Sandbagging – What can be done?
Has this happened to you?
On the first tee you set up a game, determine course handicaps, negotiate terms and tee off. You play your usual game, maybe a little worse than what your handicap might indicate (as the handicap system actually predicts you should) but by the time the round is over you realize you’re going to have to take out a small loan to cover what you owe your opponent.
The golfer that defeated you was a crafty one. Draining all the putts that mattered yet developing yips when it didn’t. Striping it down the middle with a swing that looks like Ernie Els’ but then hitting it OB when his lead was secure. You know you’ve been victimized by a world-class sandbagger and the bad taste it leaves in your mouth could last a month.
But what can be done? Together with the USGA, the NCGA has methodology in place to help clubs curb this nefarious practice:
1) Peer Review – Yes, ensuring that the score your opponent just shot got accurately posted is the most important step. With the availability of online handicap lookup, this has never been easier. Simply go to ncga.org’s homepage and in the green box, click “look up player by name.” Then, after filling out the fields, you should be presented with that player’s scoring record – but be sure to click “recent scores” to determine whether a score has been posted. Without clicking “recent scores” you will only see the numbers that determined the current handicap and not those most recently posted.
2) Skipping this step allows the bagger to escape once again. The most effective deterrent to sandbagging is a vigilant club.
3) Posting important tournament scores with a “T.” Ask yourself this question – is this an event that will bring sandbaggers out from under the rock they live under? Is that $500 golf shop credit first prize going to inspire your club’s baggers to new creative heights? Then make sure you post those rounds with a “T.”
4) Is your club observing the same player failing to post, not following the rules of equitable stroke control or taking other actions to manipulate scoring? There are tools available to handicap committees such as a posting a penalty score or in the most extreme cases, withdrawal of that player’s Handicap Index.
The NCGA’s comprehensive handicap certification program, now available online, outlines in complete detail the USGA Handicap System and steps club officers can take to protect their members and others from the sickness that is sandbagging.
What do you think? What else can be done?
One way to cut down on sandbagging is to remove the online feature to post a score. When you look up someone by name it does not show the name of the cource he posted his score on, just the score. Some guys will post a months worth of scores on one day of the month and you have no idead which cources he is posting on. Make people post at the cource on the day they play, maybe someone he plays with might be looking over his shoulder as see what he posts.
July 7th, 2010 at 10:27 amDear NCGA,
I have a 4 index and now play exclusively in championship flights, much for this reason. The ONLY way I see this problem of sandbaggging being rectified is to determine one’s index by using TOURNAMENT scores. To what degree? Exclusively? Probably not. 90%? 95%? This is the truest way for TOURNAMENT PLAY. We all can score lower practicing with buddies, but tournaments often put the choke hold on us. But that’s tournament golf, and that is where the indices matter most.
Peter Wood
July 7th, 2010 at 10:33 amOur Club uses a combination of T-Score and GHIN score differentials to determine a handicap in Club events. We use the index that is the lower of the two. We create a T-Score Index by applying the differential(s) from all posted tournament scores. These are available on the NCGA/GHIN twice-monthly report under “Scores.” Select only Tournament Scores – export the players T-scores using Excel to the Handicap Chair’s computer – Sort differentials from low to high – average the appropriate number of useable scores using the table on Page 83 of the NCGA Handicap Manual and determine how many differentials apply. Currently 25 of 54 members play to a T-Score Index rather than the NCGA/GHIN Index.
July 7th, 2010 at 11:00 amI’ve always thought scores should be posted into the computer hole-by-hole, instead of a single total. This will only add maybe 1 minute of time to the posting process, and will offer numerous advantages.
Aside from a number of non-sandbagging-related gains:
better handicapping for match-play vs. stroke-play events;
better course handicapping (which hole really should be #1 handicap); better statistics for individuals to help them improve, etc.
IT WILL ALSO HELP DETER CHEATING. Here’s how:
1. A peer has a much easier time reviewing a posted score. You can’t be expected to remember every stroke an opponent makes in a round, but you ought to be able to remember what he made on certain specific holes.
2. The computer can pick up on irregularities of posted scores, for example if a player posts a lot of high numbers near the end of the round.
3. Equitable Stroke Control will be automatic, which will eliminate improperly adjusted ‘blow-up’ holes.
4. If you question whether a round was really played, you can ask him to re-play the round for you, and see if his ‘story’ matches up to what was posted. That would be hard to do.
I believe this system would give the handicap committee some very good opportunities to verify the handicap of someone that seems to be sand-bagging.
July 7th, 2010 at 12:00 pmI see many of the same guys from my area qualify to play NCGA tournaments year after year. I think it is pretty obvious these “repeating contestants” are abusing the system. I think it would be a good idea for NCGA to set up a tournament for baggers only—those who qualify year after year. Let them cheat one another.
July 7th, 2010 at 12:17 pmIt is harder to hide strokes in medal play because the sandbagger can’t look down the road and dump strokes, he has to qualify. In match play when the sandbagger is out of a hole he can dump strokes. This is especially true when you are playing four ball (Two man best ball). How about we change ESC to: 0 -19: Double Bogey, 20-29: 7 strokes, 30-39: 8 strokes. I have seen suspected sandbaggers in the 10-19 range take a 7 on a par 3 when they are out of the hole. Double would make it more difficult for them to pad their score. The single digit handicappers seem to police themselves more closely. It might be because they can only take a double.
July 7th, 2010 at 12:39 pmOkay so this just came to me and may not be feasible but here goes. How about the NCGA modify their posting system to allow for a confirmation score. So if I’m playing with my buddies, I shoot 10 over, I post the 10 over but one of my buddies who also is an NCGA member has to confirm that score. Those confirmed scores then receive more weight when used in tournaments. Unconfirmed scores are used but they are modified in a manner to discourage sandbagging. Let’s assume the average sandbagger adds a set number of strokes to keep his handicap high, those unconfirmed scores are modified accordingly by the NCGA to establish handicap. Shouldn’t be too hard to get golfers to spend a little extra time to confirm scores, and thereby maintain the integrity of the game.
July 7th, 2010 at 12:57 pmGerry
Sandbagging can be minimized with effective club leadership and players making an effort to be informed.
Bottom line, people actively playing golf, competing in golf, need to make an effort to inform themselves by making the effort to click on the links in this article, read NCGA magazine, attend workshops, and other sources to improve their knowledge.
The only people that will have a problem being called out are the baggers. Clubs cannot live in fear of their members, and any member who becomes demonstrative with threats of lawsuits, etc. should be kicked out. Who wants a whack job like that in the club anyway?
