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What are my options for a shot that lands on an island green and rolls into the water at the back of the green assumming a yellow boundary line around the green. Also, same question except the green has a red boundary line. Also,what are my options if the ball flies over the green and lands in the water beyond the back of the green for both a water hazard (yellow boundary line) and lateral hazard (red boundary line)? Thanks
January 5th, 2012 at 1:37 amP.S. I believe I understand how to apply the water hazard rules except how to apply the rules to island greens are confusing.
Gary,
Your options as prescribed in Rule 26-1 are available when your ball has come to rest in a water or later water hazard.
26-1. Relief for Ball in Water Hazard
It is a question of fact whether a ball that has not been found after having been struck toward a water hazard is in the hazard. In the absence of knowledge or virtual certainty that a ball struck toward a water hazard, but not found, is in the hazard, the player must proceed under Rule 27-1.
If a ball is found in a water hazard or if it is known or virtually certain that a ball that has not been found is in the water hazard (whether the ball lies in water or not), the player may under penalty of one stroke:
a. Proceed under the stroke and distance provision of Rule 27-1 by playing a ball as nearly as possible at the spot from which the original ball was last played (see Rule 20-5); or
b. Drop a ball behind the water hazard, keeping the point at which the original ball last crossed the margin of the water hazard directly between the hole and the spot on which the ball is dropped, with no limit to how far behind the water hazard the ball may be dropped; or
c. As additional options available only if the ball last crossed the margin of a lateral water hazard, drop a ball outside the water hazard within two club-lengths of and not nearer the hole than (i) the point where the original ball last crossed the margin of the water hazard or (ii) a point on the opposite margin of the water hazard equidistant from the hole.
When proceeding under this Rule, the player may lift and clean his ball or substitute a ball.
Decision 33-2a/10 gives the Committee direction to establish a dropping zone for an island green when it is maked as a water hazard.
January 6th, 2012 at 9:04 amToday during a fun round my ball came to rest under a clump of mushrooms growing just off the fairway (through the green). I was really quite lucky to both find and be able to identify my ball. As I didn’t have any reference material available I played the ball as it lied believing that no drop (abnormal ground condition) or “harvesting” of the mushrooms (loose impediment, moveable or immovable obstruction) would apply. Later, I was able to find a reference to a mushroom growing on the line of a putt (16-1a/15) suggesting that the committee should remove the mushroom or if the situation is a recurring issue that a local rule treat mushrooms on the putting green as ground under repair. Your thoughts…
January 9th, 2012 at 10:40 pmDennis,
January 10th, 2012 at 10:45 amWhen the ball lies through the green, there is no Rule that would allow you to take relif from mushrooms around your ball. Since they are growing and are attached, they would not be considered loose impediments and the player may not remove them. The Committe would not be justified in declaring these areas as ground under repair.
Ryan. does a player ever have the “right” to finish putting? is it true that when a player say’s “I’ll finish” he/she is really asking permission to hit out of turn,(when the player is no longer the farthest from the hole) and as we know, most people allow it.
January 13th, 2012 at 6:46 amMark,
January 13th, 2012 at 10:45 amIn stroke play, a player may play out of turn without penalty (Rule 10). In match play, there is no penalty, however you opponent may recall the stroke.
May local club tournaments return the sum of the tournament entry fees as cash payouts to the winners orr must all “payouts”, except skins and closet to the pin, be in some form of credit or non-monetary prize?
January 14th, 2012 at 1:38 pmI have a stump the rules question: It is long and complicated. Every year our club has a match play tourney between it’s members. We have both women and men members in our Morro Bay Golf Club. There are only a few women but but last year a woman won the entire tournament. In years past, the men played from the white tees and women played from the red tees to my knowledge. I am the new installed Rules Chair for this club. Consider this the backdrop of the question.
This year the annual match play tourney was announced after it was discussed at our annual meeting in January. The format was changed to the pod format from the consolation format. We paid our entry fees. To my knowledge there was nothing written down concerning the rules of the tourney and what tees should be used.
Consequently, one of our members, Mr. T (hdcp 13) teed off from the red tees against our member, Ms. M (hdcp 20). Ms. M thought the guys were teasing her when she heard that Mr. T was planning to do this. Mr. T is quite a teaser. The day of the tourney she was taken back when he actually did tee off from the red and gave her 13 strokes. She lost the match on the 13th hole.
So, my question is this: must Mr. T play from the red tees for the rest of the tourney? Should the tournament chair or the person running the tournament have designated the tees to be used for the tourney? If he didn’t publish rules, what should be done or not done to rectify the problem?
When I brought this issue to the board via email, I discovered that one of the men teed off from the golf tees while his opponent teed off from the whites. To my knowledge this is the first time that has ever happened.
How should this be handled?
Thank you for your help in this matter.
Sincerely, Ray Jackson, Rules Chair, Morro Bay Golf Course
January 15th, 2012 at 7:43 pmBobG,
January 16th, 2012 at 7:48 amAn amateur golfer must not receive cash in any amount. However, they may receive cash for playing in an OPTIONAL skins game.Decision: 3-1/1 Closest to the Hole, Long Drive and Putting Contests Offering Prize Money
Q. If a player competes in a closest to the hole, long drive or putting contest for a cash prize, is he considered to be “playing for prize money,” in breach of Rule 3-1?
A. In these circumstances, it is not considered that the player is playing for prize money in breach of Rule 3-1. However, it is considered that the player who accepts the prize would be liable for forfeiture of Amateur Status under Rule 3-1.
Please refer to the Rules of Amateur Status in the Rules of Golf.
Ray,
January 16th, 2012 at 7:59 amIt us up to the Committee to establish the conditions of the competition which includes the tees that the players will use for the tournament. They should put the information in writing either on the local rules sheet or in some manner so that there is no confusion. Since the tournament was played without any direction from the Committee, the results should stand as played. See Rule 33-1.
A ball ends up in a pile of leaves or pine needles through the green. The player in searching for the ball moves it accidentally. Now he has to replace the ball with a one stroke penalty. Does he have to replace any of the loose impediments he removed in searching for the ball? Could he, in fact, before replacing the ball remove all the leaves or pine needles? Or must the lie be recreated as is required in a bunker?
January 16th, 2012 at 12:31 pmDoes Mr. T have to play remaining matches from the red tees? or does it matter?
January 16th, 2012 at 3:43 pmDrew,
January 16th, 2012 at 6:46 pmThe answer depends on where the ball is located. If the ball is in a hazard, Rule 12-1b states that the player must re-cover the ball but is permitted to leave a small part of the ball visible. If the ball lies in an area through the green, the Rules of Golf do not prohibit the removal of loose impediments prior to the replacement of the ball.
Ray,
January 16th, 2012 at 6:53 pmSince each match is considered it’s own seperate competition the Committee would be justified in establishing which tees they wish the competitors to play. Mr. T could be required to play the tees that the Committee establishes.
please! what is the actual ruling? does any given player have a “right” to finish putting? (lets assume he does not have to stand in anyone’s line or through-line) If this player misses his 8 footer and leaves 16″ inches, then says ” I’ll Finish”, does he have a right to finish or will he be given that privilege by the remaining, further from the hole players? ( we have a player that takes to much time during the “I’ll finish”…re-mark,clean a clean ball, re-align,read break again…etc. I feel he is hitting out of turn and thus may not be allotted the full amount of time normally given. IE. if you take to long, your “right” may be taken away next time. sadly enough, by doing so are groups flirting with breaking rule 1-3? please help!
January 18th, 2012 at 8:48 amMark,
January 18th, 2012 at 6:35 pmIt is most common that players that wish to continious putt do not go through their entire routine prior to putting. If you would rather have the player wait until others putt, it is certainly understandable to ask him to wait until others that are further from the hole putt. There is no penalty under Rule 1-3 or 10-2b.
If a person puts a tee in their mouth,(pointing at the ground), for the express purpose of making sure they keep their head still while hitting their ball during a round of golf, it that using an aide?
January 19th, 2012 at 9:48 pmLucille,
January 20th, 2012 at 11:00 amThe player would be disqualified under Rule 14-3 for using equipment in an unusual manner to assist her in making a stroke.
Would Rule 14-3 apply if a lolly-pop stick or cigarette were used instead of a tee, with the same intention? Does the lolly-pop stick or cig. become part of your equipment?
January 21st, 2012 at 3:38 pmI had the good fortune to work as a marshall at the Sony Open in Hawaii last week. One situation came up that was curious. A player hit a ball into the lateral hazard near where I was spotting so it was known that the ball was in the hazard. After conferring with me for a moment about where the ball last crossed into the hazard, the player looked in the hazard near where we were; then he walked back to a bridge that took him to the other side of the hazard to look for the ball some more. He then came back to my side. By this time five minutes had clearly passed, but before he actually dropped a ball, another marshall yelled from the other side of the hazard that he might know where the ball was. So the player went back to the other side to look again. In fact, a ball was found and it was his ball, still in the hazard. After all this he ended up dropping a ball on my side of the hazard and played on. My question is: if he had decided to try to play the ball out of the hazard could he have done so even though it was found and identified well after five minutes of searching? Or was he now limited to one of the drop options for a ball “lost” in a lateral water hazard? And, is there ever a pace of play penalty on the PGA tour?
January 22nd, 2012 at 1:58 pmLucille,
January 23rd, 2012 at 9:47 amThe definition of equipment is anything used, worn or carried by the player. So a lolly-pop or cigarette used for the purpose of assisting a player in making a stroke would be considered a violation of Rule 14-3.
Jerry,
January 23rd, 2012 at 9:53 amThe player would not be entitled to play the ball after it was not found within five minutes of beginning to search for it. Since the ball was lost, the player was required to proceed under his options as prescribed in Rule 26. There is very rarely a pace of play penalty issued on the PGA Tour. Most pace of play issues are dealt with by monetary fines to the players.
On a Par 3 a ball is hooked onto the green, hits the green rolls hard across the green and into a red hazard and continues rolling down hill (all while still in the hazard) another 20 yards under a cyclone fence and proceeds to stop on the other side of the fence. Is the player intitled to drop under the rules of a red hazard or does this player play the ball as out of bounds and hits from the tee box again?
January 23rd, 2012 at 7:36 pmOn my home course our cart path turns into a gravel cart path for about 250 yards and then back into a normal paved cart path. The debate goes on if a player shall recieve cart path relief from that gravel cart path. What does it take to be considered a cart path (Dirt, Gravel, Cement)? And in that situation does a player get relief from it?
January 23rd, 2012 at 7:45 pmMario,
January 24th, 2012 at 8:45 amIf the cyclone fence defines the out of bounds, the ball lies out of bounds and the player must proceed under stroke and distance. See Decision 26-1/7.
Mario,
January 24th, 2012 at 8:53 amIt is up to the Committee to determine how the cart path is played. Since the gravel is considered an artificial substance added to the course it would fall under the definition of an obstruction. By definition, this area of cart path would be considered an obstruction and players would be entitled to relief as prescribed in Rule 24-2. However, the Committee may wish to deem that area to be an integral part of the course and the gravel would be considered loose impedements. See Decision 24/9 and 23/14.
Is there any definition to the maximum distance a ball marker can be from the ball position? Is it alright to touch the ball when placing the marker?
January 30th, 2012 at 3:01 pmBill,
January 30th, 2012 at 4:24 pmDecision 20-1/20 states that a player has not accurately marked his ball if he places the ball marker two inches behind the ball. A player is permitted to touch or move the ball when marking, lifting, placing or re-placing the ball (Rule 20).
Decision 13-4/16 tells us there is no penalty for removing the loose impediment. In the question, however, the player proceeded under Rule 26. If he had found his ball after looking a bit longer in a playable spot in the hazard would he have had to replace that loose impediment before playing his ball even if the two balls were not near each other?, or what if they were near each other?
January 30th, 2012 at 5:55 pmRick,
January 31st, 2012 at 8:53 amWhen he lifted the loose impediment he was operating under Rule 12-1b shich permitted him to do so without penalty. He would have to replace the loose impediment if it was effecting his lie. If he subsequently finds his ball anywhere, he would not be penalized.
Hi Ryan,
January 31st, 2012 at 2:34 pmThere are several decisions (e.g. 8-1/15, 31-4/2 6-8a/2.5) that say no penalty provided there is no undue delay. In NCGA tourneys can there be an undue delay penalty even if the players are still meeting the pace of play conditions of competition?
1- If a player hits her second shot on the middle of the fairway and it lands in the bunker, and she can’t see where it exactly landed, is she allowed to walk up to see where the ball landed? Since she couldn’t see where the ball landed, should she have hit a “provisional ball” first before walking up to the bunker to check if the ball was unplayable or not? What rule is this in the USGA rule book?
2- If you land on the green and start putting and the ball goes off the back of the green, does the next shot count as a putt? In other words, once one starts putting, you must continue to putt?? Is there a ruling in the USGA rule book?
3- If a ball is deemed unplayable in the bunker, must the dropped ball still be in the bunker?
January 31st, 2012 at 3:10 pmDan,
January 31st, 2012 at 3:24 pmYes, a player is still subject to penalty under Rule 6-7 even if they are within the parameters of the pace of play.
Lenore,
1- A player should play a provisional prior to going forward to search. If she plays a provisional ball and then finds the original ball unplayable, she must abandon the provisional ball. See Rule 27-2. A provisional ball is used to save time.
2- There is not a ruling in the USGA Rules of Golf regarding counting putts but they have given guidence. Basically, it is up to the Committee to decide. See the following link: http://www.usga.org/RulesFAQ/rules_answer.asp?FAQidx=123&Rule=100
3 – Rule 28 states the following: If the player deems his ball to be unplayable, he must, under penalty of one stroke:
a. Proceed under the stroke and distance provision of Rule 27-1 by playing a ball as nearly as possible at the spot from which the original ball was last played (see Rule 20-5); or
b. Drop a ball behind the point where the ball lay, keeping that point directly between the hole and the spot on which the ball is dropped, with no limit to how far behind that point the ball may be dropped; or
c. Drop a ball within two club-lengths of the spot where the ball lay, but not nearer the hole.
If the unplayable ball is in a bunker, the player may proceed under Clause a, b or c. If he elects to proceed under Clause b or c, a ball must be dropped in the bunker.
January 31st, 2012 at 3:30 pmRule 12 talks about probing for a ball in a water hazard. Probing to me sounds like a fairly delicate procedure. Is it still considered probing if a player uses his club or foot like a broom and sweeps away loose impediments or sweeps aside grass, etc. in the hazard? I guess the question is: Is there a limit to how large scale searching can be in a water hazard?
February 1st, 2012 at 10:10 amJean,
February 1st, 2012 at 12:05 pmProbing is in water only. Probing is considered the area in which the player can reach with hand, club or otherwise. So probably not a real big area.
in our last tournament, two balls that were in play were picked up by other players in the tournament. one ball was picked up by one of the foursome playing in front of the member who hit it into the other fairway. the other was picked up by another player in the same foursome.
in both cases, the players who hit the balls, kept searching for their balls and finally went asking other players if they had picked up any balls. in one case, a player thought another player had picked up a ball so demanded to see the ball that was in his pocket..the other player indeed picked up his ball.
is there any penalty for these other players picking up wrong balls? it is not like playing the wrong ball, but it will cost other players a two stroke penalty for lost balls.
February 7th, 2012 at 12:18 pmStan,
There is no penalty for the player’s in another group picking up the ball.
Rule 18-1 states that if a ball is moved by an outside agency the ball must be replaced, without penalty. Since the player had knowledge that the ball had been moved by the outside agency and could not be retrieve it, he may substitute a new ball and drop it on the estimated spot from where it was moved. (Rule 20-3c Spot not determinable). If he knows the exact spot from where it had been moved he would place the ball on that spot.
February 7th, 2012 at 12:35 pmOk… I’m not sure if I’m stumped or you will be, but here it goes. I’m totally confused about “Ball moved by outside agency”. So if your ball is moved by “Outside Agency” you have to replace the ball and no penalty is incurred. Wind and Water are not Outside Agencies, so you play the ball as it lies, and no penalty is incurred. I think so far so good. So is “Gravity” an “outside agency” or better question which is the “Outside Agency”? Gravity or Slope? I believe Slope can be an “outside agency” since gravity is everywhere. Gravity doesn’t cause the ball to move, slope does. So then there’s this decision…
Now in the example below, no mention is made as to what causes the Ball to Roll.
So then I read in Golf Digest in March 2012 edition, page 54, question 1:
“After you address your ball on the slope of a green, gravity forces it to roll a few inches. Do you incur a penalty?
Answer: “Yes. One stroke, and the ball must be replaced. Rule 18-2b. But if wind had moved the ball, there would be no penalty”
What is the correct answer?
20-3d/1
Placed Ball Rolls into Hole
Q.A replaces his ball on the putting green three feet from the hole. As he is about to address the ball, it rolls into the hole. Should the ball be replaced or is A deemed to have holed out with his previous stroke?
A.The answer depends on whether the ball, when replaced, came to rest on the spot on which it was placed before it started rolling. If it did, A is deemed to have holed out with his previous stroke. If not, A is required to replace the ball (Rule 20-3d). However, if the ball had been overhanging the hole when it was lifted, the provisions of Rule 16-2 would override those of Rule 20-3d.
February 8th, 2012 at 9:00 pmLuis,
February 9th, 2012 at 10:39 amThe confusion lies in whether or not the ball has been addressed. If the ball has been addressed and it is moved by gravity, the player incurs a penalty and the ball must be replaced. In Decision 20-3d/1 the ball had not been addressed and the player had not done anything to cause it to move so the player is required to play the ball as it lies, without penalty. See Decision 18-2b/11. It discusses gravity in relation to the ball moving.
I need some help with a claim in match play. I saw my opponent make an improper drop after going into a water hazard ( just tossed the ball down instead of dropping from shoulder level). I don’t say anything until the hole is completed; let’s say we both score 6. Before we tee off on the next hole I say, “You didn’t drop properly back there. I’m making a claim.” Is that a valid claim,
February 12th, 2012 at 10:04 amor did I have to tell him immediately that the drop was wrong,
or by waiting did I in effect follow Note 1 in Rule 2-5 and disregard the breach,
or was I just be unsporting and indeed, with the claim, I now win the hole?
Bob,
February 13th, 2012 at 9:29 amRule 2-5 states that a claim has been made properly if it has been done prior to any player in the match playing from the nest teeing ground or if it was the last hole of the match, before both players have left the green. Since neither of you had played from the next teeing ground, you have made a valid claim and would win the hole.
I know that on the tee I can smooth out rough areas or even pull up grass around the ball. But what about if my ball ends up on the second tee box while I’m still playing the first hole. Can I still improve the area around my ball if I want?
February 14th, 2012 at 5:34 pmBob,
February 14th, 2012 at 5:54 pmThere is only one teeing ground of the hole being played. All other tee areas are through the green. You would not be permitted to improve the area around you ball as stated in Rule 13-2.
My home course, Teal Bend has trees, berry bushes, tall growth etc lining most of the fairways. They are all marked with red stakes, For the purpose of determining options should I chose not to play from inside the hazard, do I use the options listed under lateral water hazards?
If that is true then would I be ok moving back 75 yards on a line with the hole and where my ball entered the hazard on a dog leg in order to be able to hit over the trees rather than taking a drop 2 club lengths no nearer the hole and having to chip out sideways into the fairway?
Thanks!!
February 14th, 2012 at 8:46 pmMike,
February 15th, 2012 at 2:03 pmYes, when a player is taking relief from a lateral water hazard he has all of his options available to him under Rule 26-1. You may drop behind the hazard if that is your best option.
We live in a very windy golf community so yesterday the new rule of the ball moving from wind came into play alot. The question was asked if you could putt your ball with the ball marker still behind it and if the wind made your ball move while it was still marked do you replace it to the original spot or play it where it ended up.
February 16th, 2012 at 6:52 pmHello, I sometimes play at a small course. And at this course they have there own rules that include moving a ball up to 3 feet. Mainly due to the fact that the course is not flat and has hills. By moving the ball so much you improve your lie with every shot that you can shoot low rounds with. If you post your round with the NCGA you would never be competitive to play at any other courses. So my questions is
February 17th, 2012 at 11:44 amI see no where in the rule book about moving your ball without a penalty is that correct? Would this be a postable round since you moved the ball so much without penalties? Thank you
A player has a long putt and after he makes the stroke he realizes no one is tending the flagstick. He asks another player to do so. The second player indeed goes over to tend the flagstick. So the tending was authorized but after the ball was in motion. Who gets the penalty?
February 17th, 2012 at 3:26 pmWayne,
February 17th, 2012 at 3:27 pmThe ball is in play as soon as the player has plced the ball back in front of the ball marker (See Rule 20-4). The ball marker is there to allow you to get your hands on the ball, without penalty. If the ball moves after being replaced and at rest it must be played from where it came to rest. Also see Rule 18-2b and Rule 20-3d.
Ed,
February 17th, 2012 at 3:31 pmIf a player moves an unattended flagstick while a ball is in motion and the act might influence the movement of the ball, the opponent or fellow-competitor incurs the applicable penalty. The player that asked the opponent or fellow-competor to move the flagstick is not penalized for requesting the flagstick to be moved. See Rule 17-2.
Phil Horton, thank you for your comment. The USGA Handicap System is proactive in terms of posting scores played under Preferred Lies (a.k.a., Winter Rules). That is, the System requires the posting of such rounds unless overall conditions are so poor as to not warrant posting at all. The Handicap System certainly cautions against overuse of Preferred Lies for precisely the reasons you have noted, but you are obligated to post the rounds. Thanks again – Jim Cowan, Director of Course Rating and Handicapping
February 17th, 2012 at 4:06 pmThank you for answering my question on the ball moving because of the wind but I still cannot find anything in the rule book about letting you putt wih your ball marker still behind your ball.Some people say this could be used as an aiming aid.
February 19th, 2012 at 8:42 amWe have a par 3 at our course such that on a foggy morning it is possible with a wayward shot the ball could be in a water hazard, out of bounds or just on the course near the green. If the ball is ob it is always able to be found as there is a large grassy area beyond the ob stakes. If a player hits a shot such that the ball could be in any of the areas, it is ok to hit a provisional because it could be ob. If it is found to be ob the provisional would be used. If it is found in bounds the provisional ball needs to be abandoned. If it’s not found, it has to be in the w/h because there is no where for the ball to hide and again the provo ball has to be abandoned. (We think this is correct so far.) It’s when a player hits a mystery ball and stubbornly proceeds to the drop area and plays a “provisional” ball that we are not sure of the ruling. We think 26-1/3.7 tells us the answer: the original ball (where ever it might be is lost) and he gets a three stroke penalty and if the drop zone is a serious breach, the breach must be corrected. If we are right so far, how does the player go about correcting the serious breach of playing from a wrong place and how is it scored?
February 19th, 2012 at 8:54 pmWayne,
February 20th, 2012 at 8:54 amRule 20-4 states that the ball is in play as soon as it has been placed. Also see Decision 20-4/1. It doesn’t say the ball marker has to be removed to be considered in play. If a player is using his ball marker to indicate a line of play, then he would be penalized under Rule 8-2a. See Decision 8-2a/2.
Rick,
February 20th, 2012 at 9:04 amIf the player has committed a serious breach of playing from a wrong place, Rule 20-7 applies. He must return to the tee and put another ball into play under a penalty of stroke and distance. Strokes played with the ball played from the drop zone do not count in the players score. So, one actual stroke with the original ball that may be out of bounds or in the water hazard, a two stroke penalty for playing from the drop zone without knowledge or virtual certainty, a penalty stroke to return to the tee and he would be playing his 5th stroke.
I know a new rule allows raking a bunker as long as it’s for cleaning up the bunker and is not near where the ball is. The rule book says player, is it also ok for the player’s partner or even caddies?
February 21st, 2012 at 10:19 amBob,
February 21st, 2012 at 11:27 amYes, a caddie or partner may also rake the bunker at any time prior to the player playing, as long as nothing is done to breach Rule 13-2 with respect to the next stroke. The definition of partner says that when the context so admits, the word player includes his partner.
Our board has implemented a local rule on one hole where relief is given if the ball is laying on bed of rocks in front of an OB fence. The boarder of this 3ft wide rock surface has a cement strip (aka lawn mow strip) holding the rocks in place. A ball comes to rest an inch away from the mow strip, but when grounding the club, it rests on the mow strip. Should relief be given from the mow strip?
February 24th, 2012 at 8:56 amRick,
February 24th, 2012 at 10:43 amThe mow strip would, by definition, be considered a immovable obstruction and players would be entitled to relief as prescribed in Rule 24-2.
A golfer thinking his original ball (ball A) is in a water hazard drops and plays (ball B) with a one stroke penalty, finds ( ball A) his original beyond the water hazard. He states that because he believed his original ball (ball A) was lost in the water hazard. He has to abandon ( ball A) his original and finishes out the hole with (ball B) the ball played under the belief his first ball was lost in the hazard. The discussion is along the lines that once he discovered the original ball he has to abandon ( ball B) the ball play from in front of the hazard and play out the original ball with a two stroke penalty for playing from the wrong place and then correcting the mistake? He took a 6 which turned out to be only a one stroke penalty for a ball lost in a hazard.
