limit (i.e., Index of 18.4 or less) for various reasons. For your own events, do whatever makes sense. And if you like, go ahead and use Local handicaps that exceed 36.4/40.4. Thanks again – Jim Cowan, Director of Course Rating and Handicapping
May 18th, 2011 at 4:27 pm
hugh mckenzie writes:
If your ball is under a shrub, and in the rough, and you declare your ball unplayble, must it be dropped back into the rough, even thoug your two club relief would put you back into the fairway? Thanks for answering, as we have several different opinions on this matter.
May 18th, 2011 at 4:28 pm
Ryan Gregg writes:
Hugh,
The rules of golf do not differentiate between rough and fairway. The ball may be dropped in the fairway. NOTE: When proceeding under Rule 28 a ball may be dropped anywhere on the course, including hazards and putting greens.
May 20th, 2011 at 8:08 am
Phillip Sexton writes:
A players ball lies outside a Environmentally Sensitive Area (ESA) but his stance would be in the ESA. Would he be entitled to free relief?
May 20th, 2011 at 10:19 am
Ryan Gregg writes:
Phillip,
A player is entitled to relief for stance and area of intended swing interference from an environmentally sensitive area, without penalty. See Appendix I for the prescribed relief procedure.
May 20th, 2011 at 11:04 am
Carol Morgan writes:
One of our members uses rubber tees and has a couple of different height ones attached to the same piece of string (for ease of locating them and less chance of losing them).
He was recently told by an opposing team player that by using a tee with the others still attached he was in violation of a rule; that he could be pinpointing his line of play.
Could you clarify please.
May 23rd, 2011 at 2:57 am
Ryan Gregg writes:
Carol,
The player may not use a tee with a string attached. The opponent was correct. The player would be in breach of Rule 14-3 and would be disqualified. Even if the player doesn’t use the string as an alignment device they would still be in violation.
May 24th, 2011 at 10:32 am
John writes:
Similar question to earlier one about different par for Men and Women but instead of match play what about stroke play or skins?
Women shoots 72 on a par 74 course and
a man shoots 71 on a par 72 course who wins in a Gross tournament?
On par 3 for men and a par 4 for women, all men make a 3 or greater and a woman makes a 3, would she win the skin because she made a birdie?
Thanks
May 24th, 2011 at 8:23 pm
Jim Cowan writes:
John, thank you for your comment. Last time I checked, low gross goes to the lowest score, not the lowest score in relationship to par. So I am going to have to say that the man who shot 71 wins. In a similar vein, I am going to say that everybody tied with a hole score of 3, so no skin awarded on the par 3/4. The results could be different in a net competition. It wouldn’t surprise me if the women’s Course Rating was higher than the men’s meaning that the women would add strokes to their handicap equal to the difference in the ratings. Thanks again – Jim Cowan, Director of Course Rating and Handicapping
May 25th, 2011 at 5:04 pm
Carol Morgan writes:
Is it permissable to mark the position of the ball on the greens with the head of the putter and lift & clean your ball with one hand whilst still holding on to the putter with the other?
May 26th, 2011 at 4:08 am
Ryan Gregg writes:
Carol,
Decision 20-1/16 says that it is not recommended but it is permitted to mark the ball with the toe of the putter.
May 26th, 2011 at 8:08 am
Butch Larroche writes:
Is it ok to wear a wrist support during tournament play? A support like a sweatband.
May 26th, 2011 at 1:48 pm
Ryan Gregg writes:
Butch,
Exception #1 to Rule 14-3 States that a player is not in breach of this Rule if (a) the equipment or device is designed for or has the effect of alleviating a medical condition, (b) the player has a legitimate medical reason to use the equipment or device, and (c) the Committee is satisfied that its use does not give the player any undue advantage over other players. A wrist support or sweatband would fall into this category.
May 26th, 2011 at 2:38 pm
Dave writes:
During a tournament round of golf this past week we approached one of the greens and found a small sliver of soap on the green near the hole. We picked it up and tossed it aside. Afterward, one of the players in the group said he heard of people “waxing” their drivers with soap to eliminate spin to reduce hooking or slicing. I’m not sure if this is true but is it permitted? Should we have notified a tournament official of a potential rules violation?
May 27th, 2011 at 9:36 am
Ted Wong writes:
Plastic liner installed around the greens is protruding up. Is it considered an obstruction or an intergral part of the golf course?
May 28th, 2011 at 10:06 am
Lance Parker writes:
In match play, when does the 5 minute search begin if a player or his side or their caddies do not search for a lost ball but the opponent starts to search.
May 28th, 2011 at 7:05 pm
Ryan Gregg writes:
Dave,
Rule 4-2b states “Foreign material must not be applied to the club face for the purpose of influencing the movement of the ball”. Penalty for breach of this Rule is disqualification. Yes, you should report the facts to the Committee to allow them to investigate the matter with the players.
May 29th, 2011 at 10:36 am
Ryan Gregg writes:
Ted,
The plastic liner by definition is an immovable obstruction. A player would be entitled to relief, without penalty unless the Committee had deemed it to be an integral part of the course.
May 29th, 2011 at 10:38 am
Carol Morgan writes:
Hi Ryan,
Going back to the query about using tees with string attached,a few of our members are saying that when purchasing a set of winter cone tees, they come attached to each other with string and washers. Do they have to take these apart or is it a different ruling for winter tees used off the mats, even when a competition is being played?
May 29th, 2011 at 11:28 am
Ryan Gregg writes:
Lance,
See Decision 27-2b/2. The 5 minute search starts when opponent begins searching.
May 30th, 2011 at 6:26 am
Ryan Gregg writes:
Carol,
I am not familiar with Winter Cone Tees. String may not be attached to a tee because it may be used to indicate a line of play.
May 30th, 2011 at 6:31 am
Dan writes:
Hi Ryan,
I hesitate to even mildly disagree with you on the rules of golf as my success rate in such discussions is worse than the Giants team batting average, but I think Decisions 27-2b/2 and /1 are special and very limited equity situations that should be considered only when the player of the ball in question does not wish to search for his ball. Rule 27-1.c tells us a search begins “after a player’s side or…their caddies have begun to search.” Otherwise, I could see a player hit a provisional short of where the original is likely to be and while the player is playing the provisional the opponent starts to search (maybe with his eyes closed) and by the time the player gets to the area of his original ball his search time could be down to three minutes or less. So, I suggest that in a couple of very specific situations a search could begin when the opponent starts the process, but, normally, the player or his side must begin the search time.
May 30th, 2011 at 11:00 am
Ryan Gregg writes:
Dan,
The opponents search has no bearing on the players search. The player would still have five minutes to search once he starts searching. Decisions 27-2b/1&2 specifically relates to the situation in which a player does not wish to search for his ball and the opponent benefits by finding it. The opponent would then have five minutes once he starts searching or until the player makes a stroke at the provisional ball from a spot closer to the hole than where the original is likely to be.
May 31st, 2011 at 8:39 am
Lance Parker writes:
Thanks Ryan,
I am familiar with Decision 27-2b/1&2 and how it contradicts section a) of the Definition of a Lost Ball. I liked your explanation to Dan about the search benefiting the opponent over the player. As a player, one way I could avoid Decision 27-2b/2, not wanting the ball to be found by anyone, would be to hit a second ball without declaring a provisional, thus making that second ball the ball in play under stroke and distance.
May 31st, 2011 at 2:49 pm
Ed writes:
In one of those “what if” situations that almost occurred in a recent tourney, we researched and found Decision 3-2/3 that says Player B can go back to hole out as he had not yet teed off on the next hole. Could he have done so if his partner had teed off on the next hole? Dec. 30-3f/12 would seem to indicate that once a partner has started a new hole, the previous hole is done for the other partner also; however, we can’t seem to find a rule that clarifies the situation. Help us out, please.
June 4th, 2011 at 7:48 am
Ryan Gregg writes:
Ed,
The definition of Competitor states that when the context so admits, the word competitor or fellow-competitor includes his partner. So when his partner plays from the next tee it is no different than if the player would have started the next hole. The player would not be permitted to go back and complete the play of the hole once his partner has started play of the next hole.
June 6th, 2011 at 8:15 am
Eric writes:
Hi – not trying to stump anyone but would love some help on a ruling. My playing partner was taking practice swings and hitting weeds that were inside a lateral hazard on his follow through. His ball was outside the hazard however. I told him I thought it was a penalty that his practice swings were hitting weeds inside the hazard. The weeds were never hit hard enough to be dislodged from the ground, but i thoguht it would be deemed as “testing conditions” or “improving his lie”. He disagrees and felt he was entitled to the practice swings regardless that he was making contact with items in the lateral hazard and since his ball lied outside the hazard. Let me know. Thanks!
June 6th, 2011 at 1:09 pm
Ryan Gregg writes:
Eric,
A player may touch grass and other growing things with his club when his ball lies in a hazard but he may not do anything that constitutes testing the condition of the hazard; per Rule 13-4. Since this player’s ball was not in the hazard there was nothing precluding him from taking practice swings and touching anything in the hazard.
June 6th, 2011 at 2:10 pm
Eric writes:
Thanks Ryan – follow up question. What if in taking the practice swings you say are legal he dislodges those weeds that were in direct path from the ball to the hole? Is that allowed? Thanks again!
June 6th, 2011 at 4:27 pm
Ryan Gregg writes:
Eric,
If the player were to dislodge the weeds, he would be in violation of Rule 13-2 for improving his line of play or area of intended swing.
June 6th, 2011 at 4:36 pm
Jay Henry writes:
Ryan, What is the rule regarding a ball hit to the green from 152yds and it contacts another players ball aready on the green and moves his ball away from the hole.
June 11th, 2011 at 1:07 pm
Lucille writes:
A few of us ladies went to an invitational were mulligans were sold. Each lady bought and used 2 mulligans. How should the holes where the mulligans were used be scored and posted?
June 12th, 2011 at 4:08 pm
Phillip Sexton writes:
Ryan this was submitted by Robin of the Arizona Golf Association. Is he stating that the cart path has the same status as a bountry fence or wall?
Phil Sexton
Out of bounds on hole # 4 is defined as the outside edge of the cart path behind the putting green. The Notice states, “A ball that lies beyond the cart path is out of bounds”. Player A’s ball lies on the cart path.
**Player A may play the ball as it lies or proceed under Rule 28.
The ball lies on the course and the cart path is not an obstruction since the cart path is an object that defines out of bounds.
(See the Definitions of “Out of Bounds” and “Obstructions”.)
June 12th, 2011 at 4:45 pm
Ryan Gregg writes:
Jay,
Rule 18-5 states that the ball that was at rest must be replaced. Rule 19-5 states that the ball that struck the ball at rest must be played as it lies.
June 12th, 2011 at 5:52 pm
Ryan Gregg writes:
Lucille,
The holes in which mulligans were used would be considered holes not played under the Rules of Golf. The player would score, for posting purposes, par plus any handicap stroke they were entitled to.
June 12th, 2011 at 5:54 pm
Ryan Gregg writes:
Phil,
Yes, any item used to describe the boundary of the course is not an obstruction by definition.
June 12th, 2011 at 5:57 pm
Dan writes:
Hi Ryan,
I know golf courses sometimes make local rules that don’t fully follow the rules of golf. I’m wondering if such is the case in Phil’s question of June 12th. His question looks like it may be a part of a rules quiz so we may not have all the necessary info, but my thinking is that if the cart path is the object that defines out of bounds, then it is analogous to a line that defines out of bounds. If a ball is totally on an ob line, it is ob; therefore if the ball is totally on the cart path it would be ob. The course obviously wants the outside edge of the cart path to be the course limit, so I would suggest it would be a better local rule if the path was declared an integral part of the course in the area in question, which would better fit the definition of an ob boundary. In either case the procedure/choices for a player with a ball on the path would not change, but as a good question for the right way to mark a course, what do you think?
June 15th, 2011 at 10:28 am
Larry D writes:
I was with a foursome and on the 17th hole and my friend just teed off and hit the ball right down the middle of the fairway. At the time we all teed off, the sprinklers were on in the middle of the fairway. After everyone completed their drive the sprinklers went off and we preceded to retrieve our balls for our second shot. To our frustration we could not find my friends ball, that had drove it right down the middle of the fairway. We all looked everywhere, our conclusion was that it fell into the sprinkler when it was in a raised position and his ball dropped in. When the sprinklers went off it lowered on top of his ball and it disappeared. Is there a rule for this?
June 15th, 2011 at 5:41 pm
Ryan Gregg writes:
Larry,
Rule 24-3b deals with a ball lost in an immovable obstruction. The key component is the player must have knowledge or virtual certainty that the ball is in fact lost in the obstruction. If the group knew the exact sprinkler in which the ball was swallowed up, then he may proceed by dropping a ball within one club-length of the nearest point of relief from the spot in which it crossed the outer limits of the sprinkler. Without knowledge or virtual certainty that the ball is in the sprinkler, the player must proceed under Rule 27-1 (stroke and distance for a lost ball).
June 16th, 2011 at 8:01 am
Ryan Gregg writes:
Dan,
I think the lesson to be learned here is that we have to be careful how we describe the boundaries of the course. Anything used to describe the boundaries of the course is by definition not an obstruction. If the club wants the cart path to remain an obstruction then it should use stakes or lines to describe the boundary in that area.
June 16th, 2011 at 8:03 am
Carol writes:
If I am under a tree on the fairway and I take a PRACTICE swing and my club hits a branch, am I penalized 2 strokes? I have been golfing for 6 years and was told about this rule for the first time today
June 16th, 2011 at 4:26 pm
Ryan Gregg writes:
Carol,
You are only penalized if your actions improved your stance, lie of ball, area of intended swing or your line of play. See Rule 13-2 and Decision 13-2/14.5 and 13-2/22.
June 16th, 2011 at 4:40 pm
Carol writes:
Thank You for your response and I’m sorry that I did not elaborate on the situation, but I was told that it was a two stoke penalty because a needle fell from the branch!
June 16th, 2011 at 4:54 pm
Ryan Gregg writes:
Carol,
I am not sure that the needle falling from the branch would constitute improvement to the area of intended swing. Decision 13-2/22:Q. A player’s ball lies near a tree or bush. The player takes a practice swing near his ball and knocks down leaves in the area of his intended swing. Is this a breach of Rule 13-2?
A. The answer depends on whether the area of the intended swing is improved. In some cases, the knocking down of a number of leaves would not improve the area of the intended swing as the player still has to swing through a number of remaining leaves when making his stroke. In such circumstances, there would be no breach of the Rules. In other cases, the knocking down of one leaf might improve the area of the intended swing, in which case there would be a breach of Rule 13-2.
If a player has improved the area of his intended swing by knocking down a leaf or a number of leaves, he cannot avoid penalty under Rule 13-2 by subsequently changing the area of his swing when he actually makes the stroke.
June 17th, 2011 at 8:22 am
Tran writes:
we have a match play going on at our local Eclub, starting from 32 players, 2 separate brackets, now is down to quarter final. My question is: are all players require to post their scores during the 2 months match play perior ?(At our club the guy that run the tournament do not post score for anybody he said it’s not his job) and if not what penalty should they be incurred for the next up coming match ? Thanks
June 17th, 2011 at 9:46 pm
Ryan Gregg writes:
Tran,
All players are required to post their scores in match play. No penalty is incurred. The players handicaps should be calculated by including the missing scores for their next match to insure that they are playing with an accurate handicap index.
June 18th, 2011 at 5:57 pm
Glen Coates writes:
If both cards have the same score recorded and the player confirms this score can he be disqualified even when no penalty was incurred during the hole.
My partner and I were disqualified because five days after the game I was asked “how many putts did he have on a particular hole”? I said ‘not sure, maybe 2′ which would have given him 2 stableford points for the hole, but 3 points were recorded on the card. Due to this memory laps and with NO one protesting about his putting on the hole, the match committee have disqualified him for signing an incorrect card.
Is this in breach of the rules by the committee.
June 26th, 2011 at 4:32 am
Ron West 2319487 writes:
Out of Bounds stakes
Does the line of two out of bounds stakes go on indefinite or does the out of bounds end at the last stake?
June 28th, 2011 at 4:43 pm
Ryan Gregg writes:
Glen,
Rule 34-1b states that a penalty may not be imposed after the competition has closed unless the player has returned a score for any hole lower than actually taken (Rule 6-6d) for any reason other than failure to include a penalty that, before the competition closed, he did not know he had incurred. I am a little confused by your comments. I cannot tell if you and your partner had the same score on the hole. If your partner’s ball was the one to count on that hole and it was a wrong score for the hole (the committee is responsible for the calculation of the stableford points) then the committee was justified in the disqualification.
June 29th, 2011 at 8:48 am
Ryan Gregg writes:
Ron,
It is up to the Committee to decide how they wish the out of bounds to be defined. If two stakes are next to each other, it normally means that the out of bounds stops at that point and any ball beyond those two stakes would be in bounds. In some cases, the stakes are put next to each other to identify that the out of bounds goes left or right to infinity. Please ask the committee for their intention.
June 29th, 2011 at 8:52 am
Ed writes:
In match play player A is four feet from the hole. His opponent B is a few inches further from the hole. B should putt first; however, to do so he would be standing directly on the line of A. If A and B agree that it is ok for A to putt first (and maybe even also agree that the putt will not be recalled) have they violated 1-3 Agreement to Waive Rules and thus should be dqued? Or does etiquette and common sense allow such a procedure to take place?
June 29th, 2011 at 1:11 pm
Ryan Gregg writes:
Ed,
Once they verbally communicate that they knowingly are going to waive a Rule of Golf they must be disqualified. Player A may putt without saying anything and Player B may choose to not recall the stroke. In this case there would be no violation. Also see Decision 2-5/1.
June 29th, 2011 at 3:56 pm
Steve N. writes:
In a round that I played yesterday, I had a first (for me). Playing a par 3, I pulled my tee shot. I knew that it was heading for a cart that the foursome ahead of my parked on the cart path between my hole and their tee. When I went to hit my second shot, I discovered the ball landed inside the cart. Is there a penalty for that. Our group had a discussion as to whether I should have incurred a penalty.
June 30th, 2011 at 1:05 pm
Ryan Gregg writes:
Steve,
There would be no penalty. It was “rub of the green” (ball deflected by outside agency). Rule 24-1 (movable obstruction) applies and the cart must be moved and the ball dropped.
June 30th, 2011 at 1:36 pm
Dan writes:
Hi Ryan,
At a junior tourney at Mather today a player who was at first left with an open shot to the green after his tee shot found, suddenly, and to his surprise that his shot was blocked by a fairway mower that was stalled and would not restart. Moments after we heard this situation on the radios, the official happily notified us that the recalcitrant lawnmower did indeed get started and moved out of the way of the young, befuddled golfer. The mower was not so close to the ball that it interfered with lie, stance or area of swing, but it was close enough to block the view of the green and require a difficult shot to hit over the mower. If the mower had not been able to be moved would it have been correct to allow relief under the TIO local rule?
June 30th, 2011 at 10:05 pm
Bob G writes:
Playing a second ball under 3-3.
In many stroke play tournaments participants are instructed to play two balls under rule 3-3 when therere is a doubt on a rule.
However, my understanding of rule 3-3 is that the player must declare which ball will count prior to playing a second ball. Many players have refused to do that stating that the rules comittee will decide which ball should count.
If a player refuses to declare which ball should count if rule 3-3 is adopted, is that player penalized? How should this be handled?
July 1st, 2011 at 4:06 pm
Ryan Gregg writes:
Dan,
Yes, the mower would be considered a Temporary Immovable Obstruction (TIO) if it could not be moved. See Appendix I for relief procedures.
July 2nd, 2011 at 6:41 am
Ryan Gregg writes:
Bob,
If both balls are played in accordance with the Rules, the ball selected counts if the competitor announces in advance his decision to invoke this Rule and announces in advance the ball with which he wishes to score. If the competitor does not announce or select in advance, the score with the original ball counts if played in accordance with the Rules. See Decision 3-3/0.5 for additional guidelines for determining which ball should count when played under Rule 3-3.
July 2nd, 2011 at 6:45 am
Drew Pettit writes:
During the course of a four-ball match, Player A lagged up to the hole a tapped in for a 4. He then stated he had a 4 for a net 3.And he stated the match was over. He did not end up recieving a shot on the hole so his score would only be a 4.
Both of his opponents still had putts remaining that could have won the hole. They each missed and finished with 4s to tie.
My question is does player A lose the hole for giving false information? or was it his opponents job to know his score?
July 3rd, 2011 at 8:34 am
Thomas McAvoy writes:
Can a player compress a slight amount of grass in front of a golf ball to help insure proper alighnment? Stroke or Match play. I had match where a person did this on every stroke.
July 3rd, 2011 at 9:24 pm
Ryan Gregg writes:
Thomas,
No, a player may not compress the grass in front of his golf ball. It would be a two stroke penalty in stroke play or loss of hole in match play for violation of Rule 13-2.
July 4th, 2011 at 6:36 am
Ryan Gregg writes:
Drew,
There would be no penalty for wrong information under Rule 9-2. It is up to each player to know the holes at which handicap strokes are to be given or received. See the note to Rule 6-2 and Decision 6-2a/3.
July 5th, 2011 at 10:47 am
Dave writes:
Where does out of bounds start if there is a white line and a white stake one yard inside the white line indicating OB? The edge of the fairway was bounded by an access road into the course and there was a white line painted on the edge of the road indicating OB. In addition, there were white stakes (likely to alert the golfer that there was OB on the left) but the stakes were set away from the road by a yard. My drive ended up outside the white stake but inside the white line. Am I out of bounds?
July 6th, 2011 at 10:11 am
Ryan Gregg writes:
Dave,
The definition of Out of Bounds states “When both stakes and lines are used to indicate out of bounds, the stakes identify out of bounds and the lines define out of bounds. When out of bounds is defined by a line on the ground, the line itself is out of bounds”. By this definition, your ball is on the course.
July 6th, 2011 at 10:16 am
Gunasekharan Kunjan writes:
My ball is at rest on green. I walk to it and fly suddenly decides to sit on it and it starts to roll further away from the hole. What do I do.
July 6th, 2011 at 2:41 pm
Ryan Gregg writes:
Gunasekharan,
The fly would be considered and outside agency and Rule 18-1 applies. If it can be proven that the ball was moved by the fly, then you may replace the ball back to its original position. See the Note to Rule 18-1. However, I believe that the ball most likely was moved by wind or gravity and you must play the ball as it lies.
July 6th, 2011 at 3:27 pm
Frank Pineda writes:
A players hits his drive into an area of tall weeds where he feels he might not be able to find his ball. He hits a provisional drive along the same line as his original ball and into a bunker. He finds his original ball in the tall weeds and hits it along the same line as his provisional ball but past the bunker where his provisional ball landed. He goes to the bunker, sees a ball with his markings on it and hits it. He then realizes he hit the provisional ball and not his original ball which was several yards past the bunker. What would be the ruling in this situation? Does he receive a penalty? Does he continue playing the original ball or the provisional ball?
July 7th, 2011 at 2:11 pm
Ryan Gregg writes:
Frank,
When the player played the provisional ball, believing it was the original ball – he played a wrong ball and Rule 15-3 applies. He receives a two stroke penalty in stroke play or loss of hole in match play. He must correct the error by playing out the hole with his original ball.
July 7th, 2011 at 2:30 pm
Paul Agriesti writes:
When hitting a provisional ball, what must a competitor announce?
We have people at our club just saying they are hitting a provisional
ball without identifying it to us. Should the announcement be like
hitting off the first tee when we announce what ball we are playing
and how it is marked??
Our main question, when not announcing a ball that has identifying
marks, how do we know, as competitors, that the ball hit is actually
the provisional ball, especialy, if it goes into the woods, heavy rough???
I’ve looked through the rules and decisions book and I’m stumped!
Please help.
Thanks,
Paul
or some other place where we lose sight of it??
July 8th, 2011 at 3:50 pm
rick writes:
Inside a water hazard is a 3 ft. upright pipe with normal garden water faucet at the top and a hose attached to the faucet. The hose is a moveable obstruction (which may be moved even in a w/h) and the pipe is an immovable obstruction from which free relief is not available for a ball in the hazard. Now for the question. If a ball is close to pipe can the hose be unscrewed from the faucet to help give relief for lie, swing or stance?
July 8th, 2011 at 8:37 pm
Ryan Gregg writes:
Paul,
A provisional ball announcement only needs to include that the player intends to play a provisional ball. Information on the brand, type or number of the ball use is advisable, to avoid possible confusion or a dispute, but not required.
Rule 6-5 says a player should put an identification mark on his ball. Also, not a requirement, but a good idea to avoid playing a wrong ball.
July 9th, 2011 at 7:34 am
Ryan Gregg writes:
Rick,
Decision 24-2b/15.3 allows the player to move the hose in any manner. As long as it can be removed without unreasonable effort or causing damage to the course as stated in the definition of Obstruction.
July 9th, 2011 at 7:40 am
Mike Loftus writes:
My approach shot struck a goose next to the green. The ball bounced off the critter into a green-side bunker. I played the ball from the bunker but my partner said I should have rehit the shot from the original spot with no penalty. What is correct?
July 11th, 2011 at 8:11 am
Ryan Gregg writes:
Mike,
You are required to play the ball where it came to rest. See definition of Rub of the Green and Rule 19-1.
July 12th, 2011 at 8:34 am
Carol Morgan writes:
Are you allowed to kneel on the green when lining up your putts?
July 18th, 2011 at 6:13 am
gary thornton writes:
A players ball comes to rest several feet or yards from the green, in the players line is a sprinkler head and he wants to putt his ball, is the player entitled relief from the sprinkler head?
July 18th, 2011 at 5:14 pm
Ryan Gregg writes:
Carol,
There is nothing in the Rules of Golf that prohibit you from kneeling on the green to line up a putt. If it is causing damage to the green, I highly recommend some other method.
July 18th, 2011 at 10:39 pm
Ryan Gregg writes:
Gary,
Only if the Committee has adopted the Local Rule.
The Local Rule can be found in Appendix I of the Rules of Golf. In order to use this rule, the obstruction must be within 2 club-lengths of the edge of the green, your ball must be within 2 club-lengths of the obstruction and it must be on your line of play. Your ball can not be in a hazard. You would find the nearest point not nearer the hole where the obstruction is not on your line of play and drop there. Notice that you drop at the point of relief, not 1 club-length as in relief from a normal obstruction. Also, there is no guarantee that you will drop in the same mowed area. You might move from the fringe to the rough or vice versa.
In general, this rule should only be used at courses where there are large chipping areas around the greens and not when rough is generally close to the green.
July 18th, 2011 at 10:42 pm
Wayne Jones writes:
Our course has 4×4 posts marking yardage at 100,150&200 yds. These posts are set in the rough and we give relief for obstuction and line of flight.My question is can a ball be moved from the rough to the fairway if it is within one club lenght or does the drop have to stay in the rough?
July 19th, 2011 at 5:58 am
Steve LaRosa writes:
A player takes a swing to get his ball out of a sand bunker. The clubface strikes the sand behind the ball and the ball is airborne. The clubface continues and hits the in-flight ball. Is that a penalty? If so, what rule governs?
July 19th, 2011 at 8:59 am
M.Mulligan writes:
I play with a golfer that does the following on the gree. Replaces ball on the green, removes ball marker, places right foot directly behind the ball (without touching or moving it), then steps down as if to leave an impression. Then takes normal stance and putts the ball. It is routine permissible?
July 19th, 2011 at 11:17 am
Greg writes:
A player hits a ball towards a water hazard. Further right is Out of Bounds, so the player plays a provisional ball under rule 27-2.
Searching for the ball, the ball is found inside the water hazard, but on dry ground.
Rule 27-2 states, “If it is known or virtually certain that the original ball is in a water hazard, the player must proceed in accordance with Rule 26-1.”
The provisional ball is abandoned, and the original ball is deemed in play.
Another player says that he must take relief from the hazard and cannot play the ball as it lies (even though it’s on dry ground in the hazard).
So, could the player play his original ball from within the hazard or must he proceed under rule 26-1 and take a drop?
July 19th, 2011 at 1:07 pm
Ryan Gregg writes:
Wayne,
It sounds like the yardage markers are immovable obstructions by definition. Rule 24-2 grants a player relief from stance, lie of ball and area of intended swing, but not line of play. If the player has interference as described in Rule 24-2 he may drop the ball within one club-length of his nearest point of relief, no nearer the hole. The Rules of Golf do not differentiate between fairway or rough. The player may drop in either.
July 19th, 2011 at 8:32 pm
Ryan Gregg writes:
Steve,
The player has incurred a penalty of one stroke for striking the ball more than once under Rule 14-4.
July 19th, 2011 at 8:33 pm
Ryan Gregg writes:
M. Milligan,
The player is in violation of Rule 13-2 and incurs a two stroke penalty in stroke play or loss of hole in match play. The player is not entitled to press down irregularities of surface around his ball unless it is on the teeing ground.
July 19th, 2011 at 8:36 pm
Ryan Gregg writes:
Greg,
When the player played the provisional, he did so thinking his ball may be lost outside a water hazard or out of bounds which is acceptable under the Rules of Golf (Rule 27-2). When he finds the ball in the water hazard the provisional is no longer in play and he must proceed with the original ball. Since it was found in the water hazard he may either play it or proceed under Rule 26-1. See Decision 27-2a/2.2 and 27-2a/2.5.
July 19th, 2011 at 8:43 pm
Carole Loving writes:
Question: I was told by a long-time golfer that when a golfer holes his putt, he should immediately retrieve his ball from the cup because when the next golfer holes his putt it will hit the first ball in the cup and the second golfer will have a two-stroke penalty…I am unable to verify this is an accurate understanding of a ball on the green being putted into another ball and receiving two stroke penalty…it seems that once it is holed out, it is not on the green.
So, is a penalty or not?
Thanks from Idaho,
Carole Loving
July 22nd, 2011 at 6:10 am
Ryan Gregg writes:
Carole,
See the definition of Ball in Play. Once the ball is holed it is no longer in play and has no status in relation to the other players ball. There is no penalty if the balls were to collide in the hole.
July 22nd, 2011 at 8:33 am
John Robinson writes:
I have a disagreement with members of my club concerning the holes that strokes are to be allocated to each player in match play. The USGA states that the strokes should be allocated to “equalize” the holes. My position is that if I am a 10 handicap on this course and my opponent is a 15, he would get strokes on the numbers 11 thru 15 handicap holes. My reasoning is that the first 10 handicap holes we are both expected to get boogies. If I gave him a stroke on the #1 handicap hole and I did not get a stroke on that hole he is expected to beat me on the hole because he gets a stroke.
July 22nd, 2011 at 10:30 am
Michael writes:
Question: In a stroke play partners event, is it a penalty for you or your partner when reading for example a 30 foot putt to stand on your line as if they were putting the last 10 feet of a putt and ground your putter. If it is a penalty, how many strokes and what would be the penaly if it were match play?
July 22nd, 2011 at 10:53 am
Ryan Gregg writes:
Michael,
Yes, it is a penalty. Rule 16-1a does not allow a player to touch the line of putt in this manner. The penalty is loss of hole in match play or two strokes in stroke play.
July 22nd, 2011 at 11:50 am
Jim Cowan writes:
John – thank you for your comment. In a head-to-head match, you would play at scratch, your opponent at a 5. You would give him a stroke on the 1 thru 5 ranked holes. Look at it this way, without strokes which hole do you think you have a better chance at beating him, a long tough par five (perhaps the #1 ranked hole) or a short simple par three (perhaps the #18 ranked hole)? Your superior ability should come through on the tougher holes meaning your opponent needs the strokes from you on those holes. Thanks again. Jim Cowan, Director of Course Rating and Handicapping
July 22nd, 2011 at 12:02 pm
George writes:
A player’s ball came to rest on long dry straw/grass on a severe slope. When he walked on the dry straw/grass to check out the lie/stand without a club, the ball rolled down the slope. Is the player penalized or just play from where the ball roll to rest without penalty?
July 22nd, 2011 at 8:53 pm
Dan Smith writes:
On a par 3, my second shot was going directly at the pin; however, no one in our foursome could find the ball. After an extensive search, we found the ball had actually stuck in the corner of the flag. As I removed the pin to free the ball from the flag, the ball fell into the hole. I thought my score should be a 2; however, quite a discussion ensued within our group regarding the appropriate ruling. What is the correct ruling?
July 24th, 2011 at 9:05 pm
Ryan Gregg writes:
George,
If the player caused the ball to move, the ball must be replaced and the player would incur a one stroke penalty under Rule 18-2a. If the player did not cause the ball to move and it moved because of gravity, wind or water the ball is played as it lies, without penalty.
July 25th, 2011 at 9:39 pm
Robert C Barr writes:
In my last tournament with my local club, I chipped the ball to within 5″ of the hole on the 18th green. One of the players in my foursome decided to knock my ball back to me to “give” me the putt.
I knew that I must putt the ball in or I’d be DQ’d for not putting the ball in the final hole.
I told him to replace the ball ito it’s original location so that I could follow the rules or I’d be DQ’d. He simply said the rules were ridicuous about me maybe missing a 6″ putt. He did replace the ball and I did make the putt for a double-bogey.
I shot a net 65 to his net 66 and I did win the tournament.
I don’t believe that I incur a penalty stroke for him moving my ball, but does he get a penalty for interfering with my ball?
July 25th, 2011 at 9:50 pm
Ryan Gregg writes:
Dan,
As long as the search did not take more than 5 minutes, Decision 17/6 applies. You must place the ball at the edge of the hole and you would lie two at that spot.
July 26th, 2011 at 5:35 am
Ryan Gregg writes:
Robert,
Your fellow-competitor is an outside agency and Rule 18-4 applies. The ball must be replaced without penalty to either player.
July 26th, 2011 at 5:38 am
Carol Morgan writes:
We played a qualifying round in which the best 8 gross scores qualified to play in a match play knockout competition. All of the following matches were to be played off scratch.
Two of the players played their game and posted the result, a couple of days later it was realised that they had played with a full handicap difference and shots given accordingly.
What is the ruling please?
July 30th, 2011 at 1:34 am
Steve LaRosa writes:
Hi Ryan,
In response to my question: “A player takes a swing to get his ball out of a sand bunker. The CLUBFACE STRIKES THE SAND BEHIND THE BALL and the ball is airborne. The clubface continues and hits the in-flight ball. Is that a penalty? If so, what rule governs?” (I’ve now capitalized the pertinent portion.)
You wrote: “The player has incurred a penalty of one stroke for striking the ball more than once under Rule 14-4.”
Because the ball was touched only ONCE by the clubface, why would Rule 14-4 apply? Thanks again…just need clarification.
July 30th, 2011 at 10:22 am
George Hinds writes:
My approach shot to the green goes into a water hazard and lies out of bounds. It last crossed the margin of the hazard in bounds. The flow of water in the hazard carries the ball downstream so it now is in bounds. May I proceed under rule 26-1 instead of 27-1?
July 30th, 2011 at 12:39 pm
Ryan Gregg writes:
Steve,
See decision 14-4/3. The fact that the club did not come into contact with the ball when the sand was struck, is still a one stroke penalty under Rule 14-4.
July 30th, 2011 at 1:23 pm
Ryan Gregg writes:
Carol,
The match stands as played. See Decision 6-2/5. The results may not be changed after the results have been officially announced.
July 30th, 2011 at 1:28 pm
Ryan Gregg writes:
George,
Since the ball lies in bounds, the player may use the options as prescribed in Rule 26 (Water Hazards).
July 30th, 2011 at 1:31 pm
Rich Boragno writes:
I was watching the British Open. I think it was Ricky Fowler who was off the green and was going to putt his ball but there was a sprinkler head between his ball and the hole. I think he got relief, a club length from the obstruction.
If the sprinkler head is a man made obstruction can he get relief if it lies in your putt path when off the green. What happen in the British Open did not agree with Rule 24.
August 1st, 2011 at 12:35 pm
Adrienne writes:
Is it legal to use tees with swing thoughts printed on them?
August 1st, 2011 at 10:04 pm
George writes:
When can a player drop his ball on the green when he is taking a free relief off the putting surface?
August 3rd, 2011 at 9:42 pm
Mike Kintz writes:
Can an extra club be layed down in a bunker while you play your bunker shot? For example, I enter the bunker with my wedge and putter. I lay the putter down in the bunker while I play my shot. Is there a pentalty?
Thanks for the help.
August 5th, 2011 at 5:30 pm
Ken Stuart writes:
During the 2011 Open Championship, a player left his approach just short of the green, and on the approach. With a good lie, the player chose to put; however, there were sprinkler-heads in his path, and he was given relief. The commentators stated that, if the sprinkler-heads were within two club-lengths of the green, and if the ball was within two club-lengths of the sprinkler-heads, the player was allowed relief.
Is it considered an immovable obstruction, is this applicable under USGA rules, does it apply only to the Euro-Tour, is it a local rule, or is it only applicable to the R&A? I don’t understand.
August 6th, 2011 at 8:09 am
Ryan Gregg writes:
Dear Rich,
You are absolutely correct that the ruling would not be consistent with Rule 24. Rule 24 in and of itself does not provide relief for obstructions on your line of play.
However, in Appendix I (Section B) there is a local rule relating to Immovable Obstructions Close to a Putting Green that reads:
“Relief from interference by an immovable obstruction may be taken under Rule 24-2. In addition, if a ball lies off the putting green but not in a hazard and an immovable obstruction on or within two club-lengths of the putting green and within two club-lengths of the ball intervenes on the line of play between the ball and the hole, the player may take relief as follows:
The ball must be lifted and dropped at the nearest point to where the ball lay that a) is not nearer the hole, b) avoids intervention and c) is not in a hazard or on a putting green. The ball may be cleaned when lifted.”
This Local Rule was in effect for the Open Championship and was the reason for the relief. This Local Rule is becoming more and more popular as closely mown aprons making the putter a viable option are becoming more and more popular at golf courses and championships.
August 7th, 2011 at 4:15 am
Ryan Gregg writes:
Adrienne,
The answer is yes, you may use tees with swing thoughts printed on them. Accessing information on advice-related matters produced prior to the start of the round is ok. (See Decision 14-3/16). The problem with those tees would occur if the player were to search through the bag of “advice tees” and hand a specific one to another player. That would be giving advice and you would be subject to penalty under Rule 8-1.
August 7th, 2011 at 4:16 am
Ryan Gregg writes:
George,
A player may drop a ball on the putting green in four different situations under the Rules of Golf:
1) When taking relief from an obstruction when the ball is in a bunker under penalty of one stroke (Rule 24-2).
2) When taking relief from an Abnormal Ground Condition when the ball is in a bunker under penalty of one stroke (Rule 25-1).
3) When taking relief from a Lateral Water Hazard when the ball lies in the hazard. Your relief options may put you in position to drop on the putting green (Rule 26-1).
4) When taking relief for an unplayable ball and the ball is NOT in a bunker. Your relief options may put you in position to drop on the putting green (Rule 28).
So there is actually no FREE relief option to drop a ball on the putting green. Even though you are operating under a free relief Rule in the first two options above, the only way you could drop on the putting green is under penalty of one stroke because you get to drop outside the bunker.
August 7th, 2011 at 4:21 am
Ryan Gregg writes:
Mike,
Yes, you may place your clubs in the bunker without penalty.
See exception #1 to Rule 13-4.
August 7th, 2011 at 4:25 am
Ryan Gregg writes:
Ken,
Rule 24 in and of itself does not provide relief for obstructions on your line of play.
However, in Appendix I (Section B) there is a local rule relating to Immovable Obstructions Close to a Putting Green that reads:
“Relief from interference by an immovable obstruction may be taken under Rule 24-2. In addition, if a ball lies off the putting green but not in a hazard and an immovable obstruction on or within two club-lengths of the putting green and within two club-lengths of the ball intervenes on the line of play between the ball and the hole, the player may take relief as follows:
The ball must be lifted and dropped at the nearest point to where the ball lay that a) is not nearer the hole, b) avoids intervention and c) is not in a hazard or on a putting green. The ball may be cleaned when lifted.”
This Local Rule was in effect for the Open Championship and was the reason for the relief. This Local Rule is becoming more and more popular as closely mown aprons making the putter a viable option are becoming more and more popular at golf courses and championships.
August 7th, 2011 at 4:28 am
Chuck Millard writes:
Will you please explain the difference between Rule 18-3b and 18-4. Both require replacing the ball, but 18-3b incurs a penalty while 18-4 does not. I suspect that the difference lies in the distinction between “opponent” and “fellow competitor” – but the difference eludes me.
August 11th, 2011 at 9:18 am
Jeff writes:
Qurstion: On the green, Player A is away and will be putting. Player B places a club or other equipment behind the hole and removes the flagstick. Player A makes his putt too hard and the ball is going to contact the club/equipment previously laid on the putting surface behind the hole. Can Player B or others pick up the club/equipment to avoid the contact after the putt has been stroked by Player A, or is it only the flagstick that can be picked up, or neither? It seems this rule was changed a few years ago. Thank you.
August 11th, 2011 at 1:39 pm
Wayne Muto writes:
In a tournament, one player was in the sand trap. He picked up the rake took it with him as he entered the trap and laid the rake down. He did this he said to help speed up play/and convenience to not have to go back and get the rake. Is this a violation? Could this be construed as testing the sand?
August 11th, 2011 at 1:46 pm
Ryan Gregg writes:
Chuck,
The difference is in the form of play. Your opponent is not entitled to move your golf ball without your authority. In stroke play, the fellow-competitor is an outside agency by definition and cannot be penalized for causing your ball at rest to move.
August 11th, 2011 at 3:43 pm
Ryan Gregg writes:
Jeff,
You are correct. This Rule did change in 2006. Before 2006, a player was not entitled to move a removed flagstick that was lying on the ground.
Rule 24-1 gives players authority to remove equipment and a removed flagstick.
August 11th, 2011 at 3:50 pm
Ryan Gregg writes:
Wayne,
Exception to Decision 13-4/0.5 states that placing a rake in the bunker would not be considered testing the condition of the hazard.
August 11th, 2011 at 4:14 pm
The Aged One writes:
Two players in Match Play. Player A tees ball up an inch in front of the tee markers and strokes it left down the the fairway into the tree line leaving not a very good lie. Player B identifies the infraction and states that Player A has lost the hole. Player A says that there is no penalty for being out of the teeing ground in match play and Player B can asked the tee shot to be replayed or not. Is this true?
Presented with this choice, Player B let the shot stand rather than asking for the shot to be replayed and possibly obtaining a better lie for Player A.
August 11th, 2011 at 4:32 pm
Ryan Gregg writes:
The Aged One,
Rule 11-4 states that there is no penalty in match play for playing from outside the teeing ground. However, the opponent may recall the stroke.
August 11th, 2011 at 4:42 pm
Jim writes:
After finishing up on a par 3 I tee’d off on the adjacent par 5. My tee shot landed on the par 3 tee box (previous hole) and came to rest on a tee left in the ground. I thought it was a hoax at first but nobody was is sight. I played the ball as I found it. Is there a penalty?
August 17th, 2011 at 12:58 pm
TK writes:
I am in a hazard (red stakes), the ball is playable but is sitting down in about six inch tall fescues, as I take my backswing (I don’t ground the club) I brush the fescues. Is there a penalty if so how would I proceed?
August 17th, 2011 at 11:24 pm
TK writes:
Your in the middle of the fairway, as you address the ball you cause it to move 1/4 inch but the ball moves back to its original position. Is there a penalty?
August 17th, 2011 at 11:34 pm
Ian Cussen writes:
A ball lying in a lateral hazard – red stakes – used to be defined as being in a hazard by lining up the red stakes either side of the ball, but now I’ve been told that it is the contour of the different type of grass/surface defining that edge that determines whether you are in the hazard or not. Is this correct and does this new definition also apply to out of bounds – white stakes?
August 18th, 2011 at 7:43 am
Ryan Gregg writes:
Jim,
Wow! That is a pretty incredible occurrence.
The ball is in play and there is no penalty for playing it off of the tee. The tee is, by definition, a movable obstruction. If you chose to not play the ball off of the tee, you could lift the ball move the tee and drop the ball as described in Rule 24-1.
August 18th, 2011 at 7:52 am
Ryan Gregg writes:
TK,
The Note to Rule 13-4 permits a player to touch grass, a bush or any growing thing within a hazard during address and/or the backward movement of the club for a stroke.
August 18th, 2011 at 7:57 am
Ryan Gregg writes:
TK,
The definition of moved in the Rules of Golf say that the ball has not moved. The ball must come to rest in another location.
August 18th, 2011 at 8:00 am
rick writes:
A tee shot ended up just off the green in an area that had recently been chewed up, dug up by some animal probably searching for grubs or other food. The ball was not embedded, but it was on the ground as the grass had been removed by the animal. It was the only such area in the vicinity. Should the player get GUR relief?
August 19th, 2011 at 8:14 am
Ryan Gregg writes:
Rick,
I would recommend that the player use Rule 3-3 and play two balls and have the Committee decide on whether or not the area is ground under repair. The Note to the definition of a burrowing animal states that A hole made by a non-burrowing animal, such as a dog, is not an abnormal ground condition unless marked or declared as ground under repair.
August 19th, 2011 at 9:28 am
JCTR writes:
A golf “buddy” misses the green by apx. 7 feet (short sided). He wants to putt his ball…but there is a sprinkler head on the line between his ball and the hole. He claims that he gets relief from the sprinkler head because he saw it happen in the Open Championship. Is this correct?
August 19th, 2011 at 9:35 am
Ryan Gregg writes:
JCTR,
Rule 24 in and of itself does not provide relief for obstructions on your line of play.
However, in Appendix I (Section B) there is a local rule relating to Immovable Obstructions Close to a Putting Green that reads:
“Relief from interference by an immovable obstruction may be taken under Rule 24-2. In addition, if a ball lies off the putting green but not in a hazard and an immovable obstruction on or within two club-lengths of the putting green and within two club-lengths of the ball intervenes on the line of play between the ball and the hole, the player may take relief as follows:
The ball must be lifted and dropped at the nearest point to where the ball lay that a) is not nearer the hole, b) avoids intervention and c) is not in a hazard or on a putting green. The ball may be cleaned when lifted.”
This Local Rule is becoming more and more popular as closely mown aprons making the putter a viable option are becoming more and more popular at golf courses and championships. Check the Local Rules prior to playing.
August 19th, 2011 at 9:45 am
Robert Grisnak writes:
The golf ball is driven to an hazard area but it is not out of bounds.
The balls rests near a man made wall that is immovable. Can the player
take a free drop to complete a full swing?
August 20th, 2011 at 10:52 am
Craig P writes:
I teed off and hit the ball into a wooded area; then declared a provisional and hit it down the middle. When I went over to the wooded area, I could see a ball under a fallen limb about 25 feet away. I had no way of identifying it from a distance. Am I required to now go to the ball and identify it or can I simply walk away and proceed with my provisional as if my ball was lost.
August 20th, 2011 at 4:54 pm
Richard Allen writes:
I thought there was a new decision that if you were searching in deep rough for your ball using a club and accidently moved your ball, you could just hit it from where it moved to or drop it as an unplayable lie without penalty. But when I look this up in my 2009 Decisions I find this not to be true; instead it is a two stroke penalty or loss of hole in match play.
August 21st, 2011 at 8:53 am
Ryan Gregg writes:
Robert,
Rule 24-2b states that you are not entitled to relief from an immovable obstruction when your ball lies in a water hazard or lateral water hazard.
August 21st, 2011 at 8:18 pm
Ryan Gregg writes:
Craig,
If you cannot reach the ball to identify it within 5 minutes of beginning to search for it; it is lost. See decision 27/15. You must then proceed with the provisional ball.
August 21st, 2011 at 8:23 pm
Jack writes:
In a recent tournament, I declared my golf ball unfit for play during play of a hole because I thought the cover was broken enough that, according to the Rules of Golf, I shouldn’t have to use it. My playing partner agreed when I asked him if I could without penalty. I finished the hole and went up to a rules official, asking if he thought this ball was unfit. He said no and I was charged two strokes. Should I have been penalized?
August 21st, 2011 at 8:27 pm
Ryan Gregg writes:
Richard,
Rule 18-2 states that when a player causes his ball to move, he is required to replace it, even if it is during search. If it is not replaced he incurs the general penalty under that Rule. The exception that you may be referring to is when a ball is covered by loose impediments or sand in a hazard, for a ball in an obstruction or abnormal ground condition or for a ball believed to be in water in a water hazard. Also see Rule 12-1 (searching).
August 21st, 2011 at 8:32 pm
Ryan Gregg writes:
Jack,
Rule 5-3 gives your marker or fellow-competitor authority to determine whether or not the ball is unfit. Only if there is a dispute as to whether the ball was unfit or not; should the Tournament Official get involved. Unfortunately, you should have not been penalized in this situation.
August 21st, 2011 at 9:01 pm
Kevin Fryer writes:
Greg,
Friend of mine got DQ’d from an event recently under the following scenario: He needed to play a provisional. He turned to a competitor who was about 30ft away and announced he was playing a provisional- the other 2 guys in the group were further away and couldn’t have heard him. Several holes later, round was over, the competitor claims he didn’t hear any announcement of the provisional (several holes ago). They claimed he played a practice ball and was DQ’d. If you intend, and actually do announce “provisional” to a competitor but he doesn’t hear it, have you not complied with the rule. If not your competitor could simply lie and get you penalized in all similar situations. Also- was DQ the proper action assuming he had not signed his card prior to the ruling?
Thanks
Kevin
August 21st, 2011 at 10:46 pm
Ryan Gregg writes:
Kevin,
Decision 27-2a/1.3 describes a situation in which a player intends to play a provisional ball but there is no one present to hear the announcement. The player is considered to have met the requirements of the Rule. I don’t believe the player should have been disqualified. Even if the Committee believed that he had violated Rule 7-2 (practice); it would have been a two stroke penalty, not DQ.
August 22nd, 2011 at 9:30 am
Craig P writes:
Ryan, a follow up because I was not clear; I could have reached the ball and identified it; the intent of the question was whether I was: (i) obligated to identify it once I saw it; or (ii) could I have seen it from a distance, decided that I would rather play my provisional (lying three) than try to hack out the original, and simply declined to go identify it. It was stroke play and no other competitor has seen the ball (or even bothered looking),
August 22nd, 2011 at 4:48 pm
Ryan Gregg writes:
Craig,
Yes, you are obligated to identify your ball. Once you see A BALL that may be your ball you must inspect it. Decision 27-2c/2:
27-2c/2 Ball Believed to Be Original Found; Player Wishes to Ignore It and Continue Play with Provisional Ball
Q. At a par-3 hole, a player plays his tee shot into a heavy thicket. Since his ball may be lost, he hits a provisional ball that comes to rest near the hole. In the circumstances, it is advantageous to the player not to find his original ball. Accordingly, the player does not search for the original ball and walks directly toward his provisional ball. While the player is on his way to his provisional ball, a ball believed to be his original is found. The player is advised that his original ball may have been found. May the player ignore this ball and continue play with the provisional ball?
A. No. The player must inspect the ball that has been found and, if it is the player’s original ball, he must continue play with it (or proceed under the unplayable ball Rule). The provisional ball must be abandoned — Rule 27-2c. See also Decision 27-2b/1.
August 22nd, 2011 at 5:11 pm
Kelly Tague writes:
My club plays a NET match play tourney for the club championship. We had a potential problem come up. One of the matches was all square after 18 and went back to the first hole to continue the match. One player had a pop on the first hole in the original 18 hole format. If the players had tied on the first hole of the play-off, would the player with the pop on the original 18 have still had a pop on the play-off hole? Would a tie on that hole have gone to the player with the pop on that hole originally??
Some of our members contended that once the original 18 holes had been played, there were no more pops and the extra holes were to be played “scratch”. I believe that net is net, and a pop the first time around merits a pop the second time around. Who”s right??
August 23rd, 2011 at 9:48 am
Jim Cowan writes:
Kelly, thank you for your comment. In the playoff that you described, the high handicapper of the match would receive strokes on the same holes as the first time around. So they would “pop” again on the 1st hole. This is one of the reasons that the Handicap System recommends that a club avoid a real high ranking of the 1st hole . . . that it can result in a stroke being awarded too soon in a sudden-death playoff. Thanks again, I hope you had/are having a nice championship. Jim Cowan, Director of Course Rating and Handicapping
August 23rd, 2011 at 10:12 am
Walt Norosky writes:
Guy has a 4 footer. He misses it, and taps down a spike mark that was on his line. Misses the comebacker. Next putt will roll right over were the spike mark was. I contend he should be penalized for improving his lie/line. What’s the decision?
August 23rd, 2011 at 3:52 pm
Ryan Gregg writes:
Walt,
The player would be in violation of Rule 16-1c and would incur a two stroke penalty in stroke play or loss of hole in match play. A player is not allowed to repair damage that might assist him in the subsequent play of the hole. Also see Decision 16-1c/4.
August 23rd, 2011 at 8:19 pm
Dave writes:
A players approach shot imbeds just off the front of the green on the apron. He can lift and clean his ball. But can he fix the pitch mark before he drops the ball?
August 24th, 2011 at 9:45 am
Ryan Gregg writes:
Dave,
Rule 13-2 does not permit a player to remove an irregularity of surface an an area where he will be dropping the ball. See Decision 13-2/10.
August 24th, 2011 at 10:19 am
rick writes:
Jim,
A similar question to Kelly above: In a stroke play net competition a playoff is necessary. Let’s say a 14 is playing a 10. If the first hole to be played is hdcp. #11 does the higher handicap player get a stroke? Or is the 10 played as a 0 for the playoff and the higher hdcp. player only gets strokes on handicap holes 1,2,3,4.
August 24th, 2011 at 4:17 pm
drew writes:
Please help me with decision 24-3b/3.7. If a right handed player were taking relief in the B2 example and the ball ended up in such a place that the only reasonable stroke was with a left handed stroke because the ball was very close to the ob wall, can the player now take relief on the other side of the path as that would be the nearest point of relief for a left hander? And if that relief is possible and he then turned around to play the shot as a right hander and was back on the cart path can he take relief again as turning around presents a new situation? In other words would it be ok by the rules to take relief up to three times from the original situation?
August 24th, 2011 at 4:25 pm
Walt Norosky writes:
Second hole at our course has the cart path on the right side of the fairway. Since the inception of the course, the maintenance crew has veered off the cart path about 80 yards from the blue tees 30 yd right of the cart path( to pass players playing the hole without disturbing them) in between the the oaks creating a track through the trees. This track is not maintained, or marked in any manner. I have always played it down when I end up here. ( all too frequently :(). Recently a player claimed he was entitled to a drop. Is that considered cart damage? ( not marked GIR) The rest of the area looks very similar in nature cause its hardpan. FWIW the lie isn’t usually any different when you drop, the only advantage I see of a drop is possibly a better line for after the drop, to find a better gap.
August 25th, 2011 at 9:02 am
Ryan Gregg writes:
Rick,
Per the USGA’s Handicap Manual: The higher handicapped player receives the full difference in course handicap between the two players; the lower handicapped player plays from scratch. The higher handicapped player then will receive strokes on the hardest handicap allocated holes.
August 25th, 2011 at 10:42 am
Ryan Gregg writes:
Drew,
Yes, your interpretation is accurate. It is reasonable for the player to turn around and play left handed and he would be entitled to take relief for a left-handed stroke. After dropping from the obstruction for that stroke, he decides to turn around and play the stroke right handed; no problem. If he has interference from the obstruction for the right-handed stroke, this is a new situation. The player would then be able to take relief as prescribed in Rule 24-2b for that stroke.
August 25th, 2011 at 10:51 am
Ryan Gregg writes:
Walt,
It is up to the Committee to decide how this area is treated. In most cases, the area would be treated as through the green. It does not meet the definition of obstruction or ground under repair as described.
August 25th, 2011 at 10:56 am
Dave F. writes:
Saw an unusual relief situation Saturday at Johnnie Walker. Thomas Bjorn stepped on his ball in deep rough during a search for his ball. It was hidden beneath shin deep fescue. Said it moved slightly when he stepped on it and he could not know for sure what the original position was. He was granted a free drop which resulted in a very playable lie on the top of the fescue. So he went from an unplayable position to a relatively good lie. Do not understand the ruling? Can you elaborate?
August 27th, 2011 at 8:57 am
Ryan Gregg writes:
Dave,
Since the player did not know the lie or original spot (since he stepped on it), Rule 20-3c applies. He was penalized one stroke under Rule 18-2a.
RULE 20-3c:
c. Spot Not Determinable
If it is impossible to determine the spot where the ball is to be placed or replaced:
(i)through the green, the ball must be dropped as near as possible to the place where it lay but not in a hazard or on a putting green;
Also see Decision 20-3b/5
August 27th, 2011 at 10:01 am
Ian Cussen writes:
A ball lying in a lateral hazard – red stakes – is defined as being in a hazard by lining up the red stakes either side of the ball, but now I’ve been told that it is the contour of the different type of grass/surface defining that edge that determines whether you are in the hazard or not. Is this correct and does this new definition also apply to out of bounds – white stakes? This is my second request for a clarification on this and I would really appreciate an answer. Thank you.
August 28th, 2011 at 11:05 am
Ryan Gregg writes:
Ian,
When the margin of a lateral water hazard is defined by stakes, the stakes are inside the lateral water hazard, and the margin of the hazard is defined by the nearest outside points of the stakes at ground level. Yes, a player should line up the stakes between the ball to determine if the ball is in the hazard.
Decision 26/3 explains how the player should treat an unmarked hazard (no stakes or lines).
Decision 26/2 gives the player direction how to treat a lateral water hazard that has been marked incorrectly and does refer to the natural boundaries of the hazard.
When out of bounds is defined by reference to stakes or a fence or as being beyond stakes or a fence, the out of bounds line is determined by the nearest inside points at ground level of the stakes or fence posts (excluding angled supports).
Natural boundaries is not applicable to out of bounds.
Decisions 33-2a/19 and 20 gives the Committee direction on how to proceed when a boundary stake has been displaced.
Please read all applicable decisions to better understand the treatment of boundaries.
August 30th, 2011 at 8:59 am
Dennis Schaffer writes:
A situation arose in yesterday in an ongoing sroke play tournament. On the second hole my cart partner hit a driver slicing it into the woods and I did the same with a 5 wood. We both hit provisional balls and proceeded to look for our original shots. As we approache the area where I hit my first shot the other player bounded from the cart ran to the only ball we saw and announced that it was his ball. All four of us in gthe foursome continued to look for “my” ball in vain. After a few minutes I declared it lost and hit my provisional. We played the hole out and on the next tee all four of us hit slices near the OB stakes on the right. I found my ball OB and we continued to search for my cart partners ball. I found a ball also OB and as I picked it up realized that it was the ball lost from the previous hole. Since this spot was about 700 yards from the second tee we assumed that my cart partner had played it on the second hole. He when asked about vehemently denied it but could not tell us on the nest few holes what ball he was hitting as he continued to hit it in trouble. As a foursome what should we have done?
September 1st, 2011 at 8:39 am
Ryan Gregg writes:
Dennis,
I would ask the player at the start of the hole to identify his golf ball and mark it, as suggested in Rule 6-5. If there is evidence that the player has played a wrong ball and did not correct it prior to starting play of the next hole they must be disqualified under Rule 15-3. This issue needed to be brought to the Committee so that they could gather the information and make a proper ruling.
September 1st, 2011 at 9:45 am
Nate Pomeroy writes:
Ok, so I’m a PGA Professional- Back “in the day” it used to be ettiquette that a twosome had no standing on a course. Foursomes were the proper way to play the game. A twosome who teed off could not expect a course full of foursomes to allow them to play through. Yet when I see the ettiquette section of the rules today it takes a different tenor. When did this get changed? A foursome who plays in 3 hours and 45 minutes should be expected to let a handfull of twosomes play through? This seems odd to me. Can you expand on this question?
September 6th, 2011 at 9:05 pm
Ryan Gregg writes:
Nate,
The original version of etiquette in the 1899 Rules of Golf simply says “ A single player has no standing, and must always give way to a properly constituted match.”
There is nothing in the etiquette section that has ever given a four-ball match priority over a faster group be it a singles match or a true foursome.
Prior to 2004, it was stated as:
“In the absence of special rules, two-ball matches should have precedence over and be entitled to pass any three-ball or four-ball match, which should invite them through.
A single player has no standing and should give way to a match of any kind.
Any match playing a whole round is entitled to pass a match playing a shorter round.”
Note: that match was italicized in this, meaning it was the defined term and therefore this only really applied to match play. There was no stipulation as to stroke play at all.
September 7th, 2011 at 9:43 am
Otto Crass writes:
In a recent event (I believe it was the Amateur) where a player hit the ball into an unplayble lie. He was granted relief by the official but the closest point of relive was the cart path. He dropped the ball twice and each time it rolled 20 yards down the path and so he hand placed it on the cart path under the supervision of the official. The official then declared the ball “in play” and steped back. Shortly thereafter the ball started to roll down the path and ended up 20 yeards closer to the hole where the official declared the ball in play at that point. My question is “what if the ball had rolled down the path and ended up “out of bounds”. Would the ball have to be placed back on the path with a two stroke pentalty or what?
September 7th, 2011 at 4:29 pm
Ryan Gregg writes:
Otto,
When the player declared the ball unplayable he was penalized one stroke and chose to proceed under Rule 28-1c and drop the ball within two club-lengths of where the ball lay. The cart path happen to be within the two club-length area. He dropped the ball and it rolled more than two club-lengths after striking a part of the course and was required to be redropped under Rule 20-2c. After dropping the second time with the same result the player was required to place the ball at the spot where it struck a part of the course on the second drop. When it was placed and at rest, the ball was in play. When it subsequently moved it was required to be played from where it came to rest since neither wind or gravity is an outside agency. If the ball would have come to rest out of bounds, the player would have been required to return to where his last stroke was played, under penalty of one stroke, and put a ball in play under Rule 20-5. Also see Decision 20-2c/3.5.
September 8th, 2011 at 9:11 am
Richard Allen writes:
I’m confused about how ratings and slope are determined. I normally play at Franklin Canyon from the whites which has a rating of 69.6 and a slope of 127. I just played Tilden with a rating of 68.3 and a slope of 120. Tilden has a number of holes which are very steep uphill to the green situations similar to their famous first hole, while Franklin Canyon has a couple of par threes and a par five that are uphill but not even close in terms of steepness. How does this work?
September 9th, 2011 at 8:49 am
Cathy writes:
During a recent tournament a golfer marked her ball on the green. She was asked to move the marker by another golfer. They all finished putting out without the golfer moving the marker back to the original spot. They proceeded to the next tee and did not realize the error until putting on the following green. Before they turned in the score card, they asked for a ruling. Was she disqualified, or a 2 stroke penalty. She was advised it would be a DQ by a temp rules person as our official rules person was unavailable. We also checked with the club pro who said DQ. She wrote DQ on her card and turned it in. Question, which ruling is correct-and can it be corrected now, if necessary.
September 10th, 2011 at 3:16 pm
bob jones writes:
Is a player allowed to take a rake into the bunker with them before they hit there shot in a match? Or must they hit there shot first,then clean the bunker?
September 10th, 2011 at 4:50 pm
Ryan Gregg writes:
Cathy,
When the player failed to return the ball to its original position and played, she incurred a two stroke penalty under Rule 20-7 (playing from a wrong place). If she was mistakenly disqualified, the committee could reinstate her score with a two stroke penalty before the competition closes under Rule 34-1b. If the competition has closed, no penalties may be rescinded or modified.
September 10th, 2011 at 9:44 pm
Ryan Gregg writes:
Bob,
The player may take a rake into the bunker prior to playing from the bunker under Exception 1 of Rule 13-4. The player is not entitled to rake the bunker until a stroke is made from that bunker and the player must insure that the subsequent raking does breach Rule 13-2. Also see Decision 13-4/0.5.
September 10th, 2011 at 9:49 pm
Carol Morgan writes:
In a 36 hole match-play competition, is it permitted to caddy for a player for the first 18 holes and then act as referee for the same match throughout the last 18?
September 12th, 2011 at 5:16 am
Jim Cowan writes:
Richard Allen, thank you for your comment. Slope does NOT refer to the hills and dales on a golf course. Instead it is an attempt to tell you how difficult that set of tees play for a high handicapper versus the low handicapper. Or, to put it another way, how much of the trouble tends to gang up on the higher handicapper. The higher the Slope Rating, the greater the relative difficulty for the high handicapper versus low. Here is a link to a column on the subject of Slope. http://www.ncga.org/2007/06/18/an-explanation-of-slope/ Thanks again – Jim Cowan, Director of Course Rating and Handicapping
September 12th, 2011 at 7:45 pm
Ryan Gregg writes:
Carol,
Yes, a person may caddie for a player and then act as the referee during the match. There is nothing in the Rules that prohibit such action. A player may hire and fire a caddie at anytime. The Committee is responsible for assigning the Referee for the match and they may do so as they see fit.
September 12th, 2011 at 8:37 pm
Lucille writes:
You hit your ball across a water hazard. It lands on the green side of the hazard, bounces across the rough which is beside the green, and comes to rest in a lateral hazard, which is an extention of the water hazard. What is the ruling?
September 14th, 2011 at 4:45 pm
Ryan Gregg writes:
Lucille,
It is most important to know where the ball last crossed the margin of the hazard. If it last crossed the margin of a lateral water hazard then the options for a lateral water hazard are available to the player.
September 15th, 2011 at 9:33 am
Charles Barca writes:
Player hits tee shot (par 3) into tree and the ball does not fall to the ground. Although a ball is visable it is not identified. All players are virtually certain the ball remained up in the tree. Player drops under the tree and eventually holes out. No significant advantage was gained by the player having dropped in a wrong place. What is the total number of penalty strokes incurred?
Thank you.
September 17th, 2011 at 10:01 am
Jon Tammel writes:
Match Play. A&B are playing a match. On a par 4 hole which neither player receives a stroke. Player A is 30-feet from the hole lying 3. Player B is 10 feet from the hole lying 6. Player B concedes the hole to Player A.
Question: What do you record on the score card for both Player A and B?
Reference: reference rule 2-4 and 4-1
September 18th, 2011 at 7:32 am
Doug Crippen writes:
I have a question regarding play from the sand or bunker in an NCGA sanction Tournament play. A player’s ball is lying in the sand in a bunker. The player picks up the rake when entering the bunker to hit the ball. The rake is dropped or placed in the sand while the player addresses and hits their ball. Then the player picks up the rake and rakes the sand. Did the player test the sand when placing the rake in the sand before hitting the ball? Is this a penalty?
September 18th, 2011 at 10:25 am
Ryan Gregg writes:
Charles,
If the ball is not found within five minutes of beginning to search, it is lost. If the player was unable to identify the ball as his in the tree, the ball is lost and the player must return to the tee and proceed under Rule 27-1. See Decision 27/15. Since the player dropped under the tree without identifying the ball in the tree he played from a wrong place, serious breach, under Rule 20-7 and was required to correct the error by playing from the teeing ground. If he plays from the next tee without correcting the error, he is disqualified.
September 18th, 2011 at 5:53 pm
Ryan Gregg writes:
Jon,
For result purposes: Player A – 4, Player B – 6. For posting purposes, Both players must post the score they most likely would have made not to exceed Equatable Stroke Control. Player A 5, Player B 8. See USGA Handicap Manual Section 4-1.
September 18th, 2011 at 6:00 pm
Ryan Gregg writes:
Doug,
The player may take a rake into the bunker prior to playing from the bunker, without penalty, under Exception 1 of Rule 13-4. The player is not entitled to rake the bunker until after a stroke is made from that bunker and the player must insure that the subsequent raking does breach Rule 13-2 in relation to the ball. Also see Decision 13-4/0.5
September 18th, 2011 at 6:06 pm
Charles Barca writes:
Follow up to scenario described to you on 9/17/11: as per Rule 27-7c note 1, how is a significant advantage gained? I determined that competitor did not gain such. Was I in error? And IF no significant advantage had been gained, was there a total of four penalty strokes incured?
September 19th, 2011 at 4:41 pm
Ryan Gregg writes:
Charles,
Since the ball was not found and identified within five minutes of beginning search, it was lost. The player was required to proceed under Rule 27-1 and under penalty of one stroke, play a ball as nearly as possible at the spot from which the original ball was last played (see Rule 20-5). By dropping and playing a ball from up by the green, the player gained a significant advantage of distance and was in violation of Rule 20-7. IF, for some reason, the player was not in a serious breach of Rule 20-7. The player would have received a two stroke penalty added to their score under the applicable Rule (Rule 27-1) and a one stroke penalty under Rule 27-1.
Under the Rules, this player has a serious breach of Rule 20-7 and would be disqualified if they were to play from the next tee. However, since you (The Committee?) have let him proceed in this manner he would not be subject to disqualification after the competition has closed. See Rule 34-1.
September 19th, 2011 at 8:14 pm
John Mohar writes:
Can my opponent mark my ball on the green without my permission, to speed up play?
September 20th, 2011 at 7:54 pm
Ryan Gregg writes:
John,
Your opponent in match play may not mark you ball without penalty. The opponent would be penalized one stroke under Rule 18-3.
September 21st, 2011 at 8:43 am
Barry Smithurst writes:
In the rules of golf, at the end of rule 27-1, it states “PENALTY FOR BREACH OF RULE 27-1:
Match play – Loss of hole; Stroke play – Two strokes”
Does this mean that instead of returning to the spot nearest to where the ball was last hit, I can drop a ball as near to where it was last known to be and take a two stroke penalty?
September 22nd, 2011 at 12:53 am
Ryan Gregg writes:
No. A player would be disqualified for a serious breach of Rule 20-7 if he were to drop a ball near where a ball was lost. The General Penalty occurs when a player returns to the spot from where the last stoke was played and plays from a wrong place without a serious breach.
September 22nd, 2011 at 2:11 pm
Carol Morgan writes:
If your own ball makes a pitch mark on the green, but then your ball spins back and comes to rest off the green are you allowed to repair that pitch mark? There is a debate at our club about Rule 16-1.c.
Some members are saying: No, the pitch mark cannot be repaired.
some: You can ask somebody else to repair it
But I believe that under the said rule: as long as you state your intentions you can repair the pitchmark yourself.
Could you please clarify the correct procedure.
September 25th, 2011 at 12:23 pm
Ryan Gregg writes:
Carol,
Rule 16-1c allows a player fix either ball marks or old hole plugs on the putting green at any time. Even if it is on the players line of play or line of putt.
September 25th, 2011 at 5:22 pm
Gary Sakaguchi writes:
We’re having a debate about advice and if it’s allowed between two teammates on a jr high golf team playing another school.
Situation:
1) Golf match between two Jr. High School teams.