On a side note: I thought NCGA, in NCGA events, could modify the HC of an entrant in an NCGA event, who, at a minimum of 4 tournaments, consistently shot below their HC in previous NCGA events.
Sandbagging is a result of low self esteem, “others do it, so it’s ok,” personal ethics, and that $25 worth of pro shop swag is their validation and sense of significance. Sandbaggers tell themselves every day that they aren’t good enough to win on their own skill, they need to manipulate a system based on flawed thought every else does it.
July 7th, 2010 at 1:32 pmHERE’S THE FINAL ANSWER…The NCGA needs to create two handicaps every month. One for the total of all rounds and one for tournament rounds. From the club level tournaments all the way up to the NCGA championships the TOURNAMENT HANDICAP will be used. The total handicap in merely informational and really doesn’t have any bearing except for personal wagers or improvement progression.
This makes the tournament handicap much more valuable to the player. A person is not going to sign up and pay for a bunch of tournaments, then play “bad” just to get their tournament handicap up for some future tournament. It wouldn’t make financial sense. If a person doesn’t play in that many tournaments then it’s their tough luck, they need to start getting involved.
By playing in a tournament there is complete verification of the round and the score, because it is going to be entered by the club’s board or the NCGA, also making sure that the score gets posted properly.
>Take away the online posting as well.
>Make T posting only available to the handicap chairman and NCGA.
It really has become out of control and takes away the suspense, fun, and anticipation of playing in a net handicap tournament.
July 7th, 2010 at 2:38 pmThanks for the suggestions everyone. There seems to be a consensus that some issues are created by online posting. This is a club-level decision; i.e. the NCGA merely follows the club’s desires in allowing it. If you are noticing a problem at your club, take up with your handicap chair and let the NCGA know if you want to change this feature.
July 7th, 2010 at 2:42 pmWith all due respect to others giving comments, eliminating online posting is NOT the answer. All you do is take away a very convenient (and sometimes necessary) feature offered by the NCGA. Nobody is watching over you when you post a round onsite, so what is the difference?
July 7th, 2010 at 3:15 pmI’m going to go just a bit “different” on this and suggest that it’s possible, just possible, that it’s not sandbagging in the truest sense of the word – where high scores are posted just to inflate handicaps.
My theory is that the problem is two-fold, one of which was touched on by another respondent, the Equitable Stroke Control System. While it’s mentioned that changing the cut off may help, I offer that ANY ESC system is flawed by it’s very nature. An arbitrary cut off of 9 (or any cut off for that matter) before a triple bogey can be posted makes absolutely no sense at all and, respectfully to the powers that be, it needs to be canned immediately if not sooner. Under that system, a golfer with a course handicap of 10, just one stroke more than a 9, can effectively post 18 additional strokes per round than the 9. Also considering that the course handicap is decided by an index range, the reality of it is that this can actually happen to two different golfers whose indexes are a single tenth of an index point apart. Moving the dividing line around does nothing to fix the issue, it just moves the point at which the problem takes place.
The other area that I think exacerbates this problem is the course rating system, hear me out on this one before you scratch your heads… My home course has the following yardages and ratings from two sets of tees: Blue @ 6600y, 71.9 and White @ 6053y, 69.3. There is no way these two tee boxes are going to produce an average difference of 2.6 strokes per round for a given player. The total difference in yardage, 547 yards means theres an average difference per hole of 30 yards – there is no way you’re going to have that extra 30 yards per hole only “turn into” 2.6 extra bogies per round, its just not going to happen, period. I could go on and on about this where golfers are hitting 4i’s instead of 8i’s all day because of the yardage difference, but you get the drift. My own experience with this, and I play a TON of golf on lots of different courses, is that there’s a 6 – 8 stroke difference, not the less than 3 strokes that would be indicated.
Since course ratings are one of the main factors by which indexes are calculated, if not the main factor aside from the score, this is going to result in artificially high handicaps every time without fail. I find some merit in the hole-by-hole posting that’s mentioned and here’s why – the current system essentially measures “failure rate” versus “success rate” – in fact I would point out that the current ESC system only adjusts for failure, i.e. bogies and worse, and gives no credit whatsoever to those extraordinarily low individual hole scores the same way. Posting hole by hole allows for another level of calculation – a birdie on the number 1 handicap hole for a 24 handicap player is certainly more rare statistically that is the 24 making a triple bogey on the same hole and should be treated as a statistical rarity just like the “quad”. Conversely, it would certainly be an aberration for a 1 handicap player to make a triple bogey on the number 18 handicap hole.
Discuss and turn in your papers by next week…
July 7th, 2010 at 3:29 pmThe biggest problem at our club is the difference in the winter scores vs the summer scores. Winter scores are always higher and in summer the handicaps generally come down, but not until a few rounds are posted. The early summer season creates the biggest sandbag opportunities. I would somehow reduce the weighting of the winter scores and increase the weighting of the summer scores to get a better reflection of a real handicap.
July 7th, 2010 at 4:00 pmWe have a sandbagger problem at our course that goes back at least 30 years. One group will fudge on their posting and the rest will eventually do so just to stay even.Maybe playing scratch is best.
July 7th, 2010 at 5:23 pmTournament handicaps would threaten baggers. No tournament scores, forfeit winnings if score is under the norm set by the NCGA
July 7th, 2010 at 6:07 pmWe generally aren’t playing for money, and if you are “caveat emptor”. Which brings me to my point and (eventually) my suggestion.
Our word “compete” comes from the Latin “competere” which translates to strive together and originates with the Roman games which, originally, were established to keep soldiers skills sharp during times of peace. Striving together achieved excellence for all.
There are two kinds of sandbaggers. One type reports low scores to make their index look good. I don’t worry about these because they won’t do well in tournaments anyway (and usually don’t). The second group reports high scores to keep their index high so they can do well in net tournaments. They cheat in order to “win”. The solution then is to take away their carrot. Don’t declare “winners” for tournaments. Hold the tournament, compile the scores, and post them. Period.
This works for single level tournaments, but for NCGA championships where there are sectional qualifiers a sandbaggers goal is likely getting to play in the “Championship”. This is usually just a problem with net tournaments because those who shade their scores low to get into “scratch” tournaments won’t be competitive anyway.