February 25th, 2012 at 10:43 pmGerardo,
Two seperate Decisions apply to this situation (see below) and the key component is the knowledge or virtual certainty that the player has when he drops from the hazard. Knolwdge or virtual certainty is a requirement of the water hazard rule. I cannot tell, by your description, whether the player had known or was virtually certain the ball was in the hazard. If he was virtually certain the ball was in the hazard Decision 26-1/3.5 applies. Without knowledge or virtual certainty, Decision 26-1/3.7 applies.
26-1/3.5 Ball Dropped Under Water Hazard Rule with Knowledge or Virtual Certainty; Original Ball Then Found
Q.A player’s ball is struck towards a water hazard. It is known or virtually certain that the player’s ball is in the water hazard, and he drops a ball under Rule 26-1b. Before he plays the dropped ball, his original ball is found within the five-minute search period. What is the ruling?
A.As it was known or virtually certain that the ball was in the water hazard when the player put the substituted ball into play, that ball was correctly substituted and he may not play the original ball.
If the original ball was found in the water hazard and this discovery affects the reference point for proceeding under Rule 26-1b, resulting in the substituted ball having been dropped in a wrong place, the player must correct the error under Rule 20-6. The player must proceed in accordance with any of the applicable options under Rule 26-1 with respect to the correct reference point (see Decisions 20-6/2 and 26-1/16). Otherwise, Rule 20-6 does not apply and the player must continue play with the dropped ball. In either case, the player incurs a penalty of one stroke under Rule 26-1.
In the unlikely event that the original ball was found outside the water hazard, the player must continue with the dropped ball under penalty of one stroke (Rule 26-1).
26-1/4 Ball Dropped Under Water Hazard Rule Without It Being Known or Virtually Certain Ball in Hazard; Original Ball Then Found
Q.A player’s ball is struck towards a water hazard and is not found. It is neither known nor virtually certain that the player’s ball is in the water hazard, but he drops a ball under Rule 26-1b. Before he plays the dropped ball, his original ball is found within the five-minute search period. What is the ruling?
February 26th, 2012 at 8:44 amA.It was neither known nor virtually certain that the player’s ball was in the water hazard when he put the substituted ball into play, and, therefore, that ball was incorrectly substituted under an inapplicable Rule.
The player must correct his error under Rule 20-6 by abandoning the substituted ball and continuing play with the original ball. If the original ball was found inside the water hazard, the player may proceed under Rule 26-1.
If the player failed to correct his improper procedure and played the dropped ball, he has proceeded under an inapplicable Rule and incurred a penalty (see Decision 34-3/6). The ruling would be that the player has proceeded under Rule 27-1 (the only Rule that applied to his situation), incurring the one-stroke penalty under that Rule. Additionally, as he played the ball from a wrong place (i.e., a place not permitted by Rule 27-1), he incurred the general penalty, loss of hole in match play or two strokes in stroke play, for a breach of Rule 27-1. In stroke play, the Committee must determine whether the player committed a serious breach when he played from the wrong place (Rule 20-7c).
On a par 5 with a small pond in front of the green, my parnter hit his second shot over the oak trees that guard a slight dog leg left in front of the pond. After an extensive (but legal) search, we can not find his ball. Not knowing if the ball was deflected by the tops of the oak trees, or ended up in the water, the player declares a lost ball and returns to the proper spot to hit his next (4th) shot. He lays up in front of the water this time, but before he hits his next shot, another player who had hit his ball up to the green, spots a ball in the cup. The ball is identified as the players original ball. The opponents declare that, since the player had put another ball in play after declaring his first ball as lost, the player must finish the hole with second ball which is now in front of the water. I declare that since my partner’s ball was in the hole, the hole is completed at that point and the proper score for my partner is a double eagle. The opponents then claim that the second ball hit by the player constitutes hitting a ‘wrong ball’. I declare that the hole was finished and the player can declare that ball a practice ball. What’s the rule here?
February 29th, 2012 at 5:31 pmTwo questions:
1) Is it correct to say that if a player has not grounded his club and the ball begins to move after the player has begun his stroke, hitting the moving ball is without penalty?
February 29th, 2012 at 8:48 pm2) Similarly, if the player has grounded his club and the ball begins to move after the start of the swing because of a gust of wind, and the player hits the moving ball, there is no penalty?
Kip,
March 1st, 2012 at 9:06 amThat is a pretty remarkable occurrence! Decision 1-1/2 states that the score with the original ball counts. The play of the hole was completed when the player holed his original ball.
Bob,
March 1st, 2012 at 9:35 am1) Yes, that is correct per Rule 14-5. However, if the player caused the ball to move, he would be penalized one stroke under Rule 18-2a.
2) Yes, that is also correct per the exception to Rule 18-2b.
If non-burrowing animal droppings adhere to a ball that is not on the green may the ball be cleaned? IE Goose and Mud Hen droppings can be a real problem in the Bay Area.
March 1st, 2012 at 2:13 pmBob,
March 1st, 2012 at 3:48 pmUnfortunately, the player would not be permitted to clean the ball under these circumstances. If the player cleans the ball, he would incur a penalty of one stroke under Rule 21.
If you start putting on the green and you putt off the green, do you get the flag back in the hole if you want it.
March 1st, 2012 at 5:06 pmErnie,
March 1st, 2012 at 5:16 pmYes, a player may have the flagstick put back in the hole prior to playing a stroke from through the green. There is no penalty for striking a flagstick in the hole, except when it is being attended, held up or the stroke has been played from the putting green. There is nothing in the Rules that prohibit a flagstick, after being removed, replaced back in the hole. For additional information about the Rules governing the flagstick, see Rule 17.
A player is using his putter to mark his ball on the green. He slips and moves the ball with his putter. What is the ruling
March 3rd, 2012 at 5:27 pmRichard,
March 3rd, 2012 at 11:30 pmIf the movement of the ball was directly attributable to the marking of the ball there is no penalty and the ball must be replaced. See Rule 20-1. If it was not directly attributable the player is penalized one stroke under Rule 18-2a. In your example it seems that the slipping is not directly attributable to the marking of the ball.
Suppose I am 20 feet off the green and want to putt the ball through the short grass of the apron that fronts the green. There is a small pine branch 10 feet away on the apron on the line of the putt (even though it is not technically a putt). Am I allowed to move the small pine branch?
March 4th, 2012 at 8:08 pmSecond question (hope you don’t mind). I’ve taken to trying to putt like Dave Stockton who grounds his putter in front of the ball. Am I allowed to ground my putter in front of the ball if I am putting on the fringe or even further off the green?
March 4th, 2012 at 8:11 pmP.F.
March 4th, 2012 at 8:45 pmThe branch is a loose impediment and it may be moved except when the ball and the branch lie in the same hazard. If the ball moves the player would be subject to penalty under Rule 18-2a. See Rule 23.
P.F.
March 4th, 2012 at 8:47 pmYes, the club may be grounded in front of the ball without penalty. By definition, the ball is addressed if the club is grounded immediatly in front or behind the ball.
Our club has a small pond that is unmarked. There are no stakes and no painted lines. We had a situation today where a player’s ball was in the reeds next to the pond. As we were playing winter rules, a club-length move would take him out of the reeds and let him take a shot at the green.
Assuming the unmarked pond is a hazard, where does the hazard begin? Is it the water line or the line of unmown vegetation around the pond? What if the grass is mowed right up to the water line?
Lastly, the pond sits between the tee and green on a par 3. If it were marked it would be yellow-staked, but because it is not marked, does that allow you to play it as a lateral hazard?
In our situation, we gave the player his club-length bump, but there were five opinions on how this should be played. I don’t think the club will stake the pond, so it would be good if we know the correct way to handle this situation in the future.
Thanks in advance,
Tim Corey
March 5th, 2012 at 1:39 amRedding, CA
Tim,
Decision 26/3 describes how we are to treat an unmarked water hazard. It is up to the Committee to define the margins of the water hazard and also decide on whether or not the hazard should be a lateral water hazard. If the club will not properly mark the hazard, then the Committee in charge of the competition needs to define by Local Rule the status of the hazard so players understand how to proceed properly under the Rules.
Also, I am afraid that you are proceeding incorrectly under “Winter Rules”. The Local Rule for “Winter Rules” only permits a player to lift, clean and place the ball in a closely mown are through the green. See appendix I in the Rules of Golf.
March 5th, 2012 at 10:52 amOther than just golfing courtesy, is there any rule that would cover a player talking or shouting during an opponent’s swing to distract him and cause a bad shot?
March 5th, 2012 at 11:38 amVic,
March 5th, 2012 at 12:20 pmRule 33-7 permits a Committe to impose a penalty of disqualification to a player that is guilty of a serious breach of etiquette.
Hi Ryan,
Two quick questions.
1) Player A marks and lifts his ball correctly on the green. Player B asks him to move his mark to the side because A’s mark is in his line. Must “A” place a second coin or his ball where his is moving his mark to and then remak if he used his ball or is he allowed to simply move his mark from one end of the putter head to the other saying that the putter itself is marking the ball as he moves the mark?
2) When moving the ball in ! above may a player use something else than a club head to measure. ie the putter grip, his foot etc?
Thanks!!
March 6th, 2012 at 7:08 pmHi again,
The usual winter tree trimming etc is taking place at our club. Large branches cut from tree are piled in lateral hazards with the intent of running them through a chipper and spreading the chips. While the baranches are in the hazards must they be considered loose impediments or may they be considered ground under repair?
Also if my ball is laying outside the boundary of a lateral hazard and a branch is laying such that it is partway in the hazard and partway outside it may I move it as a loose impediment?
Thanks!
March 6th, 2012 at 7:43 pmIf i drop a ball under any of the rules that allow it does term not nearer the hole with respect to where the ball settles after the drop refer to the original point that i was taking relief from? Or does it mean the the ball cannot bounce forward/closer to the hole but still settle at a point farther from the hole the the point from where I took relief?
Thanks
March 6th, 2012 at 7:55 pmMike S,
March 7th, 2012 at 10:29 amThe procedure in the Note to Rule 20-1 is a suggestion. The player may use any method that will ensure that they get the ball back to its original position. In order to accurately replace the ball on the spot from which it was lifted, the steps used to move the ball or ball-marker to the side should be reversed.
Mike S.,
March 7th, 2012 at 10:31 amWhether the branches are loose impediments or ground under repair, the player is not entitled to relief from either when the ball lies in the hazard. A player is entitled to remove loose impediments within a water hazard when their ball lies outside the hazard. See Rule 23 and 13-4.
Mike S.,
March 7th, 2012 at 10:34 amWhen dropping a ball under a Rule, the ball must not strike a part of the course nearer the hole then where the original ball lay, the nearest point of relief, or the point where it last crossed the margin of a hazard. See Rule 2-2c for the instances in which a ball is required to be re-dropped.
A player strikes the ball more than once in the course of a stroke. She is hitting her third shot out of the sand, but when the ball gets airborn, she strikes it again. Does she count the 1st stroke and the accidental strike and the penalty? Because she has hit the ball twice and add a penalty stroke. Rule 14.4 has a little grey area.
March 9th, 2012 at 4:24 pmLucille,
March 10th, 2012 at 8:14 pmNo matter how many times the ball is hit during the stroke, the player must count the stroke and add a penalty stroke. She would lie 4 and be required to play the ball where it came to rest. (Rule 14-4)
My question isn’t specific to rules but on conforming clubs. I really need help knowing what tournaments as an amateur I’m allowed to play in with clubs that don’t conform to the new grooves rule. I heard that for amateurs it hasn’t changed yet, but that for some tournaments like U.S Amateur or U.S Open qualifying it has. I ask because I used to play college golf and took time off. I’m trying to get back playing in all the major amateur tournaments and need to know if I should change my clubs or if it’s ok in all tournaments to use the old grooves. I play in most of the Major NCGA events and USGA Events. I play the Ping s58 irons and titliest spin milled wedges. My friend told me they were illegal and that I needed to get conforming clubs to play in the serious amateur tournaments. If you can help me it’s much appreciated because I will soon register for amateur events and wouldn’t want to register for one I couldn’t play in with the clubs I have now. Thanks
March 17th, 2012 at 10:57 amNathan,
March 19th, 2012 at 8:03 amThe groove specification condition of competition has not been adopted for NCGA events. The USGA has adopted the condition of competiton for all of its Open events (US Open, Women’s Open, Senior Open). It is not in effect for the US Amateur.
Thank you so much? I assume for other USGA tourneys like the mid-am and pub links are o.k as well, but what about national or other state events like the western Amateur, notheastern amateur, porter cup,pacific coast amateur, big tournaments like those? Do they just follow USGA guidlines or are other tournaments changing without the USGA first?
March 19th, 2012 at 10:31 amNathan,
March 19th, 2012 at 10:46 amAll other USGA events, escept the Opens, do not adopt the Condition of Competition. I am pretty sure that all other major amateur events do not adopt the condition. You should check with the Committee of each championship for clarification.
I know that in NCGA 2 person team tourneys if one player has a 4 hdcp for example and the partner has a 17, there is a additional deduction because of the gap between the two hdcps. Does the same policy hold in Zone 4 person teams? For example would there be any additional adjustments if the team hdcps were 4, 11, 12 17?
March 19th, 2012 at 11:51 amMike,
March 19th, 2012 at 11:57 amNo, the reduction under the Note to Section 9-4b of the USGA’s Handicap Manual only applies to Four-Ball events and not to Best Ball of Four Player events.
A fellow players ball comes to rest a few inch from the hole and I have a tough down hill chip can I ask the player to leave his ball there and do not mark? Or is that up to him if he wants to mark it.
March 26th, 2012 at 9:05 amMario,
March 26th, 2012 at 9:33 amNo, you may not ask the player to leave his ball in a position to assist you. If you say nothing, there is no penalty. Rule 22 states: In stroke play, if the Committee determines that competitors have agreed not to lift a ball that might assist any competitor, they are disqualified.
The ninth hole at Indian Creek Country Club, a par three, is out of bounds on the right side of the green and is so designated by white stakes. In addition, there is a flower bed with a white plastic edge that is aligned with the white stakes. Recently a club member hit his ball to the right and the ball rolled and stopped against the plastic edge. We have been debaiting whether or not the ball was in bound or was out of bound.
Based upon the USGA Rules of Golf we determinded the ball was still in bound.
Did we make the correct discussion.
Thanks
March 26th, 2012 at 5:23 pmEd Kopfle
Indian Creek Men’s Golf Club
NCGA Handicap Chairman
Ed,
I am not sure I have a clear picture of the situation. I would recommend looking at the definition of Out of Bounds for clarification.
“Out of bounds’’ is beyond the boundaries of the course or any part of the course so marked by the Committee.
When out of bounds is defined by reference to stakes or a fence or as being beyond stakes or a fence, the out of bounds line is determined by the nearest inside points at ground level of the stakes or fence posts (excluding angled supports). When both stakes and lines are used to indicate out of bounds, the stakes identify out of bounds and the lines define out of bounds. When out of bounds is defined by a line on the ground, the line itself is out of bounds. The out of bounds line extends vertically upwards and downwards.
A ball is out of bounds when all of it lies out of bounds. A player may stand out of bounds to play a ball lying within bounds.
Objects defining out of bounds such as walls, fences, stakes and railings are not obstructions and are deemed to be fixed. Stakes identifying out of bounds are not obstructions and are deemed to be fixed.
Note 1: Stakes or lines used to define out of bounds should be white.
Note 2: A Committee may make a Local Rule declaring stakes identifying but not defining out of bounds to be obstructions.
March 26th, 2012 at 9:35 pmI have a question regarding tournament rounds and distances. Its my understanding that you are allowed to receive information on distances. For example, on a par 3, a competitor can ask me “How far to the flag” and I would not be in violation of any rules if I responded with “156 Yards.” My question is: am I obligated to respond? Can I decline?
March 28th, 2012 at 6:22 pmJohn,
March 29th, 2012 at 8:39 amYou are correct that Rule 8-1 permits players to exchange distance information without penalty. No, you are not obligated to respond to the question regarding the distance to the hole.
My question concerns so called Winter Rules where a player may lift, clean, and place his ball. What are the rules regarding posting his score under these conditions?
March 31st, 2012 at 2:39 pmPhil,
April 2nd, 2012 at 8:06 amRule 7-1 of the USGA Handicap Manual states that rounds played with the local rule in effect for preffered lies must be posted unless the Handicap Committee along with the Tournament Committee agree that course conditions are so poor that posting should be suspended.
At a recent high school match at which lift, clean and place was in effect a player did the following: 1) failed to mark the ball before he lifted it, and 2) before putting the ball back (rule under effect is within 6 inches), he used his foot to press down and level the grass where he wanted to place the ball. Our ruling was that he got a 1 stroke penalty for failing to mark plus a 2 stroke penalty for “preparing his lie.” Do you agree with that ruling?
April 2nd, 2012 at 8:50 pmMike,
April 3rd, 2012 at 8:25 amYes, I agree that these are two seperate breaches of the Rules. A one stroke penalty under Rule 18-2a and an additional two stroke penalty under Rule 13-2 (improving the lie of the ball).
The plug mark for my shot was completely in a very muddy area of a water hazard, right next to the hazard line. The inertia of the ball carried it out of the hazard and into a closely mown area of the course. The ball was underground, and with quite a bit of difficulty I retrieved it. So, the plug mark was in the water hazard, the ball underground outside the hazard. Do I get a drop for a plugged ball or do I need to take an unplayable. (This actually happened on hole 12 at the River Island Country Club) Thanks Alot.
April 3rd, 2012 at 9:27 pmGary,
April 4th, 2012 at 9:45 amPer Decision 13/4, an embedded ball is considered to be lying in the part of the course where it entered the ground. Your ball is deemed to lie in the water hazard and you may proceed under your options as prescribed in Rule 26-1.
Hi Ryan,
April 4th, 2012 at 4:19 pmAfter seeing the question above regarding winter rules I reread the USGA document we have on the tocr page which concludes with “If the player had first proceeded correctly and then moved the ball in play with his clubhead and played the ball, the penalty would be assessed under Rule 18 and would be a total of two strokes.” What if he had not proceeded correctly (by not marking) is it still a maximum of two penalty strokes? Golf math 2+1=2?
Sorry to bother you again but this question is a “continuation” of an earlier question I had about potsing scores in “Winter” conditions.
Rule 7.1 seems quite clear that unless someone (committee or otherwise), decides the course is so bad that scores should NOT be posted, we should post our scores for handicap purposes. Now, I am being told that there are two ways to play “Winter” rules, i.e. “Closely Mown Areas” and “Thru The Green”.
Only in the “Closely Mown Situation” should we post scores. If “Thru The Green” no.
Can this be right???
April 4th, 2012 at 6:22 pmDan,
Yes, it would be a maximum of two strokes applied. See the penalty statement under the Local Rule for Preferred Lies.
*If a player incurs the general penalty for a breach of this Local Rule, no additional penalty under this Local Rule is appplied.”
April 5th, 2012 at 9:46 amPhil,
April 5th, 2012 at 4:47 pmThe Local Rule for Preffered Lies as stated in the Appendix I of the Rules of Golf states that it is for a ball that lies in an a closely mown area through the green. If you are applying this Local Rule in another manner, you are not playing under the Rules of Golf and the scores may not be posted.
Your rule that a ball enters a water hazzard but plugs and stops outside the hazzard is deemed to be in the hazzard.An earlier ruling that a ball enters a burrowing animal hole on the course and comes to rest out of bounds is OB. Why one rule that says where it enters and another where it stops
April 6th, 2012 at 8:58 amEd,
April 6th, 2012 at 10:35 amIn Decision 13/4 the ball is stuck in the ground and where it entered that ground is where it is deemed to lie. In Decision 25-1b/24 the ball rolled to a location after entering an abnormal ground condition so the ball will be treated as it lies. According to the USGA, there is a difference between embedded and rolled in these situations.
Striking the Ball Twice 14-4:
April 7th, 2012 at 10:24 amYour 2nd shot goes into a greenside bunker. On your 3rd shot coming out of the bunker your club hits the ball a 2nd time. You land on the green and one putt. Do you count your 3rd shot plus a penalty, or do you count your 3rd shot, an additional shot for striking the ball twice and also add a penalty? final score 5 or 6?
my ball landed in a bunker that has water in it.However my ball was not in the water but in the mud where the water has receded.Am I entitled to a drop?
April 7th, 2012 at 4:48 pmDonna,
April 8th, 2012 at 8:40 amFinal score 5. The stroke counts but you do not count the additional times the ball strikes the club during the stroke. A penalty of one stroke is added and the ball is played as it lies.
Vince,
April 8th, 2012 at 8:48 amYou are entitled to relief from the casual water for your stance lie of ball or area of intended swing. However, you are not entitled to relief from muddy areas. Decision 25/1 states that a player is not entitled to soft mushy earth unless there is water visible before or after you have taken your stance.
Local Match Play Rules:
Our local club hosts a 16 team double elimination match play tournament every year and we currently employ a full handicap rule for all teams. My question is whether NCGA would prefer our club to enforce a max handicap of 18.4 for team members exceeding that index?
What’s the NCGA’s stance?
Thanks
April 10th, 2012 at 3:09 pmMichael,
The NCGA employs the 18.4 max index for some of its net events, not all. It is up to each individual Committee to establish the handicap limits for their events.
I think it is important to point out in match play events The higher-handicapped player receives the full difference in Course Handicap between the two players; the lower-handicapped player plays from scratch. Example: A player with a Course Handicap of 17 receives four strokes from a player with a Course Handicap of 13. The player receives them on the first four allocated handicap-stroke holes.
April 10th, 2012 at 4:50 pmRyan,
April 10th, 2012 at 8:01 pmI apologize for not mentioning that we also use that format as well (I was short on time). We’re just exploring options due to some differences in handicapping philosophies for this particular tournament.
We’re currently thinking of employing an 80% reduction rule and then stroking off the low handicapped player during a match.
Is this decision acceptable to NCGA standards?
Are there other any other options that the NCGA would recommend?
Any ideas would be appreciated!
Michael, thank you for your comment. You can choose to conduct your tournaments in any manner that you like. The USGA Handicap System recommendation for four-ball match play, however, is that you reduce the Course Handicap of all four golfers by the Course Handicap of the low of the group, who then plays at scratch. There is no recommendation for a 90% or 80% allowance in match play for this format. Thanks again, Jim Cowan, Director of Course Rating and Handicapping
April 11th, 2012 at 8:41 amMatch Play Question:
Let’s say I chip in the hole for an 8. My opponent is on the green for a 50 foot putt for birdie 3 and i concede the hole. My question is does he have to take a 3 or can he putt out and take whatever score till he makes the putt?
April 15th, 2012 at 7:54 pmKen,
Your opponent would score a 3 on the hole for the status of the match. However, for posting purposes, he should post the score he most likely would have made.
SECTION 4-1 of the USGA Handicap Manual:
4-1. Unfinished Holes and Conceded Strokes
April 16th, 2012 at 8:03 amA player who starts, but does not complete a hole or is conceded a stroke must record for handicap purposes the most likely score. The most likely score may not exceed the player’s Equitable Stroke Control limit, defined in Section 4-3. This most likely score should be preceded by an “X.” (See Decision 4-1/1.)
There is no limit to the number of unfinished holes a player may have in a round, provided that failure to finish is not for the purpose of handicap manipulation.
Example 1: A and B are partners in a four-ball stroke play competition. On a hole on which neither player receives a handicap stroke, A lies two, 18 feet from the hole. B lies two, 25 feet from the hole. B holes a putt for a 3. A picks up on the hole, because A cannot better B’s score. A records X-4 on the scorecard because 4 is A’s most likely score.
Example 2: A and B are playing a match. On a hole on which neither player receives a handicap stroke, A has holed out in 4; B has a 30-foot putt for a 5. B has lost the hole, and picks up. B records X-6 on the scorecard because 6 is B’s most likely score.
Example 3: A and B are playing a match. On a hole on which neither player receives a handicap stroke, A is one foot from the hole, lying 4. B is 10 feet from the hole, lying 3. B putts and misses. They both concede a half. Both players record X-5 because that is their most likely score.
A ball is lying near a water hazard. The hazard is a circular pond to the left side of the green. There are yellow stakes defining the hazard. At some point in the past a yellow line was also painted around the hazard. The yellow line is not always present. During major tournaments the line is added but it it is not constantly kept up or even present. Due to time and mowing of the area the line has faded and is not present or visible along much of the circumference of the hazard. The ball in question is lying outside of the marker stakes but inside of the faded partial yellow line. Is the ball considered in or out of the hazard.
April 16th, 2012 at 9:37 amAndy,
April 16th, 2012 at 10:21 amSee the definition of a water hazard. The line defines the margin of the water hazard, even if it is faded. The ball would be considered inside the water hazard.
During a monthly club tournament, Player A said her score on that hole was 6. However, Player B and C did not agree and said her score was 8. But she still insisted the score of 6. So after the round was over, Player A,B and C sat down with tournament chair to solve this issue. Tournament chair said that if Player A insisted her score was
April 16th, 2012 at 7:54 pm6, then it did not matter even if one hundred people said her score was 8. It did not make any sense and Player B refused to attest Player A’s score card. I believe that Player B and C knew exactly where her shots were on that hole. But it did not make any difference.
