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My index is 11.9 , however I wanted to see if using the formula for calulating an index is correct by using an example. see below
July 12th, 2010 at 12:50 pmcourse slope is 126 and course rating is 66.7. My handicape based on the chart is 13. Course handicap is 70 so if I shot an 83 I would be shotting par. To calulate my index 83 minus 66.7 16.3 times 113 =1841.9 divided by 130 = 14.1 times 96% = 13.6 Why don’t I get 11.9? What am i doing wrong?
David, thank you for your comment. You are making the same mistake that many others do . . . you are comparing your net scores to par. This is wrong (I blame television coverage for this). You need to compare your net scores to the Course Rating of the tees being played to gauge how you played in relationship to your handicap, not par. In effect, the 13 Course Handicap you are issued for these tees is telling you how many strokes above the Course Rating you need to score in order to play to your handicap that day. In this case, 80 would be the target score. 80 – 66.7 = 13.3 x 113 = 1502.9 / 126 = 11.9. If you had 10 scores of 80 from these tees and they represented your best 10 of 20 most recent rounds, you would be issued a Handicap Index of 11.4. I hope this answers your question. Thanks again – Jim Cowan
July 12th, 2010 at 1:32 pmIF A WOMEN MEMBER IS 1 HDCP (OR LESS than an 18) wouldn’t it more realistic to have them tee up with the men and not from the ‘reds’
July 15th, 2010 at 8:16 pmKram- Anyone can post from any tee that is rated for them. Women who are a 1 handicap probably already play from a longer tee, and the handicap system accommodates them if they are playing against men or even women playing from a shorter tee – see this article: http://www.ncga.org/2007/06/18/competing-from-different-sets-of-tees/
July 15th, 2010 at 8:27 pmI am a high handicap golfer 35.8 sometimes I get a 9 or 10 on a hole how many strokes am I allowed to post on my score on an individual hole.
July 15th, 2010 at 8:28 pmPeter – You can post a 9, see Equitable Stroke Control – http://www.ncga.org/your-handicap/equitable-stroke-control/
July 15th, 2010 at 8:30 pmMy index was 16.1 on July 1, but was 17.8 on July 15. I’m surprised that it jumped almost 2 points. Since I can’t get to any historical data, and I didn’t save the last report, can you enlighten me as to how this can happen?
July 15th, 2010 at 9:10 pmHelen – In the green box on the homepage, input your NCGA/GHIN number and check your record for the scores that were posted between July 1 and 15. That might indicate how your index changed. Thanks,
July 15th, 2010 at 10:32 pmI need the method to repost a score from Sat. 7/17; I made a two stroke error…Could you direct me…? Thanks, MV
July 19th, 2010 at 10:07 amMark – You will need to contact your club. They have the necessary software to perform any such score corrections/deletions. Thanks – Jim Cowan
July 19th, 2010 at 2:21 pmI was reading the Equitable Stroke Control page and was wondering;
A: How can I get my “course handicap” ready for a round so I know what my ESC will be for that round?
B: If I am a 10 cap and get an 8 on a given hole, I post it as a 7 because thats the highest I can take? Or does the system do it automatically when I post my score?
Thank you
July 21st, 2010 at 7:22 amRon – Thank you for your comment. You need to consult with the Course Handicap Table (Slope Table) for the tees you are about to play before teeing off to determine your Course Handicap that round. Most courses display these tables in easy-to-find locations. Or, you can scout out the Slope Rating via our website in advance and utilize the available Course Handicap Calculator in the Handicap section of our site. When you are a 9 or below, you will be limited to the posting of a double-bogey. When you are a 10 or above, you are limited to a hole score of 7. In your example, if you shot an 80 with an 8 on a hole, you would post the round as a 79 for handicapping purpose. You calculate this, it is not done for you. Thanks – Jim Cowan
July 21st, 2010 at 9:55 amI have 2 tournament scores from June,09 and July 15,09 as part of my handicap calculation for my index. When does the previous years scores drop off so they are not used in the calculation? Following 2 injuries I cannot play to my previous index which effects the ability to compete fairly.
July 21st, 2010 at 8:42 pmWhat triggers an “R” next to your index? Does it matter how long between “T” scores, like if one was this year, and one the next, could that still trigger the “R”? thanks.
July 21st, 2010 at 10:24 pmDan – thank you for your comment. Generally speaking, handicaps are based on a golfer’s best 10 of 20 most recent rounds. If a golfer plays everyday, the handicap will be based on scores from the last month. If a golfer plays twice a year, the handicap will be based on scores that could be almost a decade old. Thanks – Jim Cowan
July 22nd, 2010 at 9:03 amMatt – thank you for your comment. The goal of the Handicap System is to issue a Handicap Index which best describes a golfer’s “potential” ability. “Potential,” for these purposes, is measured by a review of a golfer’s best 10 of 20 most recent rounds AND by a review of their two best Tournament scores of the past twelve months. Basically the System examines the size of the “gap” between the best 10 of 20 number and the average of the two T-scores. If the System feels the gap is too wide, an automatic reduction to the best 10 of 20 number kicks in. This is how every handicap in the entire country is computed. The T-scores themselves can be almost a year apart, but bear in mind that such rounds will not overlap for long. For example, if one of the rounds was recorded late last July (and the golfer posts more than 20 rounds per year), it will no longer be a factor when the August 1st handicaps are issued. Thanks – Jim Cowan
July 22nd, 2010 at 9:20 amI have occassionally found that the course rating and slope at a golf course (from scorecard) can differ from the slope and rating when posted on the computer. Which is correct? Which should be used for handicap purposes?
July 22nd, 2010 at 11:18 amDave – thank you for your comment. Use the ratings appearing on the computer or appearing when you go to post an internet score. We rate about 70-80 courses per year. A course isn’t going to throw out their inventory of cards when the new ratings are issued. They will almost certainly use up their old stock before ordering new ones with the new ratings. Thanks – Jim Cowan
July 22nd, 2010 at 1:22 pmHow do I correct a score? I inadvertently entered an incorrect score and would like to have it fixed.
July 22nd, 2010 at 1:32 pmTom – You will need to contact your club. They have the necessary software to perform any such score corrections/deletions and are the only ones authorized to do so. Thanks
July 22nd, 2010 at 1:33 pmThe tournament director of our local senior golf club is adamant that we should stick with the 1st of the month handicap indexes for the entire month, even though many of us play so often that our indexes can change by 1, 2 0r 3 strokes between the 1st and the 15th.
Do you have any words of wisdom for us to use in convincing both him and our board of directors that this needs to be changed?
July 22nd, 2010 at 2:22 pmWhat does an “R” next to an index indicate? Restricted? Reduced? And what exactly does it mean for regular and tournament play? Thanks.
July 22nd, 2010 at 9:35 pmWayne – Thank you for your comment. The handicaps issued on the 15th are every bit as “official” as those that come out on the 1st. And by 2012, every handicap in the entire country will be revised on the 1st and 15th. It’s certainly a more timely handicap and hopefully more accurate for high volume golfers. Good luck – Jim Cowan
July 23rd, 2010 at 6:48 pmWoody – thank you for your comment. The R means Reduced and it is treated like any other handicap, meaning it is intended for regular and tournament play. It’s the only handicap a golfer has, so what else can they use? See the response to Matt above for details. Thanks – Jim Cowan
July 23rd, 2010 at 6:52 pmThanks, Jim, but what does “reduced” actually mean? How is the handicap reduced? Based on what? Is this process/procedure spelled out somewhere? Thanks.
July 24th, 2010 at 6:13 pmWoody – it means that the best 10 of 20 “number” has been reduced. In other words, the Handicap Index has been placed somewhere between the best 10 of 20 number and the average of the two low T-scores. The size of the reduction varies depending on the size of the “gap” I referenced in Matt’s response, while weighing the total number of tournament scores credited to a golfer within the past year. Follow this link and advance to Section 10-3 for the math. Thanks – Jim Cowan
http://www.usga.org/Rule-Books/Handicap-System-Manual/Rule-10/
July 27th, 2010 at 4:14 pmIn a “net match play tournament should strokes be taken where they fall or should the low guy get none and the opponent get the difference?
July 29th, 2010 at 8:36 amTheodore – thanks for your comment. It’s the latter. If a 14 plays a 16, the 16 receives a stroke on the #1 and #2 allocated holes. Jim Cowan
July 29th, 2010 at 11:03 amIs this a postable score ? My buddies and I play a steady game every Sunday using both net and gross scores. Putt everything out, no mullies Etc. After shooting a career round low,and putting my clubs in my trunk my stomach sinks. Usually I have an extra wedge in my car, but I had just had my clubs regripped–so I had carried 15 clubs all day…quickly forfeited my winnings back to my boys for the violation. Do I post ?
July 30th, 2010 at 5:27 pmJimmy – thank you for your comment. The score is very much postable. Under the Rules of Golf, carrying more than 14 clubs results in a two-stroke penalty per hole, with a maximum of four strokes per round. You would add two strokes to your hole score on holes 1 and 2, the rest of the hole scores would remain intact. You are still subject to Equitable Stroke Control, so you would have to see whether these additional strokes on 1 and 2 require adjusting before posting. Thanks again – Jim Cowan
August 2nd, 2010 at 8:42 amOne of my ‘two lowest tournament scores’ is incorrect. How do I get it corrected?
August 13th, 2010 at 9:47 amDon – You will need to contact your club. If they cannot edit it (if it is no longer among your 20 most recent rounds), they will need to contact us to have it changed. Thanks – Jim Cowan
August 13th, 2010 at 10:54 amIn a fourball match play tournament, what is the correct way to adjust for players with different handicaps? Do you use the full handicap differential from the lowest handicap player or do you use only a portion of the differential – like 3/4?
August 16th, 2010 at 1:29 pmMartin – thank you for your comment. Full difference (100%) with the low handicapper playing at scratch. So for a 5 and 9 playing against a 6 and 12, 5 plays at scratch; the 9 receives 4 pops; the 6 gets 1 stroke and the 12 gets seven pops. Thanks again – Jim Cowan
August 16th, 2010 at 2:16 pmI played in the Crystal Springs Invitational last week and shot a 93 both days. I guess the sun and the moon were in alignment or something. Anyway, my index went down from a 27.8 to a 20R. I realize that it went down too fast but just wondered how long that R stays. I have played the last three days and shot much higher, the real Patsy showed up. Guess it was a fluke with the 93′s but I know they stay forever, huh?