A suggestion for NCGA tournaments is to require competitors to play to an index based on the tees the tournament is being played from. If the tournament is being played from white tees, only count rounds played from the white tees in establishing a competitor’s index. This keeps long hitters who generally play from, and establish their index from, the blues from having an advantage from the whites. This can be a major factor in 2PBB format tournaments. Where most of the competitors are hitting long irons into the greens, two long hitters with mid teen handicaps have a high probability that at least one of them is going to be hitting a short approach shot from the fairway. If you look at the two players who won the Associate Club Four Ball Championship last year I suspect you will find that this is the case. I played the first round with them and they weren’t that good, but they were long and one of them usually found the fairway. Individually they wouldn’t have done that well but as a team they did.
Just some thoughts.
July 7th, 2010 at 8:01 pmI agree with an earlier poster about the rating/slope system being broken. The rating/slope system, in it’s current form, could easily inflate handicaps, even if the golfer is ethical.
Let’s assume every golfer is honest and does not post incorrectly, or take “extra” strokes on a certain hole they are already out of in stroke play (I know this is not realistic, but let’s play along for argument’s sake). You can play an easy course (local muni) from the white tees, and then you can play, let’s say, Spyglass Hills from the tips (blue tees). An average golfer would get maybe 3 or 4 extra strokes added to their handicap playing Spyglass from the blue compared to the local muni from the whites. Any average golfer who has ever played Spyglass can tell you it is more like 10 to 15 strokes harder. So under this example, the golfer who plays all his rounds at a Spyglass “type” course from the blue tees, will have a much higher index than another similar-skilled golfer who plays all his rounds from the local muni from the white tees.
Did the golfer who established his index at Spyglass cheat? Is he a sandbagger? Or does the rating/slope system need to take into account that hard courses need to be treated MUCH differently than easy courses in establishing an accurate index.
July 7th, 2010 at 8:15 pmMy experience with sandbaggers had always been in NCGA tournaments. While the NCGA could not effectively monitor or audit private or associate clubs handicapping process, the NCGA could minimize the negative impact of sandbagging in NCGA tournaments by introducing a weighted handicap system such that both tournament ‘T’ scores and GHIN information are used to determine handicaps. ‘T’ scores should be weighted more than GHIN, may be T/GHIN should be 70/30 or somewhere in that range. Sandbaggers will not make much headway in tournaments if ‘T’ scores figured prominently in determining tournament handicaps. That would blunt the impact of sandbaggers inputting bogus/inflatted scores by sandbaggers; essentially a waste of time and effort.
July 7th, 2010 at 8:44 pmDo away with individual online posting. Only tournament chairmen, or flight chairmen, post scores from official cards. A bit of work but it would even out the playing field, or in other words, eradicate the cheaters.
July 7th, 2010 at 9:31 pmUse tournament scores for tournament play.
July 7th, 2010 at 9:58 pmI’m fairly new to the NCGA and the handicap system and just signed up for my e-clubs Net Amatuer this month. I am a 7.7 index right now and am playing well and consistenly lowering my handicap by .2-.4 per month. I was told by many people that playing in the clubs net amatuer would be a waste of $ for me due to sandbaggers. I have no experience with this but I can see from all of the posts that it is clearly an issue in the NCGA. I would have to shoot a 68 (my personal best is 77) to have a chance at winning my clubs tourney. This is all because some 21 handicap will have a “Lights out” day and shoot a 83 and beat me by 1. I would question whether or not that person could really be a 21 handicap, but unless I was in the foursome, I wouldn’t really know.
Needless to say I’m not all that excited to compete anymore and am just looking forward to playing competitively on a new course.
My solution to this is to either make playing partners post each others scores, or to play these tourneys scratch. Using only Tournament scores wouldn’t solve this in my case. I’ve only played 2 tournaments and shot high 80′s each time in bad weather and am a 7.7 now. Would I be a sandbagger if i was held to only my tourney hdcp and went out and shot 79 and won?? Doesn’t seem fair.
July 7th, 2010 at 11:45 pmI think the bottom line is that you cannot prevent sandbaggers from manipulating the system. How many times have any of you been playing a fairly decent round, trying your heart out then yanked 2 OB in a row. Round gone and blown. I personally try as hard as I can to shoot the lowest score possible, count every stroke, and post every round. But even at that, I once had 5 birdies in a round and only shot 83 due to OB and water. The only difference is whether those things happen as the rub of the green, or if they happen intentionally to enhance one’s handicap. I solved the problem, I don’t play competitive unless it is scratch or, in the case of my Senior Men’s Club, primarily for fun because you can’t win enough cash to break even. But I agree the ESC system is broken. Nobody under a 19 should be allowed anything more than a double bogey. Also, the NCGA should mandate all clubs, private, public, associate or whatever, to post any and all tournament rounds as T postings. I have yet to see a T posting from my club for anything. Make it a condition of NCGA membership for a club.
July 8th, 2010 at 6:47 amWhen it comes to playing a tournament, every player’s handicap should be based on his/her last 3 to 5 POSTED TOURNAMENT scores. Thus eliminating the “sandbagging” scores to be considered in handicapping.
July 8th, 2010 at 7:08 amA great question and not easily answered. A few thoughts:
July 8th, 2010 at 7:43 am- I believe all posting methods are great, we are in the digital, electronic age. The game is one of honor and to take away all avenues would be saying it is dis-honorable.
- Bring back the L.I. – low index for the last 12 months or T.I. where performance in NCGA events weighs most, say 80%, and all other “T’s” are 20%. Team home/home would be excluded as there is much too much going on at this level to monitor; as yet. Albeit, it is getting better.
- Remind the clubs and hdcp chairs on a REGULAR basis that they have the POWER to give an individual the appropriate hdcp where deemed necessary. I used this tactic successfully during my 10 years as hdcp chair for a club. As well it should be put in BOLD CAPS that handicaps are a measure of what a player is capable, not necessarily what he/she is currently achieveing!!!
- Take a lesson from the biggest sandbagging tourney of all time – DuPont World Amateur. Use their review formula, much like I outlined above, and IMPORTANTLY – adjust indexes from one day to the next on two day tourneys, where net scores are abnormally low (at net PAR or below).
- I would take exception to comments posted regarding consistent qualifliers. I am guilty, for one, and proud to be a consistent golfer within my ability range. I don’t have the great up and down swings of scores that some of my peers have when it comes to competitive rounds.
- Finally, I believe too much credit is given by the NCGA to “peer” review. It definitely needs to be managed by the club HDCP committees and the NCGA for tournaments. The clubs are often “pressured” to not enforce as it takes away from and immediate dollar should a player(s) quit over the issue. What clubs don’t realize is the positive benefit of increased revenue with a reputation that they don’t tolerate baggers.
At the club I belong to, sandbagging has become less of a problem.