Committee’s position was her word is good. Then, who needs a marker?
Player B or C has an obligation to the fields to keep scores accurate.
What should have been done in this situation? Who was right?
thank you.
Ken,
There are clearly circumstances involved with this ruling that you and I are not aware of. Resolution of fact is a very difficult ruling. The Committee is required to weigh all available evidence and give a ruling to the best of their ability. The following decision may be helpful for guidance to the Committee in the future.
34-3/9: Resolution of Questions of Fact; Referee and Committee Responsibility
Resolving questions of fact is among the most difficult actions required of a referee, or the Committee as a whole. For example, these situations include a broad array of incidents such as determining whether a player caused a ball to move (Decisions 18/10, 18-2a/30 and 18-2a/30.5), whether a player played from outside the teeing ground (Decision 34-3/4), whether a stroke was made (Decision 14/1.5), the hole at which a wrong ball was played (Decision 15-1/3) and the state of a match (Decision 34-3/5).
April 17th, 2012 at 7:28 amIn all situations involving questions of fact, resolution of the doubt must be made in light of all the relevant circumstances and evaluation of the weight of the evidence, including the balance of probabilities where applicable (Decision 15-1/3). When the Committee is unable to determine the facts to its satisfaction, it must resolve the matter in the fairest way (Decision 34-3/5).
Testimony of the players involved is important and must be given due consideration. In some situations where the facts are not decisive, the doubt should be resolved in favor of the player (Decisions 15-1/2 and 19-1/4.1); in others, the doubt should be resolved against the player (Decision 13-4/35.5 and 21/3). There is no hard-and-fast rule for evaluating the testimony of the players or for assigning the weight to be given to such testimony and each situation must be treated on its own merits. The proper action depends on the circumstances in each case and must be left to the judgment of the referee, or the Committee as a whole.
Testimony of those who are not a part of the competition, including spectators, must be accepted and evaluated (Decision 27/12). It is also appropriate to use television footage and the like to assist in resolving doubt.
It is important that any questions of fact be resolved in a timely manner such that the competition may proceed in an orderly way. Thus, the referee may be limited to evaluating the evidence available to him in a timely manner. Any such ruling is always subject to further review by the referee, or Committee as a whole as additional evidence becomes available.
If a judgment is made by a referee, the player is entitled to proceed on the basis of that ruling whether it is an interpretation of the Rules of Golf (Decision 34-3/1.5) or a resolution of a question of fact (Decision 34-3/7). In situations arising in both circumstances, if the ruling is found to be incorrect, the Committee may have the authority to make a correction (Decisions 34-3/1 and 34-3/7). However, in all circumstances, including both match play and stroke play, the referee or Committee is limited in its ability to make corrections by the guidance contained in Decisions 34-2/5, 34-2/6, 34-2/7, 34-3/3 and 34-3/3.3. (Revised)
On a par four with a lake bordering the hole, a player’s approach shot rolled into the water hazard and appeared to go into the lake. When he got to the area he found his ball inside the hazard but still somewhat playable. He attempted to advance the ball from the hazard but missed it entirely. He then saw that it was not his ball which must have rolled into the lake after all. He took a drop, chipped it onto the green, and two putted. Does he incur a penalty for attempting to strike the wrong ball even if he misses it? What is his score, 8? Five strokes, plus a penalty stroke for the water hazard and a two stroke penalty for attempting to hit the wrong ball?
April 18th, 2012 at 8:55 amDave,
April 18th, 2012 at 9:36 amNo, 7 is his score for the hole. The definition of a stroke is the forward movement of the club with the intent to strike the ball. It doesn’t matter if he makes contact or not. When he swung and missed the wrong ball he incurred a penalty of 2 strokes under Rule 15-3, but the stroke does not count in the score. 4 actual strokes and 3 penalty strokes.
Your 2nd shot goes in the bunker. On your third stroke coming out of the bunker, after your club has struck the ball, your ball hits your club again. You then one putt. What is your score? do you count your initial stroke out of the bunker and add one penalty, or do you count your initial stroke, then add another stoke for hitting the ball twice and then add a penalty. Is your score 4 or 5?
April 20th, 2012 at 7:56 pmYour 2nd shot goes in the bunker. On your third stroke coming out of the bunker, after your club has struck the ball, your ball hits your club again. You then one putt. What is your score? do you count your initial stroke out of the bunker and add one penalty, or do you count your initial stroke, then add another stoke for hitting the ball twice and then add a penalty. Is your score 6 or 5?
April 20th, 2012 at 8:02 pmDonna,
April 21st, 2012 at 4:50 pmThe score would be 5. The stroke counts plus one penalty stroke. See Rule 14-4.
On the second day of a two-day NCGA tournament, I pulled my drive left. Everybody agreed that it was possibly out of bounds, but we could not say for sure. I hit a provisional ball safely, and we went to look for my first ball.
Out of bounds on the hole is marked by a chain-link fence. We found my first ball stuck in the fence, about eight to twelve inches above the ground. Everyone agreed that the ball was “half in, half out.” I contended that the ball was not out of bounds because the entire ball has to be “out” for it to be out of bounds. One of my playing partners contended that if any of the ball was “out,” then it was considered out of bounds and no longer playable.
I played both balls with the understanding that after the round, we would consult the pro and record the score with the ball that he ruled was correctly played. (My playing partner contended that I had to “declare” which ball I was playing and could not play them both, even though the rules sheet we were given before the start of the tournament clearly stated that in the event of a rules question, I should play both balls and seek a ruling at the end of the round.)
The pro ruled that my first ball (the one stuck in the fence) was out of bounds, and we recorded my score on the provisional ball. I still think this was the wrong ruling and that I had to play the first ball and abandon the provisional ball. (Ironically, I made a better score on the provisional ball, and I found myself arguing for a higher score.)
Was my first ball still in bounds, or was it out of bounds? And if the pro incorrectly ruled that it was out of bounds, did I sign an incorrect scorecard? If I did sign an incorrect scorecard, am I now DQ’d? (I will contact the pro about your response, either way.)
Thanks.
– Humphreys McGee
April 22nd, 2012 at 7:09 pmHumphreys,
April 23rd, 2012 at 8:46 amAccording to the definition of Out of Bounds in the Rules of Golf “a ball is out of bounds when all of it lies out of bounds”. I pretty sure the reason your ball was determined to be out of bounds is because the fence posts that hold up the fence are on the course side of the fence. These posts, at ground level, are what defines the boundary. See the definition of Out of Bounds.
Rule 3-3 requires you to announce prior to taking further action that you will complete the hole with two balls and announce which ball you wish to score with.
Whether or not the ruling was incorrect, you cannot be penalized for signing for an incorrect score for the hole in question. The Committee is responsible for determining your score on that hole.
After a hole is done and a flag is put back in. May a player drop his ball and putt, as long as he isn’t holding up play. Stroke play event.
April 30th, 2012 at 6:36 amMario,
April 30th, 2012 at 8:01 amYes, Rule 7-2 permits practice putting on the hole just completed in both stroke play and match play. However, the Committee may choose to adopt, as a condition of the competition, a local rule prohibiting practice on or near the putting green of the last hole played.
I was disqualified during today’s tournament for the following reason…(and my coach and I were not sure if it was correctly ruled).
I tee off and hit my ball in the right trees, along with a playing playing partner. We decide to look for his ball first, once we find his, I said I was going to go back and hit a provisional in case I find my original. SO I get a ride back to the tee box, hit my provisional and get dropped off at it. I hit the provisional then find my original ball which was past the provisional. I then finish out my first ball and make par and pick up the provisional. (was I allowed to play my first ball even though i went back to the tee, this was all within the league five minutes).
April 30th, 2012 at 9:18 pmJason,
May 1st, 2012 at 8:41 amA provisional ball is played prior to going forward. When you went back to the tee, you were playing under stroke and distance (Rule 27-1). When you played again from the tee, that ball became the ball in play and your original ball was lost (Definition of Lost Ball). When you played your original ball you played a wrong ball (Rule 15-3) and were required to fix the error. Since you did not fix it prior to starting the next hole, you were disqualified.
On the far side of a fairway bunker lies a lateral hazard. My tee shot crosses over the bunker and into the hazard. My option for going back keeping the cross point and the pin is not viable. Two club lengths from the point where my ball crossed the hazard will put me in the bunker. May I drop my ball in the bunker?
May 2nd, 2012 at 3:04 pmRyan Gregg wrote above “Rule 3-3 requires you to announce prior to taking further action that you will complete the hole with two balls and announce which ball you wish to score with”.
Ryan, please confirm that failure to declare results in the original ball being scored.
3-3b(ii) If the competitor fails to announce in advance his decision to complete the hole with two balls, or which ball he wishes to count, the score with the original ball counts, provided it has been played in accordance with the Rules. If the original ball is not one of the balls being played, the first ball put into play counts, provided it has been played in accordance with the Rules.
In the above posting I assume the options were: ball 1 was inbounds but unplayable (stuck in the fence), Ball 2 was the provisional in case the original ball was OB. Therefore the competitor must declare which ball he wants to score with prior to playing both balls out. Failure to declare would result in the unplayable ball counting by default.
Correct?
May 2nd, 2012 at 3:23 pmBob,
May 3rd, 2012 at 8:04 amYes, you may drop your ball in the bunker when taking relief from a lateral water hazard. Rule 26-1 does not prohibit such action.
Bob,
The original ball will count when the player has failed to declare which ball he wishes to score with and it has been played in accordance with the Rules.
You are corect. The ball unplayable would be the ball to count if the player did not declare which ball he wished to score with.
May 3rd, 2012 at 8:09 amOur club is conducting a match play tournament that will take a couple of months to conclude. 32 players seeded in two brackets. 1vrs. 32, 2 vrs. 31 and so forth. 2 had to give 31 22 pops and the match was played with 31 winning 3 and 2. I played 31 in the second round and defeated him 6 and 4. After our match, 31 said he played 2 from the gold tees while 2 played from the green tees. I told him that everyone must play from the same tees and he must have been mistaken. This is a Senior tournament and he is 80 years old and forgetful and easily confused. I didn’t think any more of it until today when 31 told me he went to the head pro and told him about the tee situation. I haven’t heard a decision yet but I don’t see how they can go back after the results have been posted and the next round played and change the outcome of the first round match. Am I correct? Thanks for your response. Ken baxter
May 3rd, 2012 at 2:12 pmKen,
May 3rd, 2012 at 2:45 pmThe match would stand as played. Rule 2-5 does not permit a player to make a later claim after the result of the match has been officially announced unless (i) the claim is based on facts which were previously unknown to the player making the claim at the time the result was officially announced, (ii) the player making the claim had been given wrong information by an opponent and (iii) the opponent knew he was giving wrong information.
It is clear that the facts were known to player 2.
I find my ball in the fairway sitting on top of a wad of bubble gum or a cigar butt. What are my options? What if the bubble gum is adhering to the ball?
May 3rd, 2012 at 9:00 pmCarolyn,
May 4th, 2012 at 8:00 amThe bubble gum and cigar butt are both movable obstructions and Rule 24-1a applies. The player can remove the gum or cigar and if the ball moves, replace the ball without penalty. If the ball is on the obstruction Rule 24-1b applies and the ball may be lifted and the obstruction removed. The ball must through the green or in a hazard be dropped, or on the putting green be placed, as near as possible to the spot directly under the place where the ball lay in or on the obstruction, but not nearer the hole.
Friday at the Wells Fargo Championship.
May 5th, 2012 at 7:17 pmTiger’s ball cannot be found
but it’s not ruled, “a lost ball”, no, it’s a “free drop”.
help us out, was that a good call? if so, why?
The PGA Tournament Officials felt that there was enough virtual certainty that the ball must have been taken by a spectator. They allowed Tiger to drop a ball at an estimated spot that the ball was when someone had taken it under Rule 18-1. See Decision 18-1/5. It was my understanding, they felt that they would have found the ball in the area where his ball had come to rest if someone had not taken it. Since the ball could not be retrieved he was permitted to substitute, without penalty. This is probably not much different than when a player hits his ball to an adjacent fairway and another player in another group picks it up because they think it is a stray ball. When the player gets to the spot where is ball is supposed to be, he sees the other group out of reach, but he knows that someone must have either picked it up or played it. Sure, we would likely interview the players in the group to verify the ruling, but in Tiger’s case, there were too many spectators to interview and the culprit was probably not going to confess. This is definitely an obscure ruling and rulings involving Tiger’s golf ball usually are (ie., Decision 23-1/3).
May 6th, 2012 at 7:44 pmHi Ryan,
May 13th, 2012 at 4:51 pmI know it’s ok to probe with a tee to check for roots or the edge of a cart path or the size/extent of a sprinkler head, etc. as long as the lie is not improved. How about when a local rule is in effect that allows for removal of stones in a bunker: Is it also ok to probe in a bunker for stones as long as the lie is not improved? If a player can probe and finds a stone below the surface, does the lie then have to be recreated? Are there limitations to how much searching for rocks is allowed? Or is the player limited to just what he can see as he gets ready to play the ball? In summary, what can the player do or not do when rocks/stones are in bunker and removal is allowed?
Dan,
May 14th, 2012 at 1:04 pmYes, the player would be permitted to probe with a tee to determine if there is a stone around his ball. If the lie is altered, it must be re-created without penalty. This particular Local Rule is adopted for safety concerns for the player and the Committee should give the player some latitude for determining if there are stones in the area.
My friend played his ball from the fairway and it crossed a water hazard (lateral) between two red stakes. The ball, we think, crossed the stream and adjacent hedge and into an overgrown field (not out of bounds) and probably not into the actual stream. The red stakes are only on the fairway side of the hazard. Is the ball in the hazard or lost?
May 18th, 2012 at 2:44 pmMatt,
May 21st, 2012 at 9:00 amUnless the Committee has stated that the opposite side of the hazard goes to infinity, by Local Rule, the natural limits of the hazard should be used to determine the margins of the hazard. According to your description, the ball would be lost in an area through the green and the player would have to proceed under Rule 27-1 (Stroke and Distance).
My second shot on a par 4 hooked towards a water hazard. I saw it hit the rocks around the hazarr but did not see it hit the water. After looking all around for five minutes a rules official came over and told me time was up and declared it a lost ball and I had to go back to my previous spot to hit…did he make the correct ruling?
May 25th, 2012 at 4:56 pmBack in the Stump Archives is a question that asked about an embedded ball that entered the ground just outside a water hazard line and ended up partially under the line. The answer was that the ball was considered outside the hazard because Decision 13/4 tells us that an embedded ball is considered to be lying on the part of the course where it entered the ground. So, at our tourney last week, the question was raised about an embedded ball that entered just outside an ob line and ended up totally under the line? An unlikely scenario, but 25-1b/25 would support that in this embedded ball situation the ball would be ob: “Whether or not a ball is out of bounds depends on where it lies on the course in relation to the boundary of the course. Dec. 13/4 would tell us it is in bounds. Does 25-1b/23 over rule 13/4?
May 25th, 2012 at 8:06 pmIs there a set allowed time for playing 18 holes of golf?………our club is continually experiencing slow play. We allocate a certain time but are unsure whether this is actually for etiquette or if it is actually procedure that must be followed.
May 25th, 2012 at 10:34 pmCameron,
According to your description, it seems that you did not have virtual certainty or knowledge that your ball was lost within the water hazard. Without knowledge or virtual certainty, you may not exercise your options of Rule 26-1 (water hazard relief) and you must treat you ball as lost outside the water hazard and proceed under Rule 27-1 (stroke and distance). The ruling was correct.
26-1/1 Meaning of “Known or Virtually Certain”
May 26th, 2012 at 8:21 amWhen a ball has been struck towards a water hazard and cannot be found, a player may not assume that his ball is in the water hazard simply because there is a possibility that the ball may be in the water hazard. In order to proceed under Rule 26-1, it must be “known or virtually certain” that the ball is in the water hazard. In the absence of “knowledge or virtual certainty” that it lies in a water hazard, a ball that cannot be found must be considered lost somewhere other than in a water hazard and the player must proceed under Rule 27-1.
When a player’s ball cannot be found, “knowledge” may be gained that his ball is in a water hazard in a number of ways. The player or his caddie or other members of his match or group may actually observe the ball disappear into the water hazard. Evidence provided by other reliable witnesses may also establish that the ball is in the water hazard. Such evidence could come from a referee, an observer, spectators or other outside agencies. It is important that all readily accessible information be considered because, for example, the mere fact that a ball has splashed in a water hazard would not always provide “knowledge” that the ball is in the water hazard, as there are instances when a ball may skip out of, and come to rest outside, the hazard.
In the absence of “knowledge” that the ball is in the water hazard, Rule 26-1 requires there to be “virtual certainty” that the player’s ball is in the water hazard in order to proceed under this Rule. Unlike “knowledge,” “virtual certainty” implies some small degree of doubt about the actual location of a ball that has not been found. However, “virtual certainty” also means that, although the ball has not been found, when all readily available information is considered, the conclusion that there is nowhere that the ball could be except in the water hazard would be justified.
In determining whether “virtual certainty” exists, some of the relevant factors in the area of the water hazard to be considered include topography, turf conditions, grass heights, visibility, weather conditions and the proximity of trees, bushes and abnormal ground conditions.
The same principles would apply for a ball that may have been moved by an outside agency (Rule 18-1) or a ball that has not been found and may be in an obstruction (Rule 24-3) or an abnormal ground condition (Rule 25-1c). (Revised)
Dan,
May 26th, 2012 at 8:24 amIn Decision 13/4 the ball is embedded. In Decision 25-1/25, the ball has entered a burrowing animal hole. If the ball were embedded we treat it where it entered the ground. When it enters a burrowing animal hole or obstruction, we treat the ball where it came to rest. Embedded is different.
Carol,
May 26th, 2012 at 8:34 amRule 6-7 requires players to play without undue delay. The Committee may establish times in which to complete a hole, stroke or round and the players must play within these times or incur a penalty. The Committee should set a pace with consideration to such factors as specific course conditions, weather conditions, form of play, walkers vs. riders and the number of players in each group. The impact of course layout must also be considered (topography of the course, carts 90° vs. cart path only, distance from green to next tee, etc). Par 5’s which are reachable in two shots by some of the field will probably result in backups at the tee. Backups will also frequently occur on difficult Par 3’s. The pace should be set to an achievable time; the goal of the Pace of Play Policy is to ensure that a reasonable pace of play is maintained by the whole field. Useful information for setting the Pace often be obtained by the Club Professional and/or good players belonging to the club. Normally courses are set at the standard pace of 4 hours and 30 minutes (2:15 to play each nine). There are a number of courses that may need more time to play based on the above factors.
Ryan,
Thanks for your opinion. Several spectators said they saw it hit the rocks and go into the water and some people saw it bounce out. What was very frustrating was that the grass all around the hazard was very short. Lots of people looked for this ball and there just wasn’t any way that it could be out of the hazard. Thanks again.
May 26th, 2012 at 9:15 amI have been playing golf for over 40 years. I think I know the rules pretty well. Yet, as I was reading through rule 20 c regarding re-dropping, the rules create confusion.
Lets say my ball is on a cart path and I am right handed and, in this case, my nearest point of relief is on the right side of the cart path. I take my stance with my intended club and mark where the ball would be and place a tee there (spot 1). I then get my driver for measurement of the area of my one club relief area and place a tee there (spot 2). I choose to drop very close to spot 2.
When I drop, my ball does not go nearer to the hole but rolls outside of spot 2. Rule 20c vi says I must re-drop if it comes to rest more than 2 club lengths from where it hit the ground on my drop. In my case, it was just a few inches outside of my one club relief. Strictly under the rules, it appears I must play this ball even though I have now received more than 1 club length of relief.
Rule 20 c vii b mentions redropping if I have exceeded maximum available relief (the one club length) BUT it has a caveat about coming to rest nearer the hole. I don’t know why it reads this way because ANYTIME your ball is nearer the hole, you must re-drop.
Bottom line: my interpretation is that the ball must stay within that 1 club length or it must be re-dropped. If it won’t stay within that, it must then be placed. What is the correct interpretation?
May 29th, 2012 at 10:10 amScott,
Decision 20-2c/1:Dropped Ball Rolling Out of Prescribed Dropping Area
Q. A player taking relief under the Rules sometimes appears to obtain more relief than he is entitled to because the relevant Rule allows him some latitude within which to drop and the dropped ball then rolls some distance from the place where it was dropped. When a Rule prescribes an area within which a ball must be dropped, e.g., within one or two club-lengths of a particular point, should it be re-dropped if it rolls outside the area so prescribed?
A. No, not necessarily. Provided the ball has been correctly dropped (Rule 20-2a) and does not roll into any of the positions listed in Rule 20-2c, it is in play and must not be redropped. In particular, under Rule 20-2c(vi), the ball may roll up to two club-lengths from the point where it first struck a part of the course when dropped, and this may result in its coming to rest an appreciable distance farther from the condition from which relief is being taken. For example:
(a) a ball dropped within two club-lengths of the margin of a lateral water hazard may come to rest almost four club-lengths from the hazard margin without the player being required to re-drop it under Rule 20-2c; and
(b) a ball dropped away from an immovable obstruction within one club-length of the nearest point of relief may come to rest almost three club-lengths from the nearest point of relief without the player being required to re-drop it under Rule 20-2c.
Under Rule 20-2c(vii) b. it is possible for the ball when dropped to come to rest nearer the hole than the nearest point of relief and not be closer to the hole than where the ball originally lay. In that case, the ball must be re-dropped.
Maximum available relief has nothing to do with club-lengths. Maximum Available Relief is an option for relief when complete relief is not available and the player is restricted to an area of the course (ie, bunker and putting green). For an example, see decision 25-1b/5.
May 29th, 2012 at 10:56 amPlease explain, if you can, how Zach Johnson’s finish is legit, when it seems he never actually holed out from where his ball was originally marked on #18 at Colonial on Sunday? Thanks
May 30th, 2012 at 7:58 amJim,
May 30th, 2012 at 8:06 amZach Johnson’s third stroke from a green-side bunker came to rest on the putting green approximately five feet from the hole. Zach marked his ball and then was asked by his fellow-competitor, Jason Dufner, to move his ball marker as it was on his (Jason’s) line of putt. Zach followed the procedure as prescribe in the Note to Rule 20-1 and placed the ball marker to the side one clubhead-length to the left. After Jason putted, Zach placed his ball behind his marker and putted the ball into the hole. Unfortunately, he did not put the ball marker back to its original location which resulted in him incurring a two stroke penalty under Rule 20-1. Since this was not a serious breach of playing from a wrong place, he was not required to correct the error and the ball was holed. Fortunately, he had a three stroke lead and he was informed of the penalty prior to returning his score card. “There is number of adjectives that I am calling myself right now, and lucky would be the biggest one I can think of.” — Johnson describing the 18th hole goof.
Cameron,
May 30th, 2012 at 8:46 amThe hardest part of making an accurate ruling is gathering all of the correct information. In your second response, your facts changed enough to get a different answer. In the first post you failed to mention that spectators saw the ball go into the hazard and that there was short grass surrounding the hazard and if the ball was not in the hazard you would have found it. These all make a very strong case for virtual certainty that the ball was in the hazard which is supported by Decision 26-1/1.
Is there any rules regarding when a ball hits a “cart this way” sign in the fairway?
May 30th, 2012 at 12:51 pmGeorge,
May 30th, 2012 at 1:28 pmRule 19-1 discribes what you do when you ball is deflected by an outside agency.
19-1. By Outside Agency
If a player’s ball in motion is accidentally deflected or stopped by any outside agency, it is a rub of the green, there is no penalty and the ball must be played as it lies
Hello and good evening,
Today during a match my ball came to rest up against a rake on the bank of a sand trap. To hit the ball I needed to move the rake and in doing so the ball rolled into the trap. What is your ruling?
Thank you.
May 30th, 2012 at 11:24 pmMichael,
May 31st, 2012 at 8:33 amThe rake is, by definition, a movable obstruction. Rule 24-1 applies and the player is required to replace the ball, without penalty.
Ryan,
I was virtually certain that the ball was in the water but the rules official took the decision out of my, and my playing partners hands. Without consulting me or my playing partners he declared the ball lost and left me with any choice but to go back.
May 31st, 2012 at 11:15 amCameron,
May 31st, 2012 at 1:03 pmThe only thing I could suggest is that, in the future, you play two balls under Rule 3-3 and then have the Rules Committee review the circumstances and make a ruling.
A player’s ball is accidentally stepped on and pushed into the turf. Depending on whose foot was involved and what form of play there may or may not be a penalty; however, the lie has been altered so how is the ball properly put into play? Rule 20-3b gives specific directions, but my question deals with what do do about the “hole” made by the stepped on ball. Several times decisions tell us the player is entitled to the lie he had when his ball came to rest so can it repaired and the ball placed back on the same spot? Or is the situation like an embedded ball and the “hole” can’t be repaired? If the player caused the altered lie is it a different ruling than if an outside agency or opponent altered the lie? What about if the incident occurred on the green? Could the “hole” be fixed especially if it were on the line of putt?