August 16th, 2010 at 7:12 pmThanks so much for answering my query.
Patsy – thank you for your comment. See the July 22nd response to Matt for an explanation of how the R is arrived at. There is no way to know how long it will be in place because there are so many moving parts and because it depends on scores that you shoot in the future (best 10 of 20 number changes each revision, total number of T-scores could change, etc.). The T-scores themselves remain eligible for twelve months. Thanks – Jim Cowan
August 17th, 2010 at 4:11 pmWe get this question quite a bit and I would like clarification. In match play where do the handicaps fall? One member is a 5 hdcp and the other is a 12. Does the 5 handicapper get strokes on the 1-5 holes and the 12 gets them on the 1-12 holes OR does the 12 handicapper get 7 strokes on the 1-7 holes? Thank you in advance for your answer. Is there a reference or rule that we could look up?
August 18th, 2010 at 11:29 amVince – thank you for your comment. Please see the responses to Theodore and Martin above. Here is a link to the Section in the USGA Handicap System Manual that covers this. It’s Section 9-4A(i). Thanks again – Jim Cowan
August 18th, 2010 at 7:21 pmhttp://www.usga.org/Rule-Books/Handicap-System-Manual/Rule-09/
I posted an incorrect score by mistake, how can I remove this score?
August 21st, 2010 at 3:12 pmDoyle – Contact the handicap chair of your club. Only they have the authority to make that change. Thanks
August 23rd, 2010 at 8:22 amI am my club’s Handicap Chairperson. We had a player quit the round after playing the 14th hole. For holes 15-18 I applied his course handicap to the remaining holes and posted his score.
His is a 15 handicap. The remaining holes were handicapped as 1, 3, 17, and 11 respectively. I added one stroke to par for 15, 16, and 18. I gave him a par for 17.
My questions is; How many holes does he need to play in order to post a score for the full 18. One of our club members is saying that there is a minimum or I should only count the front 9.
Thank you,
Dennis Arellano
August 29th, 2010 at 1:31 pmDennis, thank you for your comment. If you start at least 7 holes you are required to post a 9-hole score. If you start at least 13 holes you are required to post an 18-hole score (using the method that you employed to fill in the blanks for the unplayed holes). Thanks again – Jim Cowan
August 29th, 2010 at 6:27 pmI am normally about a 12-13 handicap.I got really hot for about a month (mid June-mid July)and my index got down to 8.3. Since then, I have not shot a single round in the 70′s and my trend is about a 14. I am 64 years old and play about five times a week. When the new handicaps came out today (Sept. 1st) I was a 6.8R. Since I can’t break 80, I sure can’t play to a 7 handicap. What does the “R” mean and how long am I stuck with that index? I can’t even play in my usual skins games, let alone any tournaments with that index. Anyone reviewing my index history over the last 12 months would see that this “re-rate” is unfair. Their is nothing “equitable” about it. How can I get this adjusted?
August 31st, 2010 at 10:47 pmKen – thank you for your comment. Several of the comments listed in this section deal with Reduced handicaps and how the System works. Please review the responses to Matt and Woody. Back in June your Handicap Index was a 14.1 and you recorded tournament scores of 79, 77 and 75 (5.5, 6.8 and 9.6 strokes under your handicap at that time) and as recently as July 31st you recorded a 74 in a tournament. Who is to say that you will not do it again? Based on such remarkable scores recorded in competition, the Handicap System is no longer going to afford you the benefit of the doubt. It is going to hold you accountable for these scores in future calculations. Thanks – Jim Cowan
September 1st, 2010 at 9:39 amWhen you look up someones handicap by name, why in some cases do you only see their index and not their 20 scores?
September 1st, 2010 at 11:43 amTom – thank you for your comment. Just click on the golfer’s name and you will be transported to their scoring record. This record will not be as complete if you do not know the golfer’s NCGA/GHIN number (will only display the month, not the day of the rounds; will only display the ratings, not ratings and course name). Thanks – Jim Cowan
September 1st, 2010 at 12:26 pmdear ncga, I had a score posted on the 31st of august and it did not reflect as a round in that time peroid. It shows it as a recent score in sept even though it was played and posted at the club on the 31st. Please explain , Thank you kent
September 1st, 2010 at 3:40 pmKent – Playing and posting are just parts of the process. The club has to transmit your score for it to reflect on the erevision. Sounds like that might not have happened in this case.
September 1st, 2010 at 3:44 pmThis month I posted 3 scores that replaced my lowest differential 3.7 and replaced it with a 7.9. The other two scores did not count. My index went down from a 10.3 to a 10.2R..
2 questions. Why would it go down when the score actually went up?
September 2nd, 2010 at 2:15 pmWhat is the R in my index?
John – thank you for your comment. Several of the comments listed in this section deal with Reduced handicaps and how the System works. Please review the responses to Matt and Woody. The 76 that you recorded in a tournament last Sept is still going to have an influence for a few more weeks. Thanks again – Jim Cowan
September 3rd, 2010 at 10:12 amI broke my wrist a while back. (left wrist, righty player)injury date 6/31, surgery to correct 7/15. The Doctor has advised that I not play until after my next visit 10/4. my club has a tournament on 10/10. on date of injury I was 10.4. How can I get a handicap for the tournament that will resemble my abilities? will I need to play with one hand until 10/4?( prefer not to ) or will I just have to take my lumps for a month or two until it rises to meet my new level of expertise?
September 10th, 2010 at 5:23 pmMark – thank you for your comment. There is a provision within the Handicap System that does account for temporary disabilities meaning that your club can issue you an adjusted Local handicap for use in their own tournaments that takes into account your recent surgery. However, the Handicap Committee at your club cannot just pick a number out of thin air. In order to make an intelligent decision, they need to see you in action a few times in order to gauge how you are playing. I doubt that they can make a reasonable decision in the tiny window of time between the date you are cleared to play and the date of the tournament. Thanks again and good healing – Jim Cowan
September 13th, 2010 at 8:43 amI can’t seem to figure out how my handicap index dropped so much in the last month. (19.8-11.3R) I know that I had ONE Tournament score posted that indexed out to a 8.8 but how can that one score bring all the rest of my score indexes that average about 22 down THAT MUCH.
September 15th, 2010 at 7:18 amI tried calculating by the way the book says ,but never come close to the revised index that’s posted. ( I.E. 10 best average plus two best T index divided by 2 should equal revised score)
Can you help me figure this out
James – thank you for your comment. Your Handicap Index has been reduced due to exceptional tournament scores (T-score differentials of 8.8 and 11.9 in the last five weeks alone). Several of the comments listed in this section deal with Reduced handicaps and how the System works. Please review the responses to Matt and Woody. Thanks again – Jim Cowan
September 15th, 2010 at 8:46 amIn July you responded to KRAM about a women who was a 1 handicap and what tees she should or could play from. In the NCGA Team play competitions this seems to come up when both genders play. Do you think it is equitable to have a women play from longer tees with ratings in the 76 or 77 range when her opponent is playing from tees that are typically rated aroud 71? Yes the women would get 5 or 6 more strokes but it changes the clubs/shots the woman is playing compared to her male opponent who is a similar 1 handicap. Our home course forward tees are rated one stroke higher for women than the 3rd set of tees for men. Not all women 1 or 0 handicaps play well from 6500 yards. Please advise as NCGA team play is for both genders and many clubs have mixed gender events.
September 16th, 2010 at 5:25 pmTeamplay member – thank you for your comment. In standard NCGA stroke play net events we typically have the men play from the Middle tees, the women from Forward. This tends to minimize the difference between the Course Ratings and minimize the handicap adjustment necessary. In Team Play we leave tee selections (for men and women) up to the best judgment of the opposing Captains. In my mind, minimizing the handicap adjustment for different tees should be a major factor in the decision they make. Thanks again – Jim Cowan
September 17th, 2010 at 9:02 amIf a player is competing in a NCGA event after the 15th of the month, is his/hers handicap index adjusted, or….are players based on their index per the 1st of the month?
September 22nd, 2010 at 12:08 amIf you are playing at 90% of course handicap then please advise how it should be done.
September 22nd, 2010 at 6:13 amAt the moment I am doing this way:
Handicap, then course handicap, then 90%.
Someone told me that its handicap, then 90% and then course handicap.
please advise.
Marty – thank you for your comment. In a perfect world all tournaments would use the current handicap for that day. We certainly try to do this for our own events. Sometimes this is not feasible if the date of the tournament is close to the 1st or 15th (not feasible to update handicaps, redo flights, redo cards, etc.). Sometimes we are forced to use a previous revision. Normally tournaments will tell you which revision (1st or 15th) they are using for a particular event. Thanks again – Jim Cowan
September 22nd, 2010 at 1:46 pmRavi – thank you for your e-mail. You always convert the Handicap Index to a Course Handicap and then apply the percentage (among other things, it is a lot easier to apply 90% to a whole number rather than a number that includes decimals). If you have access to a current NCGA or USGA Handicap Manual, page 75 includes a table that breaks down a 80%, 90% and 95% allowance for various Course Handicaps. Thanks again – Jim Cowan
September 22nd, 2010 at 1:50 pmThe computer shows my average score along with the last 20 scores. The average is not of the last 20. How many scores or for what period of time is the average shown?
We used to be able to see our monthly handicap trend over the prior 12 months which was very interesting. Is that gone?
Thanks
October 15th, 2010 at 7:58 amSteve, thank you for your comment. Assuming you play more than 20 rounds per season, the Average Score represents the average of the 20 most recent rounds that are being displayed. As to your second question, with handicaps now updated twice a month, there isn’t room to list the 24 revisions that would go back one year. Thanks again – Jim Cowan
October 15th, 2010 at 4:55 pmI am trying to help a friend who is currently restricted. Where are the tables for handicap restrictions?
Thanks,
Tom
November 13th, 2010 at 9:57 pmTom, thank you for your comment. Here is a link to the section of the USGA Handicap System Manual that covers Reductions. It is Section 10-3. Thanks again – Jim Cowan
http://www.usga.org/Rule-Books/Handicap-System-Manual/Rule-10/
November 15th, 2010 at 9:15 amI had an NCGA Index of 18.8 in 2008. Due to employment issues (extensive travel outside the area) I played very little golf and did not renew my NCGA membership which became inactive at the end of 2008. I will rejoin NCGA thru a new Club for the 2011 membership year. Upon membership renewal does my Index renew at the last reported value? Does my Membership number remain the same?