Maybe it’s having a strong handicap chairman. In the past, we’ve effectively chased-away people that have been abusing the system. In one case, after someone came into the clubhouse after a tournament round stating that they had played “like crap”, but shooting NET PAR, it enacted a chain of events with our handicap chairman. They went back to posted scores and discovered that all the high scores on their index were casual rounds and nearly all the lower scores were tournament rounds. Our handicap chairman adjusted the offenders’ tournament handicap to match tournament scores, and all off a sudden, the previous offender wasn’t having nearly as easy a time winning. While it made it more fair for everyone involved, it DID have the effect of chasing the offender out of the club. I can say they have moved their sandbagging “you-know-whats” to another course in the area.
Has it solved the issue? Not entirely. The offender has now just moved onto other victims. Perhaps they’ll eventually run into another strong handicap chairman and get chased away again.
I know the NCGA tries to police their own tournaments and has sent out letters to many people having “career” rounds over the past five years or so. I don’t think the average bagger gets a chance to win too many NCGA events without getting the dreaded “R” next to their index.
For those that don’t compete in NCGA tournaments often, I’m sure the GHIN computer could perform a quick check on indexes and make adjustments to those that have abnormal tournament scores automatically.
From what I know of the handicap system we have is that it’s supposed to give everyone a number based upon POTENTIAL to shoot a certain number. If everyone was given an index – either by the normal, standard method, or by tournament scores – WHICHEVER IS LOWER, I believe we’ll have a system that makes nearly all of us happy.
July 8th, 2010 at 8:07 amWhy not use the handicap system to put players in flights based on their index then play like they do in the championship flight(no strokes).
Example. Index flight 5.1 to 10 compete against each other no one gets strokes.
flight 10.1 to 15 play against each other and no one gets strokes.
The flight ranges could be adjusted but it’s just an idea
They use something like this in tennis and it works very well. If a player wins too often then they are moved up to a higher flight.
July 8th, 2010 at 10:15 amThe NCGA has T scores handicapped for their tourneys for players who always shoot lower than their caps. For local tourneys there are those who get an R cap until their low T scores fall off. The players we have the most trouble with are the ones who never play in tourneys. Just $10 Nassau. Lowering the ESC would go a long way in restricting these players.
July 8th, 2010 at 11:51 amBaggers disgust me. I have a hard time understanding the lowlife mentality that creates this. Improve your game j….a.., relying on cheating to win is incredibly pathetic. I truely pity your lame existences….
July 8th, 2010 at 12:43 pmFirst of all, I wonder how someone can be proud of winning a tournament by sandbagging. How low can you go??? I agree with Peter Wood that “tournament scores” should determine your index. I know that there are a lot of honest people out there posting their true scores but also, there are the bad apples that give the game a bad name.
July 8th, 2010 at 8:00 pmI’M WONDERING: Is the NCGA going to do anything about this??? Or are they going to rely on the club level to police their members, when in fact, a lot of the officers of many of the men’s clubs are some of the biggest sandbaggers, therefore culprits themselves.
NCGA: Create a second handicap that employs only a TOURNAMENT HANDICAP. What will it take? A simple mathematical calculation added to the handicap revision each month. Come on NCGA helps us honest players out!
July 8th, 2010 at 11:54 pmRobert – The NCGA has created a Net Score Database that analyzes scores in its own net events and takes action when established thresholds are exceeded. When a handicap is adjusted for an NCGA event, the club handicap chairman is notified. The NCGA also mandates that one club member is on each club roster go through a comprehensive certification process every four years. The tournament handicap you speak of already exists in the form of an “R” that goes into effect for exceptional performance IF scores are posted with the requisite “T.”
July 9th, 2010 at 12:01 amThe golf courses and pro shops need the revenue from tournament play and to the degree that potential players perceive cheating is occurring and don’t enter tournaments courses and pro shops lose. Often the value of script won in tournaments is not equivalent to cash and it seems absurd that people are actually deliberating cheating to obtain it. If “sandbagging” is really that big of problem causing a lot of people not to enter tournaments then do away with handicap tournaments and let everyone play only against the course. Another alternative would be to use algorithms to calculate the return each player is getting given his handicap in tournament events over a period of years and post a list updated monthly showing the biggest “sandbaggers” and try to humiliate the person into being more honest(?). Did the woman reported in the news recently to have won 4 multimillion dollar lotteries over a period of many years cheat to do it or was she just lucky? Sandbagging to the degree that it exists just reflects the prevailing lack of character in our society.
July 9th, 2010 at 8:47 amI agree with what a couple of people already said. First I think we need to adjust the equitable scoring. For a 12 handicapper like myself the NCGA allows me to post up to a 7 while the RCGA in Canada only allows a double bogey. Also entering you hole by hole score with the system adjusting for the equitable strokes makes sense to me.
July 9th, 2010 at 11:14 amSandbagging has always and will always be a major problem with the integrity of this game. A game that is truly the purest sport of all which defines itself on ethical fortitude is filled with unethical individuals at every turn. A simple solution to these sandbaggers would be to cut the difference in handicaps by 25% in all events, similar to the system in England. Furthermore, I agree with the limitations in maximum in scoring for each hole. The fact that many players pay for lessons, work on their games, and want to get better, these sandbaggers are limiting the results of those efforts. I recently lost my club’s match play semifinal match to a player I was giving 20 strokes. Needless to say, when my opponent was net 4 under after 17, I lost. As your article reads, the bad taste can last a month and it will terminally affect my opinion of this individual.
July 9th, 2010 at 12:06 pmHey, lets call it what it really is cheating. If you have to cheat to compete your not a competitor
July 9th, 2010 at 12:37 pmAll above have great ideas and some have been reading. So I ask you to read a little more and here’s my two bits from a guy who used to play 300 rounds a year.
Find out who Dean Knuth is and look at his work on the website, this is going to be a shocker – USGA.com
Now go to the areas on that website: Handicaps, Shooting and Exceptional Tournament Round and rounds back to back, Immediate Reduction of Handicap, and then the area on suggestion of how you break the news (politically correctly) to a competitor you are going to disqualify them and or reduce their handicap based on this published information. Remember the part about a “gentleman’s game, played with honor and respect.
For all Golf Courses who hold handicap tournaments: POST THIS INFORMATION – (Odds of breaking your Handicap and Immediate Reduction of Handicap) Let me say that again…POST THIS INFORMATION.
Lastly – ENFORCE IT
I take that back…lastly – fix three divots on every green and 40 seconds a shot.
Have a great DAY!!
