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What are my options for a shot that lands on an island green and rolls into the water at the back of the green assumming a yellow boundary line around the green. Also, same question except the green has a red boundary line. Also,what are my options if the ball flies over the green and lands in the water beyond the back of the green for both a water hazard (yellow boundary line) and lateral hazard (red boundary line)? Thanks
January 5th, 2012 at 1:37 amP.S. I believe I understand how to apply the water hazard rules except how to apply the rules to island greens are confusing.
Gary,
Your options as prescribed in Rule 26-1 are available when your ball has come to rest in a water or later water hazard.
26-1. Relief for Ball in Water Hazard
It is a question of fact whether a ball that has not been found after having been struck toward a water hazard is in the hazard. In the absence of knowledge or virtual certainty that a ball struck toward a water hazard, but not found, is in the hazard, the player must proceed under Rule 27-1.
If a ball is found in a water hazard or if it is known or virtually certain that a ball that has not been found is in the water hazard (whether the ball lies in water or not), the player may under penalty of one stroke:
a. Proceed under the stroke and distance provision of Rule 27-1 by playing a ball as nearly as possible at the spot from which the original ball was last played (see Rule 20-5); or
b. Drop a ball behind the water hazard, keeping the point at which the original ball last crossed the margin of the water hazard directly between the hole and the spot on which the ball is dropped, with no limit to how far behind the water hazard the ball may be dropped; or
c. As additional options available only if the ball last crossed the margin of a lateral water hazard, drop a ball outside the water hazard within two club-lengths of and not nearer the hole than (i) the point where the original ball last crossed the margin of the water hazard or (ii) a point on the opposite margin of the water hazard equidistant from the hole.
When proceeding under this Rule, the player may lift and clean his ball or substitute a ball.
Decision 33-2a/10 gives the Committee direction to establish a dropping zone for an island green when it is maked as a water hazard.
January 6th, 2012 at 9:04 amToday during a fun round my ball came to rest under a clump of mushrooms growing just off the fairway (through the green). I was really quite lucky to both find and be able to identify my ball. As I didn’t have any reference material available I played the ball as it lied believing that no drop (abnormal ground condition) or “harvesting” of the mushrooms (loose impediment, moveable or immovable obstruction) would apply. Later, I was able to find a reference to a mushroom growing on the line of a putt (16-1a/15) suggesting that the committee should remove the mushroom or if the situation is a recurring issue that a local rule treat mushrooms on the putting green as ground under repair. Your thoughts…
January 9th, 2012 at 10:40 pmDennis,
January 10th, 2012 at 10:45 amWhen the ball lies through the green, there is no Rule that would allow you to take relif from mushrooms around your ball. Since they are growing and are attached, they would not be considered loose impediments and the player may not remove them. The Committe would not be justified in declaring these areas as ground under repair.
Ryan. does a player ever have the “right” to finish putting? is it true that when a player say’s “I’ll finish” he/she is really asking permission to hit out of turn,(when the player is no longer the farthest from the hole) and as we know, most people allow it.
January 13th, 2012 at 6:46 amMark,
January 13th, 2012 at 10:45 amIn stroke play, a player may play out of turn without penalty (Rule 10). In match play, there is no penalty, however you opponent may recall the stroke.
May local club tournaments return the sum of the tournament entry fees as cash payouts to the winners orr must all “payouts”, except skins and closet to the pin, be in some form of credit or non-monetary prize?
January 14th, 2012 at 1:38 pmI have a stump the rules question: It is long and complicated. Every year our club has a match play tourney between it’s members. We have both women and men members in our Morro Bay Golf Club. There are only a few women but but last year a woman won the entire tournament. In years past, the men played from the white tees and women played from the red tees to my knowledge. I am the new installed Rules Chair for this club. Consider this the backdrop of the question.
This year the annual match play tourney was announced after it was discussed at our annual meeting in January. The format was changed to the pod format from the consolation format. We paid our entry fees. To my knowledge there was nothing written down concerning the rules of the tourney and what tees should be used.