November 18th, 2010 at 9:31 pmJohn, thank you for your comment. Scoring records are typically “purged” after two years of inactivity. So your number from 2008 may or may not still be around. We have many, many John Martin’s within the NCGA, so the only way to know for sure is for you to e-mail us with your old number or old address or old club (jcowan@ncga.org). We will determine whether the record is still available. If so, you will need to provide it to your new club so that they can reactivate it. Thanks again – Jim Cowan
November 19th, 2010 at 10:12 amHandicap adjustment for playing the forward tees:
We have a weekly tournament and several of the players have lost considerable length over time and would like to play from the forward tees. However, often times the course handicap is the same from either set of tees. We need to know if there is a way to adjust the handicaps that is fair for everyone. Is it as simple as reducing their course handicap by the differential in the course rating? Or better to reduce their index by the difference and then calculate the handicap? Is there another option to add or reduce each players index by the rating differential then calculate course handicap?
Example:
Player A) index 3.2 playing from 6782yds 73.8/142 course hcp 4
Player B) index 7.2 playing from 6241yds 70.8/139 course hcp 8 from either tees (and index earned from playing back)
It also appears that over time there would be little adjustment to their index since it was originally earned from playing the back tees and now from the forward tees in this scenario they would have to score more than 3 shots less to start impacting their index.
Thank you!
November 23rd, 2010 at 4:58 pmFollow up correction: The 7.2 would have 9 handicap from either tee
November 23rd, 2010 at 5:45 pmAfter further research I think I found the answer…can you confirm ;)
November 23rd, 2010 at 5:56 pmhttp://www.ncga.org/handicap/differenttees.php
Dan – thank you for your comment and kudos to those members choosing to play from a set of tees more in line with their game. We can all learn a lesson from their actions. In answer to your question, calculate a Course Handicap for both golfers based upon the Slope Rating of the tees each is about to play. Subtract the rounded difference in the Course Ratings from those playing the shorter tees (.5 rounds up). Or, alternatively, add the difference to those playing the longer tees. To me, you always want to spin off the set of tees that is receiving the most play. In your example, that would mean subtracting three strokes from the shorter tee players if most of the field is playing the 6,782 yard tees, or adding three strokes to the longer tee players if most of the field is playing the 6,241 yard tees. In the long run I would not be surprised if the Handicap Index of those playing the shorter tees come down a little. After all, they have been playing from a set of too tough tees and their scores have suffered accordingly. Now that they are starting to play from a set of tees better suited to their game, their scores may come down a little more than the three stroke difference in Course Ratings would suggest. Thanks again – Jim Cowan
November 23rd, 2010 at 5:58 pmCan the computer at our club give us a list of players ranked by gross and net score at the end of each monthly tournament?
December 8th, 2010 at 11:36 amThanks for your time
Dub Wood
Black Oak Mens Club
Auburn Ca.
Durbin – thank you for your comment. The score posting computer cannot generate such a report in the order that you want. The Tournament Pairings Program that the NCGA provides clubs with can. In fact, it can handle every phase of your tournaments from the pairing of golfers, to the printing of scorecards (with dots on the stroke holes), to the computing of results, to the posting of scores. Hundreds of NCGA clubs use TPP religiously for their tournaments. Thanks again – Jim Cowan
December 8th, 2010 at 12:19 pmThis may have been asked and answered, but here goes. What is the reason for the “L” attached to the trend?
December 16th, 2010 at 3:57 pmBo – thank you for your comment. The “L” means that the number is for Local use only . . . in other words, an unofficial computation. Unofficial because it is not computed/issued on the 1st and 15th and unofficial because it may not include your 20 most recent rounds (i.e., you posted a score yesterday at a golf course and that score has not yet arrived in your record). Thanks again – Jim Cowan
December 16th, 2010 at 4:41 pmI have only posted 5 rounds on my account. It shows NH. So, later today,Dec 17th, I posted a total of 12 scores from previous rounds i have records of.Today is Dec 21st and it still shows NH. How many rounds posted until I receive a rated Handicap? AND, How long does it take to be official on NCGA?-James
December 21st, 2010 at 7:50 pmJames – thank you for your message. The “button” to update handicaps in only “pushed” on the 1st and 15th of each month. You will be issued a Handicap Index on January 1st (your club has the authority to compute a handicap for you for the remainder of this month). Thanks again – Jim Cowan
December 22nd, 2010 at 9:36 amBecause of all the rain we have been forced to play lift, clean and place within one club. This make the game much easier. Should I add 3 or 4 strokes to my gross score before posting. Or, should I just not post while playing winter rules. I want to have a fair handicap that I can shoot in the summer after we start playing it as it lies.
January 6th, 2011 at 5:49 pmJim Pulliam
jim.pulliam@sbcglobal.net
Jim, thank you for your comment. The Handicap System is proactive when it comes to posting scores played under Preferred Lies. That is, the System says the scores shall be posted unless conditions are so poor as to warrant nonposting (and posted to the normal ratings). Only a club can determine whether to suspend all postings . . . an individual cannot make such a determination. The key point is whether the course is playing to its ratings during the winter or not. In the instance that you described the course is no doubt playing longer than normal due to lost roll. If this offsets the improved lies that bumping the ball provides, posting should continue. Thanks again – Jim Cowan
January 10th, 2011 at 9:46 amI just finished the Handicap Certification Seminar (well done seminar by the way), but I had a question as to WHY the number 113 was chosen for normalizing the slope rating of a course. The same effect could be achieved with any number and 100 seems like a much better number to use, especially since the lowest allowable slope rating is 55 and the highest is 155. It sure would be a lot easier to calculate our course handicap the slope rating of golf courses were adjusted to a baseline of 100 instead of 113.
For example, Poppy Hills slope rating from the white tees is 134 under the 113 baseline so my course handicap is 134/113*my_index (134/113 happens to be about 1.19) Under the new system, Poppy Hills would have a slope of rating of 119…so 119/100*my_index
Food for thought, just wondering about the history behind the decision to use 113 as the baseline…any idea?
January 20th, 2011 at 8:13 pmThanks.
How does a golfer post adjusted scores when they don’t yet have a handicap?
January 22nd, 2011 at 6:57 pmTodd – thank you for your comment. At the time the Slope System was created, USGA data indicated that scores go up on average 1.13 strokes per handicap stroke. So 113 was used as the base. Slope is determined by the size of the “gap” between the Scratch Rating (rating for a zero handicapper) and Bogey Rating (rating for a 20 handicapper) for a given set of the tees. The wider the gap, the higher the Slope. On a course of perfect proportionate difficulty, the ratings will be 21 strokes apart (21, not 20, since handicaps are based on 96% of our ten best differentials). 21 times the multiplier of 5.381 equals 113. Thanks again – Jim Cowan
January 24th, 2011 at 11:08 amBob – thank you for your comment. A player without an established Handicap Index must use the maximum Handicap Index of 36.4 for men, or 40.4 for women, converted to a Course Handicap, to determine a maximum ESC number. Thanks again – Jim Cowan
January 24th, 2011 at 11:40 amWhen you are starting to post scores to obtain a handy cap What is the Max. score you can take per Hole?
January 30th, 2011 at 11:25 amFor two tournaments in a row a team of golfers shot a net 57. 1 player plays to a 23 handicap but has shoot 2 consecutive rounds of 87 in these tournaments (par 70 course) what are the oods???, the last round with two eights and a seven (on par4′s) when his partner had a par or bogey on the hole, so for the rest of the course he was only 6 over par. I think he sounds more like a 12 handicap than a 23. In the last tournament prior to this he shot an 89 individual score tourney. Last three tournament rounds 87, 87, and 89!!!
January 31st, 2011 at 8:35 amSam – thank you for your comment. I answered the exact same question a few days back. It is the response directly above your question. Thanks again – Jim Cowan
January 31st, 2011 at 9:20 amDave – thank you for your comment. Here is a link to the USGA-developed Odd’s Table. http://www.usga.org/Rule-Books/Handicap-System-Manual/Appendix-E/ But remember, it is not how many strokes under par the net score is . . . it is how many strokes under their handicap they played. If the Course Rating of the tees played is 67, a net score of 65 means they played about two strokes under their handicap. With a par of 70 I doubt the Course Rating is real high, but if it was and carried a rating of 74, a net score of 65 would represent a round several strokes below the golfer’s handicap (technically you have to compare the differential for the round versus the Handicap Index of the golfer). Hopefully your Handicap Committee will step in if they feel the handicap is out of line. Thanks again – Jim Cowan
January 31st, 2011 at 11:23 amThanks for the opportunity to ask a handicap question. My handicap recently received a revision. I know why. In one of our monthly Men’s Club tournaments I shot the round of my life, a 73. Along with another good round of 80 in another tournament, I have been adjusted to a 10. I was trending to a 13 before this adjustment. I went on line to educate myself about the T adjustment and found the article titled ‘Fit to a T’. I have no problem with the way the adjustment occurred (why try to argue with a computer program). One question in the Q & A section caught my eye. “Should all tournament scores be posted with a T?” I was surprised by the answer. Until I read this answer I was under the impression that all tournaments should be posted as a T. But the NCGA states, no. The NCGA recommends that the T not be applied to routine weekly or monthly events of little significance. Since my 73 fell into this category, I feel my club has not followed NCGA recommendations and possibly my handicap has been adjusted in error. Can you please comment. Thanks.
March 2nd, 2011 at 11:23 pmMike, thank you for your comment. Contrary to popular belief, too many T’s is a bad thing, not a good thing. Too many T’s dilutes the ability of the System to identify those golfers that always seem to save their best play for the most important tournaments. That is why the NCGA (and USGA) recommend that you avoid applying the T to routine weekly or monthly events of little consequence, and instead reserve the T for your more important ones. If the monthly events you are speaking of are considered very important within the culture of your club, by all means the T should be applied to them. If they are not considered all that important or are more social in nature than anything, the T should not be applied. Thanks again – Jim Cowan
March 3rd, 2011 at 6:01 pmI posted an incorrect score. Is there a way to edit it to correct it?