June 6th, 2012 at 8:08 amEd,
June 6th, 2012 at 9:11 amRule 20-3b applies and we are going to place the ball within a club-length in the nearest most similar lie that the ball had before it was moved. The indentation may not be fixed if it is in a position that would violate Rule 13-2. The only time we are going to re-create the lie is if the ball was in a bunker. If this were to occur on the putting green will still place within a club-length in a spot that avoids interference from the indentation. If the ball was stepped on purposely by an opponent or fellow-competitor, I believe Decision 1-2/1 would apply and the player may fix the damage. Otherwise, the damage would not be repaired if it were to assist the player in the subsequent play of the hole.
A tee shot lands in a tree and does not come down. The ball is indentified as the players ball who hit the tee shot from by looking up and can be reached with a club. A player could possibly hit the ball out of the tree but is standing on a cart path.Does the player get free relief from the cart path and can he drop a ball under this ruling?
June 7th, 2012 at 3:38 pmButch,
June 7th, 2012 at 3:42 pmIf it reasonable for the player to play a stroke at the ball that is in the tree, the player would be entitled to relief from the cart path as prescribed in Rule 24-2. See the Exception to Rule 24-2 for further clarification.
We have a par 5 hole where the cart path runs down the left side of the fairway. Three feet from the edge of the cart path is a chain link fence (separating the course from a cow pasture). There is a patch of grass which extends 100 yards along side this path between the path and the fence. When the ball 1)lands in this grass or 2)up against the fense…how should it be played? Whether the golfer is right handed and trys to hit the ball away from the hole to set up for a better shot, or the golfer is left handed and tries to advance the ball towards the hole, the golfer is standing on the cart part. Can he seek relief without a penalty?
June 8th, 2012 at 6:51 amJohn,
June 8th, 2012 at 7:50 amYes, the player is entitled to relief for his stance on the cart path.For further clarification:
Decision 24-2b/6 Relief from Immovable Obstruction Incidentally Results in Relief from Boundary Fence
Q. A player’s ball is in such a position that a boundary fence and an immovable obstruction near the fence both interfere with the area of the player’s intended swing. It is reasonable for him to play the stroke despite the interference from the boundary fence. If the player takes relief from the obstruction under Rule 24-2b, he will incidentally get relief from the fence. Is the player entitled to invoke Rule 24-2b in such circumstances?
A. Yes.
I have a question regarding the provisional ball rule. During a tournament a playing partner pulled his tee shot and it went into some very high berry bushes. Many people lose golf balls in that area. He announced he was hitting a provisional ball. He sliced his shot high into the trees to the right and it came straight down, still 150 yards short of where his first ball entered the bushes. He hit the provisional ball again and topped it maybe 100 yds. He hit his provisional a third time before we even got up to look for his original ball. He did find his original ball a few feet into the bushes. He then proceeded to take a drop with penaly for un-playable and played the original ball and picked up the provisional. Was this correct? A few people thought once he hit a second shot with the provisonal, that was the official ball in pay. What is the rule?
June 11th, 2012 at 12:56 pmBob,
June 11th, 2012 at 1:29 pmThe original ball remains the ball in play until a player has played a stroke at a provisional ball from a point equal or closer to the hole than where the original ball is likely to be. See definition of Lost Ball. According to your description, the player proceeded correctly, as the original ball was still the ball in play.
I played behind an NCGA qualifyer at Teal Bend Golf Course. 5hrs + and there were quite a few volunteer NCGA staff running all over the Course. Is this the normal pace of play for an NCGA sponsored event?
June 11th, 2012 at 6:29 pmTom,
June 12th, 2012 at 8:55 amNo, it is not typical for an NCGA event to take more than 5 hours. Teal Bend had a very large field of almost 80 players yesterday which may have caused the delay. When you have that many players that are required to complete the play of the hole under the Rules of Golf, it only takes one bad hole to delay the entire group. The NCGA’s maximum allowable pace of play for the day was 4:48 minutes. We expect players to play faster than that time. I haven’t been in contact with the Committee in charge of the event, but I am sure penalties were assessed for violation of the NCGA’s Pace of Play Policy.
Gregg, thank you I did notice the pin placements on some tough locations, on or near a crown on some holes. thanks for the return
June 12th, 2012 at 10:39 amnote tom
My buddies and I were playing a downhill, dogleg right hole which has a cart path running along the left side. My buddy , a left hander, hit a ball left that landed about 2 feet left of the path . Out of bounds was about 5 feet left of the path. So he lies in rough grass , in bounds but he has a stance on the cart path. He is , we all believe , entitled to relief . One club length , no closer to the hole. That leaves him no where to go except one club length back ,still with a stance on the cart path. He claims he can drop on the right side of the path, I disagree because that is more than one club length away. He says he does not have to play the ball standing on the path. I claim that if he wishes to move to the right side of the path it will cost him a stroke. What do you think?
June 13th, 2012 at 9:13 pmRalph,
June 14th, 2012 at 8:47 amIf it reasonable for him to play a stroke at the ball, he is entitled to relief from the cart path as prescribed in Rule 24-2. If he takes relief he must take complete relief (stance, lie of ball and area of intended swing). The nearest point of relief may not be out of bounds. According to your description, he is going to have to drop the ball on the right side of the cart path without penalty. For additional clarification see decision 24-2b/6 and the definition of nearest point of relief.
What is ruling for the following scenerio. Ball is just off green and golfer wants to putt but water flooded sprinkler head is in line of putt. Can golfer take relief due to casual water?
June 15th, 2012 at 8:25 amRick,
June 15th, 2012 at 8:46 amA player is not entitled to intervention relief on the line of play for casual water unless the ball is on the putting green. See Rule 25-1.
We are a “links” course at Bodega Bay. Hole 16 is a par 4 and 286 yards. About 160 yards is “carry” over a marsh from the Blue tee box, and 145 yards from the White tee box. There is a drop area in front of both tee boxes which has about 125 yards of carry. The forward tee box is across the marsh and is played as a par 3. The current course rule on the back of our score cards reads; “Balls in the marsh from the blue or white tees on hole #16…1) Drop in front of the tee, 1 stroke penalty, or 2) Drop at the gold (forward) tee across the marsh, 3 stroke penalty.”
For the first option, the golfer will be laying 3 if the second ball clears the marsh. In the second option, the golfer will be laying 5 after he hits the second ball (1 in the marsh + 3 penalty + 1 for hit of second ball). The 3 stroke penalty seems excessive. What is your recommendation for a “local rule” keeping in mind there should be some penalty for going to the forward tee, and pace-of-play.
June 15th, 2012 at 9:46 amJohn,
June 18th, 2012 at 8:49 amA drop zone is used as an additional option for taking relief from the water hazard (See Appendix I,8.). The drop zone should be placed in a position where the player still has to negotiate the water hazard with a stroke. The drop zone that is on the putting green side of the water hazard is not considered a legal option under the Rules of Golf. If players are unable to clear the water hazard, the Committee should use the teeing ground on the putting green side of the water hazard for the tee shot.
At our recent club championship, the club pro made an incorrect ruling about the penalty for a player hitting the equipment of his opponent. The ruling took place early in the match on the third hole. When the pro learned about his error (two holes later) was there a way to correct the ruling or was it too late once the players teed off on the fourth hole?
June 23rd, 2012 at 4:15 pmEd,
June 26th, 2012 at 8:33 amIf after a referee has given a ruling, either player makes a stroke on the hole or, in circumstances where no more strokes are made on the hole, either player makes a stroke from the next teeing ground, the referee may not reverse the ruling. See Decision 34-2/6 and 7 for additional clarification.
A player I played with in a recent tourney, walked heel to toe along her entire line of putt on every hole, I guess to get the exact distance in her head. Is such an action ok? It slowed down play, put extra footprints right along her line and perhaps the line of me or other players and most of all was just annoying. Any rule broken?
June 26th, 2012 at 1:49 pmCarolyn,
June 26th, 2012 at 2:01 pmThe player was in violation of Rule 16-1a for touching their line of putt and incurred a two stroke penalty in stroke play and loss of hole penalty in match play for every violation. See Decision 16-1a/2 for further clarification.
Just a follow up: if the player walks to the side of her line doing her silly walk, we just have to tolerate the waste of time?
June 26th, 2012 at 9:37 pmCarolyn,
June 27th, 2012 at 8:34 amIf the player’s pre-shot routine is unduly delaying play, she would incur a penalty under Rule 6-7. Otherwise, there is no penalty for walking along side her line of putt.
As we approached the putting green, we noticed that there was a workmans towel or rag on the putting surface. This rag was directly behind the hole and in line with my putt, acting as a backstop if you will. Am I required to remove the rag before I putt? conversley, if that obstruction was say a palm frond that had blown onto the green ,and is between my ball and the hole,before we got there, would that have to be left alone, because moving it would be improving the Lie of the shot?
June 28th, 2012 at 1:24 pmSkip,
June 28th, 2012 at 1:29 pmThe rag is considered a movable obstruction and may be left there or removed before playing your stroke, without penalty. See Rule 24-1. A palm frond is a loose impediment by definition and may either be removed or left there before playing your stroke. See Rule 23-1.
A player tees up his ball on the tee box and addresses the ball. He whiffs the shot completely, the ball still sitting on the tee. He is now hitting 2. Does he still hit the ball off of the tee, or does take a drop to hit his second shot?
July 2nd, 2012 at 7:17 amJack,
July 2nd, 2012 at 8:15 amOnce the player has played a stroke at the ball from within the teeing ground, the ball is play. The tee is, by definition, a movable obstruction (Rule 24-1). The player may choose to play the ball as it lies on the tee or pick up the ball, remove the tee and drop the ball as near as possible to the spot where it lay on top of the tee.
My ball landed on a tarmac path where a free drop is normally allowed.
On this occasion the nearest point of relief is an area of blue stakes immediately adjacent to the left of the path.
Is the other side, to the right of the path, (in the rough) an option for a drop? Or should the drop be taken from the father left side of the blue stakes area on the fairway?
The second option would be taking relief twice.
Thanks hoping this makes sense.
July 2nd, 2012 at 8:32 amJ. Weightman
J Weightman,
I am not sure what the blue stakes are identifying. I am going to assume that it is ground under repair. If that is the case, I think Decision 1-4/8 would probably cover it.
1-4/8
July 2nd, 2012 at 8:47 amNearest Point of Relief from Cart Path Is in Casual Water; Nearest Point of Relief from Casual Water Is Back on Cart Path
Q. A player’s ball lies on a paved cart path from which he wishes to take relief under Rule 24-2b(i). It appears that the nearest point of relief will be in a large area of casual water which adjoins the cart path and the nearest point of relief from the casual water under Rule 25-1b(i) would be back on the cart path. What are the player’s options?
A. The player may proceed in accordance with Rule 24-2 and then, if applicable, Rule 25-1. He is not entitled to take relief from both the immovable obstruction and the casual water in a single procedure, unless after proceeding under these Rules, the player is essentially back where he started and it is evident that such a procedure is necessary to obtain relief from both conditions.
Therefore, the player should proceed as follows:
1. He may lift and drop the ball in accordance with Rule 24-2b(i) in the casual water.
2. He may play the ball as it lies or take relief from the casual water, in which case he would lift and drop the ball in accordance with Rule 25-1b(i).
3. If the ball when dropped comes to rest in such a position that there is interference by the cart path, he may play the ball as it lies or proceed in accordance with Rule 24-2b(i). If the nearest point of relief is in the casual water, as an additional option, the player may, in equity (Rule 1-4) obtain relief without penalty as follows: Using the new position of the ball on the cart path, the nearest point of relief from both the cart path and the casual water shall be determined which is not in a hazard or on a putting green. The player shall lift the ball and drop it within one club-length of and not nearer the hole than the nearest point of relief, on a part of the course which avoids interference by the cart path and the casual water and is not in a hazard or on a putting green.
If the dropped ball rolls into a position where there is interference by either the cart path or the casual water, Rule 20-2c applies.
The same principle would apply if there was interference from any two conditions, i.e., casual water, a hole made by a burrowing animal, an immovable obstruction, from which relief without penalty was available and in taking relief from one condition it resulted in interference from the second condition.
What is the rule, On a par three, player plays his ball from teeing area wide of the green into a wooded area. Player then plays a provisional ball free tee onto the green. Player finds his ball located in the wooded area. Player then plays ball from the wooded area onto the green. Ball played from wooded area strikes player’s provisional ball laying on the green. What would be the ruling ?
July 2nd, 2012 at 10:32 amDecision 19-5/5 Provisional Ball Struck by Original Ball
July 2nd, 2012 at 10:57 amQ. A player’s original ball strikes and moves his provisional ball. What is the ruling?
A. Rule 19-5 does not apply because the provisional ball was not in play. Rule 19-2 does not apply because the provisional ball is not the equipment of the player – see Decision 18/7. In equity (Rule 1-4) and by analogy to Rule 19-5a, the player shall play the ball as it lies and no penalty is incurred except that, in stroke play, if both balls lay on the putting green prior to the stroke, the player incurs a penalty of two strokes.
A player misses the fairway, and his ball lands near a tree with a Wasp Nest in it. As he addresses his ball, he is attacked be angry Wasps. Is there a rule covering this?
July 2nd, 2012 at 3:22 pmR. Rosenquist,
July 2nd, 2012 at 7:25 pmBelieve it or not, there is a Rule that covers that. Decision 1-4/10:
Q. A player’s ball comes to rest in a situation dangerous to the player, e.g., near a live rattlesnake or a bees’ nest. In equity (Rule 1-4), does the player have any options in addition to playing the ball as it lies or, if applicable, proceeding under Rule 26 or 28?
A. Yes. It is unreasonable to expect the player to play from such a dangerous situation and unfair to require the player to incur a penalty under Rule 26 (Water Hazards) or Rule 28 (Ball Unplayable).
If the ball lay through the green, the player may, without penalty, drop a ball within one club-length of and not nearer the hole than the nearest spot not nearer the hole that is not dangerous and is not in a hazard and not on a putting green.
If the ball lay in a hazard, the player may drop a ball, without penalty, within one club-length of and not nearer the hole than the nearest spot not nearer the hole that is not dangerous. If possible, the ball must be dropped in the same hazard and, if not possible, in a similar nearby hazard, but in either case not nearer the hole. If it is not possible for the player to drop the ball in a hazard, he may drop it, under penalty of one stroke, outside the hazard, keeping the point where the original ball lay between the hole and the spot on which the ball is dropped.
If the ball lay on the putting green, the player may, without penalty, place a ball at the nearest spot not nearer the hole that is not dangerous and that is not in a hazard.
If interference by anything other than the dangerous situation makes the stroke clearly impracticable or if the situation would be dangerous only through the use of a clearly unreasonable stroke or an unnecessarily abnormal stance, swing, or direction of play, the player may not take relief as prescribed above, but he is not precluded from proceeding under Rule 26or 28 if applicable. (Revised)
Our golf course maintance people have been watering our course very heavily. We live in a hot area of the country. One of the bunkers was completely filled with water with nowhere to drop if your ball ended up in it. If your ball did end up in the bunker, what are your options? Do you have to take a penalty for dropping outside of the bunker, or is it “ground under repair”?
July 6th, 2012 at 7:56 pmLucille,
The Committee may declare the bunkers to be Ground Under Repair as stated in Decision 33-8/27 Local Rule Providing Relief Without Penalty from Bunker Filled with Casual Water
Q. May a Committee make a Local Rule allowing a player to drop out of any bunker filled with casual water, without penalty, contrary to Rule 25-1b(ii)?
A. No. The Committee may not make a Local Rule providing generally that flooded bunkers are ground under repair through the green, as such a Local Rule waives a penalty imposed by the Rules of Golf, contrary to Rule 33-8b.
However, in exceptional circumstances, where certain specific bunkers are completely flooded and there is no reasonable likelihood of the bunkers drying up during the round, the Committee may introduce a Local Rule providing relief without penalty from specific bunkers. Prior to introducing such a Local Rule, the Committee must be convinced that such exceptional circumstances exist and that providing relief without penalty from specific bunkers is more appropriate than simply applying Rule 25-1b(ii). If the Committee elects to introduce a Local Rule, the following wording is suggested:
“The flooded bunker on [insert location of bunker; e.g., left of 5th green] is ground under repair. If a player’s ball lies in that bunker or if that bunker interferes with the player’s stance or the area of his intended swing and the player wishes to take relief, he must take relief outside the bunker, without penalty, in accordance with Rule 25-1b(i). All other bunkers on the course, regardless of whether they contain water, maintain their status as hazards and the Rules apply accordingly.”
In a competition played over more than one round, such a Local Rule may be introduced or rescinded between rounds. (Revised)
Otherwise, the players would need to proceed under the options as prescribed in Rule 25-1b or their options under Rule 28.
July 7th, 2012 at 11:01 amPlayer misses a putt in a tournament and bats it across the green in frustration. His playing partners retrieve it and toss it back. He replaces it and knocks it in on this the 5th hole. He knows there are no gimmes by this point. What should the ruling be? Does stupidity/frustration fall under the accidental hit ruling; is a penalty stoke and play on the correct ruling?
July 9th, 2012 at 5:51 pmwe have a player that continues to post scores from the wrong tees which raises his handicap enough that he has won tournaments…and was warned and continues to post from wrong tees…any advice on what we should do as a committee and proper penalty period thanks
July 9th, 2012 at 6:19 pmHi Ryan,
July 9th, 2012 at 9:01 pmA large boulder that is no embedded is a loose impediment. May a committee make a local rule declaring such a boulder as an Integral Part of the Course or can this ONLY be done for obstructions.
Ben,
The player is penalized one stroke under Rule 18-2a for moving his ball. It is not a stroke. Since he replaced the ball and holed out, there is no additional penalty.
Decision 18-2a/23 Ball Knocked from Lip of Hole in Disgust:
July 10th, 2012 at 8:27 amQ. In stroke play, a competitor’s ball stops on the lip of the hole. In disgust the competitor knocks his ball off the green with the back of his putter. What is the ruling?
A. The competitor must replace the ball under penalty of one stroke (Rule 18-2a). The competitor is not considered to have made a stroke.
Anthony,
July 10th, 2012 at 9:11 amNo, the Committee may not declare a loose impediment to be an integral part of the course. By definition, the Committee may only declare an obstruction as an integral part of the course. If the Committee wishes to deny a player relief from the boulders, I would recommend that they solidly embed them so they are no longer loose impediments.
Larry Denning, thank you for your comment. No golfer is entitled to a handicap . . . they have to earn it. By the sounds of things, this golfer has definitely forfeited his claim to a handicap. I would seriously consider withdrawing his handicap. In doing so his handicap record is not inactivated, his NCGA membership is not inactivated, he does continue to post scores. It’s just that each revision he is issued the letters WD as a handicap instead of numbers. And good luck to him trying to play in tournaments with letters instead of numbers. Thanks again and best of luck, Jim Cowan, Director of Course Rating and Handicapping
July 10th, 2012 at 9:02 pmAs the handicap chair at my club, I received this query about an unplayable ball. Is this true? Is there such a thing as the “spirit” of the game to keep someone from using this method?
Say you have a 3 foot putt downhill — you attempt the putt and the ball rolls past the hole and 60 feet off the green — can you replace the ball in its original spot with a 1 stroke penalty
A. You can replay the ball under rule 28-A the Ball Unplayable Rule
A player may call his ball unplayable at any place on the course except when the ball is in a water hazard. The player is the sole judge as to whether his ball is unplayable.
If the player deems his ball to be unplayable, he must, under penalty of one stroke:
(a) Play a ball as nearly as possible at the spot from which the original ball was last played or
(b) Drop a ball behind the point where the ball lay, keeping that point directly between the hole and the spot on which the ball is dropped, with no limit to how far behind that point the ball may be dropped; or
(c) Drop a ball within two club-lengths of the spot where the ball lay, but not nearer the hole.
Penalty for Breach of Rule: Match play — Loss of hole; Stroke play — Two strokes.
If the unplayable ball is in a bunker, the player may proceed under Clause a, b or c. If he elects to proceed under Clause b or c, a ball must be dropped in the bunker. The ball may be lifted and cleaned when proceeding under this Rule.
Thanks for clearing this up for us.
July 12th, 2012 at 7:18 pmLarry
Larry,
July 12th, 2012 at 7:32 pmPlaying under stroke and distance is not considered a violation of the spirit of the game. Rule 27 permits a player, at any time, to play a ball as near as possible at the spot from which the original ball was last played with a one stroke penalty. It is also permited as an option under Rule 28a.
This question is more a PGA Tour question. Is there any rule that prohibits caddies from using pull carts to “carry” their player’s bags? I cannot think of any unfair advantage to having caddies using the pull carts and could see it helping speed up play, especially in hot/ muggy weather.
July 13th, 2012 at 1:47 pmSteven,
July 14th, 2012 at 9:23 amI am not aware of a local rule or condition of comptition that prohibits a player’s caddie from using a pull cart in either a USGA or PGA Tour event. I suppose the caddies freel that the cart would restrict them from certain spots on the course that they might otherwise be able to go while carrying the golf bag.
This happened yesterday. The ball was found in a lateral hazard. The spot 2 club lengths from where the ball crossed the hazard caused a drainage ditch to interfere with the player’s stance. Is he entitled to take relief from the drainage ditch as well as the hazard? Or must one of the other hazard options be used? What is the procedure for taking relief from both the hazard and ditch is this is permissible?
July 15th, 2012 at 8:11 amThanks–Pat
Pat,
July 16th, 2012 at 6:17 amI am not sure what the drainage ditch is. By definition a drainage ditch is also a water hazard. If it is a separate water hazard, the player may drop the ball within two club lengths of the first hazard and if she is standing in the second hazard she is not required to re-drop the ball and must play it as it lies. If the drainage ditch is defined as an immovable obstruction, she would take relief from the ditch as prescribed in Rule 24-1. It would be a two-step process of taking relief from the lateral water hazard and then the immovable obstruction.
Our course has no local rule regarding embedded balls. Our foursome had an issue with an embedded ball in a soft area in the rough where there was no grass. We are familiar with Rule 25-2, specifically, as it relates to “closely mown areas” (i.e. any area cut to fairway height or less). The question is: does a spot that contains no grass and is not technically “closely mown” but is “fairway height or less”, qualify for relief under the Embedded Ball rule?
July 17th, 2012 at 9:07 amMike,
July 17th, 2012 at 5:01 pmNo, the player would not be entitled to relief unde 25-2 because the rough is not “cut” to fairway height or less.
The rule book clearly explains how to mark a ball when lifting it. Is there any explanation on how to mark the limits of where a ball is to be dropped within one or two club lengths when taking relief or using an option for dropping from a hazard? I see them use tees on the PGA tour, but can find no explanation in the rule book. Please help.
July 19th, 2012 at 8:17 pmThanks–Pat
Pat,
July 20th, 2012 at 10:14 amThe Rules of Golf do not explain how the player should mark the extent of an area where a player is to drop the ball. It is customary for players to mark the area with a tee or some other small object. There are several decisions that discuss the issue. Decision 24-2b/2 Player does not follow the recommended procedure in determining nearest point of relief. Decision 20/1 & 20/2 Club used for measuring purposes. Decision 20-2a/6 Glove used to indicate area to drop. Please read up on these for further clarification.
Can a local rule be invoked to allow lift and “placing” a ball in a sand bunker due to casual water instead of the normal rule of lifting and “dropping” it in the bunker no closer to the hole due to what the committee feels is an “abnormal condition”, i.e. mud/crusty sand in the bunker which normally is not maintained by the course owners which boarders up to the casual water/mud in the bunker?
July 21st, 2012 at 11:27 amStan,
July 22nd, 2012 at 2:10 pmNo. The Committee may not adopt a Local Rule to permit players to place a ball under Rule 25-1. This would waive a Rule of Golf and per Rule 33, the Committee may not waive a Rule of Golf.
I hit a drive on a par three to the left over a water hazard filled with high reeds that obstructed view of everything on the left side of the hole and beyond (on the left). Our foursome had never played the course before; I didn’t know if it was OB, lost, in the water hazard or still through the green. I do know that it crossed the water hazard boundary closest to us. I hit a provisional but moved closer to the hole to hit it, dropping on a point behind the point of entry to the hazard and on a line that included the pin and the point of hazard-entry. Was this legal — to hit a provisional while following the drop-rules for a water hazard? In reading rule 26-1, it seems that rule 27-1 should have applied and a provisional could only have been hit from where the original stroke was made (i.e. the tee box where I hit my drive) .
July 23rd, 2012 at 3:05 pmBrian,
July 23rd, 2012 at 5:05 pmA provisional ball, by definition, is a ball played under Rule 27-2 for a ball that may be lost outside a water hazard or may be out of bounds. A provisional ball is played to save time and must be played from the location of the previous stroke. When you dropped the ball under one of your options under 26-1, it was not a provisional ball.
The NCGA currently updates the handicap index twice a month, at the beginning and in the middle of the month. Our Pro stated the beginning of the month index is the “legal” index for the month. The mid-month index is only to let the golfer know how he is doing as he progresses towards the next month. Several members feel the “legal” index is the “current” index, whether it be the first of the month or mid month. What is the correct interpretation?