Consequently, one of our members, Mr. T (hdcp 13) teed off from the red tees against our member, Ms. M (hdcp 20). Ms. M thought the guys were teasing her when she heard that Mr. T was planning to do this. Mr. T is quite a teaser. The day of the tourney she was taken back when he actually did tee off from the red and gave her 13 strokes. She lost the match on the 13th hole.
So, my question is this: must Mr. T play from the red tees for the rest of the tourney? Should the tournament chair or the person running the tournament have designated the tees to be used for the tourney? If he didn’t publish rules, what should be done or not done to rectify the problem?
When I brought this issue to the board via email, I discovered that one of the men teed off from the golf tees while his opponent teed off from the whites. To my knowledge this is the first time that has ever happened.
How should this be handled?
Thank you for your help in this matter.
Sincerely, Ray Jackson, Rules Chair, Morro Bay Golf Course
January 15th, 2012 at 7:43 pmBobG,
January 16th, 2012 at 7:48 amAn amateur golfer must not receive cash in any amount. However, they may receive cash for playing in an OPTIONAL skins game.Decision: 3-1/1 Closest to the Hole, Long Drive and Putting Contests Offering Prize Money
Q. If a player competes in a closest to the hole, long drive or putting contest for a cash prize, is he considered to be “playing for prize money,” in breach of Rule 3-1?
A. In these circumstances, it is not considered that the player is playing for prize money in breach of Rule 3-1. However, it is considered that the player who accepts the prize would be liable for forfeiture of Amateur Status under Rule 3-1.
Please refer to the Rules of Amateur Status in the Rules of Golf.
Ray,
January 16th, 2012 at 7:59 amIt us up to the Committee to establish the conditions of the competition which includes the tees that the players will use for the tournament. They should put the information in writing either on the local rules sheet or in some manner so that there is no confusion. Since the tournament was played without any direction from the Committee, the results should stand as played. See Rule 33-1.
A ball ends up in a pile of leaves or pine needles through the green. The player in searching for the ball moves it accidentally. Now he has to replace the ball with a one stroke penalty. Does he have to replace any of the loose impediments he removed in searching for the ball? Could he, in fact, before replacing the ball remove all the leaves or pine needles? Or must the lie be recreated as is required in a bunker?
January 16th, 2012 at 12:31 pmDoes Mr. T have to play remaining matches from the red tees? or does it matter?
January 16th, 2012 at 3:43 pmDrew,
January 16th, 2012 at 6:46 pmThe answer depends on where the ball is located. If the ball is in a hazard, Rule 12-1b states that the player must re-cover the ball but is permitted to leave a small part of the ball visible. If the ball lies in an area through the green, the Rules of Golf do not prohibit the removal of loose impediments prior to the replacement of the ball.
Ray,
January 16th, 2012 at 6:53 pmSince each match is considered it’s own seperate competition the Committee would be justified in establishing which tees they wish the competitors to play. Mr. T could be required to play the tees that the Committee establishes.
please! what is the actual ruling? does any given player have a “right” to finish putting? (lets assume he does not have to stand in anyone’s line or through-line) If this player misses his 8 footer and leaves 16″ inches, then says ” I’ll Finish”, does he have a right to finish or will he be given that privilege by the remaining, further from the hole players? ( we have a player that takes to much time during the “I’ll finish”…re-mark,clean a clean ball, re-align,read break again…etc. I feel he is hitting out of turn and thus may not be allotted the full amount of time normally given. IE. if you take to long, your “right” may be taken away next time. sadly enough, by doing so are groups flirting with breaking rule 1-3? please help!
January 18th, 2012 at 8:48 amMark,
January 18th, 2012 at 6:35 pmIt is most common that players that wish to continious putt do not go through their entire routine prior to putting. If you would rather have the player wait until others putt, it is certainly understandable to ask him to wait until others that are further from the hole putt. There is no penalty under Rule 1-3 or 10-2b.
If a person puts a tee in their mouth,(pointing at the ground), for the express purpose of making sure they keep their head still while hitting their ball during a round of golf, it that using an aide?
January 19th, 2012 at 9:48 pmLucille,
January 20th, 2012 at 11:00 amThe player would be disqualified under Rule 14-3 for using equipment in an unusual manner to assist her in making a stroke.