March 4th, 2011 at 4:04 pmDavid – Score changes and deletions must be made by the handicap chair of your club. Contact that person and the score can be changed. Thanks
March 4th, 2011 at 4:27 pmI have a member at my club whom is a excellent golfer. He seems to do very well in all the club tournaments . Over this last weekend we had a NCGA qualifier , I was shocked to learn that he was a 8.4 cap. He is at least 2x better of a player than me and I have a 9.3 cap. Upon venting my frustration about it to other members I learned that this member plays from the tips and posts from the white tees, Since the rating/slope is so different posting a score from the shorter tees makes a 75 a 5.2 instead of the 3.2 it should be. This is another way of “sand bagging” What can I do to stop this? The whole club knows this and nothing gets done.
March 6th, 2011 at 9:52 pmcorrection That 75 from the whits is a 7.2
March 6th, 2011 at 9:53 pmDon – thank you for your comment. Intentionally posting to the wrong rating to inflate a handicap is so contrary to the spirit of the Handicap System that your club should throw the book at him. First of all, he can still be dq’d from your weekend qualifier after the competition has closed under Rule 34-1b for basically playing with a handicap that he knew to be too high. Beyond that, my recommendation would be that your club withdraw his handicap . . . the letters WD would appear each revision for his handicap instead of a number. And good luck playing in a tournament at your club or elsewhere with letters rather than number. Thanks again and good luck – Jim Cowan, Director of Course Rating and Handicapping
March 7th, 2011 at 12:11 pmPlease tell me why I cannot find Arizona and their courses when I want to post a score. This seemed the easiest way to get an answer. DId you guys know that you left Arizona off your post a score list?
March 15th, 2011 at 8:27 amAnyway would like to post several scores just let me know how.
Mark – Since Arizona is not a member of GHIN, the NCGA’s handicap computation service, its courses do not display on the score posting screen.
You can post your scores, but you will need to do it manually using the scorecard as a reference for rating and slope information, or by going to these sites to look the information up:
http://www.azgolf.org/directory_new/index.asp?CategoryID=5&SubCategory=1
(click rating and scorecard tab of the course you’re looking up)
or here
http://ncrdb.usga.org/NCRDB/
March 15th, 2011 at 8:38 amHow many strokes under handicap can a golfer shoot before we question his handicap?
March 16th, 2011 at 7:26 amI just returned from playing golf in New Zealand, all the courses have ratings and slopes, can I post my scores?
March 18th, 2011 at 3:02 pmGenner, thank you for your comment. I don’t know at what point you start questioning the handicap. After all, at some point in time everyone will have their best round of the year/best round of their life. Here is a link to an Odd’s Table that the USGA has developed. It estimates the odds of golfers of different handicap ranges scoring x number of strokes below their Handicap Index for any given round (number of strokes that their differential for the round is lower than their Handicap Index, not number of strokes their net score is under par). Pick a number that sounds big to you. Thanks again – Jim Cowan, Director
http://www.usga.org/Rule-Books/Handicap-System-Manual/Appendix-E/
March 18th, 2011 at 3:03 pmMy NCGA card expired, and I’m looking to re-establish my index. Will my old scores be dropped, or can I rejuvenate my index once I re-activate my GHIN? Thanks.
March 21st, 2011 at 7:09 pmScott – Scores are kept in the GHIN system for up to three years so they should not be dropped as long as you provide your old GHIN number when reactivating your membership. Thanks
March 22nd, 2011 at 9:21 amI have two follow-up questions regarding the Handicap Reduction Table.
March 27th, 2011 at 11:18 amI believe I understand the purpose and intent of logging T scores and Reducing an index based on exceptional T scores.
First: What is the purpose of the “sliding scale” in the reduction table that makes it far less likely for a member with 20 eligible T scores to be reduced that someone who has a long history in GHIN but has only recently decided to play in more tournaments? Is that really fair?
Second: What better guidance can the NCGA give our associate clubs for determining eligible T scores vs an Away score? What can I do as a member of an associate club that records all of their events as a T to convince them that the NCGA indeed does support minimizing the number of T scores for GHIN index purposes and they should be posting a T only for “signifigant” events? For example, in my opinion, any individual low net competition hosted by an associate club that allows the members to choose their foursome playing partners should not be considered as a T event anymore than a social round with the same foursome.
Does GHIN have any plans to enhance the member index page to include a tab with the eligible tournament scores, i.e. in the last 12 months?
Has there been any discussion with NCGA and GHN to create a Tournament index for players with more than 10 eligible T Scores to be used for tournament play only?
March 27th, 2011 at 11:28 amJohn – thank you for your comment. The sliding scale is in place for the simple reason that the more T-scores recorded in a given year, the greater the odds of eventually scoring real well in two of them. In short, to record two low ones out of a pool of only two T-scores deserves a much greater reduction than someone who recorded the same two low T-scores out of a pool of 20 scores . . . it doesn’t get any fairer than that. How long someone has been a member of the NCGA, how old they are, how many tournament scores they posted in previous years has no bearing on the calculation. As for providing guidance to reserving the T for significant events, here is a link to some decisions in the USGA Handicap System Manual on the subject http://www.usga.org/Rule-Books/Handicap-System-Manual/Decision-10/ You can’t beat text right out of the manual. Thanks again – Jim Cowan, Director of Course Rating and Handicapping
March 28th, 2011 at 2:05 pmJJ – thank you for your comment. Your club already has the ability to segregate T-scores from non-T-scores and print them out for you. There are no plans to bring such capabilities to the simple handicap look-up feature. Likewise there are no plans to attempt to create some sort of number based exclusively on T-scores. Such a number would not be an official USGA Handicap Index. Thanks again – Jim Cowan, Director of Course Rating and Handicapping
March 28th, 2011 at 2:11 pmI forgot to designate a score as a T tournament score. Can I change this “after the fact?”
April 1st, 2011 at 6:38 amThomas – Score corrections and deletions must be performed by the handicap chair at your club, so contact that person to get the “T” assigned to your score. Thanks
April 1st, 2011 at 8:36 amTwice in my life I have had an R attached to my handicap, the most recent was the April 1 index. Both times it has been after a spate of higher than normal scores resulting from pain due to a physical disability. When I have gotten my pain level back under control, I have shot better scores. I don’t want people to think I am sandbagging, which is what they do think when they see that R. When I am in pain, I don’t shoot very well, and during the rainy season, when everyones handicaps go up, I shoot worse because the weather increases my pain. Other than just not playing, what can I do to make people understand that these higher scores are going to stay until the pain subsides.
April 1st, 2011 at 10:29 amKelly – thank you for your comment. I don’t know what to tell you other than to be honest with others about the state of your game. It does illustrate why the Reduction process is necessary and how honest golfers, in addition to sandbaggers, can receive an “R.” Consider the alternative if this process did not exist. Your handicap would sky high at this point in the year due to the circumstances that you have described. As the weather improved, your scores would start coming down, along with your handicap, meaning that you would experience an extended period of time where you outperformed your handicap on a regular basis by, perhaps, great margins. This would afford you a tremendous advantage over those you compete against. The R, in effect, caps your handicap on the high end and prevents an unfair advantage from kicking in. Thanks again and good luck with your game -Jim Cowan
April 4th, 2011 at 1:03 pmMy club is interested in the process to assign Tournament Index to players. It seems that a few folks shoot 5 to 6 strokes under their index on a consistent basis. We only designate 2 tournaments a year as T scores.
After attending a recent handicap seminar they mentioned creating a tournament index might be a solution. I guess I’m not sure how many lower then normal scores should garner the tourney index and when should it be removed?
Thanks
April 11th, 2011 at 4:29 pmRay, thank you for your comment. There are no hard and fast rules when it comes to computing a Tournament Handicap “on the side.” Your club is going to have to decide what sort of rules you want to employ, how many scores you are going to consider, how far back these scores go, what formula you use to determine the Tournament Handicap, etc. Most clubs that embark on such a venture track the scores of everybody, not just those that happen to win, and most require a golfer to play to their Tournament Handicap or NCGA/USGA Handicap Index, whichever is lower. They do all this within some sort of spreadsheet of their own making (the GHIN software is not programmed to compute any sort of number other than an official Handicap Index). Thanks again and good luck – Jim Cowan, Director of Course Rating and Handicapping
April 14th, 2011 at 2:02 pmI’m wondering how come my index was on “R” this time. My index trend was 1.6, 2.6, 2.9, 3.3, 3.7, 2.8, 2.6, 2.8, 3.5 and 2.6R (would’ve been 3.9). Please explain it for me. Thank you.
April 15th, 2011 at 11:41 amI’m wondering why my index is “R”. My index trend was 1.6, 2.6, 2.9, 3.3, 3.7, 2.8, 2.6, 2.8, 3.5, 2.9R (would’ve been 3.9). Please explain it for me. Thank you.
April 15th, 2011 at 11:48 amShu Ming Yang – thank you for your comment. Several of the comments above deal with R handicaps. Please refer to them for an overall look at how R-handicaps work. To answer your question, up until this revision the gap between your best 10 of 20 number and your two best T-scores of the past twelve months was not wide enough to warrant a reduction. It is only now that your best 10 of 20 number reached 3.9 that the gap between this number and your two best T-scores of the past twelve months became wide enough for a reduction. Thanks again – Jim Cowan, Director of Course Rating and Handicapping
April 15th, 2011 at 1:23 pmIn a match play, how do we resolve a rule issue if there is no official available? For example, I’m 2 up after 16 and it happens on 17th, it could put me 1 up thru 17 or 2 and 1. Do we continue the match thru 18 and find the official in the pro shop? But what happen if it was earlier in the match, how could we continue the match if we don’t know where we stand and besides the strategy changes as well. thank you.
April 17th, 2011 at 2:49 pmGeorge,
April 18th, 2011 at 11:16 amRule 2-5 states that “In match play, if a doubt or dispute arises between the players, a player may make a claim. If no duly authorized representative of the Committee is available within a reasonable time, the players must continue the match without delay.” You may have to complete the match with two different results and the result will not be official until the claim has been decided upon.
What is the maximum handicap allowed for men?
April 28th, 2011 at 7:08 pmStephen – The maximum index for men is 36.4. That can convert to a course handicap that’s higher depending on the slope rating of the tee you are playing.
April 28th, 2011 at 7:41 pmI recently returned to playing, after 2 months, following hip replacement surgery. My most recent scores reflect my inability to play at my previous level, as I recover. Can this be reflected in my index, or do I simply wait for another month, or so, for my hip to be fully recovered?