2) Each team has six golfers.
3) Three groups with two golfers from each school.
4) Scoring is the total of the best five scores from the six golfers.
5) The competition is stroke play.
6) Team only scoring, there isn’t any individual awards.
Can the two teammates in a group give advice to each other?
September 26th, 2011 at 5:49 pm
Ryan Gregg writes:
Gary,
The players may not give advice to one another. See Decisions 8-1/21 and 8-1/22.
September 26th, 2011 at 8:16 pm
drew writes:
I hit my tee shot into a green side bunker. My next shot is a very low line drive that buries into the face of the bunker and is unplayable. Is there any option under Rule 28 that could get me out of the bunker with a one stroke penalty for my next shot?
September 27th, 2011 at 4:54 pm
Ryan Gregg writes:
Drew,
No. There is no Rule that will allow you to drop outside the bunker.
Your ball, by definition, is deemed to lie in the bunker. All of your options under Ball Unplayable (Rule 28) will require you to drop a ball in the bunker.
September 28th, 2011 at 8:39 am
J C writes:
When putting or chipping from off the green can you repair ball marks and remove loose impediments?
September 28th, 2011 at 7:34 pm
Ryan Gregg writes:
JC,
The player may fix ball marks and old hole plugs on the putting green at anytime per Rule 16-1. The player may move loose impediments per Rule 23-1. However, the player should insure that the ball is not moved in the process.
September 29th, 2011 at 8:06 am
John Jordan writes:
My ball is on the green and I have marked it. But I have not picked it up. I am not in the act of picking it up. I have left my ball to assess the putt. My ball now rolls away due to terrain or wind. Since my ball was marked do I replace it or putt from the new position?
Thank you.
September 30th, 2011 at 2:26 pm
Ryan Gregg writes:
John,
The ball was in play and wind or gravity is not an outside agency. The ball must be played from where it came to rest. The ball marker is there to allow you to get your hand on the ball without penalty. See Decision 20-4/1 and 18-1/12.
September 30th, 2011 at 2:33 pm
drew writes:
I have seen many times on tv, pro players who have a short putt which they miss. In frustration or disgust or both, they tap down something on the line of the putt they had just made, then tap in the missed putt. I strongly suspect that the tapping which was done was a spike mark or something other than an old hole plug or ball mark. Why is there no penalty? Is it because the tapping was not on the line of the next putt? Or does everyone assume the tapping was on a ball mark?
October 2nd, 2011 at 8:21 am
Ryan Gregg writes:
Drew,
The line of putt ends at the hole. When the player taps down any other damage to the putting green that is not a ball mark or old hole plug they must insure that it does not assist them in the subsequent play of the hole. See Rule 16-1c.
October 3rd, 2011 at 12:44 pm
Steve writes:
There has been sudden interest in the old club “SuperStick”. The rules talk about altering a club while on the course, but this clubs purpose is to be altered as a standard use of the club. You are not altering the intended use or the loft of this club beyond what it is designed to be used for.
The assumption is by many that this rule would place this club in violation of the rules because of any alteration. The question is; does it actually violate the rules for the reasons I stated or could it be considered a legal club at least for normal play where a score is kept and posted?
October 3rd, 2011 at 1:36 pm
drew writes:
An 8 foot section of chain link fence that is normally upright and serves as the ob boundary of the course has fallen onto the ground and onto the course. A player’s ball ends up on top of the fence section. In this scenario does the player get relief from the fence section under Rule 24?
October 3rd, 2011 at 2:15 pm
Ryan Gregg writes:
Steve,
The SuperStick is not a legal club under the Rules of Golf because it may be adjusted easily (without a tool). See Appendix II of the Rules of Golf. If this club is used during a round, it should not be posted because it is not played under the Rules of Golf. See Rule 5-1f of the USGA Handicap Manual.
October 3rd, 2011 at 3:25 pm
Ryan Gregg writes:
Drew,
If the portion of the fence is completely detached from the rest of the boundary fence, the player may proceed under Rule 24-1 or 24-2. Otherwise, the fence would still be considered marking the boundary and Decision 24/4 would apply.
October 3rd, 2011 at 3:51 pm
ed writes:
I find 23-1 and 18-2 to only confuse this situation: Is there a penalty when a player’s ball is just an inch or so off the green and in brushing away loose impediments on the green the player accidentally moves his ball.?
October 5th, 2011 at 11:32 am
Ryan Gregg writes:
Ed,
The second paragraph of Rule 23-1 states that if the ball lies anywhere other than on the putting green and the removal of a loose impediment by the player causes the ball to move, Rule 18-2a applies. The player would be penalized one stroke under Rule 18-2a for moving the ball when attempting to remove a loose impediment because the ball did not lie on the putting green.
October 5th, 2011 at 1:24 pm
Phillip Sexton writes:
A players ball is on the left side of the cart path, Also there is a lateral water hazard left of the cart path. The hazard stakes (no line) are about 6 to 8 inches from the cart path. Would a player try to determine his nearest point of relief, even though he would be standing inside the margin of the hazard and it would be difficult to determine the one club lenght and maintain total relief. Or could he go to the right side where is clear he could take total relief.
Phil Sexton
October 11th, 2011 at 9:08 am
Ryan Gregg writes:
Phil,
If the player can get complete relief on the side that would require him to stand in the hazard, he must drop on that side. If complete relief is not possible on the lateral water hazard side, he must drop on the other side of the cart path. See definition of nearest point of relief and Rule 24-2. Decision 24-2b/3.5 may also be helpful.
October 11th, 2011 at 9:20 am
Rick G. writes:
Playing a par 3, my tee shot entered a red-staked water hazard at a point approximately 10 yards from the pin. My playing partners all insisted that I had to hit my next shot from either the drop area or the tee, both of which were over 130 yds from the pin. I believe that I could have played my next shot where it entered the hazard. A short chip from the pin. I felt cheated. Are drop areas ever mandatory? I wouldnt think that they supercede USGA rules.
October 11th, 2011 at 8:08 pm
Ryan Gregg writes:
Rick,
Under Rule 26-1 you had the option of dropping within two club-lengths of the point where your ball last crossed the margin of the lateral water hazard. A dropping zone is normally an additional option to the other options available under the Rules. In special circumstances dropping zones may be made mandatory by the Committee. For example, the PGA will occasionally require a player to use a mandatory dropping zone for a ball in a grandstand.
October 12th, 2011 at 8:30 am
ted case writes:
In two similar instances this year I witnessed golfers hit low hooks off an opponents golf cart that were parked in unsafe locations in front of the players. One blew a nice fist sized hole through the plexiglass.
In reading rules 19.1 through 19.4 it appears the golfer has two options in match play. 1) Playing the deflected ball as it lies, or 2)canceling the stroke and replaying the shot as close to where the previous shot was taken.
However, it seems like the golfer only has the one option of playing the ball as it lies in stroke play? Why wouldn’t these two rulings be the same since the ball was deflected by a competitor’s equipment in both cases? Aside from the fact that both were terrible shots and only serve as a warning to stay well behind these two players.
ted
October 12th, 2011 at 1:41 pm
Ryan Gregg writes:
Ted,
In stroke play a fellow-competitor is an outside agency by definition. Rule 19-1 would apply. In stroke play the competitor is playing against everyone in the field. So the fellow-competitor’s equipment should have the same relationship as everyone else’s equipment. Remember, the player could have asked to have the cart moved before playing. In match play, the opponent is not an outside agency and Rule 19-3 applies. Since the player and opponent are only competing against one another in the same group, the player is given the option of how they wish to proceed.
October 12th, 2011 at 2:40 pm
James McCrary writes:
In a scramble format, when adding up scores, you find an different count on one hole between the two score cards being kept.
Going back in your minds, one player says they are “pretty sure” about the strokes, another says they are not sure, and another says they don’t remember. The “A” player makes the call to correct to the “pretty sure” player’s. After all players have signed the score card and after the awards banquet, the player who originally said that they weren’t sure, claims that “now they remember”, and the score was higher.
Is this a DQ?
October 14th, 2011 at 9:09 am
George Senn writes:
What are my options for taking relief from a red-staked hazard? My reading of the rules suggests that I may go back and rehit from the spot from which the original ball was played, or drop a ball within two club-lengths, not nearer the hole at the point where the original ball crossed the margin of the lateral hazard, or go to a point on the opposite margin of the hazard. My playing partner says that I also can go back as far as I want, keeping the point where the ball crossed the hazard in line with the pin! I say that option only applies to yellow-staked hazards. The rule book says hazards are marked red because it is impractical to go back keeping the ball in line with the margin of the hazard and the pin! In short, can you go back as mentioned above when in a lateral water hazard? Thanks!
October 15th, 2011 at 12:30 pm
Roxanne writes:
While on the green, and on two different occasions, a player became agitated after other players, who were “away”, putted immediately after he had putted. He relayed after both incidents (although he had been 10ft. or more from the cup) that he had the “right” to follow his ball.
Normally this is not an issue as most players state they would like to finish and are usually inches from the hole.
Is there a rule for continuous putting or is it just a courtesy initiated to increase the pace of play?
October 16th, 2011 at 7:51 pm
Ryan Gregg writes:
James,
Rule 6-6 states that when a player signs for a higher score, that score must count. If the score was lower than actually taken the team is disqualified. As to the discovery after the competition had closed, see Rule 34-1. From the information you have given it sounds like the committee acted correctly. No alterations to the score card may be made after the card has been returned to the committee.
October 17th, 2011 at 8:57 am
Ryan Gregg writes:
George,
Yes, the options of a water hazard are also available for a lateral water hazard. In most cases, the options of a water hazard are not available and that is why the committee would choose to mark it as a lateral hazard.
October 17th, 2011 at 9:00 am
Ryan Gregg writes:
Roxanne,
Continuous putting is permitted in stroke play only. There is no penalty for playing out of turn in stroke play. See Rule 10-2b.
October 17th, 2011 at 9:02 am
eric young writes:
My ball lies in a water hazard containing plants, small weeds and tall weeds behind me. I take some practice swings in the hazard brushing the weeds and plants and hitting the tall weeds behind me. For the sake of argument, I did not ground my club, move any loose impediments or break anything off the weeds and plants. Am I considered to be testing the area of my intended swing or is that just a subjective issue that could have varied opinions from different players?
October 18th, 2011 at 6:21 am
Ryan Gregg writes:
Eric,
The Note to Rule 13-4 permits you to touch grass, bush, tree or other growing things in the hazard without penalty. This is not a subjective issue. The player is still penalized if the actions violate Rule 13-2.
October 18th, 2011 at 9:17 am
Tim writes:
I have a ball in play next to an OB fence and behind a pole that is inside the OB fence holding up a net above the OB fence. Both the fence and the pole interfere with the golf swing. I know you do not get relief from an OB fence but what about the pole holding up a net above the OB fence?
October 18th, 2011 at 10:27 am
Ryan Gregg writes:
Tim,
If the pole is not marking the out of bounds, the pole is an obstruction by definition and you are entitled to relief as prescribed in Rule 24-2. Also see Decision 24-2b/6.
October 18th, 2011 at 11:02 am
Juanita writes:
In the course that I play, the cart path goes over a creek. A golfer plays his approach shot to the green but slices that the ball hits the edge of the cart by the green and dribbles down until the ball stops rolling on the middle of the path just where it crosses the creek. Both sides of the cart path going back to the green is considered part of the creek’s banks and is vegetated. How does the golfer drop to get relief?
October 20th, 2011 at 5:17 pm
Ryan Gregg writes:
Juanita,
From you description, it seems that the cart path is inside a water hazard. The player would not be entitled to relief from the cart path. The player may either play the ball as it lies or proceed under the options prescribed in Rule 26. If, for some reason, the cart path is not considered in the hazard, the player would determine the nearest point of relief and drop within one club-length of that spot as prescribed in Rule 24-2. it may require a drop in the vegitation. The nearest point of relief is not the “nicest” pooint of releif. The player should always consider where they may have to drop prior to picking up the ball.
October 21st, 2011 at 8:09 am
Erik writes:
I drove my ball into a fairway bunker. It is clearly a bunker, but very poorly maintained and there are small patches of grass growing within it. I do not ground my club, but in the process of my back swing, I graze my club on the top of one of these clumps of grass, continue my stroke and hit the ball. What is the penalty if any?
October 21st, 2011 at 2:54 pm
Ryan Gregg writes:
Erik,
There is no penalty.
The Note to Rule 13-4 allows you to touch with a club or otherwise, any obstuction, any construction decalared by the committee to be an integral part of the course or any grass, bush,or any other growing thing when your ball lies in a bunker or water hazard.
October 21st, 2011 at 7:02 pm
Ken M writes:
A player hits his shot into a deep greenside bunker. He enters the bunker with his club and the rake. He places the rake in the sand behind himself and proceeds to hit the bunker shot. Failing to get out with his first shot, he returns to the rake and taps his club on the rake saeveral times to remove excess sand from the club face. Does he receive a penalty for striking the rake, which he placed in the bunker, with his club.
Thank you.
October 23rd, 2011 at 4:34 pm
Ryan Gregg writes:
Ken,
There is no penalty. The players actions did not do anything that would constitute testing the condition of the bunker. See exception 1 to Rule 13-4 and Decision 13-4/0.5.
October 24th, 2011 at 10:55 am
Carol Morgan writes:
In a greensomes foursomes match play game a player from one pairing lifted his ball from the semi-rough and proceeded to clean it.(Local Rules permitted lifting and cleaning a plugged ball in the rough and Preferred Lies were in force)
The opposing pair claimed the hole.
What is the ruling?
October 25th, 2011 at 8:02 am
Carol Morgan writes:
Again, a greensomes foursomes match-play game; all players (playersA/B and players C/D)have teed off. Player A/B decide to play A,s ball from the fairway and lift B’s which is in the rough.
Players C/D are in a similar situation with C’s in the fairway but with a longer drive D’s is in the rough. On inspection to see which ball to play they realise that their opponents have picked up the wrong ball when they lifted from the rough.
What is the ruling
October 25th, 2011 at 8:20 am
Ryan Gregg writes:
Carol,
If the ball was embedded, there is no penalty for lifting and cleaning the ball since the Local Rule was in effect. The claim should be denied and the result of the hole should stand. If the ball was not embedded, the player would receive a one stroke penalty under Rule 21. The player is required to replace the ball, otherwise it is a loss of hole penalty under Rule 18-2a.
October 25th, 2011 at 8:42 am
Ryan Gregg writes:
Carol,
I am confused on who lifted which ball. See Rule 18 for moving a ball in play.
October 25th, 2011 at 8:44 am
ed writes:
With the new rules changes regarding a ball moved by the wind after the club has been grounded on the green, what would be the ruling if after addressing the ball on the green, the ball is moved by the wind and then is stopped or deflected slightly by the head of the putter?
October 25th, 2011 at 4:00 pm
Carol Morgan writes:
Ryan,
Apologies, I did not explain clearly.
Players C/D had to play first and decided to play C’s ball – they lifted what they believed to be Player D’s ball from the rough.
When Players A/B approached their balls to decide which to play it was realised that B’s ball had in fact been lifted by C/D
October 26th, 2011 at 3:14 am
Ryan Gregg writes:
Ed,
The revised decision 18-2b/12 adresses this issue.
18-2b/12
Ball Moves After Address and Is Stopped by Player’s Club
Q. After a player addresses his ball, the ball moves backward. Before the player can remove his club, the ball is stopped by the clubhead. What is theruling?
A. The player incurs a penalty stroke under Rule 18-2b and the ball must be replaced. A further penalty under Rule 19-2 (Ball in Motion Deflected or Stopped by Player) does not apply in these circumstances, as the act of his clubhead stopping the ball was related to the initial act of his ball moving after address – see Principle 4 of Decision 1-4/12. If it is known or virtually certain that the player did not cause the ball to move, Rule 18-2b does not apply (see Exception to Rule 18-2b). In such circumstances, the player would incur a one-stroke penalty under Rule 19-2 for accidentally deflecting or stopping his ball in motion with his equipment,and must play the ball as it lies. (Revised)
October 26th, 2011 at 8:06 am
Ryan Gregg writes:
Carol,
Since this is match play. The team C/D receive a one stroke penalty under Rule 18-3 for lifting an opponents ball without authority.
October 26th, 2011 at 8:08 am
Michael Miller writes:
Just a few minutes ago during the Asia Pacific Classic, Jeff Overton hit his putt to the hole and it hung on the lip. The announcers said he has 10 seconds to wait for it to drop. During this time they also stated that, as he was walking around the ball, they also said that he must also make sure to let his shadow cross the ball as this would be interference. Is this true…his shadow?
October 28th, 2011 at 3:07 pm
Ryan Gregg writes:
Michael,
Casting a shadow on the ball is not a penalty. See Decision 16-2/3.
October 29th, 2011 at 9:55 am
Drew writes:
With the 2012 rules in mind would there be a penalty if a player whose ball is in one greenside bunker raked the sand in another bunker that was on the opposite side of the green? He could say he was tidying up the course, but he probably was making sure he had a good lie should his shot from the first bunker end up in the other one.
Ruling?
November 2nd, 2011 at 6:27 pm
Ed Tatarian writes:
Under the new rule, if a player addresses his ball on the green and the wind starts it moving and it rolls into a water hazzard in front of the green, what are the options.
November 3rd, 2011 at 6:22 am
Ryan Gregg writes:
Drew,
It is my understanding that if a player is raking a bunker for the sole purpose of caring for the course, he will not be penalized. If the player is raking the bunker for the purpopse of influencing the lie of the ball for his subsequent stroke, the player is in breach of Rule 1-2 for taking action with the intent to affect the playing of the hole by altering the physical conditions.
November 3rd, 2011 at 7:13 am
Ryan Gregg writes:
Ed,
Under the 2012 Rules of Golf, if the ball is moved by wind after the player has addressed it, the ball is to be played from where it came to rest without penalty. If it rolls into a water hazard, the player would proceed under the options prescribed in Rule 26. If it is a water hazard, he may elect to drop behind the hazard or return to where he last played a stroke and drop a ball at that spot under stroke and distance.
November 3rd, 2011 at 7:19 am
mike logan writes:
a players ball comes to rest inside a burrowing animal hole that is next to a lateral hazard. the ball is also resting on the side of a man made bridge crossing the hazard the burrowing hole is out side the hazard but the ball is resting on the side of the bridge that is marked with red paint. if it had not been for the burrowing hole the ball could have been hit.
thanks for your help
November 7th, 2011 at 12:09 pm
Ryan Gregg writes:
Mike,
Decision 26/1.5 states that the ball is deemed to lie in the water hazard and the player must proceed under his options as prescribed in Rule 26 (Water Hazards). He is not entitled to relief under Rule 25 (Abnormal Ground Conditions).
November 7th, 2011 at 12:32 pm
Drew writes:
Is the new decisions book available yet?
November 13th, 2011 at 9:57 am
Ryan Gregg writes:
Drew,
The 2012-2015 Rules of Golf and 2012-2013 Decisions on The Rules of Golf will be available after the first of December.
November 13th, 2011 at 8:37 pm
Darrel Bridges writes:
A player in a tournament playing in a foursome with other competitors is using a yardage measuring device. If one of the other players in the group asks him for yardage obtained by the device, is he bound by rule to do so? Or is giving yardage from your device to an opponent optional?
November 14th, 2011 at 10:38 am
Ryan Gregg writes:
Darrel,
A player is permitted to share distance information with fellow competitors without penalty per Rule 8-1. However, He is not required to do so.
November 14th, 2011 at 11:10 am
Drew writes:
A follow up to Darrel’s question. What penalty would be assessed if it were determined that a player who had ZUVAa distance device intentionally gave wrong distances to his fellow competitors for any reason?
November 17th, 2011 at 8:57 am
Ryan Gregg writes:
Drew,
This issue is not specifically addressed in the Rules of Golf. However, Decision 8-1/9 penalizes a player that purposely makes a false statement about the club he hit to mislead his fellow-competitor. He was penalized two strokes for doing so, under Rule 8-1. I think the same principle would apply. Additionally, The Committee may consider this a serious breach of etiquette and disqualify the player under Rule 33-7.
November 17th, 2011 at 11:18 am
Thomas Robb writes:
Concerning “Standing Astride or on Line of Putt”: A player putts through-the-legs (aka “croquet-style”) but lifts one foot of the ground before he makes the “stroke”. Is this legal?
November 17th, 2011 at 4:26 pm
Ryan Gregg writes:
Thomas,
By definition, the player has taken his stance and that stance is on the extension of line of putt behind the ball. The player would be penalized two strokes in stroke play or a loss of hole in match play for violation of Rule 16-1e. Unless, it was done inadvertently or done to avoid standing on another players line of putt.
November 18th, 2011 at 9:48 am
John Lee writes:
In a recent “buddies” event, one of the players was on the green. He made 3 practice strokes with his putter, and as he was ADDRESSING the ball the putter head caused the ball to move (this is different than the ball moving AFTER the player ADDRESSED the ball). What is the penalty, if any, for both stroke play and match play formats? And how do we proceed–replace ball at original position or play it from the new position?)
November 20th, 2011 at 2:38 pm
Ryan Gregg writes:
John,
Rule 18-2 applies and the player incurs a one stroke penalty in both match play and stroke play. The ball must be replaced.
November 21st, 2011 at 9:02 am
The big Bamboo writes:
Mr. “Rules Expert” (used quite loosely),
What is the ruling? It occurs after the player arrives at his tee shot on hole #11.
A player has interference with a cart path and drops a ball under R 24-2. The ball rolls into a condition covered by R 20-2c. He re-drops and the ball rolls, again, into a condition covered by R 20-2c. R 20-2c reads that the player is to place the ball as near as possible to the spot where it first struck a part of the course when re-dropped. What happens if the player doesn’t know the spot and thinks he should drop it as per R 20-3c rather than places the ball as required. Most players, if they don’t know the spot, will drop it rather than place it. This comes to the attention of the Committee when the player is putting out on #11.
Sincerely,
The Big Bamboo
November 21st, 2011 at 3:16 pm
Ryan Gregg writes:
Big Bamboo,
The player incurs a penalty of loss of hole in match play or two strokes in stroke play for playing from the wrong place (Rule 20-2c and Rule 20-7), but there is no additional penalty in stroke play for dropping the ball when Rule 20-2c required it to be placed.
November 21st, 2011 at 5:00 pm
Big Bamboo writes:
Thank you. However, if the player says he was operating under R 20-3c how can he be penalized? He doesn’t know that exact spot. Does it read anywhere in the book that R 20-2c supersedes 20-3c?
Cheers,
Big Bamboo
November 24th, 2011 at 5:55 am
Drew writes:
A player’s momentarily excellent tee shot caroms off an overhead power line (virtual certainty) and ends up out of bounds. The player and the other members of the group are not sure if a local rule is in effect which would cancel the shot and require a second tee shot without penalty. Which of the following is the correct procedure?
1. Without saying anything the player again hits from the tee. When he gets to the green he says that there may be a local rule that allows the second shot to be without penalty and he will find out when he gets done with the round.
2. The player, not sure of procedure, says he will play two balls under 3-3, one for a cancelled shot because of the wire, one for an OB ball if the rule is not in effect.
3. The player, not sure of procedure, says he wants a ruling under 3-3 but will play just one second tee shot since both balls would be played from the same place and he will get a ruling after the round.
(I think all three are ok???)
November 24th, 2011 at 11:51 am
Ryan Gregg writes:
Big Bamboo,
The player is operating under Rule 20-2c when he re-drops. The procedure requires the ball to be placed as near as possible. The fact that the player did not know the spot does not let him drop a third time. See Decision 2-2c/2.
November 25th, 2011 at 7:52 am
Ryan Gregg writes:
Drew,
I agree with you. The player could do all three options without being penalized.
November 25th, 2011 at 8:05 am
Ed writes:
Under the new rules for next year, am I reading Rule 12 correctly when it says a player who is searching for his ball in a hazard or through the green and the ball happens to be buried in a pile of leaves, that the player gets a one stroke penalty if the ball should be caused to move during the search? Other than don’t hit the ball there, how is a player to proceed to search for his ball that is almost certainly in a pile of leaves?
November 27th, 2011 at 10:27 am
Ryan Gregg writes:
Ed,
The player may move as many leaves that will allow him to see a ball. Once a ball is found, the player may use the procedure outlined in Rule 12-2 for identification. The Rule was changed to be the same procedure for a ball that lies through the green.The player just needs to be careful when moving loose impediments when searching for his ball in a hazard as he would be when searching for his ball through the green.
November 28th, 2011 at 9:35 am
Ed writes:
Hi again,
Just to be sure I’ve got it right: the new rule takes away the no penalty sentence for moving the ball when probing for a ball believed to be covered by loose impediments. Probing and moving is ok only when the ball is believed to buried in sand. Is that correct?
November 28th, 2011 at 10:37 am
Ryan Gregg writes:
Ed,
If the player moves the ball while moving loose impediments in a hazard while searching he will incur a one stroke penalty under Rule 18-2. You are correct, there is no penalty for causing the ball to move if searching for the ball covered by sand anywhere on the course. The lie must be re-created. Also, the player is not penalized if the ball is moved when probing in water in a water hazard.
November 28th, 2011 at 10:55 am
Dan Maglionico writes:
Decision 13-2/8 Players Lie or Line of Play Affected by Pitch Mark Made by Partner’s Opponent’s or Fellow-Competitor’s Ball
Q. A player’s lie or line of play through the green is affected by a pitch-mark made by his partner’s, his opponent’s or a fellow competitor’s ball . Is the player entitled to relief?
A. If the pitch-mark was there before the player’s ball came to rest, he is not entitled to relief without penalty. If the pitch-mark was created after the player’s ball came to rest, in equity (rule 1-4), he may repair the pitch-mark. A player is entitled to the lie which his stroke gave him.
Does this apply to a ball not on the green (through the green)but the pitch mark is on the green (not through the green)?
In other words if my ball is in the fringe, fairway, or rough, can I fix a pitch mark on the green before I chip to the green?
December 1st, 2011 at 4:51 pm
Ryan Gregg writes:
Dan,
You may always fix a ball mark or old hole plug on the putting green regardless if your ball is on the green (Rule 16-1c). You are not allowed to fix ball marks that are through the green when your ball lies through the green unless they were created after your ball had come to rest per Decision 13-2/8.
December 2nd, 2011 at 9:30 am
John O'Shaughnessy writes:
My ball was in a lateral hazard but when taking a normal stance my left foot was on the cart path that ran parallel to the hazard. I played the ball as it lied, but was I entitled to drop the ball within the hazard to get relief from the path?
December 5th, 2011 at 9:31 am
Ryan Gregg writes:
John,
Rule 24-2b states that when your ball lies in a water hazard or lateral water hazard you are not entitled to releif for an immovable obstruction.
December 5th, 2011 at 10:07 am
David Webster writes:
I need help on a ruling! In a recent tournament I found a broken tee on a par three and teed my ball on it. My opponent said I just incurred a two sroke penalty for playing with equipment I did not bring to the first tee. Is this true? If so, can I not rent a cart for the back nine only? Is there no “equity” in the game? Please respond.
David Webster slodavidpaso@aol.com
December 5th, 2011 at 5:24 pm
Ryan Gregg writes:
David,
A tee is not considered equipment in the Rules of Golf. See definition of equipment. Also, a player may borrow or use another player’s equipment(ie, towel, cart, etc). However, they are not permitted to use another player’s clubs (Rule 4). Decision 5-1/5 states that a player may borrow golf balls from another player.
December 5th, 2011 at 5:36 pm
Jeff H. writes:
I was playing on a hole that had a lateral hazard along the left side for half the the hole and then it turns to a white stake (OB) for the remainder of the hole along the left side. Obviously, I had a shot that went left. The question is what is my penalty. My ball appeared to have flown into the hazard above the red stake line, yet there’s no doubt that it ended up in the junk perpendicular to the white staked area. The ball could not be found. There was some disagreement between our foursome of how I would proceed. Should it be considered a lateral hazard, because it’s where the ball first crossed the hazard? Please tell me that’s what it is, because that’s how I played it. Thanks.
December 7th, 2011 at 11:03 am
Ryan Gregg writes:
Jeff,
You may drop from the lateral water hazard if you have knowledge or virtual certainty that the ball is lost in the hazard (Rule 26-1). If the ball may be lost or out of bounds you must proceed under stroke and distance (Rule 27-1). Also see Decision 26-1/7.
From you description, it sounds like the ball was lost out of bounds and that you have dropped and played from a wrong place. Most likely a serious breach of Rule 20-7. The penalty is disqualification.
December 8th, 2011 at 9:30 am
Ed writes:
Dec. 13-2/2 allows a player to eliminate irregularities of the surface whether or not the ball in in play. So, I assume, if a player hit a shot that somehow caromed off a tree or bench and ended up back on the teeing ground the player could press down the grass, etc. before playing his next shot from practically the same place. Correct? Now what if a player is playing hole #2 and ends up on tee box #3, is it still ok to remove irregularities, etc?
December 8th, 2011 at 11:06 am
Ryan Gregg writes:
Ed,
There is only one teeing ground during the play of a hole. Other teeing grounds are considered through the green. No, you would not be able to eliminate irregularities of surface on another teeing ground.
December 8th, 2011 at 11:19 am
Ed writes:
With the changes to Rule 18 is it now penalty free to make a stroke at a ball that is moving after the swing has started and completed assuming the player was not responsible for the movement of the ball?
December 18th, 2011 at 3:35 pm
Ryan Greggq writes:
Ed,
If it is known that the player did not cause the ball to move, the player would not be penalized. The ball would be played from where it came to rest. For example, a big gust of wind moved the ball at the time the player began his stroke. See Decision 18-2b/11.
December 19th, 2011 at 11:28 am
Drew writes:
I skull a wedge over the green and it hits the cart I’m sharing with my partner in a 4-ball game. The cart is moving. If (a) my partner or (b) someone on the other team is driving the cart is there a penalty in either situation?
December 23rd, 2011 at 7:22 pm
Ryan Gregg writes:
Drew,
If the cart is moving and your partner is driving, Rule 19-2 applies. It is a one stroke penalty and you must play the ball as it lies. In stroke play if you ball strikes the moving cart driven by a fellow-competitor Rule 19-1 applies. There is no penalty and the ball is played as it lies.
December 25th, 2011 at 6:29 am
steve writes:
If you are playing a skin’s game on a course with temporary greens; should strokes be given on said holes that are temporary, as the integrity of the hole has been comprimised? Those that receive say they should; as the hole is the same for all players, other state that the hole is considerably easier and no strokes should be given. Also, should all putts be hole out on temporary greens?
Hoping to stop the whinning….
December 25th, 2011 at 9:48 am
Jason writes:
If I am in the center of a fairway, and suddenly a spinkler near my ball turns on, am I required to stand in the cold and wet and hit my ball, or can I get relief from the sprinkler spray?
December 27th, 2011 at 4:41 pm
Jim Cowan writes:
Steve, thank you for your comment. The bottom line is that the club has the final say on the ranking of the holes. And if some temporary tees and/or greens are going to be in use for an extended period of time and they do seriously impact the play of some holes, the club could/should certainly consider altering their ranking. As to your second question, we try to break down temporary greens as follows: if the greens are in good enough shape to support the Rules of Golf (i.e., putting out), we issue temporary ratings to the course to reflect the lost yardage. If the principles of Rules of Golf cannot be supported (i.e., auto two-putts), we say ignore your actual score for such holes and instead insert a score of “par, plus any handicap strokes” you are entitled to on the hole. Under such circumstances you could still post to the normal ratings. Thanks again – Jim Cowan, Director of Course Rating and Handicapping
December 29th, 2011 at 10:31 am
Pat Faeth writes:
This happened in a high school tournament. Player A and Player B have both reached the green in a medal play tournament. Player A is away and is first to putt. Player B marks his ball which happens to be on the opposite side of the hole from Player A. Player A strikes his putt. While the ball is in motion and rolling towards the hole, Player B replaces his ball and removes his mark. Player A’s ball rolls past the hole and strikes Player B’s ball. Is there a penalty? If so, who gets it and why? None of the rules or decisions I found seemed to directly deal with this. Thanks.
January 2nd, 2012 at 12:57 pm
Ryan Gregg writes:
Pat, Your answer answer lies in Decision 16-1b/3:
Ball Lifted from Putting Green; Ball Replaced While Another Ball in Motion Subsequently Deflects Ball
Q.A’s ball comes to rest on the putting green 20 feet from the hole. He marks the position of and lifts his ball so that B, whose ball is also on the putting green, but farther from the hole, can play first. While B’s ball is in motion, A replaces his ball. B’s ball strikes A’s ball. What is the ruling?
A.If A’s action was unintentional (i.e., not for the purpose of deflecting B’s ball), Rule 19-5a applies. There is no penalty to either player since A had lifted his ball and it was not lying on the putting green immediately prior to B’s stroke. A must replace his ball, and B must play his ball as it lies.
If A’s action was for the purpose of deflecting B’s ball, A is in breach of Rule 1-2 (Exerting Influence on Movement of Ball or Altering Physical Conditions). The penalty is loss of hole in match play or two strokes in stroke play, unless the Committee decides to impose a penalty of disqualification – see the penalty statement under Rule 1-2. In stroke play, B must replay his stroke, without penalty – see Note under Rule 19-1. Rule 16-1b does not apply as this Rule deals with the lifting of a ball on a putting green, but not its placement. (Revised)
January 2nd, 2012 at 2:12 pm
Ryan Gregg writes:
Jason,
Unfortunately, you are not entitled to relief from the spray from a sprinkler. If there is enough accumulation of water for there to be casual water, you would be entitled to relief as prescribed in Rule 25-1. Otherwise, you must play the ball as it lies.
January 2nd, 2012 at 2:24 pm
Mike Shivley writes:
A par five has a long defined bunker running down the right hand side of the fairway. The right hand side of the bunker slopes gently into a lake (lateral water hazard) with no clear definition between the bunker and the lake other than red stakes to define the margin of the water hazard. Player hits his second shot over the bunker and into the lake. Assuimg that the player can’t play the ball from the lake must he drop into the bunker (another hazard) or take stroke and distance or may he cross the bunker going no closer to the hole and make his drop. The lake is too wide to take the option of going to the other side of the lake keeping the point of entry between the player and the hole. Thanks!
January 5th, 2012 at 11:43 pm
Don W. writes:
Player A hits the ball to the green on a par three from the tee box landing 3 ft. from the hole. Arriving at the green player a picks up his ball without marking it and puts it in his pocket. Player b,c,d, and e finish the hole. Player a discovers he did not mark his ball but wants to take one stroke and place it where he thinks it was on the green. What is the rule on this?
Thanks
January 6th, 2012 at 8:09 am
Ryan Gregg writes:
Mike,
The player may elect to drop the ball in the bunker wihin two club-lengths from where it last crossed the margin of the lateral water hazard or proceed under Rule 26-1a and play a ball as nearly as possible at the spot from which the original ball was last played. Decision 33-8/37.5 allows a Committee to establish a dropping zone or a series of dropping zones on the fairway side of the bunker so players do not have to drop a ball in the bunker.
January 6th, 2012 at 8:52 am
Ryan Gregg writes:
Don,
The player has incured a one stroke penalty under Rule 20-1 and is required to place the ball back at the spot from which it was lifted.
Spanish
what happens if I hit a ball that rolls into a gopher hole?
January 2nd, 2009 at 8:24 pmBartlett,
A gopher hole is a hole made by a burrowing animal and as such is an abnormal ground condition from which you get free relief under Rule 25. If your ball can be retrieved, you must do so and drop it within one club-length of the nearest point of relief, no nearer the hole. If the ball can not be retrieved, you may drop another ball instead.
January 2nd, 2009 at 8:26 pmOn foggy morning last month, I blocked a tee shot right sending it into the a water hazard. Because of the fog I could not see the ball splash and used the line of the flight off the tee to estimate where the ball entered the hazard. My competitors in the foursome argued it was a lost ball as I did not see it enter the hazard and did not see it splash. Clearly, I had “virtual certainty” that it had, but my playing partners obviously did not. Who is correct? Can you define more precisely “knowledge” and virtual certainty? Thank you.
January 2nd, 2009 at 11:57 pmGregor,
Decision 26-1/1 discusses the meaning of “Known or Virtually Certain.” The following is from that decision:
January 5th, 2009 at 9:16 am“A player may not assume that his ball is in a water hazard simply because there is a possibility that his ball may be in the hazard. If it is not known that the ball is in the water hazard, in order for the player to proceed under Rule 26-1, there must be almost no doubt that the ball is in the hazard. Otherwise, a ball that cannot be found must be considered lost outside the hazard and the player must proceed under Rule 27-1.
All available evidence must be taken into account in determining whether knowledge or virtual certainty exists, including any testimony and the physical conditions in the area around the water hazard. For example, if a water hazard is surrounded by fairway on which a ball could hardly be lost, there exists a greater certainty that the ball is in the hazard than there would be if there were deep rough in the area.”
On a course we play frequently there are areas where burrowing animals have taken up residence. Sometimes there may be 10-20 holes in an area otherwise devoid of grass or any other hiding place for a golf ball. If a ball ends up in such an area and is not found, it is in a hole. In order to use Rule 25.1.c must the player know which single hole the ball dove into or can the player make an educated choice or must the player proceed under Rule 27?
January 5th, 2009 at 11:48 amDan,
January 5th, 2009 at 12:08 pmIf it is known or virtually certain that the ball is lost in one of the burrowing animal holes, you can use Rule 25-1.c. If the burrowing animal holes are close together, the club should probably make the entire area Ground Under Repair so that you could drop outside it.
We checked with the USGA regarding what you should do if the area is not marked. The proper way to take relief depends on the circumstances. If the area is an open field or bare dirt, you should use the hole that is farthest from the hole in determining your relief. If the area is such that there are some places where a player would have an open shot to the green while others would only allow a chip out to the fairway, the player should find an area which was neither the most, nor the least, favorable of the various areas where it was equally possible that the ball originally lay. So, you should find a hole that gives you a shot somewhere near the average of the possible shots and take relief from it. This is consistent with Decision 18-1/5 for a ball that was taken by an outside agency from an unknown spot.
PLAYER A and B ARE IN A STROKE PLAY COMPETITION. ON THE 18TH HOLE BOTH HIT TEE SHOTS. THEN A ,TO TEST a CLUB BELONGING TO B HITS B’S DRIVER NEVER INTENDING TO DO OTHER THAN HIT A PRACTICE SHOT WITH B’S CLUB .IS THIS A BREACH OF 4-4a ,4-4c OR BOTH OR NO BREACH ? IF BREACH IS B DISQUALIFIED ?
IS B ALLOWED TO USE CLUB IN SUBSEQUENT PLAY OF HOLE ?
January 8th, 2009 at 9:42 pmLowell,
Since it was not Player A’s intention to put a ball into play, but merely to hit a practice shot with B’s club, he would be penalized 2 strokes for a violation of Rule 7-2 (Practice during Round) as this type of practice is not allowed. Decision 4-4a/13 says that the borrowing of a club does not breach Rule 4-4a if it was not used to make a stroke that counted in the player’s score. Player B is not penalized in any way and could subsequently use the club.
January 9th, 2009 at 9:22 amHi,player A hit a drive that comes to rest near a bunker. Upon getting closer to the ball, player a is upset that the ball is in the rough after such a nice drive. He slams his club into the ground 5 feet awar from the ball and the ball rolls into the bunker.
Does he get to replace the ball or play it from the bunker.
Regards,
January 9th, 2009 at 3:52 pmElliott
Elliott,
The answer to your question lies in the question of what caused the ball to roll into the bunker. If the facts are such that the player caused the ball to move, he would replace it with a one stroke penalty under Rule 18-2a. If he didn’t cause it to move and no other outside agency did, he would play it from the bunker with no penalty. In the instance you describe, I believe he caused it to move so the ball would need to be replaced and he would be penalized. If he failed to replace it, the penalty would be 2 strokes in stroke play or loss of hole in match play.
January 9th, 2009 at 3:55 pmI hit a shot to the green from a 100 yards that landed short into a bunker. Before I advance to the ball, I decide to declare the ball unplayable (Rule 28-a & one-stroke penalty) because I know it will take me several strokes to get out of the bunker & I’d rather re-hit from where I last played. In the interest of pace of play, may I drop another ball on the spot last played versus walking all the way to the bunker to retrieve the ball and walk all the way back to the spot last played?
January 9th, 2009 at 4:03 pmC.G.
When you choose to use the Stroke and Distance option under any rule (Water Hazard, Lost Ball /Ball OB or Unplayable), you may immediately drop another ball and play it. You do not need to retrieve or even identify your ball. If you chose to use any other option under the unplayable ball rule, you would have to find and identify your ball, but you could drop another ball. Decision 28/1 covers this.
January 9th, 2009 at 4:08 pmRegarding posting unfinished rounds, in your Dec 7 1:36PM response you said “For the purpose of posting, you should determine the number of handicap strokes you would receive on each of the unplayed holes and add that to par for those holes.” How do I determine the “handicap strokes”? Is there a chart that gives the hole-by-hole handicap strokes for my index?
January 12th, 2009 at 1:50 amC.G.,
Every scorecard has a row on it labeled Handicap (some have Men’s and Women’s). Each hole is allocated a handicap number, 1 through 18. The hole with the 1 is the #1 handicap hole, the 2 is the #2 hole etc. A player who is a 1 handicap would get a stroke on the #1 handicap hole. If you were to look at the score card for the NCGA’s Poppy Hills course, you would see that the 15th hole is the #14 handicap, the 16th is #2, the 17th is #18 and the 18th hole is #12. Therefore if a 5 handicap player quit playing after the 14th hole, he would calculate his score for posting by giving himself pars for holes 15, 17 and 18 and a bogey for 16. A 13 handicap would get pars on 15 and 17 and bogies on 16 and 18 and a 30 handicap would get bogies on 15 and 17 and double bogies on 16 and 18. There are many rules covered in the USGA’s Handicap manual on how to allocate these strokes.
January 12th, 2009 at 9:17 amA player hits his ball into a water hazard and decides to drop under option 26-1.b. When he drops the ball it rolls more than 2 club lengths away so he picks up the ball for a re-drop under 20-2.c.(vi). Before he re-drops may he move to a different spot (forward or back) along the line established under 26-1.b?
January 13th, 2009 at 10:46 amDan,
Yes, he can. Decision 20-2c/5 tells us that a player who is required to re-drop cannot change his option, but he can certainly choose another point that meets the option he first selected. If not, Rule 20-2c would need to state that the second drop must be as near as possible to the first drop, which it doesn’t.
January 13th, 2009 at 11:00 amHint for those attending an NCGA Rules Workshop in 2009, remember this answer.
A tournament was played last weekend where our NCGA club started on the back nine and finished on the front nine of the course. There were two players with the same net score. The rules of golf state that, “ties shall be decided over the last nine, last six, last three, or last hole.” Does that mean the last nine holes played or last nine holes on the course scorecard? I say it is about the last nine holes played. Am I right?
January 14th, 2009 at 2:06 pmHank,
Typically it would mean holes 10-18 on the scorecard. I’ve never heard of it being anything else. It would be a good idea for those running the tournament to specify what they mean just to avoid confusion, but without anything else being said, that is how I would interpret it. You really cannot use the last nine holes played as they can be vastly different. As an example, San Jose Country Club is a par 33 on the front 9 and par 37 on the back 9. Or if it was a shotgun start, everyone would have a different set of 9 holes.
January 14th, 2009 at 2:12 pmTee shot lands in fairway bunker. When player hits second shot, the ball drives into the wall of the bunker just above the edge of the sand and is lost in the dense dirt under the rough.
Where would the drop be taken since the ball is no longer in the vertical plane of the bunker’s wall, but it is now under the rough? Is the ball to be dropped in the bunker or on the rough?
January 14th, 2009 at 11:13 pmLance,
January 15th, 2009 at 12:05 pmFirst, since you said the ball is lost in the dense dirt, the ball is lost and you would have to proceed under stroke and distance by dropping at the point in the bunker where you last played from. Assuming you could find the ball and wanted to declare it unplayable, the following applies.
The definition of “bunker” says that a wall or lip of the bunker not covered with grass is a part of the bunker. Therefore the ball entered the ground in the bunker.
Decision 13/4 says that a ball is considered to be in the bunker if it entered the ground in the bunker so your ball is in the bunker, even if it is outside the vertical wall of the bunker. Therefore, if you found and identified the ball and wanted to use options b or c of Rule 28 – Ball Unplayable, you would have to drop it in the bunker.
I had hit a ball on a par 3 to an island green, the ball landed near the front of the green and appeared to stick for the time I was looking at it, I turned around and put my club in my bag and turned back around towards the hole only to see a seagull chasing my ball down the slope and the seagull hit the ball twice with its beak, the ball entered the water. I then saw the seagull enter the water and it appeared that it picked it up and flew off with my ball. I was not sure if the seagull originally pushed my ball or my ball started rolling on its own. However I did see the seagull twice interfere with the roll of the ball. I proceeded under rule 27-1 and hit a ball from the drop zone and two putted and recorded a 5 for my score. Should I have been granted relief where I first saw the seagull interfere per rule 18-1 or is 27-1 the proper ruling. By the way during this time my partner was teeing his ball and only saw the seagull chasing my ball into the water. We also observed other seagulls disturbing other balls that landed on the green that were replaced under rule 18-1
January 18th, 2009 at 8:13 pmLeslie,
The seagull is an outside agency. Since you say your ball was at rest on the putting green when it was moved by the seagull, Rule 18-1 says you should place it at the spot where it was. Since the ball was not immediately recoverable, you may substitute another ball. There is no penalty involved.
January 19th, 2009 at 9:16 amIf your ball had not been at rest, Rule 19-1a would have applied. Normally if your ball in motion is deflected or stopped by an outside agency you would play it as it lies. But, since the seagull was taking action to cause it to continue moving, you should handle as if it ended up in or on a moving animate agency and placed a ball at the point where the gull first made contact with it. Again, if the ball is not recoverable you may substitute and there is no penalty. Decision 19-1/6 covers this.
John,
Maybe a little more clarification is needed. I did not see whether the seagull started the ball rolling or it started rolling on its own nor did my partner or any one else in our group. The ball appeared at rest for a few moments after hitting it onto the green. I only saw the seagull chasing and hitting the ball after it was moving and was part way down the slope. When we got to the green we did see the ball mark near the top edge of the slope. In the note that follows rule 18-1 it states “it must be known or virtually certian that an outside agency has moved the ball in the absence of such knowledge or certianty, the player must play under rule 27-1. Since we never saw what caused the intial movement of the ball this is what we proceeded under. Could I have still used rule 18-1 knowing other balls had been moved by the seagulls or must I see the initial movement to my ball by the outside agency to proceed under 18-1? Many Thanks
January 19th, 2009 at 9:52 amLeslie,
January 19th, 2009 at 11:19 amSince you did not see if the gull started it moving or if it moved on its own, it comes down to the best estimate that can be made. Since you saw the ball at rest, at least momentarily, in the absence of any other factors such as severe wind or a very steep slope, it can probably be concluded that the ball was moved by the gull. If those factors were present, then it is possible that the ball started moving before the gull attacked it. But, if we assume that gull did strike the ball while it was moving and caused more movement or altered its movement, Rule 19-1a would still apply. In the case where Rule 18 applies, you would put the ball back where it came to rest. If Rule 19 applies, you would put the ball where you believe it was first struck by the gull while it was moving. In either case, I believe you can go to the green and play from there.
I reached the Par5 11th green in regulation at the 2008 Pittsburgh City Tournament at Delta View GC by hitting driver, driver, 7 iron! The wind was outrageous and the slope of that green + pin placement was outrageous! Loved it! However, my 4ft birdie putt, which I incidentally just barely “tapped”, finished 30 yards down the fairway! As did my next 2 pitch shots. Ultimately, I got a 9 on the hole as did a few others. It pretty much blew the wind out of my sails.. haha! After the round, one of my playing competitors mentioned that I could have deemed my “birdie” putt now lying 30 yards down the fairway unplayable and played my 6th shot from where I just played my fourth (stroke + distance). 4ft is closer than I would probably ever hit my 30 yard pitch shot, so this seems like a good deal. Is this true? And if so, do I “drop” on the green or “place”? And why didn’t Tiger Woods do this when he putted off the 13th green into Rae’s Creek at the Masters that year? I’m thinking because it isn’t legal?
Nice article and good read, thnx!
January 20th, 2009 at 7:44 pmEDIT:
btw, this security code captcha stuff has gotten out of hand. “prove that you’re not a bot!” .. geez, how are humans supposed to read those letters! :)
Steve,
Yes, you could have declared your ball unplayable and tried the putt again. Rule 28 – Ball Unplayable allows you to declare your ball unplayable anywhere on the golf course except when it is in a water hazard. Option (a) under that rule allows you to play from where you played your last shot (stroke and distance). Rule 20-5 says that when you are playing your shot from where your previous shot was played and that was the putting green, you place the ball. So, you could have declared your ball in the fairway unplayable and placed it back on the spot you where you had hit the putt.
January 20th, 2009 at 7:55 pmAs to why Tiger Woods didn’t do that at the Masters, he was playing under Rule 26 (Water Hazard), but he could also have placed his ball back on the green. But, his putt was much longer than a 4-footer and he probably felt he could chip it closer rather than risk putting it back in the water.
I have been informed that Tiger Woods did choose to use option (a) under Rule 26 and placed his ball back on the putting green on the 13th at Augusta in 2005.
I was reading one of the other questions, and it made me think about this…if you chip on to a green and the ball rolls back past where it was before the shot, and goes into the water..do you still have the option of playing from the original shot since this would be closer than where the ball went into the hazard?
January 20th, 2009 at 10:54 pmFrank,
At any time you may proceed under Stroke and Distance, even if the point where you made the stroke from is closer to the hole than where your ball ended up.
January 21st, 2009 at 8:32 amI am not a member of a private country club (and never have been), but my NCGA handicap is ‘registered’ with a private club. Am I eligible to play in the NCGA Public Links championship?
January 21st, 2009 at 11:20 amI read in the Decisions book that if two players both lose balls in a water hazard, the order of play for the next shots is decided by lot. Would it make any difference if the balls that were lost had both been hit from the tee? And is order decided by lot if one player hit again from the tee and the other player decided to drop along the hole/margin line and was closer to the hole than his opponent who was using the tee box? (The note under 10-1 leaves me still unclear).
January 21st, 2009 at 11:24 amSpalding,
The NCGA follows the same definition of a public golfer as the USGA in determining who is eligible for our Public Links. Championship. Contestants must be bona fide public course players who do not hold playing privileges in any course from which the general public is excluded or privileges in any private club maintaining its own course. Exceptions: A bona fide public course member may hold incidental privileges at a course not open to the public when such privileges are provided by: (1) An educational institution of which he is a student; or (2) Federal Armed Service of which he is a member; or (3) An industry by which he is employed.
January 21st, 2009 at 11:27 amIf you have a specific question about your case, please call our Rules and Competitions Department at 831-625-4653.
Drew,
January 21st, 2009 at 11:47 amIt does not matter where the balls were played from in the case described.
The note to 10-1 means that if your only choice was to play under stroke and distance (lost ball outside a water hazard or ball Out of Bounds), the point of your previous stroke is used to determine order of play. If you have other options such as a ball in a water hazard, you use the current location of the balls.
In the case where both balls are lost in the same general area of a water hazard, it can’t be known which ball is further from the hole. Therefore the decision as to who will play first must be made by lot as described in Decision 10/3. This decision is irrespective of which option the players might choose under the water hazard rule.
If the two balls lost in the water hazard were lost in signficantly different areas (I top my ball into the hazard and you fly yours 200 yards further before it splashes), the player whose ball was obviously further from the hole would play first.
If one ball was lost in the hazard, but the other player’s ball was outside the hazard approximately the same distance from the hole, the order would again be determined by lot.
A player decided to test the rough, so we placed (grounded) his club IN FRONT of the ball (say 6 inches), subsequently the ball moved. The player contends he did not incur a penalty because grounding your club must be at address. What is the ruling?
January 23rd, 2009 at 3:47 pmMark,
January 23rd, 2009 at 4:20 pmThere are two reasons a player gets penalized when his ball moves. A player is penalized under Rule 18-2b if he has addressed the ball and it subsequently moves. Decision 18-2b/5.5 says that a player who “grounds” his club in front of the ball is liable for penalty under Rule 18-2b. Therefore, if he has completed his stance and grounded the club in front of the ball he has addressed it.
The other way a player is penalized is under Rule 18-2a. Under this rule, the player is penalized if he causes his ball to move. If it can be determined that the placing of the club in front of the ball caused it to move, he would be subject to penalty even if he had not completed addressing the ball.
But, beyond all that, if, in placing the club down in front of the ball, he, in any way, improved his line of play (pressing down some grass etc), he would be in violation of Rule 13-2 which is a two-stroke penalty (loss of hole in match play) regardless of the ball’s subsequent movement. At that point his action would have violated two different rules. Since one action caused this, he would receive the greater of the two penalties which would be for the violation of Rule 13-2.
Thursday, 29 Jan 09 at the FBR/Scottsdale Open. Anthony Kim’s ball came to rest in a cactus. He took an unplayable lie, going back on the line from the pin through the ball. He stopped and dropped his ball just off the concrete cart path. Now his stance was ON the concrete cart path and he hit it from there. The poor footing resulted in a mediocre shot. As I understand it, he could have taken additional relief, with no penalty, from the cart path and the video clearly suggested that he would have had a better lie, a better stance, and a better angle to the green. Is my interpretation right and if so, do you have any idea why he chose NOT to take the additional relief? There was a rules official helping, but I suppose he was under no obligation to volunteer the info about the additional relief option. Thanks. Chuck
January 30th, 2009 at 3:49 pmChuck,
Anthony Kim did take an unplayable from the cactus and used option (b) of Rule 28. He called the official over to determine if he was allowed to drop the ball where he did and if he didn’t like his lie, would be able to take relief from the cart path. He was told that he could take relief if he had interference from the path after dropping. He did have interference but he evidently liked the lie he got and decided to play the ball while standing on the path.
January 30th, 2009 at 4:06 pmFrom there he hit his shot onto the cart path by the green, again chose not to take relief and chipped it from the path. He then made a 8-foot putt to save his par 5.
In 4 ball play both my partner and I are on the green. I putt and my partner who has not previously marked his ball, quickly marks and lifts it after my putt is in motion thinking my ball might hit his. Do we both get penalized or just my partner for lifting his ball after mine was in motion? Or do neither of us get penalized as the balls never collided? Are the rulings different for stroke and match play?
February 1st, 2009 at 3:59 pmDrew,
Your partner is not allowed to lift a ball while another ball is in motion that might assist or interfere with another players ball. Therefore, he would receive the general penalty under Rule 22-2. In stroke play, he would recieve a two-stroke penalty. In match play he would be disqualified for the hole and your score would have to count for the team.
If his ball would have hit yours had it been left in place, he would also be penalized under Rule 30-3f in match play or 31-8 in stroke play as your violation would have assisted him.
February 2nd, 2009 at 9:31 amDoes the number one handicap hole have to in the first nine holes of play? If so, why is that?
February 2nd, 2009 at 12:00 pmWilliam,
February 2nd, 2009 at 12:12 pmIn general, yes they should be on the first nine.
The following is from the USGA Handicap System Manual:
“The USGA recommends that the odd-numbered strokes be assigned to the holes on the first nine and the even-numbered strokes to the holes on the second nine.
This format equalizes, as nearly as possible, the distribution of handicap strokes over the entire 18 holes, and makes matches more equitable. In a case where the second nine is decidedly more difficult than the first nine, consideration should be given to allocating the odd-numbered strokes to the second nine.”
My question has to do with the embedded ball rule. The rule itself reads: “25-2. Embedded Ball A ball embedded in its own pitch-mark in the ground in any closely mown area through the green may be lifted, cleaned and dropped, without penalty, as near as possible to the spot where it lay but not nearer the hole. The ball when dropped must first strike a part of the course through the green. “Closely mown area” means any area of the course, including paths through the rough, cut to fairway height or less.” Watching the PGA, it appears this rule is loosely interpreted as the pros tend to get a drop whenever the ball embeds in it’s pitch mark, even in light rough. If the ball is embedded in the rough, can you get a free drop?
February 2nd, 2009 at 3:12 pmKen,
February 2nd, 2009 at 3:26 pmYou are correct that the rule as found in Rule 25-2 only allows relief in closely mown areas. In Appendix I on page 107 of the 2008-2009 Rules of Golf, there is an optional local rule allowing relief through the green. The only exceptions to that are for relief from sandy areas in the rough or when it is clearly unreasonable to play the shot due to some other factor.
Every tour and association, including the USGA and the NCGA, that I am aware of in the United States implements the local rule. In the rest of the world, it is not so universal and it is primarily the opposition of the Royal and Ancient Golf Club of St. Andrews that has prevented it becoming the rule.
When putting, I noticed that a player straddles the line of putt behind the ball, looks at the hole and takes practice strokes. Before the practice strokes begin, he grounds the putter so that it touches the extended line of the putt behind the ball the toe of the putter pointing to the hole and the entire length of the putter touching the extended line of play. then when he moves in to address the ball and putt. He leaves the putter on the ground, touching the line of play with the putter’s toe still pointing at the hole, then right before he takes his stance, he moves his putter to aim it and places it right behind the ball then putts. Before he takes his stance, is the touching of the line of play allowed in the fashion described above? Thanks!
February 2nd, 2009 at 4:04 pmJoe,
February 2nd, 2009 at 4:23 pmThe definition of line of putt states that it is the line the player wishes his ball to take after a stroke on the putting green. It starts at the ball and ends at the hole. Therefore, if he is placing his putter down behind the ball, he is not touching his line of putt and there would be no violation. Even if he were touching the ground in front of the ball, if it was while in the process of addressing it, Rule 16-1a would exempt him from penalty as long as he didn’t press anything down.
Are scores shot in a foreign country to be posted in the NCGA? I’ve been in the Philippines for six months, playing almost 20 rounds so my current index is not reflective of my current play.
February 3rd, 2009 at 7:35 pmRobert,
If the course has a course rating and a slope you should post your scores.
February 4th, 2009 at 8:58 amOur club is going to hold its first match play tournament this year. We had a question as to scoring in match play when men play women on a hole that is of different par for men and women. For instance, there is a par 74 course for women that is par 72 for men. Hole 11 is a par 5 for women and a par 4 for men. If both score a 5, is that hole halved?
Thanks!
February 5th, 2009 at 1:23 pmDoug,
In the USGA Handicap Manual, Decision 9-4a/3 covers this. According to that decision, par is irrelevant. The player who completes the hole in the fewest strokes wins the hole.
February 5th, 2009 at 1:58 pmHi,
February 7th, 2009 at 6:02 pmAt our course, a par three with a water hazard also has a drop area. I hit my first shot into the hazard and took a chance and tried to play the ball from where it was in the hazard. My plan backfired and the shot ended up out of bounds. Then, I decided I no longer wanted to try playing out of the hazard; I wanted to drop outside the hazard. Could I have still used the drop area? Or must I use one of the other w/h options?
Drew,
February 8th, 2009 at 12:14 pmThere is nothing in the rules to prohibit you from using the drop zone.
Since your ball went out of bounds, you would get a penalty stroke to get back to where you hit from inside the hazard (Rule 27) and another one to get out of the hazard (Rule 26). Rule 26-2b covers when a ball is hit out of bounds from a water hazard.
A local player was on the green and his teammate skulled a shot from off the green toward that player. The player stopped the ball with his putter to keep it from going off the green. The player who stopped the ball incurred a two stroke penalty under rule 1-2 (and the risk of being disqualified). What does the player who hit the ball do? Does he cancel his shot and replay from the same position? Does he incur a penalty?
February 13th, 2009 at 6:35 pmSonny,
February 14th, 2009 at 9:11 amBy teammate, I am assuming you mean a partner in a four-ball event rather than a teammate in an event such as a college tournament. I also assume we are talking about stroke play. Decision 1-2/7 talks about a similar kind of incident, although it is match play and on the putting green so I’ll extrapolate from it.
Because the player whose ball is affected suffers the consequences of the actions of his partner he would be penalized 2 strokes under Rule 1-2. If the breach was a serious one, he would be disqualified for that hole. If the action by the partner was a casual one the partner would not be penalized (e.g. he just reached out and stopped the ball as it went by). If it was more purposeful (e.g. he positioned himself there with the intent of stopping the ball from going in a hazard), he would receive a two-stroke penalty and if it was deemed to be a serious breach, he would be disqualified for that hole. Since both players are disqualified for the serious breach, the team would be disqualified under Rule 31-7b.
I just read Stump the Rules Wizards in the winter issue of NCGA Golf. The illustration on page 64 shows the drop line on a line extended from the location of the ball in the hazard to the hole. It seems unlikely a tee shot would have entered the hazard at this point. Shouldn’t the entry point more likely be to the right of what is shown, with the resulting drop line more in line with the tee box? Thanks.
February 14th, 2009 at 2:22 pmPat,
February 16th, 2009 at 10:30 amThe line is not really from the location of the ball, but from the point where that line crossed the yellow line on the green side of the hazard. The illustration shows a ball that flew to the green and was taken back into the water by backspin or the slope of the green and its surrounds. The fact that ball ball happens to be on the line is irrelevant. All that matters is where it last crossed the line. In looking at the picture, I can see how the arc also makes it appear to be picture of the ball in the air, but that was not the intent. If the ball had not been on the green side at any time (in the air or on the ground), the point of entry would have been on the tee side where the black line crosses the yellow one and player could have kept that point between the point he drops and the hole in taking relief.
I’m either blind or the link to “Stump…” is gone. I have to use the search window to find the questions thrown your way. Can we get a more direct link to your questions and answers on the home page?
February 16th, 2009 at 4:26 pmDrew – It is now the bottom link in the green box placed on the middle right of the homepage. Thanks,
February 16th, 2009 at 4:33 pmIn a recent tournament, I pitched my ball from a down hill lie where it landed on the green and proceeded to roll off the green and come to rest in an animal hole at the edge of the fringe just before a 6-inch strip of rough that then dropped off into the water. There were no hazard lines drawn on the ground, and my ball was outside the line between the nearest two red stakes. In this case, a portion of the green was also outside these stakes. It was determined that I don’t get free relief from the burrowing animal hole and I had to play it as it lies or return to the spot of my previous shot.
Was this the correct ruling? Could I have dropped my ball on the green where it entered the hazard line? Can you expand on the interpretation of the hazard line for peninsula or island greens with red stakes?
Thanks,
February 23rd, 2009 at 8:44 pmAlex
Alex,
You say that your ball was “outside” the line, but you seem to imply that your ball was inside the water hazard. There is no relief from abnormal ground conditions such as a burrowing animal hole when your ball is in a water hazard. Therefore your only was to play it or proceed under the water hazard rule. Given that the stakes were red, you have 4 options under that rule. Sometimes they are not all available.
Option 1 is to return to where you just played from, which is what you were advised. Option 2 would be to drop on the far side of the hazard, keeping the point where your ball last crossed the margin of the hazard. Option 3 was to drop outside the hazard within two club-lengths of the point where the ball last crossed the margin at a point no nearer the hole. Option 4 would be to determine if there was a point on the opposite margin of the hazard the same distance from the hole as the point you last crossed and drop within two club-lengths of that no nearer the hole. From your description, it sounds like Option 3 was not available due to all points being closer to the hole. I don’t know if any others were available. As for an island green, some of the options might or might not exist due to the nature of the hole. You should also be aware that in determining a location for Option 4, you can not cross areas that are outside the hazard so you can’t go to the other side of the island and drop.
February 23rd, 2009 at 11:22 pmMy ball lies within a tree well and it is clearly cut for irrigation purposes. Do I get relief from the well whether the tree interferes with my swing or not?
February 24th, 2009 at 10:06 amKacey,
Decision 33-2a/10.5 says:
“. What is the status under the Rules of tree wells or tree basins?
A. There is no relief under the Rules from tree basins which are not made of artificial materials.
If a tree basin has an artificial wall, the wall is an obstruction unless the Committee deems it to be an integral part of the course under
February 24th, 2009 at 10:29 amRule 33-2a.”
The following was told to me so I can’t be sure of the correctness of the situation. (Perhaps you have better knowledge of the circumstances.) Anyway, I was told that at the recent ATT, Charles Howell, playing the fifth hole at PB hit his tee shot off the cart path and his ball ended up inside the jacket of a spectator who was standing further down on the cart path. What is the sequence of drops that Charles Howell would have had to make to get his ball back into play correctly?
February 24th, 2009 at 2:52 pmDrew,
Rule 19-1 covers a ball in motion that is deflected or stopped by an outside agency. In general, the ball is played as it lies. But, if it comes to rest or on a moving or animate outside agency, the ball is to be dropped at the point where it came to rest in or on the outside agency. Therefore, Howell must drop a ball at the point where the person was standing when the ball went into his/her jacket. If after dropping, he had interference with the cart path, he could have taken relief from it.
February 24th, 2009 at 2:58 pmHello, I was playing in a Match Play event last weekend and I have a question. During the match, a player who was also in the event and had played the course that same day came out and started to caddy for my opponent, his friend. My opponent did not ask my permission but I did not bring it up. It might be too late for me now, but is that legal? I think there are differences in match and stroke play. Thanks.
February 24th, 2009 at 4:52 pmJames,
Decision 6-4/8 says that it is ok for a player who has already played the course that day (or one who is going to play it later) can caddie for another player. Here is the wording:
Q. Two players playing in the same competition at different times on the same day caddie for each other. Is this permissible?
A. Yes.
February 24th, 2009 at 5:13 pmDrew,
When A put down the incorrectly substituted ball, it became his ball in play (Rule 15-2). Under Rule 20-6, he should have replaced the substituted ball with the original at that point since he had not yet played a stroke at the substituted ball. Therefore, by returning to his original spot, with the original ball, he has lifted his ball in play and not replaced it properly and is penalized 2 strokes under Rule 20-1.
March 3rd, 2009 at 10:21 amIn the internet discussion on this question, it was argued that it was necessary for the player to place his ball where the wrong substitution took place. Your explanation makes much more sense. Thanks.
March 3rd, 2009 at 10:46 amWhich takes precedence in a “Protection of Young Trees” situation when the local rule says the player MUST take relief and the exception says player may NOT take relief if interference by anything other than the tree exits, perhaps by:
March 4th, 2009 at 10:26 am1) Integral parts of the course which include cables, rods, wires or wrappings when closely attached to trees
2) A boundary wall or fence
3) Tree roots or some other possible unplayable situation.
Drew,
March 4th, 2009 at 10:34 amThe items that are tied to the tree and declared integral parts of the course are a part of the tree in this case so relief would be granted. Assuming the tree roots were from this tree, they would also be included. If the ball was unplayable for some other reason such as a bush which prevented the player from taking a stance relief should be denied. Also, if a boundary wall or fence prevented the player from playing the ball, no relief would be available. If after taking an unplayable penalty away from those items, interference with the tree still existed, the player could take relief from it.
If the first group out on the final day of an NCGA tournament consists of three players, can a fourth substitute/marker player (provided his handicap is appropriate) play with the group?
March 15th, 2009 at 8:35 amC.J.,
Only players who have registered for the tournament can play during NCGA tournaments. Also, if a player is disqualified, he is not allowed to play in any further rounds.
March 18th, 2009 at 4:49 pmI may be over thinking this one but to speed up play I have seen players say they are hitting a provisional ball even though the first ball hit will clearly end up in the water hazard and not lost and not out of bounds. Is the player entitled to hit a provisional? If not is there a penalty? I’m asking because I have experienced a player hitting a provisional ball which ended up in a better lie than their 1st (which came to rest in the hazard) so they chose play the provisional.
March 20th, 2009 at 2:59 pm27-2. Provisional Ball
a. Procedure
If a ball may be lost outside a water hazard or may be out of bounds, to save time the player may play another ball provisionally in accordance with Rule 27-1. The player must inform his opponent in match play or his marker or a fellow-competitor in stroke play that he intends to play a provisional ball, and he must play it before he or his partner goes forward to search for the original ball.
If he fails to do so and plays another ball, that ball is not a provisional ball and becomes the ball in play
Kurt,
March 22nd, 2009 at 9:02 amIf a player hits a ball the he calls a provisional when the ball can clearly not be lost anywhere other than a water hazard. It is not a provisional, but his ball in play, lieing 3 (the second ball is played under Stroke and Distance.)
If there is a possibility that the ball could be somewhere other than a water hazard, the player would be justified in hitting the provisional. If the ball was found in the water hazard, he would abandon the provisional and either play the ball as it lies or proceed under the water hazard rule.
If he did not know it was a water hazard, he would be ok to have played the provisional, but once he discovered that the area where he hit the original ball was a water hazard he must abandon the provisional ball and either continue with the original or play a ball under the water hazard rule.
Anytime a ball is found in a water hazard or there is virtual certainty that it is lost in the water hazard, the provisional MUST be abandoned.
With all that in mind, there is a local rule which can be used to allow a provisional for a ball in a water hazard if the player’s only option would usually be to return to the previous spot and it would be very time consuming to do so. But, this must be instituted with a local rule and shouldn’t be used frequently. The local rule is specified in the Appendix of the Rules of Golf.
Hello, can you clear up a point regarding Rule 6-6b/c? A and B are competitors in stroke play match and at the end of the round, A signs his scorecard. B declines to attest A’s scorecard due to the application of a penalty. If A and B present their case to the Committee, can A’s score be adjusted without disqualification? Or is it too late as he already signed his score? Thank you.
March 22nd, 2009 at 9:43 pmWe recently finished a two man four ball tournament at the club I belong to. One of the teams was disqualified because their playing partners refused to sign their card due to – what they thought – were two rules violation that occurred during the round.
March 23rd, 2009 at 8:29 amThe first perceived violation was thought to occur because, during the tournament – which was being played under lift, clean and place because of the recent rains – player A picked up what he thought was his ball, discovered it was not his, dropped it where he found it and subsequently picked up his own ball and proceeded to finish out the hole. While his ball was not even necessary because of his playing partners’ score on the hole, the opponents claimed that player A had cheated by dropping new ball in play.
The second perceived violation occurred when player A hit a ball into a lateral hazard. Using his option, he dropped a ball on a line extending past the point of entry and the hole location, made a legal drop, and finished out the hole.
The issue is not so much the legality of the two incidents, but weather of not the opponent should have made a claim at the time of the perceived rules violations and confronted the player in a timely manner. The opponent, in this case, decided to not say anything until AFTER the stipulated round and then refused to sign the scorecard.
What should occur at this point? The head pro of the course determined that, since there was no signed scorecard for the affected team, they would have to be disqualified and the second place team declared the winner.