July 31st, 2012 at 6:38 pmJohn, thank you for your comment. Every handicap in the country is “officially” updated on the 1st and 15th of the month and the handicaps issued on the 15th carry the same weight as those issued on the 1st. Thanks again, Jim Cowan, Director of Course Rating and Handicapping
August 1st, 2012 at 8:39 amWhat is the rule regarding practice during a tournament round?
In a recent tournament, one of the players decided to practice chipping on the par 3 4th tee box while we were waiting for the green to clear.
I was under the impression that in match play (which this tourney was not) you could practice on the course (putting or chipping) after you have finished playing a hole.
I thought that this being an Official NCGA Associate Club tournament, you could not practice hit any balls (except on the course’s practice area before the round) on the course at any time before, during or until the final tournament group has finished their round. I thought the penalty for hitting a ball anywhere on the course other than your ball that you will be scoring would result in a DQ.
Our rules committee guru says that I am making it up and that the PGA may have this rule but the NCGA does not.
Another club member says he has heard of this rule. I really need a clarification. What is the rule?
August 4th, 2012 at 6:17 pmPlayer A accidentally plays the ball of Player B. The ball is not immediately recoverable so A places a ball (a) on the spot from where he played the ball or (b) next to the divot made when the ball was played in accordance with 20-3b. Player B then plays the ball. Is such a procedure correct? or must B do the placing of the ball? And what if A wasn’t so sure where the spot of the ball was located?
August 5th, 2012 at 3:39 pmA Golf course owner recently asked a club officer of his course if he was a member of the NCGA. He was not, he was the Handicap chairmen. The Owner of the course insists that all members of a club/committee who serves under the local president of the same golf course must be a NCGA member to serve on the club.
Is this true?
August 5th, 2012 at 9:52 pmRobert,
August 6th, 2012 at 7:57 amRule 7-2 permits a player to practice on or near the teeing ground of the next hole to be played. The Committee does not have the authority to prohibit practice in this area. For additional clarification see the following link: http://content.yudu.com/A1wkmx/NCGASpring2012/resources/74.htm
Ed,
August 6th, 2012 at 8:07 amRule 20-3 allows the person that moved the ball, the player or his partner to replace the ball. If the original location is unknown: through the green or in a hazard, the ball must be dropped (by Player A) as near as possible to the original spot (Rule 20-3c). On the putting green, it must be placed.
Ryan, thank you for your comment. The Handicap System does require that the majority of the Handicap Committee must be made up of members and that the Chair must be a member. Perhaps the golf course owner was thinking in these terms. Thanks again, Jim Cowan, Director of Course Rating and Handicapping
August 6th, 2012 at 4:16 pmIn a stroke play tournament, player A hits his tee shot into the left trees. Since he was walking and the other 3 players were riding, they drive and located his ball for him. The other 3 players then proceeded to their own ball. Player A plays his 2nd stroke, then as he continues to walk towards the green, he then realizes he did not play his ball on the 2nd stroke, he accidently played a random ball. Because none of the other 3 players know the official ruling, we have him finish out the hole with his own ball, and after the round check with the officials on the ruling. To our surprise, there was no penalty because he 1) didnt play a ball that belonged to the other 3 players and 2) he didnt PASS his original ball. Had he played the wrong ball and noticed when he was on the green, then he would be assessed a penalty. Is this the correct ruling? Thanks.
August 6th, 2012 at 5:42 pmJL,
August 7th, 2012 at 8:22 amNo, that is not the correct ruling. Player A incured a two stroke penalty under Rule 15-3 for playing a wrong ball. He was required to correct the error, which he did. Please see Rule 15-3 for clarification.
My course uses stumps as yardage markers on some holes. My ball came to rest 3 inches behind one of the stump yardage markers and I say I get a free drop. My playing partner says no I don’t, so there is a lunch bet on this situation. Who is correct?
August 8th, 2012 at 5:16 amRick,
August 8th, 2012 at 8:20 amSorry, It looks like you are buying. A stump is a natural object, not artificial, thus it is not an obstruction (Definition of “Obstruction”)regardless of whether it is used to indicate yardage.
A white line on the 16th hole at our course indicates the boundary for the golf course, but there are also whites stakes which are placed within a foot or two of the line on the inbound side. Do the stakes then become moveable obstructions? (They are moveable)
August 9th, 2012 at 10:11 amRandy,
August 9th, 2012 at 3:41 pmThe Committee may choose to treat the stakes as obstructions by Local Rule only, as stated in Note 2 of the definition of out of bounds. Otherwise, they are not considered obstructions.
I apologize if this is not the proper place to submit a rules question. This is the only place I see on the “Stump the Rules Expert” web pagfe, but the title above says “Leave a Reply to This Article”, so I’m thinking it may not be the proper place to leave a question, but I’ll give it a try. It’s a two part question. If my ball is on a cart path, I know I get free relief, but my question is, MUST I drop the ball such that my feet are no longer on the cart path at ADDRESS. There was a hill close to the cart path with only a couple feet of flat space, so I dropped it in the flat space, keeping my feet on the cart path. That got me to wondering, what if my ball remained on the grass (in other words not actually on the cart path) , but my feet were on the cart path at address. Can I still take free relief, but keep my feet on the cart path (or a portion of the cart path)?
August 14th, 2012 at 1:55 pmWayne,
August 14th, 2012 at 2:00 pmIf you chose to take relief as prescribed under Rule 24-2, you must take complete relief. Rule 20-2c states that the ball must be redropped if it rolls and comes to rest in a position where there is interference by the condition from which relief was taken under Rule 24-2. If you play a stroke at a ball without taking complete relief, you incur a penalty of loss of hole in match play or two strokes in stroke play.
Friend tees ball up on number 10 hole. Hits slice that goes into the cup on number 12 green. Under what rule does he remove the ball from the cup and place it one club length from the number 12 green no closer to the hole that he is playing which is number 10. We found USGA Rule 25-3. (Ball on wrong putting surface).
August 14th, 2012 at 6:57 pmThis is not so much a rules question as it is a course slope and rating one. If a course has been ‘rated’ by the NCGA and then drop zones are added to speed up play, and make the hole(s) considerably less penal, does that now affect the course slope and rating and if so by how much?
August 15th, 2012 at 11:26 amDan,
August 15th, 2012 at 11:55 amRule 25-3 is the correct Rule for a ball on a wrong putting green or even in the hole on a wrong putting green.
The disagreement was with the ball hit from tee 10 going into the hole on number 12 was: One player thought that the ball ruling used would be 16-7, the hole being declared “ground under repair”. I disagree because I feel that rule applies to two holes on one green such as is the situation on many European Link Courses. Two holes on one green, if the ball goes into the wrong hole the hole is declared “ground under repair”, and the approperiate relief rules apply. Right or wrong in the originally listed example, player tees off on #10 and slices ball into hole on #12 green, it is lifted from the cup, dropped one club length no nearer hole #10 without penalty using USGA Rule 25-3 (Ball on wrong putting surface), or as you stated makes no difference, wrong putting surface or in hole on wrong putting surface, it’s rule 25-3. Thanks for your time.
August 15th, 2012 at 6:33 pmBobG, thank you for your comment. Drop areas are a part of golf and are permitted by the Rules of Golf. Hopefully the drop areas that have been installed do not circumvent the Rules. In any event, drop areas do not impact Course Ratings. The hole earns a number based on the length of the carry over the water (and at 165 yards, the Bogey golfer would be awarded a high rating for water). Thanks again. Jim Cowan, Director of Course Rating and Handicapping
August 15th, 2012 at 8:40 pmIn match play; your down 2 holes, on the next to last hole an opponent misses a 3′ putt, he then reaches down and picks up his ball, rolls it in his fingers to clean it, then sets it down then makes the put. He scores a 4 to tie you, says the match is over and walks away. You are confused about it and confront him at the clubhouse. I asked if he marked the ball? His partner says yes, then no he just tapped it in. I said no he picked it up without marking it. then the opponent said yes I marked it and I said no you didn’t, he said yes I marked it with my foot. I said oh can you do that, he said yes. So my question is; can you do so and how far away can your foot be. Can you use a foot,a club head, a flower, a leaf.
August 16th, 2012 at 10:44 amRule; does he lose the hole and we have to play the last hole?
Gary,
August 16th, 2012 at 11:03 amRule 20-1 recommends that the ball be marked with a small coin or other similar object behind the ball. Decision 20-1/16 describes the different methods a player may use to mark the position of the ball, including using the head of the putter, a tee, a loose impediment, etc. The common theme is that something be physically put there by the player to mark the position of the ball and it be done so the ball can be placed back in it’s original position. Using a foot is probably not the best practice, but legal. The players foot would have to be closer than 2 inches to the ball as Decision 20-1/20 penalizes a player for placing a mark 2 inches behind the ball. I honestly can’t tell from your descripton whether or not the ball was or was not marked with the players foot and how close it was.
Have a question;
Can a Player who hits his ball out of bounds or in the Water hit his next shot from the tee Box an STILL USE A TEE/
August 19th, 2012 at 4:57 pmRoger,
August 20th, 2012 at 8:27 amRule 20-5 states that when a player is required or elects to proceed under stroke and distance and the previous stroke was made from within the teeing ground, the ball may be teed anywhere within the teeing ground.
Is a player allowed to wear ear-plugs when teeing off close to the clubhouse to eliminate noise from the club members?
August 21st, 2012 at 12:25 pmShort question:
If a ball is in the hole, is it considered to be on the green??
August 21st, 2012 at 1:31 pmCarol,
August 21st, 2012 at 2:35 pmNo, a player may not wear earplugs to eliminate distractions. This would be a disqualification penalty under Rule 14-3.
Mark,
August 21st, 2012 at 4:31 pmInteresting question. No, the ball is not on the putting green when it lies in the hole.
Hi Greg,
August 23rd, 2012 at 11:21 amA county road separates the front and back nines. A tee shot on #1 hits the red tee block and bounces backwards across the OB territory of the road and comes to rest on the opposite side of the road on club property. Is it still out of bounds or in play?
Ryan, Thanks to the reply about the wearing of ear plugs for which you state the penalty is disqualification under Rule 14-3. As the player only actually wears the ear plugs for one tee in front of the clubhouse can the committee use the ‘exception’ for this rule:
The Committee is satisfied that its use does not give the player any undue advantage over other players.
August 24th, 2012 at 10:44 amHello and good morning,
In a recent tournament a player yanked a drive severly to the left and onto the green of an adjoining hole. The ball was entiely playable but we were all consisant in not knowing what the rule was in regarding either plaing from the surface of the green or taking a drop.
What say you?
Thank you!!
August 24th, 2012 at 10:47 amMy buddy was telling me that I would not be able to have my iPhone 4 at any NCGA tourney. I use an app that keeps my score and tracks my shots. He told me that there is a rule that limits any electronic devices on the course which can download and has GPS. Is he right or is he messing with me? I am trying to qualify for the NCGA Associate Club Net Amateur Qualifying on Thursday and I don’t want to do something to mess it up. What do the experts say?
August 24th, 2012 at 12:08 pmPat,
August 24th, 2012 at 1:46 pmUnless the Committee has adopted a Local Rule declaring a ball that crosses the road that is defined as out of bounds and comes to rest on another part of the course is out of bounds then the ball is in play. See Decision 27/20.
Carol,
August 24th, 2012 at 1:51 pmNo, the Committee may not allow a player to wear the earplugs because they are wearing them to avoid distractions which are part of the game. The player’s intent to use them for this purpose is the violation. The exception under 14-3 is if the player needs them for a medical purpose and the Committee also feels that the player is not gaining an advantage.
Michael,
August 24th, 2012 at 1:55 pmIf the player has played a stroke from the wrong putting green, he incurred a two stroke penalty under Rule 25-3. Regardless if he knew it was a penalty. Rule 6-1 states that is the player’s responsibility to know the Rules.
Carlos,
August 24th, 2012 at 2:00 pmYou may use your iPhone to keep track of your scores and stats. However, you may not use it as a distance measuring device or use any application on the phone that is prohibited under the Rules of Golf (ie, weather, compass, etc.). See Decision 14-3/16 for further clarification along with the NCGA’s clarification on the use of smartphones: http://www.ncga.org/wp-content/uploads/Phone-Apps1.pdf?9d7bd4
After hitting my tee-shot, I proceeded to to about 100 yards from the green, in the middle of the fairway, where I thought I hit my ball. After a minute or two looking for it, I found it almost exactly where I thought I had hit it – BUT it was now in TWO pieces! The ‘halves’ were about 2 or 3 yards apart from each other, one of which was further away from the green. Since I was not OB I decided to drop a ball where the FURTHER back half was resting and proceeded to play out the hole with a new ball. Two of the women I was playing with (this was not a tournament day – just our friendly bi-weekly outing) thought I should have gone back to the tee-box and hit another ball. Was I wrong in not giving myself any penalties? What is the correct way to handle this, just in case something like this ever happens again (though admittedly this is probably a once in a lifetime event! (And it was a wonderful Srixon…..guess there are always product defects even with the best of brands!)
August 26th, 2012 at 6:25 pmRochelle,
August 27th, 2012 at 10:21 amThe ball is considered to have broken as a result of the stroke and Rule 5-3 applies.
You must return to the tee and replay the stroke without penalty. See Decision 5-3/4 for further clarification.
If a one day golf tournament is scheduled to be played and is cancelled and rescheduled for a later date, may the players practice on the tournament course on the original tournament date?
August 27th, 2012 at 6:08 pmMax,
August 28th, 2012 at 8:21 amYes, Rule 7-1 states that the players may not practice on the course on the day of the competition. Since this competition is on another day, the players may practice on the course.
Hello,
Lot’s of discussion in our 19th Hole about the following situation. Would like your input. We have on our course a situation where a tee ball hit to the right of the fairway could end up out of bounds or end up in a lateral water hazard (marked red). There was lots of discussion about options off the tee with regards to provisional ball being played at the tee vs walking up to mid-fairway to determine if ball is OB (or lost) or found in hazard. Something about new rule that allows provisional ball, however if original ball found has to be played as lies vs normal options for lateral hazard. Any input appreciated. Thanks.
Jim
September 1st, 2012 at 4:29 pmJim,
There is a Local Rule in Appendix I that permits a player to play a provisional ball for a ball that may be lost in a water hazard.
1. Water Hazards; Ball Played Provisionally Under Rule 26-1
If a water hazard (including a lateral water hazard) is of such size and shape and/or located in such a position that:
(i) it would be impracticable to determine whether the ball is in the hazard or to do so would unduly delay play, and
(ii) if the original ball is not found, it is known or virtually certain that it is in the water hazard,
the Committee may introduce a Local Rule permitting the play of a ball provisionally under Rule 26-1. The ball is played provisionally under any of the applicable options under Rule 26-1 or any applicable Local Rule. In such a case, if a ball is played provisionally and the original ball is in a water hazard, the player may play the original ball as it lies or continue with the ball played provisionally, but he may not proceed under Rule 26-1 with regard to the original ball.
In these circumstances, the following Local Rule is recommended:
“If there is doubt whether a ball is in or is lost in the water hazard (specify location), the player may play another ball provisionally under any of the applicable options in Rule 26-1.
If the original ball is found outside the water hazard, the player must continue play with it.
If the original ball is found in the water hazard, the player may either play the original ball as it lies or continue with the ball played provisionally under Rule 26-1.
If the original ball is not found or identified within the five-minute search period, the player must continue with the ball played provisionally.
This Local Rule must be adopted by the Committee, otherwise, a player is not permitted to play a provisional ball for a ball that may be lost in a water hazard.
September 4th, 2012 at 8:00 amRyan -
Decision 20-4/1: After a player had replaced his ball on the green but had not removed his ball marker, the wind moved his ball to another position. The decision says the player must play the ball from its new position because: “Under Rule 20-4, a ball is in play when it is replaced, whether or not the object used to mark its position has been removed. Consequently the ball must be played from the new position — see Decision 18-1/12.” Decision 18-1/12 says essentially the same thing but does not state the ball marker has not been removed — it reminds us that wind is not an outside agency so the ball must be played from the new position.
Often a player will replace his ball on the putting green and, without removing his ball marker, twist the ball (without moving it) to align a horizontal stripe on the ball to his intended line of the putt, and then remove the ball marker. If the ball is in play under Rule 20-4 and Decision 20-4/1 when he replaces it next to his ball marker, why is the player not penalized under Rule 18-2(a) for purposely touching his ball when he twists the ball to align the horizontal stripe on the ball?
The Rules do not define “replace” and I can’t find a decision addressing this issue. Thanks.
September 5th, 2012 at 4:34 pmPeter,
The ball marker is there to allow a player to touch it purposely without being penalized.
Replacing the ball means getting the ball back in play on a spot or in a location. Therefore, sometimes you place it and sometimes you drop it. As demonstrated in Rule 20-3.
PLACING – This is the first time this ball is being placed in this place.
REPLACING – Everything Else.
September 6th, 2012 at 8:10 amI know that you are allowed relief if your ball is found in a burrowing animal hole but are allowed relief your ball in not in a burrowing animal hole but your stance is “on” or “in” a burrowing animal hole.
September 6th, 2012 at 9:46 amKen,
September 6th, 2012 at 10:32 amYes, Rule 25-1 entitles a player relief for interference for his stance.
Amateur status questions…
1. may an amateur resell a club that he bought to a friend?
also, may he resell a club that he won in a tournament to a friend?
2. may an amateur golfer be paid for taking a beginner out to play golf with the basis being to teach etiquette? also, if this person gives a few basic pointers throughout the round is this considered instruction?
September 15th, 2012 at 8:53 amAlso, 1. may an amateur appear in the background of a tv ad for no compensation
and 2. may an amateur golfer who works at a golf course give his friend tips while he is working (therefore being paid hourly but not for giving the instruction)
September 15th, 2012 at 6:31 pmPlease help myself and my brother on this rule which seems to have some grey area’s. My brother was playing a match at his local club. On number 16 (Diamond Run GC, Pittsburgh), The tee shot requires you to hit over a gully that is market by red stakes (lateral water hazard). My brothers tee shot went into the hazard near the top of the other side. He declared a provisional ball incase it was not findable. He hit the provisional ball over the gully in the center of the fairway. When he got to the other side of the ravine he noticed his first ball was very playable in the lateral water hazard. His opponent said his was not able to play that one because he had already hit a provisional, Is that correct? Doesn’t Decision 27-2a/2.2 allow him to play the first ball if he has not made another swing at the provisional ball?
September 16th, 2012 at 7:54 amhttp://www.barryrhodes.com/2012_06_01_archive.html
Thanks for any clarification on the provisional ball rule,
Tim
Playing golf recently near Truckee several greens had footprints of deer such that a putt could easily be deflected off line. What repair options are available?
September 16th, 2012 at 9:52 amTim,
September 17th, 2012 at 8:15 amWhen your brother played his tee shot did he think the ball was lost in the hazard? Rule 27-2 (Provisional Ball) does not permit a player to play a provisional ball for a ball that may be lost in a water hazard. The second ball he played from the tee, became the ball in play and the original was lost. If he thought the ball could be lost outside the water hazard he was permitted to play a provisional ball. When he found the original ball in the water hazard his provisional ball was no longer in play and he must continue with the original.Also see Decision 27-2a/2.5
Ed,
September 17th, 2012 at 8:21 amRule 16-1 permits a player to fix ball marks and old hole plugs only. Any other damage on the player’s line of putt may not be repaired. The player would have to contact a Committee member and they could either fix the deer tracks or declare them to be ground under repair. See analogous Decision 16-1a/15
Max,
A player may sell clubs that he bought to a friend without violating his amateur status.
A player may not sell clubs that he won in a tournament. This is a violation of Rule 3-1. A player may not convert a prize into cash.
A player that is paid for giving any instruction on any of the physical aspects of playing golf would be violation of amateur status. Etiquette is okay.
A player that appears in an advertisement based on his golf skill or reputation would be in violation of amateur status. If he has no reputation as an elite golfer he would not be in violation for appearing.
A player that gives instruction while working, and getting paid, would be in violation of amateur status if they are doing so to circumvent the Rules or it is part of his job while working at the course.
September 17th, 2012 at 11:02 amMy friend asked me the following question:
He had laid a club on the ground, and he hit it on his back swing and completed his stroke. Is there a penalty for having hit his equipment?
I looked up the question in my Decision on the Rules of Golf book,
September 17th, 2012 at 2:29 pmbut I was not able to find the answer.
Nobu,
September 17th, 2012 at 2:35 pmAs long as the club was not placed in a position to align the player for his stroke, there is no penalty. Hitting your equipment with the club in the act of making a stroke is not addressed in the Rules of Golf.
During the NCGA Senior tournament my drive ended up in the left rough near some low hanging branches. During my practice swing, my club clipped the branch and dislodged some flowering blooms that fell to the ground around me. I then punched out of the rough back into the fairway since I realized I had no swing to the green because of branches. While it did not improve my lie, should I have been penalized for hitting the branches and dislodging some minor foliage? What if I had been in a hazard?
September 19th, 2012 at 8:44 amRule 17-1
What does the word attended mean exactly? There is no definition in the Rules of Golf.
Rule 17-1 note 1
Flagstick……..anyone stands near it while a stroke is been made he is deemed to be attending the flagstick. How is near defined?
Boston is not near to but Boston is nearer to London than San Francisco.
Is Poppy Hills Near to Pebble Beach?
How does this rule fit or how is it applied in view of Rule17-2?
September 19th, 2012 at 10:03 amDave,
September 20th, 2012 at 8:09 amIt is hard to tell from you description whether or not you area of intended swing was improved by the action of knocking down the flowering blooms. If your area of intended swing was improved by the action, you would incure a two stroke penalty for violation of Rule 13-2. Otherwise, there is no penalty. For additional clarification see Decision 13-2/0.5 and Decision 13-2/24. If you were in a hazard, it would depend on whether or not the blooms were loose. If they were loose, you would incur a two stroke penalty for violation of Rule 13-4.
Philip,
September 20th, 2012 at 8:13 amDecision 17-1/1 states that if a player stands close enough to the flagstick that he can reach out and touch it, he is deemed to be attending it. Poppy Hills is in the unincorperated community of Pebble Beach of Monterey County.
Player A and his partner Partner in a fourball match were riding in a golf cart looking for Player A’s ball. In the process they drove over the golf ball driving it part way underground in the rough. Subsequently, they realized that they had driven over the ball and decided to back up the golf cart. In so doing, they drove over and moved the ball once again. Should Player A be penalized and if so, how many strokes.
September 20th, 2012 at 6:06 pmVic,
September 21st, 2012 at 8:19 amYes, Player A incurred a one stroke penalty for violation of 18-2a. The ball must be replaced. Since the lie of the ball had been damaged, Rule 20-3b applies and the ball must be placed in the most similar lie within a club-length to where the ball originally lay.
Player A’s ball lies in the rough, whilst removing dead grass from around the ball Player A causes some growing nettles to move slightly (the ball was not moved at all in the process). Player B deems this a penalty. What is the ruling please?
September 22nd, 2012 at 4:37 amCarol,
September 24th, 2012 at 8:18 amUnless the player improved their situation in regards to Rule 13-2, I don’t beleive that there is a penalty.
A player in our Club Championships hits a play not sure itf its OB or in Play. He hit a provisional that goes OB. He and his group now search for his first ball ( time searching for the ball is not determined) . Not finding it he goes back to the tee box and hit two more provisional balls OB, and another one in the hazzard. The other player in his group then find his first ball. He then plays the first ball an abandons all the other balls.
Please advise the ruling.
Thank you,
Roger Hoff
September 26th, 2012 at 12:58 pmRoger,
September 26th, 2012 at 1:15 pmIt seems to me that the time it took to find the first ball was more than five minutes. When he continued to play the original ball after five minutes of begining to search for it, he has played a wrong ball and was required to correct the error prior to starting play of the next hole. He is disqualified for a breach of Rule 15-3.
During a shootout, prior to putting, Player A asks Player B to press down her ball marker. In doing so Player B’s marker inadvertently stuck to the bottom of her putter, so she replaced the marker to the original spot (or as near as possible). Is a penalty incurred?
(Decision 20-1/6.5 is similar, but not quite the same).
Thank you,
September 27th, 2012 at 2:04 pmJoyce
Joyce,
There is no penalty. The applicable decision is 20-1/6.
20-1/6 Ball-Marker Moved Accidentally by Player in Process of Marking Position of Ball
Q. A player marked the position of his ball with a coin, lifted the ball and pressed down the coin with the sole of his putter. He walked to the edge of the green and then noticed that the coin had stuck to the sole of the putter. What is the ruling?
A. In this case, the movement of the ball-marker was directly attributable to the specific act of marking the position of the ball.
September 27th, 2012 at 7:36 pmAccordingly, no penalty is incurred and the ball or the ball-marker must be replaced. If the spot where the ball or the ball-marker lay is not known, it must be placed as near as possible to where it lay but not nearer the hole (Rule 20-3c).