Would Rule 14-3 apply if a lolly-pop stick or cigarette were used instead of a tee, with the same intention? Does the lolly-pop stick or cig. become part of your equipment?
January 21st, 2012 at 3:38 pmI had the good fortune to work as a marshall at the Sony Open in Hawaii last week. One situation came up that was curious. A player hit a ball into the lateral hazard near where I was spotting so it was known that the ball was in the hazard. After conferring with me for a moment about where the ball last crossed into the hazard, the player looked in the hazard near where we were; then he walked back to a bridge that took him to the other side of the hazard to look for the ball some more. He then came back to my side. By this time five minutes had clearly passed, but before he actually dropped a ball, another marshall yelled from the other side of the hazard that he might know where the ball was. So the player went back to the other side to look again. In fact, a ball was found and it was his ball, still in the hazard. After all this he ended up dropping a ball on my side of the hazard and played on. My question is: if he had decided to try to play the ball out of the hazard could he have done so even though it was found and identified well after five minutes of searching? Or was he now limited to one of the drop options for a ball “lost” in a lateral water hazard? And, is there ever a pace of play penalty on the PGA tour?
January 22nd, 2012 at 1:58 pmLucille,
January 23rd, 2012 at 9:47 amThe definition of equipment is anything used, worn or carried by the player. So a lolly-pop or cigarette used for the purpose of assisting a player in making a stroke would be considered a violation of Rule 14-3.
Jerry,
January 23rd, 2012 at 9:53 amThe player would not be entitled to play the ball after it was not found within five minutes of beginning to search for it. Since the ball was lost, the player was required to proceed under his options as prescribed in Rule 26. There is very rarely a pace of play penalty issued on the PGA Tour. Most pace of play issues are dealt with by monetary fines to the players.
On a Par 3 a ball is hooked onto the green, hits the green rolls hard across the green and into a red hazard and continues rolling down hill (all while still in the hazard) another 20 yards under a cyclone fence and proceeds to stop on the other side of the fence. Is the player intitled to drop under the rules of a red hazard or does this player play the ball as out of bounds and hits from the tee box again?
January 23rd, 2012 at 7:36 pmOn my home course our cart path turns into a gravel cart path for about 250 yards and then back into a normal paved cart path. The debate goes on if a player shall recieve cart path relief from that gravel cart path. What does it take to be considered a cart path (Dirt, Gravel, Cement)? And in that situation does a player get relief from it?
January 23rd, 2012 at 7:45 pmMario,
January 24th, 2012 at 8:45 amIf the cyclone fence defines the out of bounds, the ball lies out of bounds and the player must proceed under stroke and distance. See Decision 26-1/7.
Mario,
January 24th, 2012 at 8:53 amIt is up to the Committee to determine how the cart path is played. Since the gravel is considered an artificial substance added to the course it would fall under the definition of an obstruction. By definition, this area of cart path would be considered an obstruction and players would be entitled to relief as prescribed in Rule 24-2. However, the Committee may wish to deem that area to be an integral part of the course and the gravel would be considered loose impedements. See Decision 24/9 and 23/14.
Is there any definition to the maximum distance a ball marker can be from the ball position? Is it alright to touch the ball when placing the marker?
January 30th, 2012 at 3:01 pmBill,
January 30th, 2012 at 4:24 pmDecision 20-1/20 states that a player has not accurately marked his ball if he places the ball marker two inches behind the ball. A player is permitted to touch or move the ball when marking, lifting, placing or re-placing the ball (Rule 20).
Decision 13-4/16 tells us there is no penalty for removing the loose impediment. In the question, however, the player proceeded under Rule 26. If he had found his ball after looking a bit longer in a playable spot in the hazard would he have had to replace that loose impediment before playing his ball even if the two balls were not near each other?, or what if they were near each other?
January 30th, 2012 at 5:55 pmRick,
January 31st, 2012 at 8:53 amWhen he lifted the loose impediment he was operating under Rule 12-1b shich permitted him to do so without penalty. He would have to replace the loose impediment if it was effecting his lie. If he subsequently finds his ball anywhere, he would not be penalized.