May 1st, 2011 at 1:33 pmEd – thank you for your comment. The Handicap System does include some relief for a golfer with a temporary disability. Basically you need to bring the matter to your club. They have the authority to issue you a temporary Local Handicap based upon your play since the replacement. Thanks again and best of luck for a full recovery. Jim Cowan, Director of Course Rating and Handicapping
May 2nd, 2011 at 8:49 amJim,
It is Tournament season again at my private Golf club here in Carmel Valley “Quail Lodge”. Our Board and Handicap chairman is inplementing a “Quail Lodge Tournament Play Handicap” outside of our computed USGA index.
Is this acceptable practice for an NCGA member club to do this vs simply changing players handicaps under 10-3 for the benefit of the entire golfing population and annotating the Index with an “R”?
The method being used is:
**Methodology**
You have a total of 11 “T” scores, of which we are using your 4 lowest Differential Scores associated with the actual scores. They are averaged, then multiplied by .96, giving us a new index that is converted to a handicap number.
As you add additional “T” scores, we will use more of the lowest “Differentials” available until we reach 20 scores and 10 Differentials scores.
May 5th, 2011 at 2:56 pmI just posted my very first score, but accidentally didn’t select the name of somebody else I played this round with, who is in my Eclub. He selected my name from the list when he posted his score for this round, but I didn’t select his name when I posted mine for the same round. Does it matter? Why does it ask for this information?
May 6th, 2011 at 4:28 pmColin, thank you for your comment. Your club can choose to run your own tournaments in any manner that they like . . . by the Rules of Golf or not; with USGA/NCGA handicaps or not, etc. Many clubs have chosen to calculate a tournament handicap “on the side” for their own events. When they do this, they calculate them in a manner that makes best sense to them . . . the normal rules of handicapping do not have to apply. Based upon your knowledge of how they are going to conduct their tournaments, you can either accept their conditions of play or choose not to participate. Thanks again – Jim Cowan, Director of Course Rating and Handicapping
May 8th, 2011 at 5:00 pmNick, thank you for your comment. Not selecting the name of the golfer you played with is not the end of the world. Just do it next time. The site asks for this information because eClubs represent a fairly new and unique type of club. Instead of a traditional club at a golf course where members play together, or even a club without real estate where the members are known to each other and can confirm each others’ scores, an eClub is, to a certain degree, made up of strangers that get to know each other over time by playing together and playing in club events periodically. Because of the unique nature of such clubs, the USGA Handicap System insists that members play at least three times a year with a fellow member including one round in a club-sponsored event. This, it is felt, will preserve the concept of peer review (the idea of members playing with fellow members and confirming fellow members’ scores and handicaps) and validate the handicaps issued. By indicating who you played with, you are able to confirm that you are in compliance with this requirement. Thanks again and enjoy your membership! Jim Cowan, Director of Course Rating and Handicapping
May 8th, 2011 at 5:10 pmMy name is Dave Mathews and this handicap system is confusing me. It says I need to post 5 rounds to obtain my handicap, and I have 8 in there. My handicap still reads NH however. HELP PLEASE.
May 12th, 2011 at 2:38 pmDave – It appears that your membership has been inactivated by Castlewood. Once you re-join, your handicap should start dispaying again.
May 12th, 2011 at 2:44 pmWhat is the highest course rating in the NCGA? Highest slope?
May 20th, 2011 at 9:59 amJack Persons – thank you for your comment. Sevillano Links in Corning has the highest Men’s Course Rating in No Cal at 78.0 (tees are more than 7,800 yards long). We just re-rated the course, so that number may be changing soon. Mayacama and The Ranch have the highest Men’s Slope Rating in No Cal at 150. Thanks again – Jim Cowan, Director of Course Rating and Handicapping
May 20th, 2011 at 10:25 amHi Jim, two things: I shot a horrific 99 at Poppy Ridge on 5/5 in the NCGA senior net qualifier and it hasn’t been recorded in my scoring history. Also my friend just shot a 75 at Harding Park and his scoring history indicates that he shot that round on 5/11 but he played that round just last Thursday on 5/19. In fact all of his scores show all of his rounds were played on the 11th of March, April and May.
May 21st, 2011 at 8:09 amBrian Scott, thank you for your e-mail. I have contacted our tournament people about your qualifying score. As to your question, when you perform a last name look-up of a golfer’s record, you only receive a limited view of the scoring details. Under this limited view you only get the month/year of the rounds, not the date (the 11 refers to the year). You also do not receive the course name, only the ratings. This limited look is due to privacy concerns of individuals. If you know the number of the individual and perform a look-up, you will receive all the details. Thanks again – Jim Cowan, Director of Course Rating and Handicapping
May 22nd, 2011 at 3:25 pmMy id number is 6746673. Can you please tell me why my handicap is restricted and why it is staying restricted. I’ve posted my recent scores for the past several months, my handicap has been coming up through the winter months. My handicap got restricted as a 6. I’ve been told several reasons why, and our local golf pro looked into it and said it does not make sense and he doesn’t understand why. Around the 15th of this month, it was taken off restriction, then several days later it was restricted again at a 6. I have three low scores that were posted during the Men’s Club Championship that were tournament scores from last fall. Is this why it is freezing. I don’t understand what’s going on. Is this an error. Any info. would be appreicated.
May 26th, 2011 at 6:36 pmJeff – Thank you for your comment. See my July 22nd response to Matt for an explanation of how the R is arrived at. There is no way to know how long it will be in place because there are so many moving parts and because it depends on scores that you shoot in the future (best 10 of 20 number changes each revision, total number of T-scores could change, etc.). The T-scores themselves remain eligible for twelve months. Thanks – Jim Cowan, Director of Course Rating and Handicapping
May 27th, 2011 at 8:22 amI have just returned from a golfing trip to Ireland with a group of friends and we would like to post our scores. We noticed that all the courses list “Standard Scratch Scores (SSS)” which I assume roughly translates to the NCGA rating, but nothing resembling the slope required for Away Score Posting.
Is it possible to post these scores and if so how do we acquire a slope.
Thank you in advance for your reply.
June 1st, 2011 at 7:22 amPaul, thank you for your comment. These scores cannot be posted. Their ratings are not compatible with the USGA Handicap System. Much of the world has adopted the USGA Course Rating System, but not Ireland/Scotland/England. Thanks again, I hope you had a great trip! Jim Cowan, Director of Course Rating and Handicapping
June 1st, 2011 at 9:24 pmIf you play on a course with a temporary green that turns a par 5 into a par 4, should you deduct a stroke from the score you post?
June 6th, 2011 at 8:34 amDave, thank you for your comment. No, you do not just deduct a stroke under the circumstances that you have described. If the temp green is in good enough shape to play by the Rules of Golf (meaning that you can putt out) AND if the course has contacted us, we would have issued a Temp Rating based on the lost yardage. You would post your score to this rating. If the club has NOT contacted us or the green is not in good enough shape to support playing by the Rules of Golf (i.e., auto two-putt applied), act as though you did not play the hole at all. Instead, insert a score of par (in this case, 5) plus any handicap strokes you were entitled to on the hole (if you are a 20-handicapper and this was the #1 ranked hole, you would have been entitled to two strokes on this hole). With this inserted value, you then post to the normal rating. Thanks again. Jim Cowan, Director of Course Rating and Handicapping
June 6th, 2011 at 10:37 amAre all scores one shoots supposed to be recorded regardless of where played, ie Europe or Japan? If score is to be posted and they is no slope, what does one do? Thanks.
June 13th, 2011 at 10:57 amJames, thank you for your comment. If you scroll up just a few spots, you will see a similar comment. Scores can only be posted if they were recorded at courses that carry a USGA Course and Slope Rating. Much of the world has adopted the USGA Course Rating System, some areas have not. So if you see a rating and Slope, post away. If not, the score cannot be posted. Thanks again. Jim Cowan, Director of Course Rating and Handicapping
June 14th, 2011 at 8:08 amJim
June 16th, 2011 at 3:34 pmI recently played in a tournament where some questionable course rules applied for that day. The tournament director made the decision to allow “perferable lies” throught out the course, and also took out of play some key bunkers. They also allowed a “tall grass” lost ball rule, which allow you to lose a ball in tall un-cut grass without being penalize because of course conditions. I understand, but may not agree, the reason for they rules for this tournament. The scores, including mine was much lower because of it. Now, that tournament score is posted for all the players. My question, does this fall in the rules of USGA handicap system, and how far can the rules be changed and still be a posted score?
Thanks
Frank B.
want to know why my club needs a revision and i dont have an index number yet,but i posted all of my past scores today about 15 rounds
June 20th, 2011 at 9:30 pmi wanted to no why my index is a NA?
June 21st, 2011 at 10:23 amFrank, thank you for your comment. The USGA Handicap System is proactive when it comes to preferred lies. That is, it says that such scores shall be posted unless course conditions are so poor as to not warrant posting. So the short answer is “yes,” the scores need to be posted and if this is a significant tournament within your club, the T, by all means, should be applied. The tall grass stipulation is a little murkier. We discourage so-called savannah rules that treat lost ball areas as hazards (drop where it entered the long grass under penalty of one stroke rather than applying stroke and distance). I have never heard of free drops from such areas. I do know that due to our wet winter, there are places with long grasses that normally do not exist and some clubs may be having problems keeping them under control (or do not have the manpower to keep these areas trimmed). Perhaps that is how the course in viewing the situation and perhaps they almost consider it ground under repair since it will be awhile until they gain the upper hand on such areas. Without seeing the situation, I really cannot definitively say post or don’t post. I would lean towards posting. Thanks again – Jim Cowan, Director of Course Rating and Handicapping
June 23rd, 2011 at 9:11 amDave, thank you for your comment. Handicaps are issued on the 1st and 15th of each month meaning that the button to update handicaps is pushed on the evening of the 14th and the evening of the last day of the month. If your record was not active as of the 14th or if your scoring record did not have the required number of scores as of the evening of the 14th (minimum of five rounds), no handicap would have been issued. If you have enough scores now, a handicap will be issued on July 1st. Without your full name and number, I cannot look into your situation any further. Thanks again – Jim Cowan, Director of Course Rating and Handicapping
June 23rd, 2011 at 9:27 amthank you,you are the man jim
June 23rd, 2011 at 10:25 amWhen playing a “scramble” format, what is the proper way to acquire a handicap for the (A,B,C, and D) players combined for the foursome?