Scott,
The scorecard can be changed until it is considered returned to the Committee. This should be defined by the Committee. At NCGA events, we define a scoring area. As long as the player is still within that scoring area, the card can be changed even if it is signed. We urge players to stay in the scoring area until we check the card. If there was any dispute, it can resolved.
March 23rd, 2009 at 10:10 amJeff,
March 23rd, 2009 at 10:18 amIn a stroke play tournament, there is no requirement for timeliness in making a claim such as there is in match play. Still, there are times when a violation might result in disqualification unless it is corrected before the player tees off on the next hole. Also, it is always best to get the facts straight as soon as possible. Therefore, it is best to bring the issue to the attention of the players involved as soon as possible.
If the marker refuses to sign the score card, the Committee in charge of the competition should determine the facts and make a determination. Once the determination is made, the marker should sign the card along with the player. But, the marker could still refuse to sign. The Committee can then accept the card without that signature. Decision 6-6a/4 covers this.
During a club match, competitor A used a legal rangefinder on a par three tee box. Competitor B demanded to know the yardage as measured saying that it was to be considered common knowlege. Did A have to tell B what yardage he measured?? Thanks
March 23rd, 2009 at 11:24 amJoe,
March 23rd, 2009 at 12:16 pmA is not required to tell B what he measured. Out of courtesy I would think the should though.
A player hits his ball into a tree. The ball is identifiable and even playable to a limited degree as it would be possible to get a club on the ball with a stroke similar to a baseball swing trying to hit a pitch very high in the strike zone. To make this stroke, the player would be standing in casual water. Does the exception to Rule 25 preclude him from getting relief or is this one of the times when the rules of golf help out the player? And if he does get relief, does the relief point start directly below the ball?
March 24th, 2009 at 6:46 pmDrew,
March 25th, 2009 at 9:33 amAs long as it is reasonable to make a stroke at the ball, you would be entitled to relief if you were standing in the casual water. You would need to determine the nearest point where you were not standing in the casual water and the ball would not be in it or your swing not interferred with if you dropped it there. Then drop within one club-length of that point with no penalty.
Okay my ball ends up in the base of a tree and I want to take relief.
March 29th, 2009 at 7:33 amI have 2 questions.
Can I take relief through the tree 2 club lengths.
also can you explain stance and club length relief and when it can be used.
George,
I assume that you mean you are declaring your ball unplayable when it is “in the base of the tree”. Under Rule 28 – Ball Unplayable, you have 3 options all with a penalty of one stroke. 1) You can return to where you played your last stroke 2) you can drop at a point that is along a direct line from the hole through the point where your ball was unplayable, no nearer the hole, going back as far as you want or 3) drop within two club-lengths of the point where your ball lies, no nearer the hole. If you choose option three, you measure the two club-lengths from the location of the ball. You could measure “through” the tree. To do that, estimate the amount of distance through the tree and continue from there with whatever is left of the two club-lengths.
Stance and club-length relief is used when taking free relief from immovable obstructions, ground under repair, casual water or the like. When you take a drop for things such as lateral water hazards or unplayable lies, you can drop within 2 club lengths, but you don’t necessarily get stance relief.
March 31st, 2009 at 11:32 amI addressed my tee shot on a windy day. During my swing the ball was blown off the tee. I could not stop my swing in time and struck the top of the ball. Am I allowed to retee or do I play on counting the stroke.
April 1st, 2009 at 9:04 amAt a recent boys’ High School Tournament (stroke play), Player A and Player B each had reached the green and marked their ball. Player A replaced his ball and struck his putt. As Player A’s ball was in motion, Player B replaced his ball. Player A’s ball struck player B’s ball. Is player B penalized two strokes? Does Player A continue play from where his ball came to rest after striking the ball of Player B?
April 1st, 2009 at 9:16 amAlan,
If your intent to hit the ball stopped, you would normally be considered not to have made a stroke, but Decision 14/1.5 says that if you hit the ball you would be considered to have made a stroke. Rule 11-3 says that if your ball falls off the tee and you make a stroke, the ball is in play and shall be played as it lies.
April 1st, 2009 at 10:50 amDuane,
Decision 16-1b/3 covers this. As long as B did not replace his ball with the intent of deflecting the ball, there is no penalty and A must play the ball as it lies. If B had replaced the ball with the intent of deflecting the ball, he would be in violation of Rule 1-2 and would be penalized 2 strokes or possibly be disqualifed.
April 1st, 2009 at 10:53 amGreat article/feature…thanks!
My question is in regard to Rule 7, and came up in a stroke play event. Player A plays his third stroke from a bunker, catches the ball thin and it flys over the green. In frustration (or confusion!), he makes another swing while still standing at his original spot where his third stroke occured. Player B argues that he is testing the condition of the hazard and should be penalized. Player A argues that Rule 7, Note 1 states that “A practice swing is not a practice stroke and may be taken at any place, provided the player does not breach the Rules.” Who is correct?
Thanks for your input, and again…great article!
April 2nd, 2009 at 3:20 pmIn reviewing Rule 13, I think it is important to add that in the situation described above, Player A’s ball did NOT lie in another “Similar Hazard” (bunker) after his third shot was played. I’m not sure if this factors into the decision, but wanted to add that detail.
April 2nd, 2009 at 3:32 pmKevin,
As long as the ball is outside the original hazard there is no penalty. The only time a player is penalized for testing the hazard is if the ball lies in the hazard. Rule 13-4 says “before making a stroke at a ball that is in a hazard … the player must not (a) test the condition of the hazard or a similar hazard”. Since the ball is not in this hazard he can not be penalized under rule 13. As you said, Rule 7 only applies for practice strokes, not swings.
Additionally, even if his ball has come to rest in another hazard, he is not penalized due to Exception 3 in Rule 13-4 which says “If a player makes a stroke from a hazard and the ball comes to rest in another hazard, Rule 13-4a does not apply to any subsequent actions taken in the hazard from which the stroke was made.”
April 2nd, 2009 at 4:12 pmCan an opponent stand on the line of your putt to get a read while you are putting?
April 4th, 2009 at 12:10 pmEd,
There is nothing in the rules to prevent the opponent standing on the line to read the putt, but most people would consider it bad etiquette.
April 4th, 2009 at 12:11 pmIn an NCGA qualifier at our club a player hit his tee shot into an area of rough near an adjacent fairway and near where other players were playing their shots on that adjacent hole. After searching for his ball and finding an abandoned ball the player determined that someone from the other hole had played his ball. (Let’s assume for our question that he had virtual certainty.) Accordingly, he followed the plan of Dec. 18-1/5 and dropped a ball in an equitable location. Before he made a stroke at that dropped ball his original ball was found, presumably within five minutes. The player picked up the dropped ball and played the original ball onto the green and completed the hole and teed off on the next hole. What is the ruling?
April 4th, 2009 at 9:12 pmDrew,
If we assume he had virtual certainty (which might be debatable), when he dropped the ball, he had properly put a ball into play and the original ball was now out of play. Therefore, he should have continued with the dropped ball. The original ball was a wrong ball. If the ball had been dropped in an area that was definitely incorrect, he could correct that under Rule 20-6 by dropping in the correct area. See Decision 26-1/3.5 for an analogous situation with a ball dropped under the Water Hazard rule.
Given that he played a wrong ball and didn’t correct it before teeing off on the next hole, he should have been disqualified. But, since the competition is now probably closed and he was unaware of the error before it closed, he can not be disqualified at this point.
April 4th, 2009 at 9:13 pmOn the right side of two adjoining holes, a course has a lateral water hazard. The hazard is a water gully, and is constructed with concrete. If a player’s ball lies outside the hazard, but his stance would be upon the concrete, is the player entitled to relief based on the fact it is a man-made obstruction? Thanks.
April 4th, 2009 at 11:27 pmScott, As long as the ball lies outside the water hazard, the player is entitled to relief if he has interference with his stance or area of intended swing by an obstruction in the hazard. If the Committee wished to prevent that, they could declare the concrete to be an integral part of the course.
In determining the nearest point of relief, the nearest point outside the hazard that gives complete relief and the ball must be dropped outside the hazard.
April 5th, 2009 at 6:44 pmA follow-up question to my earlier one regarding the “stolen” ball: Could the player have played both balls (the original and the dropped ball) under 3-3 if he stated his intentions to do so before either playing either of the balls? And could he have used 3-3 after lifting the dropped ball or does that action negate the use of 3-3?
April 6th, 2009 at 12:29 pmDrew,
Yes, the player could have played both balls under rule 3-3 before playing either ball. His lifting of the ball would still allow him to play both balls, although, he would have been penalized one stroke on the ball he lifted when it was ruled to count. Once he had played one of the balls, he would no longer be allowed to use 3-3, although there is no penalty if he tried to do so.
April 7th, 2009 at 6:00 pmA players ball comes to rest on a cart path. The player picks up his ball without marking walks to the side of the cart path and drops the ball from less than shoulder height and then proceeds to hit his ball while standing on the cart path. I know he recieves 2 penalty strokes for not takeing complete relief but what about the other 2 infractions ? (This did happen in a qualifier) Thanks for your time.
April 8th, 2009 at 7:03 pmJake,
There is only one other violation which is dropping in an incorrect manner. There is no penalty for not marking the location as the ball is not being replaced. Decision 20-2a/3 says that if a player drops in an improper manner and in a wrong place and doesn’t correct it before playing a shot, he is penalized 3 strokes.
April 8th, 2009 at 7:37 pmWhen greens are under repair with airation and sand, am I allowed to post my handicap score?
April 8th, 2009 at 7:46 pmEileen,
Yes, scores should be posted when you play on aerified greens.
April 9th, 2009 at 7:38 amNext week we are going to play irons only. Are hybrids irons or are they woods? And, can you post a game when you only play with your irons.
April 9th, 2009 at 9:31 amLinda,
We checked with the USGA and they said there is no clear decision on what the status of hybrids are. It is up to the Committee in charge of the competition to state whether they are allowed or not. The USGA Handicap Manual states that you can not post a score when you play in an event that limits the number of clubs to less than 14 or restricts which kinds of clubs you can use. Therefore, you should not post the scores from this competition.
April 9th, 2009 at 12:48 pmI have been puzzled by this for years. During the 1992 Masters, Freddy Couples approach shot on hole 12 found the hazard but remained dry on the slope of the bank. He knocked his chip up close to secure par. However, immediately after his chip, Mr. Couples put his iron into the water pulled a ball out from Rae’s Creek and then chipped the ball back into the water while he was still playing the 12th hole. Why was he not stroked? Why was he not disqualified for signing for a wrongful score on his scorecard?
April 12th, 2009 at 8:55 pmJoseph,
I remember this was questioned at the time. It was decided that Couples was merely getting the ball out of the water as we all do and that his casual flick of it back into the water was not a practice stroke. Decision 7-2/5 is a decision in a similar vein that says “the casual flicking of a range ball, apparently only for the purpose of tidying up the course, is not a breach.”
April 13th, 2009 at 8:55 amI know that the margins of gur go down but not up; margins of a wh go up and down. What about the margins of an obstruction? We have a maintenance area at our club that is deemed to be an obstruction. In a few places, trees growing inside the fence line of the obstruction have branches that hang out of the obstruction area over areas that would not need relief from the fence that is the border of the maintenance area. If, however, one of these low hanging branches itself interferes with a player’s area of swing, does he get relief the same as if he were right up against the fence of the maintenance area?
April 18th, 2009 at 7:57 pmA player hits the front of the green that has a steep drop off. It’s actually amazing that the ball stays in place and does not roll of the green to the bottom of the hill below. Player marks his ball. Peparing to putt, player attempts to replace his ball where marked, has difficulty getting the ball to stay in place without rolling off the green but finally does. Prior to addressing the ball, the ball begins to move and rolls off the green to the bottom of the hill. What is the proper way for the player to now proceed?
April 19th, 2009 at 7:39 amDrew,
The Rules of Golf do not state if an immovable obstruction margins extend up or down. The only time this is considered relevant in the rules is when a ball is lost in an obstruction and it is deemed to have entered the obstruction at the edge (or drip line) of the obstruction.
Since the rules do not anticipate a situation such as you’ve described, I believe it must be decided in equity. A tree is not a man-made object and therefore, if the only interference the player has is with the tree, I do not believe he should be given relief.
It could be argued that this should be decided in a similar manner with ground under repair where all of a tree growing in the GUR is considered to be in the GUR, even those parts extending out of the GUR, but I do not consider this to be the same as the GUR is an area of natural ground that that is damaged or declared out of play for some reason while an obstruction is man-made. Additionally, the Rules Committee has decided that to extend the relief for GUR to things growing in it but have not done so for obstructions and therefore I don’t believe they want to do so.
April 20th, 2009 at 8:06 amJerry,
April 20th, 2009 at 8:09 amIf the ball was at rest when it was replaced and the player, his opponent in match or no other outside agency caused the ball to move, it must be played from where it comes to rest.
I hope you can answer this question.
I went to the hole to hit my drive I teed the ball but held back because someone from the group ahead of us came back to retrieve something in the middle of the fairway.
I immediately stepped away from my ball to wait for the group to clear the fairway. During this time I engaged in small conversation with one of my counterparts.
During the conversation I took a practice swing while facing my play partner and struck the ball by mistake. I was assessed a penalty and a stroke by the tournament director.
My impression is that I was not addressing the ball and that it was an unintentional hit and therefore I should not been assessed the penalty.
What is the correct ruling on this incident?
Warm Regards,
April 20th, 2009 at 7:00 pmMiguel,
April 21st, 2009 at 8:34 amYour ball was not yet in play as you had not made a stroke at it. Therefore, when you accidentally knocked it off the tee, you are allowed to re-tee it without penalty. There should not have been any penalty in this case. Rule 11-3 and the definition of ball in play cover this.
Players A and B are partners in a 4-ball stroke or match competition. At the second hole Player A tees off; before B tees offs he (B) discovers that he has 15 clubs in his bag. Decision 4-4a/11 tells us that in single stroke or match play competition no penalty would be assessed as the player with the extra club had not teed off, but what about the question above in which the side has begun the hole? Is any penalty for the second hole with too many clubs still dependent on just when the player with too many clubs begins the hole or when the side begins the hole?
April 23rd, 2009 at 3:07 pmDan,
April 23rd, 2009 at 5:55 pmThe side should be penalized on the second hole since they had begun the play of that hole. As in the case of a player who arrives late, once one player has teed off the side as begun play of the hole (Decision 31-2/1).
I am hoping that you can clear up a ruling for me. I hit my ball into a spot that was marked as ground under repair. I dropped my ball within one clubs length of the nearest point of relief that was not closer to the hole. The ball rolled down a hill, but within two club lengths of where I dropped it, and would have put my stance on a cart path. I picked up the ball and dropped again. The same thing happened where the ball rolled down a hill and again would have put my stance on a cart path. I then placed the ball where it hit the ground and continued play. Please let me know if I proceeded correctly, and if I did not, what would have been the correct course of action. Your attention to this question is greatly appreciated. Thank you.
April 24th, 2009 at 5:44 pmJohn,
April 25th, 2009 at 7:40 amWhen you took relief from the ground under repair, you had proceeded correctly until you picked up the ball and redropped at the previous point. At the time you that your ball came to rest, your ball was in play in a correct place. The cart path is a separate situation. You could play the ball as it lies or take relief from the cart path by determining your nearest point of relief from it and dropping within one club-length of that point. You lifted your ball in play and placed it in an incorrect place. You would be penalized 2 strokes under rule 20-3 or Rule 18-2 in stroke play or lost the hole in match play.
Any time you take relief and your ball comes to rest in a correct place relative to the area you are taking relief from, your ball is in play. If you have intereference from something else, you can then play the ball as it lies or take relief from that. This could be taking relief from ground under repair and ending up next to an obstruction as happened in your case or even taking relief from one area or ground under repair and ending up with interference from another area.
Thank you very much for your response. I have another question. In this case, where I needed to drop was on a mound that had very little grass with packed clay soil, The total area may have been about 10 feet wide, with the cart path on one side, and the ground under repair on the other. There was enough room to establish a point of relief, but each point put me on the opposite side of the crest of the mound. If I had taken relief from the cart path as was the proper course of action, my next drop would have ended up on the other side of the mound, and rolled back into the ground under repair. There is a slim chance that it would have eventually stopped somewhere on the mound in play, but unlikely. How many times should I continue to drop if this keeps going on? I know this is a highly unusual situation, but I think that this is what would have happened in this case. Thank you.
April 25th, 2009 at 8:28 amI understand a player is entitled to relief from a rock filled French drain. Over time, if grass has grown over the stone, is the player still entitled to relief from the French drain?
April 25th, 2009 at 8:33 pmJohn,
April 27th, 2009 at 10:14 amRule 20-2c covers the seven times when you must redrop. One of these is if your ball rolls back into the condition you are taking relief from such as ground under repair. If it does so, you would redrop. If the ball agains rolls into one of the conditions covered, you would place the ball at the point where it first struck the course on the second drop. If the ball won’t stay at rest there, you will find the nearest point where it will stay at rest and continues to give you relief from the condition you took relief from initially.
Janice,
April 27th, 2009 at 10:16 amIf there is still a chance that the club could contact the rocks in the French drain, relief would be justified. We usually will probe with a tee around the ball to see if we can feel rocks. If so, we would grant a player relief. We wouldn’t want a player’s club to hit the rocks when she takes a divot.
Again, thank you for your response. I don’t mean to be a pain, but I am still confused. As I was taking relief from the cart path, the ball did not roll back into a position that I was taking relief from, it rolled back into the ground under repair, and ground under repair does not seem to be covered under rule 20-2c. Are you saying that even though I was dropping for relief from a cart path, because my ball was ORIGINALLY in the ground under repair, when dropping for cart path relief, I re-drop if the ball ends up in ground under repair? So in this case, even though I was taking relief from the cart path, if the ball rolls into the ground under repair, I do not proceed as if this is a new condition as I did when my first drop rolled onto the cart path. I drop twice and if it rolls into the ground under repair twice I then place the ball where it hit the ground. If this is the case, please let me know what rule this is covered by. I appreciate your responses and am just trying to make sure I understand correctly. Thank you.
April 27th, 2009 at 4:42 pmWhat if the wind blows the ball in the hole? It was not overhanging the hole. I hadn’t addressed it yet. After cleaning and replacing the ball a gust of wind moved the ball over three feet right into the hole. thanks, pat
May 1st, 2009 at 4:40 pmMy tee shot is on the fairway 200 + yards away. The tee shot of another player in my group hits my ball and moves it a short distance. Rule 18-5 tells us the ball must be replaced. Does replace mean place at the estimated spot or drop at the estimated spot?
May 1st, 2009 at 10:07 pmJohn,
May 2nd, 2009 at 5:50 pmI’m sorry I misunderstood, but once I did, I wanted to check something with the USGA.
Decision 1-4/8 discusses a situation where the ball lies in casual water and the nearest point of relief is on the cart path. After taking relief from the water, the player has interference with the cart path. The nearest point of relief is back in the casual water. After dropping there, in equity, he can find the nearest point that gives relief from both situations.
After checking with the USGA, I was told that this decision can be extended to include your case. So, after dropping twice and finding that you were going to be ping-ponging, you could find the nearest point no nearer the hole that would allow a drop to avoid both areas.
Pat,
May 2nd, 2009 at 5:52 pmOnce a ball is at rest, if it is moved by wind or water, it is played from where it comes to rest. Since that was in the hole, the ball is considered holed with the previous shot. This happened at the US Amateur in 2003 at Oakmont Country Club. A player’s second shot on the par 4 second hole came to rest about 2 feet above the hole. He marked, lifted, cleaned and replaced it so that it was at rest. While he was looking over the putt, the wind caused it to roll down into the hole for an eagle 2.
Drew,
May 2nd, 2009 at 5:55 pmNote 3 to Rule 18 tells us to use Rule 20-3c if the exact spot is not known. Rule 20-3c says that since the ball was lieing through the green, you must estimate it and drop it as near as possible to the estimated spot, no nearer the hole and not in a hazard or on the putting green.
I drove the ball next to a small tree right off the fairway, and my ball ended up leaning against a small tree root. There was no way I could hit the ball without first hitting the root. The tree was not staked and there was a small possibility of hitting root and snapping my iron. Is this a situation where I could get relief without a penalty stroke or is it an unplayable lie, take the penalty?
May 4th, 2009 at 3:22 pmCarlos,
May 4th, 2009 at 7:30 pmFrom what you are describing, your only options are to play that ball as it lies or take an unplayable lie and use on of the three options available under penalty of one stroke.
Guess I missed your reply. Will try again.
May 8th, 2009 at 10:14 amI am now over 80 years and no longer have distance so I have moved to the forward tees (red/ladies). I play weekly with my seniors club and
most players play from the white tees (Medal play). So the handicap question comes up. From reading your earlier replies. I now figure that I must take my handicap based on my index from the red chart and
then deduct 3 strokes (based on the slope difference for the different
tees on the course). Some say I should take my handicap, based on my index from the white tees and deduct 3 strokes and some say I should
just use the handicap for the red tees based on my index. Whos right?
Donald,
May 8th, 2009 at 10:55 amFirst, there needs to be a Course Rating and Slope for the Men from the red tees. If your course doesn’t have one, please have them contact our Handicap Department to get one. To calculate your Course Handicap when playing against players who are playing the white tees, you would first lookup your Handicap Index on the slope chart for the Red Tees. Then, you would calculate the difference between the Course Ratings for men for the red and white tees. Round any difference of .5 or greater up to the next number. Subtract that difference from your Course Handicap to determine how many stroke you get.
True or False
May 8th, 2009 at 10:24 pmPlayer A hits his tee shot into a lateral water hazard. He attempts to hit out of the hazard, but hits the ball into an unplayable spot.
His options are A) drop the ball to where he hit his second shot (in the hazard) with a one stroke penalty (laying 3) or B) Take a drop outside the hazard using the spot where his tee shot crossed the hazard with a two stroke penalty (laying 4)
Rick,
May 9th, 2009 at 10:07 amFalse. A) He can drop at the point he just played from with a one stroke penalty (26-2a(i)), B) Proceed under options 26-1b or 26-1c with one penalty stroke using the point where he last crossed the margin of the hazard (26-2a(ii)), C) Return to where he last played outside the hazard (the tee) and play another ball from there with one penalty stroke(26-2a(iii)). In all these cases he would be laying 3.
If after proceeding in under option A above, if he doesn’t like where the ball comes to rest, he can use options B or C above with an additional penalty stroke (laying 4) (26-2a(i)(a or b).
If someone in the foursome picks up your ball, is there a rule in Golf that addresses that situation? We were told by the Pro that there is no rule in Golf to address this.
May 12th, 2009 at 8:32 amLarry,
May 12th, 2009 at 10:38 amRule 18 covers the movement of a ball at rest by anyone, Rule 20 covers the lifting of a ball. Rule 20 states that the ball that may be lifted under the Rules may be lifted by the player, his partner or another person authorized by the player. Rule 18 applies when the ball is without authorization or when the rules do not allow it.
Penalties depend on the status of the person in question. If the person is your partner, he is authorized to lift the ball any time that you are. He must follow the same requirements of marking the position etc. (Rule 20-1) If he lifts it when the rules don’t allow it or without marking it, there is a one-stroke penalty (Rule 18-2a or Rule 20).
If you are playing match play, you opponent may not lift your ball without your permission. If he does so, he is subject to a one-stroke penalty. (Rule 18-3)
If you are playing stroke play, any fellow competitor in your group who lifts your ball without permission is not subject to penalty. (Rule 18-4)
In all cases the ball must be replaced if the rules require it or there would be a two-stroke penalty in stroke play or loss of hole in match play that would apply to you, regardless of who lifted it (Rule 18). The ball may be replaced by you, your partner or the person who lifted it. (Rule 20-3a)
That was an awesome answer to my incomplete question. Here is the real situation. A ball was hit off the tee that admittedly came close to a foursome in the fairway. The person who hit the ball thought he would not be close at all and the drive went well over 300 yards. Someone in the foursome in front lifted the ball so when they arrived the ball was gone. The four gentlemen admitted they took the ball but it could not be determined which person. The Head Pro got involved but said there is no rule to address this behavior. Although the pro was upset he advised there was nothing he could do.
May 12th, 2009 at 1:25 pmLarry,
May 12th, 2009 at 1:42 pmThanks for letting me know “the rest of the story.”
While it was very impolite of the group in front of you to pick up your ball, the only rule that could be applied would be Rule 33-7 which allows the Committee in charge of a tournament to disqualify a player who has breached etiquette among other things. This would be a very harsh punishment for a single offense.
Since there was definite evidence that the ball was moved by an outside agency, the player would have been allowed to substiute a ball and drop it as near as possible to where it was taken with no penalty.
We have some confusion on a new rule this year at our club. Within two club lengths of the green is an immovable obstruction. I have hit a shot behind this obstacle, which is within two club lengths of the obstruction and, I wish to putt the ball. Per the new rule, do I get free relief form the obstruction and get to drop my ball no nearer the hole and in the same mowed area without penalty? I believe this rule has to be written into the local rules to be in force. And finally, what rule is this under?
May 13th, 2009 at 1:16 pmDana,
May 13th, 2009 at 4:51 pmThe Local Rule you are referring to can be found on page 110 of the 2008-2009 Rules of Golf. In order to use this rule, the obstruction must be within 2 club-lengths of the edge of the green, your ball must be within 2 club-lengths of the obstruction and it must be on your line of play. Your ball can not be in a hazard. You would find the nearest point not nearer the hole where the obstruction is not on your line of play and drop there. Notice that you drop at the point of relief, not 1 club-length as in relief from a normal obstruction. Also, there is no guarantee that you will drop in the same mowed area. You might move from the fringe to the rough or vice versa.
In general, this rule should only be used at courses where there are large chipping areas around the greens and not when rough is generally close to the green.
Are you allowed to carry more than one driver during a round?
May 14th, 2009 at 3:48 pmWade,
May 14th, 2009 at 4:58 pmYou can carry any combination of clubs you want as long as you don’t have more than 14 clubs. Phil Mickelson carried two drivers at the Masters a few years ago.
During a PGA event, a player hit into a bunker. There was a separate bunker adjacent to the one his ball was in. He took a couple of practice swings, grounding his club, in the adjacent bunker. He then went to the bunker with the ball and played it out. He was not assessed a penalty and the TV announcers said nothing; however, I thought it could be deemed an infraction. Is that legal to do?
Thank you,
May 17th, 2009 at 12:26 pmJohn Wheeler
A players ball was in a bad lie in the rough. He stated that he was going to play the shot left handed because he wanted to be standing on a sprinkler which would give him a new improved lie. He took his drop and then played the shot right handed like he had been playing all day. Are you able to do this in the “fairness” of the game?
May 20th, 2009 at 8:06 amJohn,
May 20th, 2009 at 9:28 amPrior to making a stroke, the player may not test the hazard or a similar hazard in the method that you described. I know of no incident where this happened on the PGA Tour.
Jack
May 20th, 2009 at 9:31 amRule 24-2 has an exception which states “A player may not take relief under this Rule if … (b) interferencde by an immovable obstruction would occur only through use of an unnecessarily abnormal stance, swing or direction of play.” If there was no reason for the player to hit the ball left handed, he is not entitled to relief and would be penalized two strokes for doing taking it in this situation.
If there was a tree or something else which prevented him from taking a right-handed stroke and the left-handed stroke gave him interference, he would be allowed to take relief as it would then be a necessary stance. If after taking relief he could play right handed he would be allowed to do so.
We had a recent club tournament and results were announced at the tournament site. Subsequently, while doing ESC adjustments for posting, I noted that one of the tournament winners had incorrectly added the totals on his scorecard. This incorrect total was used in reporting results of the tournament.
Under 34-1, a competition has been closed when the result has been officially announced and a penalty must not be imposed after the competition has closed. Under 33-5, the committee is responsible for the addition of scores.
The player signed a scorecard that was incorrect in terms of totals, but the scores on the individual holes was correct.
Is it therfore a correct interpretation that the tournament results should stand, but that the accurate ESC adjusted score should be posted for handicap calculation? I wanted to verify before posting.
Thanks in advance for your response.
May 23rd, 2009 at 11:32 amQuestion regarding Decision 7-2/1: Player A and B are partners in a 4-Ball stroke competition. A has picked up on a hole; B has yet to finish. While waiting for the hole to finish A putts on the green being played (or chips near the next teeing ground) away from the other players. Is A liable for penalty? If so would the penalty be assessed on the next hole as his score on the hole being played will not count? Is there any circumstance where the penalty would be applied to B? What about if the situation occurs on the last hole of the day? Similarly, what would happen if a partner, in a huff, teed off on the next hole before his partner had finished the previous hole?
May 23rd, 2009 at 2:54 pmMark,
May 24th, 2009 at 1:56 pmSince the Committee is responsible for the addition of the scores, the error should be corrected. Decision 34-1b/6 makes this clear. If this affects who received prizes, they should be correctly allocated. As for posting, the correct score should be posted. In the future, the Committee should make sure that it adds all scores when they are returned.
Our Golf Club has a local rule for relief from “Tree wells” and to treat them as ground-under-repair. I recently read that when taking relief from the tree well (ground-under-repair), you must take complete relief, which would include overhanging limbs or leaves of the tree in g-u-r, interfering with your stroke. It seems the Golf Club’s intention was to only get relief from the tree well itself and not the tree limbs. Can you tell me who is right?
May 25th, 2009 at 9:23 amIn 4-Ball if one partner is disqualified (only the one partner) or is injured and has to withdraw, do his scores on earlier holes that were the best of the two still count?
May 25th, 2009 at 7:31 pmA couple of questions regarding the use of electronic range finders:
For the upcoming NCGA Associate Club Championship (best 2 balls of 4), a) Please confirm it is acceptable to use electronic range finders and b) because members of our team will be playing in the same group, is it permissible to have just one range finder for use by both members in the group? Would this be equated to similar situations in team play where partners are permitted to get advice from their partner for things such as club selection, reading putts, etc….
May 26th, 2009 at 8:14 amDrew,
May 26th, 2009 at 8:26 amA would be penalized two strokes on the hole they were playing for practicing before the completion of the hole. B would not be penalized as long as he was not assisted in any manor by the practice (i.e. he learned about the speed of the green or the break.) It doesn’t matter if it is the last hole as the penalty is on that hole. Assuming A did not hole out and then he teed off before B had completed the hole, the team would started one hole before completing play of the previous one which would be a breach of Rule 1-1 and they would be disqualified. If A had holed out, his score would count for that hole and B would be penalized for practicing on the next hole during the play of the hole.
Alan,
May 26th, 2009 at 8:53 amIf the tree well is defined as ground under repair, anything that is rooted within it is also part of the ground under repair so the entire tree would be ground under repair.
Dan,
May 26th, 2009 at 8:59 amSome disqualification penalties get the entire team disqualified if one player commits it (See Rule 31-7). Others just disqualify the player in question for the hole being played. There are no penalties which would disqualify the player for the entire round without also disqualifying his partner. If a player gets injured or stops playing for a few holes, his scores on the holes he completed may be used.
Keith,
May 26th, 2009 at 9:03 amDistance measuring devices may be used at the Associate Club Championship as long as they do not have any functions for measuring things such as slope or wind speed. Information as to distance is not considered to be advice any longer so the information obtained from using an distance measuring device may be shared with anyone in the group.
Hi John,
May 28th, 2009 at 4:23 pmWith regard to your helpful answer above that there are no penalties which would disqualify the player for the entire round without also disqualifying his partner, what about the examples given in Decision 1-2/0.5? Rule 2-1 is not listed in 31-7 which would seem to be a dq for one partner but not the other. Or is the dq in these instances a committee decision which would bring Rule 33-7 into play, which is listed under 31-7 so that the side would be disqualified?
Dan,
May 28th, 2009 at 4:33 pmWhen you mentioned Rule 2-1, I assume you were still referring to Rule 1-2. Rule 1-2 would only disqualify the player for the hole unless the action assisted the partner (Rules 30-3f or 31-8). If the act was so egregious as to require a DQ, the only way that it might not help the partner is if his actions were in regards to his own ball. Obviously if he did anything to influence the partner’s ball it would help him. Also, if he did anything to influence someone else’s ball it would help the partner.
I had a situation during a match play round. We both teed off and hit our drives into the rough. I was walking and my opponent was riding out to find our golf balls. He got to a ball and hit it up on the green and then a few minutes later I got to the area where I thought my ball would be. After a five minute search, we couldn’t find my ball. Knowing that his ball was on the green and that I didn’t want to walk 250 yards back to the tee to play another ball, I conceded the hole. When he picked up his ball on the green he noticed that he had hit my ball. Does my concession of the hole still stand?
May 30th, 2009 at 1:40 amTom,
May 31st, 2009 at 4:49 pmWhen you opponent hit your ball, he lost the hole before you conceeded the hole. Therefore your concession does not stand. Decision 2-4/9 covers this exact situation.
A ball came to rest on a cart path (the side closer to the hole). Player requests for cart path relief. Question: does it matter which side of the cart path the ball ended up to determine the point of relief? Thanks
June 1st, 2009 at 9:00 amAidan,
June 1st, 2009 at 9:19 amWhen taking relief there is one nearest point of relief. The nearest point of relief is the CLOSEST point on the course that is NOT nearer the hole where the player would have no interference for his stance, the lie of the ball and his swing. To determine this, the player should take the club he would most likely use and take a stance as if he were addressing the ball at that point. Where the club comes to rest when in the address position would be the point. He can then drop the ball within one club-length of that point, no nearer the hole. The player does not get a choice as to which side of the path he can go to. If he goes to an area that is further away than the nearest point or is nearer the hole than that point, he would be subject to penalty for playing from a wrong place.
Please clarify the rule of a ball in motion and when it is in play. What is the penalty when your ball moves while a)you address it, and b)you’ve already started your swing. Is it in play on the teeing ground when you address it? Or after you actually hit it? Thanks!
June 2nd, 2009 at 1:10 pmDuring a recent round my ball came to rest in bounds. The local rule defining out of bounds stated white stakes. A fence that was clearly out of bounds interfered with my stance and swing. Was I entitled to relief under 24-2 (b)?
June 4th, 2009 at 10:54 pmAnother question regarding 4-ball dq possibilities: in an NCGA zone competition, if one side were to be disqualified under 31-7 because of something that happened during the fifth hole, for example, would any of the scores of those two players that would have counted for the team from the first four holes still count? Or am I imagining an impossible scenario?
June 5th, 2009 at 12:02 amDennis, You would not be entitled to relief. The definition of an Obstruction excludes any part of an immovable artificial object that is out of bounds.
June 5th, 2009 at 8:05 amDan,
June 5th, 2009 at 10:32 amThe Rules of Golf do not fully cover the Zone Competition format. We define the two players playing together as a “side” under the rules of golf. We require two scores per hole, but they can come from the same side which is where things get away the basic Rules. We say that it is ok for both players on a side to pick up on a hole. Our opinion on this is that if a player violates one of the Rules covered in Rule 31-7a his side will be disqualified and the other side’s scores must count for all holes. The same occurs if both partners are in violation of Rule 31-7b(i). But, if both players violate another rule (such as picking up or playing a wrong ball) as covered in Rule 31-7b(ii), we allow them to continue in a similar manner as covered in Rule 31-7c. If three players were to violate Rule 31-7b(ii) on the same hole, the team would then be disqualified because they would not have two valid scores for the hole.
Which options would be in place with this scenario? A shot is played from the fairway and enters a red stake(green cap) hazard and bounces out of the hazard and crosses over a cart path on the opposite side of the hazard and then enters a yellow stake(green cap) hazard on the other side of the cart path. Thank You.
June 8th, 2009 at 8:58 amBob,
June 8th, 2009 at 9:30 amIn determining the options a player has for a ball in a water hazard, the point where the LAST entered the hazard is what matters. In your case, the ball first entered the lateral water hazard (red stake), exited the hazard, and then finally reentered the water hazard (yellow stake). Since these stakes had green tops, the area is environmentally sensitive so you may not play the ball from inside the hazard. Therefore, the only two options you have can be found in Rule 26 as 26-1a and 26-1b. 26-1a allows you to play with a one-stroke penalty from where the previous shot was played. Rule 26-1b allows you to drop a ball outside the hazard with a one-stroke penalty keeping the point where the ball last crossed the yellow staked hazard between where you drop the ball and the hole.
Is there such a rule of a lost ball if it crosses a red stake hazard. In other words is there a two stroke penalty if you lose it. or does the one stroke lateral apply.
June 12th, 2009 at 10:42 amGary,
If it is known or virtually certain that your ball has come to rest in a water hazard (yellow stakes) or lateral water hazard (red stakes), you should proceed under Rule 26 which is the water hazard rule. As such, you can take relief from the hazard with a penalty of one stroke using one of the options described in Rule 26.
June 12th, 2009 at 11:30 amA player marks his ball on the putting green, and walks off the green a few yards onto the fairway while others chip onto the green. While he is waiting, he holds his putter in one hand, and taps his ball (which he has dropped on the turf of the fairway) repeatedly against the outside of his foot.
Has he incurred a penalty?
June 18th, 2009 at 1:31 pmPaul,
June 18th, 2009 at 1:38 pmWe do not believe this constitutes practice as he isn’t simulating a stroke. If he was doing it on the putting green, it could be ruled to be testing the surface, but since you said he was off the green there should be no penalty.
Whenever I play at my home course, I’m afraid of running into this particular situation in case I might do the wrong procedure. If my ball is resting against a tree and I am forced to make a left-handed stroke (I’m right-handed) but it puts my stance on a cart path, do I get relief? Thanks a bunch
June 20th, 2009 at 9:51 pmMichael,
June 21st, 2009 at 4:45 pmI think we get asked this question more times than it happens. If your ball is in a position that the left-handed stroke is a legitmate option because a normal stroke would not be possible and your stance would be on the path, you would get relief. You would determine your nearest point of relief with the left-handed stroke / stance. You could then drop within one club-length. If you could then hit it right-handed you would be allowed to do so.
during recent play a player drove his ball and landed on the cart path bridge which was crossing a laterial hasard on the right and a laterial hasard on the left Is this a free drop from the bridge or is the bridge considered part of the hasard?.
June 23rd, 2009 at 6:27 pmSam,
The definition of a water hazard states that it extends vertically upwards and downwards. Therefore a bridge that is over a water hazard is in the water hazard. There is no relief for an immovable obstruction in a water hazard so the player must either play the ball as it lies or proceed under Rule 26-1 – Water Hazards with the one stroke penalty found there. The player may ground his club on the bridge in attempting a shot from it.
June 24th, 2009 at 8:40 amGene,
June 24th, 2009 at 2:26 pmWhen they teed off on the wrong hole, they were in violation of Rule 11-5. They must discontinue play of that hole and go to the correct hole, adding a two-stroke penalty to the score of each player who played from the wrong teeing ground. Since all four of them did it, each would receive a two-stroke penalty and be hitting their third shot from the #1 tee. The ball they hit on #10 does not count in their score.
I recently pushed my tee shot right of a cart path and on a hillside. This hillside was primarily bare dirt and riddled with gopher holes and mounds created by these burrowing animals. We located my ball in a small hole where only the top of the ball was visible. Everyone in the group agreed I was entitled to relief due to abnormal ground conditions (rule 25) After dropping within 1 club length from the nearest point of relief, I was standing on another gopher hole.
Is it now my option to play after the drop since I took relief from the original hole and ended up with a very good lie? The others in my group said I did not take complete relief and must drop again. When I read the definition of abnormal ground conditions, it refers to hole, cast, or runway created by a burrowing animal. (singular) Do you treat each and every hole, cast or runway as separate conditions and have the option a play it as it lies and ignore your relief options?
June 26th, 2009 at 8:14 amGordon,
June 26th, 2009 at 8:51 amThe two holes are separate instances unless they are connected by a runway above the ground. Therefore, once you have taken relief from the first one, you can play the ball or take relief from the second. If the area was sufficiently large we would probably mark it as ground under repair and get the player out of all of it at once.
BLIND DRAW…What does NCGA prefer? Controversy over whether the Blind Draw should be identified in a 2 bb of 4. One school: the blind draw is not identified and the hole by hole score is used. It is the responsibility of the 4 some getting the blind draw to putt out because they only have 3 players. Second school: the blind draw should be identified and that the blind draw should putt out. Third School: whether the blind draw should win as a draw, or if the blind draw can only win with the foursome it actually played with on course. IT MAY BE THAT ALL ARE CORRECT, I JUST WONDERED WHAT NCGA’S THOUGHTS MIGHT BE… IF THEY EVEN HAVE ANY…. Thank you… I’ll look for a reply in my e-mails… Gini
June 26th, 2009 at 12:01 pmWhile using my legal GPS during a match play tournament, my opponent stated that I was absolutely REQUIRED to provide him distances. I told him by doing so I did not want to be DQ’d by giving advice. He was so sure he was right that he was willing to forefit the entire match if he was wrong. I provided distances when ever asked. Am I required to provide my opponent distances and can he be DQ’d by insisting?
June 28th, 2009 at 11:06 amGini,
There are no right or wrong ways to do a blind draw. Nothing in the rules cover it. The one thing I would say is that the Committee in charge of the competition can do what they want, but they should publish ahead of time so that nobody can complain after the event.
June 28th, 2009 at 8:15 pmBrett,
June 28th, 2009 at 8:18 pmYou are not required to give anyone else the information you get from your GPS and there is no penalty if you refuse to do so. Likewise, you are not penalized for giving the information. Distance is considered public information.
Hello, a few questions about raking
1. A player has hit a shot from a large bunker. The shot does not get out of the bunker and remains in, but the player needs to walk quite a distance to get to his next shot. Is he allowed to rake his first shot before playing his second, or must his ball be out of the bunker before it can be raked?
2. Under the same conditions, if the player gets out of one bunker, but hits into another, is he allowed to rake?
3. A player hits a ball from a bunker potentially out of bounds. He elects to hit a provisional ball. Is he allowed to rake the bunker before he drops/hits?
Thanks.
June 29th, 2009 at 11:21 pm-Scott
Scott,
June 30th, 2009 at 7:05 amException 2 to Rule 13-4 reads:
“After making the stroke, if the ball is still in the hazard or has been lifted from the hazard and may be dropped or placed in the hazard, the may smooth sand or soil in the hazard provided that nothing is done to breach Rule 13-2 with respect to his next stroke. If the ball is outside the hazard after the stroke, the player may smooth sand or soil in the hazard without restriction
Therefore in regards to your questions:
1) As long as you don’t rake the area where you’ll be standing for your next stroke, around the area where the ball is at rest or along the line of play for your next stroke, you can rake the bunker.
2) No restrictions as the ball is out of the bunker you hit from. Exception 3 makes this even clearer.
3) Even though you have to drop a ball in the bunker, there is no restriction as the ball is currently out of the bunker. The only restriction is if you lifted the ball and had to place or drop it.
My question….What is the distance I could tee my ball behind the tee box markers
June 30th, 2009 at 11:36 pmJohn – You have two club lengths behind the tee markers in which to tee you ball.
July 1st, 2009 at 12:00 amIn a “scramble” format, if one of the competitors breaks a club, may that competitor use a club from the bag of one of the other playing partners?
July 3rd, 2009 at 6:11 pmAnthony,
July 4th, 2009 at 11:21 amRule 4-3 tells that if a player breaks a club in the “normal course of play”, he can replace it with any other club, except that the replacement can not be made by borrowing a club that has been selected for play by any other person playing the course. Therefore, he is not allowed to use the club of one of his playing partners.
thanks…
also, after replacing a ball, in front of a “pegged” ball marker, on the green…as the ball marker is lifted, a tuft of grass is raised, behind the replaced ball…
is it permissible to push down the tuft to flatten the surface?
July 6th, 2009 at 8:03 pmAnthony,
July 7th, 2009 at 3:17 pmNo, the tuft of grass may not be repaired. Decision 20-1/15.5 says that the player must accept any worsening of the lie from these actions. If the tuft was pushed down, the player would be liable for penalty under Rule 13-2.
Our women’s 18′ers are holding our club championship. ( three day event) Can we give cash for prizes without jeopardizing anyone’s amateur status? In rule 3 on amateur status it clearly states one cannot accept cash as a prize. etc. etc.
July 7th, 2009 at 3:51 pmFor example: What is the difference between cash and a gift card from Macy’s or a chit from the pro shop?
Many women have stated they have played in amateur events at other clubs and cash was indeed given as a prize.
Thank you for the clarification. We want to preserve the integrity of the game and make the right decision.
Judy Wettstein
Judy,
July 7th, 2009 at 4:54 pmThe Rules of Amateur status prohibit cash prizes. Cash is what professionals play for. Gift Certificates may be accepted as long as they can not be converted to cash and are for a specific store such as Macy’s or the pro shop. They can not be something like an American Express certificate that could be spent anywhere. The total value of the award received by one player cannot exceed $750 for any one competition. If we or the USGA become aware of a club playing for cash, it could jeopardize the amateur standing of all the participants in the event.
We have a local rule at our golf club that states certain people get to tee off from different tee positions. For instance, the local rule states a woman gets to tee off from the red or white tees, depending on the tournament, while all other players, men, kids, etc. must play the blue tees. I feel it is a major tenant of the game of golf that my playing competitor, in my flight, play the same course set up that I play, such as the same tees and same pins. Most other local rules have nothing to do with the sex, race, or sexual preference of a player, and I was wondering if this local rule violates any NCGA rules. I feel men and women golfers should be considered equal players, and their play should be adjusted based on handicap, not the players sex. Is there anything that can be done?
July 8th, 2009 at 11:21 amJim, thank you for your comment. Your club is conducting your tournaments in a fine, even admirable way. Men and women golfers are NOT considered equal within the Handicap System. A 5-handicap man is a superior player to a 5-handicap woman. Think about what that 5-handicap means. In the simpliest terms it means that the upper half of a golfer’s scores are averaging around five strokes above the Course Rating of the tees that were played. And the Course Rating System recognizes a difference in the playing ability of men versus women. Specifically, that men tend to be stronger than women. That they tend to hit the ball longer and tend to escape deep rough and deep bunkers better than their female counterparts. The end product is that from just about any set of tees, the Men’s ratings will be lower than the Women’s. Here at Poppy Hills from the White tees, for example, the Men’s Course Rating is a full five stroke lower than the Women’s. So if a man and woman shot twenty identical scores from those tees, the man would wind up with a handicap about five strokes higher than the woman. By your club designating certain tees for men and women, they are attempting to have all contestants play from tees that are of comparable difficulty for their gender with similar Course Ratings. And if the ratings do not match up exactly, there is even an adjustment that will further level the playing field. I hope this answers your question, thanks again – Jim Cowan
July 8th, 2009 at 5:39 pmI know that if a ball is hit into a later hazard, it may be played from the opposite side of the hazard within two club lengths from a point equidistant from the pin to the original point of entry. Can it also be played on a line extending backward from the pin through that equidistant point? Thanks.
July 8th, 2009 at 9:55 pmSteve,
No, the only line that can be extended is the one from the point where the ball crossed. You can not go back on a line from the point on the opposite margin.
July 9th, 2009 at 12:50 pmWhile figuring scores for a handy cap the procedure states enter your adjusted score if you don’t have a handy cap what is the Max.score you can take on any hole?.Thanks Sam
July 10th, 2009 at 8:05 amSam,
July 10th, 2009 at 8:22 amFor the purpose of applying Equitable Stroke Control, a player who has not yet established a handicap should determine their course handicap using 36.4 as the base index. If the course handicap comes out to 30-39, the maximum score they could post is 9. If it comes out over 40, it would be 10. This “handicap” is only for the purposes of posting scores and not to be used as a handicap in a competition.
When an ameteur plays a scramble formatted tournament and wins, can he disberse his winning among his other teammates in order to keep his ameteur status?
July 13th, 2009 at 6:28 amRoland,
July 14th, 2009 at 10:26 amIf a player wins any cash or anything that it readily convertable to cash, he loses his amateur status regardless of how much it is or who he shares it with. If he wins gift certficates that exceed $750 he would also lose his amateur status. If it was a hole-in-one prize, he could keep it with no loss of status.
Yesterday, a player in my group stumbled and fell on his hands and knees while entering a bunker. (No injury except to his pride.) The fall took place several feet away from his ball, and Exception 1 to 13-4 says no penalty for touching the sand in such a situation, but what if he had stumbled and fallen such that the ball moved or the area of stance had been changed or if the lie of the ball had been altered? Is there still a penalty for moving the ball? (Usually the rules do not condone clumsiness), and can he restore the condition of the bunker to what it was before the fall?
July 16th, 2009 at 8:11 amDan,
You are correct that Exception 1 absolves the player from penalty for touching the sand as a result of or to prevent falling. But, it also says “Provided nothing is done that … improves the lie of the ball”
Therefore, if he has improved the lie of his ball, he would still be penalized. If the ball is moved, he would be penalized under Rule 18-2a. If the ball moved, it would be replaced and the lie recreated (Rule 20-3b(iii)). Nothing else can be restored.
July 16th, 2009 at 8:20 amI know the governing bodies responsible for writing the rules of golf carefully choose the vocabulary of the rules, and they are written to be as unambiguous as possible, which brings me to the wording of the rule you quote above: “Provided nothing is done that…improves the lie of the ball.” Is there any room for argument such that a penalty would not be imposed if the lie of the ball is worsened? The same wording is used in Rule 12 and probably elsewhere. “Improved” does lend itself to a certain level of interpretation. Does the word “improved” really mean changed?
July 16th, 2009 at 10:20 pmDan,
The rule is very specifically worded and you are right that there is no penalty for making your lie, area of intended swing or stance worse. Decision 13-2/29 says “If a player worsens the lie of his ball, the area of his intended stance or swing, his line of play or a reasonable extension of that line beyond the hole, or the area in which he is to drop or place a ball, he is not entitled to restore that area to its original condition. If he does so, he is in breach of Rule 13-2.” Notice that there is no penalty until one attempts to restore things.
There is a level of interpretation required in determining an action has improved one of the items above. Decision 13-2/22 talks about this in regards to knocking leaves off a tree with a practice swing.
July 17th, 2009 at 9:06 amIn a 4 ball match, our two opponents had holed out on a par 3 in 4 strokes. I was lying three about 4 feet from the hole and my partner was about 20 feet from the hole putting for a birdie. My ball was between his ball and the hole, but not necessarily “through the line”. I holed out my putt for a 4 while my partner watched, placed his ball and lined up his putt. Although he was behind me and watching my putt, he wasn’t offering any assistance, and I wasn’t even aware of his location on the hole at the time. Our opponents claimed this was a violation of Rule 14-2b although they thought the rule applied to my partner gaining a possible advantage because he could see the way my putt broke, not because I was getting advice from him. What would you rule?
July 19th, 2009 at 12:40 pmIs it ok to practice putt on a hole after the hole is completed during tournament strole play competition ?
July 21st, 2009 at 8:51 amIf a player hits a shot that strikes his equipment, there is a penalty. My question is does it matter if the equipment is out of bounds?
July 21st, 2009 at 4:01 pmJames,
July 21st, 2009 at 4:48 pmUnless the Committee has declared that the condition of the competition prohibiting practice on or near the previous green, you may practice as allowed in Rule 7-2. But, you may not delay play in doing so. The PGA Tour does use that condition in stroke play events which is why you do not see players practicing most weeks. The USGA does not which means that players can practice at events such as the US Open.
Jeff,
July 21st, 2009 at 4:48 pmIt does not matter if the equipment is in or out of bounds. It is still your equipment.
If I had a short putt and pulled the flagstick out with my left hand
July 23rd, 2009 at 9:37 amand putted the ball with my right hand.Is there a penalty?
Vince,
July 23rd, 2009 at 9:42 amThere is no penalty as long as the ball does not strike the flagstick. Decision 17-1/5 covers this.
John, in regard to 17-1/5, does the rule allow the flagstick be resting on the green, or does the player have to hold the flagstick off the ground while putting? Alternatively, can a player lean the flagstick on himself while putting?
As well, I have a question regarding Rule 7. If a facility has three 9-hole courses (A, B and C) and a tournament is scheduled to be played on A&B, is a player allowed to play or practice on C prior to a stroke-play tournament? Also, would he be disqualified if the tournament was changed to A&C prior to the start but without the player’s knowledge?
July 28th, 2009 at 2:40 pmUnder rule 25 is a player allowed relief if his ball is outside the “ground under repair” markings, but his stance is in GUR.
Thanks,
July 29th, 2009 at 5:59 amPhil
Scott,
The flagstick can be held off the ground or touching as long as it does not indicate a line for putting. There would be no problem with the player leaning it against himself.
As long as all of course C was out of bounds with respect to A and B, there would be no problem. If it was possible to hit a ball from a hole on A or B onto C from where it could be played, the player could not practice on C on the day of the event. If the Committee had published that the tournament would be played on A & B and then changed it to A & C, I would not disqualify the player if it was unreasonable for him to have learned of the change. The Committee should make sure that nobody accidentally played C.
July 30th, 2009 at 9:30 amPhil,
July 30th, 2009 at 9:32 amRule 25 gives relief for interference with the lie of the ball, the area of intended swing or the player’s stance. Therefore, you would get relief from GUR if your stance was inside the area.
What happens when my ball is carried away by a bird, yes a bird?
July 30th, 2009 at 10:27 amTaylor,
July 30th, 2009 at 10:32 amThe bird is an outside agency.
If your ball was at rest, under Rule 18-1, you would place a ball on the spot from which it was removed. If the exact location was not known, you would estimate the spot and drop a ball there, unless it was on the putting green in which case you would place the ball on that spot.
If your ball was in motion, under Rule 19-1, you would drop a ball as near as possible to where the ball was when it was picked up. Again, if it was on the green from a stroke off the green, you would place a ball on that spot. If it was on the green and in motion from a stroke on the putting green, you would cancel and replay the stroke.
There is no penalty.
I have a 9.7 index. What is the max score I can take on a par 3,4,5? Thanks
July 30th, 2009 at 4:03 pmWendell – You first have to convert your index to a course handicap. Your index, unfortunately, is right on the borderline. I would think you would mostly play to 10 strokes or higher, in which case your max score on a hole is a 7, regardless if its a par three, four or five. If, however, your course handicap is a 9, on an easier course, then you can only post a double bogey, so a 5, 6 or 7.
July 30th, 2009 at 4:09 pmIs it legal to use an electronic measuring device, such as a GPS unit, during play?
July 31st, 2009 at 5:24 amRobert,
July 31st, 2009 at 8:12 amIt is against Rule 14-3 to use a GPS or other electronic measuring device unless the course, or in the case of a tournament, the Committee in charge of the tournament, has implemented the local rule allowing the use of them as stated in the Note to Rule 14-3. Even then, the electronic measuring device can only measure distance and not have other functions that measure things like wind speed or the elevation difference between locations.
In a 4-ball match play competition, a dispute arose in the scoring area. Player A insisted she had a 3 on a hole; player C, the marker, says the score was a 4. Player B (A’s partner) agreed with A; player D agreed with C. No other players or spectators were available to add information. It was a classic “he said, she said” situation. The 3 wins the hole for A/B; a 4 for A is a half. Quoting Dec. 34-3/4 as “the weight of the evidence did not favor either competitor the benefit of the doubt should be given to A.” (Which seems correct to me). What should the committee do? Would flipping a coin be a good committee decision? If one side said, “no matter what, the end result of the match will be the same,” could the committee sidestep making a decision?
July 31st, 2009 at 4:15 pmDrew,
If the players have agreed that the match is over and that one side has won, it is too late to make any claims unless they were based on previously unknown facts and the Committee is satisfied that the opponent knew she was giving wrong information. This does not appear to be the case so the match stands as played. If the players agree that one side won the match or if the players on the other side conceded the match before raising this issue there is nothing that can be done.
It is for reasons such as this that players in match play should ALWAYS determine the scores at the end of EVERY hole so that there is no confusion and claims can be made in a timely fashion.
July 31st, 2009 at 4:22 pmThank you. What should the committee have done if the players were unwilling to agree who won the match? Or what should the committee decide in stroke play? Is 34-3/4 a guide in such a dispute situation?
July 31st, 2009 at 5:04 pmDrew,
The Committee should determine the facts of the situation and rule as best as it can. If the dispute is over the score of a particular player, they should interogate everyone who has knowledge. In the abscence of any compelling evidence to the contrary, the score as reported by the player who’s score is in question will probably be accepted. Decision 34-3/9 is a good guide as to what to do.
Also, Decision 34-3/5 states that if it is impossible to determine the state of the match, the Committee should act in the most equitable way which may mean having the match replayed.
July 31st, 2009 at 5:05 pmDuring the Senior Open, I watched a well-known golfer(aren’t they all well known on the Senior Tour?)walk into a sand bunker, in a cirle around his ball, and check the lie of his ball in conjunction with the line to the flag/green, then walked back out to look at the slope (?) of the green in relation to the flag. He then walked back into the bunker, around his ball, with his club and proceeded to hit the ball. My question is; why was he not penalized, as it was quite apparent that he was testing the consistency of the sand ? No one called him on it. I’ve seen this occur many times on the regular PGA tour, also, and the on the LPGA, and Nike Tours. Again, it’s quite clear they are disguising the true intent (testing consistency).
August 1st, 2009 at 1:08 amI’ve seen many pros address the ball with a putter, ground the club, then due to outside influence, or change of mind, back off from the ball, take a second or third look at the line, then re-address the ball before putting. Violation ?
August 1st, 2009 at 1:13 amPlease explain the difference between an “embedded ball” and “plugged ball” as this was a cause of controversy because an embedded ball can be moved, but, a plugged ball cannot.
August 1st, 2009 at 1:19 amTony,
August 1st, 2009 at 1:25 amA player may address the ball and then back away at anytime without penalty. But, the player is taking the risk that if the ball were to move for any reason after he has addressed it, he would be penalized one stroke under Rule 18-2b and must replace the ball. Once addressed, the only way to “unaddress” the ball would be to mark and lift it as allowed within the rules.
Tony,
Decision 13-4/0.5 covers testing the condition of the hazard. Walking around in the bunker and, starting in 2008, digging ones feet into the sand away from the ball is allowed.
August 1st, 2009 at 1:25 amTo quote the decision:”Examples of actions that would not constitute testing the condition of the hazard include the following:
• digging in with the feet for a stance, including for a practice swing, anywhere in the hazard or in a similar hazard;”
What would happen if you dropped a ball on a slope following the cart path rule, and falls in a water hazard?
August 1st, 2009 at 9:33 amWhat would happen if you dropped a ball on a slope following the cart path rule, and goes onto the green and rolls into the hole? If that was for your second shot, do you get a hole-in-one?
August 1st, 2009 at 9:34 amScott,
August 1st, 2009 at 9:53 amRule 20-2c states that a ball must be redropped if it rolls into and comes to rest in a hazard. If the ball were to roll into it again on a second drop you would place it where it first struck the course on the second drop.
Also in taking relief from a ball on a cart path that is through the green, the ball must be dropped through the green and not in a hazard.
Scott,
August 1st, 2009 at 9:54 amA ball which is dropped off the green and rolls onto the putting green must be redropped under Rule 20-2c.
In a recent Match Play match at our club, one competitor hit his ball in an area where there were a number of “repaired” burrowing animal holes. It looked as if our superintendent had tried to fill in these holes with dirt. The competitor’s ball came to rest in a filled in hole to where there was still an impression in the ground, but there was dirt under his ball (looked like a “fried egg” in a bunker, but this as on dirt). Does the competitor get free relief under Abnormal Ground Conditions in this instance. After the competitor made two good whacks at it, the ball finally broke through the filled in dirt and we saw the burrowing animal hole.
August 3rd, 2009 at 7:58 amTony,
August 3rd, 2009 at 11:01 amAn “embedded ball” is one which is come to rest in its own pitch mark. There is no term “plugged ball” in the rules of golf so I’m not sure what you mean and how it differs from an embedded ball. Under Rule 25-2, a ball which is embedded in its own pitch mark in a closely mown area through the green may be lifted, cleaned and dropped as near as possible but no nearer the hole. There is a local rule, which all organizations in the United States use which extends this relief to a ball that is embedded anywhere through the green except for a ball embedded in sand in the rough. There is no penalty for taking this relief.
Brian,
August 3rd, 2009 at 11:06 amA burrowing animal hole that has been filled with dirt is not, per se, ground under repair, but there would be no problem with the Committee declaring it as such if they desired. Before playing stroke, if in stroke play, the player should have played two balls under Rule 3-3. Since you said it was in match play, if he and his opponent had agreed that it was ground under repair before he made a stroke he could have taken relief. Once he had made a stroke, he could still get relief, but the stroke(s) taken would count.
During a 2 man, best ball match, Player A of team 1 putted out for a par. Player C of team 2 has a 10 foot putt for par. Player A thought Player C was putting for bogey and conceded the putt. Player B of team 1 said, “Stop. He’s putting for bogey.” Player C hasn’t lifted the ball marker yet. His partner, player D, insists that the putt was already conceded by player A and the hole should be halved. What’s the proper ruling?
August 4th, 2009 at 9:42 amEdit for post above:
Player B of team 1 said, “He’s putting for Parr. Don’t concede yet.”
August 4th, 2009 at 9:45 amAidan, Player D is correct. A concession can not be refused or retracted (See Rule 2-4). Therefore once A gave the putt the hole was halved.
August 4th, 2009 at 9:50 amI sometimes lie down on the green to read putts, with my entire body and hands touching the putting surface. I’ve been told many times by my playing partners that what I did was against the rule, that no part of the golfer’s body is allowed to touch the green except fingers. Often people cite Camillo Villegas as evidence, as Camillo hovers above putting surface withouth making contact with his body. By intuition I am confident I am right, as I’ve seen professional golfers did exactly the same thing as I did during competition. Please help.
August 4th, 2009 at 11:25 amTony, as long as you not doing something to test the surface such as rubbing your hand on the green or touching your line of putt for any reason other than the ones specified in Rule 16-1a, you are allowed to put your hand on the green. Decision 16-1d/4 confirms that you may touch the putting green for other reasons.
August 5th, 2009 at 1:11 pmIn stroke play, your opponent hits into the sand, in the face of the trap. Only a small portion of the ball is visible. Saying he needs to identify his ball as to not get a penalty forplaying the wrong ball, he gently brushes the sand away above the ball until he can see it is in fact his ball. Is that acceptable, or has he improved his lie?
August 6th, 2009 at 10:00 amGordon,
August 6th, 2009 at 10:45 amRule 12 covers searching and identifying a ball.
While searching for his ball, the player is proceeding under Rule 12-1. Rule 12-1 says that when searching for a ball in a bunker, the player may remove sand until he can see a small portion of the ball. If he removes too much sand, he must recreate the lie until only a small portion is visible.
Once a ball has been found, if he chooses to identify it, he is proceeding under Rule 12-2 and must follow the proper procedure outlined there. This procedure requires him to announce his intention to lift the ball to a fellow competitor or opponent, give that player the opportunity to observe, mark the ball and lift it from the sand. If it is his ball he must replace it and recreate the lie to the point where a small portion is still visible.
If it is his ball and he fails to follow this procedure, he is penalized one stroke. If he fails to replace his ball (including properly recreating the lie) he is penalized two strokes in stroke play or loses the hole in match play.
can a player’s caddie use his own personal putter to read putts for his player? Would it matter how many clubs his player carries? Woyuld the caddies putter count towards his players 14 clubs?
August 8th, 2009 at 3:40 pmDave,
August 8th, 2009 at 3:51 pmIf a caddie is carrying the clubs, they are considered to be the players clubs. Therefore the putter would be one of the 14 the player was allowed.
what is the proper proceedure for a drop when a ball is in a burroughing animal hole. i was playing a match with a fellow member and upon finding his ball in a hole, he picked up his ball and proceeded to take a drop without marking his nearest point of relief. i went ahead and called him out on a breach of proceedure. was i wrong?
August 8th, 2009 at 7:24 pmJose,
August 10th, 2009 at 7:54 amThe procedure for determining the nearest point of relief and the one club-length area within which the ball must be dropped is recommended, but not required. As long as the ball is dropped on a spot which meets the requirements and is played from a spot which would not require a re-drop the player is ok. If you have doubts about where the player dropped, you should raise them before he plays as he could correct any errors without penalty at that point by following procedure and determining if he was ok or not. Once he has played, you could still call him on it, but he would be penalized if he had dropped in an incorrect place or played from an wrong place.
I hit a drive (Franklin Canyon #10) toward a water hazard (a pond) but trees blocked sight of the ball’s flight. No one in the foursome could tell if the ball landed in the hazard, or cleared it. I declared that I was going to hit a provisional ball, and began teeing the ball within the tee box. The group behind me (who are other members of our club) informed me that I couldn’t use a tee. I proceeded to hit without a tee, and eventually my first drive was “lost”.
Two questions: 1. Was I entitled to use a tee under Rule 20-5? 2. Was I entitled to play a provisional ball under Rule 27-2?
I’m not sure I understand Rule 27-2. If a ball MAY be lost in a water hazard, then at the same time, the ball MAY be lost outside of the water hazard. From this tee box, there was no virtual certainty whether the ball was in the water hazard, or if it was really lost at all.
Jack Wholey
August 10th, 2009 at 12:47 pmJack,
August 10th, 2009 at 3:13 pm1) Rule 20-5 is the rule which specifies what to do when playing from a previous spot. It states that if the ball to be played must be played from the teeing ground, you may play it from anywhere with the teeing ground and it MAY be teed. Therefore the other group was wrong
2)If the only place a ball may be lost is a water hazard you may not hit a provisional, but if there is a possibility of it being lost somewhere else, you are entitled to hit the provisional. At that point, you would have to establish with virtual certainty that the ball was in the hazard before you could proceed under one of the options of the water hazard rule. Without that virtual certainty your original ball would be lost and you would continue with the provisional. If you do determine that you have virtual certainty, you would abandon the provisional and proceed under Rule 26.
A player hits his tee shot into a maintenance yard. Thinking the ball is OB he hits again from the tee. When he gets to his second ball, he sees a sign that says that the maintenance yard is actually an obstruction area so he would be allowed a free drop with his first ball. Is it accurate that as he did not proclaim his second ball a provisional the second ball is now his ball in play and the first ball must be abandoned? Do the rules allow for ignorance of local rules?
August 12th, 2009 at 1:43 pmDrew,
August 13th, 2009 at 10:07 amWhen the player played the second ball from the tee without declaring it a provisional, it became his ball in play under Stroke and Distance (Rule 27-1). He is laying 3 with that ball and must abandon the original ball. Rule 6-1 states that the player is responsible for knowing all the Rules including local Rules.
1 There is a latteral water hazard running down the right side of a fairway and to the right of the water hazard is out of bounds. My question is. What is the ruling if the tee shot lands out of bounds right and then rolls back into the water hazard? What are my options.
August 16th, 2009 at 8:26 amBuzz,
August 16th, 2009 at 8:22 pmYour ball is deemed to have entered the hazard at the point where it cross from out of bounds into the hazard. There are usually 4 options on where to drop for a ball in lateral hazard. In this only 2 are available. You could go back to the tee and replay from there with a one stroke penalty, or you could find the spot on the opposite margin of the hazard from the point it entered the hazard that is the same distance from the hole and drop within two club-lengths of that point, no nearer the hole with a one stroke penalty. This is one of the times when the final option for lateral hazards of going to the opposite margin is most useful.
I was pitching my ball on to the green and one of the players was already on and had not marked her ball. My ball struck hers and I was penalized 2 strokes. This doesn’t seem right to me?
August 17th, 2009 at 7:02 amAurora,
August 18th, 2009 at 9:13 amYou should not have been penalized. The only time you are penalized for hitting another ball is if both balls started on the putting green in stroke play(Rule 19-5). Since your ball was off the green when you hit it, there is not penalty for your ball colliding with another ball. If you were playing match play, there is never a penalty under Rule 19-5.
A player hits his shot into a gtrrnside bunker and throws his club. The club goes into the bunker with the ball. He picked up the club and threw it out of the bunker and used another club to hit his shot out of the bunker. What is the ruling?
August 18th, 2009 at 3:12 pmMike,
August 18th, 2009 at 3:22 pmSince Rule 13-4 allows a player to place his clubs in the sand as long as he isn’t testing the hazard, there is no penalty as long as the player did not have the club in his hand when it made contact with the sand, it did not move the ball and there was no improvement of the area of intended swing, his stance or the line of play for the next shot.
I am confused on a ruling because I get different answers to this question regarding 26-1/3.5. A player drops a ball under 26-1b because he is virtually certain his ball is in a water hazard. After dropping the ball, he finds his original ball outside the hazard.
USGA states the you still play the drop ball and add another stroke if you find the original ball. This is a though one. What is the ruling and how many stroke do I incur including the lateral drop.
Thx
August 18th, 2009 at 3:52 pmRaul
Raul,
August 19th, 2009 at 8:25 amSince it was virtually certain that the ball was in the water hazard, once you have dropped another ball under Rule 26, your original ball is lost. When it is found, regardless of where it was, you can not play it. It is highly unlikely that a ball that was virtually certain to be in the hazard would be found outside it, but it does occasionally happen. In this case, you would receive a total of 1 penalty stroke under Rule 26 regardless of where the ball was found.
Follow up question to the answer from John Vander Borght August 19th, 2009 at 8:25am:
So, you do not receive an extra penalty stoke when finding the original ball? And, how do you determine “known and virtually certain”?
Thx again,
August 20th, 2009 at 9:43 amRaul
Raul,
August 20th, 2009 at 10:28 amAs long as the player was “virtually certain” that the ball was in the water hazard, he has proceeded correctly under Rule 26 so there is no additional penalty when the ball is found. If there was a lack of virtual certainty, he could not use Rule 26 and should have used Rule 27 – Lost Ball and returned to where he hit the previous shot with a one-shot penalty.
The meaning of “virtually certain” is contained in Decision 26-1/1. It reads:
If a ball has been struck towards a water hazard and has not been found, the term “known or virtually certain” indicates the level of confidence that the ball is in the water hazard that is required for the player to proceed under Rule 26-1. A player may not assume that his ball is in a water hazard simply because there is a possibility that the ball may be in the hazard. If it is not known that the ball is in the water hazard, in order for the player to proceed under Rule 26-1 there must be almost no doubt that the ball is in the hazard. Otherwise, a ball that cannot be found must be considered lost outside the hazard and the player must proceed under Rule 27-1.
All available evidence must be taken into account in determining whether knowledge or virtual certainty exists, including any testimony and the physical conditions in the area around the water hazard. For example, if a water hazard is surrounded by a fairway on which a ball could hardly be lost, there exists a greater certainty that the ball is in the hazard than there would be if there were deep rough in the area. Observing a ball splash in a water hazard would not necessarily provide knowledge or virtual certainty as to the location of the ball as sometimes such a ball may skip out of a hazard.