July 9th, 2010 at 8:18 pmSince the last ESC adjustment schedule was created, I’ve always considered it ridiculous that 10-19′s can take a 7 on a par 3. That’s simply not reasonable. Let’s go back to the maximum double bogey rule to keep people honest. After all what’s honest about allowing a quad?
July 10th, 2010 at 8:16 amI strongly agree with 2 of the main suggestions above.
Tournament handicaps should be compiled from previous tournament results only. First-time tournament entrants can use their normal handicaps, but that will only happen once (after that, of course they will have at least 1 tournament result).
And, ESC should not allow quads. I’ve had my share of those – and I hate to post them since it’s not reflective of normal play. There’s perhaps even a case for not including triples – or, no more than a certain amount per round.
But the first suggestion is the one that will eliminate the sandbaggers, since there would no longer be any incentive for them to post higher than real scores from non-tournament rounds. Plus, it is very easy to administrate since T-scores are already separated and shown.
July 10th, 2010 at 10:34 amMost sandbagging comes from people who selectively post scores,(only the high scores),or the “vanity handicappers” who post only their low scores. No one cares about the second group since they rarely win tournaments. I truly believe that if everyone posts all scores,good and bad, they will have a fair tournament handicap. If you play in a regular foursome,the group should police each other and make sure everyone is posting consistently. Having said that, I agree that there are weaknesses in the system that could be taken advantage of without being considered a cheater or sandbagger. If for example you’re goal is to win tournaments, then you should only play difficult courses and from the tips. I agree with the comments made by several others that the difficult golf courses don’t get the proper respect they deserve in the course rating and slopes they are given relative to the easiser courses. For example,as a kid I used to caddie at a course in Ridgefield Connecitut(Silver Spring Country Club), which is a nice track, but not particularly difficult when compared to someplace like the nearby Stanwich club. I remember during the member/guest tournaments that having someone from Stanwich on your team boosted your chances of winning. This was because a 15 handicapper at Stanwich was more like a 12 (or better) anywhere else because of how difficult Stanwich is. Stanwich is rated 76.0/144 while Silver Spring is 72.2/136, yet I would say that Stanwich plays at least 7 strokes harder than does Silver Spring. So back to my main point which is if you want to win tournaments play difficult courses and you’re handicap will be artificially higher than someone playing those muni courses where you can spray the ball without consequence or those score killing penalty strokes.
July 10th, 2010 at 2:29 pmIf you suspect someone of padding their scores for a higher net, have someone monitor them and if they don’t straighten up, have the club put a restricted hold on their index so it can not be artificially padded before a big tourney.
July 10th, 2010 at 5:24 pmI am one of those people who frequently “come up to the challenge” in a tournament. I play a lot of different courses, and consequently have some very high scores for courses that are difficult and that I only get to play once. On the other hand, I have low combined nine hole scores that seem to bring my handicap back into normal range. I get truly frustrated when I hear grumbling about how I should not be allowed to win when I shoot a lights out score because I have a high handicap. Some people think I do not deserve to win, even though I played totally “in the zone” that day. Stop grumbling about me and play better golf yourself.
Good points,your club must want to enforce accurate posting. Our private club does not require scorecards,just verbal scores are common. How does one address this, don’t play in tournaments
July 10th, 2010 at 8:46 pmI stopped playing tournaments because of the handicap abusers. The only solution I see is to weight tournament scores very heavily. For example, include all tournament scores from the previous 12 months in the index calculation, then “backfill” with the best posted rounds out of the latest 20 to arrive at the 10 rounds to be used for calculation. Or, take the past three tournament rounds, double their weight, and fill in with the four best recorded rounds out of the last 20. Since sandbagging in tournament is the problem, tournament scores should have a greater effect on index. If your “buddy” cheats in casual rounds, don’t play him for money.
July 11th, 2010 at 9:40 amI think Kelly (3 posts up) brings up an interesting point. I am a 12 GHIN but could easily drive that up to a 14 or 15 by going to the tips ( or play very difficult courses) and playing 20 rounds,and playing to my best, then go back and compete from the white tees in tournaments. I have done absolutely nothing wrong, just worked the system to my advantage.
July 11th, 2010 at 10:22 amI agree with a previous post that suggested that the posting system REQUIRE a confirmation score. So whoever I’m playing with has to confirm the score posted. Those confirmed scores are the ONLY scores used to determine a handicap – all other scores are merely a guide to show the golfer how they’re doing. Anything NOT confirmed is not considered adequate in determining handicap.
July 11th, 2010 at 4:31 pm1. Having scores confirmed by a playing partner doesn’t bode well for the individual golfer. Not a fan of that idea.
2. Eliminating online posting is DEFINITELY not the answer. I do 100% of my posting online for convenience, especially since I play many different courses (who has time to find the posting machine after every round?).
The best suggestion I’ve heard is to weight T-scores more heavily.
In the end, however, golf is a game of integrity and self-enforcement of the rules. I don’t see a tweak to the ‘system’ doing much for sandbaggers or others that want to cheat the system. Besides, who wants a higher handicap just to win a tournament now and again?
July 11th, 2010 at 9:57 pmA couple thoughts from an Associate Club President.
July 12th, 2010 at 7:49 amI first want to congratulate NCGA for reducing this problem over the past few years. I have been fortunate to play in a 4 or 5 Associate Club Championship events in the last 10 years. The last few have been very competitive and as far as I could tell very fair. The first event I played in was a disgrace. There was a club that entered a group of 4 15+ handicappers that all managed to play below par for both days beating the second place team by 15 strokes. Every participant and NCGA official knew they had taken us all for a ride and felt violated. I heard they were not allowed to send a team the next year.
I like the idea of weighting “T” scores differently than standard entries. I also believe eliminating online posting is a mistake. If a player wants to post an incorrect score it can just as easily be done at the course computer or at home.
What was it Hardy said in Bagger Vance? “It’s the only game you can call a penalty on yourself. If you are honest, which most people are.”
Our problem is that a few people are not. Changeing a system that works pretty well for a few that have little or no integrity seems like a big project. The problem is that those that want to “cheat” will figure out a way to massgae their index no matter what system is implemented.
lets just call it what it really is cheating!
July 12th, 2010 at 12:10 pmOK I have a question for someone.I am on the handicap commity in our club ( They call me the rules natzi) So I heard that even the club president does not play completly by the rules and I have tryed to have meeting with him and try to stop the sandbaging in our club. And I thought that if I was part of the commity that I should be involved in all meeting as in picking courses to play , The tee’s we will be playiny from, ETC.