June 24th, 2011 at 3:09 pmDavid, thank you for your comment. There are no official recommendations for Scrambles as the Rules of Golf do not cover this format and because they come in some many different shapes and sizes (some require X number of tee shots from each team member, other do not, etc.). The unofficial recommendation is to award 20% of the A; 15% of the B; 10% of the C and 5% of the D. Thanks again, have a nice tournament. Jim Cowan, Director of Course Rating and Handicapping
June 24th, 2011 at 3:32 pmA question about a 9-hole match coming up-my opponent’s index is 17.3, and mine is 16.5. The course rating is 63.6, and slope is 108. His course handicap is 17, and mine is 16. Are any strokes given? (We play the same tees. He is 40 years old and I am 65). I hope your answer is “Play the 9-hole match straight up”, because I don’t want to give a young whippersnapper strokes!
June 26th, 2011 at 3:08 pmErv – thank you for your comment. Clearly over 18 holes you owe him a stroke. When playing nine holes, he would be entitled to 50% of the difference in Course Handicaps. 50% of one stroke is half a stroke . . . and half a stroke rounds up to a stroke. Sorry. Thanks again – Jim Cowan, Director of Course Rating and Handicapping
June 28th, 2011 at 8:31 amI have a June 30 score that was posted on the recent scores and not on the revision scores for the July indexes which caused my index to go up and and to be revised. Is there any way to correct this before the 15th indexes come out? This score was posted right after a round at about 4:30 on the 30th.
July 1st, 2011 at 6:22 amJames – thank you for your comment. The score is in your record. It just didn’t arrive in time for the July 1st computation. Most golf courses send in scores once a day in the morning, meaning your June 30th score arrived on the morning of the 1st. The “button” to update handicaps was “pushed” on the evening of the 30th. The score will be included in your July 15th calculation. Thanks again – Jim Cowan, Director of Course Rating and Handicapping
July 1st, 2011 at 8:14 amJim
July 1st, 2011 at 1:15 pmI’ll accept that my score will be what it is. I just talked with the Manager at the course that I played at and he said that scores are sent at the end of the day when the course closes. (Yesterday at 8:45PM.) So why does the “button” get pushed when there is still day light?
Indexes were available after 9:00PM. Seems like a glitch in the system to me. Indexes as of the first should include everything that was played thru the 30th. Just my humble opinion and trying to understand the system.
Thanks again for explaining.
James – your score was, in fact, sent early this morning (6:03 a.m.). Most clubs send and receive scores before the course opens so that the new handicaps are available to their members before they arrive on the 1st and 15th. If they sent and received in the evening, the new handicaps would not be available to their members until the 16th. Thanks again – Jim Cowan
July 1st, 2011 at 2:26 pmA question came up during our last match play match. A women played from the White Tee. We adjusted her handicap accordingly, however, our question was where does she get her strokes? Do we use the hole handicaps from the Forward tees or do we use the handicaps from the White Tees? There is a significant difference between how each hole is handicapped from the Forward Tees anad the White Tees.
July 2nd, 2011 at 7:43 amTed – thank you for your comment. Generally speaking, if a club has gone to the trouble of coming up with a separate allocation for the Forward tees versus White tees, they have done so with women golfers in mind. As such, I would go with the Forward tee ranking of the holes. Thanks again – Jim Cowan, Director of Course Rating and Handicapping
July 5th, 2011 at 8:23 amI have a friend who is just establishing a handicap and has only a couple of scores to post. Do you post his gross scores until a handicap is established as there is no way to utilize ESC without a GHIN rating.
July 20th, 2011 at 5:42 pmBruce – thank you for your comment. Until a golfer has been issued a Handicap Index, they post as if they have the maximum Handicap Index for their gender. That would be a 36.4 for a man; a 40.4 for a woman. If this max Index converts to a Course Handicap in the 30′s, the highest hole score they can take would be a 9. If it converts to a 40 or higher, the highest hole score they can take is a 10. Thanks again – Jim Cowan, Director of Course Rating and Handicapping
July 21st, 2011 at 4:20 pmJim, a player at our club has an index of 15.5R due to two tournament scores being used in the index calculation. However he has a berivement issue and his level of play over the last 4 months corresponds to a index of 25 without using the tournament scores. He plays 3 times a week. I’d like to know if using Section 8-4c of the NCGA Handicap Manual would apply in adusting this players index at the Local “L” level. And if so is there a different formula to use as the difference between the two handicaps is rather significant.
July 22nd, 2011 at 5:07 pmThanks
I accidentally posted the same score twice. Is there a way to have one removed?
July 26th, 2011 at 6:29 pmSteve – thank you for your comment. There are provisions within the USGA Handicap System for physical setbacks of various natures. There are no such provisions for emotional or psychological setbacks, however, so it is difficult for me to endorse some sort of intervention. If you do decide to take action, there is no sort of alternate formula to employ, you just have to exercise your best judgment. The quality of the T-scores and the golfer’s history of tournament success (or lack, thereof) should be a factor in your decision making. Thanks again and best of luck. Jim Cowan, Director of Course Rating and Handicapping
July 26th, 2011 at 9:01 pmRick – Yes. You will need to contact the handicap chair at your club, but the extra score can be removed, Only your handicap chair has the authority to do this. Thanks
July 27th, 2011 at 8:16 amOn my last handicap lookup dated 8/1/2011 my score of 97 at El Macero on 7/18/11 was used but not my lower score of 89 at Ancil Hoffman on 7/28/11. Should not the lower score have been used? Thanks
John Cobb ghin 5196102
August 2nd, 2011 at 8:33 amJohn Cobb, thank you for your comment. It is your ten best rounds that go into the calculation, not the ten lowest scores. In this case, the tees you played at Ancil Hoffman carry such a lower rating than the tees at El Macero (64.7/113 versus 71.7/127), that the 97 at El Macero was considered the better performance. Thanks again – Jim Cowan, Director of Course Rating and Handicapping
August 2nd, 2011 at 10:34 amI played Ancil Hoffman GC on 7/28/11 from the white tees. Unfortunately my score was entered incorrectly showing I had played from the green tees. I subsequently posted my correct score from the white tees. Now the computer shows both scores on the same day. How can I delete my incorrect posting showing the green tees?
Thanks,
Chuck Cobb
August 3rd, 2011 at 9:46 amJohn Cobb, you will need to report the error to your club. They have the means to perform such corrections/deletions. Thanks – Jim Cowan, Director of Course Rating and Handicapping
August 3rd, 2011 at 4:15 pmDear Jim,
In my weekly game, I missed the green and had my head down to chip while one of my playing partners tended the flag. As a joke, he turned the flag stick upside down and had it in the cup when I chipped. The ball bounced, hit the stick and fell into the ice cream cone of the furled flag. Did I get a birdie, a par (with a penalty stroke), or did the flag tender incur a penalty stroke?
Thanks for the interpretation.
Gordon Teekell
August 18th, 2011 at 5:32 pmGordon,
Your ball would be considered holed if the entire ball was below the level of the lip of the hole. Otherwise, you would have to place the ball on the edge of the hole. You would not be penalized.
Decision 17-3/2 applies to your opponent.
17-3/2 Opponent or Fellow-Competitor Attending Flagstick for Player Fails to Remove It; Player’s Ball Strikes Flagstick
Q. A requests B, his opponent or a fellow-competitor, to attend the flagstick, and B complies. A putts too firmly and B fails to remove the flagstick. A’s ball strikes the flagstick. What is the ruling?
A. If B failed to remove the flagstick for the purpose of causing A to incur a penalty, B is disqualified in both match play and stroke play for a serious breach of Rule 1-2. In stroke play, in equity (Rule 1-4), A must replay the stroke without penalty.
If B’s failure to remove the flagstick was for the purpose of preventing A’s ball from going beyond the flagstick and not for the purpose of causing A to incur a penalty, in match play B lost the hole under Rule 1-2 when he failed to remove the flagstick before A’s ball reached the hole. The fact that A’s ball subsequently struck the flagstick (a breach of Rule 17-3a) is irrelevant since B had already lost the hole. In stroke play, B incurs a penalty of two strokes under Rule 1-2, and A incurs the same penalty under Rule 17-3a.
If B’s failure to remove the flagstick was not deliberate, e.g., the flagstick stuck in the socket or B was distracted and did not see A putt, A incurs a penalty of loss of hole in match play or two strokes in stroke play under Rule 17-3. B incurs no penalty.
August 22nd, 2011 at 9:53 amHow do I post a course from Las Vegas, it’s not listed (only N.Nevada courses is listed)
August 30th, 2011 at 2:18 pmTK, thank you for your comment. Unfortunately Southern Nevada subscribes to a different handicap service than we do. As a result, we do NOT have access to their ratings. You will have to hand-enter the rating values (select Manual posting of scores rather than looking up the ratings). Hopefully you have retained the scorecards. If not, the websites of the courses will likely have the ratings. Just be certain to edit the dates of the rounds to the proper values in order to retain the correct chronological order of your rounds. The USGA is working on a solution that will permit the look-up of all national ratings, even those that subscribe to different services. This solution is still some months away. Thanks again, I hope you had a nice trip to Nevada. Jim Cowan, Director of Course Rating and Handicapping
August 31st, 2011 at 9:34 amWe recently played Indian Valley and they had moved all of the tees up as part of a “Tee it Forward” campaign to speed up play. We played from the white tees but most (not all) were moved up to the forward red tee boxes. Several people shot very low scores. We were told to post our scores from the white tees but this seems incorrect. Doesn’t this change the course rating system?
August 31st, 2011 at 4:16 pmMy club recently decided to suggest that our (men) members who are 80 years old or older use the red tees. Since all the 80 and over players have a index based on white tees what adjustment should be made on their current index or must they establish a new index based on their scores using the red tees ?