The same principle would apply for a ball that may have been moved by an outside agency (Rule 18-1) or a ball that has not been found and may be in an obstruction (Rule 24-3) or an abnormal ground condition
Lateral water hazard.
August 21st, 2009 at 2:33 pmDo you have to be able to see the hole/green in order to bring the ball back as far as you want from the point of entry.
Peter,
August 21st, 2009 at 2:35 pmNo, you do not have to be able to see the hooe, but you need to make your very best estimate of the position of the hole when determining how to drop under option 26-1b.
John,
August 21st, 2009 at 9:15 pmI love the service provided by “Stump the Rules Wizard” but wonder if readers should impose a penalty to the Wizard under 3.2 for failing to hole out. In order to see the current posting we’re required to scroll down past months of rulings. Would it be possible for the Committee to do some computer magic under 1.4 (equity) and reverse the order of the postings so the most recent post is the first listed? Perhaps you could impose 16-1b and mark, lift, clean and replace the postings most recent to oldest…thanks for the great column. :)
Dennis – While we can reverse the order, that would make every question and answer read as if it were an answer then a question. So while the current format does require an extra few seconds of scrolling, it does preserve a much easier set-up. Thank for contributing.
August 21st, 2009 at 9:17 pma player hits his ball to the green and it lands in the fringe and leaves a ball mark, His ball stops in the fringe and the ball mark ( in the fringe)is in his intended line of play. Can he repair the ball mark before his nest shot.
August 22nd, 2009 at 7:21 amAlso same situatioin only his ball stays in the in ;the ball mark, he get a free drop, embedded ball, can he repair his ball mark before he makes his drop.
Thanks
John,
August 22nd, 2009 at 7:22 amThe ball mark may not be repaired if it is off the green and is near or on the player’s line of play. Once the shot is played, you should repair it.
A player hits his ball and the ball strikes a no cart sign that is placed in front of green. Since these signs are placed in different locations everyday does the player re hit or play it as it lies
August 22nd, 2009 at 11:37 amShaun,
August 23rd, 2009 at 4:56 amThis is an example of “Rub of the Green” which is when a ball in motion is deflected by an outside agency. There is no relief and the ball shall be played as it lies. Of course, if everyone abandoned their golf carts and started walking the course, we could get rid of the signs, but don’t get me started on that.
Played in a tournament this morning with a gentlemen who proceeded to dig a hole in soft dirt behind his ball where it laid. His ball did not move. What is the ruling on this? Can you really dig a big trench behind your ball?
August 25th, 2009 at 9:41 amSharlene,
August 25th, 2009 at 9:44 amA player may not improve his lie by removing dirt, sand or loose soil through the green. By doing so, he is subject to a 2-stroke penalty in stroke play or loss of hole in match play. Loose impediments such as gravel or rocks could be moved.
Is there a reason no one answered my question?
Aurora writes:
I was pitching my ball on to the green and one of the players was already on and had not marked her ball. My ball struck hers and I was penalized 2 strokes. This doesn’t seem right to me?
August 17th, 2009 at 7:02
What is the ruling
August 26th, 2009 at 6:37 amAurora,
August 26th, 2009 at 9:40 amYour question was answered on August 18. Here is the answer again:
You should not have been penalized. The only time you are penalized for hitting another ball is if both balls started on the putting green in stroke play(Rule 19-5). Since your ball was off the green when you hit it, there is not penalty for your ball colliding with another ball. If you were playing match play, there is never a penalty under Rule 19-5.
During a tournament, or any round for that matter, can a player use a training aid, such as a 2 foot long weighted shaft, in the middle of the round?
August 26th, 2009 at 8:42 pmAlan,
August 27th, 2009 at 4:10 amThe use of a training aid during the is against the rules. Decision 14-3/10 covers this. The penalty is disqualification. Here is the decision:
Q. During a round, may a player make a stroke or a practice swing using a club with a weighted headcover or “donut” on it, or use any other device designed as a training or swing aid?
A. No. The player would be using an artificial device to assist him in his play in breach of Rule 14-3, but see also Decision 4-4a/7 for use of a weighted training club. (Revised)
Upon entering a sand trap, is there a penalty for taking a rake with you and dropping it in the trap near your ball prior to hitting your ball?
August 27th, 2009 at 3:26 pmSteve,
August 28th, 2009 at 8:20 amThere is no penalty as long as you do not test the hazard when you put it down. Decision 13-4/0.5 specifically states “Examples of actions that would not constitute testing the condition of the hazard include the following:
… placing an object such as clubs or a rake in the hazard”
In match play, a singles match involving player A vs. player B. Player A has a caddie for the duration of the match(same caddie). Player B does not. A third player, player C, his apponent is a no show. Player plays 10 holes with no apponent and wins match. At the 11th hole, can player C caddie for Player B? Thanks for your time, Gregg Bargas
August 31st, 2009 at 2:47 pmGregg,
I assume the Player who played 10 holes is Player C. It doesn’t matter if he plays any holes. He won the match when the other player didn’t show up on time for the match.
Can he caddie for B? Only if he is not playing. A person can not caddie and play at the same time.
August 31st, 2009 at 7:47 pmIn stroke play, Player A finds his ball 1-2 feet from fence which is part of Out of Bounce markings. Player A cannot take a stance to strike the ball. Does he get free relief because the fence interferes with his swing, or must he call it “Unplayable Ball” and take a 2 club ball drop with a penalty?
September 3rd, 2009 at 9:50 pmDennis,
September 4th, 2009 at 8:15 amBy the definition of an obstruction, any object defining out of bounds is not considered an obstruction from which free relief is granted under Rule 24. Therefore, the player must either play the ball or declare it unplayable and proceed under one of the three options of the unplayable rule with a penalty of one stroke. The options are 1) Return to where he made his last stroke from; 2) Drop behind where the ball lies keeping that point directly on the line between the flag and where he drops; 3) Drop within two club-lengths of the current lccation of the ball, no closer to the hole. There may be times such as the one you describe where option 2 is not possible. This is the same for both stroke play and match play.
I have heard the following from two different sources. Is it correct?
A player thinks they’ve hit there tee ball into a lateral hazard. The player drops, hits his 3rd shot, then walks towards the green and finds his original tee ball. The players is allowed to play his original tee ball without penalty BECAUSE IT IS CLOSER TO THE HOLE THAN THE BALL HE DROPPED.
Could this possibly be correct?
Thanks.
September 4th, 2009 at 5:19 pmDavid,
September 5th, 2009 at 7:44 amNo, depending on the situation the original ball is lost when the new ball is dropped or played.
If it was known or virtually certain that the ball was in the water hazard, the original is lost when the new ball is dropped under the water hazard rule (Rule 26-1 and definition of a lost ball).
If it was not known or virtually certain, the original ball is not lost when the ball is dropped under Rule 26-1 as that Rule can not be used in this case. If the ball was found inside 5 minutes and before the other ball was played he could continue with the original using Rule 20-6. But, once the ball has been played, the original is lost. At that point, the player would have to correct his play under Rule 27 (Lost Ball) and return to the tee with a stroke and distance penalty and a 2 stroke penalty for playing from a wrong place.
There are a number of decisions which cover all these possibilities: Decisions 26-1/3, 26-1/3.5, 26-1/3.7, 26-1/4.
If player 1 hits his ball on the green let’s say 2 feet from pin but player 2 hits his shot and it moves player 1 ball back to 5 feet. Where does player 1 ball get marked??
September 6th, 2009 at 6:31 pmRobert,
September 8th, 2009 at 8:03 amWhen a ball at rest is moved by another ball, it is always replaced on the spot where it was before being moved. If the spot is not known exactly, the location should be estimated. If the ball was on the putting green, it would be placed at the estimated spot. If it was off the green it would dropped as near as possible to that spot, but not nearer the hole.
A player hits his ball into deep rough. He spots a ball, looks at it, decides it is not his ball, picks it up and continues to look for his original ball. After a few moments (still within the five minute search time) he realizes the ball he picked up is indeed his ball. (He wasn’t wearing his glasses, I guess). There is a one stroke penalty for lifting his ball without marking it first as he should have done in order to identify his ball. As he has walked around a bit after picking it up, the best he can do is estimate where the ball was located when he picked it up . If he estimates the spot, places the ball in a lie as close as possible to what it was in before he picked it up, is the one stroke penalty the only penalty?
September 9th, 2009 at 8:39 pmDrew,
September 10th, 2009 at 8:12 amThe player is penalized one stroke under Rule 18-2a for lifting his ball in play. He is required to replace the ball. Since he does not know the exact spot, Note 3 in Rule 18 tells us that he should see Rule 20-3c. Rule 20-3c tells us that if it is impossible to determine the place where the ball is to be placed, throught the green it should be dropped as near as possible to the estimated spot, but not nearer the hole, in a hazard or on a putting green. If he has not yet played the ball, he can correct his error of placing the ball under Rule 20-6.
Once he has played it, Decision 18-2a/21.5 tells us he receives the general penalty under Rule 18 which is a total of two strokes in stroke play or loss of hole in match play.
Greetings… This question is more about “when” a particular rule changed. I was recently watching the golf channel which had some old Masters highlights dating back to probably sometime in the 60′s. I noticed that when one of the players was dropping a ball, the pro dropped the ball over his shoulder (behind his back) blindly. It actually looks quite humorous by today’s standards! To me, it’s clear that dropping in the “old version” disallowed the player from trying to find a decent grassy drop area, but I’m guessing too many balls hit themselves on the “reverse drop” causing delays? I’m curious – when did this obscure rule change & why? Thanks! David
September 11th, 2009 at 4:27 pmHere’s a start to answering your question. Below are two quotes from the Rules of Golf, 1980 and 1984, which tell us when the rule changed. The why answer will come from one of the Rules Wizards:
1980:
Rule 22. Lifting, Dropping and Placing.
2. Dropping . How to Drop- A ball to be dropped under the Rules or Local Rules shall be dropped by the player himself. He shall face the hole, stand erect, and drop the ball behind him over his shoulder. If a ball be dropped in any other manner and remain the ball in play (Def. 5), the player shall incur a penalty stroke.
1984:
20-2. Dropping and Re-Dropping
September 13th, 2009 at 2:24 pma. By Whom and How- A ball to be dropped under the Rules shall be dropped by the player himself. He shall stand erect, hold the ball at shoulder height and arm’s length and drop it. If a ball is dropped by any other person or in any other manner and the error is not corrected as provided in Rule 20-6, the player shall incur a penalty stroke.
David,
September 14th, 2009 at 10:13 amAs Dan pointed out, the rule changed with the 1984 rules revision. The old style of dropping was to prevent a player from being able to drop in certain spot, but it was deemed unneccesary and was changed to speed up play by eliminating the need for redrops when the ball struck the player.
During a recent Club Tournament it was discovered that one of the players in a foursome had what is known to be a “Practice Club” in his bag, bringing his total club count to 15. Is there a penalty for having this “Practice Club” in the bag and if so is it the maximum of 4 Strokes as covered under Rule 4-4. Also his playing partners discovered this on about the 12th hole of the round and never brought this to his attention. After the conclusion of play the player with the 15 Clubs heard (not from his playing partners but by word of mouth) that he might be in violation of the 14 Club Rule. He immediately came forth with this information to the Tournament Committee (which was already aware of the situation) and indicated that the additional club was a “PRACTICE DEVICE/CLUB” and was not used or intended to be used during the tournament. The score card was not yet finalized and the tournament committee agreed to delay a decision until consulting with the NCGA for a formal ruling.
Also, Is there any rule “requiring” the playing partners to notify him of the possible rule infraction, and if they do not notify him can any penalty be accessed to him if the tournament committee is aware but not formally asked to investigate the infraction.
September 14th, 2009 at 12:17 pmRonald,
Since the training aid was not used, there is no penalty under Rule 14-3.
As to its being a 15th club, the answer depends on whether the aid meets the definition of a golf club. A club is designed for striking the ball. If the training aid is designed for striking the ball, he is subject to penalty.
If not, he would not.
If the training aid then met the full specification of a golf club it would be a 15th club and he would be penalized under Rule 4-4. If it did not meet the specification (say it had a shaft which hinged such as a Medicus), he would be penalized under Rule 4-1. In either case since he didn’t use it, it would be a total of 4 strokes in penalties applied as 2 strokes on each of the first two holes he played.
Given that he found out about the problem before his score card was returned, the fellow competitors probably should not be penalized. If they had purposely allowed him to return a card without applying a penalty that they knew he had committed, they should also be disqualified under Rule 33-7 as is covered by Decision 6-6a/5.
If the Committee was aware of the problem before he brought it to them, I would hope that they would have discussed it with him before allowing him to return his card.
September 14th, 2009 at 1:16 pmPlaying the Club Championship tournament, a player did not verify their score hole for hole with the scorer. They just signed the card without verifying if the score was correct. Is there a penalty against that player?
September 14th, 2009 at 5:46 pmLois,
September 15th, 2009 at 7:07 amThere is no problem as long as hole-by-hole scores are correct. A player isn’t required to verify it. Her signature is all the verification that is required. But, if there is an incorrect score on the card, she must pay the price. If she signs for a score on a hole which is lower than she made, she is disqualified. If she signs for a score that is too high, she will get that score. The player should always check the hole-by-hole scores and make sure that she and her marker have signed the card.
Hi, when playing in a medal a player plays offthe wrong tee then realises his mistake then plays from the correct tee what is the ruling for it?
September 15th, 2009 at 10:04 amCarrie,
September 15th, 2009 at 10:06 amThe penalty for playing from a wrong tee in a stroke play event is a two-stroke penalty and it must be corrected before the player plays from the next tee. If he fails to correct it before teeing off on the next hole, he would be disqualified.
In match play, there is no penalty, but his opponent could recall the shot immediately and make him play from the correct tee.
Here is my situation. I am in the rough, very tall rough. As I take a stance, a sprinkler is in my stance. When taking relief from the sprinkler can I take relief in different terrain? Such as fairway, if that is the nearest point of relief. Thank You in advance.
September 17th, 2009 at 12:44 pmMy friend tee’d off across a yellow water hazard barranca at Stanford Hole #12. She was right behind a small tree but cleared the hazard by 50 yards. On her next shot her ball hit the tree and bounced backwards into the Yellow staked hazard 50 yards behind her.
September 18th, 2009 at 12:51 pmHer options: 1. go in the hazard and find the ball- NO
2. stroke and dist: drop another from the
spot she just played
3. Go behind the hazard and drop a ball-keeping the
spot where it crossed the hazard between her dropped ball and the hole (this may be on the teeing ground but she may not re-tee?)
Are there any other options? Thanks, Robin
Dan,
September 18th, 2009 at 3:36 pmThere is no distinction between the rough and the fairway in the Rules when taking relief from an obstruction or ground under repair. So, if you can reach the fairway from where your ball sits, you got lucky. Just remember that it can also go the other way at times.
Robin,
September 18th, 2009 at 3:36 pmThere are no other options for a hazard that is marked with yellow stakes or lines.
Thank you John, I have a follow up question. If your ball lies just off the green on the fringe and again you have a sprinkler in your stance. Can you take relief on the green? If that is your nearest point of relief? Thanks again.
September 18th, 2009 at 5:09 pmDon, in taking relief from ground under repair or obstructions the ball must be dropped through the gren so you may not drop on the putting green in this case.
September 18th, 2009 at 6:00 pmA player’s ball lands on a dirt and gravel maintenance road between two fairways. He chooses to play the ball as it lies. There are a few small stones behind his ball which he removes without disturbing the ball. He addresses the ball and at the beginning of his backswing slowly drags the club head along the ground removing more stones and dirt. Without stopping he completes the stroke and hits the ball into the fairway. Has the player violated Rule 13-2 for improving the area of his intended swing? If so, could he have avoided the penalty by removing all the stones prior to addressing the ball?
September 20th, 2009 at 12:53 pmJohn,
September 23rd, 2009 at 1:41 pmThe stones are not a problem as long as they were loose. The removal of the dirt would normally be a problem, but Rule 13-2 says it is not a problem as long as he only lightly grounded his club and removed any dirt in making the stroke or the backward movement of his club for a stroke and the stroke is made. So, as long as he does complete the stroke, there is no penalty in this case.
are ball retrievers on the end of putters legal
September 27th, 2009 at 1:36 amBob,
September 28th, 2009 at 8:33 amWhile attachments to clubs are generally not allowed, the rubber cups that attach to the end of the putter to pull the ball out of the hole are explicitly allowed.
Is a Chipper club a legal club?
September 29th, 2009 at 11:59 amRichard,
September 29th, 2009 at 1:07 pmThe specifications for a golf club are quite complex so it is difficult to answer this question. In general, if the chipper has only one face designed for striking the ball, a single grip, and a straight shaft it probably is legal. Putters have specific exceptions to these rules.
If in making a practice putting stroke the ball is accidentally moved is the player penalized?
I think the answer is no since the ball has not been addressed and there was no intent to strike it.
The ball should be replaced under no penalty.
Thanks I have a bunch of forum “experts” that aren’t buying what I am suggesting.
October 1st, 2009 at 9:33 amFrank,
October 1st, 2009 at 1:52 pmThe answer is that there is a penalty stroke. Rule 18-2a states that if the ball is accidentally moved by the player or his equipment, he is penalized one stroke and the ball must be replaced. If it is not replaced, the penalty becomes two stroke in stroke play or loss of home in match play. Rule 18-2b covers a ball moving after address even if it it not touched by the player.
During a tournament round, I address my 2nd shot on a par 4, which was lying in the right ruff (actually the location was the right side of the fairway, in fair play, in a fairly large unmarked dirt patch). As I addressed the ball, my iron barely nicked the ball causing it to move ever so slightly, although never moving from its original position. I did however touch the ball with my club at address. I hit my 2nd shot within about 4 feet and sunk my putt. I then called a 1 stroke penalty on myself and carded a par 4 on that hole. My playing partners say that I should not have incurred a penalty at all, citing Rule 18.2 wherein. “A ball is deemed to have “moved” if it leaves its position and comes to rest in any other place.” I on the other hand disagree and feel the penalty should stand, because I was at address when my club touched the ball. Your help in clarifying the rule and helping to settle this is greatly appreciated. With many thanks!
October 5th, 2009 at 1:43 pmThomas,
October 5th, 2009 at 2:18 pmAs long as the ball came to rest in its original position, there is no penalty under Rule 18-2. You touched it accidentally and it didn’t move so there is no penalty.
A rather clumsy golfer accidentally drops his putter while in the process of marking his ball on the green. The ball did not move; however, the putter left a fairly large indentation on the green on the line of putt. Questions: is there a penalty for touching the line of putt? Can the indentation be repaired?
October 6th, 2009 at 4:59 pmDan,
October 7th, 2009 at 7:39 amif the player did this accidentally and did not improve his line of putt, there is no penalty (this is analogous to Decision 16-1a/12). The damage may not be repaired until after the player has putted (See Decision 13-2/29).
On an unfamiliar course, I hit a drive off the tee and it did not clear the yellow-staked hazard, so I drop with the point of entry between me and the hole and play my third. When I clear the hazard and walk to the other side, I find that there is a marked drop zone which is not mentioned in the local rules. Am I entitled to play three again from the drop zone that takes 100 yards off the distance? What if I hit my first drop into the hazard again and then hit five? Can I then reset and hit three from the marked zone?
October 12th, 2009 at 11:35 pmon the teeing ground. a player has teed the balled and steps back for a few practice swings. swinging along the target line the player takes a divot that knocks his ball from the tee. how does the player proceed?
October 13th, 2009 at 9:20 amCampbell,
October 14th, 2009 at 2:38 pmOnce you put the ball in play by dropping it behind the hazard, you could not pick up that ball and use the dropping zone instead. The drop you took was a correct drop and can not be undone.
Steve,
October 14th, 2009 at 2:41 pmA ball is not in play until a stroke is made at it with the intent to hit it. Therefore, the ball was not in play and you can retee it within the teeing ground and will be hitting your first shot.
I have a question about bunker relief. my ball was in a fairway bunker and when i got to my ball, the whole bunker was like quicksand.
October 21st, 2009 at 4:00 pmIt rained hard a few days before and did not dry out. The whole bunker was unplayable but no GUR signs were around. What was the correct drop or ruling in this case.
Ken,
October 22nd, 2009 at 8:24 amIf there was visible water in the bunker, you could take relief under Rule 25 (Abnormal Ground Conditions) for casual water. If you did that you would have two choices. Drop at the point in the bunker, not nearer the hole that gave you maximum relief with no penalty, or take a penalty stroke and drop outside the bunker, keeping the point where the ball had been between the hole and where you dropped the ball. If you chose the second option you could go back as far as you liked.
Normally if there was no casual water visible, the only way out of the bunker would be to deem the ball Unplayable and proceed under Stroke and Distance.
But, if you felt that the area should have been marked as GUR but wasn’t, you could play two balls under Rule 3-3, one as it lay and one, using one of the options described in above and ask the Committee for a ruling before returning your scorecard.
Order of play in Match Play. When a player A claims ready golf because he see his opponent walking from a cart path to a ball that lies considerably further from his lie to the green and proceeds to hit first, I believe I can tell him to replay the shot. It is amazing that player A and others like him want to speed up the game and ruin the rhythm and drama that match play provides. How much time does a player in trouble have to make his next shot in a match play format?
October 27th, 2009 at 1:15 pmNorm,
October 27th, 2009 at 1:19 pmYou are correct that if a player plays out of turn in match play, his opponent can immediately recall the shot and require him to play in turn. As for how much time a player has to play his next shot, it really is up to the Committee in charge of the event to establish pace of play guidelines and enforce them.
There has been a question regarding members receiving cash for prize money. I looked in the rules book regarding this question and amateur status and could not find it.
November 5th, 2009 at 5:08 pmJoan,
November 5th, 2009 at 5:42 pmThe Rules of Amateur status at the back of the rule book state on page 142 “3-1 Playing for Prize Money – An amateur golfer must not play golf for prize money or its equivalent in a match, competition or exhibition.” The awards for any competition should be gift certificates or specific prizes which can not be converted to cash. The only exception to this is for optional games during the competitons. For example, if a tournament is awarding prizes to the first 5 places, these must not be cash or cash equivalents. If they also wanted to have an OPTIONAL skins game for the players, that could pay cash as it is not required to participate in the tournament.
I was playing the other day and my ball happened to roll into a bunker. When I got to my ball, I saw that it was being held up by a rake in the bunker. If I were to move the rake, my ball would roll down the slope. My group told me to pick up my ball, move the rake and then proceed to put the ball back where it was. But when I tried, the ball would easily roll down the slope of the trap. My question is, should I replace the ball and if it rolls, that’s where I play it? Or, should I dig it into the sand in order to make it sit where it was originally sitting? It doesn’t seem fair to go with the latter of these two, becuase my ball, although it was against the rake, was by no means dug into the sand. I could probably see 90% of the ball. RULING???
November 10th, 2009 at 2:18 pmCurt, your question exemplifies why the USGA would prefer rakes to be kept out bunkers. First, you shouldn’t lift your ball when moving a movable obstruction. Decision 20-3d/2 covers the rest of your question:
November 10th, 2009 at 3:33 pmQ. A ball came to rest against a movable obstruction, a rake, in a bunker. When the rake was moved the ball rolled nearer the hole. According to Rule 24-1, the ball had to be replaced. Due to the slope and the fact that the sand was firm, the ball, when replaced, rolled closer to the hole.
Under Rule 20-3d, if a ball will not come to rest on the spot where it originally lay, it must be placed at the nearest spot not nearer the hole where it can be placed at rest. The spot where the ball originally lay was farther from the hole than any other part of the bunker. Thus, there was nowhere to place the ball at rest in the bunker that was not nearer the hole. What is the proper procedure if:
1. The only way the ball would remain at rest at the spot where it lay would be to press it lightly into the sand?
2. The sand is so hard that it is impossible to replace the ball?
A. There is nothing in the Rules permitting a player to press his ball lightly into the sand or ground to make it remain at rest. Accordingly, in either case, since the player could not place the ball in conformity with the Rules, he should proceed under the stroke-and-distance option of the unplayable ball Rule (Rule 28a) or, in equity (Rule 1-4), drop the ball, under penalty of one stroke, outside the bunker, keeping the point where the ball lay directly between the hole and the spot on which the ball is dropped.
The same principle would apply if a player is proceeding under any Rule and the ball will not come to rest in the bunker at a spot not nearer to the hole than the appropriate reference point.
Which gloves are legal. I have seen golfers using baseball batting gloves, Gardning gloves which are made of cloth and have pin head sized rubber bumps in the palm and fingers. I have been using regular golf clubs and cutting the fingers off for feel. These gloves fall apart rapidly and unevenly. I have found that weight lifting gloves work great because they have no finger or thumb material and last a long time. Is this type of glove ok for ncga tournament play.
November 14th, 2009 at 2:35 pmDean,
November 16th, 2009 at 10:33 amIt is difficult to rule on things like gloves without actually seeing them. Rule 14-3 says that “plain gloves may be worn.” In general this means that there should be no ribbing or other raised areas that guide the hands into a specific grip. The best thing to do is to ask to speak with one of our staff at the next tournament you play in for a ruling on your specific glove.
I belong to a traveling, affiliate golf club which includes both men and women members. During tournament play, is there a precedent, rule, or tradition that allows for a male to play from the red tees? There was an assertion that a high handicap player (30+ index) could play from the red tees and we’re looking for the background.
Thanks
November 16th, 2009 at 1:06 pmBrett,
November 16th, 2009 at 2:12 pmIf the red (or forward) tees have been rated for men, there is no reason that they can not be used. If the players are playing in a handicap competition, their handicaps should be adjusted as described in Section 3-5 of the NCGA Handicap Manual. If those tees have not been rated, a rating can be calculated using the table found in Section 5-2 of the manual on page 35.
Thanks for your prompt reply. I don’t have a copy of the NCGA Handicap Manual but will go look for one. On the typical scorecard, the red tees have a slope and course rating. Does this mean they are rated for men? Or is the listed values assume they are for women?
November 16th, 2009 at 2:41 pmBrett,
Usually the forward tees are rated for the women. They are only rated for the men if the course asked for them to be rated. If they are rated for both, the ratings would be identified as men’s and women’s ratings. Sometimes they are rated, but the course doesn’t put it on the scorecard. Ask the pro shop if they have been rated for men.
The USGA’s copy of the handicap manual can be found on-line at http://www.usga.org/Rule-Books/Handicap-System-Manual/Handicap-Manual/
November 16th, 2009 at 3:01 pmIf a ball embeds just outside of a red or yellow hazard line but the ball finishes partially under such a line is the player still entitled to a drop for the embedded ball? In most cases where the ball finishes determines its location. I’m hoping that for an embedded ball where the ball first becomes embedded would determine its location and, in this case, give the player relief?
November 23rd, 2009 at 4:11 pmmy question is what are the 10 rules governing caddies in the WGA and the 9 rules governing caddies in the USGA?
November 24th, 2009 at 12:11 pmDrew,
November 25th, 2009 at 11:36 amDecision 13/4 says that a ball which is embedded is considered to be lying in the part of the course where it entered the ground. Therefore the ball is considered to be embedded outside the hazard.
Eddie,
November 25th, 2009 at 11:39 amI’m not sure what the 10 rules regarding caddies of the WGA are. The only rule the USGA has regarding a caddie is Rule 6-4. It simply says that a player may be assisted by a caddie and that he can only have one caddie at a time. Decision 6-4/10 covers 7 acts which a caddie may perform without a player’s authority.
Decision 20-2c/4 (ball stopped by caddie before re-drop required) tells us the ball must be played from where it was stopped or replaced at that spot if it was lifted. What would be the ruling if instead the ball were re-dropped? Does the re-drop lead to playing from a wrong place and now the total number of penalty strokes is four?
November 26th, 2009 at 10:07 amRick,
November 26th, 2009 at 2:37 pmDecisions 20-2c/2 and 20-6/1 both state that when a ball is dropped instead of being placed it would be a two-stroke penalty. Since the failure to replace the ball is a separate act from the caddie’s stopping the ball, the player would be penalized two more strokes for a total of four. If the player becomes aware of this before playing the shot, he could lift and place the ball as required under rule 20-6 with no second penalty.
Please explain the purpose of the multiple Tee Boxes. Are Tee Boxes “Gender Specific”?
November 28th, 2009 at 12:14 pmCarol – The purpose of multiple boxes is to provide various yardages for players of different abilities to play from – the longer the hole the more challenging it is. Tee boxes are not gender specific though some courses might choose to label its tees in this manner. You can play from any tee you choose to best fit your game.
November 28th, 2009 at 11:27 pmA player hits his ball into GUR. He decides to play the ball from GUR and hits it OB. Can he play the stroke and distance next shot from a GUR relief spot or must he play the next shot from the previous spot inside the GUR? Decision 18-2a/8.5 seems to say it must be played from GUR. What if the player plays the first shot from GUR somewhere into the same GUR. Can he now take GUR relief?
December 1st, 2009 at 11:07 amDrew,
December 1st, 2009 at 11:21 amDecisions 18-2a/8 and 18-2a/8.5 both involve the player going straight to the point of relief rather than returning to the original spot from which the shot was played. In both those cases, the player could deemed his ball unplayable and returned to the previous location under Rule 28a and then, after dropping, taken relief under Rule 25. Similarly, if your ball ends up OB, you must play under stroke and distance. Therefore, you must first drop a ball as near as possible to the point from where the previous stroke was made. If, after dropping, you have interference from the GUR, you could take relief under Rule 25.
As for the ball which is played from the GUR and ends up in another part of the same GUR, the player could take relief by determining his nearest point of relief from where the ball ended up after that stroke.
We approached the green and noticed that the group in front of us damaged the hole putting the pin back in. My question is can we fix the damage to the cup before we putt or do we have to wait until we finish the hole?
December 1st, 2009 at 1:39 pmAngela,
Decision 16-1a/6 covers this situation. If the damage is due to a ball mark, you may repaire it. If not, and the proper dimensions have not been materially changed, you should play without repairing it. If you do repair it, this would be a violation of Rule 16-1a. If the proper dimensions have been materially changed, you should request a member of the Committee to repair it. If a Committee members is not readily available, you may repair it without penalty.
Once your group has completed play of the hole, you may repair the damage.
December 1st, 2009 at 1:58 pmRegarding the GUR questions: why doesn’t Decision 20-3a/3 apply in these cases?
December 2nd, 2009 at 9:51 amDrew,
December 2nd, 2009 at 10:13 amDecision 20-3a/3 does not apply since the ball was moved by a stroke, not by the actions of some agency as in Rule 18. If the ball was hit OB as in your original question, it doesn’t have a valid position on the course from which to take relief until it is put back in play under Stroke and Distance. Therefore, there is no location from which to take relief under Rule 25.
Is there going to be a clarification of the use of GPS golf programs on smart phones during tournament play in 2010 by the USGA. I have a requested a ruling from the USGA and have not heard back from them. The NCGA has stated that they are illegal.
December 5th, 2009 at 7:11 amTom,
The USGA and R&A issued a few weeks ago. It can be found at: http://www.usga.org/news/2009/November/USGA-R-A-Joint-Statement-On-Electronic-Devices/
The relevant section regarding smart phones is:
“3. Multi-functional devices such as mobile phones, PDAs, etc (i.e., devices that are primarily communication devices, but which may have other potential uses) may be used as follows:
· The device may be used for any non-golfing purpose (e.g., as a communication tool to phone, text or email), subject to any club/course regulations and the rules on accessing advice-related matters – see Decision 14-3/16.
· When the local rule is in effect, a distance-measuring application may be used, provided the specific application is restricted to “distance only” and the device does not have any other “non-conforming” features. This is the case even if these other features are not being used. As above, the rules on advice-related communications (including the use of the internet) still apply. ”
So, if your phone has a compass, a clinometer or some other prohibited function on it, you may not use it as an electronic measuring device.
December 5th, 2009 at 11:05 amSince Rule 14-3 penalty is disqualification, I am assuming you can use a smart phone in a practice round and would be able to post a score based on such round. Is this correct or is use of such device prohibited for any round that you post?
December 6th, 2009 at 1:21 pmIn match play, the ball is hit from the t-box – in play but also in an adjacent fairway to the hole being played. Another player from the adjacent fairway (mistakenly or purposely) hits said ball, finishes the hole with incorrect ball, leaving his ball in the sand. What is the ruling for the player in match play that is no longer able to finish the hole with his ball?
December 6th, 2009 at 7:07 pmTom,
December 7th, 2009 at 9:41 amWhile the rules for posting scores for handicap purposes generally require that a round be played in conformance with the Rules of Golf, the Handicap procedures do allow for rounds played with devices that measure distance when such are prohibited should still be posted.
Carol,
December 7th, 2009 at 9:45 amRule 18-1 covers the case of a ball moved by an outside agency. If it is known or virtually certain that the ball was moved (played in this case) by the outside agency, the player is required to place the ball on the spot from which it was moved. Note 1 to Rule 18 states, “If a ball to bve replaced under this Rule is not immediately recoverable, another ball may be substituted.” Therefore, the player should place another ball on the spot. If the spot is not known exactly or the lie has been altered, you should see Rule 20-3.
A player hits his ball onto a cart path. He lifts the ball and states to an official, a fellow competitor or just to himself that he won’t be hitting it off the path, but he’s not sure whether to drop it under Rule 24 because of the probable very bad lie awaiting at the NPR or to declare the ball unplayable and proceed under 28-b or c. After a few moments of thought the player decides to declare the ball unplayable which will allow him to drop in a much better spot. Because he never committed to Rule 24, can he drop under 28 with only a one stroke penalty and avoid the “additional penalty stroke under 18-2a” as described in Decision 18-2a/12.5 #2?
December 7th, 2009 at 9:27 pmI know you are not allowed to give information on what club to hit or what club you used to anyone in your foursome but are you allowed to tell some one to take a deep breath and relax before they hit their shot?
December 9th, 2009 at 9:00 amThanks
Angela Jones
Dan,
December 9th, 2009 at 10:30 amThe difference between your case and Decision 18-2a/12.5 is that the first sentence of that decision states “A player elects to take relief from an immovable obstruction … and lifts his ball.”
In your case the player has elected to do something, but what is not yet clear to him or to others. Given that, he should be able to determine which course of action he wants to take and then proceed without any additional penalty stroke.
Angela,
December 9th, 2009 at 10:59 amAdvice is defined as “any counsel or suggestion that could influence a player in derterming his play, the choice of a club or the method of making a stroke.” It is a fine line as to what is advice and what isn’t. For exampe, a casual comment such as “Take your time” when a player goes up to hole out a short putt is probably not. Telling someone to “take a deep breath and relax before hitting the shot” probably would be if it was intended to assist the player in any way.
John VB response from Dec 7 to whether scores can be posted for handicap purposes when using a GPS enabled smartphone (with other functionality) , seems to contradict the decision in the USGA Handicap Manual. Comment?
5-1f/2. Scores Made Using a Distance-Measuring Device
Q: Are scores made using information generated from a Distance-Measuring Device acceptable for handicap purposes?
A: In certain situations, yes. If the Distance-Measuring Device measures distance only, the score is acceptable for handicap purposes, regardless of whether the Committee has established a Local Rule allowing the use of a distance-measuring device. However, the use of a device that gauges or measures other conditions that might affect a player’s play (e.g., wind or gradient) is not permitted and makes the score unacceptable for handicap purposes, even if these capabilities are disabled or not used. (REVISED)
December 9th, 2009 at 4:24 pmTom,
December 9th, 2009 at 5:35 pmA score may not be posted if a player has used a “non-conforming” or “illegal” distance measuring device (measures more than just distance). However, if a player uses a “conforming” (distance only) electronic distance measuring device when the local rule for such devices has not been adopted, then the score may be posted.
John’s answer referred to the later instance.
We all know if you hit your own equipment while hitting the ball
it is a two stroke penalty. If you use a cart and your bag is on it,
and you hit the cart, it also is a two stroke penalty.
We had a situation in a tournament where two people were sharing
a cart. The driver parked the cart some where near the green
and left. The other person in the cart played a shot that hit the
cart. Since he did not park the cart there, is he penalized the
two strokes for hitting the cart since his equipment was on it??
We have had two answers to this question that contradict each other.
Do you have to be the last person to drive the cart to be penalized?
Please advise.
Thanks,
Paul
December 10th, 2009 at 7:59 pmPaul,
December 11th, 2009 at 8:57 amActually, it is only a one-stroke penalty for striking your equipment. See Rule 19-2. The only time a player is not penalized when he strikes his cart is when it is being moved by someone else. See Note 2 under the definition of equipment. In your description, the cart was at rest when the ball struck it so it would be a one-stroke penalty to the player that made the stroke.
Can a player who has been a long standing member of both a private club and a public course play in the Pub Links competition?
December 12th, 2009 at 2:04 pmNo. A player with playing privileges at a private course is not eligible for the Public Links. Please see the NCGA’s Rules and Regulations at http://www.ncga.org/rules-competitions/rules-regulations-policies/
December 13th, 2009 at 11:01 amRule 12 tells us that if a ball in an obstruction or in an abnormal ground condition is moved accidentally there is no penalty. But what if a ball in such a condition is moved intentionally? For example, a ball is on a shed in an obstruction area and the player intentionally pushes the ball off the top of the shed. Or a ball is stuck in a staked tree so the player intentionally shakes the tree to get it down. Now, it would seem that no penalty would apply in these cases also, but what rule tells us so? Is it the same as the player who has a ball stuck in a tree, and before knocking it down states that he will take the unplayable lie penalty?
December 18th, 2009 at 10:25 amWhat is the ruling on holing out? My friend says that he can finish his putt even if I my putt is further out that he is. He says he has the right to finish. I say I have the right to either let him finish or make him mark.
December 18th, 2009 at 10:36 amRule 12 (Searching and Identifying Ball) states that “during search” there is no penalty for accidently causing the ball to move when it lies on an obstruction. If a player accidently causes their ball to move other than during search it is a one stroke penalty under Rule 18-2. When proceeding under Rule 24 (Obstructions) and Rule 25 (Abnormal Ground Conditions…) the player is required to use “the” ball. In you examples, the player is allowed to move the ball in the process of retrieving it and there are no guidelines in the Rules of Golf that describe the method in which a player may retrieve a ball.
December 18th, 2009 at 10:40 amFrank,
December 18th, 2009 at 10:50 amThe first question I have to ask is whether you are playing match play or stroke play? If you are playing match play it is more important that the ball further from the hole be played first. If a player in match play plays out of order, his opponent may recall the stroke. In stroke play, a player may play out of order without penalty as long as it isn’t done to assist anyone. Please refer to Rule 10 (Order of Play)
Ryan, a question arose the other day relative to ice in a bunker (it rained the prior night and hard froze in the morning, the ball was on an iced over sand area) whether relief is entitled. I believe I found the reference to snow & natural ice in the Definitions…the player can optionally use casual water or loose impediments. Since in the bunker (not loose impediments), I assume relief under Rule 25 abnormal ground conditions. Am I correct?
December 18th, 2009 at 2:23 pmThanks, regards and Merry Xmas
Kirk Straw
Kirk,
December 18th, 2009 at 2:46 pmYou are correct. Since the natural ice lies in the bunker, the player would not be able to remove it without penalty. However, the player would be entitled to releif, without penalty, for casual water and take releif prescribed in Rule 25-1b(ii). Merry Xmas to you too.
On course I play there is a drainage ditch (French Drain ?) mostly covered by sod but with a few openings where gravel can be seen.Ditch is at most 12 inches wide. Ball comes to rest in sod on the ditch.No local rule in effect. Player wants free relief .Is player in a water hazard and thus must proceed under rule 26-1(b) ? or play ball as it lies? His choice . Thanks
December 19th, 2009 at 11:46 pmLowell,
December 20th, 2009 at 8:52 amThe player would not be entitled to relief from the French Drain unless the committee has adopted a local rule deeming all of those areas as Ground Under Repair or marking them as such. If the player wishes not to play from the area, he would have to proceed under Rule 28 (Ball Unplayable). French Drain’s are not considered a water hazard.
A French Drain is a small trench in the ground that is normally covered by stones or gravel, which will allow surface water to drain away from an area that is prone to water build up and/or flooding.
On the 16th tee, the gentleman we’re playing with tees his ball up, takes a practice swing, then addresses the ball. At the top of his backswing, his ball drops backward off the tee – normally a player would stop at that point, re-tee the ball, and hit away. But this gentleman has such a long backswing, turning his head right along with his shoulders, that he doesn’t see the ball fall off the tee. He moves into his downswing and makes absolutely beautiful contact with his tee, carrying it a good five yards, but his club passes over his ball entirely. Is this considered a stroke, or does the ball falling of the tee constitute golf’s version of a “timeout” and allow him to re-tee?
December 20th, 2009 at 6:18 pmJohn O.,
The definition of a stroke is the forward movement of the club with the intention of striking the ball. By your description, the player intended to strike the ball when the club was moving forward. The rules do allow a player to hit a ball that is falling off a tee without penalty (Rule 11-3). However, since he whiffed, it is a stroke and he has to play the ball as it lies.
December 21st, 2009 at 9:40 amWhile on the tee box I pick up a broken tee from the turf and tee up my drive…. Have I broken any rules by using this tee? Thank you…..
December 25th, 2009 at 7:55 pmOur weekly groups play various 4-ball games and all goes well except for the one guy who has to redo putts much too frequently for my taste after we’ve finished a hole. Decision 30-3f/12 may well help speed things up especially if the penalty also applies to such practice putting if a member of the other side tees off first on the next hole. Or does the penalty only apply to when the partner of the practice putter tees off?
December 26th, 2009 at 11:41 amTony,
December 26th, 2009 at 11:45 amIt is not a violation to use a found tee as long as it conforms to the Rules. See definition of Tee and Rule 11-1.
Drew,
December 26th, 2009 at 12:08 pmIn Decision 30-3f/11, the penalty only applies if the partner has started the play of the next hole. The Committee has the right to adopt a condition of competition that prohibits practice on or near the putting green of the hole last played. See Note 2 to Rule 7-2.
In the fairway there is a 2′ x 2′ drain with a grate. Around the drain is a severe slope and the drain cap is below the level of the fairway and the drain is located on a hill. I know you get relief if your ball comes to rest on the drain or your regualr stance puts your foot on the drain grate/cap. But, what if your stance is on the severe slope surround the drain but not on the drain cover itself? Are you entitled to relief without a penalty?
January 5th, 2010 at 5:17 pmBret,
January 5th, 2010 at 5:40 pmThe player would not be entitled to releif for any area surrounding the drain unless the Committee has marked those areas as ground under repair or has deemed them as such. Rule 24-2 (Immovable Obstructions) only grants releif for three forms of interference– lie of ball, stance and area of intended swing.
While searching for his ball in his drive cart, a player runs over his ball in the fairway rough (the first cut). This caused the ball to become embedded. Two questions:
Q1. Should the player be penalized for running over his own ball (in his own cart – own equipment)?
Q2. Does he get relief from the embedment?
Thanks!
January 5th, 2010 at 6:09 pmGeorge,
January 6th, 2010 at 9:01 amThe player is penalized one-stroke for causing his ball to move under Rule 18-2a. According to Rule 20-3b, the player must place the ball in the nearest most similar lie that is not more than one club-length from the original lie, not nearer the hole and not in a hazard. If the original lie and location are unknown the player would proceed under Rule 20-3c and would have to drop the ball as near as possible to where it lay.
We’ll be holding a stroke play tourney with about 100 players in which a dozen or so super seniors will be playing from a different set of tees than the rest of the field. The USGA hdcp. manual provides an example of such a situation and states the men playing from the back tees (higher rated) should receive an extra stroke or two based on the rating difference. Does it make any difference in hdcp. equity for the field if, instead of hoping 90 players will figure their hdcp. properly by ADDING the proper number of strokes, we (the committee) just deal with the dozen playing from the middle tees and SUBTRACT the proper number of strokes from the hdcps. of those players?
January 6th, 2010 at 9:59 amDan,
January 6th, 2010 at 10:38 amYes, it is permissible to subtract the strokes from the smaller number of players. See Decision 3-5/1 in the USGA’s Handicap Manual.
It is my understanding that in a tournament the committe is respnsible for adding the scores on the score card, and it is the players responsibility to only be sure that the correct score for each hole is recorded. If this is true what should be done when the winners are announced and the winner is contested because the committee added the score of another player wrong? Should the committe change the standings to reflect the correct standings ? If the committe fails to act after being shown shown their error what can a player do ?? Thank you for your time.
January 9th, 2010 at 4:09 pmJacob,
January 10th, 2010 at 10:17 amYou are correct that it is the Committee’s responsibility to add the competitor’s score. When the Committee makes a mistake of this kind they must rectify it. Please see Decision 34-1/6. Unfortunately, if the Committee fails to correct their mistake the player has no recourse. The Committee is right even when they are wrong. The Committee always has the right to refer their decision to the Rules of Golf Committee of the USGA per Rule 34-3.
One of the guys in our group the other day decided to adjust the weight of his driver between the play of holes 4 and 5. We didn’t really care if he did it, but we knew he violated Rule 4. However, in discussing the situation we were unsure how the penalty would be assessed if we had been in a tourney situation. The note to Rule 4-2 says in case of a breech between holes the penalty is applied to the next hole. What if after being told he can’t make such an adjustment, the player immediately declares his club out of play, and, as he never moved from his seat in the cart and carried the club anywhere is there still a penalty on the next hole? Decisions 4-2/2 and 4-4a/1 seem to give a bit of leeway to the player in similar situations. If there is a penalty and we’re playing match play do we play that next hole and see who wins it and then make the adjustment in the score or is the next hole just a loss and there’s no need to even play it?
January 12th, 2010 at 9:58 amRick,
January 12th, 2010 at 10:23 amOnce the player makes any type of adjustment to his club, he is penalized. Since the adjustment took place between the play of two holes, the adjustment to the state of the match would occur after the play of the next hole. Decision 4-2/2 and 4-4a/1 are different in the sense that 4-2/2 refers to the adjustment of a club and 4-4a/1 refers to adding a club.
I was told by a friend that she saw the following incident: a player hits his ball into a moving golf cart. The driver of the cart (maybe deaf) didn’t realize what had happened and drove probably fifty yards before stopping and making it possible to retrieve the ball. Besides the possible penalties for hitting equipment or an opportunity to replay the shot, where should the ball be dropped? I’m thinking the player would just make the best possible guess at the spot where the ball first went into the cart. Is that correct?
January 12th, 2010 at 11:12 pmEd,
January 13th, 2010 at 9:10 amThe player that made the stroke would not be penalized. See Decision 19/1. In match play, the player may choose to replay the stroke. If the player chooses not to replay the stroke or in stroke play, the player would drop the ball at the spot where the ball entered the cart. See Rule 19-1.
What is the maximum score I can take on any hole for posting purposes if my index is 13.3. What are the other maximums
January 13th, 2010 at 3:48 pmDenis,
After you have applied your Handicap Index to the applicable Slope Chart, the following Equitable Stroke limits apply to your Course Handicap:
9 or less = Double Bogey
January 13th, 2010 at 4:00 pm10 through 19 = 7
20 through 29 = 8
30 through 39 = 9
40 or more = 10
A question about playing a wrong ball (stroke play): A plays B’s ball. By the time ownership is established and A’s ball is found, neither A nor B can be sure exactly where B’s ball was when A played it, for there is no divot or other landmark. According to Rule 15-3b, the owner, B, “must place a ball on the spot….” Does B get to place the ball on an estimated spot, or must he now drop the ball as the players are just making their best guess as to where the ball was located?
January 16th, 2010 at 9:46 pmQuestion about moving a ball marker on the green. Player A marked his ball in compliance with rules, then was asked to move the marker by player B. Player A used his putter to measure distance from the marker, then placed his ball at the end of the putter and then marked this location and picked up his ball. After player B had putted, player A reversed all these steps, placed his ball in the original location and putted. Player B says that even though the ball was putted from the correct location, the procedure is not withen the rules and therefore a penaly should be added to played A score. Although the method is unorthodox, is it against the rules? If so, what is the penalty in stroke play for this offense? Thank you.
January 17th, 2010 at 4:19 pmDrew,
January 17th, 2010 at 6:32 pmSince the players did not know the exact spot, the player must drop the ball at the estimated spot. See Rule 20-3c. Replacing the ball means getting the ball back in play on a spot or in a location. Therefore, sometimes you place it and sometimes you drop it.
Doug,
January 17th, 2010 at 6:40 pmThe Note to Rule 20-1 states “The position of a ball to be lifted should be marked by placing a ball-marker, a small coin or other similar object immediately behind the ball. If the ball-marker interferes with the play, stance or stroke of another player, it should be placed one or more clubhead-lengths to one side”. This is a recommended procedure. The player needs to make every effort to make sure that the ball is replaced in its original location. Otherwise, the player would be penalized two strokes for playing from a wrong place, Rule 20-7.
Thanks Ryan. So to be clear, what I understanding your answer to be, is that after marking with a coin like object, if the marker is moved, and, when all is said and done, if the ball is in the original location before being putted, then there is no penalty to be added. So while this is not the usual way to move the marker, it is not against the Rules of Golf.
January 17th, 2010 at 8:18 pmWhile playing recently, I hit my iron shot into the green and it landed on a steep slope on the green. I was a bit surprised when my ball did not roll down the slope, but as I reached my ball, i saw that it had lodged up against its own pithmark thus not allowing it to roll down the slope. I contended that I could repair the pith mark without marking the ball and if the ball moved then I could play from where it came to rest. My playing partner said I had to mark the ball and place it in a place where it would not move. What was the correct procedure? Thanks for the help.
January 18th, 2010 at 4:45 pmBobby,
January 18th, 2010 at 5:21 pmSee Rule 20-3d. If a ball when placed fails to come to rest on the spot on which it was placed, there is no penalty and the ball must be replaced. If it still fails to come to rest on that spot it must be placed at the nearest spot where it can be placed at rest that is not nearer the hole and not in a hazard. However, if the ball when placed comes to rest on the spot on which it is placed, and it subsequently moves, there is no penalty and the ball must be played as it lies, unless the provisions of any other Rule apply.
Decision 25/5.5 tells us that a spider web is consider a loose impediment. So it would be okay to remove a large spider web that interfered with the back swing of a stroke?
January 18th, 2010 at 8:29 pmThanks for your response of Jan. 17 clarifying the correct spot for the wrong ball. My follow-up question is: what is the rule’s logic or rule’s vocabulary that has the rule read “must PLACE a ball on the spot…. instead of, as you suggest, “must REPLACE a ball on the spot…
January 19th, 2010 at 9:13 amEd,
January 19th, 2010 at 9:15 amYes, it permissible to remove a spider web that is interfering with the backward movement of the club for a stroke. Decision 23/5.5 states that a web made by a spider is a loose impediment, even if it is attached to another object.
Drew,
January 19th, 2010 at 11:18 amIn general….Replaced means getting the ball on the specific spot. Placed means putting a ball on the specific spot where the former ball was a rest or a specific spot determined by the Rules, i.e. Rule 20-3c. The Rules of Golf are a bit inconsistent in its uses.
Is it against the rules of golf to stand behind your line of putt on the green while a fellow competitor is putting? Your line is not on the same line as your competitor and you are out of the competitors view while he is putting.
January 19th, 2010 at 3:22 pmMichael,
January 19th, 2010 at 3:30 pmIt is permitted under the Rules to stand behind and analyze your putt while a fellow-competitor plays. For etiquette purposes, it is best to do so without distracting the fellow-competitor.
What is the procedure for taking a drop in a hazard after a shot is hit OB? We had a drive off the tee slowly roll into a marked water hazard (lake) but stopped partially submerged at the water’s edge. The player hit the ball from the water and it went OB. What are his options? Where does he drop the ball? How close to the original spot? If he dropped it at the waters edge at the spot of his previous shot it would almost certainly roll into the lake and be unplayable. If he dropped it a club length away (still within the hazard boundary)it would likely stay dry and improve his lie over the previous shot. He actually placed it partially submerged to recreate the previous shot and rehit the ball (hitting 4) but this does not seem correct since he did not drop the ball. I told him he had to redrop within one club length of the original location within the hazard and if it stayed out of the water he could hit it (hitting 4) and if it rolled into the water he would then be assessed another stroke and could drop where he originally enterred the hazard (hitting 5). Who was correct?
January 27th, 2010 at 10:03 amDavid,
January 27th, 2010 at 12:31 pmSee Rule 26-2 and Decision 26-2/1. When the player’s second shot came to rest out of bounds the player was required to take a penalty stroke and drop a ball from where he had just played from (in the water hazard) or take an additional penalty stroke and drop under his options of the water hazard rule (Rule 26). When dropping in the hazard, if the ball rolls into a place where it cannot be played and it doesn’t need to be redropped under the Rules, the player still has the option of taking a one stroke penalty and proceeding under his options of Rule 26. A player cannot proceed under Rule 28, Ball Unplayable, when his ball lies in a water hazard or lateral water hazard.
If the player chooses to drop from where he just played (in the water hazard), is he allowed one club length from the spot of the previous shot?
January 28th, 2010 at 8:16 pmDavid,
January 29th, 2010 at 9:54 amRule 26-2b(i) states that the player must play the ball as nearly as possible at the spot in the hazard from which the original ball was last played. Rule 20-5c says that it must be dropped.
The maintenance crew left a pile of branches trimmed from nearby trees in the space between two fairways. The assumed intent is to clear them away at some later time. I hit a drive into the pile of branches. The ball was not visible in the pile. How should I proceed?
January 29th, 2010 at 5:11 pmTom,
January 29th, 2010 at 6:29 pmBy definition, material piled for removal is considered Ground Under Repair even if not marked. The player is entitled to relief for ground under repair as prescribed in Rule 25. For a ball lost in the ground under repair, the player would determine the spot in which it last crossed the margin of the ground under repair and use this spot for determining the nearest point of relief. The player is then entitled to one club-length of relief from that spot that is no nearer the hole. See Rule 25-1b(i) and 25-1c(i).
were french drains ever covered under the rules of golf?
February 5th, 2010 at 10:48 amTerry,
February 5th, 2010 at 1:31 pmI beleive there was a reference to French Drains at one time in the Rules of Golf. However, I have yet to find it. I have seached back to 1974 and have not found anything. I will continue the search and if I find something I will report it here.
I think I remember the term be defined at one time. If you can’t find it between 1974 and 1968 then it’s not in there because I began playing in’68
February 5th, 2010 at 3:24 pmA right handed golfer hits his ball against an out-of-bounds fence. The ball is still in play. He cannot take his usual right handed stance because the outof-bounds fence prevents him from doing so. He proceeds to take a left handed stance, (on the other side of the ball) so that he can take a full left handed swing.
On doing so, he finds that his left handed stance, put him on a cart path.
Can he seek relief from the cart path and in doing so, get relief from the out-of-bounds fence?
My second question, is:
Can you play with the back end of a club, putter or iron?
Thank you
February 6th, 2010 at 9:50 amGary Crocker
yes to both questions
February 6th, 2010 at 11:14 amDo the options for relief from a water hazard,through the green, apply to a ball putted too hard and it rolls off of the green and into a water hazard?
February 6th, 2010 at 5:17 pmGary,
I agree with Terry. See decision 24-2b/6.
February 7th, 2010 at 8:22 amTed,
February 7th, 2010 at 8:31 amYes. See Rule 26-1. However, one of the options is to play a ball as nearly as possible from which the original ball was last played under penalty of one stroke (26-1a). The player would place the ball on the putting green (Rule 20-5d).
Is there a written rule for the maximum distance that the tee
February 7th, 2010 at 12:27 pmblocks should or can be placed from the tee yardage markers,
such as 10 or 20 yards. This can have an effect on posting
scores for (GHIN) handicaping.
A player has a very long putt and doesn’t bother to ask anyone to tend the flagstick. The putted ball subsequently hits the flagstick or even goes in the hole while it is being tended by a fellow competitor who thought he was doing a favor for the player and began tending the flagstsick after the stroke and without the authorization of the player. Who gets the penalty if any?
February 8th, 2010 at 1:45 amDave,
February 8th, 2010 at 9:30 amTee markers should be placed so that the course plays to its rated length. All markers DO NOT have to be placed at the NCGA permanent markers to achieve this length; however, unless course conditions dictate, variation from the permanent markers should not exceed 10 yards.
Rick,
February 8th, 2010 at 9:39 amSee Rule 17-1 and 17-2. When a player strikes an unattended flagstick with a stroke from the green it is a loss of hole in match play or two stroke penalty in stroke play and the player would play the ball as it lies. If the player strikes a flagstick that has been attended without authority the person attending would be penalized and the player may cancel and replay the stroke.
I read in the recent Golf Digest a new decision(30-3f/13)states that a player is in breach of rule 14-2b if he allows his partner to stand on an extension of his line of putt during a stroke. Here’s my questions 1) can an oppenent stand on an extension of the line of putt(how rude) and if so i’m sure I can ask him to move? and 2) Can your partner stand on or near the line behind my putt? And as far as an oppenent is concerned, i’m sure it is the same for behind the person putting as it is on an extension of the line of putt. Thank you for your time.. Gregg
February 10th, 2010 at 8:57 amGregg,
February 10th, 2010 at 9:31 amYes, an opponent of fellow-competitor may stand on an extension of the player’s line of putt behind the ball without penalty. The player may ask the opponent or fellow-competitor to move and if they don’t they may subject to penalty under Rule 33-7. A partner may not stand on an extension of line of putt behind the ball while the stroke is being made (See Rule 14-2). However, the partner may stand on the opposite side of the hole to watch the putt because the line of putt ends at the hole.
Please double check the answer to Rick regarding a ball putted from on the green that subsequently hits the person tending the flagstick without authorization. The answer above said the player may cancel and replay. The penalty statement under 17-2 says “the stroke is canceled and the ball must be replaced and replayed.” Now that’s for stroke play. What about match play? If the unauthorized attender is the opponent, the hole is over as the loss of hole penalty applies. What about the situation when two singles matches are being played in the same group of four and the person who, in our case, tends the flagstick is not part of the match in question?
February 10th, 2010 at 10:50 amDecisions 20-3b/4 and 20-2c/1.5 are similar in that in both cases the player is putting his ball back into play at the previous spot, the spot is (roughly) identifiable by a divot, and, in both cases, the lie has been altered by the taking of a divot. In 20-2c/1.5 the ball is dropped; in 20-3b/4 the ball is placed. Is the place vs. drop because in one case the player himself has altered the lie and in the other another player altered the lie? If that is correct, does it make any difference if the “other player” is the partner? Or is there some totally different reason why in one case the ball is dropped and placed in the other?
February 10th, 2010 at 11:08 amEd,
February 10th, 2010 at 11:22 amYou are correct. I should have written “must” instead of “may”. The Rules of Golf do not contemplate two singles matches being played in the same group. However, by definition, the person that is not part of the match is an outside agency and Rule 19-1b applies, there is no penalty to either player and the stroke is canceled and replayed.
Drew,
Rule 20-3b deals with a lie being altered. In Decision 20-3b/4, the player knows the lie before being altered. Which in the example is a lie without a divot. The player is required to place a ball within a club-length of the original lie.
Rule 20-2c refers to the situations in which a player has to re-drop. In Decision 20-2c/1.5, the player does know the original spot and the original lie, however, it has not been altered and the player must re-drop because his ball has rolled forward of his estimated spot (Rule 20-2c (Vii)a) when returning to play a ball under stroke and distance (Rule 20-5).
To get back to your question….it does not make a difference whom alters the lie in 20-3b.
February 10th, 2010 at 11:50 amMy opponent requested the flag be left in while he chipped but wanted the flag tended and removed after he made his shot.Is a player chipping from off the green permitted to have the flag tended?
February 12th, 2010 at 2:38 pmDavid,
February 12th, 2010 at 2:55 pmRule 17-1 states that before making a stroke from anywhere on the course, the player may have the flagstick attended, removed or held up.
4 ball match, AB vs. CD. A holes putt and says that’s a 4. C & D, both lying 4, pick up their ball markers and head to the next tee. At that point A says “Oops. I had a five.” A is out of the hole for giving wrong info. How is B affected? If he had been lying 3 and had also picked up his ball, could he replace his ball with a one stroke penalty and putt for a five with C & D replacing their balls without penalty and also putting for a five?
February 14th, 2010 at 8:53 pmA tall protective screen runs approximately 40 yards tight to the left side of the teeing areas. Pulled shots often hit the screen and drop to the very base or even get stuck in the screen. If properly taken, the nearest point of relief for a right hander is on the other side of the screen (the left side) in a position that leaves a nearly impossible next shot as the angle back towards the fairway can be back through the screen. Is there a rule or suggested local rule that allows dropping on the right side of the screen leaving the player a reasonable next shot?
February 15th, 2010 at 12:03 amDavid,
February 15th, 2010 at 10:04 amYes. Since player A had given his opponents incorrect information (Rule 9-2) and did not correct it prior to his opponents lifting their golf balls, player A would be disqualified from the hole. Since Player B lifted his ball without marking it he would be penalized one stroke (Rule 18-2a) and be required to replace it. Their opponents, C and D, would replace their balls without penalty.
Bill,
February 15th, 2010 at 10:08 amNote 3 to Rule 24-2 states that the Committee may make a Local Rule stating that the player must determine the nearest point of relief without crossing over, through or under the obstruction.
A course that I frequently play has a green that is surrounded by white stakes on the back 180 degrees. The shape of the mowed area behind the green is basically a half circle but there are only about four stakes defining the out of bounds creating more of a polygon than an arc. I believe the intention is that the unmowed brush area is the out of bounds but if you sight stake to stake there may be 6′ – 10′ of mowed playable turf between the defined “line” and the unmowed boundry. What’s the rule?
February 15th, 2010 at 1:29 pmHi Ryan,
February 15th, 2010 at 4:52 pmI was feeling pretty good that you agreed with my answer to the situation regarding the 4 ball match from Feb. 14 above, as I usually get such questions wrong. But with more reading of Rule 30 (getting ready for a match play tourney), I wonder if perhaps we may be in error. Check out Decision 30-3f/3. It seems very similar in that an action against the rules by player A “adversely affected his opponents, i.e. caused them to pick up, A’s partner was also disqualified for the hole–Rule 30-3f. Thus, the opponents won the hole.” What do you think?
Bill,
February 15th, 2010 at 6:32 pmThe out of bounds is defined by the inside edge at ground level of the stakes. It is the Committee’s responsibility to accurately define the margins of the course. If it is their intent to make everything outside the mow line out of Bounds than a white line should be added or additional stakes. Otherwise, you must go stake to stake.
David,
February 16th, 2010 at 9:18 amI agree. It does seem that the situation in Decision 30-3f/3 would apply and the partner would also be disqualified from the hole. Good one.
I believe 14-2b was instituted in the late 1970s because tour players were allowing their caddies to stand behind them to block interference from the fan-crowds as they putted. I think the rule should include opponents and fellow competitors because if two very good friends are playing in the same group they could agree to stand behind each other to block the crowds thus defeating the cause for the rule.
February 16th, 2010 at 1:37 pmTerry,
The rule banning the practice of having a caddie stand on the extension of the line of putt behind the ball was first put in place in 1976 as Rule 35-1e. In 1984, a major reorganization of the rules caused it to be renumbered to 16-1f.
In 2000, the rule was extended to prohibit this throughout the entire course and it was moved from Rule 16 (Putting Green) to Rule 14-2 (Assistance).
As for extending the rule, any opponents or fellow competitors who agreed to do this for the purpose of assisting each other would be guilty of waving Rule 14-2 on accepting assistance and should be disqualified under rule 1-3.
February 16th, 2010 at 5:59 pmIn match play, Player A’s ball is a few inches from the hole. Opponent B asks A how many strokes he has taken. A replies 4 so B concedes the putt for a 5 and picks up his own ball as he was lying 6. Now A says “Nope, I got a 6.” Is B now the winner of the hole because A gave incorrect information? Would it change if B had been lying 7 or more? Do the rules always assume that A could have 5-putted from a few inches so A’s score could never be assumed?
February 19th, 2010 at 10:55 amIn a club tournament I was in the middle of my swing when my playing group broke out in loud laughter from a joke causing me to top my ball into a water hazard.The group apologised for the disruption and allowed me to take another penalty free shot wich I did.I wound up placing third in our tournament. Later our vice president heard about the incident and said I should not have been awarded another hit penalty free. this issue has caused some debate what is the proper ruling thank you jim
February 19th, 2010 at 12:29 pmDavid,
February 19th, 2010 at 3:42 pmDecision 9-2/5 states that once a player gives incorrect information he must correct it before his opponent picks up the ball. Otherwise, it becomes wrong information and the player would lose the hole. Decision 9-2/6 deals with wrong information given after the completion of the hole. If the player has not completed the hole than Rule 9-2 applies and the player loses the hole for giving wrong information.
Jim,
February 19th, 2010 at 4:12 pmThe Rules of Golf do not let a player “re-do” a stroke, without penalty, because he was distracted. Essentially, you have proceeded correctly under your options (Rule 26-1a). However, if you signed and returned your scorecard without including your original stroke and the penalty stroke for that hole you should be disqualified (Rule 6-6d). If the competition had closed and you were not aware that you had incurred a penalty, Rule 34-1b (iii) would apply and the results would stand.
Back to Dec. 9-2/6 as you mentioned two items above: A holes out and tells his opponent B that he has scored 4. B lying 5 picks up (the best he can do is 6). A then says, “Wait, that’s a 5.” Is it correct to say that A still wins the hole as the wrong information did not affect B’s understanding of the result of the hole (Rule 9-2.b.iii)?
February 21st, 2010 at 5:03 pmTo add to Ryan’s comment to Jim and his noisy companions, see Decision 1-4/1.
February 21st, 2010 at 5:09 pmDavid,
February 22nd, 2010 at 9:40 amRule 9-2 specifically states that the player has to give incorrect information regarding the number of strokes taken to complete a hole AND this affects the opponent’s understanding of the result of the hole. In your example, the wrong information does not change the status of the hole. So there is no wrong information.
Please take a look again at Dec. 30-3f/3. What would be the ruling if the opponents C & D saw player A pick up his ball before it was holed. Now he is not giving wrong information because under Rule 9-2.b.i his actions were “observed by his opponents,” and it the responsibility of the players to know the rules. Again the spectator points out that the ball was not holed. Do all players replace their ball under a one stroke penalty or does the “adversely affected” still give the hole to C & D?
February 22nd, 2010 at 5:46 pmDavid,
February 23rd, 2010 at 9:03 amIn your example, the opponent’s witnessed the violation and chose to ignore it. That is their right in match play see Decision 2-5/1. Only, if there is a referee assigned to the match, must action be taken for the violation.
John,
February 23rd, 2010 at 1:46 pmI don’t think they would be guilty of a breach of 14-2 or 14-2a because if this is a general rule then what is the need for 14-2b?
Terry,
February 23rd, 2010 at 3:25 pmI typically do not use the sub-letters when replying to these questions, especially when discussing the penalty statement which applies to the entire sub-section of the Rule. To be more specific, Rule 14-2b would apply. It could be argued that Rule 14-2b only applies to the player’s caddie, his partner or his partner’s caddie. But, while Rule 16-1a says that a player may touch his own line of putt except in specific cases, Decision 1-3/3 makes it clear that an agreement between players to repair spike marks on an each other’s lines of putt would be an agreement to waive that rule and the players would be disqualified under Rule 1-3. In my opinion, the similar principle of agreeing to provide assistance in this manner would apply here.
A course I play frequently has a lot of canyon running parallel to the fairway. There are also bunkers right next to the canyons. If I slice a ball over the bunker and into a canyon what are my options? I cannot play from the other side of the hazard. I can’t drop keeping the pin in line from where the ball crossed the hazard. I can hit from the tee box. Can I drop two club lengths from where it crossed the hazard and drop it in the bunker? Thanks Dave
February 27th, 2010 at 12:00 amDavid,
February 27th, 2010 at 9:15 amIt really depends on how the course is marked. If the canyon is marked as a lateral hazard (red stakes and/or lines), then you may use the option under Rule 26 and drop within two club-lengths from where the ball last crossed the margin of the hazard and the ball may be dropped in a bunker.
A player takes a swing at his ball in the fairway, hits it fat, and the divot, still attached, folds over the ball. Is the player allowed to fold the divot back to replace it prior to his next swing?
February 27th, 2010 at 10:05 pmRandy,
February 28th, 2010 at 8:29 amThe player would not be permitted to put the divot back per Rule 13-2 that states that a player may not improve the lie of the ball by moving bending or breaking anything growing or fixed.
Hi,
Playing in a stroke play tourney recently, fellow competitor’s ball was found in the bottom of an old stump, about the wide and depth of a 5 gallon bucket. In my estimation he could not have moved the ball with a stick of dynamite. Players stance, if he attempted to extricate the ball, would be on a cart path. he claimed he was entitled to relief. I cried foul. What’s the ruling?
March 1st, 2010 at 4:49 pmMr. Norosky,
March 1st, 2010 at 5:18 pmThe exeption to Rule 24-2 states that a player may not take relief if it is clearly unreasonable for him to make a stroke because of interference by anything other than an immovable obstruction. In your example, it is clearly unreasonable for the player to make a stroke at the ball. He would be denied relief from the cart path.
I’m a scorer for a fellow competitor in a stroke play event. Through the first four holes he has failed to give me an accurate accounting of his score, consistently chiseling one stroke off. This forces me to go over each stroke, until he begrudgingly concedes to my correct accounting. This is aggravating me to now end and my game is suffering. He even asked me if I was going to question him after every hole! ( Well yeah you haven’t got one right yet!) Do I have a case for him being DQ’ed for an obvious attempt to cheat and IMHO a severe breach of etiquette?
March 1st, 2010 at 5:45 pmWhile watching the Phoenix Open on saturday I noticed Scott Piercy in a fairway bunker. Waiting for the green to clear he tapped the “rake” a couple of times w/ his club.It looked as if this was a “waste” bunker, but I have yet to see a “rake” in one. What is the ruling?
March 2nd, 2010 at 10:41 amI work at a golf course. For prizes we give out what we call Hidden Valley Bucks. They can be used to pay for food at the restaurant or anything purchased at the pro shop. Is this a violation of amature status? Can they be used to pay for alcohol? Thank you.
March 2nd, 2010 at 10:47 amWalter,
March 2nd, 2010 at 2:00 pmAs a marker you are responsible for recording your fellow-competitors score accurately and signing the scorecard attesting to that fact. See Rule 6-6. It is the player’s responsibility to also sign the card and turn it into the Committee. If it is discovered that a player has signed for a score lower than actually taken then they shall be disqualified from the championship.