Hi Greg,
October 1st, 2012 at 1:33 pmWe have a lateral hazard under trees on the left of a fairway 6 feet away from a cart path. If you take 2 club lengths relief under penalty it is possible to just reach and drop on the edge of the cart path which is an immovable obstruction, sometimes the ball will remain on or go to the right of the path so that for right handed players they can gain further relief with a free drop away from being under the trees. Can you try and use the cart path when you drop from a hazard to get a further free drop, or should you drop in the 6 feet of rough between the hazard and left edge of the path, Rule 20-2c doesn’t mention re-dropping when ther’s interference from an imoveable obstruction.
John,
October 1st, 2012 at 2:19 pmThe player is required to drop within two club-lengths if proceeding under Rule 26-1c. If that spot can get him to the cart path, nothing in the Rules prohibit him from dropping on the cart path. Most likely, when the player drops on the cart path the ball will roll into a position under Rule 20-2c that requires it to be redropped. After being redropped with the same result the player will be required to place it on the spot from where it struck the cart path on the second drop. The player than may take relief from the cart path as prescribed in Rule 24-2. The nearest point of relief cannot be in the hazard. The player may have to drop on the fairway side of the cart path.
A player’s ball lies in a lateral hazard along the right side of the fairway in close proximity to the cart path. The Player’s is required to stand on the cart path to swing at his ball. Is he entitled to relief from the cart part when his ball lies in a hazard?
October 3rd, 2012 at 1:32 pmDave,
October 3rd, 2012 at 3:40 pmA player is not entitled to relief from an immovable obstruction when the ball lies in a lateral water hazard. See Rule 24-2b.
I know that the limit for the value of a prize won by an amateur is 750 dollars. But what happens if a group of four golfers win a foursome at an upscale course valued at 800 dollars total (200 per person). Since this prize cannot be split up are any players in violation by accepting the prize?
October 13th, 2012 at 9:10 amMax,
October 14th, 2012 at 9:24 amBased on the Decision in The USGA’s Amateur Status, there seems to be no violation of amateur status for the award.
3-2a/9
Maximum Permitted Prize in Foursome, Four-Ball or Team Competition
Q. Does the prize limit in Rule 3-2 apply to each individual player in a foursome,four-ball or team competition or to the partnership or team as a whole?
A. Each individual player may accept a prize of retail value up to the maximum as laid down in Rule 3-2. For example, in an 18-hole team competition each player in a four-man team may accept a prize of retail value not exceeding the prize limit. However, the players must not jointly accept a prize of a retail value in excess of the prize limit.
Ball comes to rest on the cart path where relief is granted. The entire right side of the path is marked as lateral hazard. The entire left side for 10 feet both forward and back is lined with shrubs with some small breaks. Where is the nearest point of relief? If you chose to take relief are you required to drop in a bush and then declare an unplayable? Or can you go back the 10′ and drop in front of the bushes?
October 15th, 2012 at 6:58 pmBobG,
October 16th, 2012 at 7:51 amThe player would have to drop in the bush at the nearest point of relief. The player may choose to play the ball from the cartpath. See decision 18-2a/12.5
My daughter was playing matchplay golf today and conceded a hole and she picked her ball up. The opponent wanted to continue on the hole as practice. She said he needed to cease playing as she had conceded the hole.
October 21st, 2012 at 5:50 amHe complained that in the Presidents Cup they were allowed to practice when hole conceded so why couldn’t he?
Should she have forced him to pick up immediately – was he within his rights to continue the hole – including if on the green to putt ie allowed to practice?
Thanks,
Brendan
Brendan,
October 22nd, 2012 at 8:29 amRule 7-2 states that strokes made after the result of the hole has been determined are not practice strokes. A player may choose to complete the play of the hole after the result has been decided.
Ryan,
October 28th, 2012 at 12:38 pmDoes Rule 18-2 apply if a player, in a bunker, has taken her stance and while preparing to make the shot, waggles her club “up and down” and in doing so “taps” the top of her ball? Would it not constitute “moving the ball at address” even though it was not intentional.
Thank you,
Mary
Mary,
October 29th, 2012 at 8:49 amIf the ball moved, Rule 18-2a would apply and the player must replace it with a one stroke penalty. Whether it was intentional or not, the penalty still applies.
There is a foursome playing. Player one chips it up to 5 feet and leaves ball unmarked; players two and three are already on the green waiting with there balls marked; player four is chipping to green; he hits his chip and the ball is going to hit player one’s ball; player two, who is watching this, picks up player ones ball so player four’s ball won’t hit it. Is player two allowed to do this? If not, what is the penalty for him. Thank you.
November 5th, 2012 at 11:45 amPaul,
November 5th, 2012 at 11:59 amPlayer Two incurs a two stroke penalty under Rule 16-1b for lifting a ball that might influence the movement of the ball in motion.
How does the NCGA/USGA handle players that refuse to post low scores?
I told our Club handicap chairman that I played a round with this individual who shot an 80 and did not post. Five months later I played with this same person who shot an 81 and did not post. He also plays at other courses and shoots similar low scores but does not post there either.
Yes he is know at his home course as a “Sand bagger” but nothing ever gets done to get him to post all his scores. Is there anyway to track his playing and get him to post his scores?
November 6th, 2012 at 6:10 amOur home course has “Native Areas” on every hole. When I emailed NCGA asking for a ruling on a ball coming to rest on a man made bridge crossing the “Native Area” and how a ball is played from being on the bridge I was told that it could be played off of the bridge without penalty or dropped off the bridge with a one stroke penalty.
My major conflicts with this ruling are: 1) We as players are not allowed to enter or play a ball from a marked “Native Area”. Since the bridge is designated by the NCGA to be in the “Native Area” isn’t it impossible to be allowed to play a ball out of the “Native Area”? 2) Isn’t the bridge really a man made immovable object and therefore a free drop? 3) If the bridge through the “Native Area” is really in the “Native Area” then players are not allowed to enter Native Areas” and therefore not allowed on the bridge either since it is designated as part of the “Native Area” as well!
I feel the man made bridge crossing over the “Native Area”, that is marked with red stakes with green caps, is not part of the “Native Area” and should remain to be defined as a man made immovable object and be given free relief! The green capped red stakes go to the corners of the bridge and appear to indicate that the “Native Area” stops at the bridge anyway.
November 6th, 2012 at 6:36 amEd,
November 6th, 2012 at 9:34 amThe USGA recommends that play be permitted from the bridge and the Committee should clarify this matter in the Local Rule adopted for the Environmentally Sensitive Area. Otherwise, the player must proceed under the options prescribed in Rule 26-1.
Ed, thank you for your comment. Here is a link to a column that we ran on this very subject earlier in the year:
November 6th, 2012 at 10:20 amhttp://content.yudu.com/A1vid9/NCGAWinter2012/resources/60.htm
In short, your club should be posting the known low scores plus a low Penalty Score (a score equal to the best of his 20 most recent rounds) for each known score posting violation. This will certainly lower his handicap and, better yet, once he comes to understand that each time he gets caught not posting, the score will be posted for him AND a Penalty Score will be posted on top of it, he will start abiding by the spirit of the Handicap System. Thanks again and good luck, Jim Cowan, Director of Course Rating and Handicapping
I played and won our Club Championship final round today but I’m still unclear on a ruling that happened on #9. This is match play and both players are on the green. We both marked our balls and my opponent was out. He placed his ball to put and while he addressed his ball he claims a fly landed on his ball. He moved his putterto try to make the fly leave but inadvertantly moved his ball two inches. Is this a one stroke penalty or move the ball back to its original position? We were told to play it as no penalty stroke and move the ball back. What is the correct rule? Thank You!
November 7th, 2012 at 5:51 pmDoug,
November 8th, 2012 at 8:40 amCongratulations on you victory! Your opponent incurs no penalty for causing his ball to move in this instance because the fly is a loose impediment. Rule 23 allows a player to move loose impediments and there is no penalty when the ball is accidently moved in the process on the putting green. Aslo see Decision 23-1/5.
I have two questions:
1) Our Women’s Club is joining the NCGA in 2013. The Men’s Club is currently a member of NCGA. Does the Women’ Club need to get a new course rating for the red tees from NCGA?
2) Do you have a method for determining the Most Valuable Player for the year?
November 14th, 2012 at 12:49 pmPeg,
The women’s ratings from the women’s golf association are accurate for both associations. So it is not necessary to have the tees re-rated.
We do not have a recommendation for selecting the most valuable player for the year. This distinction is determined at the club level.
November 14th, 2012 at 3:20 pmHi Greg,
November 20th, 2012 at 5:58 pmDecision 16-1a/6 says that if the dimensions of the cup have been changed materially, a player may fix the cup prior to completing the hole if a committee member is not available. But what is the definition of “materially changed?” How bad does the cup have to be? I look forward to your answer. Thanks.
Pat,
November 21st, 2012 at 9:23 amIf the damage is a ball mark, you may repair it. (Rule 16-1c). However, if the damage is something other than the ball mark, the answer depends on the extent of the damage. A hole that is damaged, but the dimensions of the hole have not been materially changed, must not be touched, and you must continue play of the hole. If the hole is damaged materially, a member of the Committee should be requested to repair the damage. In this case, you may only repair the hole if a Committee member is not readily available. Repairing the hole when not permitted will result in a breach of Rule 16-1a for touching the line of putt. Materially changed means that the hole is no longer 4 1/4 inches in diameter or damaged to the extent that the proper playing of the game is impracticable. There is no hard-and-fast Rule. The proper action depends on the circumstances in each acase and must be left to the determination of the Committee.
Hi Ryan,
I have a question about using a “vector putting” shot suring competition. Just the chart that shows the number of inches to aim up the gravity vector. Is this legal?
Thanks!
November 23rd, 2012 at 9:24 pmHI Ryan,
I frequently go out at “first light” to play. With no one behind me I like to drop an extra ball or two and practice. I know that you arn’t supposed to post a practice round. And the are prohibitions on making a round a “practice round” to avoid having to post a score. My question is this. If I use the first shot every time for my score, can i play another shot as practice and still post my round?
Thanks!
November 23rd, 2012 at 9:57 pmHi Ryan,
November 24th, 2012 at 4:57 pmThank you so much for your answers to both my questions. It is nice to have a place to go to get an authoritaive answer to all the questions that come up.
Thanks again,
Peg
Mike,
November 26th, 2012 at 9:07 amI am not totally familiar with the Vector Putting Chart, but as long as the player does not place the chart on the ground to align his putter, the use of the chart is permitted under the Rules according to Decision 14-3/16.
Mike,
November 26th, 2012 at 9:09 amDecision 5-1a/5 of the USGA’s Handicap Manual prohibits a player from posting scores when playing two balls during the round. The round was not played in accordance with the Rules.
Peg,
November 26th, 2012 at 9:10 amThank you for the nice comments. Happy holidays to you and your family!
On a windy day a player addresses his ball through the green and as he is about half way down with his swing, the ball is moved slightly by a wind propelled twig. The player completes his swing and misses the ball. I assume the stroke counts; does he play the next shot from the new spot or does he replace the ball and try again? Does anything change if the player had clearly swung over the top of the ball as he changed his mind about making a stroke because of the distraction?
November 29th, 2012 at 10:18 amI have studied Rule 26 1 c but it never seems to address this query.
Golfer A tees off with a hook shot. The hole is par 4, sharp dog-leg right.
The ball flies over a stream (water hazard) on left. It strikes a rock and bounces and runs down towards the same creek which still borders the dog-leg as it now runs left towards the green. Observers see the ball enter the stream (water hazard) but now 100 yards closer to the green than when it first crossed the stream after being hit.
The ball can be seen within the water and rescued with a scoop.
Rule 26 1 c appears to say that golfer A can retrieve and play the ball from either side of the water hazard provided it is no nearer the pin. Golfer A elects to take his drop back on the fairway at a spot now only 100 yards from the green.
Is this correct under the rules?
Hope you can assist.
Thanks
November 29th, 2012 at 7:21 pmFred Sparrow
Ed,
November 30th, 2012 at 9:42 amThe exception to Rule 18-2b applies. The player is not deemed to have caused the ball to move. The stroke does not count if he purposly missed striking the ball. The ball must be replaced, without penalty. See Decision 18-2b/11 for additional clarification.
Fred,
November 30th, 2012 at 9:44 amThe player needs to establish where the ball last crossed the margin of the hazard line. It is hard to tell by your description if the ball last crossed near the putting green or if it entered at another point and came to rest near the putting green. That point will be used as the reference point for determining his options under Rule 26-1c.
Scenario, my ball is off the green and my opponent’s ball is in the trap in front of the green. I hit my shot 3′ from the pin. Am I allowed to mark my ball before my opponent hits his shot out of the bunker?
December 2nd, 2012 at 11:56 amGlen,
December 2nd, 2012 at 1:17 pmRule 22-1 permits you to have any ball lifted that you feel will assist another player. Additionally, you are always allowed to mark and lift your ball when it lies on the green. If your opponent plays prior to giving you the opportunity to mark it under Rule 22-1. They lose the hole.
Was 3 yards from green the grass was short so decided to putt.
December 4th, 2012 at 8:57 amOpponents ball was 1 yard in front of me. I asked him to mark his ball.
His reply was he was not allowed to mark ball on the fairway.
As I was putting was he allowed to mark ball as it was in my line of putt?
T.,
December 4th, 2012 at 9:18 amRule 22-1 permits a player to have a ball marked anywhere on the course that may interfere with his play. The player must mark and lift the ball if you have requested him to do so. If he fails to honor your request he is disqualified in stroke play or loses the hole in match play.
On the green I start to put but the ball starts to roll. I take my backswing anyway…can’t stop and hit the ball while it is moving. I get a stroke penalty and have to replace the ball. Do I count the stroke I took also?
December 12th, 2012 at 9:44 pmA rules discussion while playing the other day: A player removes a small branch near his ball and the ball moves. We agree there is a one stroke penalty and the ball must be replaced or it becomes a two stroke penalty. What about the twig? We thought it didn’t need to be replaced, but in looking in the rule book we couldn’t find an answer. Where is it stated that the twig doesn’t need to be replaced (or maybe the other way around)?
December 13th, 2012 at 8:28 amPat,
December 13th, 2012 at 9:39 amThe stroke doesn’s count because your intent to strike the ball ceased during the stroke. By your description, it seems that the ball was moved by the club due to the movement of the ball and not the movement of the club. See the definition of a stroke and also Decision 18-2b/12.
Ed,
December 13th, 2012 at 10:39 amA player may always remove loose impediments before replacing the ball. However, if the player has lifted his ball under a Rule that requires him to replace it such as Rule 5-3 (ball unfit), Rule 12-2 (identifying ball) and Rule 22 (ball assisting or interfering with play)he is not entitled to move loose impediments effecting his lie. See Decision 23-1/7 & 8.
My ball lies on top of a pile of redwood leaves. I hit it back on the fairway, but also hit a ball that was hidden by the leaves. Do I get a penalty?
December 18th, 2012 at 5:25 pmThanks–Pat
Pat,
December 18th, 2012 at 5:50 pmDecision 15/2 states that there is no penalty for striking a concealed ball when playing a stroke at your ball.
A rule 25 decision in which a ball is both in casual water and gur tells us that if the player wants to take relief, he will need to do one step at a time: first from causal water or gur and then see where the ball ends up and continue the process if necessary. Does the same procedure apply to a ball that is located such that the player has interference from two obstructions (for example a sprinkler control box and a cart path)? Is it correct to say that even though the player could get relief from both, he will first take relief from one and then see where the ball is and then maybe get relief from the second one?
December 19th, 2012 at 9:47 amEd,
December 19th, 2012 at 9:51 amYes, it must be a two step process. Decision 1-4/8 also supports this procedure.
Is a golfer entitled to relief when his approach shot rolls up to and just short of the green into an existing pitch mark. The ball appearred to be imbedded but clearly was seen to roll into the pitch mark that is located off the green and could not have imbedded itself since it landed well short of its final location.
December 19th, 2012 at 12:50 pmDave,
December 19th, 2012 at 12:59 pmUnfortunately, the player is not entitled to relief. A player is only entitled to relief under Rule 25-2 when his ball is embedded in a pitch-mark created by the last stroke he made. Also see Decision 25-2/3 for further clarification.
When playing a team game or in this case a “scramble” are team mates allowed to stand on the line of putt either in front or behind?
December 19th, 2012 at 2:59 pmDave,
December 19th, 2012 at 3:47 pmRule 14-2 prohibits a player’s partner or either of their caddies from standing on an extension of the line of play behind the ball. It is okay to stand on the otherside othe hole as the line of play ends at the hole.
Scrambles are not a recognized form of golf. So the tournament committee in charge of the event must decide what rules they wish to play by.
The fairway rises up from the tee box then flattens out and cannot be seen from the tee box. To the right of the fairway is a cart path, then rough, then further down, a lateral hazard. The Rules Committee would like to move the hazard stakes up to the cart path and rule that if not sure whether a ball stayed in the fairway or went into the hazard, a provisional ball be hit. I know that if the ball is found in the hazard, it must be abandoned. Can this Rule be waived for pace of play? Otherwise, the player would have to go look for the ball, then if not found, go back to the tee box and hit a second ball. Alternately, we could put a drop zone to the left of the cart path. What can and cannot we do?
December 21st, 2012 at 5:56 pmThere is a protective screen behind the #1 green to protect from tee shots from the 9th hole. When playing #1 can there be a local rule granting line of site relief from the screen or should a drop area be established? How about similar relief when playing #9?
December 26th, 2012 at 10:18 pmSteve,
It sounds like it would be acceptable to move the hazard line up to the cart path. I am not sure if it is necessary, for the situation you have described, to adopt the Local Rule as prescribed in Appendix I for a ball that may be lost in a water hazard. It seems that the ball is either in the hazard or in the fairway and that it cannot be lost elsewhere. The Local Rule allows the player to play the ball from the hazard but does not allow the player to take relief from the hazard under the options of Rule 26-1 if the ball is found or determined to be in the hazard.
1. Water Hazards; Ball Played Provisionally Under Rule 26-1
December 27th, 2012 at 11:11 amIf a water hazard (including a lateral water hazard) is of such size and shape and/or located in such a position that:
(i) it would be impracticable to determine whether the ball is in the hazard or to do so would unduly delay play, and
(ii) if the original ball is not found, it is known or virtually certain that it is in the water hazard,
the Committee may introduce a Local Rule permitting the play of a ball provisionally under Rule 26-1. The ball is played provisionally under any of the applicable options under Rule 26-1 or any applicable Local Rule. In such a case, if a ball is played provisionally and the original ball is in a water hazard, the player may play the original ball as it lies or continue with the ball played provisionally, but he may not proceed under Rule 26-1 with regard to the original ball.
In these circumstances, the following Local Rule is recommended:
“If there is doubt whether a ball is in or is lost in the water hazard (specify location), the player may play another ball provisionally under any of the applicable options in Rule 26-1.
If the original ball is found outside the water hazard, the player must continue play with it.
If the original ball is found in the water hazard, the player may either play the original ball as it lies or continue with the ball played provisionally under Rule 26-1.
If the original ball is not found or identified within the five-minute search period, the player must continue with the ball played provisionally.
PENALTY FOR BREACH OF LOCAL RULE:
Match play – Loss of hole; Stroke play – Two strokes.”
Yes, a Committee may establish relief for line of site for a protective fence.
Decision 33-8/18 If a wire fence is erected to protect players on the tee of one hole from errant shots played at another hole, and it is relatively close to the line of play of the other hole, it would be permissible to make a Local Rule allowing a player whose ball is in such a position that the fence intervenes on his line of play to drop the ball, without penalty, not nearer the hole in a specified dropping zone.
December 27th, 2012 at 11:30 amHi Ryan,
January 9th, 2013 at 10:27 amIn regards to the protective fence question above, without my knowing the location of the fences involved, might this be an example where Note 3 under Rule 24-2 could be used to give the players the relief needed?
Dan,
January 9th, 2013 at 11:11 amThe Note to Rule 24-2 would be helpful to a player if his ball was close enough to the fence to have interference as described in the Rule and the Committee would like to keep the player on the same side of the fence as the players line of play. However, I don’t see how this might assist him in gaining reilief for interference on his line of play. I think in very rare circumstances would a Committee want to adopt the Local Rule to Note 3 and the Local Rule under 33-8/18 in regards to the same obstruction.
Was playing today and drove my ball to about a foot behind the ball of another in our 4some. Had him mark it and played my second shot with no problem. Question is if i had been a few inches behind him and had him mark I could easily taken a divot through his mark. Would he have been required to place his ball in the divot? If so there wouldn’t be a problem with me marking and letting him hit first (and hope he doesn’t hit it fat) would there?
January 9th, 2013 at 8:47 pmWith regards to taking a drop, does the phrase “come to rest no closer to the hole” mean the the ball can not come to rest closer to the hole than the point it was resting with the need for a drop happened or that it can’t hit and move forward an inch or two but still be behind the point at which it was resting when the need for a drop happened?
January 9th, 2013 at 8:51 pmBy the way Ryan, I contacted the USGA about the vector green reading system and their charts. Carte Rich, the equipment standards manager told me that it has been reviewed by the USGA and is approved for use.
January 9th, 2013 at 8:59 pmMike,
January 10th, 2013 at 8:53 amRule 20-3b states that the fellow-competitor would place his ball in the most similar lie to the original lie that is not more thatn one club-length from the orginal lie, not nearer the hole and not in a hazard. In stroke play, he may play first without penalty.
Mike,
When dropping a ball under the Rules, Rule 20-2c states that the ball must be redropped if it rolls and comes to rest nearer than:
(a) original position or estimated position (see Rule 20-2b) unless otherwise permitted by the Rules.
Meaning that your point of reference is where the ball was resting prior to being picked up.
January 10th, 2013 at 9:07 amMike,
January 10th, 2013 at 9:10 amThank you for the information about the vector green reading system.
Please clear up a procedure question: I’m looking for my ball in the rough or even in sand, and I find a ball, but I’m still not sure it’s my ball. Do I now have to mark, announce and so forth before I lift it to id it? And is it the same through the green as in sand. In sand, I know I have to recreate the lie so is marking to id the ball the same on any part of the course?
January 11th, 2013 at 1:08 pmEd,
January 11th, 2013 at 1:56 pmRule 12-2 describes the procedure that you must follow for identifying a ball. Yes, the procedure is the same in all areas of the course.
Members within our club are debating what’s allowed relative to tending the pin when playing from off the green. Many feel that the player has the choice of pulling the pin or leaving it in but must choose BEFORE hitting the shot. But, based upon our reading of Rule 17, it seems that a player could have the pin attended and that the pin could be pulled after the ball was struck
Please provide a ruling on this.
January 14th, 2013 at 4:33 pmJeff,
January 14th, 2013 at 4:52 pmYou have found the correct Rule. Rule 17 permits the player to have the flagstick attended at any time. If the player elects to have the flagstick attended he would be required to make the request prior to playing the stroke. Once the ball is in motion the attended flagstick may be removed. If the flagstick is not attended prior to the stroke, the flagstick may not be removed.
Here we are looking for my ball in the woods. Another player who is helping look who’s 30 yards away calls out that he has found a ball. I tell him to check to see if has my mark on it. Properly by the rules does he have to mark the ball before he picks it up to see if it’s mine?
January 17th, 2013 at 9:52 amRick,
January 17th, 2013 at 11:04 amNo, the other player is an outside agency and Rule 18-1 applies. There is no penalty to anyone and the ball must be replaced.
I recently bought a new driver that I like very much except that the marking on top of the club used for alignment purposes was hard for me to see so I drew a very clear line with an indelible marker that I can easily see. Is there any rules problem with adding such a line? (I know it’s ok to add an alignment line on the ball.) Secondly, assuming it is ok to draw such a line before the round begins would there be a rules problem if I drew such a line during a round?
January 20th, 2013 at 9:27 amAre you allowed to use one of your clubs as an aiming alignment on the ground if you pick it up before the shot in the middle of a round?
January 22nd, 2013 at 7:05 amTom,
January 22nd, 2013 at 8:59 amYes, you may put an alignment mark on your driver prior to the round per Decision 4-1/5. You may refresh a mark that was already on the driver, but you may not put a new mark on the driver during the round (per Carter Rich of the USGA).
Wayne,
January 22nd, 2013 at 9:02 amYes, Decision 8-2a/1 permits a player to align his feet with the club prior to the stroke. The club must be removed before the stroke is made.
A ball hit from a tee strikes a power line. It is not listed in the local rules that any ball striking and overhead power line must be replayed. Is there a general rule that covers this? Or must it be referred to in the course’s local rules?
January 24th, 2013 at 10:07 pmKevin,
January 25th, 2013 at 11:15 amWithout the Local Rule in effect, the ball would be played as it lies. The overhead power line is an outside agency and Rule 19-1 applies.
At a local course, I was recently playing a par 3 from an elevated tee. Running down the hill to the right of the tee box was a line of bushes with OB stakes along the line. Behind the bushes was an open water drainage culvert. Toward the bottom of the hill another water culvert, deliniated by red stakes, entered the first culvert from 90 degrees right. From the point the two culverts join the original culvert becomes a red staked hazard and proceeds down the hill, still behind the line of bushes.
I proceeded to scuff my tee shot which rolled down the hill and crossed the OB markers into the bushes. I hit a provisional ball and walked down to find that my ball had rolled through the bushes, into the OBed culvert and then proceeded to roll down the hill into and coming to rest in the red staked culvert.