July 12th, 2010 at 12:54 pmWhat do I do to convince the pres. of our club that he is not helping these problems????( When he himself does not play by the rules.) And that everyone in the club should have a say…
This sounds like he started this club just so his friends could get out a play more golf but needed more players to have an official club. What do I do???
Darren – Each NCGA club should have a member who has undergone handicap certification, the comprehensive education program offered by the NCGA Handicap Department. I would work with the member of your club that is certified to try and rectify your problem. Thanks,
July 12th, 2010 at 1:24 pmOnly the club’s tournament scores should be taken into consideration to determine the player’s/member’s GHIN INDEX and only the club’s tournament director or his designated representative should be able to post such scores.
July 12th, 2010 at 6:22 pmThe course rating system is a joke. 1) Take your average hacker and make him play from the tips and he’ll shoot a 92 instead of an 82, yet there is only a 2 or 3 stroke difference according to the rating system. 2) Any player who plays the majority of his rounds on the same municipal course is going to to be a 5 or 6 shot dog to any other player who plays a variety or courses. After you have played the same course 200 times, it’s not golf any more, it’s muscle memory and your handicap is artificially low. 3) Your average player is not usually a seasoned athlete. Someone who has a background in competitive sports (college or professional) knows how to bring their game face. When you played in front of 60 thousand hostile fans…a local ncga tournament isn’t really going to make your knees shake. Some people have just learned to play better under pressure. Get use to it.
July 12th, 2010 at 8:35 pmDavid – Remember that the course rating predicts what the scratch golfer will shoot, not the “average hacker” so your analogy doesn’t apply. The 2-3 stroke difference will be felt by the scratch golfer. The hacker’s difference in scoring from course to course and from tee to tee is what forms a slope rating.
July 12th, 2010 at 8:42 pmScott I have to disagree. I too think the course handicap system is flawed. If you are a scratch golfer and play the whites at Diablo Creek you should shoot .05 under par and if you are a scratch golfer and play the golds at Pebble you should shoot .6 over. I find it hard to believe that there is only 1 stroke difference between those two course from those tees. I will take the scratch golfer from Pebble every time.
July 13th, 2010 at 5:53 amSandbagging is a problem that has always been a part of golf and will continue to be a problem. I think one solution would be a link where sandbaggers can be reported so that the handicap chairman or the NCGA can take a look at the players scores and determine if a problem exists. If enough people continue to report sandbagging incidents with a player then that persons handicap can be adjusted.
Unfortunately the problem will never go away as their is always someone willing to cheat just to say they “won” (if you cheat, do you really win). As a single digit handicapper I have quit playing in any handicapped event unless it is for charity or just a fun tourny. I realize I have no chance to win as I would have to shoot a 67 or 68 to have a chance. Haven’t shot those numbers in 20 years. So I will continue to play with the guys I know are legit and just enjoy that friendly competition.
July 13th, 2010 at 7:54 amScott,
July 13th, 2010 at 4:57 pmThere a lot of good suggestions going on here. I would love it if the USGA allowed an association to publish a Tournament Handicap along with the regular handicap. But to make this effective the NCGA must do a better job of defining what a Tournament is. The current rules are being interpreted differently by many clubs and some are labeling so many of the their events as ‘T’ that they reduce the effectiveness of the ‘T’ restriction algorithm. Without a clear association-wide definition of a ‘T’ score, any Tournament Handicap will not be useful in tournaments involving more than a single club.
I noticed a player who seemed to repeatedly qualify for and medal in NCGA senior NET and NET Pub links events. Bargain rounds at Spyglass will bring out Sandbaggers!
I checked his handicap and saw scores posted from 2005. Only two or three scores were posted for each year. That means he either does not play except when qualifying and the competing or he does not post his scores. Considering he quite often medals I suspect the latter. I notified both the NCGA but he is still competing.
If you use only tournament scores his handicap is legit since that is all that is posted but they date back 5 years?
I would like to see the NCGA require for all NET events (club, city, and NGCA events) a competitor has an established recent history of say 5 tournaments in the past two years. The recent tournament scores can be used for a tournament handicap. Yes, for the first 5 or so events maybe players are not eligible for prizes because they haven’t yet built up their history.
July 13th, 2010 at 6:20 pmUse a tournament handicap for all NCGA events, including team play. Calculate the T handicap based on the last 6 T scores looking back 2 or 3 yrs. If a player doesn’t have 6 T-scores in the last 3 yrs., use their low index for the last 12 months until they accumulate at least 6 T scores. Using tournament scores will not completely eliminate bagging, but at least it will “cost” the bagger more to obtain a low tournament handicap. In general the T-handicap will probably be higher, but it will be calculated based on scores under tournament pressure and most likely the golfer is giving maximum effort throughout the round. This will stop the same players and teams from overachieving in net tournaments and matches.
In Team play, bagging is ruining the spirit of competition. If you win, you’re a bagger. If you lose, you got bagged. The guys that get bagged, get sick of it and become baggers. Even if you’re not bagging and you win a net event, they call you a bagger.
You can police bagging to a degree, but can you definitively determine that a guy missed a putt on purpose or intentionally pumped a ball OB when it didn’t count. It’s impossible to prove.
Let’s try using T-cap for a year and see how it works. If it doesn’t work, we can always go back.
July 14th, 2010 at 1:51 pmAll great suggestions and opinions on this topic. We all have experienced baggers. They should be outed accordingly. When someone wins a net competition by 2 statistically impossible consecutive net 59′s, instead of a glowing tournament recap, the recap should insinuate the impossibility of such an achievement. However, the majority of competitors and those running the tournaments have too much class to lower themselves to do this.
When I do tournaments, I pull up everyone in my flight. I look at revision scores, recent scores and the bar graph. Everyone has this opportunity to do this review. Yes, it takes some time, but the information is there for all of us to see. I want to know who is suspect and be aware. Game on. I’m just amazed how some people, who are not elderly, physically impaired, competes regularly, are happy to have a course handicap year after year of 27+. It’s no fun to go out and shoot 100 every time you play just to win a medal by shooting a 95. Why bother to play if improving isn’t a goal? If one is competing, it would be presumed that one would want to constantly improve to see how far they can go.
I’d love to see what the baggers would post here and see what they say to justify their behavior. Unfortunately, we are all preaching to the choir here.
July 14th, 2010 at 9:00 pmAny member whom is registering a handicap should have to play with other members and have them keep your score!!!