Richard,
March 2nd, 2010 at 2:05 pmIt is normally not the general practice to put a rake in a “waste area”. These areas are considered through the green, by definition. Whether Scott’s ball was in a bunker or a “waste area”, he was entitled to touch the rake with his club. See the exception to Rule 13-4.
Craig,
March 2nd, 2010 at 2:10 pmIt is not a violation of amateur status to give out certificates that allow a player to purchase items from the course. They may not exchange the certificate (Hidden Valley Bucks) into cash. See the Rules of Amateur Status in the back of the Rules of Golf Book.
Rule 20-3 says that if a ball is lifted or moved, the person who lifted or moved it may replace it. So if a caddie (or spectator or marshall) should be the one to remove a hose or cable or some moveable obstruction, could the caddie, marshall or spectator be the one to replace the ball? I’m sure at most any level of play the player himself would do the replacing, but if one of the others did so would it be ok?
March 2nd, 2010 at 10:46 pmDavid,
March 3rd, 2010 at 4:09 pmWhen a ball at rest has been moved by an outside agency or the players side (Rule 18) it must be replaced. You are correct, Rule 20-3 states that when the ball has been moved it may be replaced by the player, partner or person that moved it. Ultimately, it is the player’s responsibility to make sure that the ball gets back to the original location.
on are course we have local rule which is on the scorecard also that reads :BALLS HITTING POWER LINES MUST BE REPLAYED WITH NO PENALTY-BALLS HITTING POWER POLES ARE PLAYED WHERE THEY LIE; my question is on the second shot of a par four the ball is hit and strikes a tree limb and proceeds forward striking the power line that knocks the ball straight down the power line runs across the fairway.Do you play the ball where it lies or replay the ball.
March 5th, 2010 at 8:35 pmBenny,
March 6th, 2010 at 4:07 pmThe stroke must be replayed. It doesn’t matter that it struck a branch prior to striking the overhead powerline.
In a tourney played this weekend a ball ended up on a cart path.
March 8th, 2010 at 8:51 amThe player took the proper drop and the ball ended up close to a rope that had been stretched between trees to keep carts out of a wet area. We assumed the rope was a moveable obstruction, but instead of untying it, one member of the group simply held the rope back out of the way while the player hit his shot. Any rules problem with such an assist?
If a ball has a clump of mud on the hitting area, can it be turned around so as to have a clean hitting area?
March 8th, 2010 at 9:00 amDavid,
March 8th, 2010 at 11:39 amThe player was entitled to relief from the rope under Rule 24-1a and could have moved or removed it prior to playing his stroke. The rules do not state how the rope must be moved or removed. The player would not be penalized for this action.
Mike,
March 8th, 2010 at 11:44 amIf a ball is lifted under a Rule that does not permit it to be cleaned the ball may be replaced with the mud facing any direction other than directly under the ball. See Decision 21/5.
In a tournament, can a twosome move up and join another twosome after
March 8th, 2010 at 1:29 pmthe round has started? (They have not skipped any holes) Also can a
player start out with one group and change to another group durring the round?
Lucille,
March 8th, 2010 at 2:08 pmRule 6-3b states that in stroke play, the competitor must remain throughout the round in the group arranged by the Committee, unless the Committee authorizes or ratifies a change. If players were to change groups without authorization from the Committee, they would be disqualified.
Why is there a penalty for accidentally hitting your ball during a pratice putting stroke but not when taking a practice swing on the teeing ground? Refer to Stump the Rules Wizards in the Winter 2010 NCGA Golf magazine. If in both cases the player was not addressing the ball but just taking a practice swing/putt I’m not sure why there are two different rules.
March 8th, 2010 at 7:13 pmCan there be a serious breach under Rule 18? A player’s ball is at rest on the green and unfortunately the wind and gravity take it into a bunker. The player, thinking he is doing the right thing, replaces the ball back on the green. Is the penalty simply the two strokes under Rule 18 or does this situation fall into a must fix scenario?
March 8th, 2010 at 7:56 pmWith all the bad weather recently, out tournament was played using Lift, Clean & Place in the fairways. The question is, would you be entitled to do so on the fringe around the greens? Thanks.
March 8th, 2010 at 11:10 pmRick,
March 9th, 2010 at 9:02 amThe difference is in the definition of ball in play. When the ball is on the tee it is not in play. The first sentence in Rule 18-2a states “When a player’s ball is in play”….
David,
March 9th, 2010 at 9:07 amIt is possible to have a serious breach under Rule 18. Based on your example, it could possibly be a serious breach.
Ultimately, it is up to the Committee to decide whether or not a serious breach has occurred. See Rule 20-7c.
Jeff,
March 9th, 2010 at 9:11 amYes, a player would be entitled to proceed under lift, clean and place in all closely mown areas. Including the areas of fringe around the greens. See Appendix I “Preferred Lies” and “Winter Rules”.
Today I saw a player hit his ball into a bunker such that it was partially buried on an uphill slope. In order to take his stance he had to be above the ball, and when he started to take his stance a mini avalanche buried his ball under 2-3 inches of sand. (The ball may have even moved though it was impossible to tell.) Now, does the player get to do what is allowed under Rule 12: “If an excess is removed, there is no penalty and the ball must be recovered so that only a part of the ball is visible.” Or, as the player is the one who worsened his lie, is he stuck with unplayable being the only option?
March 9th, 2010 at 4:07 pmEd,
March 9th, 2010 at 4:27 pmThe Rules of Golf allow a player to worsen his lie without penalty. However, he may not improve it. If he improves his lie, he is in violation of Rule 13-2 (two stroke penalty in Stroke Play or loss of hole in Match Play). If his ball is moved in the process of taking his stance in this manner it is a one stroke penalty (Rule 18-2a) and he is required to replace it and recreate the original lie. See Rule 20-3b.
Let’s assume Rule 18 doesn’t apply since it was impossible to tell if the ball moved, and so to be clear about the ball buried in the bunker by avalanche, if the player moved enough sand so he could see the ball to play it, he would incur a 2 stroke penalty under Rule 13, and if he wanted to avoid the 2 SP, the best he could do would be to declare the ball unplayable (as it clearly was) and proceed under Rule 28. Is that correct?
March 10th, 2010 at 9:22 amEd,
March 10th, 2010 at 9:25 amThat is correct.
I downloaded the USGA Rules of Golf app onto my iPhone. Can I use this in tournaments instead of the printed book?
March 10th, 2010 at 10:02 amHayata,
March 10th, 2010 at 10:15 amYes, you may. See decision 14-3/16 for additional guidlines.
At a recent tourney the range was closed due to frost. I noticed a few players taking balls out of their bags and hitting them. I thought this was an unfair advantage. Was this a violation of the rules of golf?
March 14th, 2010 at 6:18 pmRick,
March 14th, 2010 at 7:27 pmThere is no violation of the Rules of Golf for players practicing with their own golf balls in this manner.
Playing the 18th at pebble I pulled my second shot over the bunker into the ocean. The red line of the hazard margin is in the bunker. Is the correct spot to drop in the bunker?
March 19th, 2010 at 7:59 pmGlenn,
March 20th, 2010 at 8:23 amPebble? Good for you! Yes, one of your options for the lateral water hazard is to drop within two club-lengths from where your ball last crossed the margin. There is no restriction from dropping in the bunker.
Chapman or Pinehurst two man Tournament.
Player A and Player B both tee off.
They switch balls on the second shot Player A hits Player B’s ball and Player B hits Player A’s ball.
The question is, if play A hits his drive out of bounds does he tee up and hit again and hit another drive or does player B tee up and hit Player A’s second drive?
March 23rd, 2010 at 6:06 pmin the jr tournament a player hit his ball over the par 3 into the water and could not retrieve it, what is his next move
March 24th, 2010 at 2:19 amTim,
March 24th, 2010 at 10:02 amIt depends on how the hazard is marked (Yellow is a water hazard or Red is a lateral water hazard). The player may proceed as prescribed in Rule 26:
a. Play a ball as nearly as possible at the spot from which the original ball was last played (see Rule 20-5); or
b. Drop a ball behind the water hazard, keeping the point at which the original ball last crossed the margin of the water hazard directly between the hole and the spot on which the ball is dropped, with no limit to how far behind the water hazard the ball may be dropped; or
c. As additional options available only if the ball last crossed the margin of a lateral water hazard, drop a ball outside the water hazard within two club-lengths of and not nearer the hole than (i) the point where the original ball last crossed the margin of the water hazard or (ii) a point on the opposite margin of the water hazard equidistant from the hole.
Joe:
March 24th, 2010 at 10:34 amB would play the ball from the tee if A’s ball is out of bounds. If they are not sure if the ball was out of bounds, B would play the provisional. If they happen to be playing from two seperate sets of tees, B would play the provisional ball from A’s set of tees. Penalties do not effect the order of play. Rule 29.
Where is the preferred location for rakes to be used in a sand bunker?
March 24th, 2010 at 4:06 pmPlease advise.
Thank you.
Mike Fleck
Michael,
The following is from the USGA Rules of Golf Decision Misc./2:
There is not a perfect answer for the position of rakes, but on balance it is felt there is less likelihood of an advantage or disadvantage to the player if rakes are placed outside of bunkers.
It may be argued that there is more likelihood of a ball being deflected into or kept out of a bunker if the rake is placed outside the bunker. It could also be argued that if the rake is in the bunker it is most unlikely that the ball will be deflected out of the bunker.
However, in practice, players who leave rakes in bunkers frequently leave them at the side which tends to stop a ball rolling into the flat part of the bunker, resulting in a much more difficult shot than would otherwise have been the case. This is most prevalent at a course where the bunkers are small. When the ball comes to rest on or against a rake in the bunker and the player must proceed under Rule 24-1, it may not be possible to replace the ball on the same spot or find a spot in the bunker which is not nearer the hole — see Decision 20-3d/2.
If rakes are left in the middle of the bunker, the only way to position them is to throw them into the bunker and this causes damage to the surface. Also, if a rake is in the middle of a large bunker, it is either not used or the player is obliged to rake a large area of the bunker, resulting in unnecessary delay.
Therefore, after considering all these aspects, it is recommended that rakes should be left outside bunkers in areas where they are least likely to affect the movement of the ball.
Ultimately, it is a matter for the Committee to decide where it wishes rakes to be placed.
March 24th, 2010 at 4:15 pmWe are waiting to tee off on the second tee. Fellow competitor hits some balls from our tee box to the red tee box approximately 80 yards away. I know you can chip and putt on the previous green and around the next tee, providing you aren’t slowing anyone down, but is hitting a 80 yd shot acceptable?
March 25th, 2010 at 11:57 amWalter,
March 25th, 2010 at 12:27 pmRule 7-2 permits a player to practice putting or chipping on or near the next teeing ground of the next hole to be played. An 80 yard shot, unless accidental, would not constitute chipping and would result in a two stroke penalty.
In the AT&T tournament, AT&T placed a digital board above the green on hole 14 at Pebble. I noticed from the board that the pro is 93 yards away from the pin since there are laser operators relaying this to the tournament. This can clearly be observed by both the pro and the caddy. My question is this not getting “advice” from outside the player or the caddy? Why is it allowed in an official tournament?
March 25th, 2010 at 6:00 pmPeter,
March 26th, 2010 at 8:57 amThere is only a violation of advice under Rule 8 if a player, partner or caddie asks for advice. Otherwise, distance information is not considered advice and may be shared. See decision 8-1/2.
On the green my ball comes to rest blocking another players line. He asks me to mark my ball to the left. I don’t mark the ball first I use the putter head as a reference. instead of moving the ball then marking it I placed the mark on the other side of the putter head with the ball still on the green. One of the other members of the group claimed I broke a rule he said I need to mark the ball then measure then place the ball then mark it, I believed that as long as I repeat the same process to move the ball it was ok.
Can you explain the rule regarding moving your ball out of some ones putting line.
March 29th, 2010 at 10:14 amThanks Glenn
Glenn,
March 30th, 2010 at 8:24 amRule 20-1 states that if the ball marker interferes with the play, stance, or stroke of another player, it SHOULD be placed one or more clubhead-lengths to one side. This is only a recommendation. Most importantly, the player must insure that he is getting the ball back in play at the proper location. It is best to use the same procedure when moving the ball or ball marker.
I putt to the high side of the hole and leave it about 1/4 of an inch away. My partner says “That’s good” as I walk towards the ball, but for some reason (wind?, my foot fall?) the ball drops in. How many putts have I taken? My partner said two as he had conceded the putt: I said one, as my putt dropped.
April 1st, 2010 at 7:17 amJohn,
April 1st, 2010 at 8:40 amI assume when you say partner you mean opponent, in match play. Rule 2-4 states that an opponent may concede a stroke at anytime as long as the ball is at rest. However, Rule 16-2 (ball overhanging the hole) states that the ball is not at rest until the player has had enough time to reach the hole and an additional 10 seconds to determine whether or not the ball will fall in the hole. According to your description, I would say the ball was not overhanging the lip of the hole (1/4 inch away) so Rule 16-2 did not apply and the ball was at rest and the concession was valid. If the ball was overhanging the hole I would say that Decision 16-2/2 applies.
Is there an approved tie breaking rule for net competitions? My NCGA club, The GOATS, have been using the net scores for the back 9, back 6, back 3 or the 18th hole. Is this correct?
Thanks.
April 4th, 2010 at 2:38 pmColby,
April 5th, 2010 at 7:48 amAppendix I in the USGA Rules of Golf outlines several options for breaking ties and one is to take the last 9 holes, last 6, last 3 and last one. When using handicaps, a percentage of the handicaps should be used.
A player is in a green side bunker. He hits his next shot from the bunker over the green into a water hazard. What are his options on his next shot.
April 6th, 2010 at 5:00 pmSuppose player A has handicap of +3, B has hdcp of 22 .Is it a fair match 1)if A adjusts to 0 and B to 25 thus B gets 2 strokes on 7 holes plus single stroke on other 11 or 2) B has to adjust index to 18.4 which is handicap of 19 then A becomes 0 B gets 1 stroke a hole except 2 on hardest hole or 3) something else ? This pertains to matches amongst regulars and leave aside all first tee wrangling. I would just like to know what is fairest method. Your thoughts please
April 7th, 2010 at 11:54 amThanks
Joe,
April 7th, 2010 at 11:58 am#1 Play a ball as nearly as possible to the spot from which the original ball was last played. Which means the player would have to drop a ball in the bunker. #2 Drop a ball behind the water hazard, keeping the point at which the ball last crossed the margin of the water hazard directly between the hole and the spot on which the ball is dropped, with no limit to how far behind the water hazard the ball may be dropped; or #3 As additional options available only if the ball last crossed the margin of a lateral water hazard (red stake or line), drop a ball outside the water hazard within two club-lengths of and not nearer the hole than the point where the original ball last crossed the margin of the water hazard; or #4 a point on the opposite margin of the water hazard equidistant from the hole. In all four options you will be dropping the ball and receiving a one-stroke penalty.
Lowell,
April 7th, 2010 at 12:04 pmThe +3 would play to 0 and the 22 would would receive 25 strokes. B gets 2 strokes on the 7 hardest holes plus a single stroke on other 11. If their is a maximum index requirement, the higher handicap player will still get the difference. The +3 will play to 0 and the 19 will be adjusted to a 22. 2 strokes on the handicapped holes 1-4.
The following incident occurred in a friendly game so it was resolved without knowing the rules. How would it be resolved in a tournament situation? Player A and B both mark their balls on the green, then wait for the following group to play up. When A and B return to putt their balls they realize they have both used dimes as a ball maker and they are not sure whose dimes is whose, whose ball is whose. Now what?
April 9th, 2010 at 6:42 amEd,
April 9th, 2010 at 8:25 amGood question! There is no decision or rule that contemplates this situation. I actually called the USGA for there interpretation. In equity, the players will use the ball marker that is furthest from the hole as their reference and both be putting from there, without penalty.
Thanks. I was expecting the answer to be like Decision 27/10 which sure would have been painful.
April 9th, 2010 at 4:23 pmA situation came up in a two man team match play. I hit the opposing players ball and he did the same without noticing. My partner didn’t finish the hole (2 O.B). The other guys partner was on in 4 but didn’t finish hole because I made a 5 with a stroke and won the hole without noticing the different balls. All four tee off on the next hole and precede to hit our 2nd shots. That’s when we finally made the discovery that the wrong balls were hit on the last hole. He claims they won the hole because his partner could have 10 putt and win the hole since I was DQ’d from the hole and my partner was in his pocket with an X. I say we win the hole because we were declared the winners of that hole and no penalty was called before we all tee’d off on the next hole. We still won the match but we played an extra hole for nothing. Who is correct here?
April 11th, 2010 at 5:27 pmShaun,
April 12th, 2010 at 8:01 amWhen you hit the wrong ball you were disqualified from the hole. Your opponent also was disqualified from the hole when he hit the wrong ball. Since you gave wrong information to your opponent which caused him to lift the ball, their side won the hole. See Decision 30-3c/3. Once the discovery was made, it is new information and the oppenents have a right to make a claim at that time. Regardless if it is on the next hole. Rule 9-2.
I am taking relief from a cart path. My nearest point of relief will leave me under a staked tree ( within two club lengths of my relief point the tree is still in my swing) since I am entitled to relief from both situations can I skip dropping from the cart path and just take relief from the staked tree? ( trying to expedite the process)
thanks
April 19th, 2010 at 4:50 pmWalter,
April 20th, 2010 at 9:08 amIf your nearest point of relief from the cart path puts you in a situation in which you would be interfered with by the staked tree and the nearest point of relief from the staked tree would put you back on the cart path, you may find your nearest point of relief that satisfies relief from both the cart path and the staked tree. See Decision 1-4/8. If this is not the case, you must deal with each situation separately.
Is it okay for a player in taking relief from a water hazard to drop on a cart path that is properly in line with the margin crossing point and the flagstick? And then, after seeing what happens with the cart path drop, take relief, if he should wish, from the cart path?
April 21st, 2010 at 8:00 amDavid,
April 21st, 2010 at 8:19 amYes, a player may drop onto a cart path when taking releif from a water hazard. Once dropped, if there is interference, the player may take releif as prescribed in Rule 24-2.
We were playing at Cinnabar Hills, not a competition match, just a regular round of golf. My husband’s ball came to rest in long rough practically on top of another ball (that obviously had not been found by a previous group, given the thickness of the rough it was in). He moved his ball to a similar lie and took the shot. should he have been given relief? Did he have to play it as it lay, on top of the other ball?
April 22nd, 2010 at 7:30 pmKathy,
April 23rd, 2010 at 7:58 amThe abandoned ball is a movable obstruction, Rule 24-1 applies. See Decision 24-1/2. If the ball lies on the obstruction, the ball may be lifted and the obstruction removed and the ball must be dropped as near as possible to the spot directly under the place where the ball lay on the obstruction.
In a stroke play event, my friend drove his ball into thick bush on the right on a dog-leg right par 4. He played a provisional ball cautiously onto the fairway about 30 yards shorter than his original ball would be. He went ahead to search for his original ball and quickly found a ball inside the thick bush which he declared as his original ball and declared the ball unplayable. He dropped a ball within 2 club lengths of the found ball and hit it to within 10 yards off the green. On his way back to pick up his provisional ball, about 10 yards behind where he played the dropped ball, he found a ball in the rough which he identified as his correct original ball. We all were sure that was within 5 minutes of him starting the search for his original ball. There was no referee for this small event and he was allowed to continue with his correct original ball. Would this be right ? Would appreciate some explanations..thank you.
April 24th, 2010 at 9:19 pmGreat article, I enjoy the logic and reasoning for the responses. I think that in the case of the “lost” ball being found that the player should have incurred a penalty for playing the wrong ball, but allowed to play the original (aka “lost” ball that was found) as he did not declared that ball as lost and proceed with the provisional as the ball in play.
April 28th, 2010 at 11:22 amDesmond,
April 28th, 2010 at 11:45 amI hope you were playing Match Play! Based on what you described, the player had played a wrong ball when he continued with the original and, in stroke play, when he played a stroke on the next hole he was disqualified.
The closest applicable decision that I can find for this situation is Decision 15/14. The procedures in Rules 28b and 28c may not be applied except with reference to the position of the player’s ball in play, and this must first be found and identified (see Decision 28/1). Before proceeding under option b or c of Rule 28, the player should ensure he is doing so with reference to his ball in play. The player was permitted to identify the ball following the procedure in Rule 12-2 or, having lifted it under Rule 28, could have inspected the ball to verify that it was his ball in play. In this case, the ball dropped and played by the player was not his original ball; it was a substituted ball. Since the location of the original ball was not known at the time the substituted ball was dropped, he was required to proceed under Rule 27-1. As the substituted ball was not dropped at the spot required by Rule 27-1, he played from a wrong place (see Decision 28/15) and the original ball was lost.
In match play, he incurred a penalty of loss of hole (Rule 20-7b).
In stroke play, he incurred a penalty of one stroke under Rule 27-1 and an additional penalty of two strokes under Rule 20-7c for playing from a wrong place with the abandoned ball. Since the breach was a serious one, he is subject to disqualification unless he corrected his error. When he played a stoke at his original ball it was a wrong ball and he must correct the error. The player would have to go back to where he had picked up his provisional ball and place a ball at that spot and would be playing his 9th stroke (original tee shot; one penalty stroke under Rule 27-1 for the original ball; the tee shot with the provisional ball; two stroke penalty for the wrong place and improper substitution with the stray ball Rule 15-2 & 20-7; two stroke penalty for playing a stroke at the original ball which was a wrong ball Rule 15-3 and a one stroke penalty for picking up his provisional ball 18-2a).
A player hits a tee shot unto a very soft green and the ball embeds in its own pitch mark such that even after careful repair, the spot is dented such that the ball will probably bounce or hop when it is putted. Does such a situation qualify as an altered lie thus giving the player relief under 20-3b?
April 30th, 2010 at 9:56 amDavid,
April 30th, 2010 at 10:30 am20-3b would not apply. The player would have to fix the embed mark the best he could.
Dear Ryan,
April 30th, 2010 at 6:57 pmI thank you for and refer to your answer to my question above, the first part of your answer where you said,
” Since the location of the original ball was not known at the time the substituted ball was dropped, he was required to proceed under Rule 27-1. As the substituted ball was not dropped at the spot required by Rule 27-1, he played from a wrong place (see Decision 28/15) and the original ball was lost.
In match play, he incurred a penalty of loss of hole (Rule 20-7b).
In stroke play, he incurred a penalty of one stroke under Rule 27-1 and an additional penalty of two strokes under Rule 20-7c for playing from a wrong place with the abandoned ball. Since the breach was a serious one, he is subject to disqualification unless he corrected his error. ”
was well understood and was in fact our first response to the player when he found his correct original ball. We told him his original is deemed lost by his substituting a ball and he has to abandon the original ball. By Rule 27-1, he will have to go back to the tee to play another ball in order to correct his serious breach. It was not until another player in the group told us that the substituted ball was illegally substituted for the provisional ball and not for the original ball. He said once the player has played a provisional ball from the tee, he cannot substitute a ball for his original ball, he has to find his original ball and if not found the provisional ball would be in play. Since the substituted ball was for the provisional ball, the provisional ball is out of play and the substituted ball becomes the provisional ball. As we were all confused by all these argument, the player said since his original ball was found within the 5 minutes allowed, everything that has to do with the provisional ball and the provisional ball itself should be abandoned and his original ball still in play.
Anyway, the player did not win any prize so no harm done.
For conclusion, before the player played the original ball, if a referee was there, he would have asked the player to go back to the tee and play his 5th stroke, 1 tee shot for the original ball, one for Rule 27-1 penalty, and 2 strokes for playing from a wrong place. If he had played the original ball, he would have played a wrong ball and he would still be required to go back to the tee as above but add 2 strokes penalty for playing a wrong ball.
I could not understand the second part of your answer where you said:
” When he played a stoke at his original ball it was a wrong ball and he must correct the error. The player would have to go back to where he had picked up his provisional ball and place a ball at that spot and would be playing his 9th stroke (original tee shot; one penalty stroke under Rule 27-1 for the original ball; the tee shot with the provisional ball; two stroke penalty for the wrong place and improper substitution with the stray ball Rule 15-2 & 20-7; two stroke penalty for playing a stroke at the original ball which was a wrong ball Rule 15-3 and a one stroke penalty for picking up his provisional ball 18-2a).”
But I will try to read deeper into it and see if I could understand more.
A competitor in a mens club tournament mistakenly posted his teams
May 6th, 2010 at 6:37 pmscore on the scorecard reversing the nines. But writing the word front on the back nine of the card and writing the word back on the front nine of the card. Is this within the rules.
Desmond,
May 7th, 2010 at 7:54 amWhen the player dropped the abandoned ball from the bush he was substituting a ball and the original was lost as soon as he made a stroke at the dropped ball. See definition of lost ball. Since he gained a significant advantage in distance by playing the substituted ball from a wrong place he was required to correct it prior to starting the play of the next hole. To fix the error he would have to go back to where he had picked up the provisional and proceed from there. Unfortunately, in the case you described, the player did not correct the error and should be disqualified.
Lucille,
May 7th, 2010 at 8:06 amAs long as the Committee understands the player’s intention and the status of the holes played, there would be no penalty and the scores would stand. See Decision 6-6a/3.
A player hits a shot into a area of trees between two fairways. He searches for five minutes then heads back to hit a second ball from the previous spot. As he is heading back another player drives up in a cart and states that he had picked up the first player’s ball a few minutes previously and just realized that it might be a ball in play. The question: Is the player out of luck and rules are rules, or since the original ball was moved (temporarily stolen) by an outside agency before five minutes expired, is there any way the player can proceed under 18-1 instead of 27-1?
May 11th, 2010 at 2:44 pmDavid,
May 11th, 2010 at 3:12 pmUnfortunately, the ball was lost after the five minutes permitted to search had expired. See definition of lost ball and Decision 27/6.
Is there a penalty for laying a rake in the sand and laying the putter handle across the rake to keep it clean. The rake was about 15 feet away from where the ball was.
May 12th, 2010 at 1:47 pmMaurice,
May 12th, 2010 at 3:08 pmException 1 to Rule 13-4 states that a player may place his clubs in the hazard (including bunkers) without penalty. Even if it is on the rake.
HI, THIS HAPPENED TO ME. WHILE IN THE PROCESS AND PRIOR TO MARKING MY BALL ON THE GREEN, MY SKY CADDIE FELL OUT OF MY SHIRT POCKET AND MOVED THE BALL. THE BALL WAS REPLACED TO THE EXACT SPOT AND MARKED. AM I PENALIZED? IF SO HOW MANY STROKES. THANK YOU FOR YOUR RESPONSE.
May 15th, 2010 at 6:39 amDear Ryan,
In a club annual championship, Note 2 to Rule 7-2 was adopted. A player after completing the first 9 holes found that he has to wait 30 minutes before he could continue play on the 10th tee. He went to the nearby driving range to hit a few balls and then to the practice green to practice putting. Did he infringe any rule?
May 15th, 2010 at 6:43 pmRay,
May 17th, 2010 at 8:03 amYou are penalized one-stroke for causing your ball to move under Rule 18-2a.
Desmond,
May 17th, 2010 at 8:09 amThe player was penalized two-strokes in stroke play or loss of hole in match play under Rule 7-2. A player is not entitled to play a practice stroke during the round. The penalty would be applied to the 10th hole.
A player hits a 200+ tee shot just off the fairway. Before his group leaves the tee to go play second shots a player from another hole picks up the player’s ball checking to see if it is his. The second player, seeing it is not his ball, tosses the ball back in the same sort of lie it was in previously and more or less in the same area. Now, the question: what should the player do about Rule 18-1? The ball has been moved by an outside agency, but because the moving took place at a distance of 200+ yards it is impossible to tell if the ball has been returned to the proper spot. Should the player make a guess as to the right spot and drop the ball or just play the ball from where it is now located?
May 18th, 2010 at 2:53 pmDavid,
May 18th, 2010 at 3:08 pmIf the player knows the lie and location he would replace the ball. See Rule 20-3a. If he is not sure of the lie and location than he would drop the ball as near as possible to the estimated spot. See Rule 20-3c. It may be necessary to get the outside agency involved as to where the ball was when it was picked up. If the player does not have enough evidence to support the fact that the ball had been moved from its original lie and location the ball should be played as it lies.
A player hits a ball next to another players ball in the fairway. The other player asks for the ball to be marked as not to hit it while striking his ball. When the ball is placed back the player that hit noticed that a long line on the ball is positioned more toward the intended line of flight that when the ball was marked. Is there any violation? Does the ball have to be placed EXACTLY back as it rested before marking? Is it possible to align the the mark to coincide with the intended ball flight without penalty?
May 19th, 2010 at 5:39 pmChris,
May 20th, 2010 at 8:26 amThe ball may be put back in any orientation that the player wishes. See decision 20-3a/2 and 20/5.
I’ve been led to believe that using the flagstick to steady or support oneself while making a stroke is a rule violation. If so, what rule is breached? Is it an example of 13-3 building a stance for a two stroke penalty or is it 14-2 accept physical assistance for a two stroke penalty or is it 14-3 unusual use of equipment, a dq penalty? Or is it some other rule? And what is the penalty?
May 20th, 2010 at 4:42 pmRyan,
May 20th, 2010 at 4:49 pmOne addition to Chris’s question and your answer about orienting the ball: see Decision 21/5 regarding replacing a ball with mud on it. The ball can not be teed on the clump of mud.
David,
May 20th, 2010 at 4:50 pmDecision 17-1/5 states that a player may hold the flagstick in one hand and may put with the other. Decision 14-3/9 states that a player may not use a club to steady himself to make a stroke. If a player uses a flagstick to steady himself while making a stroke it would be disqualification under 14-3.
Please help with a version of Decision 13-2/28. If the balls of Player A and B are lying very near each other and Player A walks through the bunker for no acceptable reason (as clarified in Dec. 13-2/29 and/29.3). According to Dec. 13-2/28 A can not smooth the bunker where he had walked, but what about Player B? Isn’t he entitled to the line of play he had when his ball came to rest? If so, he should be able to smooth the bunker. And if he did so and played before A, would A have to recreate the messed up bunker or would he be able to take advantage of B’s raking rights? Or would A be required to play before B raked the bunker? And, if that should be the case, what happens in match play when certain order of play is mandatory?
May 22nd, 2010 at 4:10 pmI hit a ball into the bunker and the ball is resting next to a rock as big as the ball. May I remove the rock before I hit the ball?
May 24th, 2010 at 1:22 pmJoe,
May 24th, 2010 at 4:07 pmRocks are loose impediments and may not be removed when your ball lies in the same bunker. See Rule 13-4. However, the Committee may choose to adopt the local rule in Appendix I to grant relief from stones in the bunker. Without the Local Rule in effect, you must either play the ball as it lies or declare it unplayable.
Ed,
May 25th, 2010 at 3:37 pmSorry for the delayed response. Good question.
Player B would be permitted to smooth the bunker, because he would be entitled to the lie his ball had when it came to rest (See Decision 13-4/18). Whether or not it was B’s turn to play he was entitled to rake the bunker either before or after Player A played and if the raking improved A’s situation there is no penalty. I cannot find a decision to support my answer, but I feel that the player’s right to restore his lie would take precedence. There is no direction on the order in which a player would restore his lie. Another theory is that if Player B plays first, then Player A would have to recreate his lie (recreating the footprints) prior to playing from the bunker. If Player A asked Player B to restore his line prior to playing for the sole purpose of improving his situation, and Player B obliges, both players would be penalized two strokes (Decision 13-2/36) and if the Committee feels that the violation is a serious breach of Rule 1-2, the players could be disqualified (see Decision 1-2/2). I am not real confident in my answer and have discussed the issue with the staff at the USGA. They do not have a definitive answer at this time, but will respond when they do. I will update the answer if anything changes. Some additional decisions ….13-2/29.5, 13-2/8.7, 13-4/19.
Ryan,
This occurred at Poppy Hills hole #12 par 5. There is a drainage culvert (with a very porous grate) on the cart path behind the green. My shot played from the left front bunker rolled over the green, onto the cart path, down the cart path, and into the bottom on the culvert. gone.
When a ball falls into a drainage culvert, and is not retrievable, is it played as an unplayable lie (with penalty) or as if it were on the cart path?
Bob
May 27th, 2010 at 8:19 amI was playing from the 2nd set of ladies tees (but it can apply to men’s, too) and on one hole, the markers for the second set were switched with the most forward set. My cart partner said I had to play from the further tee box since that’s where the marker should have been but I thought I should play from forwards or I’d be penalized for playing from the wrong set. Which was the correct tee box?
June 1st, 2010 at 7:42 amBob,
June 1st, 2010 at 9:34 amNote 2 to Rule 24-2 applies. If the ball is not immediately recoverable, another ball may be substituted. The grate is considered part of the cart path and you may take relief without penalty.
Diane,
June 1st, 2010 at 9:42 amIt is the Committee’s responsibility to make sure that the tee markers are in their proper location. When there is a question, the player should contact a member of the committee for clarification. If a committee person is not available you may want to play two balls under Rule 3-3. In your situation, I would recommend you play from the same color tees that you had played on previous holes. Playing from any other set would be a violation of 11-4.
Ryan:
Under rule 25-1. It states that a ball is in ground under repair if it lies in or touches a ground under repair margin line. My question is if a ball is outside the margin of the ground under repair and your stance puts you inside the margin do you get relief even if your stance or swing is not affected.
Thanks,
Phil
June 4th, 2010 at 2:17 pmPhil,
I believe you are reading the definition of Ground Under Repair.
Rule 25-1a states:
June 4th, 2010 at 3:02 pmInterference by an abnormal ground condition occurs when a ball lies in or touches the condition or when the condition interferes with the player’s stance or the area of his intended swing. If the player’s ball lies on the putting green, interference also occurs if an abnormal ground condition on the putting green intervenes on his line of putt. Otherwise, intervention on the line of play is not, of itself, interference under this Rule.
Please expand a bit on your answer to Phil. Let’s say a white GUR line has been drawn around a tree that has fallen down and a player’s ball is outside the line, but his stance is inside the line. I had thought that the player would get relief if his stance was on or inside the line no matter whether interference existed from the tree. So, am I reading your answer correctly that stance only (not ball) inside the GUR gets the player relief only if there is actual interference with the stance or swing? Similarly, if a wet muddy area has been circled in white and the ball is outside the line, but the stance is inside the line, would the player get relief?
June 5th, 2010 at 8:22 amEd,
June 6th, 2010 at 8:04 pmThe definition of Ground Under Repair includes the lines defining it. If a player has interference from the line for his stance, lie of ball, or area of intended swing; he is entitled to relief. See definition of Ground Under Repair and Rule 25.
Is a rules official (allowed, prohibited, encouraged — pick one) from telling a player that what he is about to do is against the rules before the infraction actually takes place?
June 10th, 2010 at 8:14 amJohn,
June 10th, 2010 at 1:36 pmGood question. Decision 34-2/3 States that a referee may inform a player that he is about to break a Rule, however he is under no obligation to do so. A referee is one who is appointed by the Committee to accompany player to decide questions of fact and apply the Rules. He must act on any breach of a Rule that he observes or is reported to him. Referees should strive to prevent violations by advising or reminding players of their rights.
A player’s ball is in a water hazard. To make sure the ball is his, he properly announces, marks and lifts the ball for identification. However, he cleans it well beyond what is necessary for identification. He replaces the ball and plays it out of the hazard. In that case, I assume he gets a one stroke penalty. If, after replacing the ball, he decides instead to proceed under some Rule 26 option, does he still get the cleaning penalty?
June 11th, 2010 at 8:15 amEd,
June 11th, 2010 at 9:21 amThe player would receive a one-stroke penalty under Rule 12-2 and if he elected to take relief from the water hazard, he would receive an additional one-stroke penalty under Rule 26. Principle 5 of Decision 1-4/12 would also apply.
After striking my ball it hit my golg bag, bouncing off to then hit me. Does this occur a 1 shot penalty as I only struck the ball once or is it a 2 shot penaly as 2 infringements were made?
June 13th, 2010 at 11:07 amCarol,
June 14th, 2010 at 6:09 amIt is a one stroke penalty under Rule 19-2. See decision 19-2/7.
After finishing a match tied, I discovered that my opponent’s index had changed the day before the match which was played on June 16. We played the match under the assumption that I would give him 7 strokes based on his June 1 index. His June 15 index indicates a 5 stroke difference. Based on that difference I would have won the match by 1 stroke. Can we reconstruct the match based on the new numbers, or must the match stand as played.
June 17th, 2010 at 8:18 amif i am a rightie but a left hander’s stance would be impeded, can i drop and then hit the ensuing ball right handed?
June 17th, 2010 at 3:40 pmAlan,
June 18th, 2010 at 8:52 amYou and your opponent should have verified your handicaps prior to the start of the match. Rule 6-2. When you started the match you had agreed to the 7 strokes (See decision 6-2a/1). The match stands as played, unless you can prove that your opponent knowingly played to the wrong handicap. See decision 6-2a/5. In that case the player would be disqualified from the competition.
Tom,
June 18th, 2010 at 9:00 amI am not completely clear on your question. I think you are talking about the situation described in decision 24-2b/17:
Q. A right-handed player’s ball is so close to a boundary fence on the left of a hole that the player, in order to play towards the hole, must play left-handed. In playing a left-handed stroke, the player’s backswing would be interfered with by an immovable obstruction. Is the player entitled to relief from the obstruction?
A. The player is entitled to relief since employment of an abnormal (left-handed) stroke is necessary in the circumstances — see Exception under Rule 24-2b.
The proper procedure is for the player to take relief for a left-handed stroke in accordance with Rule 24-2b(i).
The player may then use a normal right-handed swing for his next stroke. If the obstruction interferes with the swing or stance for the right-handed stroke, the player may take relief for the right-handed stroke in accordance with Rule 24-2b(i).
I was recently in a 4-man Scramble tournament in Reno, where you have an A, B, C, D handicapped players on a team, and you take turns playing the best ball of the team thru the hole for the score. While waiting to tee off on the next hole, I noticed that one or two of the players in the group ahead would hit their balls and before the rest of the team hit their shots would take their cart down the fair way to see where their balls landed and would signal back that it was okay and then the other players would hit their balls. As the A player for my own team, I didn’t think that was appropriate, but other than etiquette, undue delay, or envoking the provisional ball rule, I couldn’t find a rule to indicate it was a violation of the rules. Could you lend a hand here? Because if there isn’t any kind of violation, I might be tempted to start doing that same thing.
Thanks, Larry
June 19th, 2010 at 10:38 amLarry,
June 20th, 2010 at 9:36 pmYou will not find any rule in the Rules of Golf about Scrambles. If this seems unfair to you, than I would tell the Committee in charge of the event to write it in their rules of play to disallow it. Otherwise, teams may do what they wish.
Maybe you won’t be able to answer this since it’s a gambling question but I thought I’d try anyways. When playing skins in a co-ed golf tournament where men play from the whites tees and ladies play from red tees how should the skins be determined? Should they be calculated separately or use one handicap?
Scenario:
A woman gets 12 strokes for her handicap level. On hole #12 which is the 12th hardest hole for the red tees she pars the hole with a 4 giving her a net score of 3.
However, hole #12 for the white tees is the 15th hardest hole so when the skins are calculated (using the white tees handicaps) she gets no stroke giving her a net 4.
No one else in the league net birdies hole #12 so had the handicap of the red tees been used instead of the white tees she would have won the skins for that hole with her net 3.
Which handicaps should be used? Or is it just not possible for men and woman to play in the same game of skins when they play from different tees?
June 21st, 2010 at 12:03 pmCan you lean against a tree in a hazard to hit your ball. ( red stakes)
June 28th, 2010 at 3:45 pmJim,
June 29th, 2010 at 8:39 amThere is nothing in the Rules of Golf that prohibit a player from leaning against a tree to make a stroke when the ball lies in a hazard.
After flying over a par 3 my ball rest 2 inches from a residental street in which is marked OB with white stakes, my stance puts my back foot in the street. Do I get relief?
July 2nd, 2010 at 10:56 pmI hit a ball that is close to OB, so I decided to hit a provisional. Later, I did find my first ball but it was stuck in long dry grass. Can I declared it as unplayable? If so, how do I count my strokes?
July 15th, 2010 at 7:34 amIn taking a practice swing I accidentally hit the golf ball, do I hit
July 15th, 2010 at 8:07 amthe ball where it sits, replace the ball to its original position,
take a one stroke penalty, no penalty or swallow my pride.
Mario,
July 15th, 2010 at 8:55 amSee the definition of obstructions “Any part of an immovable artificial object that is out of bounds” is not an obstruction. You would not be entitled to relief.
Sherry,
When you found your original ball, you must proceed with it and your provisional ball is out of play. When you declare the original ball unplayable you have three options under penalty of one stroke(see Rule 28). If you were to drop two club-lengths (Rule 28c) from where the ball lies you would be playing your third stroke.
July 15th, 2010 at 9:02 amRobert,
July 15th, 2010 at 9:05 amA practice swing is not a stroke. When you accidentally caused your ball to move it is a one-stroke penalty under Rule 18-2a and the ball must be replaced.
can the caddy brush a leaf off the players line when putting?
July 15th, 2010 at 10:49 amWalter,
July 15th, 2010 at 11:02 amDecision 6-4/10 states that a caddie may remove loose impediments on the line of putt or elsewhere – Rules 16-1a and 23-1.
Thanks Ryan, one last question. while removing the loose impediment, the caddie’s hand slightly touched the line, ie., the grass on the line. Is that a loss of hole in match play?
July 15th, 2010 at 11:42 amWalter,
July 15th, 2010 at 11:49 amThe caddie may touch the line with his hand or otherwise when removing loose impediments. He may not press anything down. See Rule 16-1a(i).
Hello and good morning,
I have a 2-part question:
A green has 2 sand traps, one on either side (right and left). A players ball is in the right bunker. Can that player ground his club in the left bunker with out penalty?
Part 2 and the reason for part 1.
Players ball is in the right bunker. He hits it out only to go into the left bunker on the other side of the green. In discust, while still standing in the right bunker, he smacks the sand with his club. Has he grounded the club and is there a penalty?
Thank you.
Mike Bailey
July 17th, 2010 at 11:38 amMike,
Part 1 – No. See Rule 13-4a. A player may not test the condition of a similar hazard.
July 17th, 2010 at 5:54 pmpart 2 – No penalty. Exception #3 states that once a player has played the ball out of a hazard and the ball comes to rest in another hazard he may do anything he wants in the first hazard.
Golfer hits his tee shot. In the fairway he inadvertently hits the wrong ball. Replaces the wrong ball; then spends five minutes looking for his own ball, but can’t find it, so he goes back to the tee box and hits again. Do you compound penalties? Two for hitting the wrong ball; one for the lost ball and now he’s hitting four off the tee box?
July 19th, 2010 at 12:04 pmJeanette,
July 19th, 2010 at 2:40 pmYes, that is correct. The player has incurred a total of three penalty strokes. Two for playing the wrong ball (Rule 15-3) and one for the lost ball (Rule 27).
I’m playing a round, and my friend has a new driver. I’m dying to try it. On one hole, I hit my drive to an area where I can’t see if my ball is in play or not (say it went behind some trees into some long grass). I play a provisional for a lost ball, and use my friend’s driver. I end up finding my original ball, which cancels the ‘provisional’ stroke. Does this also cancel any penalty I would get for playing a stroke with someone else’s driver?
July 21st, 2010 at 11:11 amRandy,
July 21st, 2010 at 1:23 pmThere is no penalty, as long as the provisional ball does not become the ball in play. See Decision 5-1/3.
I was playing in a jgnc jr. golf tournament and one of the kid was using a rangefinder. I asked to see if you could for future references and he looked like he was doing it kind of like he was sneeking it. So can you use a rangefinder or gps in a jgnc tournament or any tournament?
July 21st, 2010 at 3:43 pmBrody,
July 21st, 2010 at 7:07 pmI believe that electronic distance measuring devices are permitted in JGANC events. If electronic distances measuring devices were permitted in an event, then it would be in writing on either the Conditions of Competition or the Local Rules. Each tournament may have its own set of conditions and Local Rules and you should always read them prior to playing in an event. Rule 6 in the Rules of Golf says that it is the player’s responsibility to know the Rules.
When juniors are playing in a competition should they all play off the same tees, regardless of handicap.
July 22nd, 2010 at 5:50 amRecently a stableford competition was held with some juniors playing off whites and some off red tees and the problem came with entering scores for handicap purposes as the stroke index is different from these tees.
Also what handicap should be attained for the juniors to switch from red to yellow tees for general play.
I Charles F. Castro have been a member for a lot of years. My NCGA # is 6159479. Question please reply. When a player marks his ball on the green and is ask to move the marker and forgets to move the marker back.What is the ruleing. My understanding is a player is to be notified of the infraction before he tees of on the next hole or before he lives the golf course so he can corect his mistake and take a penalty or he can not be penalized. please respond Yours truly charles f castro
July 22nd, 2010 at 8:03 pmCarol,
July 23rd, 2010 at 9:09 amWhether juniors or adults; when players compete from different sets of tees in the same competition the difference in course rating must be applied to the player’s handicap. If there are no handicaps being used than the players should be broken into separate flights so they are competing on the same golf course throughout the competition.
Charles,
July 23rd, 2010 at 9:14 amWhen the player moves his mark (or ball), fails to replace it and plays a stroke. The player has played from a wrong place and the ball is holed. See Rule 20-7. Only, if there is a serious breach (significant advantage gained), does the player have to correct the error prior to teeing off on the next hole.
When doing a card for handicap purposes, does the marker himself have to have a legitmate handicap or can any responsible person mark the card?
July 29th, 2010 at 11:13 amI noticed on a green today what looked like an old hole plug except that it was at least two inches greater in diameter than a usual hole plug. It is either a repair job on a poorly replaced old hole or it is a sod plug of some sort for a badly damaged area of the green. Whatever it may be, could it be repaired under Rule 16-1c?
July 30th, 2010 at 4:50 pmRule 10 (Order of Play) states that the ball furthest from the hole is played first.
1) can you and your opponent agree to change the order for a particular shot? …say in order to speed up play.
2) can you go ahead and hole out a short putt with or without permission from your opponent?
August 1st, 2010 at 9:21 pmCarol,
August 2nd, 2010 at 1:20 pmI am not sure I fully understand your question. A “Marker” under the Rules of Golf can be anybody assigned by the committee. See definition of Marker.
Ed,
August 2nd, 2010 at 1:27 pmThe areas that you have described may not be repaired under Rule 16-1c. Only ball marks and old hole plugs may be repaired on the putting green. Any other damage that might assist the player in his subsequent play of the hole may not be repaired. The player may request to have it fixed by someone on the Committee or the Committee may declare the area to be ground under repair.
Darryl,
August 2nd, 2010 at 1:32 pmIn match play, the order of play is extremely important. There is no penalty for playing out of turn, however the oponent may recall the stroke. Players may not agree to play out of turn to speed up play or for other reasons. The violation for agreeing to do so would result in disqualification of both players (see Rule 1-3). If a player taps in a short putt there is no penalty, but the oponent still has the right to recall the stroke.
What is the penalty in a match play event if a player A plays 2 balls under Rule 3-3, which only comes into effect for Stroke play? I assume the score with the original ball must count, and if the player uses the score from the 2nd ball he will lose the hole. Does Player B need to lodge a protest before the play of the next hole, or will the Committee take action when the players come in fro a ruling? If Player B does not lodge a protest, which of Player A’s scores is used?
August 3rd, 2010 at 10:20 pmScott,
August 4th, 2010 at 8:45 amThe score with the original ball would count unless player B made a claim, then he would win the hole. See Decision 3-3/9.
From the fairway I hit a blind shot to the green over a large mound. The shot appeared to land short and I believed it to be in a lake over the mound but short of the green. I dropped short of the lake and hit a provisional to the green. When I got to green I found my original ball which was not visiable until I reached the green. Since I had not played a shot from beyond my original ball I beleive my original ball was still in play. My playing partners thought my provisional was in play. That seemed wrong because I would have had to walk all the way to the green to confirm the ball was in the lake? Help
August 4th, 2010 at 3:58 pmIn today’s golf round, a player hit her ball across a water hazard (marked by yellow stakes), across the green, into a bunker behind the green. Her second shot went across the green and into the hazard. I thought she had a couple of drop options but the other two players said she had to drop back in the sand. What are the options for dropping if you are behind the green and hit into the hazard in front of the green? Thanks,
August 4th, 2010 at 5:52 pmWarren,
August 5th, 2010 at 3:40 pmRule 27-2 states that a player may play a provisional ball if the original ball may be lost OUTSIDE a water hazard. Unfortunately, you must make that walk up to the green to determine if the ball cleared the hazard, otherwise the ball you dropped and played is the ball in play. See Decision 27-2a/2.
Sheila,
If it is known or virtually certain that the ball has come to rest in a water hazard (yellow stakes) you should proceed under Rule 26 which is the water hazard rule. As such, you can take relief from the hazard with a penalty of one stroke using one of the options described in Rule 26.
OPTIONS UNDER RULE 26:
#1 Play the ball as it lies in the water hazard. #2 Play a ball as nearly as possible to the spot from which the original ball was last played. (Which means the player would have to drop a ball in the bunker). #3 Drop a ball behind the water hazard, keeping the point at which the ball last crossed the margin of the water hazard directly between the hole and the spot on which the ball is dropped, with no limit to how far behind the water hazard the ball may be dropped; options #2 and #3 the player incurs a one-stroke penalty.
August 5th, 2010 at 3:52 pmIn either a stroke or match play event, when does a withdrawal become official? If a player decides to withdraw during the course of play in a stroke tournament, at what point is the player actually out? Can he change his mind and rejoin the tournament? Same for match play, can a player say he is withdrawing or conceding holes, but then decide to rejoin a match and play in the rest of the holes?
August 5th, 2010 at 6:46 pmI know that if I take relief from an obstruction such as a cart path, I have to take complete relief. What about from a lateral water hazard? I drop the ball correctly within two club lengths, but the ball ends up fairly close to the margin of the hazard and to play the ball, my stance will be in the hazard. Is that ok? I can’t find anything in Rule 20-2c that says I must redrop.
August 6th, 2010 at 9:18 amScott,
August 6th, 2010 at 9:42 amThe Committee needs to determine how they want to handle withdrawals. To avoid charges of favoritism, it is best to have a written policy published in advance of a competition that says how withdrawals will be handled. Unlike concessions in match play, the Rules are silent on whether a withdrawal may be withdrawn.
Ed,
August 6th, 2010 at 9:44 amThat is correct. The player does not need to take complete relief from the lateral water hazard. As long as the ball when dropped, comes to rest outside the hazard, it is a good drop. The fact the player would have to stand in the hazard, is irrelevant.
Match play. I hit 150 yards onto the green. My opponent, standing near the green, walks up to my ball, marks it and lifts it, tossing it back my way. I did not ask him to mark and lift my ball. Any penalty here?
August 6th, 2010 at 12:50 pmRule 20-2 Dropping of the Golf Ball. The rule states that the ball should be dropped from shoulder height at arms length. Question is does the golfer have the arm to the side of his body or face the hole when dropping as long as neither position is closer to the hole? Thank you for your response.
August 7th, 2010 at 8:03 amDan Davey
Decision 8-1/2 says that distance is not considered advice and can be shared EXCEPT when distance is obtained from an electronic measuring device. Penalty is disqualification. I use a skycaddie and am often asked for distances. Is it in violation of rule 8-1 to share distances if they are derived from a GPS or laser device?
August 7th, 2010 at 9:58 amDuring a recent club 4-ball match I was presented with a curious question regarding caddies rules. We were on the 15th hole of our match when a friend of one of the opposing players started to follow our match by the 17th hole he was advising this player on her putts actively lining her putts with her. When I questioned this I was informed that he was her Caddie and as such he was allowed to advise her even though he was not present at the beginning of the match, never declared as her caddie at the start of the match and there were no other caddies present for the other players.
August 7th, 2010 at 11:11 amWhat are the ruling’s on this?
Thanks
DC
Question I’ve moved a mark at the request of another player is there a penalty for while moving the mark back replacing the ball instead of the mark in match play?
August 7th, 2010 at 11:46 amThanks
DC
Gordon,
August 7th, 2010 at 6:12 pmYour opponent would be penalized one stroke under Rule 18-3b.
Dan,
August 7th, 2010 at 6:16 pmA player may stand in any direction and his arm to his side, front or otherwise. By omission it is permitted.
Bob,
August 7th, 2010 at 6:22 pmElectronic Distance Measuring Devices are permitted in competition by Local Rule only. The use of electronic distance measuring devices without the local rule in effect results in disqualification. If the local rule is in effect than you may share the information from your device with your fellow competitors or opponents. They may even share the device. Without the local rule in effect, than you would be disqualified along with the fellow competitors and opponents that you were sharing the information with. See the Note to Rule 14-3.
Dan,
August 7th, 2010 at 6:31 pmA caddie may be hired or fired at any time during a round. A player does not have to make any declaration to his opponent or fellow competitor. The Rules do not allow a player to abuse this right. See Decision 8-1/26. Also, the Committee has the right to make it a condition of the competition that caddies are not permitted, See the Note to Rule 6-4. Be sure to read the conditions of competition prior to competing an any event.
Dan,
August 7th, 2010 at 6:47 pmThe Note to Rule 20-1 is a recommended procedure for a player to follow when moving a ball or ball marker out of the way for another player. A player should ensure that they follow the same procedure when moving a ball or ball marker to the side. For example: ball marker, club head, ball marker. If a player goes ball marker, club head, ball. The same procedure has not been followed and the opponent may make a claim that the player has played from a wrong place and the penalty is loss of hole (Rule 20-7).
Ryan,
Thanks for answer my question above regarding the order of play during a match. Here’s a related questions….
It’s a common practice at match play events for groups to agree to ignore 10-1a regarding Honors and have one team tee off first on the front nine first and the other team tee off first on the back nine. If discovered at the conclusion of the match should all of the players be disqualified?
August 9th, 2010 at 7:50 amDarryl,
August 9th, 2010 at 8:23 amWhen players knowingly waive Rule 10-1a they are subject to disqualification under Rule 1-3. If the players do not realize they are in violation until after the results have been officially announced then the match stands as played. See Decision 1-3/1.
Hi, A player has hit her approach shot to the right of the green. Her ball is about 3 feet off the green and can be putted. However, she has a sprinkler head on her line of putt. Is she allowed to take relief from the sprinkler head?
August 11th, 2010 at 3:57 pmDoes a water hazard have to marked (either red or yellow stakes/lines) to be treated as a water hazard under the USGA rules for a water hazard?
Meaning, a body of water (without stakes) on the course would be treated the same as if it were marked and the natural boundaries would determine if the ball were in or out of the hazard?
August 12th, 2010 at 10:29 amSheila,
August 12th, 2010 at 11:30 amA player is not entitled to releif for an immovable obstruction on the line of play (See Rule 24-2). However, a Committee may choose to adopt a Local Rule granting releif for obstructions close to putting greens that would give a player releif on line of play (See Appendix I, Page 110 of the 2010-2011 USGA Rules of Golf).
Caleb,
August 12th, 2010 at 11:41 amDecision 26/3 states that a water hazard is so by definition, whether or not so marked. When determining if the ball is in the water hazard the player should use the natural break of the land to determine the margin (See Decision 33-2a/4).
The first three holes were closed due to course maintenance. Three other holes were played twice to make up the difference. Am I required to still post my score due to this temporary configuration?
August 13th, 2010 at 6:11 amEric – thank you for your comment. In a perfect world, if this set-up was in place for an extended period of time and we were notified by the course, we would issue Temporary Ratings for golfers to post to taking into account the playing of the three holes twice. Lacking this, you are still required to post a score since you played 13 holes or more. You would ignore your hole scores the second time around on the three holes that you played twice. This would leave you with 15 hole scores and three blanks for the three holes out of play. You fill in the three blanks by awarding yourself a “par, plus any handicap strokes” you were entitled to on the unplayed holes. So if you are a 10 and the 4th, 12th and 8th ranked handicap holes were out of play, you would award yourself a bogey, par, bogey and then post to the normal rating. Thanks again – Jim Cowan
August 13th, 2010 at 11:25 amA player putts her ball in hole while ball still in motion. what is the penalty and does she need to correct the infraction?
August 13th, 2010 at 3:55 pmJon….player’s ball lies on a side hill, so the player hovers the club above the ball so as not to address the ball. The player makes a stroke at the ball which moved during the player’s back swing. The player missed hitting the ball. The player then moved to where the ball stopped and played from there…
August 13th, 2010 at 4:23 pmWas the player in violation of Rule 18 ???
Alice,
August 13th, 2010 at 6:38 pmThe player is in violation of playing a moving ball. Rule 14-5. The player incurs a loss of hole penalty in match play or a two stroke penalty in stroke play and the ball is played as it lies.
Bill,
August 13th, 2010 at 6:42 pmNo. There was not a violation of Rule 18-2b since the player had not adressed the ball. However, the stroke counts and the player would play the ball where it came to rest.
1) PLAYERS BALL IS IN WATER HAZARD .IMMOVABLE OBSTRUCTION OUTSIDE OF HAZARD INTERFERES WITH PLAYERS STANCE OR SWING. IS HE GRANTED FREE RELIEF FROM OBSTRUCTION ? THANKS
August 14th, 2010 at 9:19 pmIn Match Play, the opposing Captain does not give you a line-up. However as Captain you have sent your line-up to him well in advance. Any penalty? Or just a slap on the hand and nothing can be done?
August 15th, 2010 at 5:47 amI saw a version of the following happen: A player whose ball was in a fairway bunker stood behind his ball to get a feel for his line of play. While doing so he rested his club on the sand. He then took a practice swing in the bunker, again touching the sand. Finally, on his back swing he again touched the sand. How many penalty strokes? I think 6, or are any of them packaged together under 1-4/12?
August 15th, 2010 at 9:27 amLowell,
August 15th, 2010 at 12:00 pmNo. The player would not be entitled to relief.
Rule 24-2b, Immovable obstructions states “except when the ball lies in a water hazard or lateral water hazard”. Relief is all predicated on where the ball lies not the immovable obstruction.
Mike,
August 15th, 2010 at 12:11 pmThere is no penalty associated with a team captain not submitting his roster in a timely manner. Rule 5c of the Team Match Rules of Play state that the player list shall be exchange at least 24 hours in advance. Communication between the Team Captains is essential to avoid complications.
Ed,
August 15th, 2010 at 12:14 pmThe is a two stroke penalty. See principle 3 of Decision 14-12. Multiple Occurrences of the Same or Similar Acts Result in One Rule Being Breached More Than Once — Single Penalty Applied
Example 1: In stroke play, a competitor takes several practice swings in a hazard, touching the ground each time. The ruling would be a single two-stroke penalty (Also See Decision 13-4/3).
About Dustin Johnson in the bunker at 18 Sunday at the PGA. A streak of sunlight was shining through the crowd on his ball and he asked the crowd to block it so his ball would be in the shade. Did they assist the player illegally? Thanks, pat
August 15th, 2010 at 9:05 pmHi, i have a question: on a par three hole , i drove the ball over a water hazard. The ball landed on the right hand slope of the green and rolled down into the water. Where should i take a drop?
Thank you.
August 15th, 2010 at 9:48 pmMy ball is in high rough and positioned in a strange lie. WIth my sand wedge, I take a backswing and strike at the ball. I feel the impact with the ball (fairly strike it), and maintain forward momentum with my follow through. as I do so the ball ends up on the club face somehow. It did not ‘double hit’, I am 100% sure of that. Nor did I notice it was on the club face and alter my swing. I finish my follow through as I would normally. When I do the ball comes off the club face. I did not ‘throw it’ with the club or anything, but it probably looked like i did. I took my normal swing and normal follow through. Is this a penalty? This happened to me yesterday and again, I believe I fairly struck it, did not spoon or anything, did not guide it once it was left on the club, i just continued with the swing and I know the ball did not hit the club more than once.
August 16th, 2010 at 9:48 amPat,
August 16th, 2010 at 9:52 amDecision 14-2/2.5 explains that a player may not place an object or a person for the purpose of blocking sunlight from his ball. However, in Dustin’s case I believe he wanted them to stand still and not have the sunlight move. He did not care if it was sunny or shady, he just wanted it still. The rules officials also looked at that situation and felt what he had done had not violated the Rules.
Hytan,
August 16th, 2010 at 9:55 amFor your answer I will refer to Rule 26 (Water Hazards) of the Rules of Golf. If you have knowledge or virtual certainty that the ball is lost in the water hazard, than you have four options. #1 Play a ball as nearly as possible to the spot from which the original ball was last played. #2 Drop a ball behind the water hazard, keeping the point at which the original ball last crossed the margin of the water hazard directly between the hole and the spot on which the ball is dropped, with no limit to how far behind the water hazard the ball may be dropped; or #3 As additional options available only if the ball last crossed the margin of a lateral water hazard (red stake or line), drop a ball outside the water hazard within two club-lengths of and not nearer the hole than the point where the original ball last crossed the margin of the water hazard; or #4 a point on the opposite margin of the water hazard equidistant from the hole. In all four options you will be dropping the ball and receiving a one-stroke penalty. Thank you for your question.
Scott,
August 16th, 2010 at 10:11 amThe last paragraph in Decision 14-1/4 states that if a ball is fairly struck at, there is only momentary contact between the club-head and the ball or whatever intervenes between the club-head and the ball. By your description, I believe that you have violated Rule 14-1 and would incur a two-stroke penalty in stroke play or a loss of hole penalty in match play. However, if you feel that there was a substance (grass, mud, wet soil) causing the ball to adhere to the face of the club, then Decision 1-4/2 applies. NOTE: I have seen simalar situations in slow motion and the player has violated 14-4 (double hit), but didn’t realize it.
This par 3 at my club has a big boulder in the design of the hole. My question is, if the ball comes to rest on the boulder do get a free drop ? I say, play it off the rock or it’s an unplayable lie and take the penalty.
August 16th, 2010 at 11:34 amGreg,
August 16th, 2010 at 1:49 pmA big boulder is just that. It is not an obstruction. The player is not entitled to free relief. You are correct, the player may proceed under Rule 28; ball unplayable.
Is there a penalty for having someone attend the flag on the green when the shadow of the flag is on the exact line of the intended putt? I would assume no, but if you asked the person tending the flag to not touch or remove it until the putt was on the way, then maybe a penalty??. This has come up a time or two, especially in early or late day play when shadows are long.
Thank you for your thoughts!
August 16th, 2010 at 7:06 pmAt the PGA Championship on hole #18 in the last round, Dustin Johnson was preparing to hit his 2nd shot from a bunker. Let’s skip the grounding a club issue. He asked a spectator to move and block the light (element) that was shining on his ball. This was clearly heard on the television broadcast. Was this a violation of rule 14.2(a) and a two stroke penalty? Decision 14-2/2.5 allows a player to ask a spectator not to move, or move, so his shadow is not over the ball. However, the sunlight cannot be blocked from the ball.
August 16th, 2010 at 8:07 pmSteve,
August 16th, 2010 at 9:25 pmThere is no penalty for having a shadow cast on the putting green by the flagstick situated in the hole. Decision 8-2b/1 states that a player may have a line of putt indicated on the putting green by a shadow, however the shadow must be moved prior to the stroke being made. As long as the flagstick is in the hole and the person attending is not moving the flagstick shadow to indicate the line of putt and leave it threre during the stroke, there is no penalty.
George,
August 17th, 2010 at 7:13 amI checked with an official who was at the PGA regarding this question. The decision was that since he was asking for the area to either be all shade or all light that it was different from the decision where the player just wants his ball in the shade. Therefore there was no violation.
Can you remove a red stake(marking a lateral hazard) if it impedes your golf swing?
The ball lies in the hazard, directly behing a red stake (about 2 inches) May you remove the stake prior to hitting the golf ball?
August 17th, 2010 at 11:47 amEric,
August 17th, 2010 at 1:42 pmA stake used to identify a water hazard or lateral water hazard may be moved or removed without penalty, if the stake is movable. They are, by definition, movable obstructions. NOTE: The Committee may, by local rule, deem a movable obstruction to be an immovable obstruction.
Does the local rules at a course overide USGA rules?
August 18th, 2010 at 12:20 pmRyan, A further question is is the player can ask the flag attendant to not pull the flag until after a stroke is made. that is truly the issue we are trying to resolve. Thanks
August 18th, 2010 at 1:32 pmRegarding relief from a french drain – does it have to be in the local rules? If it’s not, is there anything in the rules/decisions that addresses this? I’ve looked and can’t find anything. One club I play with says you have to find gravel under the grass in order to get relief.
August 18th, 2010 at 8:30 pmCurt,
August 19th, 2010 at 1:09 pmRule 33 states that a Committee has no power to waive a Rule of Golf. Clubs may establish local rules as long as they are consistent with the policies set forth in the appendix of the Rules of Golf.
Steve,
August 19th, 2010 at 1:18 pmGood question. Yes. The player may ask to have the flagstick removed after the stroke was made. As long as he doesn’t ask to have the person attending the flagstick to hold it in some other manner to point out a line for putting with the shadow, there would be no penalty.
Linda,
August 19th, 2010 at 1:48 pmA French Drain is not required to have exposed stone. However, if a French Drain does not have exposed stone, then the Committee in charge of the competition or golf course must specify that it is ground under repair. Decision 13-2/27 allows a player to probe to see if there are rocks below or around the ball. If there is a chance that the club could contact the rocks in the French drain, relief would be justified. We usually will probe with a tee around the ball to see if we can feel rocks. If so, we would grant a player relief. We wouldn’t want a player’s club to hit the rocks when they take a divot.
A player was having a bad day and didn’t hit a green in regulation until the 18th hole. The putt was so long he didn’t bother to ask anyone to tend the flag; however, the ball was on line for the hole so he yelled for someone to tend the flag. A friendly fellow competitor obliged and pulled the flag to prevent the possibility of the ball hitting the flagstick. Rule 17-1 tells us the flagstick can’t be tended after the stroke has been made. So who gets the penalty? the nice guy who came to help or the lazy player who was too mentally fatigued to ask for help in the first place?
August 20th, 2010 at 3:44 pmDavid,
August 20th, 2010 at 4:17 pmUnfortunately, the player that rushed over and removed that flagstick would be in breach of Rule 1-2 (exerting influence on the ball) and incur a two-stroke penalty in stroke play or loss of hole in match play. It is the players responsibility to know the rules.
The 18th Hole at Micke Grove Golf Links is a Par 4 with a water hazard near the green. The area in between the water hazard and the green is guarded by a large tree and deep grass. Out of Bounds is also near by in the form of a fence that separates the golf course from the zoo. During the Club Championship the following happened during the final round on Sunday:
On the 18th Hole Player A plays his second shot towards the green of a par 4. His shot hits a tree near a water hazard but no one in the group of 4 players can see where the ball went after hitting the tree. Player A then uses Rule 26-1 and takes relief from the water hazard as a provisional ball (Ball 2) and plays his next shot onto the green. All 4 players look for Player A’s original shot near the water hazard by the green but could not find the ball. Since the group was close to the Clubhouse the group requested for a Member of the Committee to come out and make a decision on how to play because Player B was in dispute thinking the ball should be a lost ball.
The committee member comes to the 18th green with the rule book and reads The Decisions of Golf Rule 26-1/1 about the meaning of “Known or Virtually Certain” Decision. It was then determined by the group to play another ball (Ball 3) from the original shot location proceeding under the Lost Ball Rule 27-1 stroke and distance as a second ball and let the Committee decide as to the rule. Player A plays Ball 3 onto the fringe and then chips in for a score of 5. Player A then plays Ball 2 on the green and 2 putts for a 6.
The committee struggled with the ruling, as two rules seem to apply. Rule 3-3 “Doubt as to Procedure” and Rule 26 1/3 seems to apply as well.
A few questions:
Player A incorrectly dropped his ball using Rule 26-1 (Ball 2 from above), (Player A was not entitled to play a provisional ball for a ball he believed to be in the hazard) is this ball abandoned because it was an improper drop? And is there any penalty from that improper drop? Since no player or spectator could see Ball 2 actually go into the hazard and it was not certain that the ball went into the hazard. Reading The Decisions of Golf Rule 26 – 1/3 seems to apply even though the ball was not found outside the hazard.
Player A did not announce in advance which ball he intended to count as his score but was waiting for a ruling to determine which score to count. Is there a penalty for not announcing which ball the player intended to use before playing a stroke?
Should the committee have counted the 3rd Ball as the ball in play since the second ball was not dropped properly and give the player a 5?
The committee’s decision was to count the second ball as the ball in play and gave the player a 6 on the hole. However should there been a penalty as described in the Definitions of Golf Rule 26 1/3?
August 22nd, 2010 at 6:56 pmTim,
August 23rd, 2010 at 8:15 amWhen the player dropped and played the ball under Rule 26-1 he was proceeding under inapplicable rule played from a wrong place (See Decision 34-3/6). Since the player had gained a significant distance advantage when he played the stroke he was required to correct the error under Rule 20-7. The ball he dropped and played under Rule 27-1 is the ball in play. His score for the hole would be 7. 4 strokes and 3 penalty strokes (one under 27-1 and two under 20-7). Rule 3-3 is not an applicable rule because the player must invoke Rule 3-3 prior to proceeding with any ball. Rule 20-7 is the applicable rule.
Ryan,
August 23rd, 2010 at 10:13 amThe committee made the wrong decision (I was part of the committee, not a player involved). This decision resulted in player A winning the Club Championship over Player B. Since the committee was incorrect in the ruling, can the result of the tournament be changed? I read in Match Play that the decsion could be changed but I am not sure about Stroke Play?
In a stroke play event Player A tees off and hits it into the spectators or galary. When Player A and his competitors arive at the ball they find out that the ball was picked up by an outside agency (spectator) and then placed back down after they realized it was a ball in play. The outside agency (spectator) did say he placed it right where he picked it up.
August 23rd, 2010 at 10:25 amWhat is the correct ruling on this situation?
1) Player A mus play they ball as it lies?
2) Player A must take a drop close to the orginal ball location?
Tim,
August 23rd, 2010 at 11:07 amThe decision cannot be changed. See Decision 34-3/1. A Committee may not correct an incorrect ruling after the competition has closed unless the circumstances in 34-1b apply.
Dan,
August 23rd, 2010 at 11:15 amThe player would be required to play the ball as it lies, unless there is evidence that the ball was not put back in its original location. See Decision 18-1/3 and 18-1/4.