My question: in this case, should I have applied the OB rule, or the lateral hazard rule? Also, if it is the latter, where and how should I have dropped the ball, assuming I did not want to play the provisional ball.
January 26th, 2013 at 6:04 amCharles,
January 26th, 2013 at 10:40 amI think, by your description, your ball came to rest in a lateral water hazard that was located in bounds. If that is the case, then your provisional ball must be abandoned and you must proceed with your options under Rule 26-1 (water hazards). See Decision 26-1/8 for additional clarification.
My club recently implemented a temporary local rule – preferred lies through the green. My playing partner’s ball finished in the branch of a low shrub to the side of the fairway, but within the bounds of the course. The ball was suspended above the ground, held up by the branch. My partner contended his ball was ‘through the green’ and he could therefore prefer his lie, so that his next shot was played off the ground, rather than in the shrub. Was he correct?
January 27th, 2013 at 5:44 pmA foursome is putting on the green (stroke play) and someone in the foursome behind hits a ball onto the green. If someone in the foursome on the green putts their ball and hits the “at rest” ball (from the foursome behind) is it a penalty? What if the ball from the foursome behind is still moving? And is it okay for someone on the green to mark the ball from the foursome behind?
January 27th, 2013 at 6:12 pmThe green of fifth hole at my course was largely under water, our balls were dry but we still had to put through water as the hole was covered with about 1/2 inch of water. This made for interesting putting. The four ball ahead of us took the back of a rake and swept a dry line for their puts, surely this is not allowed.
January 28th, 2013 at 4:45 amLinda,
January 28th, 2013 at 11:33 amSee Decision 19-5/2. The player would be penalized for a violation 19-5a for striking a ball at rest on the putting green. If the ball was in motion when the stroke was made on the putting green, Rule 19-5b also applies, and the stroke is cancelled and replayed.
Ernst,
January 28th, 2013 at 11:40 amNo, the player are not permitted to remove casual water on their line of putts or line of play, unless authorized by the Committee. See Decision 16-1a/1, 13-2/34 and 33/1 for additional clarification.
Are there any instances where a ball would be an “outside agency”?
January 28th, 2013 at 11:55 amLinda,
January 28th, 2013 at 1:01 pmEvery ball other than the side’s golf balls are considered outside agencies in stroke play. In match play, the balls of the opponent’s side are not outside agencies.
Richard,
January 28th, 2013 at 1:08 pmThe Local Rule that your club has adopted is not authorized under the Rules of Golf. The Local Rule for “Preferred Lies” is for closely mown areas (or a more restricted area). Your question specifically demonstrates why this Local Rule is invalid. The Rules of Golf do not have an answer. If it helps, the actual Local Rule states that “A ball lying on a closely mown area through the green…”, meaning that the ball has to lie on the surface of the ground to be entitled to use the Local Rule as prescribed in Appendix I.
During a casual round my ball came to rest on a bridge crossing a lateral water hazard. I was able to play the ball off the bridge but the situation got me to thinking. I believe the ball should be treated as in the hazard and the 5 options were all that were available. Was I entitled to any relief from the bridge and if so, where and how?
January 30th, 2013 at 10:24 amDennis,
January 30th, 2013 at 10:33 amThe bridge is an immovable obstruction by definition. However, when your ball lies inside a water hazard you are not entitled to free relief (Rule 24-2). You can either play the ball as it lies or proceed under the options available to you under Rule 26.
Please settle an issue our group has. When we get to a course we look up our handicap based on current indexes. Some of us play from blue, some from white. After we receive our handicap, our rule is for the men playing from white to adjust by the difference in the slope between blue and white, usually about 2 strokes. Is this appropriate or are the handicaps already adjusted based on indexes???
January 30th, 2013 at 9:24 pmJohn Carter, thank you for your comment. Whichever set of golfers is playing the tees with the higher COURSE RATING (not Slope Rating) receives additional strokes equal to the difference in the ratings (.5 is rounded up). . . or, those playing the lesser tees can subtract the difference in the Course Ratings from their Course Handicaps. Either way, you have leveled the playing field. Thanks again, Jim Cowan, Director of Course Rating and Handicapping
January 31st, 2013 at 10:05 amThere is a water hazard where the club has established a local rule providing an optional drop area. May a player use the drop area if the players ball last crossed the margin of the hazard at a point further from the hole than the drop area?
February 2nd, 2013 at 7:52 pmI am the new rules person for our club. Could you tell me if there is a short cut for learning whether a rules violation is worth one or two penalty strokes? Is there any rhyme or reason for stroke penalties given? Isn’t it near impossible to remember which rules are one or two strokes? Thank you so much.
February 3rd, 2013 at 7:39 pmAt the start of the process of addressing a putt (after calculating a putting line without placing anything on the green), a player routinely places his putter with the toe pointing through the ball at the line, then takes his stance with his feet perpendicular to the putter face, turns his putter face parallel to his feet (club face now pointing through the ball at the line of putting), and then strikes the ball. Nothing is verbalized to his caddy during the process. Is this placing something on the green to point to the line of putting in violation of 8b or merely a way of addressing the ball with a putter similar to the exempt (but hazardous) way of addressing a ball by starting with the club head touching the ground in the putting line in front of the ball?
February 4th, 2013 at 12:33 amGeorge,
February 4th, 2013 at 9:45 amYes, a player may use a drop zone that is located closer to the hole than where the ball last crossed the margin of the hazard. However, Decision 33-8/2 does not allow the Committee to adopt the use of a dropping zone on the green-side of a water hazard. It is recomended that the drop zone not be located nearer the hole than where the ball could possibly cross the margin of a water hazard. See Appendix I 8. for additional clarification on Dropping Zones.
Debby,
There are 17 one stroke penalties that apply in both match play and stroke play. You probably know most of them.
There are two exceptions: Rule 18-3b only applies in match play and Rule 6-7 (conditions of competition) applies only in stroke play.
If you memorize these, then you know that everything else must be a loss of hole in match play, two strokes in stroke play or Disqualification.
This tip and many more are available to you at one of the NCGA’s Rules of Golf Seminars located throughout Northern California. See the following link for additional information: http://www.ncga.org/wp-content/uploads/2013-NCGA-Member-Brochure.pdf
ONE STROKE PENALTIES IN BOTH MATCH PLAY AND STROKE PLAY:
February 4th, 2013 at 10:03 am5-3 Ball Unfit for Play (Procedure)
6-8c Lifting Ball When Play Discontinued (Procedure)
12-2 Identifying Ball (Procedure or Unnecessary Cleaning)
14-4 Striking Ball More Than Once
16-2 Ball Overhanging Hole
18-2a Ball at Rest Moved By Player (General)
18-2b Ball at Rest Moved By Player (After Address)
19-2 Ball Deflected by Player, Partner, Caddie or Equipment
20-1 Lifting and Marking (Procedure)
20-2a Dropping (Procedure – By Whom and How)
20-3a Ball Placed or Replaced by Wrong Person and Not Corrected
21 Cleaning Ball (When Not Permitted)
24-2b Interference by Immovable Obstruction (Relief Outside Bunker)
25-1b Ball in Abnormal Ground (Relief Outside Bunker)
26 Ball in Water Hazard (Relief Outside Water Hazard)
27 Ball Lost or Out of Bounds
28 Ball Unplayable
Brian,
February 4th, 2013 at 10:43 amHe is not in violation of Rule 8-2b for placing the club behind the ball in this manner. The USGA’s clarification on addressing the ball states that the player has addressed the ball when he has placed the club behind the ball in a position where it would be customary for a player to ground the club prior to making a particular stroke.
Regarding your recent “loose impediments” article in the NCGA magazine. What happens if I swing and miss my teed ball, blame it on a loose impediment and move it and/or move the impediment and the ball moves? Now is there a penalty?
February 4th, 2013 at 2:47 pmHi there
February 4th, 2013 at 10:52 pmI have a question about a rule that has been causing a few arguments at our club, regarding lateral hazards and where to drop the ball – we all know the rule refers to the place where the ball last crossed the line of the hazard, but how accurately must this be determined? There is a lateral hazard at our first hole at De Zalze Golf Club in Stellenbosch, SA, but the line is obscured by a big tree and one cannot see from the tee exactly where this line has been crossed.
Kind regards, Paul.
Tom,
February 5th, 2013 at 10:12 amIf you swing and miss at a ball on the teeing ground, the ball is in play. If you then move the loose impediment and it causes your ball to move, it is a one stroke penalty and the ball must be replaced. See Rule 23 for additional clarification.
Paul,
February 5th, 2013 at 10:20 amWhen determining the point where the ball last crossed the margin of the hazard we are always estimating. Many times it is difficult to get an exact location where the ball last crossed the margin of a water hazard, but we must make our best effort to make sure we determine the location as best we can. Decision 26-1/16 and 17 are good examples of when the player and fellow-competitor have determined, by estimating, the point where the ball last crossed the margin. After the player has dropped and played the ball, even if it was from the wrong place, there is no penalty.
I have heard the term 1st cut to mean diffrent areas of the golf course. Is there NCGA specific definition for this term?
February 5th, 2013 at 12:58 pmPhil,
February 5th, 2013 at 2:18 pmThe first cut is not a defined term in the Rules of Golf. It is my opinion that the first cut would be the shortest cut of rough on a course that uses a graduated rough system.
We are in dispute on the correct ruling here:
February 5th, 2013 at 3:32 pmPlayer A (unbeknownst to him or anyone n the group) makes a hole-in-one. No one thinks to look in the cup. They believe the ball is lost. Player A goes back to the tee box and re-tees. Only afterward does he discovery his original ball is in the cup. Some are arguing that once the new ball is hit it is “in play” and the ace does not count. He has already hit his 3rd shot. Others argue that once the ball is in the cup (regardless of whether the Player is aware of it or not) the hold is over and the fact that another ball was hit is irrelevant. A smaller group argues that the penalty here may involve improper hitting of a practice shot after play of the hole.
What is the rule?
Bill,
Decision 1-1/2 Player Unaware He has Holed Out Puts Another Ball into Play
February 5th, 2013 at 3:36 pmQ. A player, unable to find his ball, puts another ball into play. He then discovers that his original ball is in the hole. What is the ruling?
A. The score with the original ball counts. The play of the hole was completed when the player holed that ball.
A left handed golfers ball crossed a cart path, ending up on the right side of the path and near a hazard. He could have stood in the hazard and addressed the ball in a normal fashion. He elected to address the ball as a right hander would, using the back of his club as a contact point. This allowed him to put a foot on the cartpath, entitling him to relief on the left side of the path and into the fairway. Ia tis a legal manuever or could it be a stance unfairly taken?
February 8th, 2013 at 9:26 pmKenneth,
According to your description, the player would be using an unnecessarily abnormal stance to play the ball for the purposes of getting relief from the cart path. He would not be entitled to relief. The Exception to Rule 24-2 would apply.
Exception: A player may not take relief under this Rule if (a) interference by anything other than an immovable obstruction makes the stroke clearly impracticable or (b) interference by an immovable obstruction would occur only through use of a clearly unreasonable stroke or an unnecessarily abnormal stance, swing or direction of play.
February 9th, 2013 at 9:10 amRule 15-3 says the proper owner of a ball that was played wrongly by another player “…must place…” another ball. Decisions 15-3b/1 and 20-7c/4 also use the word “must.” Does the player whose ball has been played by someone else always get to place the ball? If the spot where the ball in question was played from is not accurately known, is the ball still placed or is it then dropped?
February 12th, 2013 at 5:37 pmTom,
February 12th, 2013 at 5:47 pmReplacing the ball means getting the ball back in play on a spot or in a location. Therefore, sometimes you place it and sometimes you drop it. Through the green, if the player does not know the spot or the lie, he will be required to proceed under Rule 20-3c and be dropping the ball.
Settle a argument that has been going on between me and the golf pro at River Lakes Golf. The pro calims it is a two stroke penalty for standing behind your competitor to get the line for your similar put? Is any difference for match or stroke play? I know it is not a good practice to do this, but has competitors on edge even when his put is no relation to the put we are about to take, we always have to be careful where we are standing so he does not accuse us of getting an advantage. I think it is just a breech of ethics. We are playing for big bucks. fifty cents a hole.
February 18th, 2013 at 7:58 amGreg,
February 18th, 2013 at 10:13 amThere is no penalty for a player to stand behind the line of play of his fellow-competitor while the stroke is being made. It is not proper etiquette to do so, but there is no penalty. If asked to move, the player should move. Otherwise, the Committee may exercise their rights under Rule 33-7 and disqualify the player. Rule 14-2 specifically prohibits a player’s partner or caddie from standing on the extension of the line of play behind the ball while the stroke is being made.
My ball is in a bunker and on my attempt to get it out I line drive a shot that buries in an unplayable lie underneath the lip of the same bunker. Is there any rule that allows me to get out of the bunker with a one stroke penalty or does Rule 28 keep me in the bunker as my previous shot was in the bunker?
February 20th, 2013 at 9:34 amWhat is the rule regarding hitting the wrong ball from s sand trap. Has this changed recently?
February 20th, 2013 at 10:17 amTom,
February 20th, 2013 at 10:24 amThere is nothing in the Rules of Golf that will allow you to get out of the bunker without making a stroke.
Phil,
February 20th, 2013 at 10:28 amPrior to 2008, there was no penalty for playing a wrong ball from a hazard (water hazards or bunkers). See Rule 15-3 for further clarification of the current Rule regarding playing a wrong ball from a bunker.
Hi, what would the rule be if I hit a tee shot to a blind landing area (i can’t see the ball land) and the landing area is near out of bounds. I decide to hit a provisional ball and that ball goes to the same blind landing area where I can’t see the ball land. At this point I have decided to play the hole and walk up to both balls and one ball is out of bounds and one ball is in bounds, however, both balls are the same exact model with the same number and there is no distinct ball mark on either ball. What would be the ensuing ruling?
February 20th, 2013 at 6:21 pmJames,
February 20th, 2013 at 8:19 pmDecision 27/11 states that the ball found in bounds is presumed to be the provisional ball.
What is the ruling if a teed ball passes through an “out of bounds” and
February 22nd, 2013 at 9:02 amreturns to “in bounds” (such as a private property corner lot)?
Thanks for your help and quick response.
Ed C.
Ed,
February 22nd, 2013 at 6:39 pmThe Rules deal with where the ball lies not where it flies. Since the ball lies on the course it is in bounds.
I was watching golf on tv this weekend and saw a player take a penalty drop from a lateral water hazard. He was dropping on a cart path which I know is ok as long as it is within the 2 club lengths and not nearer the hole. He dropped once and then dropped again, hard to tell why on tv. In fact, the announcer thought the first drop on the cart path was a good drop and the ball was in play; however the player redropped and after the ball rolled back into the hazard placed the ball on the cart path and then took relief from the cart path. My question is what penalty would the player have incurred if the first drop was proper and he should not have redropped? He didn’t play from this wrong position; rather he may have taken relief from a wrong spot on the cart path. Does that still get him a 2 stroke wrong place penalty?
March 9th, 2013 at 6:08 pmTom,
March 11th, 2013 at 8:01 amIf the player picks up his ball in play it is a one stroke penalty under Rule 18-2a and he his required to replace it. If he does not replace it the penalty increases to two strokes for playing from a wrong place. See the penalty statement under Rule 18-2 for additional clarification.
Pace of play is a real issue in golf… recently we were completing the 9th hole at our course and saw three carts (6 players) pull up to the 10th tee area. The first twosome jumped out of the cart and went to the tee area. I asked them if we had been following them and they responded that they had left the course and had lunch in the restaurant located at the course. The other group, foursome said they had done the same thing. I told them that I believed we had the “right of way” and after some discussion… they were upset and appeared to have had a little to much to drink during their lunch. We went ahead and teed off. The hole is downhill and had a blind landing area. After we reached our ball, a ball passed over our heads as the twosome hit into us.
March 13th, 2013 at 11:32 amIs there any rule in golf about leaving the course and returning as far as order of play is concerned or is it simple golf etiquette?
Bob,
Under the Rules of Golf, when a player suspends play (stops and has lunch) without the Committee’s permission. They are disqualified under Rule 6-8.
It is customary, under etiquette, that a group that stops during the turn, that the preceding group that has not stopped has the priority on the 10th tee.
From the etiquette section of the Rules of Golf:
Pace Of Play
Play At Good Pace And Keep Up
Players should play at a good pace. The Committee may establish pace of play guidelines that all players should follow.
It is a group’s responsibility to keep up with the group in front. If it loses a clear hole and it is delaying the group behind, it should invite the group behind to play through, irrespective of the number of players in that group. Where a group has not lost a clear hole, but it is apparent that the group behind can play faster, it should invite the faster moving group to play through.
March 13th, 2013 at 11:49 amI hit a tee shot that found the trees on the left portion of the fairway.My foursome hit there shots then helped me look for the ball. After 5 minutes I abandoned the ball. On the gree one of the players discovered that he hit my ball. I went back to where my ball and finished the hole. My foursome said that I had to take a two stroke penalty for abandoning the ball. What say you
March 15th, 2013 at 5:31 pmLarry,
When you did not find you ball after 5 minutes, it was lost (see definition of lost ball). You were required to return to the tee and would be playing your third stroke. When you dropped a ball at the spot from where your fellow-competitor had played your ball, you were playing from a wrong place (Rule 20-7). Since this was a serious breach of playing from a wrong place and you did not correct it before starting play of the next hole you are disqualified.
The fellow-competitor that played your ball incurred a two stroke under Rule 15-3 and was required to correct the mistake by finding and playing his ball.
March 16th, 2013 at 9:12 pmI hit my third shot on a par 5 onto the green. I pulled two pennys from my pocket I mark the ball with one of the pennys (heads up) and put the ball and extra penny in pocket. I then walk some 30 feet to tend the pin for a fellow compertior. Upon arriving back to my ball I notice Two Pennys some 12 inches apart. At first, I thought someone forgot to pick up their ball mark but quickly reaching in my pocket I realized that the extra penny I had never went into my pocket but back on the green. Being only 12 inches apart I did not honestly know which penny was the right ball mark (they were both heads) so do I go back to were I hit my third shot and take a penatly stroke?
March 17th, 2013 at 4:53 pmMark,
March 17th, 2013 at 5:29 pmThis situation does not seem to be covered in the Rules of Golf. I recall that this situation was discussed at a USGA/PGA Rules of Golf Workshop. From what I remember, In equity, you should place you ball behind the penny that is furthest from the hole, without penalty.
Are range finders/GPS devices legal in NCGA tournaments?
March 17th, 2013 at 6:23 pmDon,
Yes, The NCGA has adopted the Local Rule permitting the use of Electronic Distance Measuring Devices.
GLOBAL POSITIONING SYSTEMS AND HAND HELD RANGE FINDERS.
Distance-Measuring Devices: In NCGA qualifiers and championships, a player may obtain distance information by using a device that measures distance only. However, if, during a stipulated round, a player uses a device that is designed to gauge or measure other
conditions that might affect his play (e.g. compass, gradient, wind-speed, temperature, etc), the player is in
breach of Rule 14-3, for which the penalty is disqualification, regardless of whether any such additional functions
are actually used.
Additional information regarding NCGA Regulations and Policies can be found at the following link: http://www.ncga.org/rules-competitions/rules-regulations-policies/
March 17th, 2013 at 8:17 pmGood memory Ryan regarding Mark’s question above,
Here’s a question/answer from a long ago “Stump…”
The following incident occurred in a friendly game so it was resolved without knowing the rules. How would it be resolved in a tournament situation? Player A and B both mark their balls on the green, then wait for the following group to play up. When A and B return to putt their balls they realize they have both used dimes as a ball maker and they are not sure whose dimes is whose, whose ball is whose. Now what?
Ed, Good question! There is no decision or rule that contemplates this situation. I actually called the USGA for their interpretation. In equity, the players will use the ball marker that is furthest from the hole as their reference and both be putting from there, without penalty.
March 18th, 2013 at 9:12 amOur course stays wet for several months. Balls are often not found in the fairway. Sometimes there is casual water; sometimes it’s muddy where the ball plugs and it doesn’t qualify as casual water. Is the ball lost? Should we have a local rule? We play a six inch improvement during these wet times. Does that mean a lost ball in the fairway is not lost and a player can place a ball at the spot determined to be where the ball was lost? Thanks.
March 22nd, 2013 at 7:30 amPat,
March 22nd, 2013 at 8:29 amIf the ball is lost in casual water, Rule 25-1c applies. If the area where the ball has disapeared is not marked as ground under repair or declared so by the Committee, the ball is lost and Rule 27-1 (stroke and distance) applies. Soft, mushy earth is not casual water (see Decision 25/1). Nothing in the Rules allow a player to drop or place a ball at a point where they think it may be lost, unless operating under a Rule (ie, 24,25 & 26). Also see the definition of Lost Ball for further clarification.
A situation exists on our course where the cart path is located about 2 feet from the out of bounds. When the closest relief from the path is on the O.B. side of the path, it is impossible get complete relief from the path without droping the ball out of bounds. What is the proper procedure?
March 22nd, 2013 at 9:20 pmRon,
March 23rd, 2013 at 9:22 pmThe nearest point of relief cannot be out of bounds. The player must find a place on the course where he no longer has interference from the path that is no nearer the hole. See the definition of nearest point of relief and Decisions 24-2b/1, 24-2b/3.7 and 24-2b/6 for further clarification.
Ball resting against flagstick in cylinder but not holed. Can the flagstick be moved by use of a golf club, umbrella or anything other than by hand in order to get ball to drop to bottom? Saw tour pro in Arnie’s tourney push flagstick away with his putter to allow ball to drop after chipping it in from off the green.
March 25th, 2013 at 12:42 pmDaniel,
March 25th, 2013 at 1:35 pmRule 17-4 allows the player or anyone authorized by the player to move or remove the flagstick and if the ball falls into the hole the player is deemed to have holed out with his previous stroke. The Rule does not prohibit a player from using his putter to move the flagstick.
Have a rules question. I did this the other day at Deer Ridge prepping for the Tourney for Thursday.
March 26th, 2013 at 11:41 amHit a ball into a hazard (draining ditch with no water) and it has a little chain link fence 2′ high to block debris from going down the stream and it is running perpendicular to the green not parallel and the ball rolls up against it so I can not hit it towards the green only sideways, what is the ruling? The lie was fine so I could hit it sideways and not take a stroke, but was wondering if I can get relief without penalty with one club drop?
Unfortunately, I did not look at the card or local ruling (not smart enough to do that!!)
There was no cement and it was marked with a red stake and it was definitely not a boundry fence.
So since it was a hazard I thought no relief, but since it was a man made object and not a boundry fence I was totally unclear
I know that sand on a green is a loose impediment. However, on a newly sanded green, can a player smooth the sand in the area between the ball and the cup?
March 26th, 2013 at 9:31 pmA condition exists on our course where a rock lined drain lies adjacent to the cart path. In taking relief from the drain, as an immovable obstruction, the player is required to stand on the cart path. Can a player take relief from the cart path at the same time?
March 26th, 2013 at 10:45 pmGeorge,
March 27th, 2013 at 8:34 amSand is a loose impediment on the putting green and the player can move as much sand on his line of putt that he wishes as long as he doesn’t press anything down. See Rule 23 for additional clarification.
Alan,
March 27th, 2013 at 8:40 amThese two conditions are considered seperate obstructions unless the Committee has adopted a Local Rule deeming them to be all one obstruction. The player would be required to take releif from one and then the other unless otherwise directed by the Committee. If the players nearest point of relief from either obstruction has the player bouncing back and forth between both obstructions, See Decision 1-4/8.5.
Tye,
If your ball was in the water hazard you were not entitled to relief from the fence. Rule 24-2 states that “exept when the ball lies in a water hazard…
The Committee may have even deemed the fence to be an integral part of the course by Local Rule.
If your ball did not lie in the hazard, you would be entitled to relief as prescribed in Rule 24-2.
March 27th, 2013 at 10:04 amOne hole at our course has power lines high above the fairway about 50 yards from the tee. I’ve never seen a tee shot hit those wires until last week. We knew the shot should be replayed without penalty, but the question arises what’s the penalty/score if the ball that hit the wire were to be played from where it came down 50 yards or so off the tee on 360 yard hole. If the player were to get on the green in two more shots and two putt he’s hit the ball five times. We searched the Decisions book but we don’t know what penalties are assessed? We’re sure there’s a two stroke penalty for playing from a wrong place (a breach of the local rule?), but would that be a serious beach? And is the first stroke still cancelled? Help us with the score on the hole.
April 4th, 2013 at 8:10 amRick,
April 4th, 2013 at 8:50 amIf the Committee has adopted the Local Rule as prescibed in Appendix I for overhead powerlines, then the player is required to replay the stroke from the tee. Since he did not, he has played from a wrong place (Rule 20-7) and if the Committee feels that the player has gained a significant advantage, he should be disqualified. Otherwise, the player would add a two stroke penalty to his score with the original ball for playing from a wrong place in violation of the Local Rule and his score would be 7.
What is the ruling regarding a golfer using an iron to make a shot off of the putting green surface of a hole and leaving a divot? Are there rules governig the repair of the divot?