September 1st, 2011 at 8:19 amDave F., thank you for your comment. You would need to estimate how much shorter the tees you played were versus the normal White tees. You would then apply that yardage to a table which will instruct you how much to reduce the White tee Rating and Slope. You would then post your score to the adjusted rating. Here is a link to the table in question (you want Section 5-2g) http://www.usga.org/Rule-Books/Handicap-System-Manual/Rule-05/ Thanks again, Jim Cowan, Director of Course Rating and Handicapping
September 1st, 2011 at 7:40 pmMerle, thank you for your comment. I am assuming that a men’s rating for your Red tees is in place at this time. If not, we will need to compute one for you. Those playing Red simply adjust their Handicap Index to the lower Slope Rating of the Red tees and play away. They then post their scores to this lower Red rating. I wouldn’t be surprised if some playing Red see their scores improve significantly, so in the long run their Handicap Index may come down. In the short term, though, no adjustment is in order UNLESS the Red tee golfers are competing against White tee golfers. In that case, the White tee golfers add strokes to their Course Handicaps equal to the difference in the Course Ratings between the two tees (or the Red tee golfers deduct strokes from their Course Handicaps equal to this difference). Thanks again and good luck with your venture. Jim Cowan, Director of Course Rating and Handicapping
September 1st, 2011 at 7:59 pmI am trying to post a couple of scores from when I played in Wisconsin and there are no courses offered to pick. Why is that? Is there a reason Wisconsin is not available or is it a system problem? Thank you for your help.
September 5th, 2011 at 9:51 pmSuzanne, thank you for your comment. Scroll up about six comments and you will see my response for scores from Las Vegas. Wisconsin is in a similar boat. Thanks again, I hope you had a nice trip to Wisconsin. Jim Cowan, Director of Course Rating and Handicapping
September 6th, 2011 at 1:29 pmThis week we had a two day tournament and one of our members shot 79 and 73 with an index of 16.4. They were courses with slope ratings of 127. As the handicap chair am I supposed to do or report the scores. I believe he had an incredible two days but the scores are off the charts and some of the members questioned the probability of someone playing that well.
September 22nd, 2011 at 10:08 pmDarryl, thank you for your comment. Here is a link to a USGA-generated odds table. http://www.usga.org/Rule-Books/Handicap-System-Manual/Appendix-E/ Without knowing the Course Rating, I cannot tell you how many strokes below his handicap he played . . . but clearly it was by a lot. The best thing that you can do is ensure that the scores get posted properly. And if this was a significant tournament within your club, that a “T” was applied to the rounds for your field. Clearly the golfer’s handicap will be coming down as a result of these rounds. And if the “T” was applied, the scores have a potential to impact his handicap for months to come. Thanks again – Jim Cowan, Director of Course Rating and Handicapping
September 23rd, 2011 at 9:20 amWhy do many of the NCGA event scores not get posted? I have seen at least 3 major NCGA scratch events or USGA qualifiers not post scores this year. It is impossible for us to post the scores since you move the tees around so we don’t know the course rating for that adjusted course. And since the NCGA is meant to post the scores, the players don’t post. I can see why most of the scratch golfers don’t care for the handicapping system when the governing body seems to ignore it too.
September 25th, 2011 at 9:15 amFor international courses that don’t have slope ratings (for example Royal Troon in Scotland) is there a way to post the scores so they can be considered in my handicap computation?
September 30th, 2011 at 7:08 amI’m a relatively new player. I’m a bit confused about the posting system after reading some of the questions and answers. I’ve always posted my gross score. Should one’s handicap be involved? Thank you….
October 3rd, 2011 at 4:25 pmMark Evans, thank you for your comment. If the course has a USGA Course and Slope Rating and the round is played “in season,” you are required to post the score. If it does not have a USGA Course and Slope Rating, you cannot post it. Without the proper ratings, the round is just not compatible with our System. Much of the world has adopted the USGA Rating System, but not all. Thanks again, I hope you had a great trip. Jim Cowan, Director of Course Rating and Handicapping
October 5th, 2011 at 9:54 amJuliet Simpson, thank you for your comment. The USGA Handicap System requires you to apply Equitable Stroke Control (ESC) to your scores before you post them for handicapping purposes. The intent of ESC is to prevent an uncharacteristically bad hole(s) from skewing your score for that round and ultimately skewing your handicap. ESC sets a maximum hole score that you can record for handicap purposes based upon your handicap level. Here are two links to more info on ESC including a link that includes ESC for golfers with 9-hole handicaps.
October 5th, 2011 at 10:59 amhttp://www.usga.org/Rule-Books/Handicap-System-Manual/Rule-04/ http://www.usga.org/Rule-Books/Handicap-System-Manual/Rule-10/
Thanks again, Jim Cowan, Director of Course Rating and Handicapping
Dear N,
Thank you for your post regarding score posting for NCGA and USGA Events. We take score posting very seriously here and for our NCGA specific events, we make every effort possible to post competitiors’ scores at the close of any given event. For USGA qualifying however we receive the pairings directly from the USGA and those pairings do not include players’ GHIN numbers. When we set up a course for USGA qualifying, we rarely move tees around enough where the change in yardage would have any effect on the course’s slope and ratingand we always encourage players to post their scores at the completion of those qualifiers.
If you have any further questions please do not hesitate to contact us again.
Ryan Magee, Director of Championships & Events
October 5th, 2011 at 3:58 pmMy club has one female and our home course has a different rating for
October 7th, 2011 at 6:23 amwomen due mainly because number 18 is a par four for men and a par five for ladies. When we play there she wants to take a stroke off her gross and another stroke off for her net. I tell her gross is gross and that she can not do that. Who is correct?
Larry, thank you for your comment. To a certain degree you are both correct. Gross scores are gross scores, and low score wins without any adjustment. Net scores are different and you have to take into consideration the difference in the Course Ratings (not par) between your tees and her tees. Basically whichever one of you is playing the set of the tees with the higher Course Rating receives additional strokes equal to the difference in the ratings (.5 is rounded up). So if her Course Rating happens to be around one or two strokes higher, she would add one or two strokes to her handicap when competing against the men which would lower her net scores. Thanks again – Jim Cowan, Director of Course Rating and Handicapping
October 7th, 2011 at 9:40 amnew ncga number 203102, old scga number 9780711, would like to use old number as will keep double membership Can I do that?
Secondly, using both numbers can I have an immediate handicap using last 20 scores from both numb ers?
Thanks dick
October 26th, 2011 at 3:25 pmDick Buhler, thank you for your comment and congratulations on joining the NCGA. I have merged the two different numbers into a single record. From this point on your only number will be 9780-711. The handicap issued to you next week (Nov 1st) will be based on your twenty most recent rounds. Thanks again – Jim Cowan, Director of Course Rating and Handicapping
October 26th, 2011 at 4:35 pmI have to admit that I am confused. I am relatively new to NCGA and do not have a grasp of what a handicap index is, how to use it in scoring, etc. Is there a simple explanation or publication you can direct me to so I can educate myself?
Thank you in advance.
December 2nd, 2011 at 12:07 amHi Jim, my foursome likes to play match play. How can we determine what handicaps s/b. i.e. I am a 7 and another one in our group is a 20. I can understand playing stroke play we spin off of my handicap thus giving my opponent 13 stokes. But he believes in match play he should be getting 1 stroke on the 13 hardest hole. I do not believe that is fair. IS there conversion formula for stroke play to match play.
Thanks,
December 5th, 2011 at 2:38 pmRich
Garpet, thank you for your email. The goal of the Handicap System is to issue you a Handicap Index which best represents your “potential” ability. This Index compares your scoring ability to that of an expert amateur (0 or Scratch handicapper) on a course of standard difficulty. This Handicap Index is portable. That is, you travel with it from course to course and convert it into a Course Handicap based on the difficulty of the course and tees you are playing. The more difficult the course, the more strokes you receive. I am dropping a brief guide to the Handicap System in the mail to you. You should receive it within a couple of days. Thanks again. Jim Cowan, Director of Course Rating and Handicapping
December 5th, 2011 at 4:47 pmRich F, thank you for your email. In both a head-to-head match and in a match where it is two of you against two of them, everyone does spin off the low handicapper who then plays at scratch. For example, if a 7 squares off against a 20, the 7 plays at scratch, the 20 at 13 and he receives his strokes on the 1 thru 13 ranked holes. If a 7 and 15 take on a 10 and 20, the 7 plays at scratch, the 15 at 8, the 10 at 3, the 20 at 13. The three all receive their strokes as indicated on the scorecard. It is important that those receiving strokes receive them on the more difficult holes, not the easier ones. Strokes are intended to be equalizers, not winners. So in a match between a 17 and 18, you wouldn’t want the 18 to receive his stroke on the 18th ranked hole (easiest hole). The stroke needs to be awarded on the #1 ranked hole. Thanks again – Jim Cowan, Director of Course Rating and Handicapping
December 5th, 2011 at 5:09 pmThanks Jim, but just to clarify. Do you use the same formula for match play that you would for stroke play? My friends always want to do match play. So, if we are playing “match play” and if I’m a 10 and my opponent is a 20 he strokes on the 10 hardest holes? That doesn’t seem equivalent to say we played “stroke play” I shoot 82 and he shoots a 92 so we tie. I understand that strokes are intended to be equalizers but I think getting a stroke on 10 holes in match play would weigh much more then getting 10 strokes in stroke play.
December 6th, 2011 at 9:12 amRich F., I am describing how you handle match play. A ten has to give a twenty ten strokes in a match. These strokes need to be issued on the 1 thru 10 ranked holes. As the low handicapper, you actually enjoy a built-in statistical advantage over the higher handicapper. Because handicaps are based on 96% of the difference between scores and Course Ratings and not 100%, an ever-so-slight built-in advantage has been awarded to the lower handicapper in a match. If you play the twenty a hundred times in a head-to-head match, you should win just over half the time. Thanks again – Jim Cowan, Director of Course Rating and Handicapping
December 6th, 2011 at 9:27 amThanks Jim appreciate the inf. Just want to make sure it is fair to everyone. :-)
December 6th, 2011 at 10:23 amIs there a way or a place that I can see ALL my rounds played this year??
December 17th, 2011 at 8:24 pmBrian – thank you for your comment. Your club can generate such a report, or, if you email me (jcowan@ncga.org) I can send you something. Thanks again – Jim Cowan, Director of Course Rating and Handicapping
December 19th, 2011 at 12:39 pmWe have a few members who like to complain about other peoples handicaps to our handicap chairman. It seems unfair that these people can just complain and the other people don’t get a fair chance at talking to their accusers. Is there a good process for people to talk to each other regarding complains about handicaps. Thanks for helping me out as President of our club.