Ryan,
August 23rd, 2010 at 11:26 amThanks for the quick response. So we are suppossed to go with what the outside agency says is the original spot? Just wondering since the players, rules official could not be sure of the exact spot. The only person who saw the original spot wash the outside agency “spectator”.
The above resulted in Player A and Player B being tied for the Club Championship. The playoff was a 3 hole playoff beginning at Hole 10 and continuing through Hole 12. On the first playoff hole (Hole 10), Player A drives his ball into a fairway bunker. Player A and his friend (The friend was a competitor during the tournament but wanted to see the playoff) approach the bunker. Player A’s friend walks in the bunker to the other side to fetch a rake for the bunker for Player A. As player A’s friend is walking back through the bunker he rake the bunker of his foot tracks. The committee member immediately stops the friend but the he raked at least 3 shoe imprints before stopping. Player A stated that the friend was not his caddy. The committee checked the definition of the caddy in the definitions of golf and determined that the person was not a caddie and no penalty strokes were given to player A as a result of the bunker raking. Player A goes on to win by one stroke.
What was the proper ruling? Was the friend acting as a caddie or a spectator?
August 23rd, 2010 at 12:08 pmTim,
August 23rd, 2010 at 1:19 pmThe individual that raked the bunker would not meet the definition of caddie. The raking was a casual act similar to the act described in Decision 6-4/4.5. No penalty to the player.
Thanks for all the clarification Ryan.
August 23rd, 2010 at 4:24 pmRyan,
August 24th, 2010 at 6:10 amThanks for the quick response. So we are suppossed to go with what the outside agency says is the original spot? Just wondering since the players, rules official could not be sure of the exact spot. The only person who saw the original spot wash the outside agency “spectator”.
Dan,
August 24th, 2010 at 10:10 amYes. You would have to go with the spectator’s testimony.
In the LPGA @ Pumpkin Ridge on the last hole C. Kerr hit her second shot into the 18th green, which is fronted by a water hazard, and had a slope from the green’s edge to the wter hazard. Slope also had a yellow line indicating the hazard, approx3-5 feet from the water’s edge and5-6 feet from the green.(as best as I can recall.The ball crossed the hazard line and hit the slope and then rolled back crossing the hazard line and into the water. Could Kerr have marked the point where the ball crossed the hazard mark into the water and from that mark and take her penalty relief and no closer to the hole dropped her ball on the slope(this would put her closer to the green, without crossing the water hazard) as the ball had cleared the hazard before going back into the water. Would Kerr have had the option to keep the point where the ball had crossed the hazard line and the flag and made a drop between the hazard line and the water as there was approx 3-5 feet of land to stand on, and not had to go back over to the other side of the water.(this would apply to the requirement that she could go back as far as she wanted to. I believe you have an option to drop a ball in a hazard.
August 24th, 2010 at 12:15 pmThank you
M. Step,
August 24th, 2010 at 1:16 pmRule 26-1 states that when a ball comes to rest in a water hazard (yellow lines and/or stakes) the player has three options.
1. Play the ball as it lies.
and under penalty of one stroke:
2. Play a ball as nearly as possible to the spot from which the original ball was last played.
3.Drop a ball behind the water hazard, keeping the point at which the original ball last crossed the margin of the water hazard directly between the hole and the spot on which the ball is dropped, with no limit to how far behind the water hazard the ball may be dropped.
Hi, In match play, my opponent holed out the ball indicating that she had scored a par with a net birdie (she received a stroke on this hole) and that she won the hole (I was putting for a par and had no strokes on this hole). I was told to pick up my marker since she had won the hole. As we were walking off the green, I replayed the hole in my mind and remembered that she had not reached the green in two but was in the bunker…giving her a gross score of 5 and a net score of 4. If I had made my putt, we would have halved the hole instead of her winning it. My take is that she gave erroneous information causing me to pick up my putt and therefore she should lose the hole. What is the official ruling?
August 24th, 2010 at 2:08 pmSheila,
August 24th, 2010 at 2:17 pmDecision 9-2/6 Player Reporting Wrong Score Causes Opponent with Chance for Half to Pick Up Ball
Q. In match play, A holed out and stated to B, his opponent, that he had scored a 4. B, having played four strokes, picked up assuming he had lost the hole. A then realized that he had scored a 5. He immediately told B. What is the ruling?
A. A gave wrong information as to the number of strokes taken and, under the principle of Rule 9-2, A would normally lose the hole. However, since A had holed out for no worse than a half, the hole was halved — see Rule 2-2.
A friend says he read that if player A hits his tee shot near the hole on a par 3 and player B’s tee shot hits player A’s ball and knocks it into the hole player A’s ball is considered holed and he scores an ace. Everything I read in the rule book says player A’s ball must be replaced and there is no penalty for either player.
August 25th, 2010 at 10:42 amWhat is the correct ruling
Dave,
August 25th, 2010 at 11:06 amJust so you know, I get 40% of all winning bets! Ha, ha. Rule 18-5 states that if a ball in play and at rest is moved by another ball in motion after a stroke, the moved ball must be replaced. You were right.
My question is when taking relief from ground under repair and the nearest full relief is on the putting surface, can you drop on the green. If not allowed to drop on the green where is your relief? Thank you, Dennis
August 26th, 2010 at 5:22 amMy question is when there is a lateral water hazard within 2 club lengths of a green and your point of entry plus 2 club lengths puts you on the green can you drop on the green? Thank you.
August 26th, 2010 at 5:25 amDennis,
August 26th, 2010 at 8:23 amSee Rule 25-1. When your ball lies through the green, your nearest point of relief may not be on a putting green.
Dennis,
August 26th, 2010 at 8:25 amYes, when dropping from a lateral water hazard that is within two club-lengths of the putting green a player may drop on the putting green. See Rule 26-1.
Let me state my question again, ques is if you are in GUR and take a correct drop and it rolls less than 2 club lengths and no closer to hole ( on the green) is the ball in play or must you redrop?
August 26th, 2010 at 8:46 pmDennis,
August 27th, 2010 at 8:06 amWhen a ball rolls and comes to rest on a putting green it is one of the seven times in Rule 20-2c that the ball must be re-dropped.
A ball comes to rest on a bridge crossing a water hazard. What are the players options?
August 27th, 2010 at 12:15 pmTim,
August 27th, 2010 at 1:10 pmThe player is not entitled to free relief for the bridge. The player may play the ball as it lies and he may touch the bridge with his club without penalty or he may proceed with his options under Rule 26-1.
My question is; I was on the fringe with a 8′ left to right putt with 2′ of break in it. my competitor’s ball came to rest in my putting line and as he marked his ball he walk in my line and imprinted the grween with footprints in my line, I made a comment to this and his reply was that i didn’t have a line as I was not on the green. I stated that he couldn’t delibritly alter the putting surface. Who’s right? and is there a rule to address this situation?
Thanks
August 31st, 2010 at 5:33 amGary,
August 31st, 2010 at 8:27 amDecision 16-1a/13 States that you may have the line of play restored to it’s original condition. There are several instances in the Rules of Golf that allow a player to have his line of play restored. Also see Decision 13-2/8. The player is always entitled to the lie and line of play he had when his ball came to rest and if it has been damaged by another person it may be repaired.
I saw a LPGA player was DQed for using a weight that she attached to her club and warmed up with it while she was waiting to tee off as play was backing up. I understand the rule on why she was DQed, but a member of my foursome has been complaining that I have been swinging my driver with a cover on it before I tee off? It does have a little weight, and resistance to it, but it was not designed to “help you stretch”. This incident has just added fuel to his fire. What is the rule and am I breaking one?
September 1st, 2010 at 3:22 pmMike,
September 2nd, 2010 at 8:39 amDecision 14-3/10 refers to a weighted head cover. If it is a standard head cover there is no problem. If it is a head cover that was designed to act as a training or swing aid, the player would be disqualified.
I hit my ball where it landed behind and next to a pile if branches and leaves that have been on the course for months. Now the pile blocks my line of flight to the green plus I have to stand on the pile to hit my ball. Do I get any relief?
September 3rd, 2010 at 3:54 amJohn,
September 3rd, 2010 at 6:52 amFrom your description, the branches would not be considered “material piled for removal” as described in the definition of ground under repair. You would not be entitled to relief, but you may move them. The branches would be considered loose impediments and you would be entitled to move them away from your line of play and stance. However, if your ball moves during the process you would receive a one stroke under Rule 18-2a.
Rule 7-1 states: When two or more rounds of a stroke-play competition are to be played over consecutive days, a competitor must not practice between those rounds on any competition course remaining to be played, or test the surface of any putting green on such course by rolling a ball or roughening or scraping the surface. What if the competition take place over consecutive Saturdays, would someone be able to play a round during the week?
September 7th, 2010 at 11:05 amJeff,
September 7th, 2010 at 4:37 pmConsecutive days refers to days that are back to back like Saturday, Sunday. A player may practice on the course, during the week, prior to an event that is being held on consecutive weekends.
I currently golf on a Junior College league in Fresno, Ca. At our tournament today a coach asked if we could use smart phones to give us a distance between tee and green.The smart phones now have an apt so we can download the course information similar to a sky caddie. The head coach did not have an answer so they said “no”. My question is can we use the smart phone on the course or not? Do the pros use the smart phone during their tournaments?
September 7th, 2010 at 8:09 pmWhile playing a friendly match at Roddy Ranch, which we had not played in some time, we came to a par 4 hole which is a slight dogleg right with a marked hazard to the left (old gravel pit?). One golfer hit his ball in the hazard on the left, another hit a ball on a hillside to the right of the fairway.
As we went to look for the ball on the hill we came across a sign saying “evironmental area – keep out”. This was about 50 yards before the ball on the hill – which was above another sign “beware of rattlesnakes”. The player played his shot off the hill to the green. About 50 yards further, there was another sign “environmental area – keep out”. These signs were not there the last time we played Roddy. Further, there were no green topped red stakes or white stakes delineating where this enviromnental area started and ended, or how to play a ball in such an area.
The hazard on the left was properly marked with red stakes and green tops – same environmental hazard signed present.
Without any clear information about whether this should be played as a hazard, out of bounds, where it began, ended, etc. we played it as “course improperly marked” and ignored them.
This wasn’t a tournament, but how should we have proceded?
September 9th, 2010 at 2:31 pmAndi,
September 10th, 2010 at 8:41 amThe USGA and R&A has issued a joint statement regarding the use of electronic devices. Decision 14-3/0.5 states that any device used for distance measuring may not contain any other functions that are prohibited (e.g., gradient, wind speed, temperature). The joint statement states that multi-functional devices such as mobile phones may not be used as a distance measuring device if the device contains any prohibited features.
Many phones have built-in applications that are difficult, if not impossible to delete. For example, the iPhone 3GS ships with a compass application pre-installed. A compass is one of the devices that may not be used on a golf course (Decision 14-3/4). It is not possible to remove the compass application from the iPhone 3GS. Therefore, it is prohibited to use it as an Electronic Distance Measuring Device under the Rules of Golf. The penalty for using a prohibited device is disqualification.
The iPhone 3G does not have the compass application or any other prohibited applications pre-installed. As long as the user has not installed a prohibited application, the iPhone 3G may be used as an Electronic Distance Measuring Device.
Before using any electronic distance measuring device during a competition, the player should ensure that it conforms to the Rules. Any doubt of conformity will be resolved against the player. The local rule for use of electronic distance measuring devices has not been adopted on the PGA Tour.
Joe,
September 10th, 2010 at 8:50 amIt sounds like the areas were intended to be marked as environmentally sensitive areas from which play is prohibited. The ball on the right did not seem to be in a hazard and I cannot tell you what the intention of the course was without any stakes or lines or local rules. The ball on the left sounds like it was in a lateral water hazard defined by stakes with green tops. The player should have proceeded with one of his options under Rule 26-1.
Ryan,
September 11th, 2010 at 5:38 pmI hit a tree. The ball was lost left across a cart path which had a red line painted along its left side. Is the nearest point of relief the cart path and then one club length right of the cart path? If my feet are still on the path do I have to redrop since this is a drop with a penalty?
Cy,
September 12th, 2010 at 6:34 amTaking relief from the lateral water hazard is your first step Rule 26-1 (i.e., two club-lengths from where it last crossed the margin of the hazard). This may mean that you may be dropping on the cart path. If after dropping, you may then elect to take relief from the cart path under Rule 24-2. If after dropping from the hazard, the ball does not roll into a situation in which it required to be re-dropped under Rule 20-2c you may play the ball if you have interference from the path.
Help. We have an argument and one guy is on probation because of it.
If I am in a sand trap and I ground my club in an adjacent trap (not the trap I am in) is there a penalty for grounding the club? Also what rule covers this question.
Thanks a bunch.
September 13th, 2010 at 8:31 amPaul,
September 13th, 2010 at 10:55 amRule 13-4a says that a player may NOT test the condition of the hazard or any similar hazard. It is a two stroke penalty.
The Powers That Be,
Is it legal to listen to music while playing? I qualified for my men’s club championship. While qualifying, on first day of aggregate score two players in our foursome had continual chitchats on the green and the tee boxes. At the 15th hole I had to back away from a bunker shot at least 3 time because of there lack of respect and etiquette. On the next hole I put in the ear buds of my phone to block out their continued noise. This week I would like to add music of my ear buds are in. Is this legal, no penalty?
September 14th, 2010 at 9:36 amMichael,
September 14th, 2010 at 4:39 pmYes, it is legal to listen to music while playing. See Decision 14-3/16.
Question: new to the game, a player picked up a ball (shot) he didn’t like and re teed under provisional. what is penalty in this situation? previous player put tee shot OB assumed lost, introduced 2nd ball under provisional (new player assumed he could do similar with provisional, BUT on original ball)
September 16th, 2010 at 6:18 amDave,
September 16th, 2010 at 12:58 pmThe player is not playing a provisional ball he is proceeding under stroke and distance (Rule 20-5). He would be lying three with the second ball from the tee. See definition of provisional ball and Rule 27-2.
We played a stableford competition starting our round on the 10th hole. Thus the 9th hole was our last. The winner had to be decided on countback. Is the countback score taken on the last holes we played i.e 7th – 9th; (our 16th – 18th) the way we played it or is it calculated using holes 16 to 18 (our 7th – 9th)Thank you
September 19th, 2010 at 3:14 amPaul,
September 20th, 2010 at 7:16 amIt is up to the Committee to decide how to break ties. I am not familiar with the countback system. In the Appendix of the Rules of Golf they refer to the last 9-Holes as 10-18. If the entire field started on Hole 10, the Committee may choose to use Holes 1-9.
Please explain the drop options for a ball in a lateral hazard on the right side of a green but stance, swing, and line of play is obstructed by a temporary immovable obstruction. (construction fence) Rule 28? or local ruling necessary? Is there a difference for a permanent immovable obstruction?
Thanks
September 22nd, 2010 at 8:19 amPeter,
September 22nd, 2010 at 11:08 amIf the Committee has defined the fence as a temporary movable obstruction, then the player would follow the guidelines set forth in Appendix I in the Rules of Golf. If the fence is an immovable obstruction then Rule 24-2 would be the applicable Rule. It is up to the Committee to define the fence. Either way, it is a two step process. The player must first take relief from the hazard and then take relief from the obstruction.
I know if you strike a ball more than once with a swing there is a penalty, but what if : a players ball is is in a bunker with very fluffy sand. When he takes his swing it evident by the amount of sand thrown that the club could not have touched the ball, but his club clearly comes in contact with the ball once it is airborne. ( there is no sound and the player has no sensation of hitting the ball untill the ball is in the air well off the bunkers surface ). Is there a penalty???? Just thought I’d ask, Thank you for your time, Jacob
September 24th, 2010 at 7:32 amJacob,
September 24th, 2010 at 8:49 amWhen the player strikes the moving ball, in this instance, it is a one stroke penalty added to his score. See decision 14-4/3.
In our (small member club) match play championship it was decided by staff that the ladder would be filled out by playing par instead of having byes to allow maximum participation. During the middle rounds 2 members who were each playing against par decided to join their matches and then during the round conceded putts to each other that allowed the hole to be halved or won, even though they were playing individual matches agasinst par.. One person lost to par and did not advance however the other person beat par and was advanced to the next round. Their arguement is that they only gave putts which would have obviously been conceded in any match. 4″-8″s. I am interested in the official interepretation and rules governing this situation for my personal understanding and self awareness as I may play par in subsequant rounds. Your response is appreciated
September 25th, 2010 at 11:55 amOn the putting green can you use the palm of your hand to clear your line of sand between the ball and the hole?
September 26th, 2010 at 10:49 amKip,
September 26th, 2010 at 8:37 pmWhen playing a Par Competition (Rule 32), a player that does not return a score on a hole (he doesn’t hole out), would be recorded as a loss on that hole. It is a form of stroke play, yet it is scored as match play. Concessions are not part of this format.
Carol,
September 26th, 2010 at 8:42 pmYes, a player may use the palm of their hand to remove loose impediments on the putting green. The only restriction when removing loose impediments on the putting green is that a player may not press anything down. See Rule 16-1 (i).
IN STROKE PLAY – MAY A PLAYER AFTER HOLING OUT MAKE A PRACTICE PUTT ON THE PUTTING GREEN WHERE SHE JUST HOLED OUT. BY THIS I MEAN SHE ACTUALLY PUTTS A BALL INTO THE HOLE.
September 27th, 2010 at 5:59 amOn my first hole, I hit a 5 iron in the middle of the fairway, but could not find my ball. After a few minutes, I asked my fellow players to keep looking and I announced I would hit a provisional off the tee. I hit my 5 iron again and when I approached my second ball, I found my first ball about 5 yards ahead — it had plugged right next to a sprinkler head in some very wet ground. I told the guys I was playing with it, I had found my first ball and proceeded to play it out. At the club house I was recounting my round and I was told that I played the hole wrong. I was told once I had gone back to the tee and played the second ball, I should have played that ball, even though I found the first. We were playing in a club tournament, so I disqualified myself. Was that the right call?
September 27th, 2010 at 9:39 amDebby,
September 27th, 2010 at 11:55 amYes, Rule 7-2 states that a player may practice putting on the hole last played. However, a Committee may adopt a Local Rule prohibiting practice on the hole last played.
Carlos,
September 27th, 2010 at 12:00 pmA provisional ball is played prior to going forward to search for the original ball. Once you played another ball it became the ball in play under stroke and distance, Rule 27-1. When you played the original ball it was a wrong ball, Rule 15-3, and you were required to correct the error prior to starting the next hole. When you failed to correct the error you were disqualified.
During the alternate shot matches in the Ryder Cup this morning, on the 17th hole, Zach Johnson ran the back of his hand across the green just before he removed his ball mark and placed his ball. He did this behind the putting line, not in it, but would this be considered testing the surface?
October 2nd, 2010 at 10:14 amMichelle,
October 4th, 2010 at 3:32 pmA player may not roughen or scrape the surface of a green for the purpose of testing it. If a player does so, he is penalized two-strokes under Rule 16-1. However, a player may remove loose impediments on the putting green by any means necessary without pressing anything down. The referee must have felt that Zach Johnson was removing loose impediments and not testing the surface of the putting green.
During a tournament last week I was told using an unmarked ball would result in a two stroke penalty. I know it is recommended that you place an identifying mark on your ball but is it required by the rules?
October 5th, 2010 at 10:51 amDave,
October 5th, 2010 at 11:16 amRule 6-5 recommends that a player puts an identification on his ball. It is not a requirement. A player may accidently play a wrong ball, under Rule 15-3, that results in a two stroke penalty.
I understand a player cannot carry a weighted training aid in his bag unless it is the 14th club; he must not use it to warm up between strokes or play.
Can a player carry “alignment” rods in his bag as long as he does not use them during a round?
Can a player carry a weighted club if he does not use it during the round along with 14 regular clubs???
October 5th, 2010 at 12:48 pmSteve,
October 5th, 2010 at 1:22 pmA player may carry a weighted training aid in his bag and it doesn’t count as one of his 14 clubs. As long as it is not a club. If it is a club (it has a club face) it would count in his 14 clubs and a player would be penalized if it was non-conforming (e.g., molded grip). Decision 14-3/10.3 says that a player may carry alignment rods, but may not use them during the round.
A player hits a poor shot that only moves a few feet and then strikes it again in anger. What is the correct procedure? Does he play it as it lies after being struck? Replace it with a one stroke penalty? Is there a penalty for swinging at your ball in anger after a poor shot if you miss it?
October 7th, 2010 at 11:49 amDave,
October 7th, 2010 at 3:55 pmWhen the player struck the ball in anger, it was not a stroke. The player would be penalized one stroke under Rule 18-2a and was required to replace the ball. There is no penalty for swinging at the ball in disgust and failing to move it. Also see Decision 18-2a/23.
Please define “near” in the context of Rule 7 (practice), “on of near the teeing ground.”
October 8th, 2010 at 11:15 pmCan stones be removed from bunkers that may cause personnal injury to the player if in the process of taking a stroke he or she is hit? I thing I looked at this rule change but now I can’t find it and I have been questioned about it.
Thanks
October 10th, 2010 at 10:18 amDDS
G. Kimura,
October 12th, 2010 at 6:09 pmThere is no clear definition of “near”. It is up to the Committee to decide what is reasonably near the teeing ground. I feel that it has to be an obvious violation before a penalty is incurred.
David,
October 12th, 2010 at 6:13 pmOnly by Local Rule may stones be removed from a bunker. See Appendix I. Otherwise, a player would be penalized under Rule 13-4 for moving a loose impediment from the bunker. As an additional option, the player may declare the ball unplayable and drop the ball under the options of Rule 28.
During a recent NCGA match play event, my opponent’s drive came to rest on a pile of grass clippings to the side of the fairway that we deemed to be too small for potential removal, i.e. if the pile was a collection large enough scheduled for removal, he would have been granted relief. We all agreed that the ball should be played as it lies. While searching for my own ball I turned around and noticed that my opponent had removed the grass clippings from all sides of his ball, improving his lie so that the ball now sat on a tee of grass clippings. I notified my opponent that while he was entitled to remove loose impediments behind his ball, that same entitlement did not apply to those clippings in front of the ball, unless he removed each blade of grass one at a time. He called the rules official at the clubhouse and my protest was over ruled.
October 12th, 2010 at 6:40 pmI’m not sure who was right and what the penalty would have been had the decision resulted in my favor.
Thank you.
Ian,
October 12th, 2010 at 9:24 pmRule 23 allows a player to remove loose impediments. The grass clippings around the ball are loose impediments and may be removed by any means necessary as long as the ball is not moved. Even though the player improved his lie of the ball by the removal of the loose impediments, there is no penalty.
ARE DIRT OR GRAVEL CART PATHS CONSIDERED AN IMMOVABLE OBSTRUCTION?
October 13th, 2010 at 5:01 pmAn eight foot section of a wooden fence that was the OB boundary fell onto the course and hadn’t been replaced yet by the course workers. Does the OB line remain as it was originally before the fence fell? Or does it now snake around the outline of the section of the fence lying on the course? And what if a ball should end up on the fence or tangled among the cross pieces? Any relief?
October 13th, 2010 at 7:49 pmKevin,
October 14th, 2010 at 12:54 pmThe definition of obstructions include artificially surfaced roads and paths. However, the Committee may declare a road or path as an integral part of the course.
Ed,
October 14th, 2010 at 12:56 pmThe Out of Bounds boundary line has not changed. The player would not be entitled to releif from the fence without penalty. See Decision 24/4.
I was playing golf at a course that had lateral hazard with OB next to it. a player hit second shot flew the hazard and landed OB.
October 15th, 2010 at 10:41 amPlayer claimed since crossed the hazard first his ball was deemed to be in the hazard. He found his ball on the practice tee clearly OB.
Is he correct?
Pat,
October 15th, 2010 at 9:02 pmThis ball is clearly out of bounds. The lateral water hazard margin ends at the out of bounds. The player was required to proceed under Rule 27-1 (stroke and distance). When he dropped and played his ball under the water hazard (Rule 26), he committed a serious breach of Rule 20-7 (wrong place) and was required to correct it prior to starting the play of the next hole or be subject to disqualification.
In a match play competition, both players are on the green. Player A is 15 feet away. Player B is 20 feet away, putts his ball and leaves the putt 3 feet short. He then says he will putt out and does so. Is player B putting out of turn when he putts out? If so, what is the penalty and how should you proceed?
Thanks.
October 18th, 2010 at 8:11 amJ.A.S.,
October 19th, 2010 at 9:11 amPlayer B did play out of turn. There is no penalty, however Play A may recall the stroke. See Rule 10-2
I need some further help with Dec.15/14 in which the player substitutes a ball for a ball in a bunker that he thought was his and was trying to proceed under Rule 28. He plays the wrongly substituted ball and must correct his error or be disqualified if it is a serious breach of playing from a wrong place. Is it correct to say that if it turns out that the original ball was found in the same bunker near where the other ball was found, the player would not have committed a serious breach and, therefore, the score with the substituted ball would count plus 3 penalty strokes? Or, what if it should turn out that the place where the first ball was dropped was a correct place under 28 b or c for where the original ball was found? Is there still a two stroke penalty for playing from a wrong place? I’m thinking since Rule 28 allows substitution, maybe the player actually didn’t really do anything wrong other than the 1 penalty stroke under Rule 28.
October 19th, 2010 at 9:33 amEd,
October 19th, 2010 at 11:10 amThe player proceeded under inapplicable Rule. Rule 28b or c was not an option with the substituted ball because the player is required to know where his original ball is prior to using these options. Rule 27-1 was the applicable Rule. When he dropped and played the substituted ball, the original ball was lost (see definition of lost ball). The only time that the player would be able to continue with the substituted ball is if it wasn’t a serious breach of Rule 20-7 (wrong place). Also see Decision 28/15 and Decision 20-7c/3.
Just one more question to wrap up my Dec. 15/14 situation: as the player was required to proceed under Rule 27, there is no opportunity to make use of the fact that he just happened to drop a ball that correctly followed Rule 28. Once the clock starts ticking under 27, that’s the only route to follow (to mix metaphors). Is that correct?
October 19th, 2010 at 11:37 amEd,
October 20th, 2010 at 8:51 amThat is correct. Rule 27 is the operating Rule and when he drops he is doing so under that Rule it just happens to be in a very wrong place.
Hi Ryan, Butch Larroche here from the Sharp Park Golf Club. I have a few rules questions for you.
Behind the third green of our course, Sharp Park, is a marked lateral hazard. The gardening staff has taken to storing a watering hose used for watering the green inside the red stakes and in the hazard. If a shot comes to rest in the hazard but the hose interferes with the stance and or swing does a player get relief from the hose in the hazard?
Also, what is the ruling on natural areas/environmental areas? If your ball is in the fairway, but you have to stand in the sensitive area ie inside the line of red stakes with green tops, do you get stance relief?
Thank you!!!
October 21st, 2010 at 10:33 amWe are about to play our club championship on Wednesday and Friday.Because we are mostly retired and play every day is it against the rules to play on the Thursday between rounds?
October 24th, 2010 at 12:11 pmAngela,
October 25th, 2010 at 9:22 amSince the competition is not contested on consecutive days, you may practice on the course on Thursday. See Rule 7.
At a junior stroke play even at our club player A hits her ball into the fairway. Player B also hits a good tee shot and her ball hits ball A and moves it a foot or so. Now the fun begins, as parents and spectators have no end of suggestions on what to do next: replace ball A, leave it where it is, replace it by dropping it, replace it by placing it. Finally, the player decides to use 3-3 and plays the original ball where it is now located after being moved by ball B. The player also places (not drops) a second ball under 3-3 at the spot where she thought ball A had been a rest before being moved by ball B. She says she wants the original ball to count. So, is it correct to say that neither ball was played by the rules, and, therefore, the original ball must be the ball to count, strokes taken plus 2 stroke penalty under 18-5?
October 25th, 2010 at 4:25 pmOn the left side of one of our fairways, the owner of the adjacent property has put down some 4by4′s along his property line which is also the boundary of the course. A portion of some of these posts are inside the boundary stake line by and inch or so. A tee ball came to rest in bounds and along side one of these posts which are sunk into the ground partially and are unmoveable. The post interfered with his swing. Our interpretation was that since a part of the post was inbounds, that made it an unmoveable obstruction and the player was entitled to relief. We based this on the rule that makes a ball that rests partially in bounds and partially out considered to be inbounds. If the posts are partially in bouncs and partially out, they should be considered in bounds. Are we correct?
October 26th, 2010 at 10:46 amDave,
October 26th, 2010 at 11:13 amWhen the ball was moved it was required to be replaced under Rule 18-5. If the players didn’t know the exact spot in which to replace the ball, then a spot should be estimated and the ball should be dropped under 20-3c. I think the second ball (the one not selected to count) should count without penalty if they knew from where the ball had moved. If they didn’t know the spot, then the original ball counts with a two-stroke penalty added to the player’s score for violation of 18-5.
Ron,
October 26th, 2010 at 11:20 amIf the 4×4 posts are not used to indicate the boundary line, then they should be defined as immovable obstructions. The player would be entitled to releif as prescribed in Rule 24-2.
Hi Ryan, Butch Larroche here from the Sharp Park Golf Club. I have a few rules questions for you.
Behind the third green of our course, Sharp Park, is a marked lateral hazard. The gardening staff has taken to storing a watering hose used for watering the green inside the red stakes and in the hazard. If a shot comes to rest in the hazard but the hose interferes with the stance and or swing does a player get relief from the hose in the hazard?
Also, what is the ruling on natural areas/environmental areas? If your ball is in the fairway, but you have to stand in the sensitive area ie inside the line of red stakes with green tops, do you get stance relief?
Thank you!!!
October 26th, 2010 at 1:43 pmButch,
The hose is a movable obstruction and you would be entitled to relief as prescribed in Rule 24-1.
If your stance is in an environmentally sensitive area, you must take relief so that you no longer have interference by the ESA. See Appendix I.
October 26th, 2010 at 1:56 pmA player taking relief from an immovable obstruction properly uses a club to measure the one club length dropping area. When dropping the ball he leaves the club on the ground. The dropped ball does not touch the club when dropped or after coming to rest; however, when the player lifts the club he moves his ball. Is that a penalty under 18-2? The definition of equipment only forgives small items such as a coin or tee when used in the marking process.
October 29th, 2010 at 9:11 amDave,
October 29th, 2010 at 9:18 amYes, the player would be penalized 1-stroke under Rule 18-2a and would be required to replace the ball.
A ball that is hit into a fairway that is saturated(do to over watering or rain)and balls almost always plug.If you can’t find the ball, is this always a lost ball or does this fall under abnormal ground conditions if everyone agrees it went in this area?
October 30th, 2010 at 4:26 pmThanks
Jim,
If it is casual water, Rule 25-1c applies and the playe and the spot where the ball last crossed the outermost limits of the abnormal ground condition must be determined and, for the purpose of applying this Rule, the ball is deemed to lie at this spot and the player must proceed as follows:
(i)Through the Green: If the ball last crossed the outermost limits of the abnormal ground condition at a spot through the green, the player may substitute another ball, without penalty, and take relief as prescribed in Rule 25-1b(i).
If it was not casual water, the ball is lost if it is not found within 5 minutes and Rule 27-1 applies.
November 1st, 2010 at 8:28 pmA player lies in the rough by green. He chooses to putt the ball using a mallet putter. In his stoke he does not hit it with the putter face, but contacts it with the bottom of the putter. Is this a violation of Rule 14-1?
November 2nd, 2010 at 8:22 amWith the back of his putter head a player attempts to clear away a loose clump of grass that is on his line of putt. He is not very coordinated so the clump of grass is moved only an inch or so and is still on his line of putt. He then a) intentionally steps on the clump of grass or b) accidentally steps on the loose clump. I assume a two stroke penalty in a); what about b)? He did press down a loose impediment on his line of putt but did so accidentally.
November 2nd, 2010 at 2:08 pmTom,
November 2nd, 2010 at 2:21 pmRule 14-1 states that the ball must be fairly struck with the head of the club, not the face. No penalty.
Dave,
November 2nd, 2010 at 2:43 pmThe player would be penalized two-stokes under Rule 16-1 whether or not he did so accidently or purposefully. A player is not allowed to press down loose impediments on his line of putt.
Player A is in a large greenside bunker. His partner B, being a nice guy, goes around the bunker to get a rake to toss to his partner. Before B gives the rake to his partner he a) rakes an area of footprints well away from the line of play of his partner and says nothing to his partner, b) after raking the footprints B suggests to his partner how to play the shot based maybe on what he may have learned by raking the bunker, c) and d) doing the two same things from a similar greenside bunker. Are there penalties assessed to A in any of these situations?
November 5th, 2010 at 3:15 pmDave,
In threesome, foursome, best-ball or four-ball play, where the context so admits, the word “player” includes his partner or partners.
When the player’s partner rakes the bunker, the player is disqualified from the hole in match play or is penalized two-strokes in stroke play under Rule 13-4.
November 6th, 2010 at 5:14 pmQuestion:..While taking a swing at the ball, on the down stroke, the ground under my right foot collapses about 4″..a gopher hole or run.
November 9th, 2010 at 7:29 am…and the club makes contact for a very poor shot…
Can the ball be replaced without penality and shot taken again…or
“just play on”…
Dave Exline
In a friendly game, Player A hits his ball from the fairway to 2 feet. Player B hits his ball from the fairway and knocks Player A’s ball 2″ from the hole, his own ball bouncing to 3 feet. Player A replaces his ball at 2 feet and both players made birdies. This started a conversation about “what if?” What if Player A’s ball was knocked into the hole. Would it be “holed out” and count as an Eagle, or would it be replaced at 2 feet and have to be putted out for a birdie? Also, in a tournament, what would be the penalty for not following the correct procedure?
Thanks.
November 10th, 2010 at 9:24 amDave,
November 11th, 2010 at 9:22 amThe stroke counts and the ball should be played as it lies.
J.A.S.,
November 11th, 2010 at 9:24 amSee Rule 18-5. Player A’s ball must be replaced. If it is not replaced the player would receive a two-stroke penalty in stroke play or loss of hole in match play under this rule.Player B’s ball must be played as it lies.
With respect to Rule 9-2, Can a player go up to check the status of their opponent’s ball if it seems the ball’s tee shot might be in a water hazard, lost or out of bounds.?
November 14th, 2010 at 5:30 amPlayer A chips his ball close to hole and goes up to mark his ball. Before he gets a chance to finish marking and lifting Player B chips up towards the hole such that Player A lifts his ball while another ball is in motion. Does A get a penalty under 22-1? Could B get a penalty for not allowing A to finish marking? If one or both of the players were unaware of what the other player was doing are any penalties waived?
November 14th, 2010 at 9:56 amScott,
November 15th, 2010 at 9:26 amYes, a player may determine the location of his opponent’s ball prior to making his next stroke. However, he must play without undue delay under Rule 6-7.
Dave,
November 15th, 2010 at 10:39 amIf no verbal communication has taken place prior to the lifting, player A could be penalized two-strokes for violation of Rule 22-1. The Committee would have to ask the player why he was marking and lifting it. If he says “because I thought that player B’s ball was going to strike it”, then the penalty would apply. If A tells B that he wishes to mark and lift his ball, and B fails to give him the opportunity, B would be disqualified under 3-4 or would lose the hole in match play based on decision 2/3.
Player A is about to chip to the green. Before Player A strikes the ball, Player B (who is closer to the hole) hits his shot. Player A hits his chip while Player B’s ball is in motion. B’s ball stops 3 feet from the hole. A’s ball hits B’s ball and stops 1 foot from the hole. Are there any penalties? Must Player A and/or Player B replay their strokes?
November 17th, 2010 at 5:27 pmMark,
Rule 19-5a applies to Player A’s ball. He would play the ball as it lies. Rule 18-5 applies to Player B’s ball. He would replace his ball to where it had come to rest. No penalty to either player.
I couldn’t tell by your description if the balls had collided while in motion. If so, both balls would be played as they lie, without penalty. Rule 19-5b.
November 18th, 2010 at 9:19 amA player drops from a boundary stake thinking he gets obstruction relief. Dec. 18-2a/3 tells us the player incurs a two stroke penalty. Let’s say when he dropped the ball he did so in an improper manner (just tosses it underhand, for example). Does the player incur an additional penalty or is the penalty maxed out at two strokes?
November 18th, 2010 at 10:36 amEd,
November 18th, 2010 at 4:41 pmDecision 18-2a/3 applies and the player would receive a total of two penalty strokes. Ultimately, the player has picked up his ball in play and failed to replace it.
When declaring a “provisional ball”, does the playing have to name the first ball and the second ball to the other players. Example, first ball Saxon 1, provisonal ball Saxon 2.
November 25th, 2010 at 8:00 amBob,
November 28th, 2010 at 9:35 amNo. The player does not have to announce the type or brand of the ball that he is playing. He just has to announce that he is playing a provisional ball. It is not a bad idea to identify the ball just in case it is hit into a similar area as the original.
A player carefully removes a small branch that is lying close to his ball, but he is not careful enough and his ball moves. Rule 18 tells us he must replace his ball with a one stroke penalty. Must he also replace the branch next to his ball? Or can he play the next shot free of the loose impediment?
November 28th, 2010 at 11:24 amEd,
November 29th, 2010 at 9:40 amThe player would not have to replace the loose impediment. See decision 23-1/8.
Ryan,
November 29th, 2010 at 11:30 amI had read 23-1/8 but was still unclear as it dealtl more with a player trying to circumvent the possible penalty by invoking a rule such as 12,15 or 22. Thanks for clarifying the 18 penalty situation as the last sentence of the decision leaves my question above unanswered.
Ed,
November 29th, 2010 at 11:38 amThe decision says that a player may not circumvent the penalty under 18-2 by moving the loose impediments while the ball is lifted under Rule 12, 15 or 22. If the player’s ball is moved during the removal of a loose impediment he is penalized under Rule 18-2a and the ball must be replaced. The loose impediment does not need to be replaced.
Hi,
November 29th, 2010 at 12:54 pmCan you clarify the rule about accidently moving your ball marker which incurred a one stroke penalty to Ian Poulter in Dubai recently. Does the penalty apply to you if the mark is moved by another player who mistakenly did not see it while walking on the green or by a putt from another player whose ball runs over the mark and causes it to flip over?
Thanks
Ian,
November 29th, 2010 at 2:22 pmIan Poulter was penalized one stroke for causing his ball marker to move under Rule 20-1. Since his actions were not directly attributable to the specific act of marking and lifting the ball mark. See decision 20-1/15.
If a fellow competitor accidentally moves a player’s ball marker, there is no penalty and the marker must be replaced. Rule 18-1 applies. If it is accidentally moved by an opponent (match play), the opponent is penalized one stroke under Rule 18-3. There is no penalty if the opponent presses down the ball marker (see Decision 20-1/6.5). If the ball marker is moved by a ball, there is no penalty and the marker must be replaced.
Can you provide an example from your experience that would help explain the apparent contradiction between Rule 6-1 “The player is responsible for knowing the rules” and 34-1.b.iii which forgives a player from disqualification for “failure to include a penalty that…he did not know he had incurred.” If a player is supposed to know the rules, why the free pass? So if a player honestly said, “Oh, I didn’t know those white stakes were the OB line” and he hadn’t included the penalty on the score for that hole, he would not be dq’d if the error were not discovered until after the competition had closed? That may not be a believable situation. Can you give a better and more reasonable example?
December 1st, 2010 at 3:18 pmOur local course at times with watering or rains will have the water hazards overfilled with water. The hazard line is not marked unless it is a tournament but the normal water line is easy to see. If your ball is touching the water where the normally would not be water is the ball deemed to be in the water hazard or can you play using casual water?
December 1st, 2010 at 9:08 pmI have a question concerning loose impediments in a bunker.Our bunkers now are full of large leaves and many a time your ball is under the leaves and cannot be seen.We have been removing the leaves to find the ball but then we are not covering the ball back up again.Is this a rule violatin and if so can we adapt a local rule to cover this?Our grounds crew have not cleaned up the traps in over two weeks.
December 2nd, 2010 at 7:24 amTim,
December 2nd, 2010 at 9:05 amDecision 25/3 says that the overflow from a water hazard is casual water. However, if the course is not using stakes and lines to define the water hazard, then the water line should be used as the boundary of the water hazard. It is up to the Committee to correctly mark the margins of the water hazards.
Angela,
December 2nd, 2010 at 9:18 amDecision 33-8/31 allows a Committee to adopt a local rule for an accumulation of leaves “through the green” only. So you would not be permitted to adopt a local rule for the leaves in the bunker. Rule 12-1 applies. The players are required to recover the ball with the leaves so that just a portion is visible. Failure to follow this procedure is a two stroke penalty in stroke play or loss of hole in match play. Also see Decision 13-4/33.
Drew,
December 2nd, 2010 at 10:26 amTough question. Let’s say that in the Dustin Johnson situation at the PGA Championship we didn’t discover, until after the competition closed, that he had grounded his club in the bunker. When asked about it he says “I don’t think I did ground my club, or I didn’t know my ball was in a bunker”. Since the competition has closed, the results may not be changed. However, Rule 34 does allow a Committee to change the results when the player knew there was a violation. Dustin says he grounded his club in the area and knew it was a penalty, but didn’t report it. In this case, Rule 34-1b (iii) requires that he be disqualified. He knew he had returned a score that was too low since he didn’t include the penalty he will be disqualified. He cheated. The Rules of Golf do not contemplate a player lying. The Rules of Golf are based on the premise that players are honorable. When you think about it, it would be impossible to write rules based on anything else.
I was playing the 9th hole of a local golf course, that is a dogleg right with a lake running all the way down the right side. It is a blind tee shot. I hit my first tee shot more right than I wanted, so I hit a second tee shot. First question is shoud I have declared that I was going to play a provisional ball. Being a blind tee shot, I had know way of knowing if the ball was in fact in the water. I hit a second tee shot and upon walking up the right side of the fairway, I found both balls [both with my marks on them]. One ball was about 15yards ahead of the other. So not seeing them land because of the blind tee shot, I hit the ball that was farthest away from the flag. What is the rule? Thanks.w
December 2nd, 2010 at 4:13 pmChet,
December 2nd, 2010 at 4:33 pmIf you were not sure whether your ball was lost in the water hazard you were permitted to play a provisional ball under Rule 27-2.(also see decision 26-1/1 for definition of virtually certain). Since you did not announce the playing of the second ball as a provisional ball it became the ball in play under Rule 27-1. When you reached the two balls and could not differentiate between the two, you must choose one of the balls and it will be the ball in play (see Decision 27/11).
Regarding Chet’s question/answer above. Dec. 27/11 deals with an original ball and a provisional ball. In Chet’s case there was no provisional ball as the second ball he played became the ball in play and the first ball had no more status. So, it may be a cruel lesson in properly marking the ball, but it is certainly arguable that both balls are lost unless, in the spirit of the Christmas holidays, you and the ruling bodies agree that in this scenario, as in 27/11, “it would be inequitable to require the player to return to the tee playing 5….”
December 3rd, 2010 at 2:35 pmIf you do not finish a hole what score are you required to post for that hole for handicap purposes? I have heard you are required to post one over par or in other words, you post a NET par. Please advise the correct way to handle this fairly common situation especially if you are a hack like me.
December 3rd, 2010 at 7:06 pmFrank,
December 6th, 2010 at 10:41 amYou are required to post the score you most likely would have made. If a hole is not played or not played under the Rules of Golf, then you would post par plus any handicap stroke you were entitled to. See Section 4 and 5 of the Handicap Manual.
A group in a tournament is having a very hard time as the players are slow anyway and are also spending time searching for wayward shots. Eventually the slow group waves through the following group, maybe more than one. Is such an action a breach of Rule 6-3b (or any other rule) in an NCGA/USGA event? What about a local club event with no formal pace of play policy? And, if there is a penalty, who all gets penalized?
December 8th, 2010 at 2:07 pmEd,
December 8th, 2010 at 3:16 pmThere is no penalty for allowing a group to play through. See the etiquette section of the Rules of Golf (page 2). Penalties for breach Rule 6-7 may be imposed if it is determined that player’s are unduly delaying play.
Hello there,
I was wondering if it is okay to wear a heart rate monitor while playing in a golf tournament?
Thanks!
December 10th, 2010 at 12:58 pmJoe,
December 10th, 2010 at 4:14 pmException to Rule 14-3 states that a player may use a device for a medical condition and the Committee is satisfied that it’s use does not give the player any undue advantage over other players. If the player is wearing it for any other reason, he would be disqualified under Rule 14-3.
Some 25 years ago, I seemed to have read this in a NCGA magazine regarding “abandon ball”.
Today it seems as I have breached the Rules.
Take this senerio. I have hit my tee shot some 30 yards short on the third hole at Spyglass Hill in the iceplant. Before looking for ball and leaving the tee, I declared to my competitor, I am abandoning my shot and I am re-teeing. Having hit my shot next to the hole, I tap in for a four.
Now, have I played correctly ?
Also, can I abandon a ball anytime throught the course or is it only limited to the teeing ground ?
December 12th, 2010 at 8:18 amRobbie,
December 13th, 2010 at 10:09 amWhen you played your next shot from the tee without announcing it as a provisional, it became the ball in play and your original ball was lost. A player may not declare a ball lost. See definition of lost ball. A player always has the right to abandon his ball and return to where he last played under penalty of one stroke under Rule 27-1. Also see Rule 20-5.
A nervous golfer playing St. Andrews for the first time swings and misses for his first stroke. Trying to regroup he accidentally knocks his ball off the tee, for a one stroke penalty (11-3/1). He re-tees and somehow, again, accidentally knocks his ball off the tee. Is it correct to say that this time he can re-tee without penalty as after lifting the ball to re-tee, the ball was not in play?
December 14th, 2010 at 2:50 pmEd,
December 14th, 2010 at 3:09 pmGreat question. You have successfully Stumped the Rules Wizards! Your question was so good that we had to go all the way to the source. Let me explain. My initial response was that it was a single penalty under Rule 18-2, but my colleagues convinced me that it was two separate penalties under Rule 18-2 and Decision 1-4/12 Principle 3 did not apply. Not fully convinced, I called my friends at the USGA. They too, were in disagreement. They took the question to the person that was responsible for writing Decision 1-4/12 (Lew Blakey). He confirmed that Principle 3 does apply and that it is a single one stroke penalty under 18-2. The act of picking up the ball and putting it back on the tee does not break up the act. It is considered one single act resulting in one penalty stroke applied. The player would be playing his third stroke from the tee.
I would like to continue the discussion about the ball in play at St. Andrews, and bring in the question from Robbie playing the third hole at Spyglass. If Robbie, playing under 27-1 after his first shot had disappeared into the ice plant, had accidentally knocked his ball off the tee would there have been a penalty under 18-2? Was his second ball in play when he put it on the tee? 11-3/3 tells us “There is no penalty.” The St. Andrews player was also proceeding under 27-1 when he re-teed, and, therefore, I suggest, the second 18-2 penalty would not be applied “because a teed ball is not in play until a stroke has been made at it” (11-3/3). It’s Christmas and he has been looking forward to this round at St. Andrews his whole life. He needs all the help he can get.
December 15th, 2010 at 10:48 amDan,
December 15th, 2010 at 12:19 pmWhen the player at Spyglass returned to the tee he was proceeding under stroke and distance and his ball was not in play. However, when the player at St. Andrews whiffed, his ball was in play. When he then bumped it off the tee he was required to replace it under 18-2 and not 27-1 as stated in decision 11-3/1. When the player bumped the ball off the tee a second time it was considered a violation of the same penalty multiple times and a sing penalty applies. See Principle 3 of Decision 1-4/12. Also see above.
At the beginning of a competitive strokeplay round, one of the competitors hands his scorecard to his caddie. The caddie then marks the scorecard for the entire round and then at the end of the round hands the scorecard to the player, who then signs the card and returns the card. Is the scorecard acceptable?
December 15th, 2010 at 3:13 pmNeil,
December 15th, 2010 at 3:35 pmA marker is assigned by the Committee and the marker is responsible for recording the scores and the marker is responsible for his caddie. The marker must sign the card (not the caddie) and hand it to the player to return to the Committee at the conclusion of the round. If there is and discrepancies to the card it should be verified with the marker because it was his responsibility to record them and it is up to the player to make sure he is returning an accurate card. See definition of marker and Rule 6-6.
I’m a 14 year old boy and I was playing in a junior tournament in northern California and I hit a ball of the tee on a par 3 and my ball across the water and the ball crossed the water and it hit a golf cart and bounced back into the water. I was able to drop the ball across the water by where my ball hit the cart. I dropped on the other side of the cart path closer to the because I had no other spot to drop it. I talked to the rules official that was there he had me the dropped ball and I hit a provisional of the tee. He had me play both balls. I ended up getting a 5 on the hole.
Was what they had me do the right thing or should i of not gotten a penalty stoke. Also when I hit my tee shot I couldn’t see the cart because of plants hanging over the water.
hope u can answer it for me,
Sean H
December 18th, 2010 at 7:45 pmSean,
December 20th, 2010 at 9:13 amWhen your ball hit the cart is was a rub of the green (see definition of rub of the green) and Rule 19-1 applies. You are required to play the ball where it came to rest. Since this spot was at a place that was in a water hazard you must proceed under the water hazard rule (Rule 26). Using the spot where it last crossed the margin of the hazard as the reference point for taking relief under penalty of one stroke.
In a tournament, my son hit a ball over the 18th green at Spanish Bay into a hazard behind the green marked with red stakes with green tips. His competitors and a NCGA rules official present agreed to a “virtual certainty” that the ball was in the hazard, although he was not allowed to enter the hazard to search for it. My son wanted to drop the ball at the point the ball entered the hazard (within 2 club lengths, no closer to the pin), as this gave him a short chip to the pin. The rules official advised him that this was NOT an option, because the line of the hazard had a concave curvature relative to the pin, and a drop 2 club lengths away would be closer to the hole. He advised that the ONLY 2 options were to re-take the shot from the original position (175 yards aways from deep rough), or go to the other side of the hazard (also not a good option). However, with a red staked lateral hazard, can’t you drop the ball at the EXACT spot where it enterd the hazard, since this is by definition no closer to the pin? Thanks.
December 27th, 2010 at 10:12 amJim,
Decision 26-1/18 states that It is usually possible to drop a ball on the near side of a lateral water hazard and conform with Rule 26-1c(i) by dropping the ball close to the hazard margin. Where this is impossible, the player must proceed under one of the other options provided in Rule 26-1.
If the tournament official felt that there was not a place that your son could drop the ball and not be closer to the hole, then the only options given were correct. It is recommended that a dropping zone be added as an additional option when these circumstances occur.
December 27th, 2010 at 11:22 amA player hits his tee shot into a water hazard and drops properly and hits the next shot into a bunker (he knows he’s a terrible bunker player) near the green. He takes a quick peek to see if he can spot his original ball and actually finds it outside the water hazard. Now if he plays that newly found ball, I believe he has played a wrong ball (?). But what if he should declare his original ball unplayable, drops it within two club lengths and plays the ball onto the green close to the hole. Now, I think, he has played a wrongly substituted ball, but I’m not sure of how the penalty strokes would be applied and how many. Can you help me count?
December 29th, 2010 at 11:39 amEd,
December 29th, 2010 at 3:07 pmWhen the player dropped and played after taking relief from the water hazard, that ball was the ball in play and the original ball is lost. You are correct, when he plays the original ball it is a wrong ball and he must abandon it and proceed with the ball he hit into the bunker with a two-stroke penalty under Rule 15-3. If he were to start the play of the next hole without fixing the error, he would be disqualified. If he declares the original ball unplayable, he would be dropping and playing from a wrong place and would be subject to disqualification under Rule 20-7 if it is not a serious breach under that Rule, the player would add a total of three penalty strokes to his score (one-stroke under Rule 28 and two-strokes under 20-7). The player is allowed to substitute under rule 28 so it is not a “wrongly substituted ball”, just one played from a wrong place. Since the only option that would allow him to drop outside the bunker would be 28a (Stroke and Distance), a serious breach of playing from a wrong place occurred if the location where the ball was dropped was nearer the hole than where he played from after dropping from the hazard. If a serious breach has not occurred, the original ball would be the ball in play and he would lie 7 on the putting green (three actual strokes and four penalty strokes – 1 under Rule 26, 1 under Rule 28 and 2 under Rule 20-7).
Hi Ryan,
December 30th, 2010 at 11:54 amI would like to cautiously suggest that in Ed’s water hazard/unplayable ball scenario that, by analogy, Decisions 18-2a/8.5 and 28/15 are applicable. We may get to the same answer as to the penalty strokes, but my suggested ruling does not use Rule 28 even though the player may have thought he was doing so. The key is that “the player was required to play the ball as it lay” (from 18-2a/8.5 and Rule 13) and the ball that needed to be played as it lay is the ball in the bunker. Though the player may have thought he was declaring his found ball unplayable under Rule 28, he was actually violating Rule 13 and 18 as he can’t apply Rule 28 to what was once his original ball because it is no longer in play. It has no more status than an abandoned ball or stray ball as supported by Dec. 28/15 which tells us “procedures 28b and c may not applied except with reference to the …ball in play.” Further, as 18-2a/8.5 tells us, “when he dropped the other ball, he was substituting a ball and that ball became the ball in play. If the location of the original ball was known (he knew it was in the bunker) at the time the substituted ball was dropped (for the “unplayable” ball) the substitution was not permitted…..” Finally, I see 3 penalty strokes: 1 under R. 26 and 2 under 18-2a/8.5. Is my train of thought on track or are you going to derail it?
Dan,
December 30th, 2010 at 3:19 pmUltimately, we are operating under Decision 34-3/6. We must determine what the player was doing and apply the applicable penalties. He was operating under Rule 28 when he declared the ball unplayable, which he is allowed to do. He receives a one stroke penalty under Rule 28. He is proceeding under Rule 28a. When he drops and plays, he is playing from a wrong place under Rule 20-7. With the one stroke penalty under 26, he has a total of 4 penalty strokes. The principles of Decision 18-2a/8.5 apply, but since he declared his ball unplayable under Rule 28, that penalty must also be added to his score.
My question is: When I went to address my ball on the green with my putter, I inadvertently hit the ball causing it to oscillate but not role or move from its’ original position. Is this a penalty or the fact that the ball did not move or role there would be no penalty?
Thank you,
January 2nd, 2011 at 5:12 pmPeter Mazzetti
9212580
Peter,
January 3rd, 2011 at 9:13 amRule 18-2 allows a player touch his ball with the club while in the act of addressing it, without penalty.
Whilst playing in a match, my opponent after teeing off played a provisional ball as we weren’t sure where his original came to rest. After searching for the original for no more than a minute my opponent says ‘forget it, I’ll play the provisional’ and declared the first ball lost. However the the first ball was spotted straight after this(in play)but opponent carried on with provisional ball. What is the ruling as the search period hadn’t taken 5 mins…should the original ball have been played??
January 3rd, 2011 at 11:19 amCarol,
January 3rd, 2011 at 11:28 amThere are three actions that make a ball lost. See definition of lost ball. A player may not declare a ball lost and proceed with the provisional. When the player made a stroke at the provisional ball after the original was found it was a wrong ball and loss of hole in match play. Also see Decision 27-2c/2.
Playing winter rules (lift clean and place). Makes course much easier but courses are so muddy have to do it. My questions should the scores be posted? If so it will make my handicap 4 o5 strokes lower than I can shoot in summer when play the ball as it lies
If we are to post should we add 3 or 4 strokes to the posting for the round being much easier with bumping the ball?
Thanks for your help
January 5th, 2011 at 12:51 pmPlayer A plays a ball from the fairway toward a lateral water hazard. Player A finds a ball in a burrowing animal hole. He identifies the ball as his ball wilst it is still in the hole. He calls his opponent over to show him the situation. When the opponient arrives, the ball has disappeard from sight. Player a reaches into the hole with arm then his golf club. The ball is gone. The opponent looks in the lateral water hazard near the hole and finds Player A’s ball in the water below a burrowing animal hole created in the side of the bank of the water hazard. Player A assumes the hole is “J” shaped and the ball has rolled down the hole into the water after he identified it. How to proceed?
January 5th, 2011 at 5:55 pmBarry,
January 6th, 2011 at 9:10 amThe ball was still in play and gravity is not an outside agency, so the player must play the ball where it came to rest or use his options available to him under Rule 26-1.
Jim Pulliam, thank you for your comment. The Handicap System is proactive when it comes to posting scores played under Preferred Lies. That is, the System says the scores shall be posted unless conditions are so poor as to warrant nonposting (and posted to the normal ratings). Only a club can determine whether to suspend all postings . . . an individual cannot make such a determination. The key point is whether the course is playing to its ratings during the winter or not. In the instance that you described the course is no doubt playing longer than normal due to lost roll. If this offsets the improved lies that bumping the ball provides, posting should continue. Thanks again – Jim Cowan, Director of Course Rating and Handicapping
January 6th, 2011 at 9:20 ami was playing a round and i always thought that you caould only mark a ball on the putting surface. the people i was playing with marked the ball off the green. is that correct?
January 9th, 2011 at 8:01 pmSean,
January 10th, 2011 at 9:08 amYou may mark and lift your ball in several instances in the Rules of Golf. Some examples include the following:
Rule 5-3: Marking and lifting to determine if the ball is unfit for play.
Rule 12-2: Marking and lifting for identification.
Rule 22: Marking and lifting because the ball is either assisting or interfering with the play of another player.
Preferred Lies Local Rule: Marking and lifting and replacing within a specified distance because course conditions warrant such procedure.
What defines a bunker as complete GUR with no penalty for dropping outside the bunker without penalty. Is it a committee statement reclassifying the bunker “through the green”; or will a white line around the bunker suffice? Our club is in the process of renovating bunkers.
January 10th, 2011 at 5:40 pmPJ,
January 11th, 2011 at 5:20 pmThe Committee would define the bunker as Ground Under Repair by Local Rule or by painting a white line around the bunker. Decision 25/13 states that the entire bunker is through the green and Rule 25-1b(i) applies, unless otherwise specified by the Committee.
Please help clarify Dec. 20-1/0.7 in regards to lifting a ball to see if it is embedded. Here are three situations with what I think are correct (?) penalties: 1) Player lifts ball without announcing, ball is embedded, drops ball properly (no penalty), 2) Lifts without announcing, ball not embedded, replaces properly without announcing (one stroke penalty), 3) no announcement, lifts ball, ball not embedded, announces, replaces properly (no penalty). If these are correct, and maybe they’re not, the player really does not have to announce if the ball ends up being embedded (“…there is no penalty provided he takes relief under the applicable Rule…”) However, there is a penalty if there is no announcement and either the ball is not embedded or the player decides not to take relief. In other words the player to protect himself should always announce, but sometimes he can get away without announcing. Correct?
January 12th, 2011 at 9:18 amI know that if I’m finding the nearest point of relief from a cart path, I need to use the club and swing (which is generally a full swing) that I would have used if the cart path were not there. My question is based on Dec. 20-2c/0.7 which has a player taking relief from a protective fence. From the description it seems his shot is a punch shot, not a full swing, of some sort with a 4 iron. Now when he takes relief and proceeds to find his npr, should he do so with the same punch shot swing? How much leeway does he get?
January 12th, 2011 at 12:25 pmEd,
January 12th, 2011 at 4:09 pmYou are correct. Rule 25-2 does not require a player to announce to his fellow-competitor or opponent prior to proceeding. However, if a player is lifting the ball to determine whether the ball is embedded and it is not, the player must announce, and give the fellow-competitor or opponent an opportunity to witness the marking and lifting. Yes, it is always a good idea to inform your marker or opponent when lifting your ball.
Dave,
January 12th, 2011 at 4:36 pmIn Decision 20-2c/0.7 the player has not fulfilled the requirement of complete relief from the obstruction with the club and swing that he intended to use for his situation. If the ball would have met the requirement, he would then be allowed to play in any direction with any club he chooses as described in Decision 20-2c/0.8.
On the green,in the act of addressing the ball, before the club was grounded, the club hits and moves the ball unintentionaly. The ball was returned to the original spot. Should there be a penalty?
January 15th, 2011 at 5:30 pmA golfer hit his drive well left of the fairway and the ball came to rest next to a fence. Being that the golfer could not hit the ball right handed he took a left handed stance and turned a 5 iron backwards; upon taking his stance his back foot was in a gopher hole. He took a drop from the gopher hole and after doing this was able to have a right handed stance and proceeded to hit his shot right handed from where he dropped. I was just wondering if this is the correct play or was there a rule infraction
January 16th, 2011 at 8:24 pmA player was taking a penalty drop from a water hazard. The place where he was dropping the ball was next to a cart path and when he dropped the ball the ball hit the path and bounced high in the air and for no known reason the player caught the ball in his hand. Not knowing what to do next, he just dropped again and as the ball ended up in an ok spot by the rules he played on. Does he get a two stroke penalty for catching the bouncing ball just as a caddie would earn for his player if he stopped a ball that was rolling towards a hazard because he wanted to save the ball from disappearing into the pond. Or, does the caught ball count as a non drop? Or could 20-6 save the player from penalty in any way?
January 16th, 2011 at 10:14 pmI have played with some golfers who on the putting green put the head of their putter next to their ball as if it is a marker, lift, clean and line the ball up for their putt. I was told along time ago that you may only use a FLAT ROUND marker. If this is true. Is it a one stroke penalty ??
January 17th, 2011 at 10:56 amJuan,
January 18th, 2011 at 8:58 amThe player would be penalized one stroke under Rule 18-2a for causing his ball to move.
Smith,
January 18th, 2011 at 9:08 amThe player has proceeded correctly. The player need only determine his relief from the gopher hole with a left handed stroke with the 5-iron. Once the drop has been made for the situation he may choose to play with any stroke and direction. Also see Decision 24-2b/6.
Rick,
January 18th, 2011 at 9:16 amThe player would be penalized two strokes under Rule 1-2 for exerting influence on the ball. See the last paragraph of Decision 20-2c/4.
Greg,
January 18th, 2011 at 9:41 amThe provision in the Note to Rule 20-1 is a recommendation of best practice, but there is no penalty for failing to act in accordance with the Note. Decision 20-1/16 outlines clearly what is considered an acceptable form for marking the ball on the putting green and it includes using the putter head.
Playing in a 2 man scramble We opted to play the ball out of a fairway bunker. My partner sticks a tee in the sand, plays his ball. I bend over to pick up his tee before I hit, grounding my club like a crutch as my back was sore. Being the format where I could rake the bunker and place my ball, I thought grounding my club would be irrelevant without penalty.
January 18th, 2011 at 2:17 pmGreg,
January 19th, 2011 at 9:43 amThe Rules of Golf do not apply to a scramble format. It is up to the Committee to decide the Rules/Conditions of Competition pertaining to the event. The only direction I could give you to avoid penalty in your situation is Rule 13-4 Exception 1 – that states a player may ground their club to prevent from falling.
My friends golf ball plugged into side of a steep hill on a green. There was no way to place the ball as close as possible to the original spot on the green without the ball rolling at least 10 yards backwards. He eventually repaired the ball mark, but only just enough so he could place the ball back onto the original spot without the ball rolling backwards farther back on the green. What is the rule when there is no way that the ball will stay in the original spot on the green even after placing the ball there?
January 20th, 2011 at 7:14 pmSteve,
January 21st, 2011 at 9:03 amRule 20-2d states that the ball must be placed at the nearest spot where it can be placed at rest this is not nearer the hole and not in a hazard. In you case, the player may have to place the ball off the green. However, the player had proceeded correctly by his actions. If there is a blemish in the green that will hold the ball in place, it may be used.
A player is in the fairway, lines up his shot and then uses his club to make a mark a foot or so in front of his ball. I don’t think this is legal, but don”t know the rule it is breaking.
January 30th, 2011 at 7:34 amOn a par 4 a player hits their tee shot in the rough, but after looking in the proximity the group saw it head and come to rest the group is unable to find the ball. Does the player have to head back to the tee and re-tee (hitting three from the tee) or can they drop where everyone saw the ball go (hitting three from the spot they drop)?
January 30th, 2011 at 10:53 pmIs asking or receiving information about how a putt may break while on the green a rule violation and subject to a penalty? I think it is allowed (similar to distance) but my playing partner argued that it is a penalty (similar to asking what club you hit).
January 31st, 2011 at 9:09 amPaul,
January 31st, 2011 at 10:44 amThe player is violating Rule 8-2a. “Any mark placed by the player or with his knowledge to indicate the line must be removed before the stroke is made.” Penalty for breach of this Rule is loss of hole in match play or two strokes in stroke play.
David,
January 31st, 2011 at 10:51 amIf the ball is not found within the 5 minute search period allowed, the ball is lost and the player must return to where he had last played from with a one stroke penalty. See definition of lost ball, Rule 27-1 and Rule 20-5.
Dave,
January 31st, 2011 at 10:57 amAsking how a putt breaks is a violation of Rule 8-1b. Advice is any counsel or suggestion that could influence a player in determining his play….. Penalty for breach of this Rule is loss of hole in match play or two strokes in stroke play.
Do I have the option of identifying my ball with its in any hazzard? Is So what is the procedure? Also, if I hit a wrong ball out of the hazzard am I assessed penalty strokes? Thanks.
February 1st, 2011 at 5:32 amCJ,
February 1st, 2011 at 9:21 amYes, you have the right to identify you ball in a hazard. The procedure is out lined in Rule 12-2 – If a player has reason to believe a ball at rest is his and it is necessary to lift the ball in order to identify it, he may lift the ball, without penalty, in order to do so.
Before lifting the ball, the player must announce his intention to his opponent in match play or his marker or a fellow-competitor in stroke play and mark the position of the ball. He may then lift the ball and identify it, provided that he gives his opponent, marker or fellow-competitor an opportunity to observe the lifting and replacement. The ball must not be cleaned beyond the extent necessary for identification when lifted under Rule 12-2.
If the ball is the player’s ball and he fails to comply with all or any part of this procedure, or he lifts his ball in order to identify it when not necessary to do so, he incurs a penalty of one stroke.
If the lifted ball is the player’s ball, he must replace it. If he fails to do so, he incurs the general penalty for a breach of Rule 12-2,but there is no additional penalty under this Rule. It is a two-stroke penalty in stroke play and loss of hole in match play for playing a wrong ball out of a hazard. In stroke play, you must correct the error. See Rule 15-3.
When taking relief from an obstruction, may a player take relief left handed than play his shot right handed. If this is permitted can you please direct to to the rule and the decision.
Thank you
February 3rd, 2011 at 6:53 pmHello:
February 4th, 2011 at 8:33 amI recently read an article in a golf publication about a rule/strategy
that can be use during a 2-man best ball.
Players A & B are partners and players C & D are partners. Player A has holed out with a par for his team. Player C & D are both on the green along the same line. Player C is putting for birdie and player D is outside of player C and putting for bogey. The putt is conceded to player D so that he cannot show the line to player C. But if player D puts it anyway, then player C is disqualified from the hole.
My questions is, is there any differentiation if your are in a 2-man
best ball tournament vs a 4 players playing 2-man best ball? Thank you
for your help.
Phillip,
February 4th, 2011 at 11:09 amRule 24 has a restriction that a player can not use an unnecessarily abnormal stance, swing or direction of play when determining if relief is allowed.
But, Decision 24-2b/17 says that if a right-handed player must play a stroke left-handed due to some other object preventing the right-handed stroke, he would determine his nearest point of relief using the left-handed stance. Then after dropping, if he was able to play the stroke right-handed he could do so. It further states that if he then had interference with the right-handed stroke, it would be a new situation and he could take further relief.
Armando,
February 4th, 2011 at 11:28 amThe prohibition against the player putting after his putt has been conceded only applies in match play. A tournament where four players are playing and counting two balls is a stroke play tournament so there is no such prohibition.
If you are on the fringe of the green and you want to putt to the hole, but there is sand and dirt on the fringe between you and the hole. Can you brush away the sand and dirt? I can’t seem to find the rule about that.
February 4th, 2011 at 4:04 pmLucille,
February 4th, 2011 at 4:25 pmSand and loose soil are loose impediments on the green only. See definition of loose impediments. Rule 13-2 states that a player may not remove or press down sand, loose soil…. Violation for this action is a two-stroke penalty in stroke play or loss of hole in match play.
If my ball is lying inside a bunker, on top of a dead squirrel, can I remove the squirrel or do I have to play the ball as it lies?
Also, if my ball is on the putting green, and there is a live fly on my putting line, is it a loose impediment and therefore I can remove it or do I have to play the ball with the fly there?
Thank you.
February 6th, 2011 at 2:14 pmMarta,
February 7th, 2011 at 9:54 amThe dead squirrel is a loose impediment by definition and Rule 13-4 states that a loose impediment may not be touched when your ball lies in a hazard, including bunkers. A fly is a loose impediment by definition and may be moved when your ball lies on the putting green. See Rule 16-1 and definition of loose impediments.
Thank you, Ryan.
What if the squirrel is alive?
February 7th, 2011 at 10:13 amMarta,
February 7th, 2011 at 12:53 pmIf the squirrel is alive, then it is an animate outside agency and Rule 19-1 applies. The ball must be dropped as near as possible to the spot directly under the place where the ball came to rest in or on the outside agency, but not nearer the hole.
A ball lies on wooden steps leading up to a teeing area. In determining the half circle for dropping under Rule 24 how should the player measure with regards to the slope of the side of the tee box? For example, if the ball is on the top step and it is to the player’s advantage to drop down towards the bottom of the steps is the measurement done parallel to the level ground so that the club is “hanging” in space, or is the measurement done along the ground. The difference may only be a few inches, but which is correct?
February 7th, 2011 at 1:17 pmRick,
February 7th, 2011 at 2:27 pmThe measuring would be along the ground. See analogous decision 28/12.
Hi guys
I have a question for you. Player A is on the green and Player B is off the green. Before Player B makes a stroke, he requests that Player A mark his ball but Player A refuses nor does he play first. Player B makes his stroke and hits Player A’s ball. What is the ruling in Stroke Play and Match Play?
February 8th, 2011 at 12:02 pmGary,
February 8th, 2011 at 3:28 pmPlayer A is disqualified in stroke play for refusing to comply with a Rule affecting the rights of another competitor (Rule 3-4). It is a loss of hole penalty in match play (Decision 2/3).
In four-ball competition Player B of team A-B discovers he has an extra club just before he tees off on the second hole. However, his partner has already started the hole. Is team A-B penalized 2 strokes each or 4 strokes each?
February 10th, 2011 at 10:20 amRick,
February 10th, 2011 at 2:29 pmThe team would add two penalty strokes to the first and second holes. Four strokes total. If you look at the definition of Partner it says that where the context so admits, the word “player” includes his partner. The violation of 4-4 by either player applies to his partner (Rule 30-3d & 31-6). The side has considered starting play of the next hole as soon as the player has played a stroke on that hole.