Hi Ryan,
January 31st, 2012 at 2:34 pmThere are several decisions (e.g. 8-1/15, 31-4/2 6-8a/2.5) that say no penalty provided there is no undue delay. In NCGA tourneys can there be an undue delay penalty even if the players are still meeting the pace of play conditions of competition?
1- If a player hits her second shot on the middle of the fairway and it lands in the bunker, and she can’t see where it exactly landed, is she allowed to walk up to see where the ball landed? Since she couldn’t see where the ball landed, should she have hit a “provisional ball” first before walking up to the bunker to check if the ball was unplayable or not? What rule is this in the USGA rule book?
2- If you land on the green and start putting and the ball goes off the back of the green, does the next shot count as a putt? In other words, once one starts putting, you must continue to putt?? Is there a ruling in the USGA rule book?
3- If a ball is deemed unplayable in the bunker, must the dropped ball still be in the bunker?
January 31st, 2012 at 3:10 pmDan,
January 31st, 2012 at 3:24 pmYes, a player is still subject to penalty under Rule 6-7 even if they are within the parameters of the pace of play.
Lenore,
1- A player should play a provisional prior to going forward to search. If she plays a provisional ball and then finds the original ball unplayable, she must abandon the provisional ball. See Rule 27-2. A provisional ball is used to save time.
2- There is not a ruling in the USGA Rules of Golf regarding counting putts but they have given guidence. Basically, it is up to the Committee to decide. See the following link: http://www.usga.org/RulesFAQ/rules_answer.asp?FAQidx=123&Rule=100
3 – Rule 28 states the following: If the player deems his ball to be unplayable, he must, under penalty of one stroke:
a. Proceed under the stroke and distance provision of Rule 27-1 by playing a ball as nearly as possible at the spot from which the original ball was last played (see Rule 20-5); or
b. Drop a ball behind the point where the ball lay, keeping that point directly between the hole and the spot on which the ball is dropped, with no limit to how far behind that point the ball may be dropped; or
c. Drop a ball within two club-lengths of the spot where the ball lay, but not nearer the hole.
If the unplayable ball is in a bunker, the player may proceed under Clause a, b or c. If he elects to proceed under Clause b or c, a ball must be dropped in the bunker.
January 31st, 2012 at 3:30 pmRule 12 talks about probing for a ball in a water hazard. Probing to me sounds like a fairly delicate procedure. Is it still considered probing if a player uses his club or foot like a broom and sweeps away loose impediments or sweeps aside grass, etc. in the hazard? I guess the question is: Is there a limit to how large scale searching can be in a water hazard?
February 1st, 2012 at 10:10 amJean,
February 1st, 2012 at 12:05 pmProbing is in water only. Probing is considered the area in which the player can reach with hand, club or otherwise. So probably not a real big area.
in our last tournament, two balls that were in play were picked up by other players in the tournament. one ball was picked up by one of the foursome playing in front of the member who hit it into the other fairway. the other was picked up by another player in the same foursome.
in both cases, the players who hit the balls, kept searching for their balls and finally went asking other players if they had picked up any balls. in one case, a player thought another player had picked up a ball so demanded to see the ball that was in his pocket..the other player indeed picked up his ball.
is there any penalty for these other players picking up wrong balls? it is not like playing the wrong ball, but it will cost other players a two stroke penalty for lost balls.
February 7th, 2012 at 12:18 pmStan,
There is no penalty for the player’s in another group picking up the ball.
Rule 18-1 states that if a ball is moved by an outside agency the ball must be replaced, without penalty. Since the player had knowledge that the ball had been moved by the outside agency and could not be retrieve it, he may substitute a new ball and drop it on the estimated spot from where it was moved. (Rule 20-3c Spot not determinable). If he knows the exact spot from where it had been moved he would place the ball on that spot.
February 7th, 2012 at 12:35 pmOk… I’m not sure if I’m stumped or you will be, but here it goes. I’m totally confused about “Ball moved by outside agency”. So if your ball is moved by “Outside Agency” you have to replace the ball and no penalty is incurred. Wind and Water are not Outside Agencies, so you play the ball as it lies, and no penalty is incurred. I think so far so good. So is “Gravity” an “outside agency” or better question which is the “Outside Agency”? Gravity or Slope? I believe Slope can be an “outside agency” since gravity is everywhere. Gravity doesn’t cause the ball to move, slope does. So then there’s this decision…
Now in the example below, no mention is made as to what causes the Ball to Roll.