December 19th, 2011 at 6:09 pmI’ve only been playing for less than a year and just joined the NCGA through a club I belong to, How many scores do I have to post to get a handicap? Is there something that I can read about the handicap rating system? And just what is equitable stroke control or ESC that I hear the guys talk about. Thanks, Fred
December 28th, 2011 at 2:11 pmBill Wachtel, thank you for your comment. The foundation of the USGA Handicap System is built on the principle of “peer review.” That is, fellow members overseeing the posting of scores by fellow members and overseeing the accuracy of the handicaps issued. So I would not discount such reports of wrongdoing by members, but I would consider establishing certain standards. For one, I would require specifics (i.e., this golfer played golf on this date but did not post a score; this golfer recorded a score of 85 on 12/30 but he really shot an 81; this golfer won two of our most important tournaments of the year and “cashed” in four others; this golfer kicked his ball out from behind a tree on the 6th hole in our tournament last week; etc.), not generalities (i.e., this guy is a sandbagger, this guy is a cheater, etc.). Another standard could be that the comments cannot be anonymous, they must have an identified source so that there is some accountability. The bottom line is that the “power” of the Handicap System rests with you, the club, because you are ones that know the golfers and their games the best. And you have an obligation to follow up on declarations of wrongdoing, within reason. Thanks again and good luck! Jim Cowan, Director of Course Rating and Handicapping
December 29th, 2011 at 9:22 amFred, thank you for your comment. The Handicap System requires a minimum of five scores before a Handicap Index can be issued. If you have five or six scores in your record on the evening before the 1st and 15th, a Handicap Index will be issued to you based on your single best round. Then your best two of seven or eight rounds, best three of nine or ten rounds, etc., until you reach the ideal best ten of twenty standard. As to your other questions, I am dropping a little Handicap System guide in the mail to you. It covers the basics including ESC. Thanks again. Jim Cowan, Director of Course Rating and Handicapping
December 29th, 2011 at 9:28 amAre the calculations used for a players index also used to determine a Trend except all last 20 scores are used??
January 5th, 2012 at 12:23 pmPhil, thank you for your comment. You pretty much have it right. Basically “trend” says that if the button to update handicaps was pressed right this second with these exact twenty scores, here is what your Handicap Index would be. Of course, if you posted an Away score at another course yesterday and that score has not yet made it back to your club, the trend figure does not have access to your true twenty most recent rounds. So view this number cautiously. Thanks again, Jim Cowan, Director of Course Rating and Handicapping
January 6th, 2012 at 9:44 amI just started playing again after numerous minor injuries over the last several years. In an attempt to get an accurate index of my current skill level I would like to post as many scores as possible. This is where it gets interesting. I actually have two questions now, after reviewing all of the above posts.
First, if I play in a local tournament where I DQ myself (say for not completing a hole), should a score still be posted by taking the maximum adjusted number for that hole?
Second, and the reason I came to this inquiry originally, is more unique. As a member of Gleneagles, that recently rebuilt all nine greens and reseeded all eighteen tees, I played twice last week in preparation for our first tournament of the year. This is where this discussion gets a little strange. Although my index is currently 10.8, I posted a 94 and a 92, due to lack of play and learning curve to new conditions. This last Sunday, in an annual 3 club tourney, I shot a 90 (adjusted to 87).
After the round, while in discussion with other members about posting, the general idea was that I should not post. Their thinking was based on the idea that I would be padding my index, which is understandable. But it was actually my low score out of the three rounds last week, even if I only used three clubs. I actually won the low net division of the tourney with a 77 and do not want to have any push back if my index goes up and this score is not posted. Your thoughts would be greatly appreciated.
January 9th, 2012 at 4:49 pmDan, thank you for your comment. First and foremost, you (and your fellow members) do not have a choice on which scores you post and which you don’t. Unless the golf course is in such a state of disrepair that the club has decided to suspend all score posting, you and all your fellow members are required to post all your rounds. Certainly there are some exceptions, like rounds of golf from scrambles and others forms of play where you do not play your own ball from tee to green; rounds played on courses in areas of the country that are deemed “out of season” during the winter months; rounds where non-conforming clubs, balls or tees are used, etc. Another exception is when, as a condition of play, the maximum number of clubs allowed is less than 14. So if you played in a three club tournament of some sort, that round cannot be posted. Other than that, you post all scores, good and bad. Lastly, just because you didn’t play a hole or didn’t complete a hole, it doesn’t mean you don’t post. For unplayed holes you fill in the blanks by awarding yourself a score of “par, plus any handicap strokes” you were entitled to on the hole. For holes that you didn’t complete, you award yourself the “score you most likely would have made” had you completed the hole. This number cannot exceed your Equitable Stroke Control maximum score. Thanks again – Jim Cowan, Director of Course Rating and Handicapping
January 10th, 2012 at 10:47 amJim, thank you also so much for your comments. While I have been playing this game, on and off, nearly 50 years, I can always learn more, as I did today. I get all of your comments and will not repeat the errors of my youth (anytime before today)again.
January 10th, 2012 at 5:54 pmRegards, Dan Redmond, Director of Nothing Important
Hi Jim,
I have recently been elected handicap chairman. I feel our club hasn’t been designating enough tourneys as “T” scores. NCGA qualifier’s are the only “T” scores being posted. Which means only three per year. We have several other tourney’s during the year that are stroke play and I feel should be entered as “T”. Also we play a weekly nine hole game from spring through fall that could also be posted as “T”. Can a nine hole score be posted as “T”? How its working now is the successive nines are added and posted as a 18 hole score. We have some sneaky players that will shoot a net 31 and follow it up with a net 43 or something high which negates the the ringer round from lowering their index. Any feedback would be appreciated. thanks.
January 14th, 2012 at 11:49 pmWalt, thank you for your comment. First of all, 9-hole rounds cannot be designated with a “T.” The question of whether a combined 18-hole round should carry a T if only one of the two nines was in a tournament prevents a T from ever being applied to a 9-hole round. As to your bigger question, contrary to what your instincts might suggest, fewer tournaments designated with a “T” is a good thing. Too many T’s actually dilutes the ability of the System to identify those golfers that always seem to save their very best play for just the most important tournaments. So you would be best served by NOT applying the T to routine weekly or monthly events of little consequence and, instead, reserving the T for the most significant tournament within the club. Ask yourself which tournaments carry the greatest prizes, greatest prestige, etc. These are the only ones that the T should be applied to. At most clubs that would include their Club Championship, a Member-Guest or Invitational, NCGA Qualifiers and other annual and/or money-added tournaments that rise above the status of the standard weekly or monthly events. Thanks again and best of luck in your new duties – Jim Cowan, Director of Course Rating and Handicapping
January 16th, 2012 at 4:36 pmI just got back from a golf trip to Bandon Dunes where I played 8 rounds of golf. I learned from a friend on the trip that scores from rounds played in December through February on courses located on the northwest coast (Oregon and Washington) were not allowed by the NCGA to be posted. I was surprised to learn this since I have always followed the rule that every round gets posted. But here is the hard part: Several of these scores were better than my handicap and, if posted, will lower my index. Should I really not post any of my Bandon scores?
January 23rd, 2012 at 7:29 pmJohn, thank you for your comment. Here are the circumstances in which you do NOT post:
e. Unacceptable Scores
January 26th, 2012 at 10:00 amScores made under the following conditions are not acceptable for handicap purposes and must not be entered in the player’s scoring record:
(i) When fewer than seven holes are played;
(ii) When made on a golf course in an area in which an inactive season established by the authorized golf association is in effect;
(iii) When the length of the course is less than 3,000 yards for 18 holes (or less than 1,500 yards for 9 holes);
(iv) When, as a condition of the competition, the maximum number of clubs allowed is less than 14, or types of clubs are limited as, for example, in a competition that allows only iron clubs;
(v) When scores are made on a course with no USGA Course Rating or Slope Rating;
(vi) When a player uses non-conforming clubs, non-conforming balls, or tees;
(vii) With respect to Rule 14-3 (Rules of Golf), when an artificial device or piece of unusual equipment is used during the execution of a stroke or when equipment is used in an unusual manner during the execution of a stroke. (See Decision 5-1f/2 for an exception.)
Obviously, you also cannot post from alternate-shot forms of play where you do not hit your own ball from tee to hole (i.e., scrambles, chapmans, etc.).
Oregon courses in Dec/Jan/Feb fall under the second clause. The State of Washington and Northern Nevada pretty much follow a similar schedule. If you travel to the mid-West or East Coast, the period of time in which score posting is not permitted extends even further because of their climate.
Thanks again – Jim Cowan, Director of Course Rating and Handicapping
If a player plays from different tees during a round, there is a table that tells you the course and slope rating change when you post. How do you make the correct course rating adjustment from unrated tees for a nine-hole round?
January 29th, 2012 at 1:06 pmGeorge, thank you for your comment. First and foremost, if this is a set of tees that is going to get a lot of play, we would be happy to issue a men’s rating from those tees (and the WGANC or PWGA would be happy to issue women’s ratings from any and all tees that you need). Lacking this, there is a USGA procedure that instructs you how much to bump up or bump down an existing rating depending on whether the unrated tees are longer or shorter than a set of tees that already have a rating. Here is a link to those Men’s and Women’s tables. http://www.usga.org/Rule-Books/Handicap-System-Manual/Rule-05/ The tables are under section g. Thanks again – Jim Cowan, Director of Course Rating and Handicapping
January 30th, 2012 at 2:17 pmThanks Jim, after doing more research about how T-scores apply to the handicap, I understand that too many T scores ( the table was an eye-opener) would result in essentially nixing the the reason why T-scores where created. We will have seven scores a calender year that count. Two are two day tournaments. This doesn’t prevent players from accumulating T-scores in other clubs, we can only control our clubs actions.
February 3rd, 2012 at 10:16 amI belong to an associate club that posts every tournament score as a “Tournament” score. My understanding is that only club majors should be posted as a tournament and that all other tournaments should be posted as a home event. The club handicap chairperson disagrees with my understanding.
February 7th, 2012 at 1:35 pmIf the associate club has no “home” course how should they be handling the posting situation?.
Is there any downside to posting so many “Tournament” scores in any given year?
Bob, thank you for your comment. You are correct in your understanding. Scroll up a few postings (my response to Walt) to find an answer to which tournaments to apply the “T” to and the downside of applying the “T” too often (also see Walt’s revelation directly above your posting). If you are successful in convincing your club to reserve the “T” for only the most important events, as an Associate club you probably want to post the rest of your rounds together as Away. Thanks again – Jim Cowan, Director of Course Rating and Handicapping
February 7th, 2012 at 4:53 pm