July 16th, 2010 at 4:20 pmNCGA please pay attention to these posts. The one most common denominator here is the FLAWED Equitable Stroke Control (ESC). Read what so many in here say about this. In an 18 hole round of golf a 10 handicap can adjust his score 18 strokes higher than a 9 handicap. This is insane. Under this FLAWED system many players, once they get to a ten or more handicap, never get back under ten because they can post 18 shots more than a 9 handicap. Go back to the system we used to have…maximum double bogey for 0-18 handicaps. This won’t solve the problem of people cheating but it will level the playing field to those of us who play the game with honor and integrity.
July 29th, 2010 at 4:16 pmOne more thing….You have basically opened the floodgates for the cheaters by allowing anyone with a 10 or higher handicap to post 18 more strokes per round than a 9 handicap.
July 29th, 2010 at 4:25 pmWhether or not the “floodgates” are open for cheaters or not with the current ESC won’t do squat to solve the issue. In theory, the system washes out the abberation rounds by only using 10 of the last 20.
The cheaters will find a way, and there are simply too many. I HATE playing in that environment, but my game has gotten so bad, I can’t play at the higher levels where I found samdbagging was not as rampant, but still existed.
I was in a club with 400 members for years, and it was much cleaner handicap wise than any smaller club I have been in, for the simple reason we communicated openly about it, and almost all of the club had character. We caught some redhanded (posting scores at another course when they hadn’t played etc.) and could only suspend them, as the county did not want any potential legal issues – the club was later separated from the county so we could bar such members etc.
The club pros were also active members of our mens club, and it helped. If the hdcp. chairman felt there were some unusual postings by the prime suspects, they could at least see if they played that day – before computer posting obviously. Today it would be more handy to check if someone that played didn’t post a round perhaps. Unposted rounds are a huge issue, and the pros should be “pro-active” reminding members to post – political risk perhaps?
It stinks – but if the players don’t hold each other accountable, I don’t think there is any chance for anything else to work.
August 15th, 2010 at 12:31 pmBecause this is such a problem, it deters me from participating in just about all NCGA events. When I play for money, it is now only in a scratch game. Some of the lesser players in our group say its unfair to exclude them by not giving them strokes. However, I argue that they are always welcome and that playing scratch will improve their game. I grind from first shot to last knowing they all count. Im not going to bail out a peer that thinks he can get in my pocket without trying
October 13th, 2010 at 8:52 pmIn my dream world, here is how the problem would be solved. Only tournament or “qualified” rounds would count towards handicapping. Each member club would have a daily medal-play money game, requiring a modest entry fee (e.g. $20). Only rounds from these games (or from other tournaments) would be “qualified.” Sandbaggers would want to shoot well to make money and/or recoup their entry fee. They could not pad their cap by missing shots or putts, because of the medal-play format.
If players want to play a casual round or match with their buddies, they need not participate in the daily game. Of course, scores outside the qualification game would not count for handicap purposes.
The handicap committee should not listen to complaints from players about the entry fee. Sandbaggers usually have no problem ponying up several hundred dollars (plus parimutuel bets, etc.) to use their inflated handicaps to score large amounts of prize money. They shouldn’t be heard to complain over $20.
October 16th, 2010 at 7:03 pmT scores are the scores that should dictate a players handicap – low motivation in playing alone or with your wife or for fun fun fun.
So use T scores only from monthly medals at clubs or any open tournaments that golfers play in, then you will see honesty.
November 17th, 2010 at 3:53 pmcall me crazy but how about no golfer can count a 3 putt.
November 20th, 2010 at 1:52 pmjust like stroke equity u can never count a 3 putt towards your handicap. i see it every day 4 guys playing skins and the hole gets tied and all of a sudden the same bunch of guys start 3 putting.
its the best way to make your handicap go up. when you want it to.
so just like you cant take more than a double up to a 19 handicap. make it that you cant count 3 putts. ??
Cheaters will cheat. Can’t legislate good behavior. So don’t try too hard.
In this story, the first mistake the guy made was agreeing to play for money with someone they don’t know and trusting the handicap system–stupid, stupid. If you want to gamble, go to a casino.
Another way is to limit the bleeding to something under your control. Play for big stakes but only with no handicaps. Anyone getting Eagles gets $$$, Birdies $. AND anyone getting Triple bogeys or worse pays the others in the Group $. Alternatively, you can play “first on, first in” with no handicaps.
But I would prefer not to play for money–golf is best played as an outdoors solitaire game.
February 7th, 2011 at 12:54 pmAnd lets be fair.
Professional horse race handicappers look at past history of the horse as well as recent training results before putting their money on any horse (we poor slobs in the stands just take our best shot with the Daily Racing Form). How well do they do in handicapping??? About as well as NCGA does in handicapping us golfers.
It is NOT something amenable to strict probability and statistical controls so it actually IS possible for someone with a 30 handicap to “accidentally” have a great day and shoot 88. Probability and statistics ASSUMES equally random occurrences-and while many of our shots appear random (small joke), we really are applying a measure of skill so the results will “cluster” (that is, the results are NOT equally random) but assigning a true probability is about as easy as deciding which IPO is going to pay off big on the stock exchange. Take into account that someone might take a lesson or two and/or go to the range…folks actually can be “gooder” than you expect quite randomly. Some also play better than others in heat, some in cold, some with wind, some play better than their competition in rain…
SO, don’t lose sleep over making handicaps “better”–it is not possible and it is just a number (like your weight). What you CAN do to enjoy yourself more is play with folks you know and measure your game against the course and that day’s conditions and NOT against your fellow competitors.
February 8th, 2011 at 3:19 pmI am amused by the many solutions to “sand bagging”. I belong to a NorCal course where there are many sand baggers. I believe the only solution is to use only T scores for handicap purposes or your current handicap whichever is the lowest. This prevents the person who only pays in one tournament a year, and then improving and playing in another tournament with last year’s T score. Serious consideration should be given to the system being able to focus on a player who all of sudden starts shooting substantially lower scores for 3 or more rds and then entering a tournment with a higher handicap. Did he/she all of sudden improve or have they disclosed their true handicap. If all persons came into a tournament with correct handicaps then potentially if they shot their handicap then many of these tournaments should end with lots of ties, but as we all know they don’t. Finally, all best ball tournament scores should be fully posted and no pickups.
June 3rd, 2011 at 6:29 pmShouldn’t a person stay within 8-10 of their handicap? If you’re a 20 handicap and shoot a 75…what are the odds of that? The U.S. Open has that requirement, if you’re playing in a qualifier you have to stay within 10 strokes, above or below.