April 4th, 2013 at 6:19 pmNo Joke– My ball landed in a hazard and on a mouse! I don’t know if my ball stunned the mouse, or it was a sick mouse that happened to be in the way of my ball. The mouse was alive. This wasn’t a tournament, and I certainly was not going to hit the ball with a little mouse next to it. But I did have a clear shot to the green without having to take a penalty if the mouse wasn’t there. So what does one do if your ball is next to an animal in a hazard? This was just a mouse, but what about rattlesnakes which are a little more dangerous?!
April 4th, 2013 at 8:50 pmRon,
April 5th, 2013 at 10:11 amThere are no Rules regarding which club a player uses to make a stroke from the putting green. Rule 14 requires that the player must make a stroke with the head of the club. As in all cases, the player should do his best to repair damage to the green caused by making a stroke.
Maureen,
The mouse is considered a animate outside agency and you can do your best to coax the mouse to move or if it won’t move, then Decision 1-4/9 would apply and the player may drop a ball, without penalty, within one club-length of and not nearer the hole than the nearest spot not nearer the hole that would allow him to make his stroke without damaging the nest. If possible, the ball must be dropped in the same hazard and, if not possible, in a similar nearby hazard, but in either case not nearer the hole. If it is not possible for the player to drop the ball in a hazard, he may drop it, under penalty of one stroke, outside the hazard, keeping the point where the original ball lay between the hole and the spot on which the ball is dropped.
If it is a snake or some other dangerous situation, Decision 1-4/10 would apply.
April 5th, 2013 at 10:17 amHi,
April 6th, 2013 at 2:49 pmIn stroke play a player holes out her putt, then taps down several spike marks around the hole some of which are on the line of putt for another player in the group (no partners involved). Is there any penalty involved? And what if the player’s partner still had to finish the hole?
Ed,
April 8th, 2013 at 8:46 amI believe Decision 1-2/3.5 would apply and if the the player was doing it for the sole purpose of taking care of the course and not to influence the play of the the others in the group, there would be no penalty. However, if the player does it and it is on the partners line of putt, the partner incurs a two stroke penalty in stroke play or loss of hole in match play under 16-1a.
HI,
April 9th, 2013 at 9:08 amI need clarification on 2 rules.
1) On the putting green, can you mark your ball with anything even if not round?
2) On the putting green, if I ask a competitor to move their ball so that it is not in my line, MUST the player mark his ball before he goes one way or another or with his ball on the green, can he put his putter head down to the side of the ball, pick up his ball & mark his ball at the end of the putter. Is that a penalty for picking up the ball without marking it? or, is the putter head an acceptable way to mark your ball without penaly?
Peter,
Yes, you may mark your ball with an item that is not round. Decision 20-1/16 gives examples of acceptable items and methods for marking the location of the ball.
What ever procedure is used to mark the position of the ball when spanning the ball should be used to get the ball back to its original location. As stated in decision 20-1/16, a putter head is an acceptable method to marking the ball.
April 9th, 2013 at 3:49 pmHi,
Further clarification needed.
So I can place my putter head to the side of the ball, pick up the ball, place the ball at the end of the putter head, mark the ball, to allow my competitor to putt without my mark in his line?
thanks
April 9th, 2013 at 5:03 pmPeter,
Yes.
Decision 20-1/16 Method Used to Mark Position of Ball
Q.The Note to Rule 20-1 provides that “the position of a ball to be lifted should be marked by placing a ball-marker, a small coin or other similar object immediately behind the ball.” Is a player penalized if he uses an object that is not similar to a ball-marker or small coin to mark the position of his ball?
A.No. The provision in the Note to Rule 20-1 is a recommendation of best practice, but there is no penalty for failing to act in accordance with the Note.
Examples of methods of marking the position of a ball that are not recommended, but are permissible, are as follows:
placing the toe of a club at the side of, or behind, the ball;
using a tee;
using a loose impediment;
scratching a line, provided the putting green is not tested (Rule 16-1d) and a line for putting is not indicated (Rule 8-2b). As this practice may cause damage to the putting green, it is discouraged.
However, under Rule 20-1 it is necessary to physically mark the position of the ball. Reference to an existing mark on the ground does not constitute marking the position of a ball. For example, it is not permissible to mark the position with reference to a blemish on the putting green.
When moving a ball or ball-marker to the side to prevent it from interfering with another player’s stance or stroke, the player may measure from the side of the ball or ball-marker. In order to accurately replace the ball on the spot from which it was lifted, the steps used to move the ball or ball-marker to the side should be reversed.
April 9th, 2013 at 5:47 pmMy partner hit his ball into a Cypress tree, it did not come out any we could not identify any ball in the tree. Is this considered a lost ball and you should go back to the closest point from where it was hit with a one stroke penalty or can you declare a unplayable lie and drop the ball at the cypress tree no closer to the green and take a one stroke penalty, or is it stroke and distance fir the lost ball in a tree.
April 10th, 2013 at 1:31 pmRobert,
April 10th, 2013 at 1:47 pmSince the ball was not found within five minutes after beginning to search for it, the ball is lost by definition and the only option available to the player is to proceed under stroke and distance (Rule 27-1).
Example: Player getting ready to hit second shot. As far as timing: When does his turn start and when is his turn completed, while others are waiting.
April 12th, 2013 at 3:57 pmIn actual time: From start to finish, in seconds: How long is a player allowed to start and complete his turn to hit?
Rule 6-7 permits the Committee to create guidelines for Pace of Play including a maximum time to play a stroke, but it does not stipulate what the set time to complete a stroke should be. Most Committees that do individual stroke timing as their policy use 40 seconds as the guideline. The stopwatch would begin when it is the player’s turn (in the order of play) and he could first conceivably play a stroke (green or fairway clear). The first player to play is generally allowed a reasonable amount of time to survey the stroke and determine his yardage.
April 12th, 2013 at 6:17 pmWhat is the rule on using a cell phone GPS if the cell phone has a compass app that can not be remove? I still see IPhones being used in NCGA events and all IPhones have a compass app. Is this legal?
April 15th, 2013 at 8:51 pmMy local club now says that have made a local rule allowing IPhone GPS. Can they do that?
Bob,
NCGA’S CLARIFICATION ON SMART PHONE APPLICATIONS
The USGA and R&A has issued a joint statement regarding the use of electronic devices. Decision 14-3/0.5 states that any device used for distance measuring may not contain any other functions that
are prohibited (e.g., gradient, wind speed, temperature). The joint statement states that multifunctional devices such as mobile phones may not be used as a distance measuring device if the
device contains any prohibited features.
Many phones have built-in applications that are difficult, if not impossible to delete. For example, the iPhone 3GS ships with a compass application pre-installed. A compass is one of the devices that
may not be used on a golf course (Decision 14-3/4). It is not possible to remove the compass application from the iPhone 3GS. Therefore, it is prohibited to use it as an Electronic Distance Measuring Device under the Rules of Golf. The penalty for using a prohibited device is
disqualification.
The iPhone 3G does not have the Compass application or any other prohibited applications preinstalled. As long as the user has not installed a prohibited application, the iPhone 3G may be used
as an Electronic Distance Measuring Device.
Before using any electronic distance measuring device during a competition, the player should ensure that it conforms to the Rules. Any doubt of conformity will be resolved against the player.
No, your club may not adopt a Local Rule to permit the use of non-conforming distance measuring devices.
April 16th, 2013 at 8:36 amHello, I’m the Handicap Chairman for Peninsula Bell Golf Club.
April 16th, 2013 at 12:22 pmAfter completing his round in last weekends tournament, one of our
players asked for a ruling.
He thought he may have hit his tee shot OB. He then hit a provisional
in the same vicinity. After finding and hitting what he thought was his first ball, he found a ball 10 feet behind the ball he just hit.
He then realized that that was his first ball.
He then abandoned the provisional ball and played his first ball.
He assest himself a 2 stroke penalty for hitting a wrong ball.
Is this correct, or is their a disqualification in order….Thanks
Leo,
April 16th, 2013 at 3:28 pmWhen the player made his second stroke with the provisional ball, the original ball was lost and the provisional ball was in play – Rule 27-2b. In making a stroke with a ball that was no longer in play (the original ball), the player played a wrong ball – see Definition of “Wrong Ball” – and was subject to penalty as prescribed in Rule 15-3. He was required to fix the error prior to starting the play of the next hole. Since he didn’t he should be disqualified. See Decision 27-2b/5 for additional clarification.
Ryan, thanks for the response. The specific rule days that ” the use of a distance-measuring device that is designed to gauge or measure other conditions that might affect a player’s play (e.g., gradient, wind speed, temperature, etc) is not permitted regardless of whether such an additional function is used.” The question is: Since an IPhone 3GS is not “distance measuring device” nor is it “designed” to be a gauge or measuring device does the rule apply if it has the ability to gauge or measure?
April 16th, 2013 at 9:15 pmFollow-up: what action do you recommend if a fellow competitor is observed using a phone GPS?
Bob,
Any device used as an electronic distance measuring device, whether it be a phone or otherwise, it cannot have the capability to measure anything but distance. A phone used as a phone may have the capabilities to measure other conditions and there is no penalty as long as it is used as a phone. Once the player chooses to use it as a distance measuring device, it must not be capable of measuring other conditions.
If a fellow-competitor is observed using a phone as a distance measuring device, you should ask if the device is conforming and whether or not he has received approval from the Committee to use it. If not, let him know that he needs to inform the Committee that he is using it and let them make the determination as to its conformity.
April 17th, 2013 at 7:47 amWhere can I find an explanation of why the number 113 is used in determining a net differential score? How was the formula determined for figuring a net differential score (Page 117 of The NCGA Handicap Manual)and what is it’s accuracy based on? How can I find any NCGA or USGA articles related to this subject?
April 18th, 2013 at 8:03 amThanks much–Pat
Pat, thank you for your comment. Here is a link to an explanation on the source of 113 http://www.popeofslope.com/courserating/twoparameter.html
April 18th, 2013 at 9:54 amThanks again, Jim Cowan, Director of Course Rating and Handicapping
In a 4 BBB matchplay situation, what is the ruling if one competitor lies down on a putting green in order to act as a wind break to a moving ball (down hill, down wind) for his fellow competitor (against the other two players), in order to stop it rolling off the green (external influence, but not actually touching the moving ball)?
April 19th, 2013 at 3:35 pmPlease and thank you.
J. Aldegather,
April 19th, 2013 at 3:47 pmRule 1-2 states that a player may not take an action with the intent to influence or alter physical conditions with the intent of affecting the playing of a hole. The penalty for violation of Rule 1-2 loss of hole in match play. Rule 30-3f states that if a player’s violation assists his partner the partner also receives the penalty. See Decision 1-2/2 for further clarification.
This situation recently came up during our latest round of golf. At our club, near the 7th green (about 25yrds), is our maintance yard. There is a maintinance road covered in gravel that leaves the yard and extends into the area of play (rough)for about 5 yards. One player landed his approach shot on this gravel. He then asked a competitor if he gets a free drop for relief of the gravel. They both concurred that he does get a free drop, which he took. After the hole was over myself and my playing partner, not observing the drop, questioned his taking relief. My playing partner and I both challenged the free drop and said he should be assessed a penalty.
April 21st, 2013 at 10:20 amIf there is a penalty, what should it have been at that point?
This happened today. Player A pushed his tee shot to the right on a par 3. Another person playing a different hole was near where the shot landed. When player A gets to his ball, he finds it on a tee. The message seems obvious–he was being chastised for not yelling fore. How does he play the ball?
April 21st, 2013 at 7:47 pmThanks.
Thanks for the answer to my question about why 113 is used in determining a player’s handicap. But who (Knuth?) and how were the probabilities for scoring at or under one’s handicap listed on the chart on page 117 of The NCGA Handicap Manual developed? I did not find that covered in The Pope of Slope information I was referred to. Thanks again.
April 21st, 2013 at 8:25 pmMike,
April 22nd, 2013 at 7:58 amIf the maintenance road is not considered an immovable obstruction, then the player would incur a two stroke penalty in stroke play or loss of hole in match play for playing from a wrong place under Rule 24-2.
Pat,
April 22nd, 2013 at 8:01 amThe ball was moved by an outside agency and needed to be placed in its original location. If that original location is not know the player must estimate a spot and drop it. See Rule 18-1 and 20-3c.
I have a question on clearing the line of put. My ball is off the green about 1 yard away from the fringe. I want to us my 5 iron to put/chip the ball to the hole. Can I clear the leaves in my line of put while I am off the green?
April 22nd, 2013 at 8:51 amI am a high school coach and we recently had the following occur. Player hit his tee shot into a red staked grass area. He walked in set his clubs down in the hazard and hit what he thought was his ball which didn’t get out of hazard. While walking up to his shot he finds his real ball. He sets his clubs down again in the hazard and hits his original ball out into the fairway. How many penalty strokes should he have gotten
April 22nd, 2013 at 9:08 amDavid,
April 22nd, 2013 at 9:13 amYes, Rule 23 permits you to remove loose impediments on your line of play except when your ball lies in a hazard.
Pat,
April 22nd, 2013 at 9:16 amThe player incurs a penalty of two strokes in stroke play under Rule 15-3 for playing a wrong ball.
When I found my ball in the bunker it is up next to an exposed topped drainage hole with a small leafy branch over the top of drain and ball. I could not remove the ball from the drain for a freee drop with moving the leafy branch. What is the call on this and what penalties if any would I need to take?
April 22nd, 2013 at 10:38 amDeborah,
April 22nd, 2013 at 12:27 pmThere is no penalty. Rule 24-2 allows you to lift your ball and exception 1 under Rule 13-4 permits you to remove loose impediments when retrieving your ball.
This happened over the weekend during a club tournament: my ball came to rest against a tree. I had no legitimate forward shot to the green or fairway. But, if I wanted to try such a shot and just bang my club and the ball against the tree, my feet would have been on the cart path. My question is whether I was entitled to take relief due to the cart path, with the idea that sometimes the rules work against you, and sometimes they work for you? Thanks
April 22nd, 2013 at 5:42 pmTerry,
April 23rd, 2013 at 9:03 amDecision 24-2b/17 applies and as long as the stroke, stance and direction of play are reasonable, you are entitled to relief. If it was not reasonable, then the exception to Rule 24-2 applies and you would not be entitled to relief. How would you have played the stroke if the cart path were not there? If the answer is that you would have either declared the ball unplayable or played in such a way that you would no longer have interference from the obstruction, then the exception applies.
Ryan,
April 23rd, 2013 at 5:58 pmThanks for your response, but I am confused by your answer.
How would a maintenance road be considered an inmoveable obstruction or not? I always was told of your relief from a designated cart path, but not from other non-cart paths or roads. In my instance, the area is not marked off as GUR or anything else. Would it not be “rub of the green” and either play it as it lies or take an unplayable with one stroke?
Mike,
An artificially surfaced road is considered an obstruction under the Rules of Golf (Decision 24/9). If any foreign material has been added to the road or path (concrete, tar, gravel, wood chips, etc.) it is an obstruction by definition. If there no artificial material has been added or the Committee has deemed it to be an integral part of the course, the ball would lie through the green and the player would not be entitled to relief as prescribed in Rule 24-2. The player would be required to play the ball as it lies or proceed under his options as prescribed in Rule 28 (Ball Unplayable).
Rub of the Green is when a ball in motion is deflected or stopped by an outside agency.
April 24th, 2013 at 8:39 amPat Faeth, thank you for your comment. The USGA Handicap Research Team (composed of various mathematicians) is responsible for the Odds table. The findings are the result of research into tens of thousands of scores. I am not aware of any articles that have been published on the subject. I do know that they are performing a similar analysis at this time. Thanks again – Jim Cowan, Director of Course Rating and Handicapping
April 24th, 2013 at 8:48 amOur club recently held a stableford competition with the players going out in 3 balls. On the first tee the players in one of the groups each declared what balls they were playing with, Player A stating ‘titlist 1 with my initials on’. Each of the three players then tee’d off.
Player A on reaching his 3rd shot realised he was actually playing with a slazenger ball (again with his initials on)- the titlist ball he had first declared was still in his pocket! What is the ruling?
*Has he played a wrong ball?
April 24th, 2013 at 1:28 pm*Has he incorrectly substituted his ball? or
*As a ball isn’t actually in play until you make the first
stroke the player couldn’t have done either of the above,
therefore there is no penalty.
Carol,
April 24th, 2013 at 1:50 pmIt sounds like the player started the hole with the Slazenger ball. Rule 15-1 states that a player must hole out with the ball played from the teeing ground. He has not played a wrong ball, he has not incorrectly substituted a ball, he incurs no penalty.
Thanks Ryan for your answer. I am always happy to learn the
April 25th, 2013 at 8:30 amcorrect interpertations of the rules of golf.
Another player plays my ball so how do I put another ball back in play? If I don’t know exactly where my ball was I know I drop it. But what if there’s a divot? Do I get to place it right next to the divot because the lie was altered? What’s right?
April 26th, 2013 at 2:51 pmEd,
April 26th, 2013 at 4:06 pmWhen another player plays your ball, he has played a wrong ball. Rule 15-3 requires you to place a ball on the spot from which the wrong ball was first played. If the spot is not determinable Rule 20-3c applies and you must through the green drop a ball as near as possible to the place where the ball originally lay. If you know the spot because of the divot, the lie has been altered and Rule 20-3b applies. Except in a hazard you would place a ball in the nearest most similar lie that is not more than one club-length from the original lie and not nearer the hole or in a hazard. See also the Note to Rule 20-3b if the lie has been altered and the spot is not determinable.
Burrowing animal debris questions. Is relief allowed for a burrowing animal in a bunker? A waste bunker? Behind a tree where relief would allow a shot not possible from the original position (a get out of jail card)? Thank you, Dale
April 28th, 2013 at 7:58 amPlaying with friends on a sunday afternoon. I have a new club that i has just got for this paticular par 3. was windy but just wanted to hit new club so i told my group that it wasn’t going to count just wanted to see if new club would clear sand on this hole. I hit again after my group and using the club i would normally use it went in the hole. Hole in one or not?
April 28th, 2013 at 5:15 pmDale,
The exception to Rule 25-1 states that a player may not take relief under this Rule if (a) interference by anything other than an abnormal ground condition makes the stroke clearly impracticable or (b) interference by an abnormal ground condition would occur only through use of a clearly unreasonable stroke or an unnecessarily abnormal stance, swing or direction of play.
A player would be entitled to relief under this Rule if the ball lies anywhere except when in a water hazard or lateral water hazard. If obtaining relief in a bunker, the relief must be in the bunker or the player may take a one stroke penalty and drop the ball outside the bunker on the imaginary line with the hole and the ball and as far behind the bunker as he likes. See Rule 25-1 for additional information.
April 28th, 2013 at 8:27 pmPat,
April 28th, 2013 at 8:32 pmFrom your description, it sounds like you played a stroke from the teeing ground with your new club and then another stroke with another club from the teeing ground. If this is correct, your score for the hole was a three. Unfortunately, not a hole in one. You actually proceeded under stroke and distance (Rule 27-1). The Rules of Golf do not allow you to play practice strokes during the stipulated round from the teeing ground.
What’s the rule on two players on the same green putting at the same time and having the golf balls roll into each other?
May 1st, 2013 at 8:40 amJon,
Rule 19-5b,
If a player’s ball in motion after a stroke on the putting green is deflected or stopped by another ball in motion after a stroke, the player’s stroke is canceled. The ball must be replaced and replayed, without penalty.
Note: Nothing in this Rule overrides the provisions of Rule 10-1 (Order of Play in Match Play) or Rule 16-1f (Making Stroke While Another Ball in Motion).
May 1st, 2013 at 8:48 amwhile using my club seeking relief from cart path I dropped the ball and hit my club that I was using to measure. is that a penalty or not? thanks
May 1st, 2013 at 3:42 pmRalph,
May 1st, 2013 at 3:49 pmThere is no penalty and the ball must be re-dropped. Rule 20-2 applies:If the ball, when dropped, touches any person or the equipment of any player before or after it strikes a part of the course and before it comes to rest, the ball must be re-dropped, without penalty. There is no limit to the number of times a ball must be re-dropped in these circumstances.
Prior to tournament play (day of) can a coach or caddie go out on the course and shoot distances of par 3′s if players are not allowed to us range finders in playing this tournament.
May 3rd, 2013 at 10:16 amGary,
May 3rd, 2013 at 10:27 amUnless, the Committee has adopted a condition prohibiting it. There is nothing in the Rules that prohibit a player, coach or caddie from measuring the distances of a hole prior to the start of a round.
What is the current NCGA rule for determining a winner in the case of a tie? (i.e. scorecard playoff)
May 8th, 2013 at 9:17 amSteve,
May 8th, 2013 at 1:38 pmIn most cases, we break ties by a suddend death play-off. If we cannot get back on the course, we will use the USGA’s recommended method of matching scorecards.
What is the rule regarding practicing putting, chipping, or pitching in a stroke play tournament on a green that you have completed play on?
May 10th, 2013 at 9:08 pmKevin,
If the Commitee has not adopted the Note to Rule 7-2, the provisions of the Rule apply.
Between the play of two holes a player must not make a practice stroke, except that he may practice putting or chipping on or near:
a. the putting green of the hole last played,
b. any practice putting green, or
c. the teeing ground of the next hole to be played in the round, provided a practice stroke is not made from a hazard and does not unduly delay play (Rule 6-7).
Note 2: The Committee may, in the conditions of a competition (Rule 33-1), prohibit:
(a) practice on or near the putting green of the hole last played, and
(b) rolling a ball on the putting green of the hole last played.
May 11th, 2013 at 4:48 amMy partner in a 4 ball stroke play didn’t show up until after the other three of us had started our walk down the fairway. We knew he couldn’t have a score to count, but what about just teeing off and catching up and playing along with us?
May 13th, 2013 at 7:48 amEd,
May 13th, 2013 at 8:49 amThe player that joined the group incurred no penalty unless any of his strokes assisted his partner. If the player’s actions assisted his partner, the partner would also incur the penalty. See Rule 31-8 for further clarification.
This situation has come up a couple of times in tournaments at our club, in stroke play and in match play.
May 13th, 2013 at 12:23 pmA player hits his ball into a sand trap and it rolls into a burrow in the trap. The burrow is in the face of the trap and directly above is outside the sand trap. Can the player claim this as the nearest point of relief and drop outside the trap? Does the point within the burrow where the ball comes to rest have any bearing on nearest point of relief?
Jim,
The margin of a bunker extends vertically downwards, so the answer depends on whether or not the player sees or has found the ball. If the ball is found, and he can see that it lies outside the margin of the bunker, the player is entitled to relief (See Decision 25-1b/25 for an example).
If the ball is not found, but it is known or virtually certain that the ball is in the burrowing animal hole, the player is entitled to relief from the burrowing animal on the part of the course where it last crossed the outermost limits of the condition (i.e., where it entered the hole). In this case that means relief may be taken in accordance with Rule 25-1c(ii) in the bunker.
May 13th, 2013 at 3:55 pmMay a player use an aiming stick during a round of play if they remove it before the stroke is played or are they only allowed on the practice areas?
May 16th, 2013 at 5:16 amWayne,
May 16th, 2013 at 7:59 amDecision 14-3/10.3 states that the player would be disqualified for useing an alignment rod during the round as the rod is unusual equipment and such use, during the stipulated round, is not permitted.
We have a lateral water hazard that runs along the side and back of a hole. When we hit onto the green, we sometimes roll into the hazard in the back. We are able to take a two club relief but will not be able to drop it as it will surely go back into the water. We have been told that we can only place the ball there if we have written it into our rules that the ball can be placed and not dropped. Otherwise, we have to drop twice and allow the balls to go into the water and then place a ball. Is there any way for us to take the “placed relief” without writing it into our local rules?
May 16th, 2013 at 2:03 pmDeborah,
A local Rule permitting a player to place the ball without dropping it first is not permitted under the Rules of Golf as it would waive a Rule (see also Decision 26-1/10). Without seeing the specific hole it seems as though you have three viable options:
1) See if the course could raise the hazard line to the point where the ground first breaks down toward the hazard, allowing two club-lengths to reach a flat spot where players could drop without rolling back into the hazard. This may or may not be possible.
2) Add a drop zone that players could drop in for a ball that enters the hazard behind the green allowing for a flat drop area.
3) Always have someone ready to catch the ball as soon as it crosses the hazard margin and before going into the water so that you don’t lose the ball.
May 16th, 2013 at 2:42 pmOne of our golfing group brought this quiz question to our game yesterday. Can you help with the answer? A player has hit his ball into a water hazard, and he is planning to play from the hazard as the ball is on dry land. While waiting to play he spots a new golf ball in the same hazard down in a few inches of water. He can’t resist so he uses one of his clubs to pull out the ball. Is he penalized for touching the water or is he absolved from penalty because he was simply just moving a movable obstruction? Or is the action just casual and unrelated to the situation?
May 21st, 2013 at 7:18 amRick,
May 21st, 2013 at 9:01 amThe player does not incur a penalty. Exception 1 of Rule 13-4 permits the player to touch the ground and water in a water hazard when retreiving a ball and removing a movable obstruction.