So then I read in Golf Digest in March 2012 edition, page 54, question 1:
“After you address your ball on the slope of a green, gravity forces it to roll a few inches. Do you incur a penalty?
Answer: “Yes. One stroke, and the ball must be replaced. Rule 18-2b. But if wind had moved the ball, there would be no penalty”
What is the correct answer?
20-3d/1
Placed Ball Rolls into Hole
Q.A replaces his ball on the putting green three feet from the hole. As he is about to address the ball, it rolls into the hole. Should the ball be replaced or is A deemed to have holed out with his previous stroke?
A.The answer depends on whether the ball, when replaced, came to rest on the spot on which it was placed before it started rolling. If it did, A is deemed to have holed out with his previous stroke. If not, A is required to replace the ball (Rule 20-3d). However, if the ball had been overhanging the hole when it was lifted, the provisions of Rule 16-2 would override those of Rule 20-3d.
February 8th, 2012 at 9:00 pmLuis,
February 9th, 2012 at 10:39 amThe confusion lies in whether or not the ball has been addressed. If the ball has been addressed and it is moved by gravity, the player incurs a penalty and the ball must be replaced. In Decision 20-3d/1 the ball had not been addressed and the player had not done anything to cause it to move so the player is required to play the ball as it lies, without penalty. See Decision 18-2b/11. It discusses gravity in relation to the ball moving.
I need some help with a claim in match play. I saw my opponent make an improper drop after going into a water hazard ( just tossed the ball down instead of dropping from shoulder level). I don’t say anything until the hole is completed; let’s say we both score 6. Before we tee off on the next hole I say, “You didn’t drop properly back there. I’m making a claim.” Is that a valid claim,
February 12th, 2012 at 10:04 amor did I have to tell him immediately that the drop was wrong,
or by waiting did I in effect follow Note 1 in Rule 2-5 and disregard the breach,
or was I just be unsporting and indeed, with the claim, I now win the hole?
Bob,
February 13th, 2012 at 9:29 amRule 2-5 states that a claim has been made properly if it has been done prior to any player in the match playing from the nest teeing ground or if it was the last hole of the match, before both players have left the green. Since neither of you had played from the next teeing ground, you have made a valid claim and would win the hole.
I know that on the tee I can smooth out rough areas or even pull up grass around the ball. But what about if my ball ends up on the second tee box while I’m still playing the first hole. Can I still improve the area around my ball if I want?
February 14th, 2012 at 5:34 pmBob,
February 14th, 2012 at 5:54 pmThere is only one teeing ground of the hole being played. All other tee areas are through the green. You would not be permitted to improve the area around you ball as stated in Rule 13-2.
My home course, Teal Bend has trees, berry bushes, tall growth etc lining most of the fairways. They are all marked with red stakes, For the purpose of determining options should I chose not to play from inside the hazard, do I use the options listed under lateral water hazards?
If that is true then would I be ok moving back 75 yards on a line with the hole and where my ball entered the hazard on a dog leg in order to be able to hit over the trees rather than taking a drop 2 club lengths no nearer the hole and having to chip out sideways into the fairway?
Thanks!!
February 14th, 2012 at 8:46 pmMike,
February 15th, 2012 at 2:03 pmYes, when a player is taking relief from a lateral water hazard he has all of his options available to him under Rule 26-1. You may drop behind the hazard if that is your best option.
We live in a very windy golf community so yesterday the new rule of the ball moving from wind came into play alot. The question was asked if you could putt your ball with the ball marker still behind it and if the wind made your ball move while it was still marked do you replace it to the original spot or play it where it ended up.