Hi again,
February 11th, 2011 at 9:25 amPlease, a bit of further clarification: even though the player with the extra club had not teed off on the second hole, both he and his partner add two strokes to each of their scores on hole one and hole two. Correct?
Rick,
February 11th, 2011 at 9:48 amYes, That is correct. Since the side had started play of the second hole the penalty applies to both.
Player A had an over-hill, over-dale chip shot to play to the hole. His partner (or another player) had marked his ball somewhat on the line that A had to chip. A asked the player who had marked his ball to remark with a tee so that he could see it better and help him with his chip. Under Rule 22 is such a request a penalty? If the other player indeed did mark his ball with a tee to help A is there a penalty? and who gets the penalty? And would the penalties be different in match vs. stroke play?
February 12th, 2011 at 4:21 pmEd,
February 14th, 2011 at 10:57 amRule 8-2 states that “Any mark placed by the player (includes partner) or with the players knowledge to indicate the line must be removed before the stroke is made”. If the player plays a stroke with the tee placed in position it is a loss of hole in match play and two strokes in stroke play to the player making the stroke.
Myself and 3 others recently had a day out paying green fees to play another course. One of the four returned an exceptional card (stableford points)- does this card need to be returned to his Home Club for handicap adjustment?
February 17th, 2011 at 4:03 amIs there ever any circumstances in golf where you could get a drop nearer to the hole?
February 17th, 2011 at 7:46 amCarol, thank you for your comment. It depends on where the round of golf was played. If it was played locally, the score certainly must be posted to your handicap record because, for the most part, we post scores year-round here in No Cal (you must post home and away scores). If the round was played up north in Washington or Oregon, the score cannot be posted because those states do not allow posting during most of the winter. As to a scorecard itself, a club can request but not require the return of scorecards before posting takes place. The main point is to get the score posted. Thanks again – Jim Cowan, Director, Course Rating and Handicapping
February 17th, 2011 at 11:13 amA player marks the ball on the green and passes the ball to the caddie. Later, the caddie places the ball at the marker and positions and aligns it fot the player. The caddie then removes the amrker and hands it to the player followed by the player putting the ball.
What procedure would be allowed to prevent this from being a violation of Rule 20-3??
February 17th, 2011 at 11:15 amJim,
Thanks for your reply, we are based in South Wales, UK and played a course local to us. Isn’t it unfair to return one players good card when 3 others played the same round….albeit badly!!!
February 17th, 2011 at 2:07 pmWayne,
February 17th, 2011 at 4:04 pmThe only times that I can think that a player would be allowed to drop closer to the hole would be when he is proceeding under stroke and distance and dropping in a drop zone that may be closer to the hole than where the ball lay.
Bill,
February 17th, 2011 at 4:11 pmThere are only three people that can replace the ball. The player, partner or person that moved it. In your example, the caddie may not replace it without the player being penalized one stroke under Rule 20-3a. Also see Decision 20-4/2.
In the phrase “or it’s equivilent” mean? Also what does the word “could” mean?
An amateur golfer must not play golf for prize money or its equivalent in a match, competition or exhibition if they do they could lose their amateur status.
February 18th, 2011 at 9:19 amA stake which defines the margin of a water hazard has been removed. A player’s ball comes to rest in the hole in which the stake had previously been placed. What is the ruling?
Is it also the same ruling of it was a white stake defining ‘out of bounds’?
February 18th, 2011 at 9:21 amAn amateur golfer must not play golf for prize money or its equivalent in a match, competition or exhibit.
What does the phrase “or it’s equivalent mean?”
Thanks, Joan Sarringhaus
February 18th, 2011 at 9:33 amJoan,
February 18th, 2011 at 1:56 pm“or its equivalent” means something like a gift certificate or card that could be spent in anywhere such as an American Express Gift Card. Gift certificates that can be spent in one store such as the pro shop or Macy’s would be ok.
Carol,
The hole that is left when a water hazard stake is removed is a hole made by a groundskeeper and is therefore ground under repair (Decision 25/18). But, unless there is a line marking the boundary of the hazard and the stake hole is completely outside that line, the player does not get relief as there is no relief for a ball which is ground under repair in a water hazard.
In the case of the OB stake, since Out of Bounds is defined by the inside edge of the stake at ground level, the hole is out of bounds and there is no relief from a hole which is out of bounds.
February 18th, 2011 at 2:02 pmPlease help me with Dec. 34-1b/5. The question deals with a committee error discovered before the competition closed. Would A have been retroactively declared the winner if the addition error by the committee had been discovered after the competition closed? To me this committee error seems to be the same as in 34-1b/6 that was correctable even after the competition was closed.
February 19th, 2011 at 5:25 pmDave,
February 21st, 2011 at 9:58 amThe Committee may not rescind the penalty of disqualification after the competition has closed. The Committee would not be permitted to rescind the penalty in 34-1b/5 after the competition had closed. In Decision 34-1b/6, there is no time limit for correcting such an error. Rule 34-1b is not applicable since it deals with penalties and not Committee errors.
I’m sure your reading of the Rules is correct; however, not correcting an addition error which is the committee’s responsibility (33-5) sure seems the same as not posting a player’s score which was correctable in 34-1b/6. If the situation of 34-1b/5 occurred at an NCGA qualifying event and the scoring official told a player he was dq’d wouldn’t that error be fixed?
February 21st, 2011 at 1:58 pmDave,
February 21st, 2011 at 2:48 pmIf the Committee incorrectly disqualified a player during a competition, for any reason. Once the competition had closed, they would not be able to rescind the penalty. Even in an NCGA qualifying event.
If there was an addition error, the Committee could make the change after the competition had closed. See Decision 33-5/2. In Decision 34-1b/5 it is a penalty that may not be corrected after the competition has closed. It has nothing to do with an addition error.
If your ball comes to rest on a sprinkler head protruding onto the green, is the ball deemed to be on the green?
February 21st, 2011 at 8:39 pmJohn,
February 22nd, 2011 at 9:02 amIf your ball is on the side of the sprinkler head that is on a portion of the green, then yes, it is considered on the green and Rule 24-2b (iii) applies.
In the two questions/answers with Dave regarding Dec. 34-1b/5, I’ve gotten confused as it says that the hole by hole scores were correct and the total was wrong and the committee was in error so it sure seems like an adding error, but you say “It has nothing to do with an addition error.” So, I guess, I still don’t understand why such an error isn’t correctable after the competition is closed like the committee error of the following decision.
February 23rd, 2011 at 10:19 amKaren,
February 23rd, 2011 at 10:40 amThe difference is that the Committee imposed a penalty of disqualification to the player in Dec. 34-1b/5. Once the competition has closed they may not rescind the penalty of disqualification. Even though, the Committee wrongly disqualified the player, it may not be corrected after the competition closes. If they did not disqualify the player and later discover that there was a mathematical error, they would be justified in correcting it after the competition had closed.
My tee shot landed off of the fairway on a gravely hill sloping towards the green. The ball came to rest against a stick about 2″ in diameter. The stick is a movable obstruction but I cannot move it without the ball rolling down the hill. So I gently placed two small pebbles to stabalize the ball and removed the stick without moving the ball. Kosher?
Thanks,
February 26th, 2011 at 4:09 pmBob
Robert,
I believe the stick was a loose impediment and not a movable obstruction. In either case, when you placed the pebbles next to the ball you were penalized two strokes in stroke play or loss of hole in match play for exerting influence on your ball under Rule 1-2.
February 28th, 2011 at 10:01 amA player hits his ball into one of those tall, skinny juniper trees that are sometimes used as 150 yard markers. Everyone in the group is virtually certain that the ball is indeed in the tree. If the tree is staked does the player get Rule 24 relief? And what if, similarly, a ball were hit into a mature tree with overhanging branches that was staked but the local rules said the player only gets relief from the stake.
March 1st, 2011 at 2:40 pmIs a banana skin or an apple core in a bunker classed as a loose impediment?
March 2nd, 2011 at 1:44 amRick,
March 2nd, 2011 at 9:53 amIf the Committee has deemed the 150 yard tree as an immovable obstruction then the player would be entitled to relief, without penalty as prescribed in Rule 24-3. If a ball is lost in a staked tree and the Committee has not adopted the Local Rule for protection of young trees the ball is lost and Rule 27-1 applies.
Carol,
March 2nd, 2011 at 9:54 amBanana skins and apple cores are loose impediments. See Decisions 23/3 and 23/4 and definition of loose impediments.
A player hits a ball into a large area of casual water (virtually certain). When he gets to the area he finds a ball and drops it under 25-1b. When he finally holes out, he discovers that the ball he had dropped was not his which means he should have used 25-1c. If the dropping area turned out to be the same for both the original ball and the stray ball, is there a penalty?
March 6th, 2011 at 11:21 amRick,
March 7th, 2011 at 12:18 pmThe player does get lucky. Since Rule 25-1c allows substitution and he dropped in a place permitted for that Rule.
I hit a ball in to a bunker and surprisingly found the ball in a fluffy lie caused by a burrowing animal, probably a squirrel, that had recently dug a hole in the side wall of the bunker. Both the cast and the runway were solid sand. Do I still get Rule 25 relief?
March 9th, 2011 at 4:04 pmDave,
March 9th, 2011 at 5:33 pmIf the remains are identifiable as remains from a burrowing animal, then you would be entitled to relief as prescribed in Rule 25-1b (ii). Also see Decision 25/23.
In a stroke play event, is there a penalty if a fellow-competitor picks up another person’s ball through the green? Decision 20-1/2 (or /4, don’t have the Decisions book on me) says no penalty if it happens on the green and must be replaced, but I couldn’t find if the same happens through the green.
March 9th, 2011 at 10:20 pmScott,
March 10th, 2011 at 10:58 amRule 18-4 applies. There is no penalty to the player or fellow-competitor and the ball must be replaced.
In our last round someone tending the flag accidentally stopped a putt with his foot. He was not paying close attention and the ball stroke his foot and stopped close to the hole. What is the ruling?
March 10th, 2011 at 11:09 amDave,
March 10th, 2011 at 11:18 amIf the player making the stroke had authorized the attendance, the player would be penalized two strokes in stroke play and loss of hole in match play under Rule 17-3. If the player did not authorize the attendance, Rule 17-2 applies and the person attending the flagstick would be penalized.
has it always been legal to have someone tend the flagstick even if you are not on the green. Phil Mickelson had his caddy do this for his final shot at torrey pines this year. i thought this had always been legal but someone else said that the rule changed a few years ago
please advise
thank you
March 14th, 2011 at 9:34 amMark,
From 1899, the rule for stroke play was:
When a competitor’s ball is within 20 yards of the hole, the competitor shall not play until the flag has been removed, under penalty of one stroke.
I suppose that didn’t mean that the person who removed it couldn’t stand by the hole but you could say it meant it couldn’t be attended.
In 1908 the rule was modified to mention that the ball can not strike the flag or the person standing by the hole with a two-stroke penalty for doing so. So, from then on it was definitely allowed.
March 14th, 2011 at 7:41 pmWhat makes a golf course a “championship” course vs a non-championship course. Are there objective criteria or is it all marketing?
March 15th, 2011 at 9:59 amBob,
March 16th, 2011 at 9:53 am“Championship” courses have no official definitions, but usually a course will be referred to as such when it has multiple sets of tee boxes to choose from such as Whites, Blues, Blacks and even further…Championship Tees. Basically when a course calls itself a championship course, it is saying that it is a tough test of golf, with serious holes. For instance, the par 3s are in the 180 yd. range and longer. You won’t generally find too many 125 yd. par threes in other words. Same goes for the par 4s…they will generally be quite long. In essence, what they are saying is that this course has or could host a championship of some kind.
In stroke play, may a player purposely miss a putt so that his next putt is beyond and on the same line as his partner, therefore showing him the line and speed?
March 17th, 2011 at 3:17 pmIn match play, if a putt is conceded is it allowable to putt anyway if it might benefit your partner.
March 17th, 2011 at 4:14 pmRon,
Decision 30-3f/6 specifically prohibits a player from playing away from the hole to assist his partner.
In stroke play, the player should incur a penalty of two strokes and, under Rule 31-8, the partner should incur the same penalty.
March 18th, 2011 at 8:01 amMatt,
March 18th, 2011 at 8:06 amDecision 2-4/6 states if the act would be of assistance to his partner in in a four ball or best ball match the partner is disqualified for the hole.
Ryan,
This situation seems to come up in many tournaments.
Player A hits a tee ball that may be lost or may be OB. Player A declares: “I better hit another one, just in case. ”
Player B says: “Make sure you declare it”.
Player A re-tees and says: “this ball has two blue dots” and hits it.
1) Did Player B give advice?
2) Did Player A just hit his third shot because he failed to say: “Provisional Ball”?
How strict do we need to be when the intention is clear?
March 22nd, 2011 at 12:00 pmBob,
March 22nd, 2011 at 3:31 pm1. No, Player did not give advice. See definition of advice.
2. Yes. The word provisional should be used by the player. However, if the opponent or fellow-competitor asks if it is a provisional and the player says yes. I would consider that a proper announcement of a provisional ball.
Practice during multi-day stroke play event.
One rule says that a player may practice putting after the hole has been completed. Another rule states that a player shall not practice on the course prior to competition.
During a multiple-day stroke play tournament is putting practice allowed or not?
Some players have told me that practice putting is allowed ONLY on the last day of the event.
March 22nd, 2011 at 3:52 pmBob,
Rule 7-1(Prior to the round)
Stroke Play
Before a round or play-off on any day of a stroke-play competition, a competitor must not practice on the competition course or test the surface of any putting green on the course by rolling a ball or roughening or scraping the surface.
When two or more rounds of a stroke-play competition are to be played over consecutive days, a competitor must not practice between those rounds on any competition course remaining to be played, or test the surface of any putting green on such course by rolling a ball or roughening or scraping the surface.
Exception:
Practice putting or chipping on or near the first teeing ground before starting a round or play-off is permitted.
Rule 7-2 (During the round) allows a player to practice putt or chip on or near the putting green of the last hole played and also practice putt and chip on or near the next teeing ground.
March 22nd, 2011 at 4:23 pmI was watching the LPGA tournament on March 27th,and on a par 3 hole N.Y.Choi hit her tee shot into a lateral hazard. The telecast showed her choosing to retee. The announcers commented that she could not use the drop zone because the d.z. was closer to the hole than where her tee shot crossed the hazzard. Nearly everyone I have played with, myself included, has thought that if a drop zone exists, it always is an option. Apparently not! We have a hole on my home course where the drop zone is on the most forward tee box, well up the lateral hazard. From the men’s tees it is quite possible to enter the hazard well before the drop zone. Please clarify. Thanks.
March 27th, 2011 at 5:10 pmLaryy,
March 27th, 2011 at 7:09 pmThe Committee may provide dropping zones as an additional option for players when taking relief. It is normal practice to provide the dropping zone in an area where the player will not gain a significant advantage when using the dropping zone. I am sure the Committee had outlined in the Local Rules that the ball had to cross the hazard at a specific spot or closer to the hole than where Ms. Choi’s ball did. In cases where more than one drop zone is being used the Committee will establish marks on the course to direct the player to which drop zone they should use or even state that they may use the drop zone that is not closer to the hole.
I was recently trying to hit a punch shot between some trees back into the fairway from the woods. I missed my opening and hit a large tree trunk straight on and the ball came bouncing back toward me.
I watched for about 5 seconds and came to the realization that my ball was going to hit my bag which was right next to me (it eventually did and I took a penalty). Is there anything in the rules that prevents me from moving my bag out of the way while my ball is in motion if I see its about to get hit? I got it in my head at some point that its illegal, but after this happened I went to look it up and was unable to find a rule.
March 28th, 2011 at 10:19 amHello:
I coach high school golf and this question came up during one of our matches.
A ball on the putting green lies directly on the intended line of another player. The player requests the ball and mark to be moved. Normally the procedure would be to mark the ball and then use the putter head to move the mark off the intended line. The actual procedure used by the player was to place the toe of the putter next to the ball and then place a mark at the heel of the putter (the ball was then lifted). When is was his turn to putt, the player placed the putter head back down and moved the mark back to the original position of the ball at the toe of the putter. He then replaced the ball at its original position.
Is this procedure OK, or is this a penalty? I consulted the Decisions (2004-05) and could not find a definitive answer.
This situation did not affect the outcome of our match, but it would be nice to know the correct ruling.
Thanks.
March 28th, 2011 at 8:40 pmMichael,
March 29th, 2011 at 9:06 amRule 24-1 states that a player may remove equipment when a ball is in motion, without penalty.
Chris,
March 29th, 2011 at 9:16 amThe procedure to “span” the ball under the Note to 20-1 is just a recommendation. Whatever procedure a player uses to move the ball or ball marker out of the way of another player must ensure that they get the ball back to it’s original position. I would recommend that the player should have used the same sequence to put the back (ball, putter, marker —marker, putter, ball). If the Committee is satisfied the player got the ball back in its original location there would be no penalty. If the Committee is not satisfied that the player returned the ball to its original location, the player would be penalized two strokes in stroke play or loss of hole in match play for playing from a wrong place.
What is the ruling on the use of cell phones that have a golf GPS application during a tournament?
April 1st, 2011 at 7:21 amNCGA’S CLARIFICATION ON SMART PHONE APPLICATIONS
April 1st, 2011 at 8:09 amThe USGA and R&A has issued a joint statement regarding the use of electronic devices. Decision 14-3/0.5 states that any device used for distance measuring may not contain any other functions that are prohibited (e.g., gradient, wind speed, temperature). The joint statement states that multi-functional devices such as mobile phones may not be used as a distance measuring device if the device contains any prohibited features.
Many phones have built-in applications that are difficult, if not impossible to delete. For example, the iPhone 3GS ships with a compass application pre-installed. A compass is one of the devices that may not be used on a golf course (Decision 14-3/4). It is not possible to remove the compass application from the iPhone 3GS. Therefore, it is prohibited to use it as an Electronic Distance Measuring Device under the Rules of Golf. The penalty for using a prohibited device is disqualification.
The iPhone 3G does not have the Compass application or any other prohibited applications pre-installed. As long as the user has not installed a prohibited application, the iPhone 3G may be used as an Electronic Distance Measuring Device.
Before using any electronic distance measuring device during a competition, the player should ensure that it conforms to the Rules. Any doubt of conformity will be resolved against the player.
For years are Club has stated that the Maximum playing Handicap is 33 for all events on our course. We have several older players you have seen their Handicap increase to 33+ .
Is their a NCGA Max handicap for players, playing in local tournaments.
April 2nd, 2011 at 5:52 amI just made a putter that has the shaft connecting to the head at a 90 degree angle and there are no additional bends to the shaft. I use the putter “side saddle” facing the hole. Is this putter illegal?
April 4th, 2011 at 7:19 amRoger Hoff – thank you for your comment. The maximum official Handicap Index for men is 36.4, for women is 40.4. Of course, these Handicap Index will adjust to higher Course Handicaps on tees with Slope Ratings above 113. It is up to your club entirely to decide what max Course Handicap you will allow for your own events. Many clubs allow the USGA maximum values, some allow higher “Local” handicaps. Your’s is one of the first I have heard that caps it at a lower figure. Thanks again – Jim Cowan, Director of Course Rating and Handicapping
April 4th, 2011 at 8:41 amPat,
April 4th, 2011 at 9:42 amIt is difficult to make a ruling on a club without seeing it in person. I recommend contacting the USGA with regards to any equipment questions, as they are the governing body of equipment standards. Please send them a picture of the putter in question. They can be reached at rules@usga.org
The tee markers at our course are log shaped and about a foot long. They are held in the ground by a spike. The markers are intended to be horizontal with the line of play, that is pointing down the fairway. If such a marker had twisted sideways such that is was pointing towards the other marker and a player repointed it in the usual direction (without lifting it out of the ground) before hitting his tee shot is there a penalty under Rule 1, specifically Dec. 11-2/2(b) which mentions “aimed in the wrong direction?”
April 5th, 2011 at 6:07 pmDave,
April 6th, 2011 at 7:49 amPer Decision 11-2/2, there would be no penalty if the player were to move the tee marker as you described. However, it is best to get the Committee involved in correcting any tee marker that has been misplaced.
During the end of a close match yesterday my opponents approach shot struck a temporary plastic mesh fence between a lake and the green and bounced back into the water hazard (yellow stakes). The fence appeared to be in place to protect the green from erosion during an earlier winter storm event. Not knowing the rule, he rehit from the fairway and parred the hole. He played a second ball from in front of the hazard with a one stroke penalty and bogeyed the hole. We asked in the clubhouse if there was a local rule regarding the temporary fence and they did not know. What is the rule? Par or bogey?
April 6th, 2011 at 9:12 amDave,
April 6th, 2011 at 1:51 pmThe fence was an outside agency and the ball should have been played as it lay. Since it was not playable in the water hazard he should have taken relief from the water hazard as prescribed in Rule 26. It sounds like he did take relief from the hazard as prescribed and that is the ball that would count. If the hazard was yellow, he was required to drop behind the hazard (not in front). If he played the ball from in front, as described, he would be playing from a wrong place and would lose the hole (Rule 20-7).
Can you please clarify a discussion between our members. Can you use the back of any golf club, not just the putter, to strike your ball? Also if this is allowed, what year did the ruling change?
April 17th, 2011 at 11:12 amOne of our foursome hit his drive in the direction of a water hazard which laterally extended across the front of the teeing area. High reeds in the water prevented anyone from seeing the ball land on the other side of the hazard. The player declared a provisional to avoid returning to the tee box if it did go in the hazard. The ball was clear of the hazard and playable. A member of the foursome stated that the provisional was the ball in play and that he was now laying three at the spot of the provisional stating that it was an inappropriate use of a provisional. For speed of play I thought that a provisional is appropriate anytime it appears you may have to return to the original spot to replay a shot. What is the correct ruling??EGOB
April 17th, 2011 at 1:18 pmCarol,
April 18th, 2011 at 7:45 amYes, you may use the back of a club to strike the ball. Rule 14 states that a player must strike the ball with the head of the club. I am not sure when the rule changed.
Rick,
April 18th, 2011 at 7:49 amA provisional ball may be played if the ball may be lost outside a water hazard or out of bounds (see definition of provisional ball). Since the player was playing a provisional ball for a ball lost in a water hazard it was actually the ball in play under stroke and distance.
Can a flag stick be tended when putting or chipping from the fringe (or therefore any other position on the course, with the exception of maybe a hazard)? Thanks.
April 18th, 2011 at 9:31 amDerrick,
April 18th, 2011 at 10:20 amRule 17-1 states that “before making a stroke from anywhere on the course, the player may have the flagstick attended, removed or held up to indicate the position of the hole.”
At our last tournament, a golfer hit his tee shot and the group saw it roll just off the fairway into the second cut. Another group was seen in the area before they arrived where the ball should have been. The tee shot was no where to be found. But another ball with the same identifying marks (but different brand) was found instead. Does this need to be played as a lost ball eventhough it was very likely the other group played the ball by mistake?
April 18th, 2011 at 10:45 amRick,
April 18th, 2011 at 11:07 amIf the player has knowledge or is virtually certain that the ball had been played by another player, Rule 18-1 applies. He should place a ball on the spot from which his ball was played. If the lie was altered Rule 20-3b applies or if the spot is not determinable Rule 20-3c applies. Also see Decision 27/6
ball is in the bunker…before hitting the bunker shot the player reaches with a club (sand wedge) and picks up a rake laying in the bunker. Has the player grounded his club in the bunker? If so what’s the penalty?
April 19th, 2011 at 4:34 pmLloyd,
April 20th, 2011 at 7:33 amException #1 to Rule 13-4 states “Provided nothing is done that constitutes testing the condition of the hazard or improves the lie of the ball, there is no penalty if the player (a) touches the ground or loose impediments in any hazard or water in a water hazard as a result of or to prevent falling, in removing an obstruction….. No penalty.
If both team members of a four-ball game are in the same bunker and the player nearer the hole plays first and does not get his ball out of the bunker can he rake where he had just played from even if that spot is on the line of play of his partner? One of the Rule 13 decisions says if a player plays out of the bunker he can rake “without restriction.” That phrase is not used in the decision that deals with the ball still in the bunker. The player may rake if the original spot was not on his line of next play, but, again, what about his partner?
April 20th, 2011 at 8:58 amDave,
April 20th, 2011 at 9:45 amThe player may restore the bunker, without penalty, provided nothing is done to breach Rule 13-2 with respect to his next stroke(exception #2 under Rule 13-4). The raking of the bunker is restoring the lie that his partner had when his ball came to rest in the bunker. No penalty to either player. Also see Decision 13-4/19.
You are taking practice swings for a chip shot around the green. You accidently during a practice swing hit the ball and it moves 1 foot. You had no intent on hitting the ball nor did you address the ball. Is there a penalty?
April 22nd, 2011 at 10:15 amWe have someone in our men’s club that insists that you are not allowed to ask another player in your group if they want your ball marked because that is giving them information on the line of the putt.He states that you have to wait until the player playing the shot asks to have the ball mark.Is this correct?
April 24th, 2011 at 7:38 amMike,
April 25th, 2011 at 8:46 amYes, There is a penalty of one stroke under Rule 18-2a for causing your ball to move. The ball must be replaced.
Wayne,
April 25th, 2011 at 8:51 amThe Note to Rule 20-1 states that if a ball marker interferes with play, stance, or stroke of another player, it should be plaved one or more club-lengths to one side. Wether the player does it on his own or makes a request, there is no penalty. He would not be considered giving advice under Rule 8-1.
Can you get free relief if you want to putt from 10ft off the green and a sprinkler head off just off the green is in your line?
April 25th, 2011 at 9:19 amCarol,
No. You are not entitled to relief on your line of play from an immovable obstruction (Rule 24-2). However, there is a Local Rule in Appendix I in the Rules of Golf that a Committee may adopt to allow players relief for intervention on the line of play for immovable obstructins near putting greens.
Immovable Obstructions Close to Putting Green
Rule 24-2 provides relief, without penalty, from interference by an immovable obstruction, but also provides that, except on the putting green, intervention on the line of play is not, of itself, interference under this Rule.
However, on some courses, the aprons of the putting greens are so closely mown that players may wish to putt from just off the green. In such conditions, immovable obstructions on the apron may interfere with the proper playing of the game and the introduction of the following Local Rule providing additional relief, without penalty, from intervention by an immovable obstruction would be warranted:
“Relief from interference by an immovable obstruction may be taken under Rule 24-2. In addition, if a ball lies off the putting green but not in a hazard and an immovable obstruction on or within two club-lengths of the putting green and within two club-lengths of the ball intervenes on the line of play between the ball and the hole, the player may take relief as follows:
The ball must be lifted and dropped at the nearest point to where the ball lay that (a) is not nearer the hole, (b) avoids intervention and (c) is not in a hazard or on a putting green. The ball may be cleaned when lifted.
Relief under this Local Rule is also available if the player’s ball lies on the putting green and an immovable obstruction within two club-lengths of the putting green intervenes on his line of putt. The player may take relief as follows:
The ball must be lifted and placed at the nearest point to where the ball lay that (a) is not nearer the hole, (b) avoids intervention and (c) is not in a hazard. The ball may be cleaned when lifted.
Without the Local Rule, the player is required to play the ball as it lies.
April 25th, 2011 at 11:57 amThis may be an easy one, but it caused some confusion at our local club. A player, while on the green, addresses an unmarked ball. Before attempting to hole the putt, the player grounds the putter behind the ball and the ball rolls out of place. Is there a penalty and/or what would be possible options under the rules? I believe since the player was deemed to have caused the ball to move, while the ball is in play, the player needs to replace the ball to its original position, incurring a one stroke penalty, and proceed. Thanks and your response will be greatly appreciated. Jim
April 26th, 2011 at 10:56 amJames,
April 26th, 2011 at 3:44 pmRule 18-2b states that if a player causes the ball to move, after address, it must be replaced with a one-stroke penalty. If the player fails to replace the ball it is a two stroke penalty. See the penalty statement under Rule 18.
The rules of golf are generally confusing to me, at least the ones beyond water hazards and out of bounds, but a recent rules article “Stump…” in the Spring issue of the NCGA magazine has moved the rules from simply confusing to the mysterious and occult. Specifically, why was Player B disqualified In the “Rights of the Competitor” question/answer when it was Player A who was refusing to mark his ball. Or, hopefully, did the letters just get turned around and it’s just a typo?
April 26th, 2011 at 3:57 pmBob,
April 26th, 2011 at 4:12 pmSorry for the confusion. It was a typo. Player A would be disqualified under Rule 3-4. Not Player B.
Hi,
April 29th, 2011 at 7:55 amI know there is no penalty for playing out of turn in stroke play, but what would happen at an NCGA tourney if, in a four-ball event, the two teams decided for one team to tee off first on the front nine and the other on the back nine? Or in single play, the players agree to play ready golf at each tee? Is there a breach of Rule 1-3 in either case?
Dave,
April 29th, 2011 at 8:45 amIn either case there would be no penalty. In stroke play, players may play out of turn as long as they are not doing so to give anyone an advantage. See Rule 10-2c.
Can lead tape be legally used on golf clubs to adjust the swing weight?
April 29th, 2011 at 7:54 pmAt a recent high school tourney at which I was helping, the following situation occurred. A player hit his tee shot towards OB, then played a provisional. When he went to find his tee shots, he couldn’t find either one so, confused, he just dropped another ball in the vicinity of the general area where his first two shots had ended up and played out the hole. Before he teed off on the next hole, a coach/official who had been called told him he needed to go back to the tee and correctly put a ball in play. I know he took five more shots after dropping the ball when he couldn’t find his first two tee shots, but, I think, he was told that he was hitting seven off the tee when he went back. Is that correct? What about the shots he took after he dropped the ball? Please help me count.
April 30th, 2011 at 8:16 pmStump the Rules Wizard – Volume 31, Number 2 Spring 2011–Rights as a Competitor.
So I am just off the green and you are on the green at a spot that is in my direct line to the flag. I ask you to mark your ball and you say NO. I chip onto the green and hit your ball and I a am disqualified.Whow!!! Where can I read more about this? Maybe my problem is that I play with great guys (and gals) who willing mark their balls anytime someone asks – if not before.
Thanks for you help.
John Hubbard, The Villages, San Jose,CA
May 1st, 2011 at 5:53 pmRon,
May 2nd, 2011 at 8:15 amLead tape may be applied to a club prior to a stipulated round. See Decision 4-1/4.
John,
May 2nd, 2011 at 8:17 amSorry for the confusion. It was a typo. Player A would be disqualified under Rule 3-4. Not Player B.
What is the proper way to continue play when a player has hit the ball twice on a single swing? Should the ball be placed where the last shot was taken, or played where it now lies?
May 4th, 2011 at 3:56 pmI know that if an ‘air shot’ is taken on the 4th tee because the player used a tee that was too high for him, he cannot then re-tee with a smaller tee as he would be playing the ball from a wrong place and would incur a penalty stroke.
Does this penalty apply to the 1st tee as well…….or is the ball not deemed to be in play yet?
May 5th, 2011 at 2:42 amRay,
May 5th, 2011 at 8:08 amRule 14-4 states that the stroke counts and the player must add a penalty stroke. The ball is played from where it came to rest.
Carol,
May 5th, 2011 at 8:13 amOnce a stroke is made at the ball it is in play. See definition of ball in play. If a player re-tees the ball he is considered to be playing under stroke and distance and incurs a penalty stroke. See Decision 18-2a/1.
As I reached the top of my backswing a fairly large twig that had been blown off a nearby oak tree struck my ball causing it to move over an inch. This twig was large enough that if it had hit me on the head it would of hurt. I was 20 yards away from the base of the tree and not even remotely close to hitting it in my back swing.
May 6th, 2011 at 11:22 amWhat’s the rule?
Jim,
May 6th, 2011 at 1:40 pmIf your ball moves after being addressed, you are deemed to have moved it and you would incur a one stroke penalty. If you continue the stroke the ball does not need to be replaced. If the stroke is stopped, the ball must be replaced. See Rule 18-2b.
A players ball lies in the rough. The player, before addressing the ball, is tapping down the grass behind the golf ball with his club. The golf ball oscillates back & forth and the player states the ball merely osccilates back to its original position and there is no penalty. The player is clearly improving his lie……what’s the ruling here???
May 6th, 2011 at 5:45 pmIt is my understanding that a ball can be declared unplayable at any point on the golf course and that the player may take a one stroke penalty and either drop his ball within 2 club lengths or retreat on the line formed by the hole and his ball, dropping the ball on that line or return to the point at which he hit his original shot. The confusion comes when the unplayable ball lies in a bunker. I have been told by rules officials that the unplayable ball must be dropped in the bunker and may not be dropped on the line formed by the ball and the hole. I have not been able to confirm this. Can you provide a reference for this ruling?
May 6th, 2011 at 6:00 pmBall lands on right side of sprinkler well in fairway. What is the proper way to determine where to drop the ball.
May 6th, 2011 at 8:07 pmOn a putting green in match play, Player believes his partner has halved a hole, so he places his ball where he marked it, leaves ball mark on green behind his ball and putts. Is there a penalty for leave mark on green surface?
May 6th, 2011 at 10:22 pmBill,
May 7th, 2011 at 9:51 amIt does sound like the ball has not moved by definition of moved in the Rules of Golf. However, the player is improving his lie and is in violation of Rule 13-2 and should be penalized two strokes in stroke play and loss of hole in match play.
Lee,
May 7th, 2011 at 9:55 amSee Rule 28. A player has three options when he has declared his ball unplayable:
a. Play a ball as nearly as possible at the spot from which the original ball was last played (see Rule 20-5); or
b. Drop a ball behind the point where the ball lay, keeping that point directly between the hole and the spot on which the ball is dropped, with no limit to how far behind that point the ball may be dropped; or
c. Drop a ball within two club-lengths of the spot where the ball lay, but not nearer the hole.
If the unplayable ball is in a bunker, the player may proceed under Clause a, b or c. or c. If he elects to proceed under Clause b or c, a ball must be dropped in the bunker.
When proceeding under this Rule, the player may lift and clean his ball or substitute a ball.
Joe,
May 7th, 2011 at 10:07 amThere is no penalty for leaving the ball marker behind the ball when putting. Under Ruler 20-4, the ball is in play as soon as the ball is replaced. The ball marker is there to allow the player to put his hands on the ball. However, if the player is leaving it there for the purpose of alignment he would be penalized two strokes in stroke play or loss of hole in match play under Rule 8-2
A & B are playing C & D in 4-ball stroke play. A hits his ball to the green from the right side of the fairway. Dur to the countour of the green, neither A or B (who is standing near A) can see where A’s ball comes to rest on the green. C hits his ball from the left side of the fairway and notices that his ball moves A’s ball. Assuming that A was aware that his ball had been moved said nothing until after A putted his ball. C then claims that A had incurred a penalty under 18-5 for not replacing his ball. Is there a penalty involved? What is the proper procedure to follow before going to the next tee?
May 7th, 2011 at 2:24 pmIf you are playing winter rules, and are allowed to lift, clean and place the ball, or are allowed a bump on your lie, are you allowed to change grasses, even if playing “through the green?”
May 7th, 2011 at 9:20 pmBert,
May 9th, 2011 at 7:58 amPlayer A is not penalized for playing from a wrong place. He would continue the play of the hole with the ball played from it’s new location. See Decision 18-1/3.
Al,
May 9th, 2011 at 8:06 amThe Rules of Golf do not permit a Committee to adopt a local rule for preferred lies through the green. The Local Rule for Preferred Lies is for “closely mown areas through the green”. Closely mown areas means any area of the course, including paths through the rough, cut to fairway height or less. Bumping the ball on your lie is not part of this local rule. See Appendix I(4c).
Recently I was playing in a Zone tournament at Poppy Hills and the other member of my team tee shot on #10 came to rest on the cart path. Fortunately there was a marshall there to assist us in the proper relief procedure. So I thought. My partners ball was on the left side of the path. The marshall insstructed him to drop on the side of the hill just left of the path. He then said my partner would not get a club length after he determined his nearest point of relief as that would put him back on the cart path. If my partner was left handed he would be allowed the club length as that would have taken him away from the path. I was a bit confused, we played on and that has stuck with me since. I’m still not convinced that was the right decision, but I don’t claim to be a rules expert either.
May 10th, 2011 at 12:51 pmMatt,
May 10th, 2011 at 1:36 pmIt doesn’t seem that the procedure was followed correctly. Rule 24-2b permits a player to drop within a club-length of the nearest point of relief. In some cases, the entire one club-length may not be available as it may be nearer the hole, in a hazard, on a putting green, etc. I am having a hard time understanding how the cart path would still interfere with the player’s stance, lie of ball or area of intended swing. Perhaps the nearest point of relief was not determined accurately.
Two issues came up recently during a stroke play event at our club.
While on the green, Player A marked his ball with a tee. His competitor, Player B, offered to replace the tee with a marker of his own. Player A told Player B not to replace it, that he would get a marker from his bag and replace the tee. On the way back with his marker, Player A saw Player B pick up the tee and replace it with a marker of his own. Did Player B violate any rule in this instance?
On a subsequent hole, while on the green, Player A marked his own ball with a marker from his pocket. He noticed that the marker was not his and proceeded to replace the marker with one of his own. The new marker was larger than the replaced marker, so Player A carefully alligned the front of the new marker with the marker to be replaced and slid the new marker into place while removing the old marker. Did Player A violate any rule in this instance?
May 10th, 2011 at 3:31 pmNeal,
In the first situation, there is no penalty to either player. Player B is an outside agency. Either he or the player must replace the ball marker(or another one in its place). See decision 20-1/9.
In the second situation, if he slid one out while he slid the other one in, it would be a one stroke penalty under Rule 20-1, as the position would not be properly marked. If he tilted one up and slide the other one underneath it in a way that left the first one there until the second was in place it would be ok. Or, if he put down his finger where the ball would have been and moved the marker into place it would be ok. See Rule 20-1.
May 11th, 2011 at 8:05 amBut the first situation seems much like the second situation. Once the tee was removed, how could the position be properly marked? Unless one accounts for the small mark the tee would have made on the green (which then perhaps Decision 20-1/16 would apply). But then this would be the same for the second situation, because I forgot to tell you that in the second situation the replaced marker was the kind with a large post on the bottom, so that it left a mark on the green (similar to the mark that the tee would have left in the first situation). Rule 20-1 requires the ball position to be marked. Decision 20-1/16 gives an example that indicates a mark made on the green is not recommended but acceptable (the decision’s example is scratching a line, but a hole from a marker post, or a tee, would also serve this function).
May 11th, 2011 at 10:32 amNeal,
In the first situation the ball marker was moved by the fellow-competitor and Rule 18-4 applies. Neither player is penalized even if the exact location is not known.
In the second situation, the mark left on the green by the post would not be the same as a scratch on the putting green made by a player. The scratch was made for the purpose to mark the ball. The hole made by the ball marker is a result of marking the ball with ball marker. The hole made by the ball marker is more like the prohibited action of using a blemish on the green in Decision 20-1/16.
May 11th, 2011 at 10:45 amIs there a NCGA rule for a maximum allowable handicap for club play of 36 for men and 40 for women? If yes, can you give me the proper citation? thanks.
May 11th, 2011 at 2:35 pmSorry Ryan, one more follow up question regarding the hole made by the marker.
What if the player (before he replaces his marker with another marker) declares that he is pushing down on the marker to leave a mark on the green to temporarily locate the ball position, and then immediately after pushing on the marker, uses the mark left on the green to locate the substitute marker? It seems like this would be within the intent of the decision.
May 12th, 2011 at 12:47 pmNeal,
May 12th, 2011 at 1:12 pmI would agree that a player would be operating within the Rules.
At our tournament today, a player was observed entering a sand trap, playing a shot, the ball did not leave the trap, the player then raked the spot where he’d played his first shot, then proceeded to the spot in the trap where his ball had come to rest and played his second shot onto the green.
Found this below on the USGA site, and want to confirm that there is no penatly in this situation for the player described above.
13-4/36 Smoothing Irregularities in Bunker After Stroke But Before Ball Extricated
May 14th, 2011 at 10:44 pmQ. A makes a stroke in a bunker but fails to extricate his ball from the bunker. He smoothes irregularities in the area where the stroke was made. The smoothing does not breach Rule 13-2 with respect to his next stroke. However, B, his opponent, claims that the smoothing assisted A in his subsequent play of the hole because it constituted testing the consistency of the sand. Is B right?
A. No. In such circumstances Exception 2 to Rule 13-4 permits smoothing, provided nothing is done to breach Rule 13-2 with respect to the player’s next stroke.
While playing in an NCGA point tournament (The Sonoma County Amateur), after teeing off I announced my intention to hit a provisional ball as my tee shot appeared to be heading out of bounds. One of my competitors insisted that my provisional ball had to be the same brand and model as my first ball, but marked differently in order to distinguish it, siting the “one ball rule”. I disagreed, as the Rule was not spelled out in the local rules sheet handed out for the tournament, and I was under the impression that the rule only applied to professional events and/or highly-skilled amateur events. He replied that in NGCA point events, the one ball rule applies to provisional balls. I complied with his requirements, and then found my first ball in bounds anyway. Was he correct?
May 15th, 2011 at 9:28 pmDavid,
May 16th, 2011 at 9:30 amException 2 to Rule 13-4 is the applicable rule. There is no penalty.
Brain,
May 16th, 2011 at 9:37 amThe “One Ball Rule” is only used when adopted by the Committee. If the Committee had not notified the players that it was in effect, then it is not. The NCGA does not adopt the “One Ball Rule” for any of its championships or qualifiers. However, the USGA does adopt the “One Ball” Condition for its championships and qualifiers. Please see Appendix I Part C, for the prescribed condition.
This question regards Rule 13-4 (Ball in Hazard; Prohibited Actions). Let’s say you are in a lateral hazard with grass up to mid-calf high. You think you can play your ball as it lies. If you do not ground your club, can you take practice swings (away from the ball where they would not improve your line of play) and touch or brush the high grass with your club? Or, is touching the top of the grass considered grounding your club? Thanks!
May 17th, 2011 at 9:47 amOne of the players in our foursome hit a provisional tee shot. We found his original ball and abandoned his provisional ball. On my way to my tee shot I offered to pick up his provisional ball. Unfortunately I mistakenly picked up another players ball and not the provisional ball. We realized my mistake and replaced the ball before a stroke was made. I added a one stroke penalty to my score for moving another players ball. Was that the correct way to proceed?
May 17th, 2011 at 3:19 pmBob,
May 17th, 2011 at 3:58 pmYou should have not been penalized. You are an outside agency to that player’s ball. See Rule 18-4.
Larry,
May 17th, 2011 at 4:25 pmThe Note to Rule 13-4 states that a player may touch grass, bush or any growing thing at address or in the backward movement of the club. Your actions would not be considered grounding the club (decision 13-4/4). However, you would be in violation of Rule 13-4a for testing the condition of the hazard.
Nancy, thank you for your comment. The maximum USGA Handicap Index for men is 36.4, for women is 40.4. Bear in mind that these maximum Index figures can and do result in much higher Course Handicaps on sets of tees with high Slope Ratings. A man, for example, playing the back tees at Spyglass would find that his 36.4 coverts to a Course Handicap of 46. Handicaps can be computed above 36.4/40.4, but they must bear the letter “L” to indicate that they are for Local use only. Some of our NCGA tournaments do carry a handicap limit (i.e., Index of 18.4 or less) for various reasons. For your own events, do whatever makes sense. And if you like, go ahead and use Local handicaps that exceed 36.4/40.4. Thanks again – Jim Cowan, Director of Course Rating and Handicapping
May 18th, 2011 at 4:27 pmIf your ball is under a shrub, and in the rough, and you declare your ball unplayble, must it be dropped back into the rough, even thoug your two club relief would put you back into the fairway? Thanks for answering, as we have several different opinions on this matter.
May 18th, 2011 at 4:28 pmHugh,
May 20th, 2011 at 8:08 amThe rules of golf do not differentiate between rough and fairway. The ball may be dropped in the fairway. NOTE: When proceeding under Rule 28 a ball may be dropped anywhere on the course, including hazards and putting greens.
A players ball lies outside a Environmentally Sensitive Area (ESA) but his stance would be in the ESA. Would he be entitled to free relief?
May 20th, 2011 at 10:19 amPhillip,
May 20th, 2011 at 11:04 amA player is entitled to relief for stance and area of intended swing interference from an environmentally sensitive area, without penalty. See Appendix I for the prescribed relief procedure.
One of our members uses rubber tees and has a couple of different height ones attached to the same piece of string (for ease of locating them and less chance of losing them).
He was recently told by an opposing team player that by using a tee with the others still attached he was in violation of a rule; that he could be pinpointing his line of play.
Could you clarify please.
May 23rd, 2011 at 2:57 amCarol,
May 24th, 2011 at 10:32 amThe player may not use a tee with a string attached. The opponent was correct. The player would be in breach of Rule 14-3 and would be disqualified. Even if the player doesn’t use the string as an alignment device they would still be in violation.
Similar question to earlier one about different par for Men and Women but instead of match play what about stroke play or skins?
Women shoots 72 on a par 74 course and
a man shoots 71 on a par 72 course who wins in a Gross tournament?
On par 3 for men and a par 4 for women, all men make a 3 or greater and a woman makes a 3, would she win the skin because she made a birdie?
Thanks
May 24th, 2011 at 8:23 pmJohn, thank you for your comment. Last time I checked, low gross goes to the lowest score, not the lowest score in relationship to par. So I am going to have to say that the man who shot 71 wins. In a similar vein, I am going to say that everybody tied with a hole score of 3, so no skin awarded on the par 3/4. The results could be different in a net competition. It wouldn’t surprise me if the women’s Course Rating was higher than the men’s meaning that the women would add strokes to their handicap equal to the difference in the ratings. Thanks again – Jim Cowan, Director of Course Rating and Handicapping
May 25th, 2011 at 5:04 pmIs it permissable to mark the position of the ball on the greens with the head of the putter and lift & clean your ball with one hand whilst still holding on to the putter with the other?
May 26th, 2011 at 4:08 amCarol,
May 26th, 2011 at 8:08 amDecision 20-1/16 says that it is not recommended but it is permitted to mark the ball with the toe of the putter.
Is it ok to wear a wrist support during tournament play? A support like a sweatband.
May 26th, 2011 at 1:48 pmButch,
May 26th, 2011 at 2:38 pmException #1 to Rule 14-3 States that a player is not in breach of this Rule if (a) the equipment or device is designed for or has the effect of alleviating a medical condition, (b) the player has a legitimate medical reason to use the equipment or device, and (c) the Committee is satisfied that its use does not give the player any undue advantage over other players. A wrist support or sweatband would fall into this category.
During a tournament round of golf this past week we approached one of the greens and found a small sliver of soap on the green near the hole. We picked it up and tossed it aside. Afterward, one of the players in the group said he heard of people “waxing” their drivers with soap to eliminate spin to reduce hooking or slicing. I’m not sure if this is true but is it permitted? Should we have notified a tournament official of a potential rules violation?
May 27th, 2011 at 9:36 amPlastic liner installed around the greens is protruding up. Is it considered an obstruction or an intergral part of the golf course?
May 28th, 2011 at 10:06 amIn match play, when does the 5 minute search begin if a player or his side or their caddies do not search for a lost ball but the opponent starts to search.
May 28th, 2011 at 7:05 pmDave,
May 29th, 2011 at 10:36 amRule 4-2b states “Foreign material must not be applied to the club face for the purpose of influencing the movement of the ball”. Penalty for breach of this Rule is disqualification. Yes, you should report the facts to the Committee to allow them to investigate the matter with the players.
Ted,
May 29th, 2011 at 10:38 amThe plastic liner by definition is an immovable obstruction. A player would be entitled to relief, without penalty unless the Committee had deemed it to be an integral part of the course.
Hi Ryan,
Going back to the query about using tees with string attached,a few of our members are saying that when purchasing a set of winter cone tees, they come attached to each other with string and washers. Do they have to take these apart or is it a different ruling for winter tees used off the mats, even when a competition is being played?
May 29th, 2011 at 11:28 amLance,
May 30th, 2011 at 6:26 amSee Decision 27-2b/2. The 5 minute search starts when opponent begins searching.
Carol,
May 30th, 2011 at 6:31 amI am not familiar with Winter Cone Tees. String may not be attached to a tee because it may be used to indicate a line of play.
Hi Ryan,
May 30th, 2011 at 11:00 amI hesitate to even mildly disagree with you on the rules of golf as my success rate in such discussions is worse than the Giants team batting average, but I think Decisions 27-2b/2 and /1 are special and very limited equity situations that should be considered only when the player of the ball in question does not wish to search for his ball. Rule 27-1.c tells us a search begins “after a player’s side or…their caddies have begun to search.” Otherwise, I could see a player hit a provisional short of where the original is likely to be and while the player is playing the provisional the opponent starts to search (maybe with his eyes closed) and by the time the player gets to the area of his original ball his search time could be down to three minutes or less. So, I suggest that in a couple of very specific situations a search could begin when the opponent starts the process, but, normally, the player or his side must begin the search time.
Dan,
May 31st, 2011 at 8:39 amThe opponents search has no bearing on the players search. The player would still have five minutes to search once he starts searching. Decisions 27-2b/1&2 specifically relates to the situation in which a player does not wish to search for his ball and the opponent benefits by finding it. The opponent would then have five minutes once he starts searching or until the player makes a stroke at the provisional ball from a spot closer to the hole than where the original is likely to be.
Thanks Ryan,
May 31st, 2011 at 2:49 pmI am familiar with Decision 27-2b/1&2 and how it contradicts section a) of the Definition of a Lost Ball. I liked your explanation to Dan about the search benefiting the opponent over the player. As a player, one way I could avoid Decision 27-2b/2, not wanting the ball to be found by anyone, would be to hit a second ball without declaring a provisional, thus making that second ball the ball in play under stroke and distance.
In one of those “what if” situations that almost occurred in a recent tourney, we researched and found Decision 3-2/3 that says Player B can go back to hole out as he had not yet teed off on the next hole. Could he have done so if his partner had teed off on the next hole? Dec. 30-3f/12 would seem to indicate that once a partner has started a new hole, the previous hole is done for the other partner also; however, we can’t seem to find a rule that clarifies the situation. Help us out, please.
June 4th, 2011 at 7:48 amEd,
June 6th, 2011 at 8:15 amThe definition of Competitor states that when the context so admits, the word competitor or fellow-competitor includes his partner. So when his partner plays from the next tee it is no different than if the player would have started the next hole. The player would not be permitted to go back and complete the play of the hole once his partner has started play of the next hole.
Hi – not trying to stump anyone but would love some help on a ruling. My playing partner was taking practice swings and hitting weeds that were inside a lateral hazard on his follow through. His ball was outside the hazard however. I told him I thought it was a penalty that his practice swings were hitting weeds inside the hazard. The weeds were never hit hard enough to be dislodged from the ground, but i thoguht it would be deemed as “testing conditions” or “improving his lie”. He disagrees and felt he was entitled to the practice swings regardless that he was making contact with items in the lateral hazard and since his ball lied outside the hazard. Let me know. Thanks!
June 6th, 2011 at 1:09 pmEric,
June 6th, 2011 at 2:10 pmA player may touch grass and other growing things with his club when his ball lies in a hazard but he may not do anything that constitutes testing the condition of the hazard; per Rule 13-4. Since this player’s ball was not in the hazard there was nothing precluding him from taking practice swings and touching anything in the hazard.
Thanks Ryan – follow up question. What if in taking the practice swings you say are legal he dislodges those weeds that were in direct path from the ball to the hole? Is that allowed? Thanks again!
June 6th, 2011 at 4:27 pmEric,
June 6th, 2011 at 4:36 pmIf the player were to dislodge the weeds, he would be in violation of Rule 13-2 for improving his line of play or area of intended swing.
Ryan, What is the rule regarding a ball hit to the green from 152yds and it contacts another players ball aready on the green and moves his ball away from the hole.
June 11th, 2011 at 1:07 pmA few of us ladies went to an invitational were mulligans were sold. Each lady bought and used 2 mulligans. How should the holes where the mulligans were used be scored and posted?
June 12th, 2011 at 4:08 pmRyan this was submitted by Robin of the Arizona Golf Association. Is he stating that the cart path has the same status as a bountry fence or wall?
Phil Sexton
Out of bounds on hole # 4 is defined as the outside edge of the cart path behind the putting green. The Notice states, “A ball that lies beyond the cart path is out of bounds”. Player A’s ball lies on the cart path.
June 12th, 2011 at 4:45 pm**Player A may play the ball as it lies or proceed under Rule 28.
The ball lies on the course and the cart path is not an obstruction since the cart path is an object that defines out of bounds.
(See the Definitions of “Out of Bounds” and “Obstructions”.)
Jay,
June 12th, 2011 at 5:52 pmRule 18-5 states that the ball that was at rest must be replaced. Rule 19-5 states that the ball that struck the ball at rest must be played as it lies.
Lucille,
June 12th, 2011 at 5:54 pmThe holes in which mulligans were used would be considered holes not played under the Rules of Golf. The player would score, for posting purposes, par plus any handicap stroke they were entitled to.
Phil,
June 12th, 2011 at 5:57 pmYes, any item used to describe the boundary of the course is not an obstruction by definition.
Hi Ryan,
June 15th, 2011 at 10:28 amI know golf courses sometimes make local rules that don’t fully follow the rules of golf. I’m wondering if such is the case in Phil’s question of June 12th. His question looks like it may be a part of a rules quiz so we may not have all the necessary info, but my thinking is that if the cart path is the object that defines out of bounds, then it is analogous to a line that defines out of bounds. If a ball is totally on an ob line, it is ob; therefore if the ball is totally on the cart path it would be ob. The course obviously wants the outside edge of the cart path to be the course limit, so I would suggest it would be a better local rule if the path was declared an integral part of the course in the area in question, which would better fit the definition of an ob boundary. In either case the procedure/choices for a player with a ball on the path would not change, but as a good question for the right way to mark a course, what do you think?
I was with a foursome and on the 17th hole and my friend just teed off and hit the ball right down the middle of the fairway. At the time we all teed off, the sprinklers were on in the middle of the fairway. After everyone completed their drive the sprinklers went off and we preceded to retrieve our balls for our second shot. To our frustration we could not find my friends ball, that had drove it right down the middle of the fairway. We all looked everywhere, our conclusion was that it fell into the sprinkler when it was in a raised position and his ball dropped in. When the sprinklers went off it lowered on top of his ball and it disappeared. Is there a rule for this?
June 15th, 2011 at 5:41 pmLarry,
June 16th, 2011 at 8:01 amRule 24-3b deals with a ball lost in an immovable obstruction. The key component is the player must have knowledge or virtual certainty that the ball is in fact lost in the obstruction. If the group knew the exact sprinkler in which the ball was swallowed up, then he may proceed by dropping a ball within one club-length of the nearest point of relief from the spot in which it crossed the outer limits of the sprinkler. Without knowledge or virtual certainty that the ball is in the sprinkler, the player must proceed under Rule 27-1 (stroke and distance for a lost ball).
Dan,
June 16th, 2011 at 8:03 amI think the lesson to be learned here is that we have to be careful how we describe the boundaries of the course. Anything used to describe the boundaries of the course is by definition not an obstruction. If the club wants the cart path to remain an obstruction then it should use stakes or lines to describe the boundary in that area.
If I am under a tree on the fairway and I take a PRACTICE swing and my club hits a branch, am I penalized 2 strokes? I have been golfing for 6 years and was told about this rule for the first time today
June 16th, 2011 at 4:26 pmCarol,
June 16th, 2011 at 4:40 pmYou are only penalized if your actions improved your stance, lie of ball, area of intended swing or your line of play. See Rule 13-2 and Decision 13-2/14.5 and 13-2/22.
Thank You for your response and I’m sorry that I did not elaborate on the situation, but I was told that it was a two stoke penalty because a needle fell from the branch!
June 16th, 2011 at 4:54 pmCarol,
June 17th, 2011 at 8:22 amI am not sure that the needle falling from the branch would constitute improvement to the area of intended swing. Decision 13-2/22:Q. A player’s ball lies near a tree or bush. The player takes a practice swing near his ball and knocks down leaves in the area of his intended swing. Is this a breach of Rule 13-2?
A. The answer depends on whether the area of the intended swing is improved. In some cases, the knocking down of a number of leaves would not improve the area of the intended swing as the player still has to swing through a number of remaining leaves when making his stroke. In such circumstances, there would be no breach of the Rules. In other cases, the knocking down of one leaf might improve the area of the intended swing, in which case there would be a breach of Rule 13-2.
If a player has improved the area of his intended swing by knocking down a leaf or a number of leaves, he cannot avoid penalty under Rule 13-2 by subsequently changing the area of his swing when he actually makes the stroke.
we have a match play going on at our local Eclub, starting from 32 players, 2 separate brackets, now is down to quarter final. My question is: are all players require to post their scores during the 2 months match play perior ?(At our club the guy that run the tournament do not post score for anybody he said it’s not his job) and if not what penalty should they be incurred for the next up coming match ? Thanks
June 17th, 2011 at 9:46 pmTran,
June 18th, 2011 at 5:57 pmAll players are required to post their scores in match play. No penalty is incurred. The players handicaps should be calculated by including the missing scores for their next match to insure that they are playing with an accurate handicap index.
If both cards have the same score recorded and the player confirms this score can he be disqualified even when no penalty was incurred during the hole.
My partner and I were disqualified because five days after the game I was asked “how many putts did he have on a particular hole”? I said ‘not sure, maybe 2′ which would have given him 2 stableford points for the hole, but 3 points were recorded on the card. Due to this memory laps and with NO one protesting about his putting on the hole, the match committee have disqualified him for signing an incorrect card.
Is this in breach of the rules by the committee.
June 26th, 2011 at 4:32 amOut of Bounds stakes
Does the line of two out of bounds stakes go on indefinite or does the out of bounds end at the last stake?
June 28th, 2011 at 4:43 pmGlen,
June 29th, 2011 at 8:48 amRule 34-1b states that a penalty may not be imposed after the competition has closed unless the player has returned a score for any hole lower than actually taken (Rule 6-6d) for any reason other than failure to include a penalty that, before the competition closed, he did not know he had incurred. I am a little confused by your comments. I cannot tell if you and your partner had the same score on the hole. If your partner’s ball was the one to count on that hole and it was a wrong score for the hole (the committee is responsible for the calculation of the stableford points) then the committee was justified in the disqualification.
Ron,
June 29th, 2011 at 8:52 amIt is up to the Committee to decide how they wish the out of bounds to be defined. If two stakes are next to each other, it normally means that the out of bounds stops at that point and any ball beyond those two stakes would be in bounds. In some cases, the stakes are put next to each other to identify that the out of bounds goes left or right to infinity. Please ask the committee for their intention.
In match play player A is four feet from the hole. His opponent B is a few inches further from the hole. B should putt first; however, to do so he would be standing directly on the line of A. If A and B agree that it is ok for A to putt first (and maybe even also agree that the putt will not be recalled) have they violated 1-3 Agreement to Waive Rules and thus should be dqued? Or does etiquette and common sense allow such a procedure to take place?
June 29th, 2011 at 1:11 pmEd,
June 29th, 2011 at 3:56 pmOnce they verbally communicate that they knowingly are going to waive a Rule of Golf they must be disqualified. Player A may putt without saying anything and Player B may choose to not recall the stroke. In this case there would be no violation. Also see Decision 2-5/1.
In a round that I played yesterday, I had a first (for me). Playing a par 3, I pulled my tee shot. I knew that it was heading for a cart that the foursome ahead of my parked on the cart path between my hole and their tee. When I went to hit my second shot, I discovered the ball landed inside the cart. Is there a penalty for that. Our group had a discussion as to whether I should have incurred a penalty.
June 30th, 2011 at 1:05 pmSteve,
June 30th, 2011 at 1:36 pmThere would be no penalty. It was “rub of the green” (ball deflected by outside agency). Rule 24-1 (movable obstruction) applies and the cart must be moved and the ball dropped.
Hi Ryan,
June 30th, 2011 at 10:05 pmAt a junior tourney at Mather today a player who was at first left with an open shot to the green after his tee shot found, suddenly, and to his surprise that his shot was blocked by a fairway mower that was stalled and would not restart. Moments after we heard this situation on the radios, the official happily notified us that the recalcitrant lawnmower did indeed get started and moved out of the way of the young, befuddled golfer. The mower was not so close to the ball that it interfered with lie, stance or area of swing, but it was close enough to block the view of the green and require a difficult shot to hit over the mower. If the mower had not been able to be moved would it have been correct to allow relief under the TIO local rule?
Playing a second ball under 3-3.
July 1st, 2011 at 4:06 pmIn many stroke play tournaments participants are instructed to play two balls under rule 3-3 when therere is a doubt on a rule.
However, my understanding of rule 3-3 is that the player must declare which ball will count prior to playing a second ball. Many players have refused to do that stating that the rules comittee will decide which ball should count.
If a player refuses to declare which ball should count if rule 3-3 is adopted, is that player penalized? How should this be handled?
Dan,
July 2nd, 2011 at 6:41 amYes, the mower would be considered a Temporary Immovable Obstruction (TIO) if it could not be moved. See Appendix I for relief procedures.
Bob,
July 2nd, 2011 at 6:45 amIf both balls are played in accordance with the Rules, the ball selected counts if the competitor announces in advance his decision to invoke this Rule and announces in advance the ball with which he wishes to score. If the competitor does not announce or select in advance, the score with the original ball counts if played in accordance with the Rules. See Decision 3-3/0.5 for additional guidelines for determining which ball should count when played under Rule 3-3.
During the course of a four-ball match, Player A lagged up to the hole a tapped in for a 4. He then stated he had a 4 for a net 3.And he stated the match was over. He did not end up recieving a shot on the hole so his score would only be a 4.
Both of his opponents still had putts remaining that could have won the hole. They each missed and finished with 4s to tie.
My question is does player A lose the hole for giving false information? or was it his opponents job to know his score?
July 3rd, 2011 at 8:34 amCan a player compress a slight amount of grass in front of a golf ball to help insure proper alighnment? Stroke or Match play. I had match where a person did this on every stroke.
July 3rd, 2011 at 9:24 pmThomas,
July 4th, 2011 at 6:36 amNo, a player may not compress the grass in front of his golf ball. It would be a two stroke penalty in stroke play or loss of hole in match play for violation of Rule 13-2.
Drew,
July 5th, 2011 at 10:47 amThere would be no penalty for wrong information under Rule 9-2. It is up to each player to know the holes at which handicap strokes are to be given or received. See the note to Rule 6-2 and Decision 6-2a/3.
Where does out of bounds start if there is a white line and a white stake one yard inside the white line indicating OB? The edge of the fairway was bounded by an access road into the course and there was a white line painted on the edge of the road indicating OB. In addition, there were white stakes (likely to alert the golfer that there was OB on the left) but the stakes were set away from the road by a yard. My drive ended up outside the white stake but inside the white line. Am I out of bounds?
July 6th, 2011 at 10:11 amDave,
July 6th, 2011 at 10:16 amThe definition of Out of Bounds states “When both stakes and lines are used to indicate out of bounds, the stakes identify out of bounds and the lines define out of bounds. When out of bounds is defined by a line on the ground, the line itself is out of bounds”. By this definition, your ball is on the course.
My ball is at rest on green. I walk to it and fly suddenly decides to sit on it and it starts to roll further away from the hole. What do I do.
July 6th, 2011 at 2:41 pmGunasekharan,
July 6th, 2011 at 3:27 pmThe fly would be considered and outside agency and Rule 18-1 applies. If it can be proven that the ball was moved by the fly, then you may replace the ball back to its original position. See the Note to Rule 18-1. However, I believe that the ball most likely was moved by wind or gravity and you must play the ball as it lies.
A players hits his drive into an area of tall weeds where he feels he might not be able to find his ball. He hits a provisional drive along the same line as his original ball and into a bunker. He finds his original ball in the tall weeds and hits it along the same line as his provisional ball but past the bunker where his provisional ball landed. He goes to the bunker, sees a ball with his markings on it and hits it. He then realizes he hit the provisional ball and not his original ball which was several yards past the bunker. What would be the ruling in this situation? Does he receive a penalty? Does he continue playing the original ball or the provisional ball?
July 7th, 2011 at 2:11 pmFrank,
July 7th, 2011 at 2:30 pmWhen the player played the provisional ball, believing it was the original ball – he played a wrong ball and Rule 15-3 applies. He receives a two stroke penalty in stroke play or loss of hole in match play. He must correct the error by playing out the hole with his original ball.
When hitting a provisional ball, what must a competitor announce?
We have people at our club just saying they are hitting a provisional
ball without identifying it to us. Should the announcement be like
hitting off the first tee when we announce what ball we are playing
and how it is marked??
Our main question, when not announcing a ball that has identifying
marks, how do we know, as competitors, that the ball hit is actually
the provisional ball, especialy, if it goes into the woods, heavy rough???
I’ve looked through the rules and decisions book and I’m stumped!
Please help.
Thanks,
Paul
July 8th, 2011 at 3:50 pmor some other place where we lose sight of it??
Inside a water hazard is a 3 ft. upright pipe with normal garden water faucet at the top and a hose attached to the faucet. The hose is a moveable obstruction (which may be moved even in a w/h) and the pipe is an immovable obstruction from which free relief is not available for a ball in the hazard. Now for the question. If a ball is close to pipe can the hose be unscrewed from the faucet to help give relief for lie, swing or stance?
July 8th, 2011 at 8:37 pmPaul,
A provisional ball announcement only needs to include that the player intends to play a provisional ball. Information on the brand, type or number of the ball use is advisable, to avoid possible confusion or a dispute, but not required.
Rule 6-5 says a player should put an identification mark on his ball. Also, not a requirement, but a good idea to avoid playing a wrong ball.
July 9th, 2011 at 7:34 amRick,
July 9th, 2011 at 7:40 amDecision 24-2b/15.3 allows the player to move the hose in any manner. As long as it can be removed without unreasonable effort or causing damage to the course as stated in the definition of Obstruction.
My approach shot struck a goose next to the green. The ball bounced off the critter into a green-side bunker. I played the ball from the bunker but my partner said I should have rehit the shot from the original spot with no penalty. What is correct?
July 11th, 2011 at 8:11 amMike,
July 12th, 2011 at 8:34 amYou are required to play the ball where it came to rest. See definition of Rub of the Green and Rule 19-1.
Are you allowed to kneel on the green when lining up your putts?
July 18th, 2011 at 6:13 amA players ball comes to rest several feet or yards from the green, in the players line is a sprinkler head and he wants to putt his ball, is the player entitled relief from the sprinkler head?
July 18th, 2011 at 5:14 pmCarol,
July 18th, 2011 at 10:39 pmThere is nothing in the Rules of Golf that prohibit you from kneeling on the green to line up a putt. If it is causing damage to the green, I highly recommend some other method.
Gary,
July 18th, 2011 at 10:42 pmOnly if the Committee has adopted the Local Rule.
The Local Rule can be found in Appendix I of the Rules of Golf. In order to use this rule, the obstruction must be within 2 club-lengths of the edge of the green, your ball must be within 2 club-lengths of the obstruction and it must be on your line of play. Your ball can not be in a hazard. You would find the nearest point not nearer the hole where the obstruction is not on your line of play and drop there. Notice that you drop at the point of relief, not 1 club-length as in relief from a normal obstruction. Also, there is no guarantee that you will drop in the same mowed area. You might move from the fringe to the rough or vice versa.
In general, this rule should only be used at courses where there are large chipping areas around the greens and not when rough is generally close to the green.
Our course has 4×4 posts marking yardage at 100,150&200 yds. These posts are set in the rough and we give relief for obstuction and line of flight.My question is can a ball be moved from the rough to the fairway if it is within one club lenght or does the drop have to stay in the rough?
July 19th, 2011 at 5:58 amA player takes a swing to get his ball out of a sand bunker. The clubface strikes the sand behind the ball and the ball is airborne. The clubface continues and hits the in-flight ball. Is that a penalty? If so, what rule governs?
July 19th, 2011 at 8:59 amI play with a golfer that does the following on the gree. Replaces ball on the green, removes ball marker, places right foot directly behind the ball (without touching or moving it), then steps down as if to leave an impression. Then takes normal stance and putts the ball. It is routine permissible?
July 19th, 2011 at 11:17 amA player hits a ball towards a water hazard. Further right is Out of Bounds, so the player plays a provisional ball under rule 27-2.
July 19th, 2011 at 1:07 pmSearching for the ball, the ball is found inside the water hazard, but on dry ground.
Rule 27-2 states, “If it is known or virtually certain that the original ball is in a water hazard, the player must proceed in accordance with Rule 26-1.”
The provisional ball is abandoned, and the original ball is deemed in play.
Another player says that he must take relief from the hazard and cannot play the ball as it lies (even though it’s on dry ground in the hazard).
So, could the player play his original ball from within the hazard or must he proceed under rule 26-1 and take a drop?
Wayne,
July 19th, 2011 at 8:32 pmIt sounds like the yardage markers are immovable obstructions by definition. Rule 24-2 grants a player relief from stance, lie of ball and area of intended swing, but not line of play. If the player has interference as described in Rule 24-2 he may drop the ball within one club-length of his nearest point of relief, no nearer the hole. The Rules of Golf do not differentiate between fairway or rough. The player may drop in either.
Steve,
July 19th, 2011 at 8:33 pmThe player has incurred a penalty of one stroke for striking the ball more than once under Rule 14-4.
M. Milligan,
July 19th, 2011 at 8:36 pmThe player is in violation of Rule 13-2 and incurs a two stroke penalty in stroke play or loss of hole in match play. The player is not entitled to press down irregularities of surface around his ball unless it is on the teeing ground.
Greg,
July 19th, 2011 at 8:43 pmWhen the player played the provisional, he did so thinking his ball may be lost outside a water hazard or out of bounds which is acceptable under the Rules of Golf (Rule 27-2). When he finds the ball in the water hazard the provisional is no longer in play and he must proceed with the original ball. Since it was found in the water hazard he may either play it or proceed under Rule 26-1. See Decision 27-2a/2.2 and 27-2a/2.5.
Question: I was told by a long-time golfer that when a golfer holes his putt, he should immediately retrieve his ball from the cup because when the next golfer holes his putt it will hit the first ball in the cup and the second golfer will have a two-stroke penalty…I am unable to verify this is an accurate understanding of a ball on the green being putted into another ball and receiving two stroke penalty…it seems that once it is holed out, it is not on the green.