December 21st, 2011 at 5:25 pmWe just whitnessed a shameless adjusting of HCP via 17 Internet postings in april alone to get HCP from 9 HCP to 14.4 (for a guy who shot 77 and 80 at tough courses in fall 2011). This helped this guy to win 3 big back to back 2some events by large margin. Again, 17 bad scores posted for april 2012. Did I mention he is 30 year old 6 ’3 athlete player?
May 1st, 2012 at 11:12 amHow can it be reported to have these people banned from NCGA HCP for years? These are not NCGA event but these tournaments trust the NCGA HCP system.
We handled this at a club where I was a member by keeping a separate handicap for our events. For non-local events, it was frustrating to play against guys that were single digit indexes in our league but were playing to 15 on the GHIN – but at least when the club championship came around, everyone knew that the tournament would be fair. We had people coming from miles away to play in our league because they knew if they shot their handicap, they would win money.
If all local clubs did this, then you could make comparisons and nab the cheats.
November 19th, 2012 at 2:39 pmIf the NCGA has the “tools” to fight this problem then why is this question coming up again, more than two years after it was initially asked and after numerous suggestions. I HONESTLY DON’T THINK THE NCGA IS GOING TO DO ANYTHING ABOUT IT. This problem lies with each club. As a 4 handicap who is rarely affected by sandbaggers I will only stay with a club that has personally conquered this problem. IT SHOULDN’T BE TOO HARD FOR THE NCGA TO ADD AN ADDITIONAL ALGORITHM TO EVERYONE’S INDEX EACH MONTH REVEALING TWO HANDICAPS, ONE FOR REGULAR EVERYDAY PLAYING AND ONE FOR TOURNAMENTS. Let’s see NCGA, hire one of those programmers from nearby Silicon Valley to roll by the headquarters for a day and redo the algorithms. Not hard!!
November 19th, 2012 at 5:52 pmRobert – It’s not about programming or our desire to change the system. We use the USGA Handicap System which advocates one index. Clubs are free to use a tournament handicap if they wish – the NCGA has a Net Score Database it uses for its events. Thanks for the comment.
November 19th, 2012 at 5:56 pmSandbagging is only a problem for events involving financial compensation ( MONEY! or the equivalent). Simple solution. Only tournament scores can count towards your INDEX. In your first tournament you can not win money but you can pay an entry fee to establish your index. You may sand bag at first but shortly your Index will catch up with you and all is good.
November 21st, 2012 at 11:18 amIts a gentlemans game and gentleman dont cheat!Play and bet with the guys you trust and leave the baggers out.We all know who they are.Dont play in handicap events because there arent alot of gentleman.UKE
November 21st, 2012 at 5:34 pmSandbagging will never be eliminated until all competitive tournaments are flighted by handicap, but played at scratch. In theory, golfers who play the best should be rewarded with the victory. In net events, however, the winner is generally the golfer who plays the best with the highest handicap regardless of how much cheating went into the establishment and/or maintenance of the handicap. Most of us know who these guys are, and how they do it. It is so bad, that in most major SGC and/or NCGA tournaments, the winners don’t even stick around for the award presentation. Net results are not even posted in the local papers anymore. The complaints will come that play at scratch is not fair, but tournament credibility will be re-established.
November 22nd, 2012 at 12:32 amIt is simple. Tournament scores should be the only scores that count for your handicap. These guys are sandbagging all the time and are winning events but dont have the guts to stick around recieve their trophy which means that they know they are being unfair. It is as simple as that, for events you use your tournament handicap and when you are back at your home club playing your group, sandbag all you want it only makes enemies.
November 22nd, 2012 at 8:23 amI have personally seen sandbagging issues cleaned up and tournament participation increase at 3 clubs once mothly tournaments got posted as “T” scores, and your tournament index was the lower of the average of your 2 lower tournament scores, or your Index. Winners became more evenly distributed, winning scores were “believable” and all players were extremely supportive. It takes some extra work to do the math, and hopefully someday the USGA will have that calculation performed automatically, but it is well worth th effort. I think the key is to make sure monthly torunaments that result in postable rounds are entered as T scores. And please remove the ability for a player to post a T score. That should be reserved for the Handicap Committee or Pro Staff.
November 23rd, 2012 at 6:48 pmLook …
November 24th, 2012 at 9:50 amHCP are for lesser players… If you need your HCP or are worried about others HCP…
keep playing but the only score that matters is the gross score…
Play straight up or go bowling…
We’ve initiated a practice were key tournaments are played at the lower of the payer’s Low Index over the past 12 months, or a Tournament Index (TI) over the past 14 months. The TI is calculated in the same way as a normal index, but using only T scores. The rationale is simple. For some, a ‘T’ index is a truer indication of a player’s potential than an LI. As Bobby Jones said: “There are two kinds of golf: Tournament Golf and regular golf. They are not the same.” (World Golf Hall of Fame).
November 24th, 2012 at 1:01 pmRegarding the ‘tools’. Don’t blame the NCGA for a lack of them. Indexes come from USGA/GHIN. The publish a “Low Index”. There’s NO REASON the USGA/GHIN can’t publish a Tournament Index as well. They have the tools to do it.
November 24th, 2012 at 1:06 pmOur handicap chairman maintains a tournament handicap for each member in addition to the NCGA index. We use the lower of the two for tournament play. We figure the tournament handicaps the same way the NCGA does, using the best 10 of the last 20 tournament scores. A flaw in this system is that some people don’t play enough tournaments and so their last 20 tournament scores may go back a couple years. This system has worked very well for us and we rarley have to deal with a bagger winning too much. There is no perfect system, we can just do our best and use peer review. Nobody likes to ‘rat out’ another guy but we need to protect the field. As for the course rating and ESC systems, their fine, leave them alone.
November 25th, 2012 at 5:49 pmI post my scores at the golf course immediately after each round. Most of these scores are not being registered. My buddies and I discovered this when my index was not changing. I complained many times to NCGA with only intermittent corrections. NCGA has lost interest in my case and is ignoring my problem. My buddies witness every posting after every round to deflect thoughts of sandbagging. I have tried posting at home but that too is unreliable. My buddies and I have taken to calculating my index independently. NCGA has failed to suggest any alternatives and cannot explain to me why I seem to be the only one having this problem.
January 28th, 2013 at 2:39 pmLouie, thank you for your comment. I see that several Away scores have made it into your record this month alone along with one internet score. It would appear that the system is working properly for you. Send me an email ( jcowan@ncga.org ) with specific examples where a score you posted did not make it to your record. Thanks again – Jim Cowan, Director of Course Rating and Handicapping
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