February 16th, 2012 at 6:52 pmHello, I sometimes play at a small course. And at this course they have there own rules that include moving a ball up to 3 feet. Mainly due to the fact that the course is not flat and has hills. By moving the ball so much you improve your lie with every shot that you can shoot low rounds with. If you post your round with the NCGA you would never be competitive to play at any other courses. So my questions is
February 17th, 2012 at 11:44 amI see no where in the rule book about moving your ball without a penalty is that correct? Would this be a postable round since you moved the ball so much without penalties? Thank you
A player has a long putt and after he makes the stroke he realizes no one is tending the flagstick. He asks another player to do so. The second player indeed goes over to tend the flagstick. So the tending was authorized but after the ball was in motion. Who gets the penalty?
February 17th, 2012 at 3:26 pmWayne,
February 17th, 2012 at 3:27 pmThe ball is in play as soon as the player has plced the ball back in front of the ball marker (See Rule 20-4). The ball marker is there to allow you to get your hands on the ball, without penalty. If the ball moves after being replaced and at rest it must be played from where it came to rest. Also see Rule 18-2b and Rule 20-3d.
Ed,
February 17th, 2012 at 3:31 pmIf a player moves an unattended flagstick while a ball is in motion and the act might influence the movement of the ball, the opponent or fellow-competitor incurs the applicable penalty. The player that asked the opponent or fellow-competor to move the flagstick is not penalized for requesting the flagstick to be moved. See Rule 17-2.
Phil Horton, thank you for your comment. The USGA Handicap System is proactive in terms of posting scores played under Preferred Lies (a.k.a., Winter Rules). That is, the System requires the posting of such rounds unless overall conditions are so poor as to not warrant posting at all. The Handicap System certainly cautions against overuse of Preferred Lies for precisely the reasons you have noted, but you are obligated to post the rounds. Thanks again – Jim Cowan, Director of Course Rating and Handicapping
February 17th, 2012 at 4:06 pmThank you for answering my question on the ball moving because of the wind but I still cannot find anything in the rule book about letting you putt wih your ball marker still behind your ball.Some people say this could be used as an aiming aid.
February 19th, 2012 at 8:42 amWe have a par 3 at our course such that on a foggy morning it is possible with a wayward shot the ball could be in a water hazard, out of bounds or just on the course near the green. If the ball is ob it is always able to be found as there is a large grassy area beyond the ob stakes. If a player hits a shot such that the ball could be in any of the areas, it is ok to hit a provisional because it could be ob. If it is found to be ob the provisional would be used. If it is found in bounds the provisional ball needs to be abandoned. If it’s not found, it has to be in the w/h because there is no where for the ball to hide and again the provo ball has to be abandoned. (We think this is correct so far.) It’s when a player hits a mystery ball and stubbornly proceeds to the drop area and plays a “provisional” ball that we are not sure of the ruling. We think 26-1/3.7 tells us the answer: the original ball (where ever it might be is lost) and he gets a three stroke penalty and if the drop zone is a serious breach, the breach must be corrected. If we are right so far, how does the player go about correcting the serious breach of playing from a wrong place and how is it scored?
February 19th, 2012 at 8:54 pmWayne,
February 20th, 2012 at 8:54 amRule 20-4 states that the ball is in play as soon as it has been placed. Also see Decision 20-4/1. It doesn’t say the ball marker has to be removed to be considered in play. If a player is using his ball marker to indicate a line of play, then he would be penalized under Rule 8-2a. See Decision 8-2a/2.
Rick,
February 20th, 2012 at 9:04 amIf the player has committed a serious breach of playing from a wrong place, Rule 20-7 applies. He must return to the tee and put another ball into play under a penalty of stroke and distance. Strokes played with the ball played from the drop zone do not count in the players score. So, one actual stroke with the original ball that may be out of bounds or in the water hazard, a two stroke penalty for playing from the drop zone without knowledge or virtual certainty, a penalty stroke to return to the tee and he would be playing his 5th stroke.
I know a new rule allows raking a bunker as long as it’s for cleaning up the bunker and is not near where the ball is. The rule book says player, is it also ok for the player’s partner or even caddies?
February 21st, 2012 at 10:19 amBob,
February 21st, 2012 at 11:27 amYes, a caddie or partner may also rake the bunker at any time prior to the player playing, as long as nothing is done to breach Rule 13-2 with respect to the next stroke. The definition of partner says that when the context so admits, the word player includes his partner.