July 22nd, 2011 at 6:10 amSo, is a penalty or not?
Thanks from Idaho,
Carole Loving
Carole,
July 22nd, 2011 at 8:33 amSee the definition of Ball in Play. Once the ball is holed it is no longer in play and has no status in relation to the other players ball. There is no penalty if the balls were to collide in the hole.
I have a disagreement with members of my club concerning the holes that strokes are to be allocated to each player in match play. The USGA states that the strokes should be allocated to “equalize” the holes. My position is that if I am a 10 handicap on this course and my opponent is a 15, he would get strokes on the numbers 11 thru 15 handicap holes. My reasoning is that the first 10 handicap holes we are both expected to get boogies. If I gave him a stroke on the #1 handicap hole and I did not get a stroke on that hole he is expected to beat me on the hole because he gets a stroke.
July 22nd, 2011 at 10:30 amQuestion: In a stroke play partners event, is it a penalty for you or your partner when reading for example a 30 foot putt to stand on your line as if they were putting the last 10 feet of a putt and ground your putter. If it is a penalty, how many strokes and what would be the penaly if it were match play?
July 22nd, 2011 at 10:53 amMichael,
July 22nd, 2011 at 11:50 amYes, it is a penalty. Rule 16-1a does not allow a player to touch the line of putt in this manner. The penalty is loss of hole in match play or two strokes in stroke play.
John – thank you for your comment. In a head-to-head match, you would play at scratch, your opponent at a 5. You would give him a stroke on the 1 thru 5 ranked holes. Look at it this way, without strokes which hole do you think you have a better chance at beating him, a long tough par five (perhaps the #1 ranked hole) or a short simple par three (perhaps the #18 ranked hole)? Your superior ability should come through on the tougher holes meaning your opponent needs the strokes from you on those holes. Thanks again. Jim Cowan, Director of Course Rating and Handicapping
July 22nd, 2011 at 12:02 pmA player’s ball came to rest on long dry straw/grass on a severe slope. When he walked on the dry straw/grass to check out the lie/stand without a club, the ball rolled down the slope. Is the player penalized or just play from where the ball roll to rest without penalty?
July 22nd, 2011 at 8:53 pmOn a par 3, my second shot was going directly at the pin; however, no one in our foursome could find the ball. After an extensive search, we found the ball had actually stuck in the corner of the flag. As I removed the pin to free the ball from the flag, the ball fell into the hole. I thought my score should be a 2; however, quite a discussion ensued within our group regarding the appropriate ruling. What is the correct ruling?
July 24th, 2011 at 9:05 pmGeorge,
July 25th, 2011 at 9:39 pmIf the player caused the ball to move, the ball must be replaced and the player would incur a one stroke penalty under Rule 18-2a. If the player did not cause the ball to move and it moved because of gravity, wind or water the ball is played as it lies, without penalty.
In my last tournament with my local club, I chipped the ball to within 5″ of the hole on the 18th green. One of the players in my foursome decided to knock my ball back to me to “give” me the putt.
July 25th, 2011 at 9:50 pmI knew that I must putt the ball in or I’d be DQ’d for not putting the ball in the final hole.
I told him to replace the ball ito it’s original location so that I could follow the rules or I’d be DQ’d. He simply said the rules were ridicuous about me maybe missing a 6″ putt. He did replace the ball and I did make the putt for a double-bogey.
I shot a net 65 to his net 66 and I did win the tournament.
I don’t believe that I incur a penalty stroke for him moving my ball, but does he get a penalty for interfering with my ball?
Dan,
July 26th, 2011 at 5:35 amAs long as the search did not take more than 5 minutes, Decision 17/6 applies. You must place the ball at the edge of the hole and you would lie two at that spot.
Robert,
July 26th, 2011 at 5:38 amYour fellow-competitor is an outside agency and Rule 18-4 applies. The ball must be replaced without penalty to either player.
We played a qualifying round in which the best 8 gross scores qualified to play in a match play knockout competition. All of the following matches were to be played off scratch.
July 30th, 2011 at 1:34 amTwo of the players played their game and posted the result, a couple of days later it was realised that they had played with a full handicap difference and shots given accordingly.
What is the ruling please?
Hi Ryan,
In response to my question: “A player takes a swing to get his ball out of a sand bunker. The CLUBFACE STRIKES THE SAND BEHIND THE BALL and the ball is airborne. The clubface continues and hits the in-flight ball. Is that a penalty? If so, what rule governs?” (I’ve now capitalized the pertinent portion.)
You wrote: “The player has incurred a penalty of one stroke for striking the ball more than once under Rule 14-4.”
Because the ball was touched only ONCE by the clubface, why would Rule 14-4 apply? Thanks again…just need clarification.
July 30th, 2011 at 10:22 amMy approach shot to the green goes into a water hazard and lies out of bounds. It last crossed the margin of the hazard in bounds. The flow of water in the hazard carries the ball downstream so it now is in bounds. May I proceed under rule 26-1 instead of 27-1?
July 30th, 2011 at 12:39 pmSteve,
July 30th, 2011 at 1:23 pmSee decision 14-4/3. The fact that the club did not come into contact with the ball when the sand was struck, is still a one stroke penalty under Rule 14-4.
Carol,
July 30th, 2011 at 1:28 pmThe match stands as played. See Decision 6-2/5. The results may not be changed after the results have been officially announced.
George,
July 30th, 2011 at 1:31 pmSince the ball lies in bounds, the player may use the options as prescribed in Rule 26 (Water Hazards).
I was watching the British Open. I think it was Ricky Fowler who was off the green and was going to putt his ball but there was a sprinkler head between his ball and the hole. I think he got relief, a club length from the obstruction.
If the sprinkler head is a man made obstruction can he get relief if it lies in your putt path when off the green. What happen in the British Open did not agree with Rule 24.
August 1st, 2011 at 12:35 pmIs it legal to use tees with swing thoughts printed on them?
August 1st, 2011 at 10:04 pmWhen can a player drop his ball on the green when he is taking a free relief off the putting surface?
August 3rd, 2011 at 9:42 pmCan an extra club be layed down in a bunker while you play your bunker shot? For example, I enter the bunker with my wedge and putter. I lay the putter down in the bunker while I play my shot. Is there a pentalty?
Thanks for the help.
August 5th, 2011 at 5:30 pmDuring the 2011 Open Championship, a player left his approach just short of the green, and on the approach. With a good lie, the player chose to put; however, there were sprinkler-heads in his path, and he was given relief. The commentators stated that, if the sprinkler-heads were within two club-lengths of the green, and if the ball was within two club-lengths of the sprinkler-heads, the player was allowed relief.
Is it considered an immovable obstruction, is this applicable under USGA rules, does it apply only to the Euro-Tour, is it a local rule, or is it only applicable to the R&A? I don’t understand.
August 6th, 2011 at 8:09 amDear Rich,
You are absolutely correct that the ruling would not be consistent with Rule 24. Rule 24 in and of itself does not provide relief for obstructions on your line of play.
However, in Appendix I (Section B) there is a local rule relating to Immovable Obstructions Close to a Putting Green that reads:
“Relief from interference by an immovable obstruction may be taken under Rule 24-2. In addition, if a ball lies off the putting green but not in a hazard and an immovable obstruction on or within two club-lengths of the putting green and within two club-lengths of the ball intervenes on the line of play between the ball and the hole, the player may take relief as follows:
The ball must be lifted and dropped at the nearest point to where the ball lay that a) is not nearer the hole, b) avoids intervention and c) is not in a hazard or on a putting green. The ball may be cleaned when lifted.”
This Local Rule was in effect for the Open Championship and was the reason for the relief. This Local Rule is becoming more and more popular as closely mown aprons making the putter a viable option are becoming more and more popular at golf courses and championships.
August 7th, 2011 at 4:15 amAdrienne,
The answer is yes, you may use tees with swing thoughts printed on them. Accessing information on advice-related matters produced prior to the start of the round is ok. (See Decision 14-3/16). The problem with those tees would occur if the player were to search through the bag of “advice tees” and hand a specific one to another player. That would be giving advice and you would be subject to penalty under Rule 8-1.
August 7th, 2011 at 4:16 amGeorge,
A player may drop a ball on the putting green in four different situations under the Rules of Golf:
1) When taking relief from an obstruction when the ball is in a bunker under penalty of one stroke (Rule 24-2).
2) When taking relief from an Abnormal Ground Condition when the ball is in a bunker under penalty of one stroke (Rule 25-1).
3) When taking relief from a Lateral Water Hazard when the ball lies in the hazard. Your relief options may put you in position to drop on the putting green (Rule 26-1).
4) When taking relief for an unplayable ball and the ball is NOT in a bunker. Your relief options may put you in position to drop on the putting green (Rule 28).
So there is actually no FREE relief option to drop a ball on the putting green. Even though you are operating under a free relief Rule in the first two options above, the only way you could drop on the putting green is under penalty of one stroke because you get to drop outside the bunker.
August 7th, 2011 at 4:21 amMike,
Yes, you may place your clubs in the bunker without penalty.
See exception #1 to Rule 13-4.
August 7th, 2011 at 4:25 amKen,
Rule 24 in and of itself does not provide relief for obstructions on your line of play.
However, in Appendix I (Section B) there is a local rule relating to Immovable Obstructions Close to a Putting Green that reads:
“Relief from interference by an immovable obstruction may be taken under Rule 24-2. In addition, if a ball lies off the putting green but not in a hazard and an immovable obstruction on or within two club-lengths of the putting green and within two club-lengths of the ball intervenes on the line of play between the ball and the hole, the player may take relief as follows:
The ball must be lifted and dropped at the nearest point to where the ball lay that a) is not nearer the hole, b) avoids intervention and c) is not in a hazard or on a putting green. The ball may be cleaned when lifted.”
This Local Rule was in effect for the Open Championship and was the reason for the relief. This Local Rule is becoming more and more popular as closely mown aprons making the putter a viable option are becoming more and more popular at golf courses and championships.
August 7th, 2011 at 4:28 amWill you please explain the difference between Rule 18-3b and 18-4. Both require replacing the ball, but 18-3b incurs a penalty while 18-4 does not. I suspect that the difference lies in the distinction between “opponent” and “fellow competitor” – but the difference eludes me.
August 11th, 2011 at 9:18 amQurstion: On the green, Player A is away and will be putting. Player B places a club or other equipment behind the hole and removes the flagstick. Player A makes his putt too hard and the ball is going to contact the club/equipment previously laid on the putting surface behind the hole. Can Player B or others pick up the club/equipment to avoid the contact after the putt has been stroked by Player A, or is it only the flagstick that can be picked up, or neither? It seems this rule was changed a few years ago. Thank you.
August 11th, 2011 at 1:39 pmIn a tournament, one player was in the sand trap. He picked up the rake took it with him as he entered the trap and laid the rake down. He did this he said to help speed up play/and convenience to not have to go back and get the rake. Is this a violation? Could this be construed as testing the sand?
August 11th, 2011 at 1:46 pmChuck,
August 11th, 2011 at 3:43 pmThe difference is in the form of play. Your opponent is not entitled to move your golf ball without your authority. In stroke play, the fellow-competitor is an outside agency by definition and cannot be penalized for causing your ball at rest to move.
Jeff,
You are correct. This Rule did change in 2006. Before 2006, a player was not entitled to move a removed flagstick that was lying on the ground.
Rule 24-1 gives players authority to remove equipment and a removed flagstick.
August 11th, 2011 at 3:50 pmWayne,
August 11th, 2011 at 4:14 pmException to Decision 13-4/0.5 states that placing a rake in the bunker would not be considered testing the condition of the hazard.
Two players in Match Play. Player A tees ball up an inch in front of the tee markers and strokes it left down the the fairway into the tree line leaving not a very good lie. Player B identifies the infraction and states that Player A has lost the hole. Player A says that there is no penalty for being out of the teeing ground in match play and Player B can asked the tee shot to be replayed or not. Is this true?
Presented with this choice, Player B let the shot stand rather than asking for the shot to be replayed and possibly obtaining a better lie for Player A.
August 11th, 2011 at 4:32 pmThe Aged One,
August 11th, 2011 at 4:42 pmRule 11-4 states that there is no penalty in match play for playing from outside the teeing ground. However, the opponent may recall the stroke.
After finishing up on a par 3 I tee’d off on the adjacent par 5. My tee shot landed on the par 3 tee box (previous hole) and came to rest on a tee left in the ground. I thought it was a hoax at first but nobody was is sight. I played the ball as I found it. Is there a penalty?
August 17th, 2011 at 12:58 pmI am in a hazard (red stakes), the ball is playable but is sitting down in about six inch tall fescues, as I take my backswing (I don’t ground the club) I brush the fescues. Is there a penalty if so how would I proceed?
August 17th, 2011 at 11:24 pmYour in the middle of the fairway, as you address the ball you cause it to move 1/4 inch but the ball moves back to its original position. Is there a penalty?
August 17th, 2011 at 11:34 pmA ball lying in a lateral hazard – red stakes – used to be defined as being in a hazard by lining up the red stakes either side of the ball, but now I’ve been told that it is the contour of the different type of grass/surface defining that edge that determines whether you are in the hazard or not. Is this correct and does this new definition also apply to out of bounds – white stakes?
August 18th, 2011 at 7:43 amJim,
August 18th, 2011 at 7:52 amWow! That is a pretty incredible occurrence.
The ball is in play and there is no penalty for playing it off of the tee. The tee is, by definition, a movable obstruction. If you chose to not play the ball off of the tee, you could lift the ball move the tee and drop the ball as described in Rule 24-1.
TK,
August 18th, 2011 at 7:57 amThe Note to Rule 13-4 permits a player to touch grass, a bush or any growing thing within a hazard during address and/or the backward movement of the club for a stroke.
TK,
August 18th, 2011 at 8:00 amThe definition of moved in the Rules of Golf say that the ball has not moved. The ball must come to rest in another location.
A tee shot ended up just off the green in an area that had recently been chewed up, dug up by some animal probably searching for grubs or other food. The ball was not embedded, but it was on the ground as the grass had been removed by the animal. It was the only such area in the vicinity. Should the player get GUR relief?
August 19th, 2011 at 8:14 amRick,
August 19th, 2011 at 9:28 amI would recommend that the player use Rule 3-3 and play two balls and have the Committee decide on whether or not the area is ground under repair. The Note to the definition of a burrowing animal states that A hole made by a non-burrowing animal, such as a dog, is not an abnormal ground condition unless marked or declared as ground under repair.
A golf “buddy” misses the green by apx. 7 feet (short sided). He wants to putt his ball…but there is a sprinkler head on the line between his ball and the hole. He claims that he gets relief from the sprinkler head because he saw it happen in the Open Championship. Is this correct?
August 19th, 2011 at 9:35 amJCTR,
Rule 24 in and of itself does not provide relief for obstructions on your line of play.
However, in Appendix I (Section B) there is a local rule relating to Immovable Obstructions Close to a Putting Green that reads:
“Relief from interference by an immovable obstruction may be taken under Rule 24-2. In addition, if a ball lies off the putting green but not in a hazard and an immovable obstruction on or within two club-lengths of the putting green and within two club-lengths of the ball intervenes on the line of play between the ball and the hole, the player may take relief as follows:
The ball must be lifted and dropped at the nearest point to where the ball lay that a) is not nearer the hole, b) avoids intervention and c) is not in a hazard or on a putting green. The ball may be cleaned when lifted.”
This Local Rule is becoming more and more popular as closely mown aprons making the putter a viable option are becoming more and more popular at golf courses and championships. Check the Local Rules prior to playing.
August 19th, 2011 at 9:45 amThe golf ball is driven to an hazard area but it is not out of bounds.
August 20th, 2011 at 10:52 amThe balls rests near a man made wall that is immovable. Can the player
take a free drop to complete a full swing?
I teed off and hit the ball into a wooded area; then declared a provisional and hit it down the middle. When I went over to the wooded area, I could see a ball under a fallen limb about 25 feet away. I had no way of identifying it from a distance. Am I required to now go to the ball and identify it or can I simply walk away and proceed with my provisional as if my ball was lost.
August 20th, 2011 at 4:54 pmI thought there was a new decision that if you were searching in deep rough for your ball using a club and accidently moved your ball, you could just hit it from where it moved to or drop it as an unplayable lie without penalty. But when I look this up in my 2009 Decisions I find this not to be true; instead it is a two stroke penalty or loss of hole in match play.
August 21st, 2011 at 8:53 amRobert,
August 21st, 2011 at 8:18 pmRule 24-2b states that you are not entitled to relief from an immovable obstruction when your ball lies in a water hazard or lateral water hazard.
Craig,
August 21st, 2011 at 8:23 pmIf you cannot reach the ball to identify it within 5 minutes of beginning to search for it; it is lost. See decision 27/15. You must then proceed with the provisional ball.
In a recent tournament, I declared my golf ball unfit for play during play of a hole because I thought the cover was broken enough that, according to the Rules of Golf, I shouldn’t have to use it. My playing partner agreed when I asked him if I could without penalty. I finished the hole and went up to a rules official, asking if he thought this ball was unfit. He said no and I was charged two strokes. Should I have been penalized?
August 21st, 2011 at 8:27 pmRichard,
August 21st, 2011 at 8:32 pmRule 18-2 states that when a player causes his ball to move, he is required to replace it, even if it is during search. If it is not replaced he incurs the general penalty under that Rule. The exception that you may be referring to is when a ball is covered by loose impediments or sand in a hazard, for a ball in an obstruction or abnormal ground condition or for a ball believed to be in water in a water hazard. Also see Rule 12-1 (searching).
Jack,
August 21st, 2011 at 9:01 pmRule 5-3 gives your marker or fellow-competitor authority to determine whether or not the ball is unfit. Only if there is a dispute as to whether the ball was unfit or not; should the Tournament Official get involved. Unfortunately, you should have not been penalized in this situation.
Greg,
Friend of mine got DQ’d from an event recently under the following scenario: He needed to play a provisional. He turned to a competitor who was about 30ft away and announced he was playing a provisional- the other 2 guys in the group were further away and couldn’t have heard him. Several holes later, round was over, the competitor claims he didn’t hear any announcement of the provisional (several holes ago). They claimed he played a practice ball and was DQ’d. If you intend, and actually do announce “provisional” to a competitor but he doesn’t hear it, have you not complied with the rule. If not your competitor could simply lie and get you penalized in all similar situations. Also- was DQ the proper action assuming he had not signed his card prior to the ruling?
Thanks
Kevin
August 21st, 2011 at 10:46 pmKevin,
August 22nd, 2011 at 9:30 amDecision 27-2a/1.3 describes a situation in which a player intends to play a provisional ball but there is no one present to hear the announcement. The player is considered to have met the requirements of the Rule. I don’t believe the player should have been disqualified. Even if the Committee believed that he had violated Rule 7-2 (practice); it would have been a two stroke penalty, not DQ.
Ryan, a follow up because I was not clear; I could have reached the ball and identified it; the intent of the question was whether I was: (i) obligated to identify it once I saw it; or (ii) could I have seen it from a distance, decided that I would rather play my provisional (lying three) than try to hack out the original, and simply declined to go identify it. It was stroke play and no other competitor has seen the ball (or even bothered looking),
August 22nd, 2011 at 4:48 pmCraig,
Yes, you are obligated to identify your ball. Once you see A BALL that may be your ball you must inspect it. Decision 27-2c/2:
27-2c/2 Ball Believed to Be Original Found; Player Wishes to Ignore It and Continue Play with Provisional Ball
Q. At a par-3 hole, a player plays his tee shot into a heavy thicket. Since his ball may be lost, he hits a provisional ball that comes to rest near the hole. In the circumstances, it is advantageous to the player not to find his original ball. Accordingly, the player does not search for the original ball and walks directly toward his provisional ball. While the player is on his way to his provisional ball, a ball believed to be his original is found. The player is advised that his original ball may have been found. May the player ignore this ball and continue play with the provisional ball?
A. No. The player must inspect the ball that has been found and, if it is the player’s original ball, he must continue play with it (or proceed under the unplayable ball Rule). The provisional ball must be abandoned — Rule 27-2c. See also Decision 27-2b/1.
August 22nd, 2011 at 5:11 pmMy club plays a NET match play tourney for the club championship. We had a potential problem come up. One of the matches was all square after 18 and went back to the first hole to continue the match. One player had a pop on the first hole in the original 18 hole format. If the players had tied on the first hole of the play-off, would the player with the pop on the original 18 have still had a pop on the play-off hole? Would a tie on that hole have gone to the player with the pop on that hole originally??
Some of our members contended that once the original 18 holes had been played, there were no more pops and the extra holes were to be played “scratch”. I believe that net is net, and a pop the first time around merits a pop the second time around. Who”s right??
August 23rd, 2011 at 9:48 amKelly, thank you for your comment. In the playoff that you described, the high handicapper of the match would receive strokes on the same holes as the first time around. So they would “pop” again on the 1st hole. This is one of the reasons that the Handicap System recommends that a club avoid a real high ranking of the 1st hole . . . that it can result in a stroke being awarded too soon in a sudden-death playoff. Thanks again, I hope you had/are having a nice championship. Jim Cowan, Director of Course Rating and Handicapping
August 23rd, 2011 at 10:12 amGuy has a 4 footer. He misses it, and taps down a spike mark that was on his line. Misses the comebacker. Next putt will roll right over were the spike mark was. I contend he should be penalized for improving his lie/line. What’s the decision?
August 23rd, 2011 at 3:52 pmWalt,
August 23rd, 2011 at 8:19 pmThe player would be in violation of Rule 16-1c and would incur a two stroke penalty in stroke play or loss of hole in match play. A player is not allowed to repair damage that might assist him in the subsequent play of the hole. Also see Decision 16-1c/4.
A players approach shot imbeds just off the front of the green on the apron. He can lift and clean his ball. But can he fix the pitch mark before he drops the ball?
August 24th, 2011 at 9:45 amDave,
August 24th, 2011 at 10:19 amRule 13-2 does not permit a player to remove an irregularity of surface an an area where he will be dropping the ball. See Decision 13-2/10.
Jim,
August 24th, 2011 at 4:17 pmA similar question to Kelly above: In a stroke play net competition a playoff is necessary. Let’s say a 14 is playing a 10. If the first hole to be played is hdcp. #11 does the higher handicap player get a stroke? Or is the 10 played as a 0 for the playoff and the higher hdcp. player only gets strokes on handicap holes 1,2,3,4.
Please help me with decision 24-3b/3.7. If a right handed player were taking relief in the B2 example and the ball ended up in such a place that the only reasonable stroke was with a left handed stroke because the ball was very close to the ob wall, can the player now take relief on the other side of the path as that would be the nearest point of relief for a left hander? And if that relief is possible and he then turned around to play the shot as a right hander and was back on the cart path can he take relief again as turning around presents a new situation? In other words would it be ok by the rules to take relief up to three times from the original situation?
August 24th, 2011 at 4:25 pmSecond hole at our course has the cart path on the right side of the fairway. Since the inception of the course, the maintenance crew has veered off the cart path about 80 yards from the blue tees 30 yd right of the cart path( to pass players playing the hole without disturbing them) in between the the oaks creating a track through the trees. This track is not maintained, or marked in any manner. I have always played it down when I end up here. ( all too frequently :(). Recently a player claimed he was entitled to a drop. Is that considered cart damage? ( not marked GIR) The rest of the area looks very similar in nature cause its hardpan. FWIW the lie isn’t usually any different when you drop, the only advantage I see of a drop is possibly a better line for after the drop, to find a better gap.
August 25th, 2011 at 9:02 amRick,
August 25th, 2011 at 10:42 amPer the USGA’s Handicap Manual: The higher handicapped player receives the full difference in course handicap between the two players; the lower handicapped player plays from scratch. The higher handicapped player then will receive strokes on the hardest handicap allocated holes.
Drew,
August 25th, 2011 at 10:51 amYes, your interpretation is accurate. It is reasonable for the player to turn around and play left handed and he would be entitled to take relief for a left-handed stroke. After dropping from the obstruction for that stroke, he decides to turn around and play the stroke right handed; no problem. If he has interference from the obstruction for the right-handed stroke, this is a new situation. The player would then be able to take relief as prescribed in Rule 24-2b for that stroke.
Walt,
August 25th, 2011 at 10:56 amIt is up to the Committee to decide how this area is treated. In most cases, the area would be treated as through the green. It does not meet the definition of obstruction or ground under repair as described.
Saw an unusual relief situation Saturday at Johnnie Walker. Thomas Bjorn stepped on his ball in deep rough during a search for his ball. It was hidden beneath shin deep fescue. Said it moved slightly when he stepped on it and he could not know for sure what the original position was. He was granted a free drop which resulted in a very playable lie on the top of the fescue. So he went from an unplayable position to a relatively good lie. Do not understand the ruling? Can you elaborate?
August 27th, 2011 at 8:57 amDave,
Since the player did not know the lie or original spot (since he stepped on it), Rule 20-3c applies. He was penalized one stroke under Rule 18-2a.
RULE 20-3c:
c. Spot Not Determinable
If it is impossible to determine the spot where the ball is to be placed or replaced:
(i)through the green, the ball must be dropped as near as possible to the place where it lay but not in a hazard or on a putting green;
Also see Decision 20-3b/5
August 27th, 2011 at 10:01 amA ball lying in a lateral hazard – red stakes – is defined as being in a hazard by lining up the red stakes either side of the ball, but now I’ve been told that it is the contour of the different type of grass/surface defining that edge that determines whether you are in the hazard or not. Is this correct and does this new definition also apply to out of bounds – white stakes? This is my second request for a clarification on this and I would really appreciate an answer. Thank you.
August 28th, 2011 at 11:05 amIan,
When the margin of a lateral water hazard is defined by stakes, the stakes are inside the lateral water hazard, and the margin of the hazard is defined by the nearest outside points of the stakes at ground level. Yes, a player should line up the stakes between the ball to determine if the ball is in the hazard.
Decision 26/3 explains how the player should treat an unmarked hazard (no stakes or lines).
Decision 26/2 gives the player direction how to treat a lateral water hazard that has been marked incorrectly and does refer to the natural boundaries of the hazard.
When out of bounds is defined by reference to stakes or a fence or as being beyond stakes or a fence, the out of bounds line is determined by the nearest inside points at ground level of the stakes or fence posts (excluding angled supports).
Natural boundaries is not applicable to out of bounds.
Decisions 33-2a/19 and 20 gives the Committee direction on how to proceed when a boundary stake has been displaced.
Please read all applicable decisions to better understand the treatment of boundaries.
August 30th, 2011 at 8:59 amA situation arose in yesterday in an ongoing sroke play tournament. On the second hole my cart partner hit a driver slicing it into the woods and I did the same with a 5 wood. We both hit provisional balls and proceeded to look for our original shots. As we approache the area where I hit my first shot the other player bounded from the cart ran to the only ball we saw and announced that it was his ball. All four of us in gthe foursome continued to look for “my” ball in vain. After a few minutes I declared it lost and hit my provisional. We played the hole out and on the next tee all four of us hit slices near the OB stakes on the right. I found my ball OB and we continued to search for my cart partners ball. I found a ball also OB and as I picked it up realized that it was the ball lost from the previous hole. Since this spot was about 700 yards from the second tee we assumed that my cart partner had played it on the second hole. He when asked about vehemently denied it but could not tell us on the nest few holes what ball he was hitting as he continued to hit it in trouble. As a foursome what should we have done?
September 1st, 2011 at 8:39 amDennis,
September 1st, 2011 at 9:45 amI would ask the player at the start of the hole to identify his golf ball and mark it, as suggested in Rule 6-5. If there is evidence that the player has played a wrong ball and did not correct it prior to starting play of the next hole they must be disqualified under Rule 15-3. This issue needed to be brought to the Committee so that they could gather the information and make a proper ruling.
Ok, so I’m a PGA Professional- Back “in the day” it used to be ettiquette that a twosome had no standing on a course. Foursomes were the proper way to play the game. A twosome who teed off could not expect a course full of foursomes to allow them to play through. Yet when I see the ettiquette section of the rules today it takes a different tenor. When did this get changed? A foursome who plays in 3 hours and 45 minutes should be expected to let a handfull of twosomes play through? This seems odd to me. Can you expand on this question?
September 6th, 2011 at 9:05 pmNate,
The original version of etiquette in the 1899 Rules of Golf simply says “ A single player has no standing, and must always give way to a properly constituted match.”
There is nothing in the etiquette section that has ever given a four-ball match priority over a faster group be it a singles match or a true foursome.
Prior to 2004, it was stated as:
“In the absence of special rules, two-ball matches should have precedence over and be entitled to pass any three-ball or four-ball match, which should invite them through.
A single player has no standing and should give way to a match of any kind.
Any match playing a whole round is entitled to pass a match playing a shorter round.”
Note: that match was italicized in this, meaning it was the defined term and therefore this only really applied to match play. There was no stipulation as to stroke play at all.
September 7th, 2011 at 9:43 amIn a recent event (I believe it was the Amateur) where a player hit the ball into an unplayble lie. He was granted relief by the official but the closest point of relive was the cart path. He dropped the ball twice and each time it rolled 20 yards down the path and so he hand placed it on the cart path under the supervision of the official. The official then declared the ball “in play” and steped back. Shortly thereafter the ball started to roll down the path and ended up 20 yeards closer to the hole where the official declared the ball in play at that point. My question is “what if the ball had rolled down the path and ended up “out of bounds”. Would the ball have to be placed back on the path with a two stroke pentalty or what?
September 7th, 2011 at 4:29 pmOtto,
September 8th, 2011 at 9:11 amWhen the player declared the ball unplayable he was penalized one stroke and chose to proceed under Rule 28-1c and drop the ball within two club-lengths of where the ball lay. The cart path happen to be within the two club-length area. He dropped the ball and it rolled more than two club-lengths after striking a part of the course and was required to be redropped under Rule 20-2c. After dropping the second time with the same result the player was required to place the ball at the spot where it struck a part of the course on the second drop. When it was placed and at rest, the ball was in play. When it subsequently moved it was required to be played from where it came to rest since neither wind or gravity is an outside agency. If the ball would have come to rest out of bounds, the player would have been required to return to where his last stroke was played, under penalty of one stroke, and put a ball in play under Rule 20-5. Also see Decision 20-2c/3.5.
I’m confused about how ratings and slope are determined. I normally play at Franklin Canyon from the whites which has a rating of 69.6 and a slope of 127. I just played Tilden with a rating of 68.3 and a slope of 120. Tilden has a number of holes which are very steep uphill to the green situations similar to their famous first hole, while Franklin Canyon has a couple of par threes and a par five that are uphill but not even close in terms of steepness. How does this work?
September 9th, 2011 at 8:49 amDuring a recent tournament a golfer marked her ball on the green. She was asked to move the marker by another golfer. They all finished putting out without the golfer moving the marker back to the original spot. They proceeded to the next tee and did not realize the error until putting on the following green. Before they turned in the score card, they asked for a ruling. Was she disqualified, or a 2 stroke penalty. She was advised it would be a DQ by a temp rules person as our official rules person was unavailable. We also checked with the club pro who said DQ. She wrote DQ on her card and turned it in. Question, which ruling is correct-and can it be corrected now, if necessary.
September 10th, 2011 at 3:16 pmIs a player allowed to take a rake into the bunker with them before they hit there shot in a match? Or must they hit there shot first,then clean the bunker?
September 10th, 2011 at 4:50 pmCathy,
September 10th, 2011 at 9:44 pmWhen the player failed to return the ball to its original position and played, she incurred a two stroke penalty under Rule 20-7 (playing from a wrong place). If she was mistakenly disqualified, the committee could reinstate her score with a two stroke penalty before the competition closes under Rule 34-1b. If the competition has closed, no penalties may be rescinded or modified.
Bob,
September 10th, 2011 at 9:49 pmThe player may take a rake into the bunker prior to playing from the bunker under Exception 1 of Rule 13-4. The player is not entitled to rake the bunker until a stroke is made from that bunker and the player must insure that the subsequent raking does breach Rule 13-2. Also see Decision 13-4/0.5.
In a 36 hole match-play competition, is it permitted to caddy for a player for the first 18 holes and then act as referee for the same match throughout the last 18?
September 12th, 2011 at 5:16 amRichard Allen, thank you for your comment. Slope does NOT refer to the hills and dales on a golf course. Instead it is an attempt to tell you how difficult that set of tees play for a high handicapper versus the low handicapper. Or, to put it another way, how much of the trouble tends to gang up on the higher handicapper. The higher the Slope Rating, the greater the relative difficulty for the high handicapper versus low. Here is a link to a column on the subject of Slope. http://www.ncga.org/2007/06/18/an-explanation-of-slope/ Thanks again – Jim Cowan, Director of Course Rating and Handicapping
September 12th, 2011 at 7:45 pmCarol,
September 12th, 2011 at 8:37 pmYes, a person may caddie for a player and then act as the referee during the match. There is nothing in the Rules that prohibit such action. A player may hire and fire a caddie at anytime. The Committee is responsible for assigning the Referee for the match and they may do so as they see fit.
You hit your ball across a water hazard. It lands on the green side of the hazard, bounces across the rough which is beside the green, and comes to rest in a lateral hazard, which is an extention of the water hazard. What is the ruling?
September 14th, 2011 at 4:45 pmLucille,
September 15th, 2011 at 9:33 amIt is most important to know where the ball last crossed the margin of the hazard. If it last crossed the margin of a lateral water hazard then the options for a lateral water hazard are available to the player.
Player hits tee shot (par 3) into tree and the ball does not fall to the ground. Although a ball is visable it is not identified. All players are virtually certain the ball remained up in the tree. Player drops under the tree and eventually holes out. No significant advantage was gained by the player having dropped in a wrong place. What is the total number of penalty strokes incurred?
September 17th, 2011 at 10:01 amThank you.
Match Play. A&B are playing a match. On a par 4 hole which neither player receives a stroke. Player A is 30-feet from the hole lying 3. Player B is 10 feet from the hole lying 6. Player B concedes the hole to Player A.
Question: What do you record on the score card for both Player A and B?
Reference: reference rule 2-4 and 4-1
September 18th, 2011 at 7:32 amI have a question regarding play from the sand or bunker in an NCGA sanction Tournament play. A player’s ball is lying in the sand in a bunker. The player picks up the rake when entering the bunker to hit the ball. The rake is dropped or placed in the sand while the player addresses and hits their ball. Then the player picks up the rake and rakes the sand. Did the player test the sand when placing the rake in the sand before hitting the ball? Is this a penalty?
September 18th, 2011 at 10:25 amCharles,
September 18th, 2011 at 5:53 pmIf the ball is not found within five minutes of beginning to search, it is lost. If the player was unable to identify the ball as his in the tree, the ball is lost and the player must return to the tee and proceed under Rule 27-1. See Decision 27/15. Since the player dropped under the tree without identifying the ball in the tree he played from a wrong place, serious breach, under Rule 20-7 and was required to correct the error by playing from the teeing ground. If he plays from the next tee without correcting the error, he is disqualified.
Jon,
September 18th, 2011 at 6:00 pmFor result purposes: Player A – 4, Player B – 6. For posting purposes, Both players must post the score they most likely would have made not to exceed Equatable Stroke Control. Player A 5, Player B 8. See USGA Handicap Manual Section 4-1.
Doug,
September 18th, 2011 at 6:06 pmThe player may take a rake into the bunker prior to playing from the bunker, without penalty, under Exception 1 of Rule 13-4. The player is not entitled to rake the bunker until after a stroke is made from that bunker and the player must insure that the subsequent raking does breach Rule 13-2 in relation to the ball. Also see Decision 13-4/0.5
Follow up to scenario described to you on 9/17/11: as per Rule 27-7c note 1, how is a significant advantage gained? I determined that competitor did not gain such. Was I in error? And IF no significant advantage had been gained, was there a total of four penalty strokes incured?
September 19th, 2011 at 4:41 pmCharles,
September 19th, 2011 at 8:14 pmSince the ball was not found and identified within five minutes of beginning search, it was lost. The player was required to proceed under Rule 27-1 and under penalty of one stroke, play a ball as nearly as possible at the spot from which the original ball was last played (see Rule 20-5). By dropping and playing a ball from up by the green, the player gained a significant advantage of distance and was in violation of Rule 20-7. IF, for some reason, the player was not in a serious breach of Rule 20-7. The player would have received a two stroke penalty added to their score under the applicable Rule (Rule 27-1) and a one stroke penalty under Rule 27-1.
Under the Rules, this player has a serious breach of Rule 20-7 and would be disqualified if they were to play from the next tee. However, since you (The Committee?) have let him proceed in this manner he would not be subject to disqualification after the competition has closed. See Rule 34-1.
Can my opponent mark my ball on the green without my permission, to speed up play?
September 20th, 2011 at 7:54 pmJohn,
September 21st, 2011 at 8:43 amYour opponent in match play may not mark you ball without penalty. The opponent would be penalized one stroke under Rule 18-3.
In the rules of golf, at the end of rule 27-1, it states “PENALTY FOR BREACH OF RULE 27-1:
September 22nd, 2011 at 12:53 amMatch play – Loss of hole; Stroke play – Two strokes”
Does this mean that instead of returning to the spot nearest to where the ball was last hit, I can drop a ball as near to where it was last known to be and take a two stroke penalty?
No. A player would be disqualified for a serious breach of Rule 20-7 if he were to drop a ball near where a ball was lost. The General Penalty occurs when a player returns to the spot from where the last stoke was played and plays from a wrong place without a serious breach.
September 22nd, 2011 at 2:11 pmIf your own ball makes a pitch mark on the green, but then your ball spins back and comes to rest off the green are you allowed to repair that pitch mark? There is a debate at our club about Rule 16-1.c.
Some members are saying: No, the pitch mark cannot be repaired.
some: You can ask somebody else to repair it
But I believe that under the said rule: as long as you state your intentions you can repair the pitchmark yourself.
Could you please clarify the correct procedure.
September 25th, 2011 at 12:23 pmCarol,
September 25th, 2011 at 5:22 pmRule 16-1c allows a player fix either ball marks or old hole plugs on the putting green at any time. Even if it is on the players line of play or line of putt.
We’re having a debate about advice and if it’s allowed between two teammates on a jr high golf team playing another school.
Situation:
1) Golf match between two Jr. High School teams.
2) Each team has six golfers.
3) Three groups with two golfers from each school.
4) Scoring is the total of the best five scores from the six golfers.
5) The competition is stroke play.
6) Team only scoring, there isn’t any individual awards.
Can the two teammates in a group give advice to each other?
September 26th, 2011 at 5:49 pmGary,
September 26th, 2011 at 8:16 pmThe players may not give advice to one another. See Decisions 8-1/21 and 8-1/22.
I hit my tee shot into a green side bunker. My next shot is a very low line drive that buries into the face of the bunker and is unplayable. Is there any option under Rule 28 that could get me out of the bunker with a one stroke penalty for my next shot?
September 27th, 2011 at 4:54 pmDrew,
September 28th, 2011 at 8:39 amNo. There is no Rule that will allow you to drop outside the bunker.
Your ball, by definition, is deemed to lie in the bunker. All of your options under Ball Unplayable (Rule 28) will require you to drop a ball in the bunker.
When putting or chipping from off the green can you repair ball marks and remove loose impediments?
September 28th, 2011 at 7:34 pmJC,
September 29th, 2011 at 8:06 amThe player may fix ball marks and old hole plugs on the putting green at anytime per Rule 16-1. The player may move loose impediments per Rule 23-1. However, the player should insure that the ball is not moved in the process.
My ball is on the green and I have marked it. But I have not picked it up. I am not in the act of picking it up. I have left my ball to assess the putt. My ball now rolls away due to terrain or wind. Since my ball was marked do I replace it or putt from the new position?
September 30th, 2011 at 2:26 pmThank you.
John,
September 30th, 2011 at 2:33 pmThe ball was in play and wind or gravity is not an outside agency. The ball must be played from where it came to rest. The ball marker is there to allow you to get your hand on the ball without penalty. See Decision 20-4/1 and 18-1/12.
I have seen many times on tv, pro players who have a short putt which they miss. In frustration or disgust or both, they tap down something on the line of the putt they had just made, then tap in the missed putt. I strongly suspect that the tapping which was done was a spike mark or something other than an old hole plug or ball mark. Why is there no penalty? Is it because the tapping was not on the line of the next putt? Or does everyone assume the tapping was on a ball mark?
October 2nd, 2011 at 8:21 amDrew,
October 3rd, 2011 at 12:44 pmThe line of putt ends at the hole. When the player taps down any other damage to the putting green that is not a ball mark or old hole plug they must insure that it does not assist them in the subsequent play of the hole. See Rule 16-1c.
There has been sudden interest in the old club “SuperStick”. The rules talk about altering a club while on the course, but this clubs purpose is to be altered as a standard use of the club. You are not altering the intended use or the loft of this club beyond what it is designed to be used for.
The assumption is by many that this rule would place this club in violation of the rules because of any alteration. The question is; does it actually violate the rules for the reasons I stated or could it be considered a legal club at least for normal play where a score is kept and posted?
October 3rd, 2011 at 1:36 pmAn 8 foot section of chain link fence that is normally upright and serves as the ob boundary of the course has fallen onto the ground and onto the course. A player’s ball ends up on top of the fence section. In this scenario does the player get relief from the fence section under Rule 24?
October 3rd, 2011 at 2:15 pmSteve,
October 3rd, 2011 at 3:25 pmThe SuperStick is not a legal club under the Rules of Golf because it may be adjusted easily (without a tool). See Appendix II of the Rules of Golf. If this club is used during a round, it should not be posted because it is not played under the Rules of Golf. See Rule 5-1f of the USGA Handicap Manual.
Drew,
October 3rd, 2011 at 3:51 pmIf the portion of the fence is completely detached from the rest of the boundary fence, the player may proceed under Rule 24-1 or 24-2. Otherwise, the fence would still be considered marking the boundary and Decision 24/4 would apply.
I find 23-1 and 18-2 to only confuse this situation: Is there a penalty when a player’s ball is just an inch or so off the green and in brushing away loose impediments on the green the player accidentally moves his ball.?
October 5th, 2011 at 11:32 amEd,
October 5th, 2011 at 1:24 pmThe second paragraph of Rule 23-1 states that if the ball lies anywhere other than on the putting green and the removal of a loose impediment by the player causes the ball to move, Rule 18-2a applies. The player would be penalized one stroke under Rule 18-2a for moving the ball when attempting to remove a loose impediment because the ball did not lie on the putting green.
A players ball is on the left side of the cart path, Also there is a lateral water hazard left of the cart path. The hazard stakes (no line) are about 6 to 8 inches from the cart path. Would a player try to determine his nearest point of relief, even though he would be standing inside the margin of the hazard and it would be difficult to determine the one club lenght and maintain total relief. Or could he go to the right side where is clear he could take total relief.
Phil Sexton
October 11th, 2011 at 9:08 amPhil,
October 11th, 2011 at 9:20 amIf the player can get complete relief on the side that would require him to stand in the hazard, he must drop on that side. If complete relief is not possible on the lateral water hazard side, he must drop on the other side of the cart path. See definition of nearest point of relief and Rule 24-2. Decision 24-2b/3.5 may also be helpful.
Playing a par 3, my tee shot entered a red-staked water hazard at a point approximately 10 yards from the pin. My playing partners all insisted that I had to hit my next shot from either the drop area or the tee, both of which were over 130 yds from the pin. I believe that I could have played my next shot where it entered the hazard. A short chip from the pin. I felt cheated. Are drop areas ever mandatory? I wouldnt think that they supercede USGA rules.
October 11th, 2011 at 8:08 pmRick,
October 12th, 2011 at 8:30 amUnder Rule 26-1 you had the option of dropping within two club-lengths of the point where your ball last crossed the margin of the lateral water hazard. A dropping zone is normally an additional option to the other options available under the Rules. In special circumstances dropping zones may be made mandatory by the Committee. For example, the PGA will occasionally require a player to use a mandatory dropping zone for a ball in a grandstand.
In two similar instances this year I witnessed golfers hit low hooks off an opponents golf cart that were parked in unsafe locations in front of the players. One blew a nice fist sized hole through the plexiglass.
In reading rules 19.1 through 19.4 it appears the golfer has two options in match play. 1) Playing the deflected ball as it lies, or 2)canceling the stroke and replaying the shot as close to where the previous shot was taken.
However, it seems like the golfer only has the one option of playing the ball as it lies in stroke play? Why wouldn’t these two rulings be the same since the ball was deflected by a competitor’s equipment in both cases? Aside from the fact that both were terrible shots and only serve as a warning to stay well behind these two players.
ted
October 12th, 2011 at 1:41 pmTed,
October 12th, 2011 at 2:40 pmIn stroke play a fellow-competitor is an outside agency by definition. Rule 19-1 would apply. In stroke play the competitor is playing against everyone in the field. So the fellow-competitor’s equipment should have the same relationship as everyone else’s equipment. Remember, the player could have asked to have the cart moved before playing. In match play, the opponent is not an outside agency and Rule 19-3 applies. Since the player and opponent are only competing against one another in the same group, the player is given the option of how they wish to proceed.
In a scramble format, when adding up scores, you find an different count on one hole between the two score cards being kept.
October 14th, 2011 at 9:09 amGoing back in your minds, one player says they are “pretty sure” about the strokes, another says they are not sure, and another says they don’t remember. The “A” player makes the call to correct to the “pretty sure” player’s. After all players have signed the score card and after the awards banquet, the player who originally said that they weren’t sure, claims that “now they remember”, and the score was higher.
Is this a DQ?
What are my options for taking relief from a red-staked hazard? My reading of the rules suggests that I may go back and rehit from the spot from which the original ball was played, or drop a ball within two club-lengths, not nearer the hole at the point where the original ball crossed the margin of the lateral hazard, or go to a point on the opposite margin of the hazard. My playing partner says that I also can go back as far as I want, keeping the point where the ball crossed the hazard in line with the pin! I say that option only applies to yellow-staked hazards. The rule book says hazards are marked red because it is impractical to go back keeping the ball in line with the margin of the hazard and the pin! In short, can you go back as mentioned above when in a lateral water hazard? Thanks!
October 15th, 2011 at 12:30 pmWhile on the green, and on two different occasions, a player became agitated after other players, who were “away”, putted immediately after he had putted. He relayed after both incidents (although he had been 10ft. or more from the cup) that he had the “right” to follow his ball.
Normally this is not an issue as most players state they would like to finish and are usually inches from the hole.
Is there a rule for continuous putting or is it just a courtesy initiated to increase the pace of play?
October 16th, 2011 at 7:51 pmJames,
October 17th, 2011 at 8:57 amRule 6-6 states that when a player signs for a higher score, that score must count. If the score was lower than actually taken the team is disqualified. As to the discovery after the competition had closed, see Rule 34-1. From the information you have given it sounds like the committee acted correctly. No alterations to the score card may be made after the card has been returned to the committee.
George,
October 17th, 2011 at 9:00 amYes, the options of a water hazard are also available for a lateral water hazard. In most cases, the options of a water hazard are not available and that is why the committee would choose to mark it as a lateral hazard.
Roxanne,
October 17th, 2011 at 9:02 amContinuous putting is permitted in stroke play only. There is no penalty for playing out of turn in stroke play. See Rule 10-2b.
My ball lies in a water hazard containing plants, small weeds and tall weeds behind me. I take some practice swings in the hazard brushing the weeds and plants and hitting the tall weeds behind me. For the sake of argument, I did not ground my club, move any loose impediments or break anything off the weeds and plants. Am I considered to be testing the area of my intended swing or is that just a subjective issue that could have varied opinions from different players?
October 18th, 2011 at 6:21 amEric,
October 18th, 2011 at 9:17 amThe Note to Rule 13-4 permits you to touch grass, bush, tree or other growing things in the hazard without penalty. This is not a subjective issue. The player is still penalized if the actions violate Rule 13-2.
I have a ball in play next to an OB fence and behind a pole that is inside the OB fence holding up a net above the OB fence. Both the fence and the pole interfere with the golf swing. I know you do not get relief from an OB fence but what about the pole holding up a net above the OB fence?
October 18th, 2011 at 10:27 amTim,
October 18th, 2011 at 11:02 amIf the pole is not marking the out of bounds, the pole is an obstruction by definition and you are entitled to relief as prescribed in Rule 24-2. Also see Decision 24-2b/6.
In the course that I play, the cart path goes over a creek. A golfer plays his approach shot to the green but slices that the ball hits the edge of the cart by the green and dribbles down until the ball stops rolling on the middle of the path just where it crosses the creek. Both sides of the cart path going back to the green is considered part of the creek’s banks and is vegetated. How does the golfer drop to get relief?
October 20th, 2011 at 5:17 pmJuanita,
October 21st, 2011 at 8:09 amFrom you description, it seems that the cart path is inside a water hazard. The player would not be entitled to relief from the cart path. The player may either play the ball as it lies or proceed under the options prescribed in Rule 26. If, for some reason, the cart path is not considered in the hazard, the player would determine the nearest point of relief and drop within one club-length of that spot as prescribed in Rule 24-2. it may require a drop in the vegitation. The nearest point of relief is not the “nicest” pooint of releif. The player should always consider where they may have to drop prior to picking up the ball.
I drove my ball into a fairway bunker. It is clearly a bunker, but very poorly maintained and there are small patches of grass growing within it. I do not ground my club, but in the process of my back swing, I graze my club on the top of one of these clumps of grass, continue my stroke and hit the ball. What is the penalty if any?
October 21st, 2011 at 2:54 pmErik,
There is no penalty.
The Note to Rule 13-4 allows you to touch with a club or otherwise, any obstuction, any construction decalared by the committee to be an integral part of the course or any grass, bush,or any other growing thing when your ball lies in a bunker or water hazard.
October 21st, 2011 at 7:02 pmA player hits his shot into a deep greenside bunker. He enters the bunker with his club and the rake. He places the rake in the sand behind himself and proceeds to hit the bunker shot. Failing to get out with his first shot, he returns to the rake and taps his club on the rake saeveral times to remove excess sand from the club face. Does he receive a penalty for striking the rake, which he placed in the bunker, with his club.
October 23rd, 2011 at 4:34 pmThank you.
Ken,
October 24th, 2011 at 10:55 amThere is no penalty. The players actions did not do anything that would constitute testing the condition of the bunker. See exception 1 to Rule 13-4 and Decision 13-4/0.5.
In a greensomes foursomes match play game a player from one pairing lifted his ball from the semi-rough and proceeded to clean it.(Local Rules permitted lifting and cleaning a plugged ball in the rough and Preferred Lies were in force)
October 25th, 2011 at 8:02 amThe opposing pair claimed the hole.
What is the ruling?
Again, a greensomes foursomes match-play game; all players (playersA/B and players C/D)have teed off. Player A/B decide to play A,s ball from the fairway and lift B’s which is in the rough.
Players C/D are in a similar situation with C’s in the fairway but with a longer drive D’s is in the rough. On inspection to see which ball to play they realise that their opponents have picked up the wrong ball when they lifted from the rough.
What is the ruling
October 25th, 2011 at 8:20 amCarol,
October 25th, 2011 at 8:42 amIf the ball was embedded, there is no penalty for lifting and cleaning the ball since the Local Rule was in effect. The claim should be denied and the result of the hole should stand. If the ball was not embedded, the player would receive a one stroke penalty under Rule 21. The player is required to replace the ball, otherwise it is a loss of hole penalty under Rule 18-2a.
Carol,
October 25th, 2011 at 8:44 amI am confused on who lifted which ball. See Rule 18 for moving a ball in play.
With the new rules changes regarding a ball moved by the wind after the club has been grounded on the green, what would be the ruling if after addressing the ball on the green, the ball is moved by the wind and then is stopped or deflected slightly by the head of the putter?
October 25th, 2011 at 4:00 pmRyan,
Apologies, I did not explain clearly.
Players C/D had to play first and decided to play C’s ball – they lifted what they believed to be Player D’s ball from the rough.
When Players A/B approached their balls to decide which to play it was realised that B’s ball had in fact been lifted by C/D
October 26th, 2011 at 3:14 amEd,
The revised decision 18-2b/12 adresses this issue.
18-2b/12
October 26th, 2011 at 8:06 amBall Moves After Address and Is Stopped by Player’s Club
Q. After a player addresses his ball, the ball moves backward. Before the player can remove his club, the ball is stopped by the clubhead. What is theruling?
A. The player incurs a penalty stroke under Rule 18-2b and the ball must be replaced. A further penalty under Rule 19-2 (Ball in Motion Deflected or Stopped by Player) does not apply in these circumstances, as the act of his clubhead stopping the ball was related to the initial act of his ball moving after address – see Principle 4 of Decision 1-4/12. If it is known or virtually certain that the player did not cause the ball to move, Rule 18-2b does not apply (see Exception to Rule 18-2b). In such circumstances, the player would incur a one-stroke penalty under Rule 19-2 for accidentally deflecting or stopping his ball in motion with his equipment,and must play the ball as it lies. (Revised)
Carol,
October 26th, 2011 at 8:08 amSince this is match play. The team C/D receive a one stroke penalty under Rule 18-3 for lifting an opponents ball without authority.
Just a few minutes ago during the Asia Pacific Classic, Jeff Overton hit his putt to the hole and it hung on the lip. The announcers said he has 10 seconds to wait for it to drop. During this time they also stated that, as he was walking around the ball, they also said that he must also make sure to let his shadow cross the ball as this would be interference. Is this true…his shadow?
October 28th, 2011 at 3:07 pmMichael,
October 29th, 2011 at 9:55 amCasting a shadow on the ball is not a penalty. See Decision 16-2/3.
With the 2012 rules in mind would there be a penalty if a player whose ball is in one greenside bunker raked the sand in another bunker that was on the opposite side of the green? He could say he was tidying up the course, but he probably was making sure he had a good lie should his shot from the first bunker end up in the other one.
November 2nd, 2011 at 6:27 pmRuling?
Under the new rule, if a player addresses his ball on the green and the wind starts it moving and it rolls into a water hazzard in front of the green, what are the options.
November 3rd, 2011 at 6:22 amDrew,
November 3rd, 2011 at 7:13 amIt is my understanding that if a player is raking a bunker for the sole purpose of caring for the course, he will not be penalized. If the player is raking the bunker for the purpopse of influencing the lie of the ball for his subsequent stroke, the player is in breach of Rule 1-2 for taking action with the intent to affect the playing of the hole by altering the physical conditions.
Ed,
November 3rd, 2011 at 7:19 amUnder the 2012 Rules of Golf, if the ball is moved by wind after the player has addressed it, the ball is to be played from where it came to rest without penalty. If it rolls into a water hazard, the player would proceed under the options prescribed in Rule 26. If it is a water hazard, he may elect to drop behind the hazard or return to where he last played a stroke and drop a ball at that spot under stroke and distance.
a players ball comes to rest inside a burrowing animal hole that is next to a lateral hazard. the ball is also resting on the side of a man made bridge crossing the hazard the burrowing hole is out side the hazard but the ball is resting on the side of the bridge that is marked with red paint. if it had not been for the burrowing hole the ball could have been hit.
thanks for your help
November 7th, 2011 at 12:09 pmMike,
November 7th, 2011 at 12:32 pmDecision 26/1.5 states that the ball is deemed to lie in the water hazard and the player must proceed under his options as prescribed in Rule 26 (Water Hazards). He is not entitled to relief under Rule 25 (Abnormal Ground Conditions).
Is the new decisions book available yet?
November 13th, 2011 at 9:57 amDrew,
November 13th, 2011 at 8:37 pmThe 2012-2015 Rules of Golf and 2012-2013 Decisions on The Rules of Golf will be available after the first of December.
A player in a tournament playing in a foursome with other competitors is using a yardage measuring device. If one of the other players in the group asks him for yardage obtained by the device, is he bound by rule to do so? Or is giving yardage from your device to an opponent optional?
November 14th, 2011 at 10:38 amDarrel,
November 14th, 2011 at 11:10 amA player is permitted to share distance information with fellow competitors without penalty per Rule 8-1. However, He is not required to do so.
A follow up to Darrel’s question. What penalty would be assessed if it were determined that a player who had ZUVAa distance device intentionally gave wrong distances to his fellow competitors for any reason?
November 17th, 2011 at 8:57 amDrew,
November 17th, 2011 at 11:18 amThis issue is not specifically addressed in the Rules of Golf. However, Decision 8-1/9 penalizes a player that purposely makes a false statement about the club he hit to mislead his fellow-competitor. He was penalized two strokes for doing so, under Rule 8-1. I think the same principle would apply. Additionally, The Committee may consider this a serious breach of etiquette and disqualify the player under Rule 33-7.
Concerning “Standing Astride or on Line of Putt”: A player putts through-the-legs (aka “croquet-style”) but lifts one foot of the ground before he makes the “stroke”. Is this legal?
November 17th, 2011 at 4:26 pmThomas,
November 18th, 2011 at 9:48 amBy definition, the player has taken his stance and that stance is on the extension of line of putt behind the ball. The player would be penalized two strokes in stroke play or a loss of hole in match play for violation of Rule 16-1e. Unless, it was done inadvertently or done to avoid standing on another players line of putt.
In a recent “buddies” event, one of the players was on the green. He made 3 practice strokes with his putter, and as he was ADDRESSING the ball the putter head caused the ball to move (this is different than the ball moving AFTER the player ADDRESSED the ball). What is the penalty, if any, for both stroke play and match play formats? And how do we proceed–replace ball at original position or play it from the new position?)
November 20th, 2011 at 2:38 pmJohn,
November 21st, 2011 at 9:02 amRule 18-2 applies and the player incurs a one stroke penalty in both match play and stroke play. The ball must be replaced.
Mr. “Rules Expert” (used quite loosely),
What is the ruling? It occurs after the player arrives at his tee shot on hole #11.
A player has interference with a cart path and drops a ball under R 24-2. The ball rolls into a condition covered by R 20-2c. He re-drops and the ball rolls, again, into a condition covered by R 20-2c. R 20-2c reads that the player is to place the ball as near as possible to the spot where it first struck a part of the course when re-dropped. What happens if the player doesn’t know the spot and thinks he should drop it as per R 20-3c rather than places the ball as required. Most players, if they don’t know the spot, will drop it rather than place it. This comes to the attention of the Committee when the player is putting out on #11.
Sincerely,
The Big Bamboo
November 21st, 2011 at 3:16 pmBig Bamboo,
November 21st, 2011 at 5:00 pmThe player incurs a penalty of loss of hole in match play or two strokes in stroke play for playing from the wrong place (Rule 20-2c and Rule 20-7), but there is no additional penalty in stroke play for dropping the ball when Rule 20-2c required it to be placed.
Thank you. However, if the player says he was operating under R 20-3c how can he be penalized? He doesn’t know that exact spot. Does it read anywhere in the book that R 20-2c supersedes 20-3c?
Cheers,
Big Bamboo
November 24th, 2011 at 5:55 amA player’s momentarily excellent tee shot caroms off an overhead power line (virtual certainty) and ends up out of bounds. The player and the other members of the group are not sure if a local rule is in effect which would cancel the shot and require a second tee shot without penalty. Which of the following is the correct procedure?
November 24th, 2011 at 11:51 am1. Without saying anything the player again hits from the tee. When he gets to the green he says that there may be a local rule that allows the second shot to be without penalty and he will find out when he gets done with the round.
2. The player, not sure of procedure, says he will play two balls under 3-3, one for a cancelled shot because of the wire, one for an OB ball if the rule is not in effect.
3. The player, not sure of procedure, says he wants a ruling under 3-3 but will play just one second tee shot since both balls would be played from the same place and he will get a ruling after the round.
(I think all three are ok???)
Big Bamboo,
November 25th, 2011 at 7:52 amThe player is operating under Rule 20-2c when he re-drops. The procedure requires the ball to be placed as near as possible. The fact that the player did not know the spot does not let him drop a third time. See Decision 2-2c/2.
Drew,
November 25th, 2011 at 8:05 amI agree with you. The player could do all three options without being penalized.
Under the new rules for next year, am I reading Rule 12 correctly when it says a player who is searching for his ball in a hazard or through the green and the ball happens to be buried in a pile of leaves, that the player gets a one stroke penalty if the ball should be caused to move during the search? Other than don’t hit the ball there, how is a player to proceed to search for his ball that is almost certainly in a pile of leaves?
November 27th, 2011 at 10:27 amEd,
November 28th, 2011 at 9:35 amThe player may move as many leaves that will allow him to see a ball. Once a ball is found, the player may use the procedure outlined in Rule 12-2 for identification. The Rule was changed to be the same procedure for a ball that lies through the green.The player just needs to be careful when moving loose impediments when searching for his ball in a hazard as he would be when searching for his ball through the green.
Hi again,
November 28th, 2011 at 10:37 amJust to be sure I’ve got it right: the new rule takes away the no penalty sentence for moving the ball when probing for a ball believed to be covered by loose impediments. Probing and moving is ok only when the ball is believed to buried in sand. Is that correct?
Ed,
November 28th, 2011 at 10:55 amIf the player moves the ball while moving loose impediments in a hazard while searching he will incur a one stroke penalty under Rule 18-2. You are correct, there is no penalty for causing the ball to move if searching for the ball covered by sand anywhere on the course. The lie must be re-created. Also, the player is not penalized if the ball is moved when probing in water in a water hazard.
Decision 13-2/8 Players Lie or Line of Play Affected by Pitch Mark Made by Partner’s Opponent’s or Fellow-Competitor’s Ball
Q. A player’s lie or line of play through the green is affected by a pitch-mark made by his partner’s, his opponent’s or a fellow competitor’s ball . Is the player entitled to relief?
A. If the pitch-mark was there before the player’s ball came to rest, he is not entitled to relief without penalty. If the pitch-mark was created after the player’s ball came to rest, in equity (rule 1-4), he may repair the pitch-mark. A player is entitled to the lie which his stroke gave him.
Does this apply to a ball not on the green (through the green)but the pitch mark is on the green (not through the green)?
In other words if my ball is in the fringe, fairway, or rough, can I fix a pitch mark on the green before I chip to the green?
December 1st, 2011 at 4:51 pmDan,
December 2nd, 2011 at 9:30 amYou may always fix a ball mark or old hole plug on the putting green regardless if your ball is on the green (Rule 16-1c). You are not allowed to fix ball marks that are through the green when your ball lies through the green unless they were created after your ball had come to rest per Decision 13-2/8.
My ball was in a lateral hazard but when taking a normal stance my left foot was on the cart path that ran parallel to the hazard. I played the ball as it lied, but was I entitled to drop the ball within the hazard to get relief from the path?
December 5th, 2011 at 9:31 amJohn,
December 5th, 2011 at 10:07 amRule 24-2b states that when your ball lies in a water hazard or lateral water hazard you are not entitled to releif for an immovable obstruction.
I need help on a ruling! In a recent tournament I found a broken tee on a par three and teed my ball on it. My opponent said I just incurred a two sroke penalty for playing with equipment I did not bring to the first tee. Is this true? If so, can I not rent a cart for the back nine only? Is there no “equity” in the game? Please respond.
December 5th, 2011 at 5:24 pmDavid Webster
slodavidpaso@aol.com
David,
December 5th, 2011 at 5:36 pmA tee is not considered equipment in the Rules of Golf. See definition of equipment. Also, a player may borrow or use another player’s equipment(ie, towel, cart, etc). However, they are not permitted to use another player’s clubs (Rule 4). Decision 5-1/5 states that a player may borrow golf balls from another player.
I was playing on a hole that had a lateral hazard along the left side for half the the hole and then it turns to a white stake (OB) for the remainder of the hole along the left side. Obviously, I had a shot that went left. The question is what is my penalty. My ball appeared to have flown into the hazard above the red stake line, yet there’s no doubt that it ended up in the junk perpendicular to the white staked area. The ball could not be found. There was some disagreement between our foursome of how I would proceed. Should it be considered a lateral hazard, because it’s where the ball first crossed the hazard? Please tell me that’s what it is, because that’s how I played it. Thanks.
December 7th, 2011 at 11:03 amJeff,
You may drop from the lateral water hazard if you have knowledge or virtual certainty that the ball is lost in the hazard (Rule 26-1). If the ball may be lost or out of bounds you must proceed under stroke and distance (Rule 27-1). Also see Decision 26-1/7.
From you description, it sounds like the ball was lost out of bounds and that you have dropped and played from a wrong place. Most likely a serious breach of Rule 20-7. The penalty is disqualification.
December 8th, 2011 at 9:30 amDec. 13-2/2 allows a player to eliminate irregularities of the surface whether or not the ball in in play. So, I assume, if a player hit a shot that somehow caromed off a tree or bench and ended up back on the teeing ground the player could press down the grass, etc. before playing his next shot from practically the same place. Correct? Now what if a player is playing hole #2 and ends up on tee box #3, is it still ok to remove irregularities, etc?
December 8th, 2011 at 11:06 amEd,
December 8th, 2011 at 11:19 amThere is only one teeing ground during the play of a hole. Other teeing grounds are considered through the green. No, you would not be able to eliminate irregularities of surface on another teeing ground.
With the changes to Rule 18 is it now penalty free to make a stroke at a ball that is moving after the swing has started and completed assuming the player was not responsible for the movement of the ball?
December 18th, 2011 at 3:35 pmEd,
December 19th, 2011 at 11:28 amIf it is known that the player did not cause the ball to move, the player would not be penalized. The ball would be played from where it came to rest. For example, a big gust of wind moved the ball at the time the player began his stroke. See Decision 18-2b/11.
I skull a wedge over the green and it hits the cart I’m sharing with my partner in a 4-ball game. The cart is moving. If (a) my partner or (b) someone on the other team is driving the cart is there a penalty in either situation?
December 23rd, 2011 at 7:22 pmDrew,
December 25th, 2011 at 6:29 amIf the cart is moving and your partner is driving, Rule 19-2 applies. It is a one stroke penalty and you must play the ball as it lies. In stroke play if you ball strikes the moving cart driven by a fellow-competitor Rule 19-1 applies. There is no penalty and the ball is played as it lies.
If you are playing a skin’s game on a course with temporary greens; should strokes be given on said holes that are temporary, as the integrity of the hole has been comprimised? Those that receive say they should; as the hole is the same for all players, other state that the hole is considerably easier and no strokes should be given. Also, should all putts be hole out on temporary greens?
Hoping to stop the whinning….
December 25th, 2011 at 9:48 amIf I am in the center of a fairway, and suddenly a spinkler near my ball turns on, am I required to stand in the cold and wet and hit my ball, or can I get relief from the sprinkler spray?
December 27th, 2011 at 4:41 pmSteve, thank you for your comment. The bottom line is that the club has the final say on the ranking of the holes. And if some temporary tees and/or greens are going to be in use for an extended period of time and they do seriously impact the play of some holes, the club could/should certainly consider altering their ranking. As to your second question, we try to break down temporary greens as follows: if the greens are in good enough shape to support the Rules of Golf (i.e., putting out), we issue temporary ratings to the course to reflect the lost yardage. If the principles of Rules of Golf cannot be supported (i.e., auto two-putts), we say ignore your actual score for such holes and instead insert a score of “par, plus any handicap strokes” you are entitled to on the hole. Under such circumstances you could still post to the normal ratings. Thanks again – Jim Cowan, Director of Course Rating and Handicapping
December 29th, 2011 at 10:31 amThis happened in a high school tournament. Player A and Player B have both reached the green in a medal play tournament. Player A is away and is first to putt. Player B marks his ball which happens to be on the opposite side of the hole from Player A. Player A strikes his putt. While the ball is in motion and rolling towards the hole, Player B replaces his ball and removes his mark. Player A’s ball rolls past the hole and strikes Player B’s ball. Is there a penalty? If so, who gets it and why? None of the rules or decisions I found seemed to directly deal with this. Thanks.
January 2nd, 2012 at 12:57 pmPat, Your answer answer lies in Decision 16-1b/3:
Ball Lifted from Putting Green; Ball Replaced While Another Ball in Motion Subsequently Deflects Ball
Q.A’s ball comes to rest on the putting green 20 feet from the hole. He marks the position of and lifts his ball so that B, whose ball is also on the putting green, but farther from the hole, can play first. While B’s ball is in motion, A replaces his ball. B’s ball strikes A’s ball. What is the ruling?
A.If A’s action was unintentional (i.e., not for the purpose of deflecting B’s ball), Rule 19-5a applies. There is no penalty to either player since A had lifted his ball and it was not lying on the putting green immediately prior to B’s stroke. A must replace his ball, and B must play his ball as it lies.
January 2nd, 2012 at 2:12 pmIf A’s action was for the purpose of deflecting B’s ball, A is in breach of Rule 1-2 (Exerting Influence on Movement of Ball or Altering Physical Conditions). The penalty is loss of hole in match play or two strokes in stroke play, unless the Committee decides to impose a penalty of disqualification – see the penalty statement under Rule 1-2. In stroke play, B must replay his stroke, without penalty – see Note under Rule 19-1. Rule 16-1b does not apply as this Rule deals with the lifting of a ball on a putting green, but not its placement. (Revised)
Jason,
January 2nd, 2012 at 2:24 pmUnfortunately, you are not entitled to relief from the spray from a sprinkler. If there is enough accumulation of water for there to be casual water, you would be entitled to relief as prescribed in Rule 25-1. Otherwise, you must play the ball as it lies.
A par five has a long defined bunker running down the right hand side of the fairway. The right hand side of the bunker slopes gently into a lake (lateral water hazard) with no clear definition between the bunker and the lake other than red stakes to define the margin of the water hazard. Player hits his second shot over the bunker and into the lake. Assuimg that the player can’t play the ball from the lake must he drop into the bunker (another hazard) or take stroke and distance or may he cross the bunker going no closer to the hole and make his drop. The lake is too wide to take the option of going to the other side of the lake keeping the point of entry between the player and the hole. Thanks!
January 5th, 2012 at 11:43 pmPlayer A hits the ball to the green on a par three from the tee box landing 3 ft. from the hole. Arriving at the green player a picks up his ball without marking it and puts it in his pocket. Player b,c,d, and e finish the hole. Player a discovers he did not mark his ball but wants to take one stroke and place it where he thinks it was on the green. What is the rule on this?
January 6th, 2012 at 8:09 amThanks
Mike,
January 6th, 2012 at 8:52 amThe player may elect to drop the ball in the bunker wihin two club-lengths from where it last crossed the margin of the lateral water hazard or proceed under Rule 26-1a and play a ball as nearly as possible at the spot from which the original ball was last played. Decision 33-8/37.5 allows a Committee to establish a dropping zone or a series of dropping zones on the fairway side of the bunker so players do not have to drop a ball in the bunker.
Don,
January 6th, 2012 at 8:55 amThe player has incured a one stroke penalty under Rule 20-1 and is required to place the ball back at the spot from which it was lifted.